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Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?


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ayances Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:56 am Post subject: Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?
SEFI Member

Dear Members,
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 10 To design a beam with the results from staad results, we design the support reinforcement
considering the nodal moment given by staad at that support. But one of my client wants me to
consider the moment at support face. That means if the column dimension is Cx then consider the
moment at Cx distance from support node.
Certainly the moment is much lower there and reinf. requiremnt is much less. But as we extend
the beam reinf. in column with proper bond length i think they act monolithically and the moment
at the node connecting column and beam should be considered.

Waiting for your valued comment and any reference in this regard.

Regards,

Ayan

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suresh_sharma Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:04 am Post subject:


...

Technically speaking your client is correct.


Joined: 23 Mar 2011 I append below an extract from a technical literature.
Posts: 783

As we know, the beams and columns of our actual structure are represented by lines in the
computer model. In the actual structure, a beam spans a distance which is the clear span
between the faces of columns. But in the computer model, the line for the beam spans
between the centerlines of the column. The half-depth portion of either column is
considerably stiffer than the beam itself from the standpoint of bending. To take advantage
of this additional stiffness, we may declare that the start and end faces of the beam are
offset from the node by a distance equal to the half-column-depths.

As I understand etabs considers design moment at Cx/4 from the centre of column towards the
face of support.

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abhio Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:38 am Post subject:


...

Your client is quite right, but actually carrying out such a design would be quite tedious as each
Joined: 08 Mar 2010 beam element would have to assigned offsets equal to half the width of the column.
Posts: 432

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1/15/2018 www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?
thirumalaichettiar Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:55 pm Post subject:
Silver Sponsor

Kindly refer to IS code 456:2000 clauses. ALso refer the book by Devas Menon.

T.Rangarajan.

Joined: 26 Jan 2003


Posts: 3459

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santhosh reddy.s Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:57 am Post subject: Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?
SEFI Regulars

Dear Er. ayan.

IS code clearly says that crtical section for the moment is at face of the support and for shear is at
"d" from the face of the support.Normally in staad wat we do is if the columns are of smaller
section modulus we go for the nodal moment, as you take for the convinience and it hardly
Joined: 09 May 2011 overestimates the design moments but if the supports are of higher section modulus say column of
Posts: 24 size 800x800 we've to take the moment at face of the support otherwise design will be very
Location: Bangalore
uneconomical.
even torsion also can be taken at face of the support because at beam column junction the'll be
infinite stiffness to take care of moments,shear and torsion whatever the value software shows.
Ref 22.6 of IS456-2000 for detailed explanation.
Comments from experts on the above are welcomed.

Regards,
santhosh reddy
AE(C),KPCL
BANGALORE

On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 8:26 AM, ayances <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
Dear Members,

To design a beam with the results from staad results, we design the support reinforcement
considering the nodal moment given by staad at that support. But one of my client wants me to
consider the moment at support face. That means if the column dimension is Cx then consider
the moment at Cx distance from support node.
Certainly the moment is much lower there and reinf. requiremnt is much less. But as we extend
the beam reinf. in column with proper bond length i think they act monolithically and the
moment at the node connecting column and beam should be considered.

Waiting for your valued comment and any reference in this regard.

Regards,

Ayan

Posted via Email

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vikram.jeet Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:45 am Post subject: Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?
General Sponsor

As per IS 456 clause 22.6.1 for monolithic construction, moments computed at


face of supports shall be used in design of members at those sections

best wishes

Joined: 26 Jan 2003 vikramjeet


Posts: 2212 --

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1/15/2018 www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?

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Dr. N. Subramanian Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?
General Sponsor

Hi All,

As rightly pointed out by Er Vikramjeet, Er Rangarajan, and others, in monolithic construction, we


need to consider the BM at the face of the support only and SF at a distance d from the face of
support, otherwise it will be uneconomical.

We wrote a separate Beam design program, which will input the member end forces from the
analysis program and give values of BM, SF etc at different sections, so that we can design the
reinforcements at different sections. Hence, if the analysis program does not give such values, the
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 designer has to write his own program.
Posts: 5211
Location: Gaithersburg, MD,
U.S.A. Best wishes
NS
vikram.jeet wrote:
As per IS 456 clause 22.6.1 for monolithic construction, moments computed at
face of supports shall be used in design of members at those sections

best wishes

vikramjeet
--

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rajeevrai Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject: Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?
Bronze Sponsor

Dear Ayan,You have got the correct advice that it is the bending moment at face of the column that
is to be considered.I hope there must be some rigid joint command in STAAD. If it is there, then
make all beam-column joints as rigid. This will not give moments at the face of the column, it will
also hange the stiffness of your model which is a way better than analysing the frame without rigid
joints.Rajeev
Regards,Rajeev RaiSent from my BlackBerry® smartphoneFrom: "ayances" <forum@sefindia.org>
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 08:26:15 +0530
To: <general@sefindia.org>
ReplyTo: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?
Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 24
Location: Ghaziabd, (U.P.) Dear Members, To design a beam with the results from staad results, we design the support
reinforcement considering the nodal moment given by staad at that support. But one of my client
wants me to consider the moment at support face. That means if the column dimension is Cx then
consider the moment at Cx distance from support node. Certainly the moment is much lower there
and reinf. requiremnt is much less. But as we extend the beam reinf. in column with proper bond
length i think they act monolithically and the moment at the node connecting column and beam
should be considered. Waiting for your valued comment and any reference in this
regard. Regards, Ayan
--

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olavocarvalho Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:36 pm Post subject: Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?
General Sponsor

Hi Ayan, we assume a knife edge while we analyse a structure.


We provide a wide column to support our beams.
We could definitely carry out a redistribution of moments due to
size of column and reorganize the moments.
Or we could also check out the moment at the face of column
Joined: 08 Sep 2008 and adjust the mid-span moment which would be more rationale.
Posts: 39

comments from Eng Vikramjeet or Eng Umesh would be highly


sought out.

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1/15/2018 www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?

Regards
Olavo

On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 8:26 AM, ayances <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
Dear Members,

To design a beam with the results from staad results, we design the support reinforcement
considering the nodal moment given by staad at that support. But one of my client wants me to
consider the moment at support face. That means if the column dimension is Cx then consider
the moment at Cx distance from support node.
Certainly the moment is much lower there and reinf. requiremnt is much less. But as we extend
the beam reinf. in column with proper bond length i think they act monolithically and the
moment at the node connecting column and beam should be considered.

Waiting for your valued comment and any reference in this regard.

Regards,

Ayan

Posted via Email

Back to top

Dr. N. Subramanian Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?
General Sponsor

Dear Er Olavo
You wrote "we could also check out the moment at the face of column
and adjust the mid-span moment which would be more rationale" Why we should adjust the
mid-span moment?!

Best wishes
NS

Joined: 21 Feb 2008 olavocarvalho wrote:


Posts: 5211
Location: Gaithersburg, MD, Hi Ayan, we assume a knife edge while we analyse a structure.
U.S.A. We provide a wide column to support our beams.
We could definitely carry out a redistribution of moments due to
size of column and reorganize the moments.
Or we could also check out the moment at the face of column
and adjust the mid-span moment which would be more rationale.

comments from Eng Vikramjeet or Eng Umesh would be highly


sought out.

Regards
Olavo

On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 8:26 AM, ayances <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)>


wrote:
Quote:
Dear Members,

To design a beam with the results from staad results, we design the support
reinforcement considering the nodal moment given by staad at that support. But
one of my client wants me to consider the moment at support face. That means if
the column dimension is Cx then consider the moment at Cx distance from support
node.
Certainly the moment is much lower there and reinf. requiremnt is much less. But
as we extend the beam reinf. in column with proper bond length i think they act
monolithically and the moment at the node connecting column and beam should be
considered.

Waiting for your valued comment and any reference in this regard.

Regards,

Ayan

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1/15/2018 www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Consider which support Moment From STAAD ?

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