20/11/2018 206x13 needles

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Thread: 206x13 needles

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05-04-2013, 04:33 AM #1

Grandma Nancy 206x13 needles

Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
I need to order some needles for my "new to me" singer 306w. I see that allbrands lists that an
Location: Bunker Hill, IL organ 24x1 is almost identical and can be used with a slight timing adjustment. Anyone have any
Posts: 100 thoughts about using a 24x1. I really only see 12's and 14's for purchase.
Blog Entries: 1

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05-04-2013, 05:13 AM #2

J Miller I don't think I'd like to change the timing of my machine while the correct 206-13s can still be had.
Super Member Originally Posted by AllBrands

<snip> Organ 24x1 needles are almost identical. With a slight timing adjustment the
needles can be used.

>Sew-Classic has them: { http://www.shop.sew-classic.com/206x...eedles_c46.htm }

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NE Indiana >All Brands sells them by the bulk: { http://www.allbrands.com/search?sear...r_by=relevance }
Posts: 8,103 so why alter your machine.

>There is also an industrial needle that can be substituted for the 206-13 with no machine
alterations and that's the DBx1. ( AKA: 16x95, 16x231, 16x257, DBx257, 287WH, 1738, 1738A )
When the use of this needle is mentioned the nay sayers get their panties in a wad and usually go
ballistic claiming these are the same as a 15x1 and will ruin the bobbin case. They are not, they do
work and I'm not the only one who's tested them. And they can be had.

So, stick with the original needles, they are available in a number of places.

Joe

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05-04-2013, 05:57 AM #3

manicmike When I got mine a few months ago it came with the user book which said to use these special
Super Member needles. I did lots of Internet research into the needles and consensus was what Joe said: The
correct needles are available so don't fiddle with the machine's timing. Logically, if the machines
*could* be made to work effectively with the common 15x1, the machine would have been made
like that. Google it, and you'll find a lot of folk telling you of the disaster of changing the timing.
I found that my local shop (sewparts in Melbourne) had a good stock of the correct needles for a
Join Date: Mar 2013 cheap price. If they hadn't had them, I'd have ordered a large number from ebay (local shop was
Location: Melbourne, Australia
way cheaper, incidentally, 60 cents each) rather than modifying a perfectly fine machine.
Posts: 1,848
It just makes no sense to change it from the correct timing.
Mike

Singers: model 12 MOP (1885) Improved Family 29k58 (1939) 44K11 (1921) 201K2, 201K23 206k11 (1950) 222k (1959) 320k2(1959), 15K90,
Bernina 530, Pfaff:360 (1959) http://tailororfailure.blogspot.com

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05-04-2013, 06:09 AM #4

Mitch's mom Joe - Does the 306 use a round shank needle? I never paid much attention because I have always
Super Member passed any machines using 206 needles on to a friend of mine.

Join Date: Jan 2011

Location: TN
Posts: 1,440

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05-04-2013, 06:32 AM #5

Mizkaki The 206, 306, 319,etc take a flat shank needle.

Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2011 Cathy
Location: Northern CA near
Sacramento
Posts: 1,105

Originally Posted by Mitch's mom

Joe - Does the 306 use a round shank needle? I never paid much attention because I
have always passed any machines using 206 needles on to a friend of mine.

Cathy
"Most sewing machine problems are due to the carbon based unit in the chair in front of the machine"

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05-04-2013, 07:45 AM #6

Mizkaki The timing length on the 24X1 needle is 28.2mm, the timing length on the 206X13 is 33.9mm.
Super Member These are not the same at all. The timing length is the top of the shank to the top of the eye.
Join Date: Dec 2011 The 206X13 needle is still available, but in limited sizes, so please don't retime the machine.
Location: Northern CA near
Sacramento
Cathy
Posts: 1,105

Originally Posted by Grandma Nancy

I need to order some needles for my "new to me" singer 306w. I see that allbrands lists
that an organ 24x1 is almost identical and can be used with a slight timing adjustment.
Anyone have any thoughts about using a 24x1. I really only see 12's and 14's for
purchase.

Cathy
"Most sewing machine problems are due to the carbon based unit in the chair in front of the machine"

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05-04-2013, 08:18 AM #7

Mizkaki I guess that I am one of those who gets her panties in a wad. (so uncomfortable LOL) But the
Super Member DBX1 is not the same as a 15x1. The 15x1 is a flat shank and the DBX1 is a round shank.
Join Date: Dec 2011 However, the timing length (top of shank to top of the eye) is the same. And most later model
Location: Northern CA near machines that take a flat shank will not take a round shank.
Sacramento
Posts: 1,105
The real difference is the length after the point. If a DBX1 needle will fit in the 206 the point may
hit the bobbincase, it depends on the whether or not the bobbincase is the open style or not. But
one also needs to consider that the longer point may not clear the fabric at the point that the
feeddogs start moving or hit the fabric while the feeddog are still moving.This can be a problem
with thicker fabrics. One might not think that the slight point difference is a problem, but if you
have timed a machine you know that very tiny differences can have a big impact.
Here is a picture that shows the point differences. Note that the DBX1 from different
manufacturers will have different length tips.

Cathy

Originally Posted by J Miller

When the use of this needle is mentioned the nay sayers get their panties in a wad and
usually go ballistic claiming these are the same as a 15x1 and will ruin the bobbin case.
So, stick with the original needles, they are available in a number of places.
Joe

Cathy
"Most sewing machine problems are due to the carbon based unit in the chair in front of the machine"

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05-04-2013, 09:33 AM #8

J Miller Cathy,
Super Member
Got your emails and responded. I think I'll post my response here since you said the same thing.
Hope you don't mind.

Originally Posted by J Miller from email

Join Date: Feb 2012

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Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,103
Cathy,

I've read all of that from numerous sources and I've not only seen the needle comparison photos, I done it myself.
Ed Lamoureux has an article on his blog { http://sewing-machines.blogspot.com/ } about bobbin case damage
from 15x1 needles with good clear pictures. I can't find that entry now, the link was in my other HD.

What I know is that on our 319K which has the closed top bobbin case, the DBx1 needles work properly.
I do know they are round shank, but it's easy to orient them manually.

When we first tried them I got several samples from Ed Lamoureux on the SewingForum.com.
He and Cyndy Kitt in Australia were doing experiments on those needles so I got the samples from him.
At first I put the needle in and turned the machine by hand in SS and then in ZZ. It didn't hit the case at all.
Then my wife sewed a number of things including multi layers of denim with good results.

So, at least three of us have found that the DBx1 needles do work in machines that use the 206-13.

I do not undertake substitute needles lightly. I had no desire to damage my wife's baby and incur her wrath!

I also use substitute MY1014 needles in my ancient Minnesota Mdl B because they are much easier to find and
less expensive than the Boye 10 or Davis Long it should use.

I use the DCx1F needles in my Kenmore 120-491 because the Kenmore 49 or Boye 2½ are rareium.

When I try substitute needles I take it slowly and make sure the machine I am working on will not have problems
with them. I do not assume ( and have never said so ) that all machines will work with substitute needles. I've
said this before on QB, Stitchers Guild Sewing Forum, and the old SewForum.com.

Perhaps I should put together a paragraph in great detail and put it on a Word file for the next time. At least then
I'd know where it was. LOL.

Joe

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05-04-2013, 09:36 AM #9

J Miller Originally Posted by Mitch's mom

Super Member
Joe - Does the 306 use a round shank needle? I never paid much attention because I
have always passed any machines using 206 needles on to a friend of mine.

The 206-13 is a flat shank needle. The DBx1 is a round shank needle. But it's easy to manually
orient the needle.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NE Indiana I do this with my Minnesota B and Singer 9W-7 as well.
Posts: 8,103
Joe

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05-04-2013, 09:44 AM #10

Mizkaki Joe,
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2011 No. I don't mind at all.
Location: Northern CA near There is a lot of of information and opinions to share.
Sacramento
Posts: 1,105
Cathy

Originally Posted by J Miller

Cathy,

Got your emails and responded. I think I'll post my response here since you said the
same thing. Hope you don't mind.

[/FONT]

Joe

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Cathy
"Most sewing machine problems are due to the carbon based unit in the chair in front of the machine"

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05-04-2013, 06:33 PM #11

J Miller I'm eye balling a 206K. Oh I'm in trouble now. That is the one machine on my Holy Grail list. I've
Super Member seen a total of three and missed out on all of them. Might just try again. I'm nuts ......

Joe

Join Date: Feb 2012

Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,103

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05-05-2013, 08:42 AM #12

cricket_iscute Don't re-time the machine. You could damage the bobbin case, or worse. Allbrands also sells
Senior Member needles for the Singer 206/306/and 319. All use the same needles. Get those instead. They are
Join Date: Jan 2010 sold by the 100 to a box, and that would be good to have some for the future for those machines.
Location: New England
Posts: 864

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05-05-2013, 01:17 PM #13

J Miller cute cricket ...

Super Member
The biggest problem with those sold by AllBrands is they only have size 12 and 14. I also want to
find some 16s and perhaps 18s for heavier stuff ..... like denim. These are for my wife's 314. If I
ever get a 206 I'll be scrounging for the heavier needles.

Joe
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,103

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05-06-2013, 03:00 AM #14

miriam Those Singer 206. 306 and 319 machines are very nice. I am so lucky none of mine came altered.
Power Poster I am so glad to see this needle info! Thanks Cathy and Joe.

Join Date: Mar 2011

Location: Cumberland, IN
Posts: 15,478
Blog Entries: 2

Never let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.

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05-06-2013, 11:46 AM #15

Grandma Nancy Originally Posted by J Miller

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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012 cute cricket ...
Location: Bunker Hill, IL
Posts: 100 The biggest problem with those sold by AllBrands is they only have size 12 and 14. I also
Blog Entries: 1 want to find some 16s and perhaps 18s for heavier stuff ..... like denim. These are for my
wife's 314. If I ever get a 206 I'll be scrounging for the heavier needles.

Joe

So what did you end up purchasing in size 16 and 18 for the heavier materials and how did they
work for you?

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05-06-2013, 11:53 AM #16

J Miller Nope, I haven't purchased any recently. We do have some size 16 206-13s from before they quit
Super Member carrying them and they work fine.

Joe

Join Date: Feb 2012

Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,103

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05-06-2013, 03:12 PM #17

squires1042 I have a lot of needles that I got in a bulk purchase that are for industrial type machines that I
Senior Member have no use for. I will get the sizes and post them maybe someone on this board can use them.
Join Date: Sep 2011 Will post tomorrow on what I have.
Location: Seward Alaska
Posts: 316

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05-06-2013, 05:28 PM #18

abdconsultant great information!

Super Member

Join Date: Oct 2010

Location: Western North
Carolina
Posts: 3,063
Blog Entries: 46

Just passing through!

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05-06-2013, 06:26 PM #19

blueheavenfla Thanks to all for the information. If you find those larger sizes, Joe, please post the source.
Senior Member Thanks...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Merritt Island, FL
Posts: 664
Blog Entries: 16

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05-06-2013, 07:15 PM #20

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path49 There are some 16s on ebay but they come from Australia http://www.ebay.com/itm/Needles-
Senior Member for-...item20c5d85b44 And here's a site that has them (never bought from this site so don't know
Join Date: Apr 2012 anything about 'em) http://www.shop.heavysew.com/Needle-...x13-100-16.htm
Location: Illinois...near St.
Louis
Posts: 390

Last edited by path49; 05-06-2013 at 07:22 PM.

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05-07-2013, 01:53 AM #21

miriam Originally Posted by path49

Power Poster
There are some 16s on ebay but they come from Australia
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Needles-for-...item20c5d85b44 And here's a site that has
them (never bought from this site so don't know anything about 'em)
http://www.shop.heavysew.com/Needle-...x13-100-16.htm

just a bit spendy aren't they?

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cumberland, IN
Posts: 15,478
Blog Entries: 2

Never let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.

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05-07-2013, 04:18 AM #22

J Miller No kidding. Prices like these make sewing with these old machines an expensive proposition.
Super Member
Joe

Join Date: Feb 2012

Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,103

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08-04-2014, 03:02 PM #23

JudyTheSewer I think my 319W has been altered because I removed the needle for the first time and it compares
Super Member to a 15X1 exactly. Also, it looks like the 15X1 that is in Cathy's post above dated 05/04/2013.

I put in a fresh 15X1 today and sewed a few blocks for the next TOGA since I have put this
machine into a treadle base. It is sewing fine. There are no marks on the bobbin case. The
decorative stitches worked great when I tested them out when I first got my machine.

My question is: Should I get this machine re-timed so that it uses the intended 206X13 needles or
Join Date: Aug 2011 continue to enjoy it using the standard and plentiful 15X1's?
Location: Sparks, NV
Posts: 1,239 (PS: THANKS Cathy! I did a Google looking for "difference between 15X1 and 206X13 and this post
came up with your pictures which is EXACTLY what I was looking for!)

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08-04-2014, 03:16 PM #24

miriam If it works...

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Power Poster

Join Date: Mar 2011

Location: Cumberland, IN
Posts: 15,478
Blog Entries: 2

Never let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.

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08-04-2014, 05:17 PM #25

J Miller It ain't broke, so don't fix it. In reality the eye of the 206x13 and the 15x1 is in the same place.
Super Member The 206x13s are shorter from the eye to the point.

Jeo

Join Date: Feb 2012

Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,103

I love the old iron and wood machines. They're solid and reliable.
Founder of IAAA - I Am An Anachronism .

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