Oedipus​ - Debate ​PREP HANDOUT (FATE VS.

FREE WILL)
Group Members: Nut, Pat, June, Mint, Van, Sand, Pooh,Neno, Print, Taiji Class #: ​1201

Topic: ​Does the play ​Oedipus Tyrannus​ reveal more about fate or about free will?

Print this worksheet, and bring it for the class debate. Worksheets will be submitted to the instructor.

Parts Free Will

Argument 1 (Pooh, Nut)

- Oedipus’ life weren’t led by fate, rather the sets of specific actions that led to the
current result.

Evidences
- Definition of fate and free will (Cambridge Dictionary):
- Fate = a power that some people believe causes and controls all events, so
that you cannot change or control the way things will happen
- Free-will = the ability to decide what to do independently of any outside
influence
- Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action
unimpeded (uninterrupted).
- Free-will actions
- The King and Queen of Thebes chose to leave Oedipus on the mountain
- If King and Queen didn’t choose to leave him on the mountain, then
Oedipus might love them like he loves Corinth’s king and queen and
run away from Thebes instead of Corinth.
- The shepherd spare Oedipus by choice.
- If Shepherd killed Oedipus, all of this wouldn’t happen.
- The Corinth King and Queen lied to Oedipus by choice.
- Oedipus chose to leave Corinth to Thebes by himself
- He decided to go find out the truth about his past instead of listening to many
suggestions that he just let it go, which, in this case, not knowing the painful
truth about himself might have given him much less of a suffering than what
he decided to do otherwise.

Argument 2 (Taiji)
- Free-will cause fate (future is decided by the will of our action)
- The action is what run the story
- Fate is just like a prediction but we have control over our body to do whatever we
want.
- The oracles only know the result or the end product of all the actions but they don’t
really know what makes up to that point.
- Fate doesn’t make people do things, but Free-will makes people to make move.
- The action create consequences that shape future.
- Destiny is what you create for yourself. Fate is when you fail to create your own
destiny. - Sadhguru
Argument 3 (Pat, and a little bit of Nut)
- As human has choices to decide how they act and every action led to a particular
consequence, there is a chance that, in one of the parallel world, life of Oedipus
wouldn’t end as a tragedy
Evidences:
- The earliest hints of the multiverse are found in two ancient Greek schools of thought,
the Atomists and the Stoics. The atomic collisions also give rise to an endless number
of other, parallel worlds less perfect than our own. Unlike the Atomists, who described
reality without recourse to a divine being, the Stoics saw the cosmos to be imbued with
an eternal, indestructible soul.
- Tiresias was called as the “Medium to other worlds” which can be interpreted as one
of the proof of the “parallel world” or multiverse concepts

Rebuttal (Neno, June, Sand)

group - Free will does not really exist, everything happens because of fate
=> Oedipus unknowingly fulfill his destiny thinking that it’s his own choice.
Find Quote to support this

- Free will does not really exist, everything happens because of fate
=> This argument shouldn’t be made, since we can also say “Fate does not really exist,
everything happens because of free will” too.
Fate would only be an excuse for those who did something wrong and unwilling to
accept their mistake

- Unawareness is also an effect of Oedipus’ fate, Oedipus meeting and killing his father
without knowing
=> It is because the sets of actions that Oedipus’ parents “chose” to abandon them,
shepherd “chose” to save Oedipus, Oedipus “chose” to leave Thebes

- “Coincidence leads to fate”

- Line 700 “would” - cannot be decide => Oedipus chose to believe in what the blind
man said => led to reason where Oedipus follow the “fate”
- It is can be explained that it is a prediction = of a statement that being made
may goes both way (wrong or right) => from that, it is the choice for Oedipus
to choose to follow it due to the fact that he did not know about his adoptive
parents

- Free will:
- It is the shepard’s “free will” to left Oedipus on the mountain instead of kill
him like Laius’s command
- It is Oedipus “free will” to trust what the blind man said during the party
about his unpredictable future
- Leading to his own “free will” to left the city because what? He believed that
the Corinth was his parents. And also it is their parents’ choice to choose not
tell him the truth about his adoption. From that, he has believed that the
Corinth was his parents.
- That is Oedipus own choice to kill the “strange man” which involving in a
road range. You see? The strange man on the road! Did he know that was his
own father? NO!

- Fate would not exist if there’s no free will because nothing would happen at all
- Page 13 show that oedipus is so persisted to know who is the man who murdered Laius
 Rebuttal notes:
- Find the flaw in each person statement with quote and small detail, word choice.
- Point out each person mistake and find reasons that can counter them

Summary (Print, Van, Mint)

group P
- The story is occurred as the consequence of the one’s actions, which is according to
their will that wants to fight with their fate.
- For example, the story is starting when father of Oedipus decided to kill his own son
by his willing to escape from his fate. However, if father of Oedipus decided not to kill
his own son, this story won’t be existed.
- Fate is a prediction only one path of infinite probability, but free will is the thing that
indicate the probability that we chose.
M
- Oedipus behaves on his own. such as killing a man, promising to banish Laius’s killer,
continuing to discover the truth, taking his eyes out, not breaking the promise -- His own
actions lead to his doom/this consequence
- His free will of trying to go against the prophecy runs the story. Not fate.
- As for free will, Oedipus' actions, temper, impulsive nature and pride (hubris) as well as his
erroneous judgment (hamartia) all contributed to his eventual downfall.
V
- Fate is only the predicted outcome of a person life but free will is the power that guide a
person to act in a particular way which leads them to different paths of living.
- Last Quote “​Fate and free will are equally powerful forces but I consider free will to be more
important as it is your free will that determines your fate.” - Vyasa

Sources “...” Page() - Line()

List websites,
articles, videos, Fate: ​https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fate
quotes, and Free-will: ​https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/free-will
authors/organiz ​http://alumni.media.mit.edu/~spiegel/papers/Oedipus_Tyrranus.pdf
ations. ​https://essaychief.com/research-essay-topic.php?essay=3217266&title=Oedipus-Fate
 ​-Vs-Free-Will

Multiverse: ​http://cosmos.nautil.us/short/128/the-multiverse-is-an-ancient-idea
Quote: ​https://www.azquotes.com/quote/1428250
Debate Format

Main Arguments - Fate 6 minutes

Main Arguments - Free Will 6 minutes

Working Period 5 minutes

Rebuttals - Free Will 5 minutes

Rebuttals - Fate 5 minutes

Working Period 5 minutes

Summary - Fate 4 minutes

Summary - Free Will 4 minutes

Total Time = 40 minutes

Ideas:
- Definition (Longman dictionary):
- Fate (n.) - a power that is believed to control what happens in people’s lives
- Free will (n.) - to do something because you want to and not because someone forces you
to
- Definition (Google’s Dictionary, Wikipedia):
- Fate = the development of events beyond a person's control, regarded as determined by a
supernatural power.
- Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded.
- Fate is just like a prediction but we have control over our body to do whatever we want.
- Free-will cause fate (future is decided by the will of our action)
- Fate is an illusion(parodying Pair), in the story there’s only prediction or
prophecy, which is shape by free will:
- The shepherd spare Oedipus by choice.
- If the shepherd killed Oedipus, then all of this could have been
avoided.
- The Corinth King and Queen lied to Oedipus by choice.
- If Corinth’s king and queen didn’t lied to Oedipus, then he
would have stayed in Corinth.
- The King and Queen of Thebes chose to leave Oedipus on the mountain
- Oedipus chose to leave Corinth to Thebes by himself
- It’s sad to just think that Oedipus’ birth is a mistake.
-
- Example of Oedipus free will actions: investigating to discover the truth, gouging his
eyes out, killing laius, etc.
- The action is what run the story
- If somebody told you your birth is a mistake, then what would you do?
- Greeks gods are dumb? They’re a bit of a jerk and they aren’t worth
Worshipping?​ ​Can I be racist here?
 - (​source​) His actions support the argument that free will does exist. He knew what was
prophesied yet still acted in rage and committed murder rather than trying to avoid it.
- (​source​) But with free will, you make your own decisions; if you make a mistake in your
decision, then you have face the consequences.
- (​source​) Free Will
- Immediately after hearing he will kill his father and marry his mother, he kills
someone and gets married.
- Continues search for truth ignoring pleas of Tiresias, Jocasta, and Chorus
-
- Oedipus has the right to choose and held his responsible for his action.

- Fate gives you possibilities but you can choose which path you will go. The prophecy tell them
that there is a chance Oedipus would kill his father and marry his mother. But if they did try to
raise him properly, will he still fulfill the prophecy?

Famous Quote about fate and free will:

​Fate and free will are equally powerful forces but I consider free will to be more important as it is
your free will that determines your fate. - Vyasa
Destiny is what you create for yourself. Fate is when you fail to create your own destiny. -
Sadhguru

Free-will:
- He decides to pursue the facts about his past despite many suggestions that he let
it go; he wouldn’t have to suffer this much if he didn’t find out the truth.
Source: https://www.litcharts.com/lit/oedipus-rex/themes/fate-vs-free-will

Multiverse: ​http://cosmos.nautil.us/short/128/the-multiverse-is-an-ancient-idea

FATE

- Shepard saved Oedipus

- Oedipus heard Apollo’s prophecy and left the town (Corinth)
- Prophecy came true
- Do we have control of our life?
- Fate is predetermined as it’s dictated
- There is only one ending
- Every decision and effort of avoiding the prophecy led everything to the outcome
- He follow his destiny by stabbing his own eyes
- Nature guide everything so that it will go according to fate
- Due to fate, Oedipus turned from a hero into a curse
- Laius and Jocasta, due to the power of fate, tried to kill Oedipus
- What will be will be

- He chose to leave the city

- With every reasons behind their decision
- Not quite unwillingly, he chose to do it no one force him to leave the city
- Fate cannot be changed? Avoid it because of fate
- intervene ex send to die however he survived —power of fate
 - Must? Or might?
- Can reject - it’s his choice
- It was predicted, not set
- How does freewill is an
- He made his choice ไงงงงงงง
- May
- Would
- Choosing to kill
- He stabbed his eyes because he chose to thinking that he does not deserve the beautiful
sight
- Jocasta ​decided​ - because she “ believes” it was her/him choice

คือ if that man killed oedipus, then oedipus wouldn’t have kill his parents. So how can you say it is fate, because if
that man did chose to kill oedipus then his parents would not die by his own hand. It was that man’s choice to
opposoed the king and queen’s order, and he chose ​not ​to kill, so it was his decision that affects the death of oedipus
parents, not fate.

(Neno)
Many of the argument provided by fate team are flaw. Many quotes exempt from the book have the word would but
not will.
According to dictionary ​(expressing the conditional mood) indicating the consequence of an
imagined event or situation. Does not garantee
Blind oracle to speak out the truth

- Killed his own father + married his mother. Pair said “would”
- Decision => but he chose to => b’cos he did not want to see his current situation and
seeing his own mother as his own wife.
- Power of fate => motivates + prevention => does not you mean that it is a free will for
them to choose to kill his son
- Bell => fate could be avoided => free will now take a big part of an action that lead to the
result => Fate is support ……. Fate does not not exist cannot

The end is only the destination, not the jouney.

He wasn’t left
Maybe free will?
He tried ไง so it was his choice
Predicted is a forsee

Not a “set”
He see what the future of what will happen - what they chose to do
So it is our choice that makes the prediction - it is because of what we choose that affects the
prediction - because the prediction is the forsee of what “will” happen, or in other words, what
we choose to do

If fate said that you will die tommorow, and you choose to put a kniife on your throat and slit it,
how can you die tommorow.

One beginning and one ending

All events might have a definite starting and ending point. But there is uncertainty as to what
happens in between, because it is us who choose what we will do. So it was free will that
shaped fate, because without people choosing to believe it, fate does not exist.