our worship team guitarist(s) - aka Us!

Discussion in 'Worship Service Players' started by consumnfire1229, Feb 23, 2017.

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Mar 3, 2017 #21

JuneauMike
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GoldieLocks said: ↑

I thought this was a JOKE.

Most churches I visit barely have a properly tuned acoustic. And the
black fender Strat package (being used) still has the New Christmas wrapping
covering part of it.

NEVER in my life have I walked into a Sunday church with a boutique

Guitar or amp on stage. (far as I remember) And i've been in 100's of churches over
the years.

OF course: i'm fully guilty of exotic music toys... and my 1970's

Skynyrd haircut. I just want the senors to feel comfortable.

My church doesn't strictly fit the premise of this post either. But they
are out there.

JuneauMike, Mar 3, 2017

#21
Mar 3, 2017 #22
Jhengsman
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JuneauMike said: ↑

My church doesn't strictly fit the premise of this post either. But
they are out there.
 I don't fit the premise but if I was a lottery winner I would have my best
with me on Sunday. And with enough spare cash all of us will see "boutique". As it
was I was on the then Carvin site trying to build my dream when I found my present
number 1 used at Sam Ash for a third of the projected Carvin price and stopped the
search and dream guitar build.

However if any musician comes in they don't look at mine with envious eyes
it is just gear that works for me

Jhengsman, Mar 3, 2017

#22
Apr 10, 2017 #23
Boltneck
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On the TDPRI main page was a post about Do you modify guitars or leave them
as is? Now, I am one who does. Amps too. Looking for better sound.That's. I use
this equipment at church with praise team. There are members who would not spend a
dime on improving there stuff, not even a clip on tuner, or set of strings till one
breaks..and these people have the means to improve their rig if they wanted. You
find all kinds in church service. Some just wanna be up front and seen. I have
found if you attend a few services you will find out who wants to worship and who
wants to show off, regardless of equipment or clothing.

Boltneck, Apr 10, 2017

#23
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Apr 11, 2017 #24
Ascension
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One of the main reasons I avoid most Worship guitar sites is exactly what
you are speaking of.
It's also one of the reasons I hang around HERE so much because most of
that ain't here!
On the high end gear there are a lot of folk like myself who have been on
the road in our younger days but now use our tallents playing in Church. Been
playing for 45 or so years and in that time you do accumulate some "stuff" LOL.
That said this arrogance and gear snobbery I see in many of the Worship
circles bothers me a LOT!
 Heck I know guys who can take a MIM Strat and cheap SS Peavey Bandit and
wipe the floor with 98% of the so called guitar heroes in modern worship even with
them running all the boutique gear!
Having nice gear is cool as long as the GEAR doesn't have YOU!!

Ascension, Apr 11, 2017

#24
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Apr 11, 2017 #25
Ascension
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CapnCrunch said: ↑

When I read this article, my first thought was "it's interesting to

think about the problems that other people are having". I also had to laugh about
the quote where the author said something to the effect of "I'm thankful that we're
past the traditional worship v. contemporary worship nonsense". The church we
currently attend and serve at is still in the grip of that
nonsense...........They're a little behind the time. In 20 years or so, maybe we'll
be having the problem described in this article. Just goes to show that with humans
all things are imperfect.

Just read the article. Spent quite a number of years playing in a Church
that sat 10,000 and ran 5000 or so on a normal Sunday morning. The band ROCKED and
we had our own voice. We were the exception to that rule in the article but the
core of that assessment is dead on!
WAY to many rock star performers today doing Sunday morning music in big
Churches and not nearly enough real worship leaders!
The article also has a very valid point in why with the changes in
Christian music and most all the Christian labels now being owned by secular
companies like Sony.
Frankly I almost never listen to mainstream modern Worship stuff anymore
because it has lost it's heart and soul. It's become more about sales and the $
than a real hunger for HIS presence.
What excites me is stuff from IHOP, CFNI Rick Pino Jason Upton Misty
Edwards ect not the pop artist of the week.
Money and fame came in and worship became secondary IMO over the last 15
years or so.
Also as an old White metal hair band player I'm REALLY digging the new
Christian Power Metal stuff i am hearing. Has a LOT more heart meat and reality
than most of the big $ pop drivel I hear called worship. I want to KNOW what they
are singing about and how it affects ME or the world around us not having to wonder
if the song is to the Lord or a significant "other"!
Give me lyric's like THIS song written by Matt Smith of Theocracy!

Last edited: Apr 11, 2017

 Ascension, Apr 11, 2017
#25
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Apr 11, 2017 #26
Boltneck
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You are right Ascension, If you play long enough ..you will acquire lots of
stuff. To someone looking in on a forum..it may appear that way..like we show off
rigs. The stuff I have represents many years of playing.. Not showing off, just a
lifetime of playing and improving my rig as I could. It has also allowed me to give
back to younger players some of what I learned,and what I had extra. I always knew
that a younger generation must be raised to lead worship.

Boltneck, Apr 11, 2017

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Apr 11, 2017 #27
Ascension
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Boltneck said: ↑

You are right Ascension, If you play long enough ..you will acquire
lots of stuff. To someone looking in on a forum..it may appear that way..like we
show off rigs. The stuff I have represents many years of playing.. Not showing off,
just a lifetime of playing and improving my rig as I could. It has also allowed me
to give back to younger players some of what I learned,and what I had extra. I
always knew that a younger generation must be raised to lead worship.

Agree with every thing you have said here. Have given so much stuff away
over the years I doubt I could remember and count it all. Now stuff just seems to
find ME ( funny how that happens ain't it LOL!)
In particular you are dead on that a younger generation must be raised up
and trained in the art of Worship. Not to perform but in the ART of Worship which
is not the same thing. I have been fortunate myself to have had a few mentors and
even to share the stage with a couple. Kent Henry is one in particular. Ol dog like
to wore my fingers off here pushing me at Cathedral ( I'm the "Richard" he tells to
"light It UP" here then kept turning round scat singing and expecting me to respond
back on guitar LOL! http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=4142009 ) but most do not.
That is something that has been a pressing burden/goal for myself for a few years
now. Just turned 59 and have to wonder how much longer I can do this at this level.
Raising up a new generation of Worship warriors was one of the main stated mission
goals of the Church I was in that is now in limbo. We MUST do this or will loose a
generation!

Last edited: Apr 11, 2017

Ascension, Apr 11, 2017
#27
Apr 11, 2017 #28
Ascension
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One thing is if we are truly "called" to worship we must understand who and
what we are. What we are NOT is simply a performer and a rock star but one who is
charged with sharing a "gift" given to us by our creator to others.
Matt Smith hit it out of the park with his lyrics in this song from
Theocracy on the Gift Of Music.

Ascension, Apr 11, 2017

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Apr 28, 2017 #29
Dunnigan
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Good food for thought. I started acoustic guitar 27 years ago because I
wanted to worship with music on guitar. I have always loved music and been easily
moved by music, but the idea of playing in front of people horrified me. Eventually
I dipped my toes into the waters of leading for small groups and developed a bit
from there. I have always thought my job was to set my mind's attention and heart's
affection on God. And then bring others in my wake. I've been working on electric
for the last year or so because I love the voice that the electric can bring to the
song. I have put together a decent rig (which includes a Timmy), but I would be
disappointed if people noticed my rig and not the God I was pointing to. Excellence
is not the ultimate end of music, worship or other.

I agree with one of the criticisms in the article about certain worship
songs being keyed and/or arranged beyond the vocal range of mere mortals. I will
give a pass to a good high tenor if he saves the high stuff for a big chorus or
something. But let's keep most of the song in a more reasonable range.

Dunnigan, Apr 28, 2017

#29
Apr 30, 2017 #30
eedwards
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I suppose I am guilty of being a worship team player with boutique guitar

and pedals, but I am definitely not trendy in appearance(my teenage daughter will
confirm). I try not to be pretentious and showy at church. My goal has always been
to make the best sound to support the songs so that people can worship God through
the music. There is a fine line between making a joyful noise and showing off and I
try to stay on the joyful noise side.

I recently got a Strymon Lex pedal after watching the "That Pedal Show"
episode about Leslie simulators. It is such a fantastic sound and so much fun to
use. However, I find myself intentionally using it sparingly because I don't want
it to be a distraction. After using it this morning, I talked to the Worship leader
about it and asked if it was too much, or a distraction.

I often wonder if I am guilty of using the Lord's resources wastefully in

this direction or if the Lord is pleased with my offering of music and my intention
to do it with skill and the best that I can do. It is a question that only the Lord
can answer for any musician.

I find most criticisms of modern worship music to be as shallow as they

accuse the music of being. I DO think it is a requirement that players in church be
as intentional with how and what they play as any other Christian is with what they
do in church.

I had the pleasure of spending a weekend at the Abbey of Gethsemani back in

the fall, where they practice silence, except during the singing and liturgy. It is
as foreign to me as some of the church services in Kenya that missionaries have
told me about. It is a good reminder that none of this is about me or my gear or my
music or the opinions of any human in the building. It is about the God we worship
who is pleased with our stumbles toward Him.

eedwards, Apr 30, 2017

#30
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May 2, 2017 #31
Boltneck
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We are talking gear right? Compare with whats around you at church. Our
church has a baby grand Steinway and an organ that requires out of state techs to
repair. A sound system which also requires a tech to teach as well as maintain.
Many thousands of dollars were spent for these things..cause some people at the
church wanted the best that they could get. Here we are now talking about being
pretentious over what? A >$5000 rig? ( guitar,amps pedals ) Now my church is medium
sized and if yours isn't that big or capable of that budget..Please Don't Be
Offended! I'm just saying. I have never in my life heard 1 person say "they are
showing off their Steinway, they could've bought a Baldwin and saved a fortune,
Sooo pretentious" So why do guitarist do this?

Boltneck, May 2, 2017

#31
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May 2, 2017 #32
blille
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Boltneck said: ↑

We are talking gear right? Compare with whats around you at church. Our
church has a baby grand Steinway and an organ that requires out of state techs to
repair. A sound system which also requires a tech to teach as well as maintain.
Many thousands of dollars were spent for these things..cause some people at the
church wanted the best that they could get. Here we are now talking about being
pretentious over what? A >$5000 rig? ( guitar,amps pedals ) Now my church is medium
sized and if yours isn't that big or capable of that budget..Please Don't Be
Offended! I'm just saying. I have never in my life heard 1 person say "they are
showing off their Steinway, they could've bought a Baldwin and saved a fortune,
Sooo pretentious" So why do guitarist do this?

You are absolutely right. If you can afford gear and know how to use it,
great.

I think it's the emphasis being on the exclusiveness of the gear rather
than getting the job done. Also worshipping (pun intended) specific brands.

For any musician an emphasis on gear vs music is a red flag ime. In worship
in particular it's worse since it's meant to be about God.

blille, May 2, 2017

#32
 May 3, 2017 #33
Boltneck
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I got my signs wrong (<>) I meant less than $5000 dollars in post 31.

Boltneck, May 3, 2017

#33
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May 4, 2017 #34
CapnCrunch
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Boltneck said: ↑

We are talking gear right? Compare with whats around you at church. Our
church has a baby grand Steinway and an organ that requires out of state techs to
repair. A sound system which also requires a tech to teach as well as maintain.
Many thousands of dollars were spent for these things..cause some people at the
church wanted the best that they could get. Here we are now talking about being
pretentious over what? A >$5000 rig? ( guitar,amps pedals ) Now my church is medium
sized and if yours isn't that big or capable of that budget..Please Don't Be
Offended! I'm just saying. I have never in my life heard 1 person say "they are
showing off their Steinway, they could've bought a Baldwin and saved a fortune,
Sooo pretentious" So why do guitarist do this?

I couldn't remember what the OP posted, so I had to go back and look. The
original topic of this thread was "why are we worship guitarists more pretentious
than our secular counterparts". I still think gear is the primary way many, maybe
even most, "worship guitarists" try to stand out from the crowd. The Lord knows
that the vast majority don't stand out in any way when it comes to creativity,
uniqueness, breadth of technical ability etc. etc.

I don't think that loading your board with the latest art graphic covered
pedals, or with $400 Chase Bliss or Strymon pedals is unique to the worship world,
but in my experience, worship musicians tend to go for trendy, "my board looks
cooler than your board" gear. You can't paint all of us with the same brush but
there are some valid reasons for the generalizations.

I personally have always been intrigued by why worship guitarists want to

have unique high end pedal boards but tend to be lemmings when it comes to their
Tele or Gretsch guitars and Vox amps.
 CapnCrunch, May 4, 2017
#34
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May 4, 2017 #35
Dunnigan
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I'm new to electric after playing acoustic for years. So when I built up my
rig over the last year or so, and I did it with an eye to covering Hillsong,
Passion, Bethel, etc., I was a bit of a lemming. (Vox AC15, but I did go with a G&L
ASAT Love it!) I actual tried an Epi LP, but even splitting coils, I could not get
the clean tones I was wanting. I am too new at this to have highly particular
tastes in say an OD pedal, so I just went with something well regarded, a Timmy.

Dunnigan, May 4, 2017

#35
May 5, 2017 #36
Boltneck
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CapnCrunch said: ↑

I couldn't remember what the OP posted, so I had to go back and look.

The original topic of this thread was "why are we worship guitarists more
pretentious than our secular counterparts". I still think gear is the primary way
many, maybe even most, "worship guitarists" try to stand out from the crowd. The
Lord knows that the vast majority don't stand out in any way when it comes to
creativity, uniqueness, breadth of technical ability etc. etc.

I don't think that loading your board with the latest art graphic
covered pedals, or with $400 Chase Bliss or Strymon pedals is unique to the worship
world, but in my experience, worship musicians tend to go for trendy, "my board
looks cooler than your board" gear. You can't paint all of us with the same brush
but there are some valid reasons for the generalizations.

I personally have always been intrigued by why worship guitarists want

to have unique high end pedal boards but tend to be lemmings when it comes to their
Tele or Gretsch guitars and Vox amps.
 Boltneck, May 5, 2017
#36
May 5, 2017 #37
Boltneck
Boltneck
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I'm sorry I didn't get your quote in the same post CapnCrunch. I agree with
your comment. I just haven't been exposed to the snobbery others have I suppose. I
have had people ask me why I spend the money I do on my rig. I have observed guitar
players moaning bout the cost of their rig..however I have never heard that from
other musicians. Pianist,Trumpet and bass players,percussion or violins. Just
guitarist. And no one ask the others why they spent the money on their violin. Good
instruments aren't always cheap. We get what we can an improve as we can.

Boltneck, May 5, 2017

#37
May 5, 2017 #38
CapnCrunch
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Boltneck said: ↑

I'm sorry I didn't get your quote in the same post CapnCrunch. I agree
with your comment. I just haven't been exposed to the snobbery others have I
suppose. I have had people ask me why I spend the money I do on my rig. I have
observed guitar players moaning bout the cost of their rig..however I have never
heard that from other musicians. Pianist,Trumpet and bass players,percussion or
violins. Just guitarist. And no one ask the others why they spent the money on
their violin. Good instruments aren't always cheap. We get what we can an improve
as we can.

I totally agree with you on the double standard applied to other musicians
vs. guitar players in church. We could start a new thread on that topic. I didn't
reply to that topic because it is kind of a pet peave of mine, and I didn't want to
go off on a tangent. Our church has a 9 foot Steinway and HUGE pipe organ that was
bought in the 1960's. The Piano cost just south of $100K and the organ cost a lot
more than that in today's dollars. It cost over $50K alone just to repair and
maintain it a few years ago. The repair guys worked on it for more than two weeks.
I'd like to get the church to buy strings, new tubes and an occasional pedal, but
that is a non starter. Every weekend we set up the stage around our stupidly
monstrous grand piano, and I think of fun ways we could cut it up and have a big
fire…………

Another thing that I find "Ironic" is that we actually have some blue hairs
who will make a show of putting their fingers in their ears if they can hear the
drums or the electric guitar. On the other hand, they'll smile and sing along with
the pipe organ even though it is as loud as a jet engine, and way louder than the
contemporary instruments.

CapnCrunch, May 5, 2017

#38
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May 6, 2017 #39
Boltneck
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We have some of the same attitudes at our church.Drums to loud, some of it

I chalk up to the drummer and some to Sunday morning mentality. In our church I
find myself advocating moving a contemporary service to a Saturday or Sunday night.
I haven't had the show off guitarist with custom toys yet. If he added to the
service I wouldn't care what he spent..as for showing off equipment..that only
works with other guitarist. The non guitarist won't know or care about your rig.
You still gotta play that guitar and equipment can only take you so far.

Boltneck, May 6, 2017

#39
May 7, 2017 #40
Jack FFR1846
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I don't know if these generalizations fit all worship guitarists. Out of

all the ones I've played with, I'm by far the one you'd probably point at from the
congregation. Did I try to attract attention? No. Do I have more expensive gear?
No...my rig is a digitech rp250, an ernie ball volume pedal and a wireless guitar
sender that I sometimes used. But I've bought, modified, painted and used
craigslist MIM strats and teles for years. So I've literally used 3 dozen guitars.
I don't own 3 dozen guitars....I'd modify, play for a while, find something else
and sell off the last one.

There's my story, I'm sticking with it. By the way, my avatar tele started
as a $125 pawn shop MIM. Lotsa time and refinish with some locking tuners and very
little else (besides time and elbow grease) and it became the best tele I've ever
played, bar none. Yah, I was stupid and sold it off.....oh well. Someone got a
great guitar.

Jack FFR1846, May 7, 2017

#40