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HenningLohner Interview with lannis
Aha Tonstudio
P.O. Box 10 01 27
5000 Cologne 1
Xenakis
FederalRepublic of Germany
Lohner 51
or, whether you are happy with something that is
unsophisticated. As far as pedagogyis concerned,
these unsophisticated instruments would be harm-
ful: everyone would get used to something that is
simple, like pop music. And there's nothing more
unsophisticated than pop music. But to add special-
purpose machines like this to the UPIC: that's an-
other realm.
Lohner: And what about constantly varying a wave-
form? With acoustical instruments the waveforms
are subject to constant change, which is especially
noticeable in different registers. In UPIC these
changes don't exist, and many people insist that this
should be innate also to electronic instruments for
musical reasons. Is there a way of foreseeing (ran-
dom) variations of intensities, pitches, dynamics,
and other sound parameters?And will it be possible
on this machine? elasticity of the materials used to make the instru-
Xenakis: This is very important aesthetically. Two ments. Given the large waves, the rate of air flow,
things were brought up in this observation: on the and the dimension of the tube as air passes by the
one hand, different drawingsof waves sometimes little tongue of the pipe, things are simplified with
produce the same effect. This is well known. The increasing speed due to elastic inertia. On the other
ear doesn't always hear the differencesbetween hand, there's also an effect on the ear. In listening,
graphisms (the contour of the waveforms);it only the inner ear simplifies the complexity of the per-
distinguishes different classes of waveforms. It ceived effects. Forthis phenomenon we don't know
would be interesting to examine this. As for the very well how the ear functions. We don't have
variation of a waveform or a dynamic envelope, enough technology to test these types of things to
you'd need to have special transformationfunc- see if there is a continuity. Does the ear respond
tions, maybe algebraic or other types with special equally to the high notes as it does to the low notes?
keys on the drawing tablet itself. This could happen And does it converge if there's a variation in timbre?
by varying the same function, or it could vary sto- Anyway, since the ear is not linear, there is cer-
chastically. Forexample, presently we can do this tainly variation in the perceived spectrum or in the
by following the same curve that you draw to de- perceived waveform. Both are equivalent inasmuch
scribe different envelopes. So graphicallywe have as the waveform is a function of time and the spec-
certain ways of achieving variation. trum is the series of Fouriercomponents.
On the other hand, if you want to simulate musi- If you wanted to simulate traditional instruments
cal instruments, you have to see what the wave- you would have to obtain instruments, study them,
forms correspondto. Forinstance, if you take the record them, class them by sufficiently differenti-
low G tone on an organ, the waveform has a certain ated registers, and then use them as if they were
complexity. As you go towards the higher pitches, specific waveforms in various frequencies and in-
the complexity diminishes until it becomes almost tensities. UPIC certainly wasn't made to simulate
a sine wave, and this you hear. So when you start existing instruments.
with a given timbre of an organ pipe, the more you Lohner: You have written two pieces for the UPIC
gravitate toward the higher notes, it converges to- machine so far?
ward the sound of a little flute. Xenakis: Yes, I do too much administration for the
On the one hand, this is valid for all of the instru- UPIC system, so I don't have that much time to
mental sounds and is due also-probably-to the work on it. I hope to compose more with UPIC in
Lohner 53
Lohner: Nevertheless you are looking for ways to also depends on organizations. Now it's too late
supersede that condition. anyway because you have to do those things in a
Xenakis: Yes, because this is the way one lives. continuous way during a whole lifetime.
That is, not only to do what one does, but also to As I see it, music is a domain where the most
try and understandwhy and where and what the profoundquestions of philosophy, thought, behav-
targets or the aims are, if there are any. ior, and the theory of the universe ought to pose
Lohner: For a composer who has consequently themselves to the composer. The role of the musi-
gone his own way, what is your motivation to write cian must be this fundamental research: to find
music? answers to phenomena we don't understand,and to
Xenakis: Well, I write music because it's the way enlarge our powers of conception and action. So it is
for me to feel less miserable. I would have liked to a perpetual exploration.
do other things at the same time, like scientific re- Lohner: "Perpetual"is the word I'd like to pick
search or architectural research and so on, but it's up; isn't that quite in line with Parmenides,whom
very difficult to put them together in 24 hours. It you've often cited?
Lohner 55