←  The Coatmaker's Forum

DB Dinner Jacket with Curved Front Panels

Sator 18 Apr 2011

This comes from Hans Mayer of Dresden. It is an attractive fancy dinner jacket with a curved front panel. The front dart is also extended to the hem of the coat. A more
pronounced than usual flare of the skirt is also a major style feature. In many ways it resembles A.A. Whife's experiment with the panelled lounge jacket.

The choice of colour is slightly dated in a summery powder blue but it could still look good in a classic black, navy, or midnight. It could also be cut as a SB dinner jacket
with curve panels. Nor is there anything to say that a cut like this has to be made up as evening wear. A panelled lounge coat can also be made up for regular daywear.
A DB dinner jacket with panelling and side vents.

All values in centimetres.

This is intended as a youthful fashion.

Height = 176
Chest, OW = 96/48/24/12
Waist = 86/43/21.5
Seat = 100/50
Waist length, TL = 44, 1/4 height

Depth of scye, RH = 23, 1/4 of half chest + 1/4 TL

Length, L = 82, 1/2 KG minus 6
Back neck, HR = 7.8, 1/10 of half OW + 3
Width of back, RB = 20, 1/3 of half the chest + 4
Width of armscye, AD = 15.5, 1/4 of half the chest + 3.5
Width of chest, BB = 22, 1/2 of half chest minus 2
Front waist width, Lv = 22.5, 1/2 of half the chest + 1
Over shoulder = 39, 1/2 of the half chest + 15

Diagram 1
RH-H = 23
h-W = 11.5, half RH
T-W = 44
G-T = 20
L-W = 82
t1-T = 4
g1-G = 4.5

Square up from hL to draught the centre back seam from W through t1 and g1.

W1-W = 1
a-W1 = 7.8
HR-a = 2, and complete the back neck seam
RB-R = 20, square upwards
ah-RB = 21.5, 1/2 of the overshoulder + 2. Add 2cm by squaring out at the armscye.
HA-RB = 9.75, 1/2 of the shoulder seam height minus 1
S-RB = 5.75, 1/4 of the depth of scye. Square out 1.5 cm out at the armscye.

From the neck point go down 3 cm along the shoulder seam and square down 11 cm. Take 0.5 cm from the dart, and remove a 1.5 wedge at the armscye (dotted lines) in
order to enlarge the shoulder seam dart enough so that it can provide room for the shoulder blades.

The Side Seam

t2-t1 = 17, back width minus 3

On the bottom hem from hL to sL place a measure of 17.5 cm = RB minus 2.5 and draw in the side seam.

The side vents the back panel must be widened and to to displace the side seam somewhat forwards. Displace point t2 forwards by 0.5cm as shown and point SL by 1 cm.
Complete the side seam to give it a nice run as shown in the diagram.

The Forepart

AD-AT = 17.5, armscye width + 2. From AD and AT square upwards and downwards.

The side point S1 is located at the same height as point S on the back panel. The side seam must be displaced inwards at t3 about 1.5cm and the seam drawn in. The seam
displacement is required as on the back panel: at t3 displace 0.5cm and at sL 1cm. Draw in completed seam.

V-AT = 24.5 cm, same as the depth of scye + 1.5

AH-AT = 18.5, 1/2 the overshoulder minus 1, the arc shown is drawn by sweeping from AH around the centre AT in the armscye.

VA-AT = 4
BB-AT = 2, bis the middle of the distance from AT-BB
LV-H = 22.5, c lies 0.5 cm right of the middle of the distance from H-LV. From LV square out.
From point c to b is a straight line to the neckpoint and square out from HV to V.
HM-HV = 8.8, = the width of the back neck + 1. Join with BB and LV.
HT-HM = 7.8cm = back neck
d-HV = 6.8 = back neck minus 1 cm
The gorge seam is completed.

Carry over the width of the back shoulder seam minus 1 cm to the front shoulder seam (from HV to the arc). Complete armcye as per the diagram.

The Side Body Seam

From AT go out 3.5 cm and from H 2.5 to the left. Draw the seam to the top of the side pockets and then further down to the hem.

At the armscye take out 0.5 cm from the right and 1.5 cm from the left side. Take out 2 cm at the waistline (equally divided). At the hem overlap the seams by 1.5 cm.

The front length is 1.5 cm longer that the side length. The pocket lies 8 cm below the waistline, running evenly with the hem. The panel seam is placed 1 cm left of the
centre of chest. Take 1-1.5cm out at the waist. Draw the run of the seam through the cross over point at the seam line, and continue the seam to a point about 4cm above
VA in the armscye.

The overlap at the front is 6.5cm at the waist and 7.5cm at the hem.

The distance between the buttons and the lapels are as per the diagram. The gorge dart at HM is place in the front third of the width of chest.

Diagram 2 The Sleeve

AH-AT = 19.5, 1/2 of the overshoulder
KH-AH = 2.5, 1/10 of the height of shoulder seam + 0.5
VA-AT = 45
hL-vL = 3
E-T = 21, 1/2 of the sleeve length (ÄL) minus 1.5 cm
Square out from HK, AT, E, and hL
DM-AT = 16.5, width of armscye plus 1 cm
HM-DM = 4.25, 1/4 of the crown height. Square up and down from HM.
1-AT = 1 cm to the right to give the sleeve ease
2-KH = 2 cm to the left of the centre of KH to H1
3-KH = the middle of the distance from KH to 2. From H1 square out to 3.
0-H1 = 3.5 cm, 1/4 of the armscye width minus 0.5cm

Displace VA 0.5cm outwards and join with 3. Join point 2 with 0 and 0 with 1. Place the French curve for the armscye 1 cm higher and draw the undersleeve in.

The middle of the topsleeve is displaced inwards by 1.5 cm at point E and joined with vL and VA. Add in a sleeve opening width (HW or hand width) of 15 cm HW to hL to
join vL through to EL. Displace the undersleeve back seam inwards by 3 cm. Displace the topsleeve seam back seam outwards by another 3 cm. Complete the seams.

The front seam is displaced inwards by 1.5cm on the undersleeve. The front seam is displaced outward by 3.5cm at E and 2.5cm at vL.

7.5mm seams have been allowed for except at the centre back, the side body seam, the front panel seam, along the back neck and gorge, and the front edge.

Full original text:

 Sator 18 Apr 2011
The principle concern I have with this draught is that the curved front panel isn't really doing enough to justify it's presence. However, with a little bit of foresight in could
be put to better use.

The way the front panel extends to the base of hem and armscye means that in principle, you could get waist suppression here without distortion.

To reduce the amount of flare of the skirt, reduce the amount of overlap at the hems of the curved front panel and the fronts. The usual insertion of a small over pocket
wedge of around 1 cm in size will also help to barrel the hemlines inwards, thus helping to control the flare. At which point, you may find yourself eliminating the
extension of the front dart to the hem in the process to produce a cleaner looking front like this:

The way you go about this is to not only reduce the overlap of the curve panel seam and front panel but to make them look like the cross hatched area here:
On your paper pattern cut across the top of your side pocket. Now pinch off the dart formed by the cross hatched area (arrows), to transfer your the cross hatched dart to
the over pocket area.

To get more chest effect out of the curved panel seam, increase the size of the gorge dart without reducing the length of the gorge seam. Insert a 1.5cm dart placed
horizontally at the level of the lapels going through BB and pointing at b. Close this dart to increase the gorge dart size. Now reduce the gorge dart size back to what it was
originally by pinching it off partly, transferring part of the gorge dart to the curved top of panel seam. This will cause a "dart" to open up on the curve panel seam above
VA. When working with stripes or checks it is best to transfer the whole of the gorge dart to the armscye panel seam, as this will ensure a straighter run of the pattern at
the shoulders.

The layout of the canvas could follow that of the curved panels of the coat. Avoid excessive overlap of seams of panel and shell, but care should also be taken on lighter
modern cloths to avoid the seams of the curved panel from showing through on the right side of the cloth.

Consideration could be made of having the front panel seam extending midway through the front shoulder rather than terminating at the armscye:

http://www.cutterand...p?showtopic=320

This makes it easier to produce the hollow at the shoulder, while avoid an armscye dart in the canvas the tends to throw the pitch of the armscye backwards potentially
giving a bit of tightness at the front of scye. These are suggestions only. Again, great care must be taken to avoid the canvas seams showing through on the outside of the
coat. In many cases, with modern cloths these heavily panelled canvas patterns may no longer be workable.

Lastly, the disadvantage of the front of scye dart is that the larger it is, the more it throws the pitch of the armscye backwards. To compensate, it will usually be important
to keep the back shoulder seam dart.

Like This

Der Zuschneider 18 Apr 2011

Hans Mayer one father of Germany's ultimate cutting, 20 years before Rundschau.

This is one of his latest draft in June 1968. From 1969 - 1989 The 'Fachbeirat' with members of engineered Master tailors took over and continued with a final cutting
system of even "more" precision, which the GDR supported with money cause Germany was the tailoring workbench for the western countries making Dollars.

But I think Hans Mayer was already light years ahead, the improvement of "Fachbeirat" was only making it more difficult, tailors now needed to be firm in math now.

Like This

Der Zuschneider 18 Apr 2011

The way the front panel extends to the base of hem and armscye means that in principle, you could get waist suppression here without distortion is a Side product.

Quote

To reduce the amount of flare of the skirt, reduce the amount of overlap at the hems of the curved front panel and the fronts.

If you don't want the flare of the skirt, then take the front panel out. The Front panel is made for the flare, it is the style of the dinner jacket.

Quote
 Lastly, the disadvantage of the front of scye dart is that the larger it is, the more it throws the pitch of the armscye backwards. To compensate, it will usually
be important to keep the back shoulder seam dart.

The lapel dart is already considered by point c laying 0.5cm to the right. (Rundschau, Ed. 17th.)
There is no compensation by the back dart. The back dart is just to make room for round backs or hard and sturdy fabric that take no iron work.
The back dart was a common feature in the GDR cutting systems from 1960 onwards.

Sator 18 Apr 2011

I have no doubt that the back shoulder dart throws the armscye to a more forward position.

This is the paper pattern lying flat:

I then close the dart with a bit of tape:

The shoulder point is dramatically thrown forward.

This is the opposite direction that a front armscye dart throws the armscye - something desirable only on a figure that holds their shoulders backwards.

This is why the back shoulder seam dart aides in comfort - because usually the shoulder moves forward and the position of the armscye in the forward-backward plane is
as important as the depth of armscye in the vertical plane.

Sator 18 Apr 2011

'Der Zuschneider', on 18 Apr 2011 - 3:08 PM, said:

The lapel dart is already considered by point c laying 0.5cm to the right.

I think the dart on this draft and all 1960s Rundschau patterns is still modest. It can easily be increased to produce a slightly more full chested effect. If you like you can
split the dart between the gorge and the front of scye. It is common in ladies' tailoring to start with a large shoulder seam dart and then to transfer this to the front of
armscye when drafting a curved panel seam coat. This is problematic with men because not as much of the mass of the bust protrudes out of the front. Instead, it just
throws the front of armscye backwards, potentially producing a bit of tightness there, or reducing range of arm movement.

Sator 18 Apr 2011

Let me try to explain myself better.

Here is a common problem seen with full busted women:

The fullness of bust produces extra length and drags at the armscye.

The way to correct this is to insert an armscye dart here like this:
The curved panel seam is one way of introducing a bust dart at the armscye:
However, on men it is different. There is not the same protrusion forwards of fullness at the centre of bust. If you make the armscye dart too big, all it will do is create
excessive shortness and tightness at the front of scye.

Put another way, the armscye dart also throws the front of armscye backwards, but without the fullness of bust to compensate, this holds the front of armscye too far
backwards for the male figure, reducing the forward mobility of the armscye, which is felt as tightness when he tries to move his arms forwards.

The front of armscye is not an ideal position to place a chest dart on most male figure. The gorge (Halsloch) is a better position, because here it throws ease to the front of
scye. However, if you want the pattern to run straight at the shoulder you can straighten the neckpoint, to throw excess ease to the armscye, and then remove this excess
with the armscye dart.

Hopefully, this makes more sense. This also explains why Mayer avoided producing a darting effect like on this ladies' coat at the front of armscye:
However, a very small darting effect can be introduced here - with caution.

Obviously, I am talking about proportionate males. For an overerect figure, especially a body builder with pronounced development of the pectoralis major muscles, a
larger armscye dart is desirable.

Like This

Der Zuschneider 18 Apr 2011

'Sator', on 18 Apr 2011 - 3:23 PM, said:

I have no doubt that the back shoulder dart throws the armscye to a more forward position.

This is the paper pattern lying flat:

 I then close the dart with a bit of tape:

The shoulder point is dramatically thrown forward.

This is the opposite direction that a front armscye dart throws the armscye - something desirable only on a figure that holds their shoulders backwards.

This is why the back shoulder seam dart aides in comfort - because usually the shoulder moves forward and the position of the armscye in the forward-
backward plane is as important as the depth of armscye in the vertical plane.

Believe me, you are on the wrong track. The shoulder dart brings fullness in the back and shortness in the Armhole 'Rueckenspiegel' nothing else. You need to turn your
pattern towards the armhole not the back then you see it.

Like This

Der Zuschneider 18 Apr 2011

'Sator', on 18 Apr 2011 - 3:31 PM, said:

I think the dart on this draft and all 1960s Rundschau patterns is still modest. It can easily be increased to produce a slightly more full chested effect. If you
like you can split the dart between the gorge and the front of scye. It is common in ladies' tailoring to start with a large shoulder seam dart and then to
transfer this to the front of armscye when drafting a curved panel seam coat. This is problematic with men because not as much of the mass of the bust
protrudes out of the front. Instead, it just throws the front of armscye backwards, potentially producing a bit of tightness there, or reducing range of arm
movement.

You can turn around the lapel dart and turn it in other darts, but this is not the issue in the dinner jacket, here the lapel dart only produces shortness in the bridle
bringing fullness to the chest. For women the lapel dart would be to small, but you can use the lapel dart in conjunction with the breast dart, but this is another topic. The
lapel dart for men should not be more than 1.5cm. The best lapel dart you achieve when draping the pattern to get additional front length for the big chest. In this case
edition 17th says: point c or b remains in the halves and none of them is displaces 0.5cm.

Sator 18 Apr 2011

'Der Zuschneider', on 18 Apr 2011 - 7:21 PM, said:

The shoulder dart brings fullness in the back and shortness in the Armhole 'Rueckenspiegel' nothing else.

I agree that the back shoulder dart does throw fullness to the middle of the back, and shortness the back balance a little.

If it does "nothing else" why is the shoulder point dramatically thrown forward in this photo? You can clearly see it here:

When you say it produces fullness/roundness to the back, it says the same thing anyway. The curvature you introduce tends to angle forward as you get closer to the
armscye.

Am I missing something? It seems totally obvious to me

Like This
 dkst 07 Jun 2011
Thanks for posting this, I'm going through the process of drafting it and I noticed a few mistakes.

In the proportionate calculations, the front waist width is calculated as follows:

Front waist width, Lv = 22.5, 1/2 of half the chest + 1

But from looking at the original, I believe it should be:

Front waist width, Lv = 22.5, 1/2 of half the waist + 1

Also in the drafting instructions under "The Forepart", I believe this line:

BB-AT = 2, bis the middle of the distance from AT-BB

should be

BB-AT = 22 (width of chest), b is the middle of the distance from AT-BB

Thanks.
Share Share
Full Version