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The Final Step to Freedom

by Lester Levenson

Lester Speaking to Graduates in California, September 12,1969

Lester: Being purposeful, as I usually am, I told you about my
busi ness involvement to show you that you don't disappear
when you get your realizations. You don't have to leave the
world, and anything you do in the world can be done far
better, with no real involvement. You don't have to fear losing
anything you have, You don't have to fear losing your body.
The only thing you lose is your unfreedom. The only
difference before and after is that before, you were compelled
by your subconscious thoughts: after, you're free. If you have
a thought, you freely choose to put it into your mind. Before,
you had to be unhappy about certain things, or the way things
were going; after, you are never unhappy, because everything
goes the way it should go.
I believe there's a subconscious fear in all of us that, if we go
all the way, we go away. If we go all the way, we're not going
to enjoy the things we're enjoying now. These fears are
unfounded. Anything we have enjoyed before, we can enjoy a
thousand time more after. We can enjoy it a thousand times
more because we are free to go all the way on anything, being
unlimited. There's no limit to joy. There is nothing that we
cannot have. There are no heights that we cannot reach, in
happiness, in money, in health or in anything.
Last time I threw out a challenge—I presented to you how life
could be if you would go all the way. I presented a way of life
when we live by creating things just by thought. When we do
create things by just thought, everything falls into perfect
harmony; nothing goes wrong; everything becomes,
immediately, the way we want it to be.
I presented this to you as a challenge, hoping you would take
it and do just that. As a group we moved relatively high in a
relatively short time. And then we leveled off; the rate of
growth dropped off very much and I thought it was really
foolish to stop it. I just can't under stand even now why you
don't go all the way.

Why not take things for the mere thought of it? Why not have
this perfect harmony when everything goes the way you want
it to go? Why not live with all joy and no sorrow? Why don't
we take this? I really would like to know why we don't take it.
If I know why you don't take it, maybe I can help you get it.
Because I feel sure everyone would like to live the way I
spoke of living, the way I was living back in the early sixties,
and prior to 1952. I'm sure everyone would like to live that
way; you're in a constant state of joy that's beyond anything
you ever experienced before; when everything you think just
So, why don't we do this? I'm really asking: Why don't you do
it? Harry, you're almost coming up with something, aren't
Q: I missed the last meeting.
Lester: Well, I kinda summed it up. There was a time when I
lived and anything I thought would come immediately.
Anything. And everything. And I was telling how beautifully
harmonious everything is; everything falls perfectly into line
for you.
Q: Well I think I'll speak for my own self, things pretty well
come this way, for me. The only limit would be myself
perhaps not knowing where to put the next knot.
Lester: You can have anything you want now? Just by the
Q: What I mean is,—things do connect that way, yes.
Lester: Much better than they used to. But you have to work
for a living, right?
Q: It's getting pretty easy.
Lester: But you have to work for a living.
Q: O.K.
Lester: That's a limitation.
0: I was just reading in the Bhagavad Gita the other day that—
even though you're realized, you never want to give up your
activity because it deludes the ignorant. So where are you

Lester: I don't know about what you're saying, but I say you're
not free yet. You have to work for a living: you have to do
things, right? Or could you stop everything and do nothing
and have everything you want? Could you?
Q: The trend is going that way quite fast. I don't know when I
could cut the cord and be that way.
Lester: O.K. Keep up the trend; keep up the trend.
But the question I'm asking is: Why don't we go to the point
we just think and have things happen?
Q: Well, we're living in ignorance, so to speak.
Lester: We are not. We know the way, right? At least
intellectually we know how to go all the way: we accept that
we are unlimited beings.
Q: To come right down to it, in Truth, what is there to desire?
In other words, you have your peace, you know, what are we
talking about?
Lester: I'm talking about freedom,—I'm using the word
"freedom" Now, because I think it points up the Goal better as
a word than any other word. The top Goal is total Freedom,
Q: How do you go about it? Just by meditating?
Lester: No. By seeing what we are. See, that the word
"meditation" is a word that has meanings that I'm not sure
means the same thing to everyone. But, by discovering what
we are, we discover that we have all power, all knowledge,
that we are unlimited.
Q: How am I to discover what I am if I don't know what I am?

Lester: Well, how? By turning all your attention on you, with

the question "What am I?" and quieting the mind enough so
that the real you is obvious. When your mind is quiet enough,
your real Being is obvious to you, and when it is, you know
and you know, you know, and that's it. So, the way is to keep
that question going: What am I? And as disturbing thoughts
come up to look at them and drop them, and if we keep that
going, we reach a point where they don't come up any more
and then the mind is quiet: then we can see what we are: then
we can undo the balance of the mind. Finally we can wipe out
the entire mind in one stroke. Then we're totally free.
Q: That's what I've been doing.
Lester: What stops you from going all the way?
Q: I don't know. Maybe I'm trying too hard. I want it so very
much, but I don't know what's stopping me.
Lester: When you do it, do you get disturbed with your
thoughts? Q: No.
Lester: What happens when you get quiet?
Q: When I get quiet I get the scents of food and flowers and I
get lost in that. What does it mean?
Lester: It means you're caught up in the sheath of happiness,
which is the last one you have to break through. See, the
coverings over the infinite Being that we are are first; the
physical body, then the mind, then the last one is the
happiness; we get into a state where we get too content and
we stop there, and we just really rest on our laurels and we
enjoy the state that we're in, instead of going on further past
that happiness state.
Q: I still keep asking and all these smells around me of
flowers and food, and different unknown scents.
Lester: All right, when they come; the thing to do is to
disregard them; look at them and let go of them and keep
looking at what you are. Have you seen yourself as all power,
all knowledge? See, then you have more to go. So the only
thing I can say is keep doing it; try to break through that
pleasant state and go higher. See, the top state is not enjoying;
it's a very deep peace, a total well- beingness, a feeling of
Q: I get suspended; I'm up here; I can't go further; I don't want
to come back; I want to find out really what I am, and so there
I am.

Lester: We should reach a state where the real "I" that we are
takes over and takes us in all the way. But, I think, Lil, you
might be afraid of disappearing.
Q: No.
Lester: No?
Q: No, that never enters my mind.
Lester: What do you think might help you go further?
Q: I really don't know. If I knew I would utilize it.
Lester: See, the first incentive lies in having difficulties in life
— pain, mental and physical. But later on, the incentive
should be the goodness of it, that should be the incentive to
have us keep going, going, going.
Well, then the only thing I can say, Lil, is keep it up. Some
day, when you get tired of enjoying, you'll drop the enjoying
and go on further.
Q: I keep saying to myself, "There's more than this."
Lester: Good. There's not enough drive to drive you all the
Q: I might have to do it and push me up there: I don't know.
As I say, maybe I'm trying too hard.
Lester: I don't think so. You can't try too hard. Although the
further you go, the less effort is required. You reach a place
where you can't use effort any more. The real You takes over
and just lifts you all the way to the top. Until that time, you
seemingly have to use effort. So, the only thing I can say is
just keep going with a little more determi nation, if you can, to
get the answer.
Q: I'll tell you what happens, when my eyes are closed, all this
gets light.
Lester: Good! See, you're moving into the astral realm which
is a higher realm than the physical. It's a realm that's more in

Q: That's when I really ask "Who am I?" "Why am I here?"

"What's my relationship to this world?" "Who am I?" Then I
wait. The longer I wait, the brighter things get!
Lester: Well, that's a sign that you're moving up. You're
moving into the astral realm. See, this is the physical. We also
have an astral body and we have a causal body. But you're up
in the astral when you're seeing everything as light without
your eyes being open. So, again I say just keep going, keep
Q: I will do that. This is what I want, more than anything else.
Lester: Anyone else have anything they can add to why we
don't go all the way, or what more do we need? What I'm
saying is can I be of any help to you?
Q: If I call on you, will you help me?
Lester: Can you answer that? Have I helped you?
Q: Yes, you have.
Lester: When we started, some years ago, I told you I will
never leave you so long as you want help. Now the real me
sees you as the real you, and it's the real me that's helping you
when I'm not here in physical body with you. And anytime
you call on that real me, you'll discover the real me is there.
And what happens is you get a lift a bit higher so you can get
the answer yourself; you've got to get it.
Q: In answer to your question, as for myself, Art, well, all of
us, we're involved in a family life which is a limiting factor.
Lester: It's a difficult thing; it's an obstacle.
Q: Specially if you have growing children.
Lester: Yes. Business and family are obstacles, but they can
be tran scended if the time you have not at business is used
digging in to discovering you. After all, how long does it take
an infinite Being to know that he is? He can do it in an instant.
When man so wills, he's immediately set free! So If you take
the time you have not at busi ness and use it to dig to discover
you, you can get the full answer.

Especially now that life is easier and things are coming more
your way by your doing, and just dare to quadruple what
you're doing, mentally, without any more effort, though. Then
you might have four times more time to dwell on the subject.
Q: By dwelling on the subject are you referring always to this
passive mediation or—
Lester: "What am I?" I'm referring to "What am I?" I'm
keeping you at the ultimate question that has to be answered,
and when answered fully, is the ultimate state of Freedom,
which is known by your feeling and by the way your life is.
Life is the way you make it.
When you get there, you can get all the money you want
without working for it.
Q: Course, that's rather misleading. Lester: It is?
Q: Yeah, it's kinda like a sales presentation, a snow-job: Come
on boy, you go my way and you think this way and you'll have
all the money you want. But, actually, when you get into the
program, with that pot of gold, it evaporates because
— Lester: Wait a minute, it evaporates?
Q: Because it's not important any more. Like you say, if we
truly feel that we get the real message that you're speaking of,
then the things that we thought we were going to gain material
wealth when we came into this program, then we find out,
"Gee whiz, that's not anything.
Lester: That's not true.
Q: That's a limitation. Here's a greater Truth. In other words to
have this, I have to give up this.
Lester: That's not true. You haven't done that. Have you?

Q: I haven't come in with that idea in mind, you mean?

Lester: You haven't created everything and then let go of all
your wealth, have you?
Q: No.
Lester: Let me tell you why it isn't true: you've got a false
Q: Maybe it's semantics we're talking about here.
Lester: No, it's not semantics. It's a wrong idea. And I'll tell
you how; I'll talk about me again. When I wanted to prove to
me that I could be a millionaire, I went into the real estate
business, started buying apartment houses on a no-cash
investment in each building. In six-month's time I
accumulated 23 apartment houses, 20 to 40 units each, and I
was worth a million dollars. I had that much equity
accumulated,—I guess it was in 2 years' time. Everything
went up in value and I had it.
All right now, I let it go because I saw that my security was in
my ability to produce at will Now, I know from experience
already I can produce a million dollars. I already know I can
produce at will. And therefore, I have everything that I want. I
decided a year ago, I'm going to make money. It's pouring in
on me—right now. It's pyra miding, very rapidly.
Q: You're achieving the same thing as you were coming into,
or the world to the center and back out again. You are your
Self but your intention is with the world.
Lester: The actual materiality is coming in. You can still have
more and more and more of materiality: there's no trick in
there where you have it and then you don't have it. No, there's
no such trick. If you want it, you can have it more and more.
It's loaded; it's not a snow- job. Now, some people may
choose to—
Q: Some people take it that way is what I was referring to,
that this is the golden road and so on and actually when they
get into it and begin to see the Truth, there's this thing, what
you are, and you've got to give up this almost to enjoy this
over here.

Lester: You don't have to give up anything, Harry. You take

on more and more and more. You don't give up anything.
I've heard you say the very same thing, that finally you get to
the place where you give up the greater pleasure for the lesser
pleasure. I've heard you say that.
Lester: You give up a lesser pleasure for a greater pleasure;
you got it upside down. You're taking on more all the time, not
the reverse. You're carrying through some of your old
concepts and applying it to what I'm saying which isn't true;
you take on more and more all the time. You're reaching for an
infinity and you never stop until you've got an infinity.
That's right. Here's your infinity and then you reach back here
for something that's not infinite.
Lester: Ah, no, wait a minute, the infinity includes all; there's
nothing excluded. Your concept of infinity as being partial
needs to be checked.
Well, relevant to Truth, Truth is what doesn't change and the
world changes so it's illusionary, it's a momentary
truth. Lester: Do you really think you're going to have less as
you go on getting more and more of Truth?
Lester: Well then, why do you call it a snow-job? Do you
really think it is? Do you still think it is?
Well, I was saying if you came into this,—if the attraction for
this type of thought was that you,—similar to the Charles
Simmons approach, you make a million dollars,—I was
saying that your value structure at the time the million dollars
was the mountain, and that was what you wanted to do, but
when you learned more and more of Truth, of who you really
are and what this is all about, this becomes the secondary
thing, not the primary thing at all, which it was before. This is
the primary thing, your very Being, your knowledge of Self.
Lester: That's the Simmons' teachings that you're applying to
our teachings and it doesn't fit. You got separations going on,
this and that and one versus the other: and this is the main
point I'm trying to get across: you don't lose anything; you
don't lose your body; you don't lose your wealth, but you can
take more of both; you can take more health and more wealth
and be non-attached to both of them and be free with them.
Q: Yeah, I believe that.
Lester: And basically I've been asking, so why don't we go all
the way and get totally free so we have no more troubles, no
more miseries, where we can have anything for the mere
thought of it. Some day we're going to do this, everyone of us;
why not now?
Q: Is desire limitation? Lester: Yes.
Q: Then, with Harry's thought in mind, if you went all the
way, why would you desire anything, such as the million
Q: Which is back to your early teaching to us,—I think we
were all sold on it,—about this thing of desirelessness,
limitlessness, freedom; there seems to be a little conflict.
Lester: Here's the conflict: you don't believe it. Now, if you
had everything, what could you desire? Nothing, right? But do
you have everything?
Q: Sure I do.
Lester: I want to answer Art's question. There's no
contradiction. Right now we want things; we want freedom;
we want total freedom; we want all happiness and no sorrow.
We should have that. We should have all the wealth we want,
even if it's a billion dollars. And we go on and on until we
have everything we want. I'm not against getting the things we
want; I'm for it. When you have everything you want, you're
Q: If you had the realization, why would you desire the
million? Lester: Get it, and then look see. If you had the
realization, why would you have it? See, this is hypothetical

Q: No, I said why would you desire the million, because a
desire is a limitation.
Lester: Do you have everything? Q: No.
Lester: Therefore, you cannot get the answer to it. So I'm
saying get everything first, and then you'll see the answer.
See, you're looking at up there from down here; you're
wanting things here; you're saying, "Well, if I get everything
then I won't want anything." I say you'll never know until you
go there. But I'm trying to coax you to take everything. Fulfill
every desire. That's the way to get to the desireless state.
Q: It used to be we went from the top down, now we're going
from the bottom up, aren't we?
Lester: Yes. I'm trying to get the group to move to the place
where they just think and get whatever they want.
Q: In other words, you don't want to assume knowledge, you
want Knowledge?
Lester: This is knowledge; this is know-how, is it not, to think
and get what you want. That's knowledge. That's the real
Q: It's still assumed knowledge until it's
demonstrated. Lester: Yes, but when you do it, you really
know how.
Q: This is what you're saying, isn't it?
Lester: Yes. Are we practicing that, even in business today?
Are we thinking and having things happen?
Q: Don't have any trouble with parking places any more.
(Laughter.) Lester:No trouble in what?
Q: Parking places.
Lester: Well! That's great! You know why? You can apply that
to anything! Just dare! Raise your sights from parking places
to bigger and bigger and bigger. It's the exact same principle,
Harry, that works for parking places or places to park gold,
your gold. If you can apply that same feeling, that same
principle, to other things, you'll have them also. And what I'm
suggesting is that you do this now. Think and have things
happen the way you think yourself into a parking place. Think
yourself into everything you want.
Q: I think we're all doing this. Working in that direction. It's
the point where you've got to be pretty careful what you think.
I'm very happy and very glad that we were exposed to Jewell
who taught us, or a least I'm speaking for myself now—how
to build a house. Lester: Ken isn't here now; you can say
Q: Our building, our house, they're just our words unless
we're conscious of what we're building, what we're
saying. Lester: Are you troubled with too many things? Now?
Q: I've got a few in my garage I want to get rid of. (Laughter.)
Lester: You're troubled with too much money?
Q: It's not a problem to me.
Lester: Are you troubled with too much of it?
Q: I'm not in that state. The feeling I have now about money
is: so what? I have all I need. Lester: In other words, you're
Q: So to speak, perhaps.
Lester: And I'm trying to get you beyond that contented state.
I'm trying to get you to go further so that you just think and
things happen, immediately. What you don't see is that now
you think that

you must think now and later on the thing happens. And I
want to get you where you think now and it happens now.
Q: Isn't that hallucination?
Lester: Oh no!
Q: How else would you get it? One method of getting is by
being, seeing and feeling in the state that you want to be and
this thing follows. My biggest problem is getting other people
in this.
Lester: Speak for yourself, Bob, get it for yourself. After
you've got it for yourself, then you can help others; you can
show them how they can get it for themselves.
Q: I still want to influence other people's lives. It's still the
same old question I asked you when I first met you, I still
haven't got satisfied within myself.
Lester: The satisfaction for all your questions will come only
when you discover the full answers. I have never answered
any question for you, Bob. I have tried to help you to get the
answers for you.
But I really believe that you're not convinced that you can
have anything for the mere thought of it. You don't even
believe it, leave alone being convinced. If you were convinced
it would be so for you. So, maybe it just boils down to the fact
that we don't want anymore; we're satisfied. Are we?
Q: What bothered me a great deal when you used to talk,
occasionally you'd bring this up, you'd say you can suffer and
yet be beyond it. This to me doesn't make sense; how can you
suffer when you can't suffer? Your true Being can't suffer, yet
you'd say, "Well, I can be hurting and yet I can think
otherwise," this doesn't make sense at all. You can't hurt and
know what you truly are. You can't be limited and know what
you really are.
Lester: The body can hurt—
Q: I don't believe it!
Lester: And I, if I am not the body, will not hurt.

Q: Then your body doesn't hurt! Because there's nothing there.

Lester: O.K., you're right. Now, to really understand these
things, as everything else, you must experience them. You see,
I give out different levels of Beingness in trying to get you to
move up. There are different concepts of the body. The
concept—"I am the body" means I have to suffer every
limitation this body has. If I take on the concept—"I can
control this body," then I can make it be the way I want it to
be. I can make it healthy and I don't feel it. I can move up
further and say, "I am not the body," and even though the body
hurts, I, being not the body, it doesn't bother me. And then the
body is out there and I am here, and the body out there I know
has pain in it, but it doesn't bother me. And then I can move
up from there, too, see? These are all different levels. When I
see that I am not the body, totally, the body can never ever
limit me in any way. So, it's a matter of what level you're
looking at it from. So I started from the bottom: I am the
body; if it hurts, I'm in trouble; I'm in agony and I yell. I move
up; it gets better and better. Go all the way to the top, you're
not the body, you're just Beingness being all Beingness.
Q: And since I'm the limitation, the body being a limitation, if
I refuse limitation then there's no body to be messed with?
Frankly, sometimes I'm afraid of going insane. (Laughter.)
Lester: You couldn't even if you tried. You know too much.
Insanity comes from deep, deep apathy. No one here is in
apathy: no one is near apathy. So, fortunately, we can't go
insane, so that's nothing to worry about.
If you want to go out of your mind, that's possible. You can go
beyond your mind; you don't have to think if you don't want
to. You can move into the realm of knowingness and then you
operate on the spur of the moment, like a hunch, a hunch or an
intuitive feeling, or it just comes to you; you know without
thinking. If you're doing that, you're operating beyond mind.
You're operating in the realm of knowingness, where you
don't have to think. But that's not insanity. That's the other end
of the scale.

Any one else have any questions on Why don't we go all the
way? Why don't we just think and have things happen?
Q: You never have explained what you really mean by going
all the way.
Lester: I did, right at the beginning. Go to the unlimited state;
be totally free; have no more compulsions; have no more
subconscious thoughts operating; every thought you have is a
choice of the moment.
Q: In other words what you're saying you want us to work out
in our own system, in our own way, the thoughts that we have
harbored within us, and this to you is our growth.
Lester: Let go of all the subconscious thoughts.
Q: Well then, where's this money complex coming into this
Lester: I'm just baiting you; that's where it comes in. We all
want money, so I'm putting it up as an incentive, to make you
go further and get a million dollars. You can always drop it if
you don't want it.
Q: To each his own. Maybe that isn't my type of
Lester: O.K., but get to the place where you can demonstrate
anything you want immediately, is what I'm suggesting. And
I'm asking Why don't you want to live this nice, beautiful,
easy way?
Q: I do.
Lester: I say you don't, Harry.
Q: A few pains, here and there.
Lester: Oh. A few here and a few there. You don't have
everything you want, Harry. If you want to see me later, I can
tell you a lot of things that you want that you don't have.
Q: Got that mouse in your pocket again? (Laughter.)
Lester: Well, are there any other things that you would like to
ask? Is there anything that I can help you with on anything?

Q: Can we help each other? I mean, like Art and I.

Lester: Yes.
Q: Or, if we see that the other one needs help is it just us that
needs it?
Lester: You can help the other one to help himself. If you do
things for the other one, you cripple the other one. But we can
help others to help themselves.
Q: Mainly by our change of attitude?
Lester: That's part of it; just changing your attitude toward the
other one helps the other one. The more we see the perfection
of the other one, the more we're supporting the other one
toward that perfection. You change your attitude and the other
one will change; watch it.
Q: To change my attitude, do you mean my basic
understanding that he's part of my consciousness and there's
nothing but perfect consciousness and not think of him as an
individual limited?
Lester: Yes. That's an excellent way to do it. It works, doesn't
Q: It works perfectly, yes. It works instantly.
Lester: People will actually fit our consciousness of them.
Q: Then, if Lillian tells me she wants a bigger house, I've got
to clear my own consciousness to let her fulfill my desires.
Because it's only in my thoughts that I have her considered,
isn't that right? I don't have to consider Lillian; it's only me
that I have to consider, my own happiness, then she is happy.
That is, my own happiness would be to go to the ultimate
Lester: But you gotta separation: Lil and me.
Q: I always had this problem, you know, since I've known
Lester: You didn't have it at times; you would say, "Who is
Lillian but my consciousness?"
Q: Yes. I say that. I just said it a few minutes ago: I've only
got to deal with my own consciousness.
Lester: O.K. That includes Lillian, right?

Q: Yes, that's right.

Q: That includes a bigger house, too. (Laughter.)
Q: I'll have to get rid of a limitation within my own
consciousness. That's all I'm dealing with anyway: I'm not
dealing with Lillian or houses or land, I'm dealing with my
own consciousness. The blocks are within myself or the
unlimitedness is within myself. And, as you said: If I'm an
infinite Being now, I can do it now! I won't have to wait until
I get home.
Lester: Right.
Q: We're going to the moving quick!
Q: By the time you get home, Lil, you're going to be happy
with your house, as is.
Lester: If you accepted it, that same house could be twice the
size, when you went home. It would be so natural you
wouldn't even notice it. You'd just move into a home twice the
size that you left.
Q: Yeah?
Lester: I once took an entire island for myself, Bob. I took an
entire island off the China coast. I'm going back now. I owned
an entire island all myself. And grew the most delicious fruit
trees. Exported the idea to the Mainland. This was in a past
life. I was trying to discover why I've always liked fruit so
much. When I was a child I always preferred fruit to any other
food, and I still do. And it threw me back into a life off the
China coast. I had a whole island and I spent most of my time
in developing bigger and better fruit trees and then exported
the trees to the Mainland.
But I had an entire island. I was king of my domain. You can
have as big a home as you want. Take all you want, but take
the best, is what I'm saying. Take all you want and take the
Well, if we don't have any more questions, I'll call the Session
off. Any more questions?

Q: You want to say anything about healing? Maybe that's one

of the things you thought of in regard to me.
Lester: Well, that's part of what I've been saying: just for the
mere thought we can have anything we want, whether it's
health or wealth. And we should have it instantaneously.
Anything in the way of health or wealth.
Q: Teddi demonstrated that, didn't she?
Lester: With her father. Yes.—What happened? Her father had
a stroke last week and was getting totally paralyzed and when
she got to the hospital, he was mostly paralyzed and he looked
as though he was finished. She went in and put a question to
him, "Do you want to leave, Daddy?" And it shook him up
and he looked at her. And she began to cry and he grabbed
her,—he had one hand that wasn't para lyzed yet,—and he
grabbed her by the hand and he started to cry. And then she
called in all the power that she is and she said the whole room,
everyone in the room, there were others in the room, everyone
got quite: everyone got peaceful. It was like everyone was
meditating and all of a sudden he started to get better and
better. And he undid most of his paralysis. He didn't leave the
hospital because they wanted to keep him there for checking.
But she used it for her father. But she got him to go with her
by her turning on the power. He responded to it.
Q: He's all right now?
Lester: I was so totally accepting of the fact that he is perfect
that when he came to life and sat up and spoke to me I wasn't
even aware of the fact that it had happened. This is how much
accepting of it you are,—until the Doctor came back into the
room, looked at him and then yelled for the oxygen tank and
plopped it over his head, which scared him again. But he
didn't leave; he stayed. When we turn on the power full, it's
Q: Is there a meeting here tonight? (Ken and Vivian came in.)
Lester: Ken Nign has just entered the room, at the tail end.
Where you coming from?

Q: From selling the airplane. This group seems too peaceful.

Did you just chew them out or something?
Lester: I think so. Not "out" but "up," and upward
Q: You gave them something to think about, I can tell,
everyone of them.
Lester: How much can you count? (Talk and laughter.)
Q: Well, she's just taking it from the top, I guess.
Q: No, it was from the tape. (Laughter.)
Lester: There's really no order to them. She's just taking one
she happened to hit.
Q: Seemed like a pretty good group there. I almost felt, "Gee,
that's a better group than we got out here."
Lester: It's probably different, isn't it? You'll recognize yours
when it comes, because we're leaving in first names, now.
They'll only be once a month now, because people were
complaining that there's too much in there; please don't send
so much. So they'll probably average around 12 pages each,
once a month. And that way you can better absorb it, I guess.
But you can see the advantage of having it in black and white
rather than listening to a tape, because when you hit
something that strikes you, you stay with it; whereas if I'm
talking I can go on to something else when you're trying to or
beginning to, get a realization of some thing. By my talking
about something else I pull you off it. And the next time you
go to it, it is more difficult to get the realization. Momentum
is very important in getting realizations. You stay with
something, it becomes clearer and clearer as you stay with it.
But if it starts getting clear and you move off, when you come
back on to it, it's more difficult to get into it again.
And so, I am anti talks, tapes, because of that. I can see it
doing harm in that it doesn't let you stay with something,
because the conversa tion goes on and on and you move off
one thing onto another—to
another without getting a realization of any one of them. I
believe you got much more good out of reading the book The
Ultimate Truth than you did out of listening to me. Listening
to me you get an impetuous to move, but when you get with
the book, you get the real ization. You can stay with those
statements and make them,—make that knowledge, your
knowledge, and that's when it's usable to you, when you make
it your knowledge. (Of course you can listen to the tapes over
and over again-that will help you, too.) So, I'm not in favor of
talking because of that; it doesn't allow you to stay with
anything. And if you are getting a realization, the conversa
tion that goes on after that pulls you away from it and makes
it more difficult to approach it next time. So, I think—I know
the best thing is to use The Ultimate Truth, use the Sessions.
Are you getting things out of the Sessions, Harry?
Realizations that you didn't have before?
Q: I'm getting things for my brother all the time.
Q: I was surprised when I read that the Truth that came in
Sessions, you were teaching that clear back in 1961 or
whatever the date was. I thought,—it sounded like you in the
current era. (Laughter.) It was the same Truth then as it is
Lester: And ever will be. It should never change. What I say
should never be different, should it?
Q: Well, I was hoping it would get easier.
Lester: It's very easy, actually, unless you make it difficult.
Q: I think I mentioned before my brother is a Jehovah's
Witness and you know, they're real keen on this Jehovah-God.
I asked him one time, "Why do we have to name our God?
Would He be mad if we said, 'Bill?'" (Laughter.) But then you
brought out the fact that the root of this, and I haven't seen any
verification of this and I'd like to know a little more about it if
you can tell me that Jehovah-God means the "I Am" God.
Lester: Jehovah means I am.

Q: Where do you get this from? I'd like to know cause I

would like to pass it on.
Lester: It was told to me by a student of the Bible who knew
Q: They're very keen on Hebrew. They're rewriting the whole
Bible. Now why haven't they come up with this? Or maybe
they've come up with this and suppressed it, I don't know.
Lester: You don't have the right one in me when you're talking
about the Bible. I'm not a student of the Bible. Does anyone
else know that, or has anyone heard that Jehovah means I am.
Q: Yes. I have.
Lester: Harry?
Q: Any way, that's our common ground. Any time he says
"Jehovah" I say "Ahem!" (Laughter.)
Lester: There is one sentence in the entire Bible that is
capitalized. Do you know what it is?
Q: I AM.
Lester: "I AM THAT I AM." There's one other sentence that
gives the way: "Be still and know that I am God." Those two
sentences are the essence—
Q: "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father," which is
another truth, too.
Lester: Yes, or better: "I and the Father are one." "Know ye
not that
ye are gods?"
Q: How do you see all these discourses of this type? Of
course, I guess you base it on what your motive is for
Lester: Everyone is seeking the exact, same, thing in his every
act. Every being is seeking exactly that which we are seeking
in every thing he is doing. Can you see it now?

Q: Oh yes.
Lester: I think we all ought to see that: that we're all seeking
the exact same thing. The world calls it the ultimate
happiness. We call it the "I that I am." But we say that the "I
that I am" is the ultimate happiness. Discover your Self and
you discover the greatest happi ness and you get the greatest
contentment. It's a satiation that is all satisfying.
Lester: We still hold onto the beliefs that we have extreme
limita tions. This is the problem. And we don't have enough
incentive to let go of them. As I said, there's no reason why
anyone here shouldn't have everything he or she wants for the
mere thought of it, instanta- neously,—that some day you're
going to do this. Why not now? And the reason is, I say, that
you don't believe it. You hold onto the oppo site: that you can't
do it, and that's the only reason why you can't.
Q: Well maybe it's because things are going easier, things
don't matter and then we don't go ahead.
Lester: Yes, the incentive, the drive, is far less now than it
was when we were unhappy.
Q: If it's much less then we should be more peaceful.
Lester: Well, aren't we?
Q: Yes.
Lester: But what I'm trying to do is to get you to the total
peace. Until you get there, there will always be annoyances in
life. Even though it's much better now, it should be best.
Q: Got one more step to go.
Lester: What do we need to go it? This is the big thing: What
do we need to go it?
Q: We need to believe that we can.
Lester: I think we need to recognize that we don't believe that
we can, first. We're still holding onto tremendous non-
acceptance of the idea that we are unlimited. When you see
first that you really don't accept it,—if you confront that, you
can let go of that better.

Q: If we rushed into that as fast as we rush into things that

cause us problems, we wouldn't have any.
Q: This evening when you spoke of Teddi asking you to be
with her when we went to see her father,—what kind of
thoughts do you think when you think of her father?
Lester: I know he is infinite, all-perfect, and to the degree I
know that, to that degree I support him in his perception of his
Q: In theory we are supposed to do this with everybody we
see, isn't this true?
Lester: Yes.
Q: Cause we're only talking about ourself. Lester: Yes.
Q: But if it is a theory, a theory is something that is abstract
and is out here by itself. It doesn't necessarily mean a belief.
Lester: A theory is not a law; it is supposition. After it is
proven, a theory becomes a law.
Q: This gives us our freedom then, to know that whoever we
meet is the same person.
Lester: There's nothing out there but our consciousness.
Q: Why did you use the word "our"?
Lester: Your, is that better?
Q: That makes me feel good. (Laughter.)
Lester: Because we are one, that's why I used the word "our."
There's only once consciousness and we are it.
0: What I was trying to get away from is the idea of having to
overcome another consciousness. I don't have anything to
Lester: You're right; you don't overcome. You see what is.

Q: That's right. There's nothing else.

Lester: Right. There's nothing else but what is. And what is is
whole, perfect, grand, and glorious, and delightful, and exotic
and ecstatic and everything good you can think of.
Q: He's getting to be quite a sale man, isn't he? All those
Lester: I don't know. Am I? You see, if you people would do
these things: just think and have things happen, then I could
do it to. We could all do it together. If you could accept it—
Q: Don't wait for us, Lester.
Lester: I didn't, but I came back to you, and this time I want
you to come with me.
Q: Talking about demonstration, isn't it very helpful many
times for the Guru to point out things or perhaps, doing some
act. Lester: You want an act of magic? If I performed acts of
magic it would help you none. I don't think any,—Art, have
you seen any acts of magic?
Q: That isn't what I said; those are your words.
Lester: Demonstration, all right? I'll come down to the word
demonstration. I think Art has seen some demonstration. Ken,
you've seen a demonstration. I don't know whether you still
accept it. He saw it, and then he said it wasn't, see, this is what
usually happens. How do you feel about it now?
Q: I've seen a year and a half of demonstration, friends.
Lester: But remember the machine, the duplicator that wasn't
working? At Caltex.
Q: Oh, yeah.
Lester: Did it happen, or didn't it happen? Now as far as
you're concerned?

Q: I'm sure that it did. It couldn't, but it did. And not only I
convinced, but the lady and the repairman that they called out
to fix the cotton-picking machine was convinced. Lester: I
went to Caltex with Ken and I wanted to get copies from one
of the books in their library. The duplicating machine was out
of order; there was a piece of tape over the money part so you
couldn't put money in; there was a big sign: OUT OF
ORDER, and when I asked the girl for change, for dimes, to
put into it to try it, she didn't want to give it to me; she
resisted. She said "It's been out of order and they tried to fix
it." And I said,—I had to coax her into giving me change,—
and I said, "It's only a dime," that's all they charge per copy. I
went over to the machine and I took the tape off the money
thing and I got, I think it was two or three copies of pages I
wanted and I said to Ken, "It would be interesting to see what
happens now I don't need it any more." And I put another
dime in and it came out black and just then the head of the
library came over and said, "Oh, it's been that way for some
time. We've been waiting for the repair man to come in and fix
it." So it went right back to the way it was. But when I wanted
the copies made, the machine worked.
Q: That's magic.
Lester: That's magic. And yet it's just a mere effortless
thought that does these things. But it didn't help Ken any, did
Q: I said, "Coincidence."
Lester: Yes, coincidence. Then I gave him a demonstration of
harmony on a trip we took. I just said, "It is," I let go and I let
it be. We got the nicest plane out, what was it,—United Air
Lines, much nicer than the commuter's plane. We went up to
San Francisco. I went into a telephone booth and in no time
flat I had appointments with everyone at different times of the
day; we didn't rush; we made every appointment just on time.
When we wanted to eat, we had time to eat.

Q: And the restaurant was just right at the corner.

Lester: Yes, just where we wanted it. And one of the prime
purposes was to see their methods of doing it and I wanted the
best one for last and at the last visit I forgot to ask if we could
see their facilities and we got up to leave and the man said to
us, "Would you like to see our facilities?" Remember that?
Q: Yes.
Lester: And we accomplished an awful lot of work and we
were finished about three or three-thirty in the afternoon.
Everything fell perfectly into line. We were back in Los
Angeles, about five-thirty or so, and we were in a restaurant
downtown in L.A. But it was a harmonious day; everything
fell right into line perfectly. And this is the way life should be
all the time. But it was a demonstration. I knew it was a
demonstration. It just came to me to let it be, for Ken's sake at
the machine and...
Q: We hit transformer winding divisions of, like Western
Electric, well, there's one key man probably in the whole plant
that we could talk with and his schedule was so that it fit just
exactly in our schedule and he was the only one in probably
the whole plant who could answer all the questions and told
us what we needed to know. And this went not only for
Westinghouse but three or four other different plants and we
got the key man, the only man who was really qualified to
answer all the questions we had and yet give us a quotation on
it and even to extent of getting a new car on loan then getting
it back and stepping out of the car and walking up to the ticket
booth and picking up the ticket.
Lester: Everything was just perfect, right?
Q: Yeah.
Lester: All right now, the point I'm trying to make is I don't
think it helped Ken in his realizations one bit.
Q: That's just the way it ought to be, see? There's no question
about the right or wrong of it; it was just beautiful.

Lester: But that's the way life should be all the time, every
day. Everything should fall perfectly into line.
Q: Yeah, but when you get there you reach your plateau and
you don't want to go on. Is that the place we're going to be?
Lester: You don't want to go on?
Q: When you get to the top, you're up there.
Q: When you're having all these things fall into line...
Lester: It's delightful! It's perfect! It's marvelous!
Q: You've arrived, then.
Lester: Oh yeah. When you're consciously letting everything
be perfect, you're there.
Lester: I knew some men who used to live on Central Park
South in New York; they were Christian Scientists, who just
sat back, let men come to them, let men make millions of
dollars for them and they hardly ever worked; they only put in
a few hours a week talking to these men.
Q: What kind of work did they do?
Lester: No work.
Q: Enjoyable type.
Lester: But that doesn't make millions.
Q: That's what I meant; you're giving up something greater
for lesser.
Lester: Giving up something greater for lesser? That's the
second time you've said that, Harry.
Q: You've said that.
Lester: No! Give up lesser for the greater. You've got it
backwards. You don't give up the greater for the lesser.
Q: Sure you do.

Q: Only if you're stupid.

Q: Weren't these men bored to death.
Lester: No. No.
Q: Not when they had an apartment next to his. (Much
Lester: That was 40 West 59th Street was the address.
Q: Write that address down, Bob, in case you get to go to
New York. (More laughter.)
Q: All the accomplishment goes on, all the work goes on, but
it's our change in attitude, isn't it? We can still help people; we
can still help orphanages, or we can still help the person next
door, or...
Q: Or yourself.
Lester: Sure. As I said, I'm trying in the real estate business;
I'm in a big research and development project; and it might be,
could be, the greatest project in the world. I'm not up on cloud
nine, am I? And as they say, I'm not scratching for money.
Q: We'll take up an offering whenever you reach that state.
Q: There's one thing about higher Truth; it's free. It's worth
more than any other truth you can get but the Masters can't
charge for it.
Lester: But, they can give you a charge.

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