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1 question.
2 MR. CELLI: Just object to the
3 question.
4 A May I expand on my answer?
5 HEARING OFFICER: You may give your
6 answer.
7 MR. CELLI: You will have a lawyer
8 who will ask questions.
9 A My answer is this. For the chair of the
10 legislature or any particular member of the
11 legislature to be involved in disciplinary action
12 is highly unusual. It's normally handled through
13 the county administrator and the department of
14 personnel. So the answer is I'm not aware of,
15 I'm aware of what progressive discipline is, but
16 is it something that the legislature normally
17 does, no.
18 Q I'm asking a simple question, Mr. Lane.
19 Isn't it true that it is the policy of Tompkins
20 County to give an employee progressive discipline
21 before charges are proffered, yes or no?
22 A I believe it is.
23 Q And you know that progressive discipline
24 means giving somebody a warning before the
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 310
1 evidence.
2 MR. CELLI: Thank you.
3 Q If you turn to page four at the bottom of
4 the page, there is a section called counselling,
5 right?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And one of the things that it says in the
8 second bullet point is to conduct routine verbal
9 counselling on a real time basis as the need
10 arises, that that is part of progressive
11 discipline, correct?
12 A Apparently if it's part of this document.
13 Q Well, you're not aware of anybody
14 counselling Ms. Baer about the issue of the WDIC
15 resignation, are you?
16 A No.
17 Q That never happened?
18 A I'm not aware of it happening.
19 Q And nobody ever sent a written
20 counselling memo, which is the second bullet
21 point on that page, to Ms. Baer on the issue of
22 her resignation from the WDIC, did they?
23 A Not to my knowledge.
24 Q No one ever developed a performance
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 313
1 no.
2 Q She complained to you about the fact that
3 she was driven off the commission, right?
4 A She did not complain to me. She informed
5 me.
6 Q She wasn't telling you because she was
7 celebrating that fact, right? She was telling
8 you because she was not happy about that fact; is
9 that fair?
10 A She told many of us.
11 Q When you say many of us, do you mean
12 legislators?
13 A Legislators.
14 Q She told Mr. Stein, right?
15 A I can't tell you that. I don't know.
16 Q Who were the legislators that she told
17 that she was not unhappy about being driven off
18 the commission?
19 A Certainly myself and the vice chair.
20 Q That's Mr. Klein?
21 A Jim Dennis.
22 Q Oh, it was Jim Dennis at the time. And
23 Miss Pryor told you that one of the people
24 responsible for driving her from her position as
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 318
1 legislature, right?
2 A I have.
3 Q And one of the things that you do as the
4 chair of the legislature is to understand what's
5 going on in county government, right?
6 A I do my best.
7 Q And that's politics and that's
8 government, you would agree?
9 A Yes.
10 Q And one of the things that you have to do
11 in your role as chair of the legislature is
12 figure out what happened if there was a dispute
13 or tensions on one of the many commissions or
14 boards that exist in the county, right?
15 A That's true.
16 Q And in fact in this case you took steps
17 to determine what occurred to cause Pat Pryor to
18 resign from the Human Rights Commission, right?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And one of the things that occurred was
21 that Ms. Baer and commissioners of color were
22 opposed to her leadership style, right?
23 A There was a dispute in the commission
24 over things as seemingly inconsequential as a
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 321
1 investigation, yes.
2 Q That was based on this letter of
3 complaint, right?
4 A I think this and I think there may have
5 been other communications.
6 Q What communications are those, sir?
7 A From Karen Baer.
8 HEARING OFFICER: I'm sorry. What
9 was the answer?
10 A From Karen Baer.
11 Q Can you describe those for us?
12 A I'm trying to think back. It may have
13 been this that came as an e-mail, but I received
14 an e-mail from her at the time.
15 Q And there came a time about March 2016
16 that Mr. Hooks issued a report of his
17 investigation of this complaint, right?
18 A Yes.
19 HEARING OFFICER: Are you referring
20 to the Hooks' report?
21 MR. CELLI: Yes, but I'm going to
22 mark something else right now.
23 (RESPONDENT EXHIBIT G WAS MARKED FOR
24 IDENTIFICATION.)
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 328
1 A Yes.
2 Q Were you concerned about it?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Did you think that her characterization
5 was unfair to Mr. Hooks and his investigation?
6 A I'm trying to remember the timing. I'm
7 not sure whether I had read the investigation at
8 that point.
9 Q Would it help you if I represented to you
10 that the investigation was issued on or about
11 March 15th, 2016?
12 A Yes, and I would have read it by then.
13 Q So with that characterization, did you
14 think Ms. Baer was being unfair of her
15 characterization of Mr. Hooks' investigation?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And you responded to that e-mail with the
18 e-mail on the top of this exhibit where you say,
19 "hi, Karen. I want to acknowledge receipt of
20 your e-mail. Dan and I will discuss your request
21 and I will reply when I'm able to do that,"
22 right?
23 A Yes.
24 Q That was the very next day you got back
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 330
1 to her, correct?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And the request that you were going to
4 discuss with Dan -- strike that. The Dan you're
5 referring there to is Dan Klein?
6 A Vice Chair Dan Klein, yes.
7 Q And the request that you and Mr. Klein
8 were going to discuss was Ms. Baer's request to
9 share with the legislators her concerns about the
10 flawed Hooks' process, correct?
11 A She was asking to meet, in my reading of
12 this, she was asking to meet with the full
13 legislature and that was discussed and we did not
14 think that was the proper way to proceed with a
15 personnel matter.
16 Q When you responded to Ms. Baer on the
17 29th, you didn't ask her what she meant by the
18 flawed process, did you?
19 A I think my response speaks for itself.
20 Q Because you didn't really want to hear
21 what she had to say about that since you had
22 already decided that she was being unfair to Mr.
23 Hooks?
24 A We had appointed an investigator to find
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 331
1 A Yes, I do.
2 Q And there are a number of paragraphs that
3 follow. Let's talk about each one of them. The
4 first a response that she gives is, quote, "the
5 investigator misled me about his role and the
6 process," do you see that?
7 A I do.
8 Q And you understood at this point that Ms.
9 Baer was complaining that she was, had been told
10 that her complaint of November 2015 would be
11 conciliated when in fact it was treated in an
12 adversarial way?
13 A I understand that she requested
14 conciliation on this. The charges of
15 discrimination, various kinds of discrimination
16 and retaliation were of such a serious matter and
17 taken so seriously by the legislature, our
18 response was to have it officially investigated.
19 Q Fair enough. And that was your decision
20 not to conciliate the complaint with Ms. Baer,
21 right?
22 A It was the decision of the legislature to
23 move forward with the retaining of an
24 investigator.
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 337
1 A No.
2 Q Never investigated that at all, right?
3 A The entire investigation was investigated
4 by the legislature.
5 HEARING OFFICER: The legislature
6 investigated the investigation?
7 A It did. When we had these allegations --
8 HEARING OFFICER: That's all I asked.
9 A -- about the person falling asleep,
10 Judge.
11 HEARING OFFICER: Excuse me. Is the
12 Hooks' report, where is that in the
13 evidence?
14 MR. CELLI: It's not.
15 HEARING OFFICER: Just for my
16 knowledge please what was the date of the
17 Hooks' report?
18 MR. CELLI: It was issued, I mean, we
19 can stipulate March 15th, 2016.
20 MR. MCCANN: It sounds right. I
21 would have to verify.
22 MS. SALZMAN: It might have been
23 March 13th. March 15th, you're right.
24 March 15th, 2016.
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 342
1 complaining about?
2 A That's what she said.
3 Q And there were in fact conversations
4 between Mr. Mareane and members of the
5 legislature about her complaint without her being
6 present; isn't that right?
7 A I don't know that.
8 Q Did you speak to Mr. Mareane? Strike
9 that. Are you denying that there were
10 conversations between members of the legislature
11 and Mr. Mareane -- let me finish my question --
12 about Ms. Baer's complaint during this period
13 without her being present?
14 A No. I said I don't know that there were.
15 Q You're not denying that that happened?
16 A I can't because I can't speak for all 14
17 members of the legislature.
18 Q You spoke to Mr. Mareane about the
19 complaint during this period, didn't you?
20 A I did not. I made it very clear that I
21 would not be speaking with him about these
22 issues.
23 Q I'm going to go to the next point that
24 Ms. Baer makes in her complaint, quote, "no
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 344
1 (RECESS TAKEN.)
2 (RESPONDENT'S EXHIBIT I WAS MARKED
3 FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
4 Q Okay. Mr. Lane, I've placed in front of
5 you a document that we've marked as Respondent's
6 Exhibit I. Do you recognize that document, sir?
7 A Yes. It's a letter from myself and vice
8 chair to Karen Baer.
9 Q And this is a letter that you sent on
10 September 12th, 2016, correct?
11 A It is.
12 Q And it's something that you and the vice
13 chair sent in your roles as chair and vice chair
14 of the legislature?
15 A That's correct.
16 MR. CELLI: We would offer this into
17 evidence.
18 MR. MCCANN: No objection.
19 Q And this is the legislature's response to
20 Ms. Baer's August 26th e-mail, correct, the one
21 we just went over?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And this letter does not respond to any
24 of those six points that we just talked about,
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 347
1 does it?
2 A It says that we recognize her making
3 additional allegations of bias and misconduct and
4 that we were asking for additional evidentiary
5 material from her about that.
6 Q Fair enough. It doesn't say anything
7 about her assertion that she was misled by Mr.
8 Hooks about his role in the investigation, right?
9 A No, it does not.
10 Q It doesn't say anything about her
11 statement that his investigation was
12 unprofessional and violated due process
13 protocols, does it?
14 A It does not.
15 Q Doesn't say a word about her conclusion
16 that the report was bias on its face and its
17 impact, does it?
18 A It does not.
19 Q Doesn't say anything about the
20 conversations that occurred between legislators
21 and Mr. Mareane about Ms. Baer's complaint during
22 its pendency, right?
23 A It doesn't say anything about that.
24 Q And it doesn't say anything about her
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 348
1 reviewed it.
2 Q I don't know what question you're
3 answering.
4 A Well, I'm trying to explain to you.
5 Q I'm asking a simple question. I'm not
6 looking for an explanation.
7 A You're saying we didn't, this letter
8 speaks for itself.
9 Q I'm trying to ask you questions and get
10 you to respond directly. This is cross
11 examination. I get to ask questions and you have
12 to answer them.
13 A But the letter speaks for itself, sir.
14 Q It wasn't enough for you that she claimed
15 to have been misled by the investigator, right?
16 A It was not, what she had provided to us
17 was not enough to substantiate the additional
18 allegations.
19 Q Let me ask it a different way. You
20 didn't write a letter to Ms. Baer afterwards
21 saying by the way we conducted a full
22 investigation of this, we interviewed Mr. Hooks.
23 We took testimony and we did all things that one
24 would do in the proper due process investigation
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 350
1 A No.
2 Q Did there ever come a time that Mr.
3 Mareane was unrecused, if you will, from the
4 Hooks' matter?
5 A No.
6 (RESPONDENT'S EXHIBIT J WAS MARKED
7 FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
8 MR. CELLI: Not to confuse matters
9 but I'd like to do this a certain way. I
10 placed before the witness Respondent's
11 Exhibit J and I'm going to ask some
12 questions about it. And, Mr. McCann, just
13 to be clear this I believe is part of
14 another exhibit.
15 MS. SALZMAN: Exhibit A.
16 MR. CELLI: Yeah, Exhibit A.
17 MR. MCCANN: Isn't it the same
18 exhibit?
19 MS. SALZMAN: No.
20 MR. CELLI: It's an individual copy
21 as opposed to a compendium of e-mails.
22 MS. SALZMAN: They did attach other
23 e-mails.
24 MR. CELLI: Oh, really.
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 357
1 in.
2 HEARING OFFICER: I'll accept it.
3 MR. CELLI: Yeah, we can go off the
4 record if you want.
5 HEARING OFFICER: No, that's all
6 okay. It's in.
7 Q Now when you testified about this
8 document in your direct, you mentioned or were
9 asked about the expression that, the phrase that
10 Ms. Baer used on the second page of the e-mail,
11 third full paragraph where she says, but I did
12 want to make you aware that there exists a
13 climate within this county workforce where
14 exclusion and retribution is able to take hold in
15 a very oppressive way. Do you see that?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And if I recall your testimony correctly,
18 you said that that statement bothered you because
19 it was not supported by statistical or other
20 evidence?
21 A Yes.
22 Q You've heard of the workforce climate
23 study in Tompkins County, haven't you?
24 A Yes.
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 361
1 A I was concerned.
2 Q But when Ms. Baer puts it in her e-mail
3 you dismissed it because it wasn't supported, is
4 that what you're telling us? Yes or no, sir?
5 A I'm saying that we had a series of
6 unsupported allegations from Ms. Baer.
7 Q I'm talking about this allegation that
8 there was a climate within the county workforce
9 where exclusion and retribution took hold in an
10 oppressive way. That is something that was
11 consistent with the findings of the workplace
12 study, don't you agree?
13 A Well, if it says oppressive way, I'm not
14 aware of that.
15 Q You're telling us that you were not
16 willing to accept Ms. Baer's statement about the
17 climate even though it was consistent with what
18 the workplace study showed?
19 A This had to do with an allegation against
20 another employee.
21 Q Where in that paragraph does it mention
22 another employee?
23 A That's what the series of complaints from
24 Ms. Baer had to do with.
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 363
1 an investigation?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Nobody from Tompkins County leadership,
4 be it the legislature or the county
5 administrator's office, picked up the phone after
6 this July 6th e-mail, sent an e-mail, dropped a
7 letter to say to Karen Baer this is important,
8 let's talk about it, did they?
9 A Not to my knowledge.
10 MR. CELLI: I'd like to mark as
11 Respondent's K.
12 (RESPONDENT'S EXHIBIT K WAS MARKED
13 FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
14 Q Which is a July 22nd letter.
15 A Yes.
16 Q Mr. Lane, this is a letter that you wrote
17 to Ms. Baer on or about July 22nd, 2016, right?
18 A Correct.
19 Q And it's something that you wrote in your
20 role as chair of the Tompkins County legislature,
21 true?
22 A Correct.
23 MR. CELLI: We would move for its
24 admission.
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 365
1 A Yes.
2 Q And on October 10th there is an e-mail
3 from Ms. Baer to you at 5:36 which is the second
4 page of the exhibit?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And in that e-mail Ms. Baer provides you
7 with further information about the nature of her
8 complaints, right?
9 A Yes.
10 Q She talks about the initiatives, titles,
11 and discussions that were acutely related to her
12 areas of expertise from which she was excluded,
13 correct?
14 A That's what she says, yes.
15 Q And she gives ten examples, right?
16 A As a list.
17 Q And those in fact were the ten things
18 that Mr. Taylor investigated, right?
19 A I believe so.
20 Q And that's because you asked him to
21 investigate those ten things, correct?
22 A We asked him to investigate the
23 additional complaints of discrimination and
24 retaliation.
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 369
1 A Yes.
2 Q And as chair of the legislature, this is
3 a document that was communicated to you in that
4 role, true?
5 A Yes.
6 Q On the front, first two pages of this
7 document reflects the focus group recap; do you
8 see that?
9 A I do.
10 Q And this is more or less a summary of the
11 findings of the focus groups of workers in
12 Tompkins County, right?
13 A Correct.
14 Q Have a look at the second page. Do you
15 recall in or about May of 2016 being notified
16 that in the focus groups conducted as part of the
17 climate study, quote, diversity and inclusion
18 needs more attention, unequal treatment in the
19 workplace. Ongoing occurrences of micro
20 aggressions and concerns that the, and the
21 concern that county leadership is not taking the
22 necessary measures to protect employees from
23 disparate conduct and retaliation for complaining
24 about it were the dominant themes across the
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 376
1 A Yes.
2 Q And on the same day, Mr. Lane, you sent a
3 letter to Ms. Baer telling her --
4 A Yes, yes, now I'm with you.
5 Q -- that you would be investigating the
6 charges that she made or the complaints that she
7 filed in July and through October of 2016,
8 correct?
9 A Yes. And that's exactly what it was.
10 The first letter had to do with the Hooks'
11 report. The second one was advising her that we
12 were beginning the investigation on her new
13 series of allegations.
14 Q Got it. So on the same day that you told
15 her that you were, the legislature had hired
16 somebody to investigate for her complaints, her
17 new complaints as of July of 2016, you were
18 telling her that the legislature had also adopted
19 and embraced the findings of Mr. Hooks?
20 A That's correct. Because we had had an
21 executive session and determined that.
22 Q And in Respondent's Exhibit M you refer
23 to having -- strike that. In Charging Party's
24 Exhibit 12 you refer to having retained Mr.
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 382
1 of the legislature.
2 Q Fair enough. Nor was Mr. Taylor directed
3 to conduct an investigation of Ms. Baer's conduct
4 as an employee, right?
5 A I think he had wide latitude as far as
6 the investigation was concerned.
7 Q Was Ms. Baer ever notified that Mr.
8 Taylor was going to conduct an investigation of
9 her behavior as an employee?
10 A This letter was the notification to her.
11 Q And this letter says that he is
12 investigating her complaints, not her. Am I
13 wrong about that?
14 A That's correct.
15 Q So you gave Mr. Taylor the latitude to
16 investigate Ms. Baer, but you never told her
17 about it?
18 MR. MCCANN: Objection. That does
19 not characterize his testimony.
20 MR. CELLI: Please keep the speaking
21 objections to a minimum, John.
22 MR. MCCANN: That's the basis for the
23 objection, Mr. Celli. The question does
24 not fairly characterize the testimony in
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 384
1 the record.
2 HEARING OFFICER: What I see is, it
3 says to --
4 MR. CELLI: This is cross
5 examination, Mr. Solomon. In all
6 fairness --
7 HEARING OFFICER: I know you're
8 allowed to lead and you have latitude.
9 MR. CELLI: I'm entitled to ask this
10 question. Let me ask it a different way.
11 HEARING OFFICER: Rephrase it.
12 MR. CELLI: I don't want the witness
13 to be confused.
14 Q The letter that we have marked as
15 Charging Party 15. 12, apologize, 12. The
16 letter that we've marked as Charging Party
17 Exhibit 12 informs Ms. Baer that Mr. Taylor has
18 been retained, quote, "to investigate your claims
19 that you've been excluded from county
20 initiatives, titles and discussions," right?
21 A Yes.
22 Q That's the precise language. Nowhere
23 does it say and we've also asked Mr. Taylor or
24 given him latitude to investigate you, Ms. Baer,
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 385
1 as an employee, right?
2 A I said, I think what I said is he was
3 given wide latitude.
4 Q Right. And you never told her about that
5 latitude, did you?
6 A We didn't, there wasn't any way to say
7 what the latitude was.
8 Q Well, you could have written her a letter
9 and said we have to have him investigate you as
10 an employee, but you didn't do that?
11 A I did not do that.
12 Q Thank you.
13 MR. MCCANN: Objection. There's no
14 foundation for that question.
15 HEARING OFFICER: I'll allow the
16 question in terms of expediency to move on,
17 but I understand what the testimony and
18 implications are.
19 Q In fact one of the things that Ms. Baer
20 complained about with respect to the Hooks'
21 report is that it wasn't an investigation of her
22 complaint, it was an investigation of her, right?
23 MR. MCCANN: Objection.
24 Q You remember that part, don't you?
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 386
1 A No.
2 Q She was never ordered to do that?
3 A And we didn't do that with the Hooks'
4 report either, but she did.
5 Q Okay. That's fair. That's fine. I just
6 want to make sure I'm missing something here.
7 HEARING OFFICER: I doubt that you've
8 missed anything, Counselor.
9 Q And to your knowledge, Mr. Lane, as you
10 sit here today nobody from the county
11 administration or the legislature in any position
12 of authority ever said to Ms. Baer if you don't
13 sit down for a face-to-face interview with Mr.
14 Taylor, you're going to be disciplined for that,
15 right?
16 MR. MCCANN: Objection,
17 argumentative.
18 HEARING OFFICER: I understand. I
19 think I know the answer.
20 MR. CELLI: Well, let's hear the
21 answer because I need it for the record.
22 A Should I answer?
23 HEARING OFFICER: Yeah, you can
24 answer that.
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 390
1 A Not to my knowledge.
2 Q And you're aware that Mr. Taylor actually
3 determined what the procedures would be by
4 talking to people in the county administration,
5 right?
6 A With our attorney.
7 Q Well, he spoke to Mr. Mareane about it,
8 didn't he?
9 A He did.
10 Q And Mr. Mareane was I guess not recused
11 from this one; is that correct?
12 A Mr. Mareane was the county administrator
13 and if there was a question about procedural
14 items, then he would be the right person to talk
15 to.
16 Q Okay. Just for clarity of the record,
17 you would agree with me, Mr. Lane, that between
18 February 1st, 2017 and August 15th, 2017 neither
19 Mr. Taylor nor no one else associated with the
20 county wrote a letter to Ms. Baer providing her
21 with the procedures of the investigation, right?
22 A To the best of my knowledge, yeah.
23 Q There wasn't any e-mail that got sent to
24 anybody?
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 396
1 setting?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Do you think it was appropriate for Mr.
4 Taylor to be making findings about Ms. Baer's
5 role as an employee when in fact he was tasked to
6 investigate her complaints about her treatment by
7 others?
8 MR. MCCANN: Objections. Assumes
9 facts not in evidence.
10 Q Do you understand my question, Mr. Lane?
11 HEARING OFFICER: I'll allow the
12 question for I'll decide how much weight to
13 put on the answer in light of all of this.
14 Q Let me ask it a different way. When you
15 read that Mr. Taylor had determined that Ms. Baer
16 was insubordinate, did you think he had gone
17 beyond the direction that the legislature gave
18 him as to what to investigate?
19 A No.
20 Q So you thought it was fair and
21 appropriate for him to make that finding?
22 A We had, we asked for an investigation and
23 it was the investigation he provided us.
24 Q You also saw that he determined -- strike
MICHAEL LANE by MR. CELLI 398
1 A Yes.
2 Q What did you do?
3 A Well, when I, I graduated from high
4 school and I took a year and a half. I joined a
5 traveling singer theater group that traveled
6 around the country, and after about a year and a
7 half I started my college career.
8 Q Where did you go to college?
9 A I did, I first went to community college
10 and got an associate's degree at a community
11 college and worked for a year. And then went to
12 Cornell and got my bachelor's. Worked for a
13 couple of years. And then after that I went on
14 to law school.
15 Q Where did you go to law school?
16 A Syracuse University College of Law.
17 Q And what did you do or focus on during
18 your time at Syracuse?
19 A Well, I was 34 years old when I
20 graduated. And I was the first one in my family
21 to do graduate work. I took mainly human rights
22 courses and I won the jurisprudence of human
23 rights award which I'm very proud of. I was part
24 of the women's law caucus in the black law
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 404
1 command?
2 A Joe Mareane, county administrator.
3 Q Is there also a Tompkins County Human
4 Rights Commission?
5 A Yes.
6 Q What is that and how does it relate to
7 the Office of Human Rights?
8 A Well, the commission is an advisory board
9 to the legislature. I think there are up to 15
10 members. They serve three year terms and they
11 are appointed by the county legislature.
12 Q Are the members employees or something
13 else?
14 A Volunteers, community volunteers.
15 Q And how does the commission, how does its
16 work relate, if at all, to the Office of Human
17 Rights' work?
18 A Well, they are two autonomous bodies.
19 The Office of Human Rights is a department of the
20 county. And the Human Rights Commission is an
21 advisory board. We certainly have very similar
22 missions and assist each other in achieving those
23 objectives, but neither entity reports to the
24 other.
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 409
1 competent manager?
2 A Yes.
3 Q What about on the last page, the before
4 the last page of the report, page six, did Mr.
5 Mareane write, "as indicated throughout this
6 review Karen is a strong manager and leader. The
7 human rights office today is remarkably better
8 than it was just a year ago."?
9 A Yes.
10 Q And did he write at the very end of your
11 review, "I'm very pleased we were able to attract
12 someone of Karen's caliber to the county. She
13 has already made a meaningful difference and I
14 suspect this is just the beginning"?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Did the review set forth some goals for
17 your work in the future?
18 A Yes, it did.
19 Q What were those?
20 A Over the next year Karen will need to
21 decide what to build on the foundation that she
22 has worked to strengthen. In particular a
23 strategic decision needs to be made about our
24 role in the enforcement of human rights law.
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 412
1 activity.
2 Q What do you mean when you say, just
3 briefly, reinstate the memorandum of
4 understanding with the state? What are you
5 referring to there?
6 A Well, when I arrived, after decades of
7 Tompkins County having a relationship with the
8 state division of human rights through a
9 memorandum of understanding in 2008, that MOU
10 lapsed. And it meant that the Office of Human
11 Rights in the county no longer had very specific
12 powers to process complaints of local
13 discrimination complaints.
14 Q And when did Mr. Mareane give you this
15 performance review?
16 A April 15th, 2014.
17 Q And at the time he gave you this
18 performance review, was it your impression that
19 Mr. Mareane was supportive of your interest in
20 developing stronger mechanisms for local human
21 rights enforcement?
22 A Yes. He knew I was in the process of
23 drafting a proposal for that, yes.
24 Q And do you see on page six where Mr.
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 414
1 the commission.
2 MS. SALZMAN: It's a volunteer
3 position.
4 HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
5 Q Other than your own belief, Karen, did
6 you have any other basis to believe that the
7 conduct was racially motivated?
8 A Well, yes. Eventually the persons of
9 color on the commission also felt that I was
10 being treated differently because of my race by
11 the chair. Also because they had their own
12 experiences with similar interactions with the
13 chair.
14 Q And did you observe a difference in your
15 view in the way the chair treated you and the
16 commissioners of color and how she treated white
17 county officials?
18 A Absolutely, yes.
19 MR. MCCANN: Hearing Officer, can I
20 have another side bar?
21 HEARING OFFICER: Another side bar.
22 Excuse us.
23 (RECESS TAKEN.)
24 HEARING OFFICER: Could you repeat
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 428
1 legislators?
2 A Well, I know for a fact that the county
3 administrator, Mr. Mareane, was very displeased.
4 And I was told that the legislators were also
5 displeased.
6 MR. MCCANN: Objection. Hearsay, the
7 not responsive to the question --
8 MS. SALZMAN: It's not for the truth
9 of the matter asserted.
10 MR. MCCANN: -- and ask that it be
11 stricken.
12 MS. SALZMAN: It's for what she
13 perceived.
14 HEARING OFFICER: I'll allow the
15 answer and I'll decide how much weight to
16 give it knowing that there is some hearsay
17 to it.
18 A And I was told by a legislator that
19 legislators in general were upset with me because
20 they believed Miss Pryor's story.
21 Q Let's talk about what happened to you and
22 your work in the months after Miss Pryor resigned
23 in August 2015. What happened?
24 A Well, everything changed from that time
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 432
1 A Right.
2 Q And the part you're saying, just so the
3 record is clear, you were familiar with is the
4 underlying report that was issued in May of 2016?
5 A Yes. This I believe I had seen through
6 the normal course of business either on the WDIC
7 or, but this I, actually I think this is a FOIL
8 request. This is a document that I didn't have
9 because I wasn't in any of the focus groups.
10 Q So the documents in evidence, and I'm not
11 going to have you take us through it, but can you
12 just tell us what you took away from that
13 document in the spring of 2016 when you received
14 it?
15 A Well, on the second page I have to say
16 that under the paragraph diversity and inclusion
17 I thought that that was my story.
18 Q And just to be clear, Karen, you weren't
19 part of the focus group that made these findings
20 in this report, right?
21 A I wasn't part of the group. And not only
22 that, but when I took the survey before, you
23 know, the transition I was really pretty happy.
24 I would have been an identified African-American
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 452
1 describing?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Did you write on the second page, "I
4 fully realize that many of you are not motivated
5 to exclude or even know or believe the fuller
6 story as I have conveyed it, but I did want to
7 make you aware that there exists a climate within
8 this county workforce where exclusion and
9 retribution is able to take hold in a very
10 oppressive way." Did you write that?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And did you go on to write, "so I relate
13 to you this story by way of example in order to
14 allow you an opportunity to possibly empathize
15 with what it must feel like for me and my staff,
16 all persons of color, to read the highlights of
17 your meeting last night and to realize how
18 invisible it makes us and our efforts seem in
19 your eyes. In many ways what has transpired does
20 not appear dissimilar, both in style and impact,
21 to the types old school tactics used for decades
22 to exclude people like us." Did you write that?
23 A Yes, I did.
24 Q And how did Mr. Lane respond -- you can
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 454
1 see that?
2 A Oh, yes. Yeah.
3 Q What were you doing in that October 10th,
4 2016 e-mail? What was your purpose in writing
5 it?
6 A I responded to Mr. Lane by sending him
7 some of the exclusions that I had experienced
8 since the resignation of Miss Pryor and I think,
9 I don't know, there are ten of them. And each is
10 a situation where I felt like I was qualified.
11 It was in my area of expertise and I wasn't asked
12 to participate or I couldn't participate.
13 MS. SALZMAN: Just give me one moment
14 please.
15 Q Let's go through those, Karen. The first
16 one is ban the box, right?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And we already talked about that. What
19 about the climate survey steering committee? You
20 sort of briefly mentioned that before, but how
21 did you feel excluded from that?
22 A Well, before Pat Pryor resigned I was an
23 integral part of the climate survey initiative.
24 And afterwards I, I wasn't able to participate.
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 456
1 he provide to you?
2 MR. MCCANN: Objection. Relevancy,
3 unless it was stated to him.
4 MS. SALZMAN: Relevancy? The first
5 charge in the case is she failed to
6 cooperate with the Taylor investigation.
7 HEARING OFFICER: I'll allow the
8 question.
9 MR. MCCANN: My objection is not to
10 what he said to her. My objection is what
11 she would have wanted.
12 MS. SALZMAN: I don't understand your
13 objection, but I heard a relevance
14 objection and the testimony is clearly
15 relevant.
16 HEARING OFFICER: Yeah, I'll allow
17 the question.
18 A So I'm a federally trained investigator.
19 So the investigations that I do follow a very
20 particular process and I'm very meticulous about
21 that. And what I went through with the Hooks'
22 process didn't look at all to me like a process
23 that I was familiar with. So some of the things
24 that I was looking for was first of all I would
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 479
1 him.
2 Q And did your June 9th letter also refer
3 to your requests for conciliation?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Did Mr. Taylor ever follow up with you to
6 discuss a conciliation based approach?
7 A No.
8 Q Did you hear from Mr. Taylor at all in
9 any way after you sent him your June 9th letter?
10 A No. Only the issuance of his final
11 report.
12 Q You can set those letters aside. Did
13 there come a time after Mr. Taylor's final report
14 that you were served with the charges that began
15 this proceeding, Karen?
16 A I'm sorry?
17 Q Did there come a time after Mr. Taylor
18 finished his report when you were served with the
19 charges that began this proceeding?
20 A Yes.
21 MS. SALZMAN: Can we have Hearing
22 Officer Exhibit 1, Mr. Hearing Officer?
23 HEARING OFFICER: Are you talking
24 about Hearing Officer Exhibit 1?
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 486
1 A Yes.
2 Q And that's the WDIC that we've been
3 referring to at various points throughout the
4 testimony, right?
5 A Yes.
6 Q How did you come to be a member of the
7 WDIC?
8 A I volunteered to serve.
9 Q Was being a member of the WDIC in your
10 job description?
11 A No.
12 Q Was being a member of the WDIC in your
13 charter powers?
14 A No.
15 Q Did your supervisor, Mr. Mareane, ever
16 direct you to serve on the WDIC?
17 A No.
18 Q Did anyone ever direct you to serve on
19 the WDIC?
20 A No.
21 MS. SALZMAN: Can we have Charging
22 Party Exhibit 16 please.
23 Q Charging Party Exhibit 16, Karen, is that
24 the e-mail you sent to Mike Lane to let him know
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 488
1 A No.
2 Q Did anyone tell you that it was a breach
3 of your duties to resign from the WDIC?
4 A No.
5 Q Have other county employees ever resigned
6 from the WDIC before their term expired?
7 A Yes.
8 (RESPONDENT'S EXHIBIT Q WAS MARKED
9 FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
10 Q Showing you a document, Karen, that has
11 been marked as Exhibit Q. Is this a Tompkins
12 County document?
13 A It certainly looks like one. I think
14 I've seen it on the website.
15 MS. SALZMAN: We'll offer Exhibit Q
16 into evidence.
17 HEARING OFFICER: What is it?
18 MS. SALZMAN: County advisory board
19 vacancies dated September 5th, 2017.
20 HEARING OFFICER: What are you
21 demonstrating by this so I know?
22 MS. SALZMAN: As an offer of proof
23 that there are many vacancies on the WDIC
24 and other county committees with unexpired
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 490
1 vacancies.
2 HEARING OFFICER: It doesn't
3 demonstrate people who have resigned and
4 not been disciplined is what I suppose, but
5 this document doesn't say that.
6 MS. SALZMAN: Well, I would like to
7 elicit witness testimony about this
8 document and hear what the witness has to
9 say rather than --
10 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Well so far
11 it's marked for identification.
12 MS. SALZMAN: If I can have her
13 testify about it, that's great.
14 MR. MCCANN: You say it's in
15 evidence?
16 HEARING OFFICER: I say it's been
17 marked for identification.
18 MR. MCCANN: Marked for
19 identification.
20 Q Karen, what does this chart show?
21 A Well, these are a list of all the county
22 boards and commissions. And if you look at page
23 two, you'll see the workforce diversity and
24 inclusion committee.
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 492
1 A Yes, I do.
2 Q How did you become a member of the
3 compliance committee?
4 A I volunteered to serve.
5 Q Was being a member of the compliance
6 committee in your job description?
7 A No.
8 Q Was being a member of the compliance
9 committee listed in your charter duties and
10 powers?
11 A No.
12 Q Did your supervisor Mr. Mareane ever
13 order you to serve on the compliance committee?
14 A No.
15 Q Did anyone ever order you to serve on
16 compliance committee?
17 A No.
18 Q When did you resign from the compliance
19 committee?
20 A October, August.
21 Q Let's take a look at a document to
22 refresh your recollection.
23 MS. SALZMAN: Can we see Charging
24 Party Exhibit 7, Mr. Hearing Officer.
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 495
1 A No.
2 Q When you raised your concerns in 2015 and
3 2016 about discrimination and retaliation, did
4 you have a reasonable good faith belief for
5 raising those concerns?
6 A Absolutely.
7 Q Did you have a reasonable good faith
8 belief that you were being discriminated and
9 retaliated against on the basis of your race and
10 sex?
11 A Yes.
12 Q What happened when you were served with
13 the charges in this case, Karen? Let me take you
14 back. Withdraw that question for a minute.
15 We'll get there in one moment and we really will
16 be done. But tell me briefly from between the
17 time the Taylor report was finished in July and
18 when you received the charges in this case, what
19 if anything were you doing in that period of
20 time? I guess it's August and September of 2017.
21 A Well, we were actively trying to get
22 support for not only ban the box, but also source
23 of income protections. And which led to an OpEd
24 piece that I wrote in the Voice, the Ithaca Voice
KAREN BAER by MS. SALZMAN 506
1 J A M I L A W A L I D A S I M O N
2 having been called as a witness,
3 having been duly sworn, was examined
4 and testified as follows:
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY
6 MR. CELLI:
7 Q Good afternoon and thank you for coming.
8 Miss Simon, are you employed?
9 A Yes.
10 Q What do you do for a living now?
11 A I serve as a civic engagement specialist
12 for the Bronfenbrenner Center for Translational
13 Research at the New York State 4-H office at
14 Cornell University.
15 Q And just a brief description of what you
16 do?
17 A Sure. I engage with educators all around
18 New York State through our Cooperative Extension
19 System through our Land Grant at Cornell.
20 Q Can you tell Mr. Solomon a little bit
21 about your educational background since college?
22 A Sure. I earned a bachelor's degree from
23 Wells College in environmental policy and
24 sciences values with the emphasis on science
JAMILA WALIDA SIMON by MR. CELLI 518
1 A I do.
2 Q And how do you know Pat Pryor?
3 A Pat Pryor was the former chair for the
4 Tompkins County Human Rights Commission.
5 Q And were you on the commission when Miss
6 Pryor was the chair?
7 A Yes. We both served at the same time.
8 Q Did there come a time -- strike that. Do
9 you also know a person by the name of Karen Baer?
10 A Absolutely.
11 Q And how do you know Karen?
12 A I know Karen through her work at the
13 commission, but also through her work at the
14 Office of Human Rights.
15 Q And did there come a time when you
16 conveyed to Ms. Baer concerns that you had about
17 Miss Pryor in her role as chair of the Human
18 Rights Commission?
19 A No.
20 Q Did there come a time when you had
21 concerns about Miss Pryor in her role as chair of
22 the Human Rights Commission?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And generally speaking and briefly what
JAMILA WALIDA SIMON by MR. CELLI 521
1 people?
2 A Yes.
3 Q What do you recall about your meeting
4 with Mr. Hooks?
5 A Yes. I recall that Mr. Hooks fell asleep
6 a few times during the meeting and that was quite
7 offensive to us. I recall taking notes, copious
8 notes that we provided to Mr. Hooks just to make
9 sure that we were clear about the nature of the
10 conversation because he was sleeping. And I also
11 recall that at the end of the meeting Mr. Hooks
12 was, basically had disclosed to us that all of
13 this was basically because of interpersonal
14 conflict and also that we were ranting during the
15 meeting.
16 Q When Mr. Hooks said that the comment
17 about interpersonal conflict, who was he
18 referring to?
19 A I wasn't sure who he was referring to,
20 but I assumed that it was Pat Pryor.
21 Q That was your understanding?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And subsequent to that meeting with Mr.
24 Hooks, were you given an opportunity to review
JAMILA WALIDA SIMON by MR. CELLI 527
1 Commission?
2 A Absolutely.
3 Q Why do you say that?
4 A She was a champion for all the work that
5 we did. She presented opportunities to give
6 presentations. She also used the funds from
7 those presentations that she received in the
8 office in order to be able to facilitate
9 activities by the commission. And she just
10 continually came out to support us in any way
11 that she could. There were also a number of
12 extraneous activities that commissioners got
13 involved in and Karen also provided support for
14 those activities as well.
15 Q Just one other set of questions. You
16 described a meeting between yourself and other
17 commissioners from the Human Rights Commission
18 and legislators. I think you said it was a
19 volatile meeting. Do you remember that?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Did that occur before or after your
22 interview with Mr. Hooks?
23 A That was before.
24 MR. CELLI: I have no further
JAMILA WALIDA SIMON by MR. MCCANN 529
1 questions.
2 HEARING OFFICER: This gentleman may
3 ask you some questions.
4 CROSS EXAMINATION BY
5 MR. MCCANN:
6 Q Good afternoon. My name is John McCann.
7 I'm an attorney representing the county
8 legislature and the charges brought against Ms.
9 Baer. When is the last time the commission met?
10 A We just met actually earlier in November.
11 Q And before that when was the last time
12 the commission had met?
13 A October.
14 Q Is that regularly every month?
15 A We take a hiatus, actually we've taken a
16 hiatus the last two summers.
17 Q Other than the hiatus in the summer, has
18 the commission met every month of every year?
19 A Yes.
20 Q You indicate you're chair of the
21 commission. Is there any dispute as to who is
22 chair of the commission?
23 A Not in my mind.
24 Q Are you aware of a dispute in that
JAMILA WALIDA SIMON by MR. MCCANN 530
1 regard?
2 A No.
3 MR. CELLI: I'm going to object on
4 relevancy. I'm not sure how this is
5 connected.
6 HEARING OFFICER: I'll allow some
7 leeway as you know, but I'm curious about
8 relevancy too.
9 MR. MCCANN: Just following up
10 regarding her background.
11 Q What unilateral decisions did Pat Pryor
12 make?
13 A Pat would make decisions about what
14 activities we were involved in. Who was invited
15 to commission meetings. If she was consulting
16 with Peter Stein on any issues that were
17 involving the commission and that was something
18 that we were jointly making a decision on as
19 commissioners, but she would make a decision and
20 then communicate it back to the commission.
21 Q What decisions?
22 A She would make decisions on who guest
23 speakers might be and then she would also make
24 decisions on what was relevant to the commission
JAMILA WALIDA SIMON by MR. MCCANN 531
1 in e-mail to us as commissioners.
2 Q Can you give me examples of that?
3 A I can't think of any right now.
4 Q Who is Peter Stein?
5 A Peter Stein was a county legislator.
6 Q Do you know what his role at the
7 legislature was?
8 A What his role, no.
9 Q Did you know that he headed the committee
10 that the Office of Human Rights and the Human
11 Rights Commission worked for?
12 A Sorry?
13 Q Wasn't he the head of the committee that
14 your commission reported to?
15 A What committee? I'm not sure what
16 committee you're referring to.
17 Q Health and human services?
18 A I think that that's debatable.
19 Q Why is it debatable?
20 A Because is he a liaison from that
21 committee? I'm not really sure. I think that
22 that's something that we were trying to find out
23 as commissioners if he was a liaison or
24 self-appointed.
JAMILA WALIDA SIMON by MR. MCCANN 533
1 answered.
2 MR. MCCANN: I don't think it's been
3 answered.
4 HEARING OFFICER: She is, not
5 specifically in terms of, other than naming
6 names. Peter Stein. Were there other ones
7 on the legislature?
8 A Jim Dennis. That's run through the list
9 of the folks that were at the meeting that was
10 convened in terms of the intervention for the
11 commission.
12 Q That was after the fact though, right?
13 A That was after the fact so we could move
14 forward because again Pat Pryor was holding up
15 the flow of us being able to move forward and to
16 advance our mission.
17 Q But any concern you had for Jim Dennis in
18 that meeting could not be a basis for having a
19 meeting?
20 MR. CELLI: Objection.
21 Q So what legislators other than Peter
22 Stein?
23 A I think you're reaching and that's
24 something that you're projecting. I haven't said
JAMILA WALIDA SIMON by MR. MCCANN 541
1 that.
2 Q I'm just asking the question. Who?
3 A Yes. Run through the list of legislators
4 who attended the intervention.
5 MR. CELLI: Mr. Solomon, Mr. McCann
6 is not happy with the answer so he keeps
7 asking it and that is not proper
8 examination.
9 HEARING OFFICER: Do you remember the
10 names of the other legislators --
11 A That's the answer --
12 HEARING OFFICER: -- that you were
13 concerned about other than Peter Stein?
14 A There were a number of legislators. I
15 think that the nature of what I provided is very
16 clear. I had concerns because Pat Pryor was
17 providing detailed information to legislators.
18 HEARING OFFICER: And you are
19 concerned about --
20 A If you want me to name those legislators,
21 I'm not sure I need to name those legislators. I
22 do want to establish is that she had specific
23 relationships with legislators and that was of
24 concern to us because she was utilizing those
JAMILA WALIDA SIMON by MR. MCCANN 542
1 holidays.
2 MR. CELLI: Before we call our next
3 witness I'd like to for the record renew
4 our objection to the adjournment. You just
5 saw a very skillful, very knowledgeable
6 cross examination conducted by Mr. McCann
7 on a topic that never came up before at all
8 except in our answer which gave him full
9 notice of all the things that our client
10 was going to testify to almost down to
11 every detail. And I just want to renew and
12 point as Exhibit A to Mr. McCann's very
13 effective cross examination with a lot of
14 information that he clearly has in his can
15 and that would make it very simple for him
16 to conduct and complete his cross
17 examination of our client right now.
18 MR. MCCANN: If I may respond.
19 HEARING OFFICER: You certainly may.
20 MR. MCCANN: The difference is you
21 provided me with a copy of the subpoena of
22 this witness so of course I did some due
23 diligence to try to understand the limited,
24 it was a very limited questioning by you,
550
1 C A R M E N A R R O Y O,
2 having been called as a witness,
3 having been duly sworn, was examined
4 and testified as follows:
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY
6 MR. CELLI:
7 Q Good afternoon. Miss Arroyo, would you
8 tell Mr. Solomon what you do for a living?
9 A Sure. I have been for the last almost 14
10 years, well actually 15 years the receptionist at
11 the Tompkins County Office of Human Rights.
12 Q And just out of curiosity, how many
13 directors of the Office of Human Rights have you
14 worked with in those 15 years?
15 A Two.
16 Q And one of them is Karen Baer?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And can you tell Mr. Solomon about your
19 duties and responsibilities as the receptionist?
20 A Sure. So as a receptionist I answer the
21 phone. Attend to clients that walk into the
22 office. I pay the bills. Order supplies and I
23 assist my coworkers in anything that they need
24 help with.
CARMEN ARROYO by MR. CELLI 552
1 A I didn't. I didn't.
2 Q And what prompted you to look through
3 your records of phone calls just for Timothy
4 Taylor?
5 A Not just for Timothy Taylor, but there
6 was conversation of hearings and that's when I,
7 October 31st I created the document.
8 Q What conversation of hearing are you
9 referring to?
10 A The conversation of the public hearing
11 that was going to happen for Miss Karen Baer.
12 HEARING OFFICER: This hearing?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And who did you have that conversation
15 with?
16 A It was a conversation in the office
17 within staff.
18 Q Who would that be?
19 A Kim Cornish, Xavier Ross and myself.
20 Q Did you have any conversations with Karen
21 Baer about the hearing?
22 A No.
23 Q Did you have any conversations with Karen
24 Baer about any phone records you would have of
CARMEN ARROYO by MR. MCCANN 559
1 copy of an e-mail.
2 Q It says client information?
3 A No, that is not client information. That
4 is just a forwarded e-mail. And then, I don't
5 have the copy of the page that was a voice
6 message so.
7 Q Do you have that in your office?
8 A I do have it in the office, yes.
9 Q What would that be again?
10 A It's just one of the pages on my notebook
11 that has a voice message.
12 Q When you say it has a voice message, is
13 it your transcribing it?
14 A Yes. I got the voice message and I wrote
15 it down in my notebook.
16 Q Was the message more than hi, this is Tim
17 Taylor. Here is my number?
18 A Nope.
19 Q That's all it was?
20 A That's all it was.
21 Q Do you recall the date of it?
22 A I don't recall the date.
23 Q Would your notes have indicated the date?
24 A Yes.
CARMEN ARROYO by MR. MCCANN 563
1 A Right.
2 Q Do you recall him being persistent in
3 calling?
4 A He called, like it says on the list he
5 called on January. The message was on February.
6 March he called one time. April he called twice.
7 May one time.
8 HEARING OFFICER: The question to you
9 was would you characterize this as being
10 persistent?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Did Mr. Taylor express any frustration to
13 you that Ms. Baer was not returning his calls?
14 A No.
15 Q So I have on here, your memorandum, he
16 called on January 31, 2017, March 7, 2017. On
17 that occasion he actually requested that Ms. Baer
18 meet with him in the upcoming Thursday or Friday
19 according to your memorandum?
20 A Uh huh.
21 Q Because he wished to review her
22 complaint, is that what he said to you?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Did you convey that to Ms. Baer?
CARMEN ARROYO by MR. MCCANN 565
1 A Yes.
2 Q And called again on April 7, 2017, April
3 26, 2017 and May 4, 2017 and you spoke to him on
4 each of those occasions?
5 A Yes, I did.
6 Q Did you relay each of those messages to
7 Ms. Baer?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And when you received a voicemail or
10 picked up a voicemail from Mr. Taylor, did you
11 always relay that message to Ms. Baer?
12 A Yes.
13 Q You state here that all voicemail
14 messages I received did not substantially differ
15 from the above conversations I had with Mr.
16 Taylor.
17 A Uh huh.
18 Q I take that to mean at a minimum he would
19 call, request Ms. Baer call him back?
20 A He would leave his name, phone number and
21 requested Ms. Baer to call him.
22 Q In any of his voicemails did he, as he
23 did in one of these calls, suggest particular
24 days he would want to meet with Ms. Baer?
CARMEN ARROYO by MR. MCCANN 566
1 A No.
2 Q It was just that one call?
3 A Yeah, just the one call.
4 Q And that was the second call?
5 A Yes, on the 7th of May.
6 Q And do you know whether Ms. Baer returned
7 the first call?
8 A I don't think so.
9 HEARING OFFICER: Let me if I may. I
10 have a question. You were taking the
11 messages because Ms. Baer was out?
12 A Correct. She was either out or busy
13 doing something else in the office, yes. We have
14 a general phone number in the office so all the
15 calls come through my line first.
16 Q And did you ever ask Ms. Baer why she
17 wasn't returning Mr. Taylor's calls?
18 A No.
19 Q Did she ever tell you?
20 A Uh huh. I believe that she had requested
21 communication in writing and she had requested a
22 process for her to follow.
23 Q And what is the basis for that belief?
24 A For what belief?
CARMEN ARROYO by MR. MCCANN 567
1 FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
2 Q Miss Arroyo, I'm just about done with
3 you. Thank you for your patience. I show the
4 document I had marked as Charging Party Exhibit
5 19 that is a document you handed to me from a
6 folder. It appears to be an e-mail?
7 A Yes. It was an e-mail.
8 Q That is an e-mail that you sent to Ms.
9 Baer?
10 A Yes. Ms. Baer, her e-mail is right
11 there.
12 Q And this, what's the purpose of this
13 e-mail?
14 A It was a voice message that Mr. Taylor
15 left on our phone with his name and phone number
16 and please call.
17 Q And the date indicated here is February
18 1, 2017?
19 A Correct.
20 Q Is there a reason why you memorialized
21 this particular voicemail and not any other
22 voicemails?
23 A No. Just the same reason that I said
24 before when I've heard that there was a process
ELIZABETH BRUNDIGE by MR. CELLI 570
1 MR. CELLI:
2 Q Good afternoon.
3 A Good afternoon.
4 Q Can you please state your name and
5 business address for the record?
6 A Elizabeth Brundige, Hughes Hall, sorry,
7 Cornell Law School, Hughes Hall, Myron Taylor
8 Hall. No, sorry. Let me start over. Elizabeth
9 Brundige, Cornell Law School, Hughes Hall,
10 Ithaca, New York 14853. I moved offices and I
11 actually moved halls.
12 Q But you work at the law school?
13 A I work at Cornell Law School, yes.
14 Q If enough people give enough money they
15 will change the name of the school. What do you
16 do, Miss Brundige?
17 A I'm an associated clinical professor of
18 law and assistant dean for international programs
19 at the law school.
20 Q Can you tell Mr. Solomon, who is our
21 hearing officer, a little bit about your academic
22 and professional accomplishments since college.
23 MR. MCCANN: If I may because it went
24 by so quick could I just get your positions
ELIZABETH BRUNDIGE by MR. CELLI 572
1 again.
2 A Associate clinical professor of law and
3 assistant dean for international programs.
4 Q Can you tell Mr. Solomon about your
5 educational background since college?
6 A Sure. So after college I did a master's
7 of philosophy in development studies at Oxford
8 University and then a JD at Yale Law School.
9 After that I worked for, I clerked for a judge in
10 the Court of Appeals for the First Circuit in
11 Portland, Maine and for a justice of the
12 Constitutional Court of South Africa in South
13 Africa. I worked for an NGO, the International
14 Association of Women Judges based in DC doing
15 work in Africa. And also an associate legal
16 officer for the International Criminal Tribunal
17 for the former Yugoslavia. Then went back to law
18 school at Yale and was a clinical teaching fellow
19 there. And a Bernstein, or an Allard K.
20 Lowenstein fellow in International Human Rights
21 for three years and then came to Cornell.
22 HEARING OFFICER: Obviously this
23 witness is not qualified.
24 Q We can all go home now with shear
ELIZABETH BRUNDIGE by MR. CELLI 573
1 A It was, yeah.
2 Q And have you had any occasion in your
3 role at the Cornell Law School and the Gender
4 Justice Clinic to work with Ms. Baer in the
5 office?
6 A So I have. So we were really excited
7 that this first project that we developed that
8 the Office of Human Rights supported ended up
9 being quite successful and the Tompkins County
10 legislature adopted a regulation that recognized
11 that freedom from domestic violence is a
12 fundamental human right, undertook to initiate a
13 study of gaps and challenges in domestic violence
14 prevention and response in the county, recognize
15 the obligation of the government and the
16 community to prevent and respond to domestic
17 violence. And we began conversations, following
18 that resolution, different localities in Tompkins
19 County adopted similar resolutions, began having
20 conversations how those resolutions could be
21 implemented. And I think as part of that I had a
22 meeting with Paula Younger I think and she
23 recommended that, particularly in connection with
24 an initiative we were planning to undertake to
ELIZABETH BRUNDIGE by MR. CELLI 576
1 I N D E X
2 Witness Examination By Pages
Timothy Taylor Mr. McCann 34-81, 165-168
3 Ms. Salzman 81-165, 168-172
4 Paula Younger Mr. McCann 173-190
Mr. Celli 190-251
5
Michael Lane Mr. McCann 252-301
6 Mr. Celli 302-397
7 Karen Baer Ms. Salzman 399-510
8 Jamila Simon Mr. Celli 575-526
Mr. McCann 527-546
9
Carmen Arroyo Mr. Celli 549-554
10 Mr. McCann 554-568
11 Elizabeth Brundige Mr. Celli 568-579
Mr. McCann 579-580
12
13
E X H I B I T S
14
Number Description MKD ADM
15 HO-1 10/13/17 letter of charges 4 71
HO-2 designation of hearing officer 5 71
16 HO-3 report of investigation 5 71
HO-4 10/25/17 answer to charges 5 71
17 HO-5 11/8/17 confirmation of hearing 5 71
18 CP-1 Taylor resume 46 48
CP-2 e-mail 60 63
19 CP-3 6/9/17 e-mail from Baer 64 64
CP-4 compliance program 175 176
20 CP-5 9/17/15 e-mail 178 179
CP-6 agenda for 9/17/15 meeting 180 181
21 CP-7 e-mail thread 184 186
CP-8 authorization-Section 75 hearing 255 256
22 CP-9 picture of legislature 257 263
CP-10 Article 26 from Charter 265 266
23 CP-11 letter to Baer from Lane 276 278
CP-12 1/23/17 letter from Lane to Baer 282 283
24 CP-13 8/15/17 action by legislature 287 287
587
1 Exhibits Continued
2 Number Description MKD ADM
3 CP-14 8/21/17 letter-Taylor report
Adopted 288 290
4 CP-15 diversity/inclusion policy 291 292
CP-16 5/18/17 e-mail from Baer/Lane 295 302
5 CP-17 12/16/14 legislature meeting mins 296 298
CP-18 memo re: Taylor calls 554 556
6 CP-19 2/1/17 e-mail from Arroyo to
Baer re: Taylor calls 566 568
7
8 R-A e-mail 87 88
R-B county policy on discrimation/
9 sexual policy 103 103
R-C workplace climate initiative
10 (Withdrawn) recap/report 125 133
R-C job description 157 158
11 R-D Kenneth Clark LinkedIn page 206 209
R-E progressive discipline policy 218 309
12 R-F memorandum 11/20/15 from Baer 320 322
R-G e-mails 326 330
13 R-H 8/26/16 Baer response 331 332
R-I 9/12/16 letter from Lane 344 344
14 R-J 7/6 e-mail from Baer 354 358
R-K 7/22/16 letter from Lane 362 363
15 R-L workplace survey report 371 375
R-M 1/23/17 letter 377 378
16 R-N Baer resume 402 402
R-O Performance evaluation 407 408
17 R-P Mr. Hooks report 439 440
R-Q (withdrawn) advisory board vacancies 487
18 R-Q Ithaca Voice OpEd 504 505
19
20
21
22
23
24