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1/15/2018

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Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?
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ayances
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:56 am
Post subject: Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?
SEFI Member
Dear Members,
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 10
To design a beam with the results from staad results, we design the support reinforcement
considering the nodal moment given by staad at that support. But one of my client wants me to
consider the moment at support face. That means if the column dimension is Cx then consider the
moment at Cx distance from support node.
Certainly the moment is much lower there and reinf. requiremnt is much less. But as we extend
the beam reinf. in column with proper bond length i think they act monolithically and the moment
at the node connecting column and beam should be considered.
Waiting for your valued comment and any reference in this regard.
Regards,
Ayan
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suresh_sharma
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:04 am
Post subject:
Technically speaking your client is correct.
I append below an extract from a technical literature.
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 783
As we know, the beams and columns of our actual structure are represented by lines in the
computer model. In the actual structure, a beam spans a distance which is the clear span
between the faces of columns. But in the computer model, the line for the beam spans
between the centerlines of the column. The half-depth portion of either column is
considerably stiffer than the beam itself from the standpoint of bending. To take advantage
of this additional stiffness, we may declare that the start and end faces of the beam are
offset from the node by a distance equal to the half-column-depths.
As I understand etabs considers design moment at Cx/4 from the centre of column towards the
face of support.
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abhio
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:38 am
Post subject:
Your client is quite right, but actually carrying out such a design would be quite tedious as each
beam element would have to assigned offsets equal to half the width of the column.
Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 432
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1/15/2018

www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?

thirumalaichettiar Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:55 pm Post subject: Silver Sponsor Kindly refer to
thirumalaichettiar
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:55 pm
Post subject:
Silver Sponsor
Kindly refer to IS code 456:2000 clauses. ALso refer the book by Devas Menon.
T.Rangarajan.
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 3459
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santhosh reddy.s
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:57 am
Post subject: Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?
SEFI Regulars
Dear Er. ayan.
Joined: 09 May 2011
Posts: 24
Location: Bangalore
IS code clearly says that crtical section for the moment is at face of the support and for shear is at
"d" from the face of the support.Normally in staad wat we do is if the columns are of smaller
section modulus we go for the nodal moment, as you take for the convinience and it hardly
overestimates the design moments but if the supports are of higher section modulus say column of
size 800x800 we've to take the moment at face of the support otherwise design will be very
uneconomical.
even torsion also can be taken at face of the support because at beam column junction the'll be
infinite stiffness to take care of moments,shear and torsion whatever the value software shows.
Ref 22.6 of IS456-2000 for detailed explanation.
Comments from experts on the above are welcomed.
Regards,
santhosh reddy
AE(C),KPCL
BANGALORE
On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 8:26 AM, ayances <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
Dear Members,
To design a beam with the results from staad results, we design the support reinforcement
considering the nodal moment given by staad at that support. But one of my client wants me to
consider the moment at support face. That means if the column dimension is Cx then consider
the moment at Cx distance from support node.
Certainly the moment is much lower there and reinf. requiremnt is much less. But as we extend
the beam reinf. in column with proper bond length i think they act monolithically and the
moment at the node connecting column and beam should be considered.
Waiting for your valued comment and any reference in this regard.
Regards,
Ayan
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vikram.jeet
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:45 am
Post subject: Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?
General Sponsor
As per IS 456 clause 22.6.1 for monolithic construction, moments computed at
face of supports shall be used in design of members at those sections
best wishes
vikramjeet
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 2212
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1/15/2018

www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?

 

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Dr. N. Subramanian

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:37 pm

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:37 pm

Post subject: Re: Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?

Dr. N. Subramanian Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Consider which support

General Sponsor

Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 5211 Location: Gaithersburg, MD, U.S.A.

Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 5211 Location: Gaithersburg, MD, U.S.A.

Hi All,

As rightly pointed out by Er Vikramjeet, Er Rangarajan, and others, in monolithic construction, we need to consider the BM at the face of the support only and SF at a distance d from the face of support, otherwise it will be uneconomical.

We wrote a separate Beam design program, which will input the member end forces from the analysis program and give values of BM, SF etc at different sections, so that we can design the reinforcements at different sections. Hence, if the analysis program does not give such values, the designer has to write his own program.

Best wishes

 

NS

 

vikram.jeet wrote:

 

As per IS 456 clause 22.6.1 for monolithic construction, moments computed at face of supports shall be used in design of members at those sections

   

best wishes

 

vikramjeet

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rajeevrai

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:37 pm

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:37 pm

Post subject: Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?

rajeevrai Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject: Consider which support Moment From STAAD

Bronze Sponsor

Dear Ayan,You have got the correct advice that it is the bending moment at face

Dear Ayan,You have got the correct advice that it is the bending moment at face of the column that is to be considered.I hope there must be some rigid joint command in STAAD. If it is there, then make all beam-column joints as rigid. This will not give moments at the face of the column, it will also hange the stiffness of your model which is a way better than analysing the frame without rigid joints.Rajeev Regards,Rajeev RaiSent from my BlackBerry® smartphoneFrom: "ayances" <forum@sefindia.org> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 08:26:15 +0530 To: <general@sefindia.org> ReplyTo: general@sefindia.org Subject: [SEFI] Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?

Subject: [SEFI] Consider which support Moment From STAAD ? Joined: 10 Apr 2010 Posts: 24 Location:

Joined: 10 Apr 2010 Posts: 24 Location: Ghaziabd, (U.P.)

Dear Members, To design a beam with the results from staad results, we design the support reinforcement considering the nodal moment given by staad at that support. But one of my client wants me to consider the moment at support face. That means if the column dimension is Cx then consider the moment at Cx distance from support node. Certainly the moment is much lower there and reinf. requiremnt is much less. But as we extend the beam reinf. in column with proper bond length i think they act monolithically and the moment at the node connecting column and beam should be considered. Waiting for your valued comment and any reference in this regard. Regards, Ayan

 

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olavocarvalho

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:36 pm

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:36 pm

Post subject: Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?

olavocarvalho Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:36 pm Post subject: Consider which support Moment From STAAD

General Sponsor

General Sponsor Joined: 08 Sep 2008 Posts: 39

Joined: 08 Sep 2008 Posts: 39

 

Hi Ayan,

we assume a knife edge while we analyse a structure.

 

We provide a wide column to support our beams. We could definitely carry out a redistribution of moments due to size of column and reorganize the moments. Or we could also check out the moment at the face of column and adjust the mid-span moment which would be more rationale.

 

comments from Eng Vikramjeet or Eng Umesh would be highly sought out.

1/15/2018

www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?

Regards Olavo On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 8:26 AM, ayances <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote: Quote:
Regards
Olavo
On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 8:26 AM, ayances <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
Dear Members,
To design a beam with the results from staad results, we design the support reinforcement
considering the nodal moment given by staad at that support. But one of my client wants me to
consider the moment at support face. That means if the column dimension is Cx then consider
the moment at Cx distance from support node.
Certainly the moment is much lower there and reinf. requiremnt is much less. But as we extend
the beam reinf. in column with proper bond length i think they act monolithically and the
moment at the node connecting column and beam should be considered.
Waiting for your valued comment and any reference in this regard.
Regards,
Ayan
Posted via Email
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Dr. N. Subramanian
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?
General Sponsor
Dear Er Olavo
You wrote "we could also check out the moment at the face of column
and adjust the mid-span moment which would be more rationale" Why we should adjust the
mid-span moment?!
Best wishes
NS
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 5211
Location: Gaithersburg, MD,
U.S.A.
olavocarvalho wrote:
Hi Ayan,
we assume a knife edge while we analyse a structure.
We provide a wide column to support our beams.
We could definitely carry out a redistribution of moments due to
size of column and reorganize the moments.
Or we could also check out the moment at the face of column
and adjust the mid-span moment which would be more rationale.
comments from Eng Vikramjeet or Eng Umesh would be highly
sought out.
Regards
Olavo
On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 8:26 AM, ayances <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)>
wrote:
Quote:
Dear Members,
To design a beam with the results from staad results, we design the support
reinforcement considering the nodal moment given by staad at that support. But
one of my client wants me to consider the moment at support face. That means if
the column dimension is Cx then consider the moment at Cx distance from support
node.
Certainly the moment is much lower there and reinf. requiremnt is much less. But
as we extend the beam reinf. in column with proper bond length i think they act
monolithically and the moment at the node connecting column and beam should be
considered.
Waiting for your valued comment and any reference in this regard.
Regards,
Ayan

1/15/2018

www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?

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