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Black oil model vs.
Compositional model?
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<a href="http://w w w .eng-tips.c ginsoakedboy (Mechanical)
(OP)
10 Jun 08 17:55

Can anyone please explain what do

the following terms mean?

1. Black oil model (or modeling)

2. Compositional model

What are the differences between the

two? Is one better than the other in
any respect?

FYI:
I am trying to formulate an approach to
analyze a portion of subsea production
ADVERTISEMENT

system in OLGA. I don't have any particular

composition of produced fluid to consider,
rather I'd like to generate a
"representative" model.

RE: Black oil model vs.

Compositional model?
ginsoakedboy (Mechanical)
(OP)
12 Jun 08 16:10
bump ...
RE: Black oil model vs.
Compositional model?
BigInch (Petroleum) 14 Jun 08 17:06
Always model only enough to get the
answers you need.

I'd use black oil if you don't have to track

composition for any reason, such as when
batching one field's oil production behind
another field's, each going to different
delivery points or if flows must be blended
to achive a manageable viscosity of two
different oils etc. Compositional is usually a
whole lot more input (error) intensive,
slower to run and you get a whole lot more
answers than you need to actually get the
ones you're looking for.

Besides, you'll be lucky to get the

compositional data you need anyway.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

"What gets us into trouble is not what we

don't know, its what we know for sure" -
Mark Twain

RE: Black oil model vs.

Compositional model?
ColourfulFigsnDiags (Chemical) 18 Jun
08 08:21
Yes and No BigInch, a compostional model
(if you have the composition data available)
will generally provide more accurate results
for PVT data than a black oil model based
on a defined GOR and WC.

If you have compositional data available, I

would use it. PVTSim or another simulator
will produce a much better and more
accurate phase envelope and fluid
properties with it.

But judging by your FYI, use the black oil

model, as trying to develop your own
generic composition can be tedious.

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RE: Black oil model vs.

Compositional model?
BigInch (Petroleum) 18 Jun 08 13:10
Well of course, but the nature of the
question suggests that the accuracy is not
needed at this time. If there was one thing
that irritated me to no end about hydraulic
consultants is that there was always
somebody ready to cost me time and
money to build a model "so accurate" and
so detailed with each 10 ft length of wall
thickness change and all the bends and
fittings in each pump stations on 1500
miles of pipeline to arrive at answers that
wern't any more accurate than 10%
anyway.

I only suggest to save your time and your

client's time for things that are really
needed.
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

"What gets us into trouble is not what we

don't know, its what we know for sure" -
Mark Twain

RE: Black oil model vs.

Compositional model?
ginsoakedboy (Mechanical)
(OP)
18 Jun 08 14:03
Thanks for your answers, BigInch and
ColourfulFigsnDiags. I also think it would
be better to start with the black oil model. I
am planning to use field specific
compositions once the OLGA model is
shown to be working.

Just for my curiosity, is there anything like

a generic composition for GoM? Am I even
justified in looking for a generic fluid be it
any region?

RE: Black oil model vs.

Compositional model?
BigInch (Petroleum) 18 Jun 08 14:26
I think the answer really depends on what
you are simulating, specialized production
process, treatment or transportation. I
would certainly agree that in some cases
you would need a compositional model as I
have explained above, but I would also
think those cases where you do really need
a compositional model will more rare than
common. In other words, really not
necessary to have a template already
available.

There is a lot of information about various

crudes from around the world, but the info
is more physical than chemical in nature
and lists such things as SG-API gravity,
vapor pressure, viscosity and maybe a heat
capacity. The rest you must usually
request from the producer and its not often
they have it either.

The most important variations are SG,

viscosity with at least two temperatures
and vapor pressure for transportation
analysis. For heavies, you'll need the heat
transfer data, but most of the time, I just
have to assume something
reasonable. The producers just don't know
much more in many cases.

The only times I have ever had to use

compositional models was for a very large
gas gathering system connecting many
fields with high CO2 and up to 40% N2
content and or fields H2S in the gas and
they had to be very carefully blended with
better streams before putting it into the
main interstate transmission line. Still we
ignored the condensates.

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

"What gets us into trouble is not what we

don't know, its what we know for sure" -
Mark Twain

RE: Black oil model vs.

Compositional model?
ColourfulFigsnDiags (Chemical) 19 Jun
08 03:12
I hear what you are saying BigInch, but I
have just come off comparing a black oil
model and a compositional model in some
well simulations, and the difference can be
quite large.

In this instance the thermodynamic

differences between the two models were
negligible, but the hydraulic differences
were, in some cases, huge, with WHFPs
differing by upwards of 40 bar between the
two models. Since most of the pressure
drop in wells is due to the hydrostatic
component, in this case the difference
between the two models was the phase
envelope. This is not a particullarly heavy
oil, and we did the same analysis for some
of our gas producers, and even then the
results were generally less different, but
still significant for us to abandon the black
oil model data and rely on the
compositional model data obtained via
crude assays and other reservoir samples.

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RE: Black oil model vs.
Compositional model?
BigInch (Petroleum) 19 Jun 08 10:49
That's why I said, unless you have reason
to do it. A deep well could certainly qualify
whereas a pipeline transport case would
most likely not, but there are also qualifiers
that go with that too.

Its really just one of my biggest pet

peeves, building models way too detailed
for the answers needed. Didn't mean to
make an issue out of it. I'll shut up now.

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

"What gets us into trouble is not what we

don't know, its what we know for sure" -
Mark Twain