Loving relationships with devotees

Verse: Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.12.15 Speaker: HH Varshana Swami Location: ISKCON New Vrindaban
agnau gurav atmani ca sarva-bhutesv adhoksajam bhutaih sva-dhamabhih pasyed apravistam
pravistavat
TRANSLATION: One should realize that in the fire, in the spiritual master, in one’s self and in all living
entities-in all circumstances and conditions-the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Visnu, has
simultaneously entered and not entered. He is situated externally and internally as the full controller
of everything.
PURPORT: Realization of the Supreme Personality of Godhead’s omnipresence is the perfect realization
of the Absolute Truth to be attained through the study of the Vedic literatures. As stated in the
Brahma-samhita (5.35), andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham: the Lord is situated within the
universe, within the heart of every living entity and also within the atom. We should understand that
whenever the Supreme Personality of Godhead is present, He is present with all His paraphernalia,
including His name, form, associates and servants. The living entity is part and parcel of the Supreme
Personality of Godhead, and thus one should understand that since the Supreme Lord has entered the
atom, the living entities are also there. One must accept the inconceivable quality of the Supreme
Personality of Godhead, for no one can understand from the material point of view how the Lord is all-
pervasive and yet is situated in His own abode, Goloka Vrndavana. This realization is possible if one
strictly follows the regulative principles of asrama (brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa).
Srila Madhvacarya says in this regard:
The Supreme Personality of Godhead, in His original form, has not entered everything (apravistah), but
in His impersonal form He has entered (pravistah). Thus He has entered and not entered
simultaneously. This is also explained in Bhagavad-gita (9.4), wherein the Lord says:
“By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in
them.” The Lord can defy Himself. Thus there is variety in unity (ekatvam bahutvam).
(invocatory prayers)
Narada Muni is continuing his instructions to Yudhisthira Maharaja and has just completed descriptions
of the varnas and asramas. In the previous verse, he told how important the rules and regulations are
for the twice born, the brahmanas, ksatriyas, and vaisyas, who should live in the gurukula.
The word kula, has two different meanings, it can mean a place and it can also mean family. So this
Kuli Mela, the Gurukulis are having a reunion here in New Vrindaban, we can also appreciate that kula
means family. Srila Prabhupada established a very loving family.
Krsna consciousness was taught at the dawn of creation by Krsna to Brahma. And whenever and
wherever there is a decline in that original culture of Krsna consciousness, the Lord either descends
personally or sends his representative to reestablish that culture of loving relationships which is Krsna
consciousness. In the Kali-yuga when everything deteriorates to the ultimate extent, the Lord came in
his original feature to bestow upon this world the pure love of the inhabitants of Vrindavan to everyone
and anyone without discrimination.
The Lord, in each and every age, teaches the yuga dharma, the process of self realization, which is
appropriate and practical for that age. In Kali-yuga, the Lord teaches harinam-sankirtana as the yuga
dharma. And he also teaches by his precepts, pastimes and personal example how to practice chanting
of the holy mane in one’s life. Lord Caitanya revealed in this world the culture of the spiritual world.
And Srila Prabhupada taught by his example and precepts the culture of loving relationships which is
necessary to nurture love and trust.
We find that when devotees leave this Krsna consciousness movement, it’s never because they’re
seeking a higher philosophy or parampara. That doesn’t exist. Some leave because they are
overwhelmed by material attraction, others as they didn’t find sufficient loving relationships to fulfill
their souls need for loving relationships. The soul has that need. And in our neophyte stage, we cannot
feel the love of Krsna sufficiently to satisfy our needs. But we can feel the love of Krsna flowing
through the devotees, manifesting in our relationships. This is not just some sentimental or optional
aspect of Krsna consciousness. It is scientific. Srila Prabhupada conveyed this love to the devotees in
ways which simply by remembering can sustain us through life.
For example, during gurupuja, Srila Prabhupada would insist on handing out cookies, both the to
children and adults. We know that taking, offering and receiving prasad is more than an exchange of
foodstuffs, it’s a way of expressing love.
Here in New Vrindaban, when the brahmacaris at the Old Vrindaban farm were so hopeful that Srila
Prabhupada would visit there again, he hadn’t been since 1969, the authorities were not in favour. So
then Srila Radhanath Swami presented a black and white picture of Radha Vrindavananath to Srila
Prabhupada. He was relishing their beauty and asked where they were and if he could go. The
authorities were trying to discourage him saying no the road is so bad, but he insisted and it fixed that
he was to visit the next day. When the truck reached the point in the road where Srila Prabhupada
would walk and chant japa, [missing section] . . . . Then Srila Prabhupada asked for the cookies and
the devotees realised that they forgot to bring them.
This was just unacceptable that Srila Prabhupada could not show his love by not handing out cookies in
gurupuja. So Radhanath Swami very quickly took the Deities’ plates with the offerings from mangala
arati and tried to offer these to Srila Prabhupada as mahaprasadam. But the secretary said, “No you
can’t offer this to Srila Prabhupada.” Then Maharaja snuck around the other side where there was a
more lenient servant and placed the tray there. Then Srila Prabhupada, like a little child, he had very
small silver spoons, began distributing prasadam to the devotees as they lined up. He gave spoonfuls of
sweet rice and other preparations that Srila Prabhupada would taste and then distribute to the
devotee. When Srila Prabhupada came to the gulabjamun, he bit into one and it popped and the juice
sprayed all over the devotees. When he sampled the second one the same event repeated itself. The
devotees were so ecstatic, and Srila Prabhupada was beaming like a little child as he was spoon
feeding.
That’s how he began this movement. One who hasn’t directly perceived his mercy have a hard to
understand his mercy. Like Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers in India appreciate him but have difficulty
understanding the deep mercy, compassion, and love that inspired him to come to America to the
hippies who were the very antithesis of culture and spoon feed them Krsna consciousness. And since we
never felt such concern and love in our lives from family or society, we were inspired to open our
hearts to Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. And he very much wanted that we give this to others in a sense
of a society, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, to create and protect, nourish and
reveal the kind of love which Srila Prabhupada revealed, and Lord Caitanya revealed in his own lila.
Without experiencing this love of Krsna coming through the relationship with devotees it will hard to
sustain our Krsna consciousness in lifetime or more. For most of us, self realisation will be an entire
lifetime or more. We have so many examples in Srila Prabhupada’s life of his deep concern
emotionally, physically, spiritually-in every way. Not that that was meant to reinforce the bodily
concept, it was meant to reinforce the love of the devotees. Because Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to
reveal and distribute the love of the inhabitants of Vrindavan. That experiences begins here and now in
loving relationships of those associated with us, in whose presence Krsna has placed us.
Once near the end of his pastimes, Srila Prabhupada was being carried on a chair to the balcony for
massage in the sunlight in Vrindavan. One devotee was carrying in front, one from behind. At this
point, Srila Prabhupada’s body was so frail and emaciated that the doctors said any normal person
would be wracked with severe pain and unable to function. As they were going up, one devotee hurt
himself as the chair hit a boil on his leg. When they reached the roof, Srila Prabhupada asked, “What
happened, I heard you felt some pain?” And Srila Prabhupada was persistent, so the devotee told him
that the boil was bumped on the chair. Srila Prabhupada, just at the point he was concluding his lilas,
took time out to explain to that devotee how to care medically for that boil and asked him how it was
healing every day.
Another time when Tamal Krsna Maharaja was in the hospital, Srila Prabhupada came to visit him. Once
in gurupuja when all the devotees were worshipping him with prayers and garlands and puja, he
noticed one devotees’ leg injury and asked for pen and paper and wrote down how to care for that
infection.
In a place where there are such loving relationships with devotees, there the spiritual world is
revealed. Srila Prabhupada was insistent we study and read his books, but we also need a living
example of what the books say. Caitanya-caritamrta is all about the loving exchanges of devotees.
Sadhana siddhas and nitya siddhas are interacting with another which will attract the world and sustain
the lives of the devotees in the difficult journey back to Godhead. When Sudama Vipra was asked by
his wife to go to see Krsna, she was concerned as her husband was so emaciated and could barely
maintain his life. “You are so poor but you are friends with Sri Krsna, go ask for something.” He was
very reluctant, but as a service to his wife he left for Dvaraka with a little bag of chipped rice. When
he reached Dvaraka, Krsna got down from his bed and began worshipping Sudama, and Rukmini was
fanning him.
Later Krsna and Sudama had a discussion about their time in gurukula. “Remember how we had gone to
collect wood for the ashram and were stuck in the forest during the storm? We had to spend the night
there.” In the morning, Sandipani Muni personally went to the forest to search for his lost Gurukulis.
When he found them he said, “You have suffered so much for my sake, offering your body, the greatest
asset, in the service of your spiritual master.” He blessed them that all their desires would be fulfilled
and their mantras would never lose meaning.
Then Sudama told Krsna that actually you were the cause of the storm because you wanted that we
reveal to the world the nature and importance of guru-bhakti.
Recently we heard that Manu Prabhu phoned New Vrindaban to come and do the service of renovating
Srila Prabhupada’s Palace with the bus tour members. And actually if you examine the history of Srila
Prabhupada’s Palace, it has been the source of much of the success here. I’m not talking of just the
external building, but the principle of placing Srila Prabhupada in the centre. Srila Prabhupada said
Krsna consciousness is to place Krsna in the centre.
When Brahma looked down and heard that Krsna had defeated Aghasura who was terrorizing the
universe, he saw Krsna was having a picnic on the bank of the Yamuna with his cowherd boyfriends. He
looked like a whorl of the lotus as he was surrounded by his eight intimate sakhas who were each
surrounded by their eight sakhas. It looked like a lotus with billions of petals and each and every
cowherd boy was experiencing, not just feeling but experiencing, that Krsna is looking just at me, he’s
smiling and speaking and showing pleasure just with me. Even though all the other boys are better than
me, Krsna is so much loving to me.
It was actually true that Krsna was revealing his special love and features of himself just appropriate to
each and every cowherd boy’s love. This is Krsna. We can reveal certain aspects of ourselves, but Krsna
can actually change his form to reciprocate the needs for love in the hearts of his devotees. Srila
Prabhupada said this Krsna consciousness movement is an effort to keep Krsna in the centre, not just
the rhetoric, but actually living our lives in such as way that Krsna will be pleased. Krsna’s highest
aspiration is to serve his servants; he has so much love for them, but he has difficulty to do that as
they don’t like to accept service. So he is most pleased when his servants serve one another.
So Srila Prabhupada’s Palace began as a concept that really Srila Prabhupada should be in the centre of
all our relationships and talks, and before building a temple for Radha Vrindavan Chandra, we should
first build a residence for Srila Prabhupada. When Srila Prabhupada visited in 1974 and
1976, he expressed his pleasure at this endeavour, and when he asked if Radha Vrindavan Chandra
would be installed there, the devotees said, “No Srila Prabhupada, you will be here.” Srila Prabhupada
said this is proper, he expressed appreciation of the devotees understanding the importance and also
said Krsna will protect you. Of course the living entity always has the free will to go outside, but Srila
Prabhupada was exchanging the love the devotees have for him.
That true appreciation of Srila Prabhupada’s greatness is possible by the mercy of Krsna, a gift from
Krsna in how we surrender to his instruction and mission. In the end of his lila Srila Prabhupada said the
love we have for him will be shown how we cooperate with each other to push this movement on.
That means more than just working together on some project we agree on, as this is the Kali-yuga and
this material world is a realm of maya. Maya is illusion personified, and Kali is hypocrisy, they will
exploit any weakens to incite disunity. As this movement cannot be checked from outside, it can only
be checked from weakness within.
In the Srimad-Bhagavatam there’s an example what this kind of cooperation means. Indra was was
feeling so insecure when Prthu Maharaja had done 99 asvamedha yajnas as only Indra had done 100. So
when Prthu Maharaja was doing the hundredth yajna, Indra, in various guises of a sadhu, kept stealing
the horse and running away with it. Prthu’s son, Vijitasva, wanted to kill Indra as he kept appearing as
a sadhu but acting as a thief and impeding the yajna. Srila Prabhupada said this is the beginning of
those who pose as Vaisnavas but are actually demons. This happened many times, Indra stole the hors
and hid, and Prthu Maharaja kept telling his son don’t kill him, he’s a great personality.
Finally Lord Visnu himself appeared in the sacrificial fire and personally instructed Prthu Maharaja that
since this performance of the hundredth yajna is causing conflict and friction between the devotees,
just stop it and be content with 99 as indra can’t tolerate being equal or surpassed.
If we have some noble aspiration in service, but if it’s creating disunity and disharmony among
devotees, then the higher principle is cooperation among devotees and to adjust to what nurtures that.
This implies encouraging the devotees. This kind of culture will attract people to Krsna consciousness.
Srila Prabhupada not only taught and personified surrender to guru and Krsna, but he actually inspired
an atmosphere and culture that would inspire others to surrender, transcend egoistic barriers to unity
and love. He also gave warnings of what he had seen in the institute of his spiritual master. And most
of the things that incite quarrel and disunity have nothing to do with the next 10,000 years of the
golden age, how to propagate Krsna consciousness. Most conflicts are just due to individual relative
considerations how things should be done, which are irrelevant in the larger picture. All can be solved
by following: rnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna amanina manadena kirtaniyah sada harih
With a little bit of additional support from: na dhanam na janam na sundarim kavitam va jagad-isa
kamaye mama janmani janmanisvare bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki tvayi
By taking the humble position, conflicts can be resolved, management simplified and a preacher
fortified. There’s a story which may or may not be historical, it may be myth, but it’s archetypal and
therefore helpful in understanding how our movement can experience regeneration even in the midst
of difficulties. The Rabbi’s Gift has been mentioned several times in New Vrindaban as appropriate:
A monastery which used to be one of a flourishing series, but due to many reasons had fallen into hard
times was now was the residence of just five elders in their seventies. All the sister branches had
closed down. Due to their lives of austerity, they were intuitive and knew when a Rabbi was visiting an
adjoining hermitage. They approached the Abbot that we should visit the Rabbi and see if he can give
any advice on what appeared to be a dying order.
So the Abbot went and the Rabbi received him with great affection. The Abbot revealed his heart that
the monastery appeared to be a dying order, no one was joining. The rabbi said yes, the spirit has gone
out in my town also. They wept together, they read sastra, and commiserated with each other. The
next morning as the Abbot was about to leave he asked the Rabbi if he had any advice for the
monastery. The Rabbi’s reply was, “All I can say is that the Messiah is amongst you.”
As the Abbot left he was pondering this and when he returned he informed the other monks of the
Rabbi’s cryptic message. So they began contemplating that does this mean that one of the monks is the
Messiah? “Well, maybe it is Father Abbot who has demonstrated a lifetime of dedication, or maybe it is
Brother Thomas who is a man of light. It wouldn’t be Eldred, but come to think of it, he’s always right.
Sometimes very right. And certainly it wouldn’t be Peter, he’s so passive, but whenever you need
something he’s always there as if by magic. And certainly it’s not me.”
So thus contemplating the message, the monks began in time treating one another with much more
respect and love than previously. And since the monastery was in a beautiful location, people would
come there sightseeing, and could sense this aura of love which they hadn’t experienced before so they
began interacting and discussing with the monks. Some younger men began joining and soon the
monastery was as vibrant a centre as it had been before, all due to the Rabbi’s gift.
In Srimad-Bhagavatam there is the pastime of the Pracetas. When the Pracetas first left home for
tapasya prior to marriage, they came to a beautiful lake. Lord Siva emerged from it and told them, “By
following varnarsrama, one can become Lord Brahma. You boys are already doing devotional service
which is higher. Since you want to please the Lord, I’ll teach you a prayer to satisfy him.” So he taught
them the prayer, and they chanted till Lord Visnu appeared to them and told them that he was happy
to appear before them as he was so pleased that they were serving together and cooperating in a
friendly relationship.
So Srila Prabhupada not only taught that, but he established a culture of Vaisnava relationships which
is very conducive to nurturing our spiritual lives and attracting others to come and join and surrender
to his movement.
When devotees come together for festivals or prasadam, or service, the goal should be to keep Krsna in
the centre, which means Srila Prabhupada is in the centre, which means Srila Prabhupada is pleased.
He made it clear.
During this festival when the Gurukulis have their Kuli Mela and reunion, we can contemplate how kula
also means family. Srila Prabhupada established a loving family meant to serve in loving relationships.
We heard how they would have appreciated the discipline they receive in Gurukula if it had been with
accompanied with affection.
The affection of Srila Prabhupada and the love of Krsna, which we can’t perceive in our conditioned
state, can be perceived in the loving relationships of devotees. Srila Prabhupada established this
movements as a loving family with the most loving father. Our glorification of him will be complete
when we serve his mission by revealing and nurturing this kind of loving relationships. This will not only
carry forward the legacy of love but also substantiate what he taught and continue to attract other
souls to join this movement.
Thank you very much. Are there any questions or comments?
Kaliyaphani Das: [unclear] The reason that it’s often a mess is we hate ourselves, if that is the case is
there something such a person needs to do first before becoming Krsna conscious?
Maharaja: In addition, but with that he has to learn the art of forgiveness. Often it’s hard to forgive
oneself, but as Saint Francis says, “Let me not seek so much to be forgiven but to forgive.” Then we
can forgive ourselves, as we see in Krsna forgiving Indra. Indra did one of the most heinous offences
trying to kill Krsna and the Brijbasis and Krsna forgave him. By bathing in that kunda where Indra was
forgiven for his offence, one can make progress in also becoming forgiving. We cannot expect to be
forgiven by Krsna for our unlimited lifetimes of offences if we don’t forgive others. If we surrender
sincerely like Indra, then Krsna forgives, but we also have to forgive.
We should not continue to sin, but if we surrender and he forgives then we should forgive both others
and ourselves. Not that we have to forgive ourselves before joining, but forgiveness is an essential
aspect of Krsna consciousness. We have to advance in Krsna consciousness and to perfect both types of
forgiveness should be integral in our joining and practicing Krsna consciousness.
Kamalavati DD: Could you kindly say that whole prayer by St. Francis, it’s really nice.
Maharaja: Srila Prabhupada said that St Francis is a Vaisnava:
Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace; where there is hatred, let me sow love; where there is
injury, pardon; where there is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness,
light; and where there is sadness, joy. O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be
consoled as to console; to be understood, as to understand; to be loved, as to love; for it is in giving
that we receive, it is in pardoning that we are pardoned, and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal
Life.
Amrit Karan Das: We see how Prabhupada loved the devotees, we have seen that our leaders are also
trying to exchange the love. But Prabhupada alone he did management so nicely and alone gave his
love to thousands of disciples. Our leaders are trying but what is lacking that we are facing so many
problems. Can you explain it?
Maharaja: There’s only one thing lacking in the whole creation and that is Krsna consciousness. So
anyone who is failing to convey the love that Srila Prabhupada did, there’s no way to do that, but if our
leaders are lacking in the ability to express and convey Srila Prabhupada’s love, the only thing lacking
is Krsna consciousness. And the only solution is to continue in Krsna consciousness, purifying the heart,
cultivating humility.
What blocks the love is the false ego. That can be dissolved only by Krsna consciousness and the
opening of that channel is humility which must be cultivated along with chanting. Only when one is
that humble can one chant constantly. This means the higher taste of Krsna’s love. So the blockage to
expressing and revealing and conveying Srila Prabhupada’s love is false ego. This can be dissolved by
Krsna consciousness. And the opening of that channel is called humility.
Jwalamukhi DD: Thank you for the wonderful class. I have a question from a person who has grown up
and feels so hurt and victimized, that it’s a big block and they can’t forgive anybody else till others say
sorry first. Growing up abused as child like that it seems superhuman to just rise and say I forgive
everyone. Is it realistic? You have to be even greater than your mentors to do something like that.
Maharaja: You already covered a few important points, I think I should answer before you go further.
This often comes up in talks about forgiveness. If someone feels like a victim, first of all the attitude of
victimhood has to be overcome. As long as one feels he is a victim, he can’t overcome the
circumstances. This relates to the second question which is very important and reveals a very sincere
heart. Someone may feel they were so wronged they can’t forgive the wrongdoers. There is an answer
to this.
If one doesn’t feel it possible to forgive, then they should either ask the persons present, or pray for
that person to be forgiven on their behalf. And if you ask for someone with such compassion to forgive
your wrongdoers on your behalf, you get the same benefit as if you forgave yourself. If you don’t feel
you have it within you, you pray to someone who does have that forgiveness to do it on your behalf and
get the same benefit.
[Question on overcoming victimhood]
Philosophically we know that what comes in to our lives is either the fruition of our past deeds and
misdeeds or it is Krsna’s special mercy to inspire us to surrender. This may come via extreme suffering.
So it’s not philosophically accurate to be a victim as nothing comes upon us that we didn’t in some way
bring upon ourselves. We don’t always answer with that aspect as it’s straight philosophy and can seem
hardhearted or cruel. So the philosophy also has to be presented with compassion and care. The
philosophy alone might be overwhelming and might make it worse and harder for the person to
overcome victimhood. But in a caring loving way if it’s presented, that you want to help the person,
and here’s the philosophy and love that will help you out of victimhood and provide assets to overcome
it.
So loving relationships are crucial. Philosophy may worsen it, but by a personal presentation the person
can accept and benefit from it rather than feeling more hurt.
Kavicandra Swami: Thank you. Forgiveness sometimes is taken as meaning that the offence or offender
was OK or is exonerated, but it’s actually giving up your own vengeance. That’s why it’s hard for
someone to condone the offence because it can go on again and again. What do you have to say about
that?
Maharaja: This is another very important concept and common issue that comes up in terms of
forgiveness as that can be equated with condoning the offence. But it doesn’t condone the offence. It
just means that when the reactions come from our previous actions, I accept with gratitude what I
brought on myself; by acceptance you minimize the pain and stop this cycle of reaction. If you react to
it, you perpetuate the karma, it again becomes a reaction until your lessons are learned and your
karma is nullified. The reluctance to forgive should be complemented with an appeal to the offender
to beg forgiveness from the offended. It’s part of culture that a person wouldn’t be a victim alone but
elders would resolve the issue holistically. So this would be compensated by someone addressing the
offender to fall at the feet of offended for forgiveness as this shows it was not right and shouldn’t be
overlooked but addressed.
Udayananda Das: That’s a beautiful sentiment and decodes a brahminical mentality. But there are
different asramas i a brahmana would forgive, but a ksatriya would not allow such injustices to go on.
So when children have been so wickedly abused a ksatriya would take action. So even though the child
would try to forgive, a ksatriya cannot tolerate such an offence and Manu Samhita says that the
offender should get his just desserts. That is also a healing. We’re not meant to seek revenge, but
when justice is served the perpetrator is punished and the victim is healed.
Maharaja: Yes, this is an important concept. The verse we read today is just after Narada’s instructions
on varnas and asramas. So varnasrama is the answer, the balance of four asrama and varnas. If the
ksatriya is not there to seek justice it makes it more difficult to forgive as it’s seen as an injustice.
Therefore Srila Prabhupada said that the second half of his mission is to establish varnasrama.
Varnasrama is not synonymous with self realization, but is a society which is organised to facilitate self
realistation. Forgiveness is the duty of the brahmanas, but in society there are ksatriyas. Not that we
should seek vengeance, but we should desire justice which is the duty of ksatriyas. That’s why Srila
Prabhupada wanted varnasrama to facilitate the path of self realisation.
Kavicandra Swami: I was going to say the same thing. We talk about discipline, if someone is criminal
and abuser and they are punished, it’s for their own benefit, but has to be according to rules and
regulations, not just out of vengeance. Not like in the Middle East or something, “Oh a Jew killed my
grandmother therefore I have to kill a hundred Jews.” Sometimes kindness is discipline.
Maharaja: So what role does Krsna in the Srimad-Bhagavatam play? First he makes his appearance in
the Srimad-Bhagavatam after Asvatthama had killed the sons of Draupadi and Arjuna is seeing justice.
Asvatthama was caught and Draupadi was pleading his forgiveness as she didn’t want that his mother
had to cry like she did at the loss of her sons. Draupadi wanted to forgive, Bhima wanted to kill him,
and Krsna was more partial to Bhima. Krsna got involved, that’s when he appears in Srimad-
Bhagavatam, as driving the chariot, a sudra function.
Between forgiving him and punishing him it was all resolved by cutting the jewel on his head and his
hair and leaving him with a shaft of hair, which means his false ego was severely diminished but his life
was spared.
So there you have the brahminical qualities and the ksatriya functions working harmoniously, but the
point is, as you said, that punishment is important on various levels. For the individual who suffered,
has offences committed to them, the proper punishment makes it more natural to forgive because if
you forgive an offender and he is not punished, to some degree you may think you are condoning the
offence. The other consideration is it is for the offender’s own good if he is punished then and there
otherwise he will have to suffer in future lives. Therefore, punishment itself is an act of goodness.
These are various reasons why varnasrama dharma is conducive to self realization and for individuals
who seek self realization.
Vaiyasaki Das: Thank you very much, Maharaja, we appreciate your discussion. I would like you to
comment. Right now we have been discussing the mood of the victim, how he should behave. We
haven’t talked about how the perpetrator should behave, especially when we’re talking about a
movement where the perpetrators were installed by leaders or when thae leaders themselves were
sometimes perpetrators.
Maharaja: Vaisnava etiquette is very clear that when one commits an offence, he has to be forgiven by
that person. That may and possibly should entail falling at the feet of that person and begging
forgiveness. This is the standard etiquette for one who commits offense. As far as leaders who we can
say condoned or participated, according to their involvement, they also have to beg forgiveness from
anyone who suffered under their lack of discretion. There again, that is the brahminical perspective.
The ksatriya perspective would be the administration of justice. The Vaisnava perspective, beyond
varnasrama, is that whatever offence we directly committed or perpetuated or assisted or whatever,
has to atoned by begging forgiveness.
Question: What about a second time?
That is an administrative decision and in regards to what we were discussing before, cooperation with
Srila Prabhupada’s family for the sake of love and trust, which is the two main elements that Srila
Prabhupada established for his family, one should have no reservation about stepping down from
whatever position if it will foster the love and trust which is necessary. Ultimately, it is pride that goes
before the fall but if there has been a fall, then a gesture of humility such as stepping down is
recommended by the senior Vaisnavas or whatever the senior judicial element may be, the person must
accept such atonement. . . they might consider that the issue is deeper, that the pride has not yet
been atoned.
Prthu Maharaja, he was performing that sacrifice for the upliftment and welfare of his kingdom so
when Krsna said no don’t’ do it, it wasn’t that Prthu Maharaja wanted the glory of the only one who
equaled Indra in sacrifice, but he was doing it for the welfare of his citizens. But when he saw it was
creating disharmony in the family and Krsna said stop, he very happily accepted the solution to the
conflict. So any of the leaders, who even actually weren’t involved or suspected to be involved or
directed to facilitate the healing. . . . (?) Because whatever instruction comes through the senior
Vaisnavas, that is usually how Krsna’s will is expressed. To step down from such a situation would be
glorious.

Source:http://www.dandavats.com/?p=517