Chic Eder Deposition

SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NE\'1 YOP.
COUNTY OF NEW YORK

----------- --------- --- ----------------x
CHIC EDER,
Plaintiff,
-aga inst-
ALAN J. NEBERMAN a/k/a A. J.

WEBERM.l\N, WILLIAM J. RYAN ,
MARIANNE PARTRIDGE, RUPER.T
MURDOCH and THE VILLAGE VOICE,
INC.,
Defendants.
---------------- ---- --- --------- - - -----x
Deposition of plaintiff CHIC EDER , taken
by def e nd q nt ALAN J. WEI3ERl1AN , p ursu a nt to notice
dated Feb r uary 2, 1979, at the offices of David
S. Michae ls, Esq ., 342 Madison Avenue, New Yo rk,
N. Y. 10017, on February 16, 1 9 79, at 2:00 p .m.,
before Shary n L. Bamber, a Shorthand Reporter
and No far y Public of the State of New Yo rk.
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

C ERTI FI ED S H O RTH A,.., 0 REPO R TE RS
15 P A R K ROW. N .Y . 1 0038
PHONES: 349-3 1 08-9

1 2
2 APPEARANCES:
3 Messrs. ROSENSTEIN & KAHN,

Attorneys for p laintiff ,
4 225 Broadway
New York, N . Y . 1000 7
5 BY: MAPC KAHN I ESQ . I
Of Counsel
6
DAVIDS . MICHAELS, ESQ.,
7 Attorney for defendant Alan J. Weberman,
342 Madison Ave nue
8 New York , N. Y. 1001 7
9 ALSO PRESENT:
A. J. WEBER.MAN
10
11
oOo
12
13
IT IS HEREBY STI PULATED AND AGREED , by and
14
between the attorneys for the r especti ve pa rti e s
15
hereto that a ll rights provided by the CP LR , in-
16
e l uding ~~e right to object to a ny ques tion, except
17
as to the f orm, or to move to strike any t es timony
18
at this deposition , are reserved , a nd, in addition,
19
t h e failure to object to a n y ques tion, or to move
20
• #
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to strike te s timony at this deposition , shall not
be a ba r or waiver to make s uch mo tion at, and is
reserved for , the trial of this action.

23
IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that
24
this deposition may be sworn to, by the witnes s
25
B LI TZ REPORTIN G CO.
15 PARK R OW, N.Y. 1 0038 PHONES: 3 4 9-3108 - 9
1 3
2 being examined, before a Notary Public other than
3 the Notary Public before whom this deposition was
4 begun, but t,'1e failure to do so, or to return the
••• 5
6
original of this deposition to counsel, shall not
be deemed waiver of the rights provided by Rule
7 3116, CPLR, and shall be controlled thereby.
8 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that
9 the filing and certification of the original of
this deposition are waived.

10
11
oOo
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MR. KAHN: Before we begin the deposition

14
of Mr. Eder, I would like the record to note it is
15
now 10 after 2 p .m., and that the attorneys for Mr.
16
William Ryan, Mr. Rupert Murdoch and The Village
17
Voice have not appeared this afternoon.
18
The record should also note they served
19
., 20
21
22
a notice to take deposition upon oral examination of
Mr. Eder, dated February 2, which I received Febru-
ary 5th, and that subsequently the attorneys for the
above-named defendants agreed they would be present

23
in Mr. Michaels' office this afternoon, on the 16th,
24
in order that both depositions could proceed at the
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BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROV.1 , N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 4
2 same time and explicitly, so that Mr. Eder, who is
3 here from out of town, would not have to be unduly
4 inconvenienced.
• 5
6
The record should also note that this
morning at 10:30 I received a telephone call from
7 Mr. Slade Metcalf, who is counsel to the above-
8 named defendants who for the first time advised me
9 that because of the presence of office work in his
10 office he did not choose to attend this deposition.
11
I pointed out to Mr. Metcalf that my client had
12 flown into New York especially for this deposition,
13 from out of town and in fact from overseas, and that
14 this would work an extreme hardship on Mr. Eder. I
15 further pointed out that since this was Mr. Metcalf's
notice of deposition, I expected him to be here and

16
if he preferred not to attend the deposition, we
17
would assume he had waived his rights to depose Hr.
18
Eder and that we would seek additional relief as
19
necessary under the CPLR.
20
I served a letter to that effect on Mr.

21
Metcalf this morning, a copy of which I would like
22
to put into this record and I would also like to put
23
into the record a copy of my client's passport.
24
Just a notation for the record, my client'
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK RO\'/, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3109-9
1 5
2 passport
3 THE WITNl.:SS: Showed I arrived here
4 from out of the count ry last nir,ht at 7:20.
• 5
6
MR . KAHN : At JFK Airport.
Aeain, explicitly for the purpose
of attending this deposition.

7
8 Having said that, we are prepared to
9 go forth with Mr . Ede~ ' s deposit i on n ot i ced by l'~r .
10 Michaels, on behalf of hi s c lie nt, A. J . Weberman .
C H I C E D E R, plaintiff, called as a witn es s

11
12 by the defendant Alan J. Weberman, be ing first
13 duly swo rn by the Notary Public ( Sharyn L . Bamber ),
14 testified as follows:
15
EXAMINATION BY MR . MICHAELS:
Q Would you s tate your full l egal name , please?

16
A My l egal name, as far as the courts , Chic
17
Ede r .
18
Q What is the name appeari ng o n y o ur bi rth
19
certifi ca te?
20
MR . KAHN : Off the record .
21
(Di s cussion off the r ec ord.)
22
MR. KAHN: I am goine to objec t
23
because it is irrelevant for any purpose tha t
24
pertains to this examinat ion.
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BLITZ REPORTING C O.
15 PARK R O W. N.Y. 10038 PH O NES: 349-3 1 08- 9
1 Eder
2 MR. MICHAELS: Asking his name?
THE WITNESS: You are asking the name

3
4
that appears on my birth certificate? I refuse to
• 5
6
answer that question.
MR. KAHN:
directing him to answer that, you can.

If you want to seek an order
7
8 BY MR. MICHAELS:
9 Q What is your legal name?
A Chic Eder.
10
Q Have you ever used any other name?
11
A I have used numerous other names.
12
Q What names?
13
A I prefer not to answer that question.
14
MR. KAHN: Again, I object to that as
15
not being relevant to the instant proceeding. I
16
direct him not to answer that question.
17
A I would like to state for the· ·record that I am
18
known only by that name at this point in time.
19
Q I-Ia\re you ever been kno\vn to any government
20
agencies under any other names?
21
A Possibly.
22
Q What names?
23
A It's irrelevant to this case and I refuse to
24
answer it.
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO .
. 1·5 PARK RO\'J, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1
Eder 7
2
MR. MICHAELS: Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)

3
MR. MICHAELS: On the record.
4
• 5
7
Q Do you concede you have, in. the course of your
life, used various other names, other than the one you are
now telling us is your name?
8 A I do, but I 'vant to add to that that I have
never appeared before any cotirt, body or governmental

9
agency in this decade, the seventies, by any other name.
10
Q Did you ever appear before a court, body or
11
governmental agency at any time under another name?
12
A Not in this decade.
13
Yes, in the sixties or prior, I have.
14
Q How many times?

15
A I have been in court? I never appeared before
16
a grand jury at any time anywhere to testify before a grand
17
jury.
18
Q The question, if you recall, is whether you
19
at any time, whether prior to the seventies or durincr the
20
• 21
22
seventies, appeared before any court, grand jury, or any
governmental agency under any other name?
MR. RAHN: I instruct him not to answer

23
that.
24
A I don't remember. I am stating categorically
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

0036 PHONES= 3<19-3\0B-9
1
Eder· 8
2 that I have not appeared in this decade, the seventies,
3 before any one under any other name except Eder.
I will make one concession here that I used

4
\
•· 5
6
the name Philip.
Q Is that your name?
Yes, that is my name.

7 A
8 Q Is it the name that you were born with?
A No, it is not the name I was born with.

9
Q Again, what is the name you were horn with?

10
MP.. KAHN: Here again, I am going to
11
object to that as being irrelevant to the proceeding.
12
Q Where and when were you born?
13
A In New York City in 1931.
14
Q On what date?
15
A I don't think I want to give him that informa-
16
tion.
17
MR. KAHN: Again, I object to the
18
relevancy as to the specific date of his birth. It
19
has nothing to do with any of the issues raised in
20
the compaint or any conceivable defense to the issues
21
raised in the complaint.
22
Q Mr. Eder, isn't i t true you have provided in-
23
formation to different government agencies under different
24
names?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. l 0038 PHONES: 349·3\0B-9
1
2 HR. KAHN:
Eder
I object to the question.

8
HP.. MI CHAE LS : It is certainly relevant.
3
MR. KAHN: It is too broadly based for --

4
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6
Q Have you ever given information to a government
agency under any other names other than Chic Eder?
MR. KAHN: It presumes a conclusion.

7
MR. HICHAELS: I am asking whether in

8
fact, I am not concluding that. I am asking whether

9
it occurred, whether you have given information to

10
government agencies under any other name?
11
A Not in the seventies.
12
Q Prior to that?
13
A Possibly. I have been arrested on numerous ]

occasions and in court on numerous occasions. If that be-
15
ing the case, then I have testified in my own cases and I
16
have given information to the government and it may have
17
been under another name.
18
Look, what I am trying to get across to you,
19
Nr. Michaels, is simply the most you could hope to go back
20
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on this is ten years with me because beyond ten years, I
am not going to tell you anything, unless the court orders
me to tell you that. So now, we know exactly what we are
dealing with here.

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BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15- PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349·3106-9
1 Eder 10
2 (Discussion off the record.)
3
MP.. MICHAELS: Back on the record.
4 Q During the 1970's, have you ever given in-
• 5
6
formation to any governmental law enforcement agency or
prosecutorial agencies under the name of Philip Eder or
7 chic Eder?
8 MR. KAHN: I ask you to clarify that.
9 Do you mean during the time of a trial in which he
10
was a witness in a trial?
MR. MICHAELS: No. I mean during the

11
course of investigation, indictment proceeding,
12
trial or any matter related to any law enforcement

13
14 agency.
MR. KAHN: I find the question objection...:

15
able because of the breadth and lack of specificity.
16
If you specify a specific instance or agency, I will
17
not object to his answering.
18
Q Did you ever give information under the name
19
of Philip Eder or Chic Eder or any other name to any agency
20
• 21
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or representative of the Drug Enforcement Administration or
predecessor agencies?
A Yes, I have. Yes, I have but i t never had

23
anything to do with any individuals; it only had to do with-
24
MR. KAHN: Off the record.
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

lS PARK ROY/, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
Eder 11
1
MR. KAHN: Back on the record.

3
4 A It only has to do with technological -- dis-
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6
cussion of technological operations of their computer
system.
Q Let me go back a little bit and ask you a

7
8 little more by way of background.
9 Where were you educated?
A Folsom Prison, California. I graduated as

10
valedictorian of my class in 1966, I believe.
11
Q Did you have any education prior to that?
12
13 A Not to speak of.
Q Where did you grow up?

14
A New York.
15
Q Did you have any education subsequent to that?
16
A Yes.
17
Q Could you specify, piease?
18
A Ventura College, Stony Brook University.
19
Q You registered as a student at both institu-
20
• 21
22
tions you named?
A No.
but was not registered.

I was a student at Stony Brook University
I may have been, but I don't think

23
so. I wasn't registered formally, but I may show up on
24
the records.
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROVI, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 Eder 12
2 Q Hhat years were those?
3 A February, Harch and part of April of 1973 and
4 in part of the semester beginning in January of 1975. Both
• 5
6
Stony Brook University.
A
When were you first arrested?
Probably 1944 or 1945.

7
8 Q How old <-1ere you at the time?
9 A Thirteen years of age.
Q h'hat was the charge?

10
A Possession of marijuana.
11
12
Q What happened to the case?
13 A I went to reformatory.
Q For how long?

14
A I managed to stretch that out into years; I
15
don't know how many. Three, probably.
16
Q Which refor·matory?
17
A I won't answer that. ·I would rather not answer
18
that unless ordered to by a court.
19
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MR. KAHN: The name of the reformatory in
20
which he was incarcerated is irrelevant to any de-
21
fense and to the issues in this proceeding.
22
HR. MICHAELS: Off the record:
23
24
MR. MICHAELS: Back on the record.
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, f'J.Y, 10038 PHONES: 349-3\06-9
1
2 Q
Eder
Mr. Eder, is it your position in this case

G
3 your reputation as a criminal has been defamed?
4 A No. As an outlaw.
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7
Q
Q
What do you mean by that?
As someone who lives outside of the law.
As someone '"ho violates the law?
8 A Possibly as someone who violates the law.
9 Q What do you claim your reputation is as an
10 outlaw, as you call it?
11
A To quote Bob Dylan,,. "To live outside the law,
12 you must be honest." To put another person in a prison
13 cell in your place is dishonest, and my statement is I
14 have at no time put another person, by trading myself, into
15 a prison cell.
Q Your claim here is it is your reputation as

16
'
an honest outlaw which has been defamed?
17
18 A That is correct.

19
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A
MR. KAHN: Back on the record.
It has also hurt my business reputation in the
legitimate businesses which I am involved in at the present
time.
24
Q Is that your statement or have you been advised
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349·3108-9
1 Eel er 14
2 to state that by your attorney?
3 MR. KAHN: Off the record.
4 (Discussion off the record.}
• 5
7
A
Q
MR. KAHN:
It is my statement.
Back on the record.
Let's pursue the question of your history as
s an outlaw. When were you next arrested?
A Well, I can't honestly tell you that.

9
me think about it for a moment. I know I was arrested in
10
1950.
11
Q On what charge?
12
A Tire Act. Stolen car across the state line.
13
Q What happened to that case?
14
A Probation.
15
Q When were you next arrested?
16'
A Again, I don't --
17
Q Excuse me. Let me back up and withdraw that
18
question and ask instead, did you plead guilty to a felony
19
in the 1950 prosecution you just discussed?
20
• 21
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A
A
That is correct.
When were you next arrested?
I might have been arrested -- You want to know

23
when was the next time I was convicted?
24
Q No, I am asking the next time you were arrested.
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BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 3"9-3108-9
1 Eder
2 A I don't know.
3 Q How many times have you been arrested?
;. 4
6
A
rap sheet.
Q
I can't count them. I have a nine or ten-page
Can you estimate for us the approximate number
7 of arrests you have?
8 A No, because a lot of those notations on the
9 rap sheet deal with the felony conviction registration
10 which was legal at that time and you had to register as
having been convicted of a felony in places such as Las

11
12 Vegas and Miami Beach and you have to state you have been
13 arrested and every time you did this, a notation would
14 go on your rap sheet, so I can't answer that.
Q About how many times have you been arrested?

15
A Twenty.
16
Q About how many times have you been convicted
17
of any crime?
18
A Other than as a juvenile, at least six.
19
Q How many of those were felony convictions?
20
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22
A
Q
.i
!~
All of them .
What crimes, to the best of your knowledge,
were you convicted of, aside from the Tire Act you told
23
us about?
24
A Possession of marijuana.
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK RO . 49.
1 Eder
2 Q How many times?
3 A At least three or four; probably more. I was
4 convicted of possession of marijuana in 19 -- I believe
5 1959. That was in Federal Court in Miami.
6 I was convicted of possession of marijuana,
7 State Court, in San Francisco, California, in I believe
8 1964, and I went to prison.
9 I was again arrested for possession of or con-
victed of possession of marijuana and possession of-~ No,

10
just possession of marijuana in 1968.
11
In '70 or '71 I was convicted of possession of
12
13 marijuana and possession of firearm, leading from the dis-
14 turbances in Isla Vista, California, 'which is in Santa
Barbara, California.
15
Q In fact, didn't that last incident you told us
16
about involve the burning of the Bank of America?
17
A It had to do with -- It had to do with the
18
incidents that took place around the burning of the Bank
19
of America.
20
• 21
22
Q
Bank of America.
Here you one of the individuals convicted?
No, I was never convicted for burning the
23
Q But rather for what?
24
A Possession of a firearm.
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

~ 15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 Eder
2 Q As a felony?
3 A It's a felony. Up to five years in the State
4 of California.
5 Q Is that the entire record you have told us
6 about now?
7 A No, I have only gotten up to the early 197D's.
8 Q Please proceed.
9 A I am presently on appeal on a conviction of
10 possession of marijuana in the State of Florida.
Q As a felony?
11
12 A As a felony.
13 Q Is that the complete record? Have you now
14 told us of all of your arrests and convictions?
A I don't know if I have listed all of the

15
arrests, since I don't have my rap sheet here. I think i t
16
is sufficient for your purposes.
17
Q Have you told us about all of your convictions?
18
A Ny convictions?
19
Q Yes.
20
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A Let me think about it a minute.
convicted of escape from prison.
Q When?
I have been
23
A December 8, 1974.
24
Q Where?
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BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3\06-9
1 Eder
2 A Pardon me, mistake. I escaped
3 1972 and left a note telling them what day ,I would be back,
4 and the day was May 8, 1972 and I returned on that date
5 and was subsequently tried for escape and convicted of
6 escape.
7 Q Have you now told us about all of the convic-
8 tions?
9 A Let me think about it for a minute.
10 I will reiterate: The original conviction,
11 which I believe the record was expunged, was possession
12
of marijuana, thirte.en or fourteen.
13 Next, Tire Act, which I don't think appears
14 on any record, in 1950. Then I was convicted -- Let me
make that completely clear~- I am not talking of arrests.

15
I am talking about those things I was convicted of -- con-
16
victed of marijuana in a federal court in Miami in 1959.
17
Next, possession of marijuana and possession
18
of stolen property, another charge, in 1964 in San Francisco
19
California.
20
Next, 1968, I was arrested in Ventura,
21
California and convicted of another marijuana possession.
22
There were other arrests involved around that
23
period; none of which resulted in conviction.
24
The next one was in '71 -- '70 or '71. To be
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15. PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 3"9-3106-9
1 Erler
2 cl e a r o n that, for pos s es s ion of marijuana
3 of a fire bomb . That is what I was convicted of in
4 Isla Vista, California.
5 The next conviction was Miami , Florida, about
6 a year and a half ago , on a plea of guilty to possession
7 of marijuana.
8 And I have not been convicted of anything since
9 that case is on appeal.
10 Q ivha t prison did you escape from?
11
A California State.
12 Q Tell us, p l ease , approximate ly how much
13 marijuana was involved as to the conviction --
14 A Seven joints. Se ven marijuana cigare ttes.
15
Q Which case are you referring to?
A When I was a kid.
Q Next?
17
A In California -- The next one was Mi a mi. I
18
think I would be safe in saying it was less than a quarte r
19
of an o unce . I think it wa s some thing like eig ht or te n
20
g rams or something like that.
21
Q Go on.
22
A The next conviction wa s for a very -- again a
23
very small amount of marijuana ; certainly not any g rand
24
scale. I don't remember how much . It wasn't e noug h to
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

1 ~ PARK ROW. N .Y . 1 0036 PH O N E S' 349-3106-9
1 Eder
2 really talk about it.
3 Q Under an ounce?
4 A I believe so, but I'm not sure on that one.
• 5
7
Q
A
Under a pound?
Here we are dealing
are dealing with a case in 1964 in San Francisco.

I believe so. Here we
8 In the 1968 case, I think there was a pound
9 involved in that, in the 1968 case.
10 In the case in Santa Barbara, which took place
in '70 or '71, we are talking about a joint or maybe two

11
joints. That was all that was involved in that one.
12
13 I believe the one in Miami was 5,300 pounds.
Q Any others?
A Any other convictions? None.

15
Q \Vhat l.'laS the stolen property?
16
A Some wigs.
17
Q You have told us you have done various time
18
in jail. Would you tell us, please, taking each conviction
19
that resulted in a jail sentence, tell me what the sentence
20
•
was?
21
A As a kid, I went to the reformatory. The
22
second conviction was probation. The third conviction,
23
which took place in 1959, resulted in my going to, first,
24
to the United States Public Health Service Hospital in
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 HONFS: 349-31 8-9
...... ----
1
2 Lexington, Ke ntucky a nd then to the United States Peni t e n-

LY
3 tiary in Atlanta, Georgia.
4 Q Would y ou g o on, please?
e 5 A 1964, the conviction in San Francisco,
6 California resulted in, 1964 to 1 968 , I was in Folsom
7 Prison, Ca lifo r nia's maximum custody p rison.
8 The 1968 conviction -- that may have been '68,
9 '69. It might have been '69. In fac t, I bel i eve that wa s
10 a 19 6 9 conviction, a nd I went to the California Rehabilita-
11
tion Center in Corona , Cali f ornia.
12 In the 1970, 1971 conviction, I wa s sent to
13 Chino, California, San Quentin, Soledad, Folsom, CMC,
14 Teh achap i, San Quentin, Folsom , CMC, San Quentin, Folsom,
15
CMC. Tha t was my i t inerary.
Q Is that i t?
16
A Yes , that 's it.
17
Q Yo u h ave spent no othe r time in jail other
18
t h a n what you told us?
19
A I have been in a lot of j ai ls. We are talking
20
about my convictions.
21
Q Tell me about other jails yo u have been in.
22
A I can't count them.
23
Q App r oximately how many?
24
A Fifty. I have b een in fifty j a ils.
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK RO W . N.Y. 1 0038 PHONES: 349 - 3 \0 8· 9
1 Eder
2 Q Have you been a heroin addict?
3 A Most definitely, for eleven years. 1

4 Q Have you spent more than half your life in jail?
• 5
6 I
A
am 48.
I have spent approximately 18 years in jail and -
]
7 Q Have you ever told anybody you spent half your
8 life in jails?
9 A It's very possible.
10 MR. KAHN: Objection as to form. You
11 have to be more specific as to when and who.
12 Q Did you ever tell Mr. Albert Goldman you have
13 spent half your life in jail?
14 A It's possible, since when I first met Albert
15 Goldman I would have spent half my life in jail.
16
Q Going to the -- It was 5,300 pounds
A I haven't been in prison for that.

17
Q Do you know why?
18
A The case is on appeal.
19
20
Q Is there a sentence that has been passed?
•
A Three years.
21
Q What court does that derive from?
22
A Miami.
23
Q Your alleged reputation as an honest outlaw
24
was gained therefore in what kind of enterprises, what kind
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15. PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 Eder
2 of activities?
3 A My ·1i fe style.
4 Q Does your life style involve violating any
• 5
7
particular law?
Q
Certainly.
Which?
8 MR. KAHN: I object to that question.
9 MR. MICHAELS: The man claims his reputa-
10 tion is defamed. I asked about what his background
11 is with regard to that reputation.
12 MR. KAHN: You are asking him to identify
13 a specific legal statute.
14 THE WITNESS: Yes, I can identify the
15
statute as the marijuana laws. I have broken all
the marijuana laws.

16
Q You have broken the marijuana sale law repeated-
17
ly, have you not?
18
A I most certainly have. I used to sell it to
19
your client.
20
Q You say you sell it. You are speaking in the

21
present tense?
22
A No, you didn't ask me that. You asked me if
23
I sold marijuana. I sold marijuana.
24
Q De you presently?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1
2 A No, I don't have any.

Eder
@
Q When did you most recently do so?
3
4 A Sell marijuana?
• 5
7
Q
A
Yes.
I think that's irrelevant.
MR. KAHN: I object to that.
A If you want to ask me when I last sold marijuana

8
to your client, I would be happy to answer that.

9
Q Thank you for your solicitous concern.
10
Are you telling us that your reputation as an
11
honest outlaw was derived from the marijuana business?
12
A Part of it was.
13
Q \·/hat was the other part?
14
A The outlaw life style.
15
Q What does that outlaw life style involve? What
16
do you mean?
17
A How you live your life as an outlaw: Do you
18
do business in a correct manner, are you honest in your
19
present dealings with other outlaws and other people.
20
•
T2 Q With regard to the cases that you have told us
21
about that involved either your arrest or your conviction
22
A Excuse me, I want to clarify that. I am not
23
stating on this record that what I told you about my ar-
24
rests is the sum total of my arrests. Let's make that very
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349.3\08-9
1 Eder 25
2 clear. I don't want anybody to come back and tell me I
3 lied to you. I am just dealing with my convictions. I
4 can remember the convictions; I can't possibly remember
• 5
7
the number of arrests.
in one week.
Q
I have been arrested ten times
Could the number of arrests be possibly over
s a hundred?
9 A The number of arrests are all on the rap sheet
10 and sometime.between now and the time we go to court, that
11 rap sheet will appear.
12 Q In the course of any of the arrests or the
13 prosecutions resulting from those arrests, whether or not
14 they led to convictions, did you ever give information to
15 any government investigative or prosecutorial agency?
MR. KAHN: I object to that question again

16
on the grounds of the breadth and I ask you to be
17
more specific about what you were talking and ·when.
18
19
20
•
21
Q Mr. Eder, have you ever given information, in
22
the course of any criminal investigation or prosecution,
23
to the United States Customs Service?
24
A At no time.
25
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15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108·9
1 Eder 26
2 Q To the United States Coast Guard?
3 A At no time.
4 Q To the United States Drug Enforcement Adminis-
5 tration or its predecessors?
6 A Only to the United States Drug Enforcement
7 Administration and I stated prior to that what that in-
8 formation was. That information was dealing with a leak
9 they had in.their computer. There was a method of gaining
10
access to information coming out of their computers and I
11
plugged that leak for them.
12 Wait a minute, I want to finish stating that
13 I have an understanding with government agencies I wi°ll at
14 no time be asked questions that may lead to an arrest or
15 conviction.
Q Have you ever given information to the FBI?

16
A Oh, yes, definitely.
17
Q How many times?
18
A Once.
19
Q Under what circumstances?
20
•
A I made a deal with the United States Government
21
Federal Bureau of Investigation to ascertain whether or not
22
their telephones were in fact capable of being tapped. I
23
then tapped their telephones and sold them that information
24
in order to get myself and other people out of problems with
25
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15 PARK ROV.'. N.Y. \0038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 Eder 27
)
2 the United States Government.
3 Q Did you ever give the information to any United
4 States attorney, assistant United States attorney or as-
• 5
7
sistant district attorney?
the question.
MR. KAHN: I object to the formation of
Specify some definable time period or
8 locality that he can refer to.
9 Q Did you ever give information to any assistant
10 district attorney in the State of New York or in the State
11
of Florida?
12 A About what?
13 Q About any criminal investigation or court pro-
14 ceedings.
A Criminal or court proceedings?

15
MR. KAHN: Again, I object as to the form.
16
Are you referring to an investigation or court pro-
17
ceeding with respect to Mr. Eder or an investigation
18
or court proceeding with respect to any other person?
19
Q I will ask both. With respect to yourself,
20
•
with respect to an investigation or court proceeding con-
21
cerning yourself as a defendant or prospective defendant,
22
did you ever give information to an assistant U.S. attorney
23
or an assistant district attorney in New York, Florida or
24
California?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROVJ, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349°3108-9
I Eder (;;;)
2 A Yes.
l1? I
3 Q How many times?
4 A Well , I had a case up here and I had cases
5 down in Florida and I had cases in California . Since I
6 was appearing propria perso na, in many cases I represented
7 myself and I had reason to come in contact with assistant
8 district attorneys.
9 Q With regard to any criminal investig ation or
10 prosecution of any other pe rsons, have you ever given any
11
information to any investigati ve agency or prosecutorial
12 agency in any of those thre e states?
13 A Let me be very clear about this: With regard
14 to any informa tion or any testimony that might lead to an
arrest or conviction of any human being, I ha ve not given

15
a ny info rmat ion to any agency or a.nyone, period . That will
16
solve t hat .
17
Now , I may ha ve g i ven info rmation but I was
18
always very careful to make i t clear that the in f orma tion
19
that I wa s giving, I woul d n ' t be asked any questions. I
20
refused to d e al with any questions that would lead to any-
e 21
one's convic tion or arrest.
22
Q You may have given info rmat ion, with r e gard to
23
other people, to law e nfor cement agencies or prosecutors?
24
A No . No, b ecause --
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW. N.Y. 1 003 8 P HO N ES: 349-3108- 9
1 Ede r 29
2 Q Did you not just say , "I may have g i ve n in-
3 formation "?
A I have given information. I told y ou that . I

4
s have g iven information with regard to the tappi ng of
6 government t e l ephones . The entire governme nt network, I
7 found a way to get into it and I sold them that in fo rma tion
8 and then I found a way to get into their computers, the
9 National Crime Info rma tion Center c omputers, and the
10
El Paso Info rmation Center computer. That's it.
Q Those are the only time s y ou have ever give n

11
12
information?
13 A That is absolutely correct. Tha t is the only
time I have ever given that information. I hav e made it

14
clear to whomsoever I wa s dealing with tha t I would at no
15
time g ive them any informa tion that might l ead to an ar-
16
r e st or conviction.
17
Q Yet you therefore are co nced ing t o us that in
18
c e rt a in limited ways y ou s pecified that you we re an e mployee
19
of certain government --
20
A At no time h ave I ever been a n emp loyee of any
21
government agency .
22
Q Have you b een paid by - -
23
A At no time have I ever b ee n paid by a ny go ver n-
24
ment agency for a ny information, categorically.
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK R OW, N .Y. 1 003 6 PH O NE S' 349-3 1 OB- 9
1 Eder 30
2 Q Here you paid for the assistance you gave them
3 with regard to the computer or telephone?
4 A I was not paid even expense money. I never re-
• 7
5
6
ceived -- They attempted at one time to reimburse me for
air fare across the country and I ref used to accept the
money they offered to me. At no time has the government
8 ever given me any money except when I came out of prison.
9 Q Did the government provide you with any con-
10 · sideration with regard to any of your cases?
11
A Well, of course. That was the deal.
12
Q What was the deal?
13 A The deal was I gave them certain information in
14 order to beat certain cases.
15 The United States Government got me out of
prison in December 16, 1974. I was released from the

16
California Prison. This was done with the help of the
17
United States Government. They were.trying to get me out
18
for a year to work on the possibility of their telephones

19
being tapped.
20
• 21
22
23
Q Did you ever give information concerning a man
named John Draper, known as "Captain Crown"?
A Absolutely not.
Q Have you ever given information to any govern-

24
ment agency with regard to Hr. Lenny Bruce?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROVI, N.Y. 10038
1 Eder 31
2 A Most definitely not.
3 Q Did you ever give information to any government
4 agency with regard to Mr. Thomas King Forcade?
• 5
7
A At no time. At one time the government agency,
at one time attempted to coerce me into giving information
with regard to Thomas King Forcade. At the time this took
8 place, I adamantly refused to give them any information
9 whatsoever at the risk of having my deal with the Drug
10 Enforcement Administration go·. down the tubes because this
man had to sign something that would allow the deal to go

11
12 through, and he tried to use that as a lever in order to
13 get him to give me information about Thomas King Forcade
14 and I refused to at that time.
15
Q Was the information you gave to the government
with regard to telephone and computer matters, in your be-

16
lief, of value to the government?
17
A Yes. There are two things that the government
18
is concerned with over and above arrests and convictions,
19
and one is the safety of their personnel and the other is
20
•·
the security of their information.
21
Q Did you derive the information you gave to them,
22
in part, from information you gathered from one John Draper?
23
A I will not answer that question since i t may
24
lead Mr. Draper to have problems with the government and he
25
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15. PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349·310B·9
1 Eder 32
2 certainly cannot afford them at this time.
3 I would like to add to my answer the fact at
4 no time did I give the government any information with
• 5
6
regard to John Draper.
Q However, you would contend that the information
7 you gave was of high value to the government?
8 A Well, let's put i t this way; They traded for
9 it, so they must have thought it was of high value.
10 Q Do you feel that it 1va.s high level information
11 you were giving?
12 A No, sir. Definitely I tapped the FBI telephones
13 at the height of the Patty Hearst investigation and they
14 freaked.
15 Q So with regard to those limited matters, did
16 you provide. the government with high level information?
17 A I object to that simply because you are just
18 trying to fill out that "high level." Alan J. Weberman's
19 line in The Village Voice was that I was a "high level DEA
20
informant." That's not my place to ascertain whether or
not this information was of value to them. You have to

21
ask the DEA agents I am going to put on the stand whether
22
or not it was of interest to them.
23
Q When was it that you were released from prison
24
with the assistance of the United States Government?
25
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lS PARK RO\V, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-310B-9
1 Eder 33
2 A December 16, 1974.
3 Q For how long before that had you been in prison?
4 A I went to prison -- Again, it was the conviction
•• 5
6
that took place in Isla Vista,Santa Barbara, California,
and I believe that was 1970 or '71 that I went into prison,
7 and I escaped from prison in December of 1972 and returned
s voluntarily to prison May 8, 1973. I had been in prison
9 for that length of time on that charge.
10 Q During the spring of 1974, did you ever visit
Mr. Thomas King Forcade?

11
A Spring of 1974 was spent incarcerated in the
12
13 California prison.
Q I think I am confused about dates. Have you

14
told us that you were released from prison in California
15
in December of '74?
16
A That's correct. In the spring of '74, I was
17
in the prison.
18
Q During the spring of 1975 then you were re-
19
cently released from prison with the assistance of the
20
•
government; is .that correct?
21
A That's correct.
22
Q During that period of time, did you ever visit
23
Mr. Thomas King Forcade?
24
A During what period of time?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15- PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 Eder
2 Q Spring of 1975.
3 A Yes, I was intimately involved with Thomas King
4 Forcade in numerous business ventures .
• 5
7
Q
Q
Were any of the business ventures criminal?
I object to the word "criminal."
Were any of those prohibited by law at that
8 time?
9 A Yes, they were outlawed definitely.
10
Q Did you ever visit Mr. Forcade at the Fifth
Avenue Hotel at Ninth Street?

11
12
A Yes. On a daily basis for many months during
13 the time we had that suite.
14
Q 11
V'Je 11 ? You said "we 11 had that suite. Were you
a partner?
15
A During the time we had that suite -- I will
16
change that.
17
Q What business was carried on at that location?
18
A What business was carried on at that location?
19
Numerous businesses, I suppose.
20
•
Q What businesses, if any, that you know about?
21
A Work on HIGH TIMES MAGAZINE, distribution of
22
marijuana.
23
Q In what kind of quantities?
24
A Hundred pounds, 200 pounds, 500 pounds.
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15. PARK ROW, N.Y, 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 Eder
2 Q Were you one o'f the partners in that venture?
3 A I certainly was.
4 Q And during that time, were you cooperating with
5 the government?
6 A Wait just a moment.
7 MR. KAHN: I object to the form of the
8 word "cooperating" with the government because I don't
9 know what it means and I am not sure
10 A Yes, that's what stopped me.
11 Q During that time, were you providing information
12 to any government agency?
13 A Yes, I was working at that time on the computers
14 Q What agency was it that you were dealing with
15 at that time?
A The Drug Enforcement Agency.

16
Q Did there come a time when the marijuana sales
17
business at the Fifth Avenue Hotel ended?
18
A They sure did.
19
Q Do you know the circumstances under which it
20
ended?
21
A I wasn't there at the time, but from my in-
22
formation, something happened to the sprinkler system and
23
it went off, thereby flooding the suite and causing the
24
fire department to break into that suite and I believe they
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

I Eder 36
2 found a quantity of marijuana there. Following that, when
3 the district attorney here in New York attempted to coerce
4 me into testifying with regard to that marijuana belonging
• 5
6
to Thomas King Forcade.
A
Is that Mr.
That's correct.
Newgarten?
8 Q You say he attempted to coerce you. What did
9 he say?
10 A That's correct. He said he knew I had a deal
with the Drug Enforcement Agency to kill the case for me

11
12 in New York City here based on information that I had
13 supplied to them with regard to the computers, and he
14
attempted to -- I don't know the right word -- quash the
deal. He refused to allow the deal to go through unless

15
I agreed to testify or give information against Thomas
16
Kini; Forcade, at which time I told him to "get fucked."
17
Q Close quote?
18
A Close quote.
19
Q Thank you.
20
•
A And told him my deal with the Drug Enforcement
21
Agency -- and I lived up to my deal with the Drug Enforce-
22
ment Agency -- my deal, at the beginning, with the Drug
23
Enforcement Agency, was at no time was I to be asked for
24
any information that might lead to an arrest or conviction,
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK RO\V, N.Y. 10036 PHONES: 349-3\0B-9
1 Eder 37
2 so I didn't have to supply him with that information and
3 if he refused to go along with the DEA, then that was the
4 problem between him and the DEA and to leave me out of i t .
• 5
7
Q Mr. Eder, when you did give information to
governmental agencies, you told us you had an understanding
that information would not lead to an arrest and you would
8 not be asked questions that might lead to an arrest; is
9 that correct?
10 A No. ·11y original deal with the United States
11 Government was simply the deal was made while I was in
12 prison and I told the man he had read me completely wrong
13 if he thought I would trade my prison cell for another
14 man, put another man in my place. We made an agreement
15 at the time, not only was I not expected to give up any
16 information and would not be asked any questions that may
17 lead to an arrest or conviction.
18 Q Did you ever have any agreement you would never
mention anybody's name?

19
A No, I don't think so.
20
•
Q Your agreement was while you might mention
21
somebody's name, no arrest would result; is that correct?
22
A No. Let's get i t straight. You are getting
23
cute again. You get cute a lot. Don't do it.
24
Our agreement was I might be asked questions
25
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1.:5. PARK ROW, N.Y. 1~30 PHONES: 349-3106-.9
1 Eder 38
2 that would lead to an arrest or conviction. At the time
3 I made my deal with the government, I fully understood the
4 fact there are things that are more important to an in-
• 5
7
vestigative agency of the United States Government than
arrests or convictions, and those two things are the safety
of their personnel and the security of their information
8 and communications; therefore, my deal with the government
9 as to a system in areas dealing with the safety of their
10 personnel or their securities of their information or com-
munications.
11
12
Q But in the course of the information you did
13 get, you may have named names?
14 MR. KAHN: I object to the form of that
question.
15
A Yes.
16
Q Did you ever name the name of anybody who
17
committed a crime, in the course of giving information?
18
A No. Now we can deal with the question. No.
19
Okay.
20
Q I want to thank you for your compliment on my
•• 21
22
23
looks.
You have told us you know you sometimes repre-
sented yourself in dealing with the prosecutors; is that

24
correct?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROV/, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 Eder 39
2 A Yes, I was propria persona in a case in Los
3 Angeles County, which I beat, and in Ventura County and
·4 in Santa Barbara County and San Luis Obispo County I
• .s
6
7
represented myself in those cases and those jurisdictions .
A
Any of those cases lead to guilty pleas?
The Los Angeles case was acquittal and the
s case in Ventura, California led to a guilty plea, and the
9 case in Santa Barbara, California led to being found guilty
10 by a jury, and the case in San Luis. Obispo County led to
11
a plea of guilty on an escape charge.
12
Q There have been times where you have had
13 attorneys representing you?
14 A Oh, definitely. Those are the only times I
15 was not represented.
16
Q The case involving the 5300 pounds in Florida,
did you have an attorney in that matter?

17
A I did.
18
Q Who was that?
19
A During the case?
20
•
Q Yes .
21
A During the trial itself?
22
Q Yes.
23
A Michael Kennedy.
24
Q Did he resign as your attorney?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 3~9-310B·9
1
2 A
Q
He did.
Eder
Did he give a reaso n for it at the time that

G
3
4 you know of?
5 A He did .
6 Q What was that?
7 A He said he didn't want -- he wouldn't defend
8 people that worked with the gover nment .
9 Q In fact , did he call you an informant?
10 A He did .
11 Q Did he express shock you had not told him?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Had you told him?
14 A No .
Q So you did not inform your attorney that you

15
had a relationsh ip with governmenta l agencies?
16
A That is correct.
17
Q At that time did you ask Mr . Kennedy to delay
18
before informing anybody of the new fac t he had learned?
19
A That is correct , and which he did .
20
Q And therefore, he later revealed it, with your
21
consent?
22
A He did not at my consent .
23
Q Did an allegation that you were show n t o have
24
been a government informant and an informant for the DEA
25
BLITZ REPORT IN G C O .
15 P A RK R OW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES : 349-3106 -9
1 Eder
2 ever appear in prin.t that you know of?
3 A Yes, it did.
4 Q Where and when?
5 A HIGH TIMES MAGAZINE. 'rhe when would be, I
6 think, the Christmas issue two years ago.
7 Q And?
8 A About a year and a half -- Not this last
9 Christmas but the Christmas issue prior to that.
10 Q Was that statement true or false?
A Let me see it again so I can say what is true

11
12 and what is false.
13 The statement is false and I will deal with
14 where it is false in just a moment.
As far as this is concerned, it states here,

15
and I will· read the heading, "Dope Hero Turns Narc." The
16
term "Narc" means either someone who is working for the
17
Narcotics Agency for the United States or an informant in
18
narcotics cases for the United States Government. That is
19
untrue. It also says here, on the seventh line of this
20
• 21
22
23
article, it says, "was revealed in court as a government
informant."
law.
That is untrue. Never came out in a court of
MR. KAHN: Are you introducing this· into

24
the record?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.
15 PARK ROVl, N.Y, 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1
2
Eder
MR. MICHAELS:
(2·
Would you like to mark it?
3 MR. KAHN: Yes.
4 MR. MICHAELS: Fine.
• 5
Q The false allegation that appeared in print in
6 HIGH TIMES MAGAZINE that you had been revealed in court to
7 be a narc, did that cause you a loss of income?
8 A Yes.
9 Q What income?
A Income derived from the marijuana business.

10
Q Did it cost you any loss of income in your

11
12 yachting business?
13 A No.
Q Did it cost you any loss of income in any other

14
businesses?
15
A I don't think so.
16
Q Did it cost you any loss of reputation as an
17
honest outlaw or otherwise?
18
A Most definitely.
19
Q In fact, isn't it the kind of allegation you
20
•
are complaining about in this case?
21
A Most definitely, but not quite as strongly
22
because there was no specificity as to what it was I was
23
supposed to have done within the HIGH TIMES article.
24
Q In fact, is it your opinion that the HIGH TIMES
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15. PARK ROW. N.Y. i003B PHONES: 349·3\0B-9
1 Eder 43
2 article caused much more damage to your income as an out-
3 law?
4 A Possibly.
• 5
6
Q Have you, 'to' this date, taken any legal action
against HIGH TIMES MAGAZINE or Transhigh Corporation?
7 A No, I have not, but that was simply because at
8 the time I was not in a position to do so and I am glad you
9 brought that to my attention, because we intend to do it at
10 ·this point.
11 Q Did you ever complain in writing that the in-
12 formation published therein was false?
13 A No, not in writing.
14 Q Did you ever complain orally that it was false
15 to HIGH TIMES MAGAZINE?
16 A No, Thomas King Forcade.
17 Q What did you say?
18 A Told him it was bullshit and
19 Q What did he say?
20 A Be that as it may, Thomas King Forcade and I
• 21
22
23
were in business with the marijuana and he cheated me out
of a large sum of money and that is what was the basic
argument originally.
Q How much marijuana did you and Thomas bring

24
into the country during the course of that business?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

1S PARK RO\'.', N.Y. \0038 PHONES: 349-3108.-9
1 Eder ( 44 )
2 A Many thousands of pounds. U/
3 Q How many different importations were involved ,
4 approximately?
5 A Three .
6 Q By airplane, ship or how?
7 A By boat .
8 Q So in fact there came a time when you felt that
9 Thomas King Forcade cheated you out of a l arge sum of money?
10 A He did .
11 Q When was that ?
12 A When did I l e arn he cheated me out of the
13 money?
14 Q Yes .
15 A April , 1 97 7 .
16
Q And so after Apri l 1977 , what was your opinion
of Mr . Forcade's honesty?
17
18
A I stopped doing busines s with Mr. Forcade a t
t hat point and took my money back a way from him .

19
Q What was your opinion of Mr. Forcade?
20
A That he was a ch~at; that he wa s not an hone st

21
outla\·1 .
22
Q Did you ever tell a nybody that?
23
A Tom Forcade .
24
Q Anyone else?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW. N .Y. 10036 PH O N ES ' 3 4 9-3 1 06- 9
1 Eder 45
2 A No, I didn't feel it was necessary. A lot
3 of people knew about it. Yes, I did tell a lot of people
4 in the business so they could protect themselves from Mr .
• 5
7
Thomas King Forcade.
Q Did you ever complain in writing to Mr. Michael
Kennedy about his having said you were a narc or drug
s agency informant?
9 A No.
10
Q Did you ever complain orally to him about that
statement?
11
12
A Yes.
13
Q What did you say?
14
A You know, I said that since that wasn't true,
that I felt he was wrong in saying that.

15
Q What did he say?
16
A He said, well, you know, he said we are all
17
entitled to our opinion. In fact, I think it was his words.
18
19
20
Q
A
Did you ever take any legal action against him?
No, I haven't yet.

]
•
Make a note . I am suing him too. Let's simplif
21
that.
22
Q Do you have any claim to any secret, confidentia
23
conversations with Mr. Kennedy about your status as an
24
alleged informant on narcotic cases?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

1 Eder
T3 2 A I am not sure I understand what you are talking
.3 about.
4 Q You have told us something about conversations
• 5
7
\vi th Mr. Kennedy, your former attorney, concerning the
allegation which he made which was reported in HIGH TIMES
that in fact you were a narc informant.
8 A Did I?
9 Q I am saying, are you claiming there was any
10 other conversation with him with regard to your status as
an informant which was secret or confidential?

11
12 A Yes, all of it was secret and confidential. He
13 was my attorney.
14 Q Were any of those secret and confidential con-
versations concerning whether.or not you were in fact a

15
narc informant?
16
Most definitely.
17
Q You have told us that you wished to consider.
18
bringing legal action against Mr. Kennedy. I take it you
19
would not object to his testifying about your conversations
20
•
concerning your alleged status as a narc informant?
21
A l'lould I object to that? I already object to
22
that. I object to his having violated the attorney-client
23
relationship and it has just dawned on me, sitting here in
24
your office, I should take legal action against him.
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 3.:l9-3 \ 08-9
1 Eder 47
2 Q You are saying he violated a confidence tha t
3 in his opinion you were a narc informant?
4 A That is correct.
5 Q You are contending there were conversations you
6. had with him in which that was discussed in which you ex-
7 pected and hoped would be kept secret?
8 A Yes.
9 Q During those conversations, did you and he dis-
10
cuss your activities , however limited, in assisting the
government?
11
12
A Correct.
13 Q Have you ever give n information to any govern-
ment agency concerning a narcotics investigation or prosecu-

14
tio n?
15
MR. KAHN: I am going to object to tha t . .
16
The question was asked and ~nswered earlier.
17
]
Q Were there other places , aside from the Fifth
18
Avenue Hotel , where you and Mr. Forcade conducted an outl aw
19
business , as you cal l it?
20
A I don't have to
21
MR. KAHN: I object to the question and
22
direct him not to answer .
23
A Hold it. I will answer the question bu t I won ' t
24
ge t into any specificity .
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW. N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 Eder
2 Yes, We are involved.
3 Q Were there, in fact, several other places?
4 A Yes. J
5 Q Where do you live?
6 A In my suitcase. I do not have a permanent
7 domicile.
8 Q Do you own real estate in Manhattan?
9 A No. I don't own real estate anywhere.
Q Are you a partner, member of a firm or share-

10
holder in any business which owns real estate in Manhattan?
11
A No.
12
Q Do you own any boats?
13
A No.
14
Q What is your business. at this time?

15
A I'm a corporation in New York.
16
Q Which does what?
17
A Sells ears.
18
Q E-a-r-s?
19
A Sells ears.
20
• 21
22
Q
Q
Is that the sole business of that company?
At that point, yes.
What is the name of the company?

23
A Picaresque of New York.
24
Q What business did that corporation normally
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK RO\V, N.Y. 10036 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 Eder 49
2 conduct?
3 A Conducting no business besides that. ]

4 Q Have you made arrangements for any improvements
• 5
7
on any real estate in Manhattan within the last two years?
A I don't know what that means, so I can't answer.
Would you be a little more specific, you know, instead of
s being a lawyer?
9 Q Have you arranged for services of architects,
10 carpenters, electricians, renovators, restorers; rebuilders
11
or any other persons whose business is involved in the im-
12 provement of realty?
13 A I worked on it for a while but nothing came to
14 fruition.
15
Q A building at what address?
A I don't know the address. It was in the

16
twenties but I didn't buy the building, so that's it
17
was a plan to buy a building through a corporation I was
18
involved with and the plan never came to fruition. That's
19
all.
20
•
Q Are you telling us then that at one time you
21
made a contract to purchase a building but did not close
22
the deal?
23
HR. KAHN: I object to that.
24
A No, I didn't make any contract to purchase any
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349·3 l OB· 9
1 Eder
2 building.
3 Q What was the price of the building which you
4 didn't buy?
• 5
7
A How does that relate?
MR. KAHN: I object to this entire line
of questioning for the reasons it is totally im-
8 material to any defense that may be legitimately
9 raised ·in the action and there is no indication what
10 Mr. Michaels is talking about and I think it is un-
11
fair to ask the witness to respond. I am not sure.
12 what you are talking about and I am not sure my
13 witness does either.
14
Q Do you have any business other than the·
15 Picaresque business you have told us about?
A What other businesses do I have or what other

16
businesses do I project?
17
Q What other businesses are you conducting now?
18
A In the United States, none.
19
Q Outside the United States?
20
•
A Various other business ventures .
21
Q Such as?
22
MR. KAHN: I am going to object.
23
HR. MICHAELS: I am going to object to
24
your objection. The claim is that there is a dero-
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108·9
~
1 Eder
2 gation of his business and income a nd I am
3 what business he is in.
4 A Let me think abou t that. I am in t he opal
5 business in
6 Q You mean the cars or qem stone?
7 A Gem stone .
8 Q Anything else?
9 A That's it.
10 Q You are not in any yachting or boat-oriented
11 business?
12 A Yes , I am, but I'm not making any money at it.
13 Q What does that business involve?
14 A Involves owning a piece of a corporation that
15 owns and charters boats.
16 Q How many boats does that company own?
17
A At this point, one .
18 Q Where is that business locat0d?
19
A I prefer not to answer that.
20
Q Is y our attorney objecting to it?
A I do n't n eed my attorney to tell me not to

21
a ns we r the quest ion.
22
Q Whe r e is your boating business lo c at e d?
23
A Off the record .
24
(Di s cussion o f f the record .)
25
BLITZ REPORT ING CO.

1 ~ PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108- 9
1
2
Eder

G
3 A In the Caribbean and further than that, I would
4 rather not state, and the reason I would rather not state
• 5
7
i t is simply because I already have J:ieen injured by this
party and I don't want that information available to this
party.
8 Q Under what jurisdiction? What island or
9 locality?
10 A That is exactly what I'm telling you I am not
11 going to tell you.
12 MR. MICHAELS: Off the record.
14 MR. MICHAELS: Back on the record.
15 Q You are not making any money from that this
16 year, the boating business?
17
A No.
18
Q Did you make any money from it last year?
19 A Yes.
Q About how much?

20
• 21
22
23
that?
A
Q
A few hundred dollars.
Did you make any money from it the year before
A I wasn't in it the year before that.

24
Q How about the opal business; are you making any
25
. 15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10036 PHONES: 349-3108·9
1 Fr3er
2 money this year?
3 A A few dollars.
4 Q Make a ny money in it last year?
- 5
7
A I wasn't in it last year.
Pardon me , that's wrong .
year and no , I did not make any money in it l as t yea r.

I wa s in it last
8 Q What are you making money in this yea r?
9 A Nothing . It is a pre tty bad year so far.
Q What did you make money in last year ?

10
A I said I made a few dollars in the boat

11
12
busines s l as t year. Maybe two, three hundred dollars.
13
Q What else?
14
A That's it.
Q How did you support yourse lf l as t yea r?

15
A I didn't.
16
Q How did you buy food?
17
A I didn't.
18
Q You did without food all year ?
19
A No. I didn't buy any food .
20
Q You are telling us that your only income fo r
21
the year or the only income was f rom those businesses?
22
A From tho s e businesses.
23
Q l".111a t was your total income for the ye ar 1976?
24
A Maybe three, five, four hundred do llars.
25
15 PARK ROW. N . Y. 10038 PH O NES: 349-3108-9
1 E rl.er
2 Q How about 1977?
3 A Probably about the same .
4 Q How about 1978?
5 A I don't know. I can ' t deal with tha t beca use
6 I don't know how much I made because I don't keep any re-
7 cords, but that's what I figure I made.
8 Q You do keep copies of the tax returns you file,
9 do you not?
10 A No, I don't have any tax returns. I don't file
income tax.
11
12 Q You don't file any income tax anywhere?
13 A That's correct .
14 Q How much did you make from the marijuana
15
business , let's say, in 1975?
A I have no idea.
16
Q 1976?
17
A I don't know.
18
Q 1977?
19
A Don ' t know .
20
Q 1978?
21
A Don ' t know .
22
Q 1979?
23
A Don ' t knd~.
24
Q You have been in the marijuana busi ness in 1979?
25
BLITZ REPORT I NG CO.

15. PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES' 349-3108-9
1 E<ler 55
2 A No.
3 Q I ' m sorry . I thought you said you didn ' t know
4 how much you made in the marijuana business in 1979. Are
5 you saying you don ' t know because you were in the business
6 or you don't know --
7 A I'm sayi ng I don ' t know because I have n't been
8 doing anything in 1979 in the marijuana business . I have n't
9 been in the marijuana business in 1979 , but I was in t he
10 marijuana business prior to 1979.
11
Q Up through 1978 , perhaps?
12 A Sure .
13 Q You t old us about a dispute with Mr . Forcade
14 t hat led you to feel he cheated you out of a substantial
sum of money. How much money was that?

15
A It was n ' t money ; i t was marijuana.
16
Q How much marijuana was it?
17
A Fifty pound s .
18
Q How much does that g o for?
19
A It depe nds on your neighborhood .
20
Q Appro ximately at that time, l et 's say in the
21
neighborhood in which the act you were comp laining about
22
occurred?
23
24
25
A
Q
l\.bout $200 a pound.
About $10 , 000, maybe?

It was in Florida.
]
BLITZ REPORTING CO.
15 P ARK ROW. N.Y. 1003 8 PHONES' 349-3108-9
1
2 A
Eder
Yes, about ten grand. But you see, in the~

3 course of this there is a cost of doing business; the cost
4 of doing business is all of it. I don't make any profits,
• 5
7
so I don't pay any taxes. It's obvious what I am saying
is I don't pay any taxes to the United States Government
and I don't have any intention to pay taxes to the United
8 States Government. Therefore, I am not going to state
9 under testimony that I made any money on any ventures.
10 Q Have you ever or do you ever intend to pay
taxes to the State of New York or the State of Florida or

11
12
any other state or municipal jurisdiction?
13 A I don't intend to pay any taxes to any govern-
14 ment agency in the world at any time at this point, Since
I am an anarchist., I don't believe in government.

15
Q Have you done that in the past? Have.you made

16
out tax returns and paid taxes?
17
A I can't ever remember making a --
18
Q To any state or municipal government?
19
l
A I have sort of a deal with the government.
20
•
Whatever they get is theirs and whatever I get is mine .
21
Q This deal, is this like the other deals you
22
are telling us about where you made a specific agreement
23
with some government official?
24
A I have no agreement with any government
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y, 10038 PHONES: 349-3108·9
1 Eder
2 official. I just decided I'm not going to pay any taxes.
3 Q You used the word "deal," as a joke?
4 A I have, at times, say, for a few days, worked
• 5
7
and the monies that I may have earned would have been,
would have had withholding taxes taken out of it, and if
there was any withholding tax which was taken, I never
8 filed to get any back and I let the government keep that
9 but I did not file income tax. I just refuse to file it.
10 I don't pay any attention to that.
Q Where did you get the money to use to go in

11
12 the boat business?
13
14
A I didn't put any money in the boat business.
They pay me a small amount of money for advice.

]
Q We are all aware that legal proceedings are
15
expensive. How do you finance legal proceedings; from
16
what source of income?
17
A My attorney, at this point, does not charge
18
me any money. He has -- I believe he used the term ''pro
19
bono." Is that the term? Pro bono publico. Since I don't
20
•
pay this poor fellow, we are wasting a tremendous amount
21
of time. I don't pay any attorney.
22
Where did I get the money to pay Michael
23
24
Kennedy?
. From the marijuana business. J
Q In fact, over the course of your dealings in
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROVJ, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108·9
I
-.
/'
1 Eder 58 )
2 the marijuana business , you have taken in a great -·

deal
3 of money , have you not?
4 A Yes, but I didn't make any. The cost of doing
5 business was always just about exactly the amou nt of the
6 marijuana business.
7 Q Would you say , perhaps, over the cours e of
8 your lifetime you have taken in more than a million dollars
9 in t he marijuana business?
10 A ·rf the questio n is, has a milli on dollars gone
11
through my hands in the mariju a na business, yes .
12 Q So given the income position that you are tel l-
13 ing us that you have at this point , you are not claiming
14 that Mr. Weberman 's article caused you any loss of any in-
15 c ome in the opal or boat business, are you?
A · I'm claiming that it caused me not to make any

16
money and that is why I haven't made any money, because
17
there are certain peop le who have re f used to do business

18
with me based on the fact Weberman ' s article state s I am
19
an informant and who have testified before a grand jury
20
in Brooklyn .
21
Q l·v ho were thos e people that refused to do
22
business with y ou as a result of the artic l e ?
23
A Well, I attempted to hire someone for the
24
magazine that I h a d projected for the future , recently,
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW . N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349 · 3108·9
1 Eder
2 and that person said, "If I want a cop, I will
3 police station.''
4 Q With regard to your earnings in the opal
• 5
6
business or boat business, are there any earnings that you
have lost as a result of the publication of this article?
A Yes, I believe so. There is a fellow in Texas,

7
8 his name is Ray
9 Q Ray what?
10 A Carter.
11 Q Do you know his address?
12 A No, not at the moment, but I will certainly
13 get it for you. And Ray Carter refused to become involved
14 with me in the opal business over the incident.
Q Had you previously been involved in the opal

15
16
business with Mr. Carter?
17
A No.
Q That was only a plan possibility?

18
A The venture. The venture specifically went
19
20
down because of this article.
• Q Did that venture produce any income to you in

21
the past?
22
A No.
23
Q Do you ever charter your boat to smugglers?
24
A No.
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3\0B-9
1 Eder 60
J'
'..______/
2 Q Outlaws of a ny kind?
3 A Not to my knowledge .
4 MR. MICHAELS: Let ' s take a recess.
5 (Reces s taken .)
6 BY MR. MICHAELS:
7 Q Do I und erstand correctly yo u have told us
8 that your only income from legitimate businesses , duri ng
9 1977 and 1978, was a few hundred dollars?
10
A No. You understand correctly as stating that
that is all I wish to state that I had made simply becaus e

11
12 I do n't want it to appear anywhere on the record that I
13 have stated more than that because I don't wan t the govern-
14 ment, at some point , to come back to me and say why didn ' t
I pay taxes on it.

15
Q Did you lose a~y money on a ny existing legi timat
16
business as a result of the publication of the article?
17
A Yes , I did. It has caused me - - It has caused
18
me to postpone the publication date of magazine that I have
19
been planning for the past year.
20
Q Did you have any income from tha t magazine in
21
the past?
22
A No , it was just a projected income.
23
l
Q Is there any existing business that provided
24
you with income which has been harmed economica lly by thi s
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N .Y. 1 0039 PH O NES, 349-3109-9
1 Eder F
vi
2 publication?
3 MR. KAHN: I have to object to that
4 question on the grounds it already has been asked
•
. 5
6
and answered.

7
9 A Yes. The reason I have not done any business
in the marijuana business in 1979 is primarily based on

10
this article.
11
Q In fact, the primary loss economically you had
12
13
as a result of this publication is the decline of your
14
marijuana business, is it not?
A Exactly.
15
Q That is the overwhelming and predominant thing
16
that the case is about, isn't it?
17
A Yes. It most certainly is. I think I can
18
answer that that is true.
19
Q Thank you.
20
•
Off the record .
21
22
23
Q You have told us about your belief that that
24
article was published with malice?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK RO\V, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 3A9·310B·9
1 Eder 62
2 A Correct.
3 Q What do you believe the origin was of that
4 malice?
5 A My refusal to any longer sell marijuana to
6 A. J. \•leberman at very good prices.
7 Q When was that?
8 A I stopped selling it to him around June of
9 1977. I believe that is the last transaction, June of
10 1977. It may have been July, ·but I don't remember, but in
11 the summer, spring or summer of 1977 I stopped selling to
12 him.
13 Q You stopped because you believed the selling
14 of marijuana was wrong, against the law or some other
15 reason?
16
A No, I cut him off,
Q Why?
17
A Because I decided he was a pain in the ass.
18
Q Didn't you leave to1vn about that time because
19
of the article that appeared in HIGH TIMES that claimed
20
• 21
22
23
you were·a narc informant?
A Excuse me. The time I stopped doing business,
I cut him -- cut A. J. Weberman fr'om his supply of
marijuana took place in June or July of 1977. The publica-

24
tion in question is, the HIGH TIMES article appeared in the
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10036 PHONES: 3.:9-3108·9
1 Ede r 63
2 De c emh e r i s su e which prob a bly came out i'lround the e nd of
3 Oc t o ber or the beginning of NovembP-r .
4 Q When wa s it that Michael Ke nnedy made the
5 sta t e me nt that you were a n a rc info rmant?
6 A I believe around Labor Day of that same y e ar
7 and I had cut him off months before that .
8 Q That was during the time ~le n you were working
9 for the governme nt age ncy yo u have n a med in the limite d
way you have specified?

10
A No. I had not wo r ked for those g o vernmen t

11
agencies . I worked twice for the Fede r a l nur e au of In-
12
13
v e stiga tion on the telephone dea l in 1975 and I worked
with the governme nt on the othe r case , t he computers , in

14
1976 , so it was , like , at le a st a minimum of a y ea r h a d
15
gone by since I had anything to do with the gover nme nt .
16
Q Le t me show you this document, sir , Rnd as k y o u
17
if this is y our complaint iri the case we a re di scuss ing ?
18
The summons is o n top and the do c ument b e low th a t is the
19
one I am re fe r ring to .
20
A Ye s , I think so . It l ooks like it.
21
Q Th a nk you . At the time of the e ve nts tha t you
22
are complaining a bout in the lawsuit that we are dis cuss ing
23
today , y our complaint state s in paragr a ph 6 that you we re
24
se lf- employed as e ntrepreneur a nd ve ntu r e ca pitalist ; is
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 P A RK ROW, N . Y. 1 0 038 PH O NES; 3 ~ 9-3 1 08- 9
1 Ec'!er 64
2 that true?
3 A I'm not sure what " venture capitalist" is. I
4 am an entrepreneur . I don ' t have a capital to be a venture
5 capitalist and I know a lot of capitalists with money and
6 I pu t together a lot of deals .
7 Q ivhat do you do when you put together deals?
8 A I'm trying to put together a magazine . I have
9 received commitments for large sums of money to put th is
magazine out, and because of · this article , I have not bee n

10
able to hire certain parties who have refused to work for
11
me simply because of this article and this kind of a re p uta-

12
13 tion .
Q ivho has made commitments to finance your v e nture

14
y ou are te lling us about?
15
A Certain people in the Caribbean .
16
Q Who?
17
A I'm not going to tel l you that. If i t becomes
18
necessary a t trial , if it is up for question , I suppose I
19
wi ll bring thes e people in.
20
Q If there is going to be a trial, it is n e c essary
21
fo r you to establis h a b as is on which to proceed. I a sk
22
you if the basis of the statements in the complaint are
23
true a s to what your income was, and if you are telling
24
me you list spec ific monies , I h ave to ask you to id e ntify
25
BLITZ REPORT IN G CO.

1 S PARK ROW, N . Y. 10036 PHONES: 349 -3106 - 9
1 Eder 65
2 which moni e s and from whom.
3 A Time out.
4 (Recess tak e n. )
5 MR. MICHAELS: Ba c k on the record .
6 A My answer to that is I can list three peop le
7 and at the time of the trial . When it b~comes n e ces s ary,
8 I will be very happy to give up tho s e names , but at this
9 point in time , since I have b~en damaged maliciously by
10
Mr . ·w eberman, I have every reason to he lieve those names
I may give you at this point will also be damaqed by Mr.

11
12
Weberman in print and the refore , prior to asking these
13
people if I use their names, I c a nnot give you · their
14
names . However, I will agree that b e fore the month of
February is out, to transmit those name s to you . That is

15
as far as I can go . I can ' t give y ou those p eo ple's names
16
unti l I ask them.
17
Q As a r e sult of the all e gations in the a rticle
18
you a r e compl a ining of, are there a ny other monies that you
19
list?
20
A I think I have already answered that , with re -
.e 21
gard to not being in the marijuana busine ss in 1979 si mply
22
b e cause people don't want to do business with me , based on
23
this article by Weberman .
24
Q Is it your o p inion you have the r ight to be in
25
B LI TZ REPORT I NG CO.
15 PARK ROW , N.Y. 10036 PH O NES' 349-31 0 6·9
1 Eder 66
2 the marijuana business?
3 MR. KAHN: I am going to object to that
4 on the grounds i t calls for an opinion which is
5 not legally material or admissible and therefore
6 it is not relevant to the deposition.
7 Q Your complaint says in paragraph 6 that at the
s time of the events complained of herein, you were self-
9 employed as an entrepreneur and venture capitalist. Are
10 the bases you told us about the extent of your effort as
an entrepreneur and venture capitalist, that is, the pro-

11
12
posed magazine, the opal business, the boat business and
13 the marijuana business? Is that all the businesses you
14 \Vere in?
A Let me state this. That is correct except for

15
the fact that up to th.is point in time, my attorney, Mr.
16
Marc· Kahn, had no idea of the fact I was in the marijuana
17
business. That is the first he learned of that, so we will
18
clear the record.
19
Yes, that is true, other than having losses --
20
• 21
22
I can only think of one loss in the opal business, but I
can think of three losses in the magazine business.
Now, since the money has already been put up

23
on the magazine, I believe that I can prove in a court of
24
law I have in fact been injured in the magazine business.
25
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15 PARK ROV/, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 Eder 67
2 MR. KAHN: For the record, he has also
3 testified earlier that he is involved in the ear
4 business.
• 5
7
Q The businesses you are talking about are in
the proposed magazine business and marijuana business and
the sympathetic ear business? You lost business in the
8 ear
9 A I lost business in every area because social
10 ostracism took place by virtue of this article.
11
Q You say you will do -- You mean by that you
12 have
13 A I think I can prove -- we can prove in a court
14 of law, when we p.it people on the stand, they in fact did
15 not enter into business dealings with me or refused to go
16 ahead with business dealings, agreements we had prior to
this article appearing.

17
18
Q But in 1978 your total income was two or three
hundred dollars; is that correct?

19
A My statement is, here again, my statement is I
20
•
keep no records because I don't intend to pay the govern-
21
ment any taxes on what I earn in any area, so when people
22
ask me how much money I made last year; I generally tell
23
them less than what it costs, less than what the figure is
24
for paying taxes. That is how I figure my income as less
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

1 Eder
2 than taxes .
3 Q How much has your income declined since the
4 article was published~
5 A Half.
6 Q Half of what?
7 A The few hundred dollars that I made last yea r.
8 Q Therefore, you are saying your business losses,
9 in yo ur various businesses , come to half of a few hundred
10 dollars?
11
A I a m in a cross here . I am damned if I do and
12 damned if I don't. I ' m stating that because of the Internal
13 Revenue Service having access to what is in fact the publ ic
14 document, which I am dictating at this point , that I don't
wan t to state I made more money than that . My prima ry

15
objection to these lie s that were printed about me is
16
socia l. My attorney , however, tells me that I must show
17
financia l damage in order to make my case stronger . I
18
don ' t care if my case is stronge r or not stronger. Mr .
19
\veberma n malicious ly defame d me in print a nd my s tateme nt
20
is this has hurt me socially much more than i t has hurt
21
me on a business level, which is the purpose .
22
So whatever discussion that you ge t into with
23
regard to my fin a nces is pretty muc h a dead end because we
24
are not going to get anywhere. I am not going to admit to
25
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1~ PARK R OW. N.Y. 10036 PHONES: 349-3106-9
l Eder 69
2 you having made more money than I would have to pay taxes
3 on.
4 I would like to make one point
• 5
7
MR. KAHN: On the record he has already
testified that he has lost business opportunities for
investment in various business ventures which have
8 resulted in lost income opportunity for him in the
9 future as well as present and past.
10 Q How many dollars, approximately, do you feel
11 you lost already as a result of the publication of this
12 article?
13 A I don't know, but I will state this, that I
14 have one person, one of the three people who I will or will
15 not give you the names, depending on whether or not they
16 are willing to give their names up, and one of these people,
17 since the article, refused, changed his mind with regard to
18
investing $100,000 in a magazine. That is a substantial
sum of money.
19
Q What is the name of the magazine you proposed?
20
• 21
22
23
A
A
OUTLAW.
Is that about criminal business?
Yes, .of course. · It is about those outside the
law.
24
Q Did you discuss these losses and your various
25
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15 PARK ROVJ. N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-31 06-9
1 Eder / 70
/
J'
L .---
2 busines s los ses and lost oppo rtuniti es with your attorn ey
3 prior to today?
4 MR . KAHN : I am going to objec t to tha t
5 o n the grounds t hat is a confidential matter. That
6 is not subject to y our disclosure . I wi ll ob j ec t t o
7 any lin e of questioning that has to d o with what he
8 has discussed with his attorney , a s I am sure you
9 would.
10 Q I believe you t old us you are a part owner of
11 a company that owns a boat; is tha t correc t?
12 A 'That's correct .
T4 13 Q You are aware, I assume , your complain t state~
14 in paragraph 6 that you were the sole owner of a boat i ng
15 and yachting business?
A Does it s ay that?
16
Q Whic h is correct?
17
A That i s correct , I own more than one boa t.

18
Q How many boats ?

19
A The company I own, sole ly owns a boa t in Ne w
20
York. Okay ?
21
Q Ri ght .
22
A I own a s mal l piece of anoth er company tha t owns
23
another boat in the Caribbean. The company that owns the
24
boat in New York is called Picare sque .
25
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15 P A RK R O W, N.Y. 10036 PHON E S : 3 <> 9-3106-9
1 Eder
2 Q Is that the ear bu s iness ?
3 A But it also owns a boat .
4 Q Does the ear business use the boat?
- 5
7
A
A
No.
Where is the boat in the Caribbean?
I to ld yo u I won ' t te ll yo u that.
8 Q Do you own any pieces of any other boating
9 businesses?
10 A No.
11 Q How much money did P i caresque make in i ts boa t-
12 ing bus iness i n 1 977, 1978?
13 A Picaresque only came into business in 1978 and
14 it has not earned any money off its boating v e nture.
15 Q What about the other boating bus ine ss in the
Ca ribbean that yo u don ' t wan t to discu s s the l o ca tion of~

16
how much ha s that made ?
17
A The company ?
18
Q Ye s.
19
A I do n't know . Maybe the comp any made f ifty
20
thous and last year b ut I on l y own a s mall piece of that
21
company .
22
Q Yo u didn ' t d e rive a ny income from that ?
23
A Ye s , a f ew do l lars , bu t I don ' t know how much.
24
Q No t much ?
25
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1 ~ PARK ROW. N.Y. 1 0038 PH O N E S : 349 -3 1 0 8-9
1 Ede r
2 A Not much . Again, we are back to the que s tio n
3 of what my f inances are , which could go to the Interna l
4 Reven ue Service and therefore , I d on ' t wan t t o do that
5 and I don ' t want t o lie, but - -
6 Q I understand your pos itio n , but whe n it says
7 in para g rap h 6 you were the o wne r a nd successfu l operator
8 of a boating a nd yachting b usi nes s , doe s that refe r to t he
9 busines s which made no money or the bus iness wh i c h made
10
some money? · Which bus ine ss do e s that refer to that wa s
11
success ful?
12
A If I am the sole owner, that is the business 1
13 that is the successful business . That would h ave to be
14 Pi caresq ue of New York .
Q That made no money from the boating business?

15
A -That's right .
16
Q Do y ou co ntend the a ll egation in paragraph 6
17
t hat yo u were the successful operato r of th i s busines s is
18
meant to re ad t hat in fac t it wa s a money-making business ?
19
A No . The word " success ful" does not mean money-
20
making .
21
Q What do e s it mea n?
22
A It means if is not unsucces sfu l . It is in
23
b usine s s and it is operating a nd it is a succes s . I ce r -
24
tainly do n't wa nt to deal wi th the t erms or the def ini tio n
25

15 PARK ROW, N .Y. 1003 8 PHO NE S' 349-3108-9
1 Ede r
2 of the term " succ e ss," b ut su c cess is onlv co nnoted by
3 most l awyer s as being monetary . A sucGessful perso n is
4 not n ecessarily a wea lthy person.
5 Q In paragraph 7 of your complaint i t say s you
6 had a goo d reputat io n for t r uthfuln ess , worthiness an d
7 good characte r. Which group of peop l e held that opinio n
8 of you?
9 A Outl a ws .
10 Q So you mean , whe n you say a mong your fri ends
11
and business associates , in paragraph 7 , you mean other
12 peop le involved in violating the marijuana law previous l y
13 held y ou in high e steem?
14 A That is corre ct .
Q Are yo u talking abo ut anybody e l s e ?

15
A I ' m talking about peo ple outside . of t hat, a s
16
we l l.
17
Q Who are t he peop l e that h e ld this opinion of
18
yo u?
19
]'\ Outside t h e mari juana bus i nes s1
20
Q Inside or outs ide , would you te ll us who i t is
21
tha t you be lieve fe lt you h ad a goo d reputatio n for truth-
22
fulness , worthiness a nd goo d character ?
23
A Almost everyone I knew .
24
Q Most of the people yo u kne w were in t he
25

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 1 003 6 PHONES: 349-3 1 06- 9
1 Eder 74
2 marijuana business, I guess; is that true?
3 A No, not most of them. I would say --
4 Q l"lhat you are really complaining about in this
• 5
7
case is the loss of faith of the people in the marijuana
business who previously believed you were an honest out-
law and came to believe, through the article
8 A That is only part of it. The other part is
9 the people that come in contact with me on an every day
10 basis . I want i t clear that no matter what my complaint
11 says, my complaint was drawn by my attorney.
12 Q Do you agree with it? Is it true?
13 A Yes, i t is true but it is not the main thrust
of my argument. The main thrust of my argument is this
15 man maliciously called me a government informant and the
society in which we live, a government informant is a man

16
who puts another man in prison for himself and is looked
17
upon as a piranha, and that is the thrust of my argument
18
here. All the rest of it, you are just killing time here
19
by David Michaels going through the garbage. You are going
20
•
through sheer nugatory verbiage in an attempt to maybe
21
justify your fee, I don't know, but whatever the point is,
22
you are not touching on any of the real things. The real
23
thing is this man maliciously attempted to hurt me in print
24
and he did so with lies and that is what I am fighting. He
25
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JS PARK ROY/, N.Y, 10038 PHONES: 349.3108-9
1
2
Eder
tells me I have to show financial danages.

G
3 Q You are referring to your attorney?
4 A My attorney tells me I have to show financial
• 5
7
damages. I am saying that may be the case, but as things
stand, it is difficult for me to show financial damages,
but it is going to be very easy for me t.o show I was
8 damaged socially.
9 Q In fact, isn't it impossible for you to show
10 financial damage?
11 MR. KAHN: Objection.
12 A It's very easy for me to show financial damage
13 with the magazine venture. I have one person, if he is
14 willing to let me use his name, willing to step forth in
15 this case, one person who is willing to state that two days
r after this article appeared in The Village Voice, he called

16
17
me up and told me, "Hey, Chic, forget it."
18 Q So what you are telling us is in fact that you
19 may or may not be able to show financial damages, but your
20 real concern is
•
MR. KAHN: Objection. He already stated
21
he can show financial damages.
22
A The prime thrust is not financial damage. The
23
prime thrust of my case is I have been damaged on a social
24
level and maliciously, through liable, so we can save a lot
25
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15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038
1 Eder 76
2 of time. My case is, this is what I assume discovery is
3 all about, and taking a deposition for discovery is to
4 find out what I am stating. My case against Weberman, my
•• 5
6
case against Weberman is simply I stopped selling him
marijuana. I sold Weberman marijuana for resale and sold
7 it to him in quantities for resale and I stopped selling
8 him marijuana for resale in quantity and therefore, he
9 maliciously attacked me in a newspaper and deliberately
10 lied and maliciously attacked me in this publication and
11 I have been damaged by that on a social level as well as
12 a financial level.
13 Q Isn't i t true that most of the financial losses
14 you are claiming are losses to your marijuana business?
15
A I don't want to say most or least or anything.
16 I am saying I have been hurt in the marijuana business and
I have also been hurt in the magazine business and also

17
been hurt in the opal business and I am stating that is
18
what is going on here. I don't want to play any games.
19
To continue what I am trying to say, Mr.
20
• 21
22
23
Michaels, is I feel you are putting up a smoke screen.
this point, what we are dealing with is the fact that I have
been damaged. My contention is I have been damaged malici-

At
ously by A. J. Weberman, socially primarily and business

24
secondarily.
25
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15 PARK RO\'/, N.Y. 10038 PHONES:_~49-31 o_a.g
1 Eder 77
2 Do you want to deal with it based on that
3 open and honest statement?
4 Q I will deal with the questions. You deal with
• 7
5
6
the answers and that is the format for today, if that is
all right with you.
A Right on.
8 Q I want to show you an exhibit attached to your
9 plaintiff's complaint in this action, that being a photo-
10 copy of The Village Voice concerning an article. My ques-
11 tion is whether this in fact is the article you are com-
12 plaining about?
13 A Yes, that is it.
14 Q Does it say within that article that you were
15 a DEA informant?
16 A I believe the words·are "high level EDA ... "
17 MR. KAHN: I object to any questions with-
18 out showing him a copy of the article, so we know what
19 you are talking about.
20 A That's the article. Now, it's right here.
Go ahead, what is your question?

21
Q It says within the article you were a DEA in-
22
formant?
23
A No, it doesn't. It says based on the testimony
24
of Chic Eder, a high level informant.
25
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l!S. PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PH~ES: 349-3108-9
1 Ede r 78
2 Q Were you or were you not in the limite d work
3 with tha t agency , which you have described to us , a high
.. 4
6
le ve l info rmant ?
A Aga in , at such time as you q uestion a DEA age nt
with regard t o what t heir levels are , you might be ab le to
7 ascertai n wheth e r i t is a hi g h leve l or low level. Okay?
8 Q Did you not tel l us before that security of
9 their personnel and the ir information was a very impor t a nt
10 priority for that agency?
11 A Yes, I stated that the only two things they
12 were more concerned with than arrest and conviction .we re
13 those two factors . Aga in, a s to whether it is a high l eve l
14 DEA info r man t , I a m not arguing the po int. I did do busi-
15 ness with the Drug Enfo rcement Administratio n and I am n ot
16
arguing that po int at all .
Q You conc e d iWi~

;"'-in fact?
17
A Of cour s e I have . The point is , now, the poin t
18
you are belaboring is high l eve l . I have a n swered the ques -
19
tion that I c a nnot state what l evel I was . V 0 u will h ave
20
to ask the DEA . Okay?
21
Q Fine. Yvhere in that articl e do y ou find an
22
a ll egation that you receive d fin anc ial rewards for informing
23
o n Tom Forcade ? Would yo u poi n t out the place in tha t
24
artic le wh ere it is stated and i mp lie d ?
25

15 P AR K R O W, N.Y. 1003 6 PHONES ' 349-3 106- 9
1 Eder 79
2 A It states it negatively. There is an inference.
3 By use of informant, there is inferred in that the fact of
4 payment by the government.
•· 5
7
Q In fact, monetary payment? In fact, when you
were a DEA informant, what you received by way of considera-
tion was your release from jail; is that not true?
8 A That is not true. What I received was a quash-
9 ing of a case against me.
Q ~ot financial reward?

10
A Not financial.
11
12
Q In fact, you know informants are also rewarded
13 in nonfinancial ways?
14
A No question about it. l\That we are stating,
again, is inferred in that is the payment from the govern-

15
ment.
16
Q Simply by use of the word "informant"?
17
A Yes. It is my contention that is inferred by ·
18
a greater number of people.
19
Q In fact, you never gave the government any
20
•
false information on Tom Forcade because you never gave
21
them any information on Tom Forcade; is that correct?
22
A That's correct.
23
I
Q Where in that article do you find any inference
24
that you gave any false information against Tom Forcade?
25
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15 PARK ROW. N.Y, 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 Eder 80
2 A Excuse me. Le t me try this aga in .
3 Aga in, you are getting cute, and I a m not
4 talking abou t your face . It says h ere in 1977 a Fe dera l
5 grand jur y in Brooklyn b egan a n inves tigation c o n c erning
6 Tom Forcade . That part of it ; that is a quote and tha t
7 part of it has nothing to do with me , w~ether th e y started
8 a n invest igation or not is not none of my bus iness .
9 Q Do you know whether that is true ?
10 A No , I don ' t know whether tha t is true . The
11 n e xt part says, " Based on testimo ny of Chic Eder ..• ", I
12 am not sure of the l ega l definition of lega l testimony
13 but I know wha t p e ople believe testimony is and testimony
14 is that yo u s wear or y ou give info rma tion aga inst some-

I
15 body. You testify aga ins t someone and I am stating that
16 categorical ly, at no time have I ever testified fo r ·a
17
gr and jury in New York or for that matter , t o the best of
18
my knowl e dge , anywhere . Okay? So that is my c ontentio n.
19
You are trying to dea l with a hi gh level DEA informa nt and
20
I want to d e a l with t he cr ux of the case , which is based o n
- 21
22
23
the testimony of Chic Eder .
You' re s tating -- I'm saying in co urt - -
t o state in cour t that Weberman h as sa id that I have give n

I want
testimony in a Brookl y n Federal grand jury in 1977 and I

24
am stating that is the basis of my case , that I h a ve no t
25

15 PARK ROW, N . Y. 10039 PH ONES ' 349-3 1 08-9
1
2
Eder
given testimony against Forcade or anybody else or any

GJ
3 grand jury or any other place. So if you want to -- My
4 question to you is, have we dealt with high level DEA in-
• 5
7
formant?
Q My question to you, sir, is whether the allega-
tion of paragraph 10 (b) of your complaint is true? That
8 allegation says the article included, at least by the
9 understanding of a reader, that you laid a false charge.
10 So I am asking you where in the article do you find any
11 allegation of falsity?
12 MR. KAHN: Excuse me --
13 A I did not give any testimony, so we may have
l4 made an error in that with regard to false testimony. I
15 haven't given any testimony.
16 MR. KAHN: You are asking Mr. Eder to
17
address certain things
18
MR. MICHAELS: I am asking if his com-
plaint is true and --

19
MR. KAHN: I think his answer is yes.
20
•
Off the record .
21
22
23
Q Paragraph lO(b) of the complaint says that the
24
reasonable inference from the article you are complaining
25
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15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3\0B-9
1
2
Eder
about was that yo u laid a f al s e info r ma tion againu

3 Forcade . Is that your position today or is it you r pos i-
4 tion t hat the in ference here that you are comp l ai ning of ,
5 that you gave any informa tion, true or fa l s e - -
6 A It should be both .
7 Q Where do you find any inference f r om the
8 ar ticle that you gave false information?
9 A I don't .
10 Q I'm sorry?
11 A But I think my attorney does.
12 Off the r e cord .
13 ( Discussion off the re cord.)
14 MR . KAHN : Back on the record .
15 A I don ' t know what is go ing on , whet h e r i t
16 should be fals·e info rmat ion , using the term as he is
17
using it and information as o pposed to a n in<lictment i n
18 a criminal proceedin g . I don ' t kn ow wh e th e r he is do ing
19 that .
MR. I<AHN : I am indicating 'i:he term us e d

20
in those two paragra p hs, lO(b ) and (c), are used as
e 21
a term of art to describe a l egal proceedi n g i nvo lv-
22
ing an invest i ga tion , an d h e is n o t qual i fied to
23
discuss it as a term of art .
24
MR. MICHAELS : Is the word " f a l se " a term
25

1 ".> PA R K ROW. N.Y. 1 003 8 PH O N ES' 3 4 9 - 3108·9
1 Eder 83
2 of art?
3 MR. KAHN: Yes, the word ''false,'' in
4 connection with the criminal information, is a term
• 5
7
of art.
MR. MICHAELS: What do you define that
to mean, for the purposes of subparagraph lO(b)?
8 MR. Y-AHN: I am suggesting that means
9 that the inferences from this article are that he
10 went to a grand jury and stimulated an information
11 of Forcade for some criminal activity for which the
12 grand jury was sitting; and the implication through-
13 out the article was that any charges he might have
14 leveled against Forcade would have been false and
15
therefore he placed a false information against
Forcade.
16
MR. MICHAELS: Where in the article do
17
you find the.basis for the inferences? What word
18
suggests falsity?
19
MR. KAHN: The entire paragraph in which
20
•
that statement appears .
21
Off the record.
22
23
THE WITNESS: On the record. My con-
24
tention is that I have at no time testified against
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

1 Eder 84
2 Forcade in anything much less than a Brooklyn grand
3 jury. My attorney may or may not be mistaken in the
4 use of the term "false." It has nothing to do with
• 5
6
my complaint. My complaint is, I did not testify at
all and he has claimed that I have testified and that
7 is where the falseness lies, as far as I am concerned.
8 BY MR. MICHAELS:
9 Q Your complaint says in paragraph lO(d), your
10 complaint includes a statement that the article you complain
11 about has, as one of its reasonable inferences for the
12 average reader, that you were responsible for causing an
13 airplane crash in which one Jack Combs
14 A It doesn't say that in the article. There is
15 just a Jack, not Combs. At that time, my contention is,
16 Mr. Weberman did· not know the last name. He certainly
didn't know where Jack crashed.

17
18 Q When you say in your complaint that the article
19 that you are complaining about says that you caused the
20 plane crash, I am asking where in the article do you find
• 21
22
23
that?
A It is implied.
MR. KAHN: I will answer that for him
because the article itself is ripe with inferences.

24
Tom Forcade was the object of various forms of
25
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15 PARK RO\V, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108·9
1 Eder 85
2 government harassment and persecution and all aspects
3 of government that had anything to do with the law
4 enforcement and linking Mr. Eder's name to the EDA,
5 in the sense he was allegedly responsible for in-
6 stituting an investigation in testifying against
7 him, Mr. Forcade, at the grand jury and linking his
8 association to the DEA, to the insertion of the
9 article that Tom told Mr. Weberman that he believed
10 the DEA Special Operations Division may have sabotaged
11
Jack's aircraft, would suggest to an average reader,
12 reading the entire article fairly, that Mr. Eder was
13 somehow tied into this and responsible for this.
14 Q The Jack is Jack someone else?
A Ask him. I didn't write the article, he did.

15
Q Did you ever have any contact with DEA's Special
16
Operations Division?
17
A No, I have never had any contact, except with
18
one person in DEA.
19
Q Who is that?
20
• 21
22
A I don't remember his name but I certainly will
call the DEA and find out about it before the case closes.
Do you know?
23
Q You mean to say you gave --
24
A His name is Don. One primary person with whom
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

1 Eder 86
2 I dealt was Don.
3 Q There are other people you dealt with?
4 A There are other people in the room, I suppose,
5 at various times the discussions went down, but I was only
6 doing business with one guy.
7 Q Doing business was the arrangement with regard
8 to their telephone security and computer security?
9 A No. Computer security. 'rhe other had nothing
10 to do with that agency.
11 Q Had to do with another agency?
12 A The Federal Bureau of Investigation.
13 Q Whom did you deal with there?
14 A Tom, on the West Coast.
15 Q Do you know his name?
16 A Yes. Tom.
17
Q Do you know his last name?
18
A No, but I have it written down somewhere.
19
Q Would-you be willing to disclose that to us?
20
A Undoubtedly, since I am probably going to ask
• 21
22
the man to testify .
Q Where do you find, in the article you are com-
plaining about, any allegation that you caused Mr. Forcade's

23
death?
24
A Let me put it this 1·ray: I don't need a la1·.'Yer
25 .
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES= 349-3108-9
1 Eder 87
2 for that. Going on beyond this, I will start at the be-
3 ginning of the paragraph and this is one paragraph.
4 "In 1977, a Federal grand jury in Brooklyn began
• 5
7
an investigation concerning Tom Forcade, based on the tes-
timony of Chic Eder, a high level DEA, who has been charac-
terized as Mr. Marijuana in several magazine articles." The
3 very next sentence, "The pressure began to build and Tom
9 started going into periods of extreme depression. He would
10 assume a fetal position, cover himself with a sheet, and
remain like that for days."

11
12
It goes on to state he at one point,'' he took
13 an overdose of Qualudes and stumbled over to Gabriel Schang'
14 apartment where he collapsed. Gabriel and her friend,.
Jim Turgus, who worked in Tom's book store across from

15
Gabriel's apartment, took him to Bellevue where his
16
stomach was pumped. "
17
This is stated in one paragraph. That my
18
testimony -- I am reading from this paragraph that my
19
testimony was in fact directly responsible for Tom's
20
••
death .
21
Q That is the paragraph that you find leads the
22
reader to believe you were directly responsible for his
23
death?.
24
A That is correct.
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349·3\0B-9
1 Ed er
2 Q Paragraph 17, you state that you were injured
3 t o the sum of $1 million .
4 How do you compute t hat?
5 A Because I assume the o n e hundre d t ho usand that
6 fellow wa s will in g to p ut into my magazine wo uld ha v e made
7 at l eas t $ 1 million by the end of the year.
8 Q That is the basis for tha t ca l cu l atio n?
9 A Tha t's ri ght.
10 Q What makes you think that Mr . Ryan,· Mis s
11 Partridge, Mr. Mu rdoch and The Village Vo i ce , Inc. were
12 so lely motivate d by animosi ty and hatre d fo r yo u? Para-
13 graph 21.
14 A We ll, I a m not sayi n g that. I do n't know what
15 my lawyer wrote h ere. My statemen t is - -
16 MR . KAHN : Off the reco rd.
17
(Discuss ion off the r e cord .)
18
.MR . I<AHN : Back on the record.
19 A My statement is that A. J . Weberman was
20
mo ti vated by an imosity a nd hatred fo r the p l aint i ff a nd
I f ee l the o t h e r defendant s in the c ase had , the other

21
defendants in the c as e did not c h eck the veracity of A. J.
22
Weberman's story and they have, based o n A. J. Weberrna n's
23
repu tation in the world of journalis m or in t h e l iterary
24
wor ld and o n certa in other thi ng s tha t ar e widely known
25
BLI TZ REPORTING CO.

1 :5 PARK R OW, N.Y . 1003 6 PHO NES: 349 - 3106 - 9
~'
l Eder
2 in the publishing industry, with regard to his
3 and with regard to his journalistic credibility, they
4 should have checked A. J. Weberman extremely close before
• 5
7
printing anything that A. J. Weberman might have submitted.
Q Would you now withdraw the allegation of para-
graph 21 that the other defendants, The Village Voice, Inc.,
8 Ryan and Partridge and Murdoch were solely motivated by
9 animosity and hatred for you and their sole purpose for
10 publishing was to injure you and cause distress?
11 MR. KAHN: The response to the question
12 is no.
13 Off the record.
16
Q Whether in fact the allegation of paragraph 21
of the· complaint is tended to relate only to the defendant

17
18 Weberman or whether you wou].d amend it to delete the
allegation of malicious animosity and hatred presented by

19
the other defendants, that is the question.
20
•
A Yes, I would like to amend my statement.
21
Q You mean the complaint?
22
A Amend this complaint so paragraph 21 only deals
23
with the defendant Weberman in this case. I'm sorry, there
24
is an error in this case and the error is mine for not
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 1003B PHONES: 349-3108-9
1
Eder
2
having properly communicated this to my a tt orne y.
3
think Weberman acted in this manner.
4
I feel in paragraph 22 --
5
6
(Discuss ion off the record.)
7
MR KAHN: On the record.
8
THE WITNESS: Th ere seems to
9 be a lack of communicati on on my part with my
10 att orney.
11 On paragraph 21, I do not honestly
12 believe that the defendants were solely motivated
13 by malicious animosity and hatred.
14 I believe A. J. We b e rman is t he s ingle
15 defendant who was motivated by malicious animosity
16 a nd hatred. The rest of paragraph 21 should only
17 read A . . J. Weberrnan. I don't h onest ly be li eve there
18 wa s a ny conspiracy afoot,
19 I don't think Weberrnan went to thes e
20 people at The Vill age Voice and said, 11

Let 's ge t
21 Chic Eder." And I think he went to The Village
22 Voice an d sold them on this article an d happened
23 to get them to go along with his program to
maliciously ge t me in print.
24
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

1S PARK ROW. N.Y. 1 0038 PHONES' 349 - 3 1 0 8 - 9
1 Eder 91
2 My argument is at this point that I would
3 like to make a statement for .the record, on paragraph
4 21: It is only A. J. Weberman whose motivation was
• 5
7
this.
On paragraph 22, I am going to ask my
attorney, on paragraphs 22 and 23, to delete the
8 conspiracy simply because I don't believe a con-
9 spiracy did in fact exist.
10 My attorney is concerned with the fact
11 that I say this on the record and that some judge
12 might look at that and say that if he is so willing
13 to amend, 1·1ha t is going on here. What is going on
14 here is the mistake is mine. I allowed this to go
15 into the court in this manner, without having read
16 it. I don't believe 22 and 23 are valid. My attorney
did at that time. Since we went in the other room

17
and discussed it, I don't. He still feels there may

18
have been something in that area, but I feel if I
19
leave this complaint as it stands, Mr. Michaels,
20
•
being a lawyer, will make a big issue out of this
21
rather than what the real issue is. lve gave him an
22
issue that allows it to be clouded. I don't want to
23
I
deal with that. I want to change paragraph 21 to
24
read solely A. J. Weberman and 22 and 23 I want to
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK RO\V, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 Eder 92
2 delete. That is all I am saying.

\
3 Q It may be somewhat irregular, so let me commend
4 you for answering candidly .and for allowing us to clarify
• 5
6
this.
When I previously inquired to your attorney
7 what the complaint was about, he told me he was unwilling
8 to answer the question and that we would have to wait until
9 today to find out.
10 I commend you that when it was brought to your
11 attention, that you correct it so we can concentrate on
12 the real issue.
13 A I don't want to cloud the real case with a

l
l4 false case.
15 Q On paragraph 24 it states you sustained actual
16 damages of a million dollars ask for a quarter of a million
in punitive damages because of the conspiracy between A. J.

17
18
h'eberman and The Village Voice and.the other defendants.
19
Would it be your statement that in fact para-
20
graph 24 therefore would have to be amended also?
• 21
22
23
spiracy.
A
Q
Paragraph 24 has nothing to do with the con-
Is that the same $1 million you were telling
us about before that you hoped and expected would be pro-

24
duced from the $100,000 through the publishing?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

1 S PARK ROVI, N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3108·9
1
93
2 A No, this is injury a nd damage .
3 Q How did you comp ute the $ 1 mi llion in paragraph
4 24 ?
5 A One mil l io n is based on the million I wo uld
6 have made with t h e ma gaz ine, and the o th e r one is d amages.
7 That is wha t we are t alking about in pa rag raph 24 .
8 Q Excuse me , I am not clea r abo ut wh a t your
9 answer is .
10 The mi llion dollars that are asked .for ~n
11 paragraph 17 you have told us was money yo u would have
12 ho pe d to make f rom a magazi ne venture wh ich was effecti ve ly
13 killed by the p ublication of this article?
14 A That's correct .
15 Q The million doll ar s on paragraph 24 , wha t
16 million dolla rs is i t that you a ctually lo s t thers; is i t
the same?
17
A Th ere are two mill io ns o n paragraph 24.
18
Q I a m ta lking abou t th e actual damage all ega tion ,
19
not t he pun itive alle0ation .
20
A The first actual l y wa s the millio n dollars I

21
assume d I wou ld h ave made with the magazine and no t lost
22
the $100 , 000 investor .
23
Q That is for paragraph 17 or 24 or are they t he
24
s ame ? I am trying to clarify if i t is the same million
25
BLI TZ REPORTING CO.

15 P ARK ROW . N.Y. 1003 6 PHON E: S ' 349-3106-9
1 Eder 94
2 dollars or a different d amage you sustained?
3 A The same one. l

4 MR. KAHN : Off the record .
5 (Di scuss ion off the record . )
6 MR. MICHAELS : Ba~k on the record.
7 Q In line with what you have told us to clarify
8 the accuracy of the complaint, wo uld I be correct in be-
9 lieving you wou ld also wish to make certain changes within
10 paragraph 6 which charges that each of the defendants did
11 unlawfully plan, plot and conspire between themse lves to
12 publish false, liable and defamatory stateme nts? Is i t
13 each of the defendants that unlawfully conspire d to do
14 that or only Mr . Weberman?
15 A Paragraph 6?
16 Q Twenty-six , I am sorry.
A Twenty-six . I think 26 has to remain .

17
18 MR . KAHN: Off the record .
19 (Discussion off the record . )
MR . KAHN : On the record .

20
Th e answe r to the question is no .
21
22
23
A We do not wish to change it for this re a son .
Tell him t he reason.

'
MR . KAHN: Because our present bel ief
24
25
is tha t the defendan ts did plan to pub li s h and di d

I
\5 PARK ROW. N . Y. \ 0 038 PHONES' 3 49 - 3 \0B-9
1 Eder 95
2 in fact publish, in The Village Voice, the false,
3 malicious statement.
4 Q Referring again to paragraph 26; is it your
• 5
7
belief that each of the other defendants conspired bet1veen
themselves to intentionally publish false information?
A If you are asking me whether I believe they
s sat down with A. J. Weberman and said, "Let's go get this
9 guy," if I believed that, I thought
10 Q ·You do believe the word "conspiracy" in para-
graph 26?
11
12
A However, if my attorney said, if they sat down
13 with Weberman and talked with Weberman in regard to this
14 and checked it and did not check it that is a lawyer's
15
argument and I will let the lawyers argue. My point is --
I want it clear. This is my deposition here -- I feel the

16
other defendants I feel A. J. Weberman has maliciously
17
attempted to attack me in this situation and these people
18
either actively
19
Q You mean the other defendants?
20
•
A The other defendants in the case either
l
21
actively or passively conspired to go along with his pro-
22
gram, to allow --
23
Q Are you claiming they knew the information was
24
false or.they fail~d·to check wh~n they should have?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 · PHONES: 349-3106-9
1 Eder r;; 6·)
~./
2 A What I am saying here -- Off the re cord.
3 (Discussion off the record . )
4 MR. MICHAELS: Back on the r ecord.
5 Q Ar e you claiming that The Village Voice con-
6 spired to
7 MR. KAHN: The claim is - -
8 MR. MICHAELS: Unl e ss you are going on
9 under oath , I ha v e to ask the witness .
10 A I can ' t say under oath I know they cons pire d
11 in the s e nse of the word. I know they conspire d t o be --
12 What I am s a ying is, my fe e ling inhere nt in this para graph
13 26 is the fact that they did publish this information and
14 if they didn't know that i t was fal s e, they sh o uld have
15 known it was false so they s hould at l east , s h ould have
16
checked it prior to having it published.
Q Thank you.
17
A Nex t?
18
Q i·mere do you find in the article publishe d by

19
The Vill age Voice that t his whole c as e conc e rns -- ~vh e re
20
do y ou firid t he s tat e me nt or implica tion t h at you committed
.e 21
perjury b e for e a g ra nd jury, a s all eged in Ar ticle 28?
22
A I don't find that .
23
Q Whe re do you find the all egation that y ou con -
24
s pired to murder Forcade's fri e nd J a ck?
25
B LI TZ REPORTING CO.
15 PARK ROW . N.Y. 10036 PH O NES: 34 9-310 6- 9
1 Eiler 97
2 A I think t hat is inherent in the re. We have

I
3 answered that question.
4 Q Wh ere do you find the a ll egation tha t you con-
6
spired to commit a burglary at Forcade ' s a partment?
A S a me thing .
I
7 Q Where do you find in this artic l e a ny accusa-
8 tion that you committed any crime?
9 Paragraph 29 of t he comp laint refers to a n
10 al l egation within the article of your criminal conduct a nd
11 I am ask ing you what words in the artic le seem to you to
12 be indicative of an accusation that you committed a c r ime ?
13 A That is inherent in there, when he is talking
14 abou t me a s being Mr . -- First of all, I see it. I can
15 agr ee with that . As soon as he talks about me be i ng Mr .
16 Mar ij u a na , the magazine article , with regard to that , dealt
17 with that criminal conduct.
18 Q In other words , the crimina l conduct p h ra se
19 within paragraph 29 refers to marijuana v e ntures and not
20 t o a ny alle g ation in the story that you committe d a perjury
before a grand jury, c a used the cra s h of an airplane,

21
murder or burglary or anything else ?
22
MR. KAHN : Off the r e cord .
23
(Discus sion off the record .)
24
A On the record. It states in this a rticle that -
25
BLITZ REPORT ING C O.

15 P A RK ROW . N.Y. 1 0038 PHONES: 349-3106-9
1 Eder 98
2 The article puts me and the DEA as synonymous . The
3 art icle further states that Weberman believed the DEA
4 burgled Forcade's apartmen t and the DEA caus e d the d e ath
5 of J ack. So if I am , in fact, if I am seen as being part
6 of the DEA, then the inference is I also wa s part of tha t.
7 Q Where it says in paragraph 29 tha t the accusa-
8 tions of criminal conduct that you infer from t he art icle
9 were published by the defe ndants -- I believe the word
10 should · rea d "malice," in that they we re publi shed with
11 knowledg~ of their falsity or serious doubts as to their
12 truth . Do you intend to allege that The Village Voice,
13 Ryan, Murdoch and Partridge h ave actua l malice a nd knew
14 the statements were false or had serious doubts as to
15 their truth?
16
A Yes , I mean that p a rt. Yes , that is definite .
17 Q As a result of this article you claim in para-
18 graph 30 that you were held up a nd expos ed to p ublic con-
temp t.
19
20 Are you speaki ng about the a r tic le itself or
about some other expos ure to public contempt and scorn and
21
ridicule that resu lte d from the article?
22
A That is what I a m talking ahout .
23
Q Do you me an by this art icle or by something
24
else that resulted from the article?
25
B LITZ REPORTING CO.

1.5 PARK ROW. N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3 108- 9
1 Eder 99
2 A I don ' t know what yo u are t alking abo ut.
3 Q I will rephrase the que st ion.
4 Were you saying in paragraph 30 that you wer e
5 held up a n d e x posed t o public contempt , scorn and r i d icul e ?
6 Do yo u mean by the pub licat i o n of this article or do you
7 mea n t he publication of this article caused some other
8 humili ating even t to occur and caused p e ople to scorn and
9 condemn you ?
10 A The l atte r. The publ ication of the arti cle
11
ca u sed it.
12 Q From whom did c on t empt and scorn and ridicule
13 come ?
14 A My contemporaries ; my peers .
15 Q Was the re any particula r perso n that expresse d
scorn, contempt and r i dicu l e , b e s ides the ones you h ave

16
already told us abo ut ?
17
A Numero us people . Enou g h s o this is a val id
18
paragraph. Mayb e ten, f i ft e e n, twenty p e ople .
19
Q Could yo u gi v e us the n a mes that e x pre s se d that ?
20
A Here in New York City?
21
Q Anywh e re .
22
A Yes . I can give you name s ri ght away , without
23
any troub l e. Char l es B. Klein, Mr . John Farrell , Caro l
24
Tacher , an d given time , I wi ll come up wi th a list of the s e
25
B LIT Z REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW. N .Y. 1 0038 PH O NES: 349·3 1 08- 9
1
2 peop le.
Ec'le r
At t he time of our trial , we wil l suhpo~na a nd

GJ
3 put t h es e people on the stand a nd you will be a ble to
4 cross exami ne them , Mr. Michaels .
5 Q In the same paragraph you c laim you suffered
6 grave and i rreput ab le injury a nd s uff ered grea t emotio nal
7 distres s and anguish.
8 Can yo u t e ll us to what exte nt you have s u ffered
9 A Wel l, y e s . I don't have any sca le fo r psychic
10 · d a ma g e.
11 Q Have y ou found it necessary t o see med i ca l
12 or psychiatric t reatme nt?
13 A No.
Q You are s~eaking the n about the injury to your

14
fee lin g s?
15
A My emotions . Emotional dist.re s s ano anguis h.
16
That paragraph stand s.
17
Q 'l'he grave a nd irrep utable injury to your pro-
18
fess ion a l houor that you speak of in that paragraph, is
19
t hat i n your profession as a n outlaw?
20
A In my profession a s a n outlaw and wou ld-be
21
maga zine publ ication, as we ll as any other ventures I mi gh t
22
be in.
23
Q Paragraph 31 , again , asks for $1 mi llion in
24
actual damage s a n d a f u rth er million in punitive damages .
25

15 PARK ROW, N.Y. 10038 PHONES : 349 - 3 1 08-9
1 Eder 101
2 Is that the same million dollars that you l ost or is th is
3 a n allegation that y ou lost a n addit ional million?
4 A One million is fine with me .
5 Q It is the same million dollars?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Fine . Para grap h 36 aga in claims $1 mi llio n
8 in actual damages a nd $1 million in puni tive damages .
9 Is it the same million that we have a lready
10
heard about ?
11
A Are we padding this bill? Because if we a re,
12 thi s bill is a million. Do we have to ? It is the s ame
13 mi llion .
14 Q At paragraph 38 where you state that th e de-
fendants acted in a vicious, ma li cious and intentional

15
manner wi t h the sole p urpose of injur ing y ou, did you mean
16
that to app ly to all defe nd ant s or o nly defendant Weberman ?
17
A I thi nk f or th e time being we will let it app ly
18
to all defenda nts until such time -- we will al l ow tha t
19
because I think tha t might have been vicious, maliciou s
20
and intenti ona l , since my beli e f i s they didn ' t have t o
21
al l ow t ha t to be printed and by a llowing that to be prin ted,
22
they acted in a vicious and malicious and in tent iona l
23
manne r .
24
Q In paragraph 39, where you request punitive
25

15 P AR K ROW, N .Y. 1 003 8 PHONES' 349-3108-9
1 Eder 102
2 damages in the amount of $3 mil lion , is that duplication
3 of the previous claims for mo ney or is that a sepa rate
4 claim?
5 MR . KAIIN : That is a separate claim .
6 A That is a sepa rate claim, my lawyer says.
7 Q How was that figure computed ?
8 MR. KAHN : Do you want it on t h e record ?
9 MR . MICHAELS: Yes .
10 MR. KAHN: The fi g ure for puniti ve
damages does n't have to be computed .

11
12 Q Mr . Eder, have you given various interviews
13 to reporters concerni ng your history as a n outlaw?
14
A Yes.
Q Have you done that with the knowledge that it

15
would resu lt in publication of that . history?
16
A Yes .
17
Q In fact , haven ' t you sought the title and
18
identified yourself as Mr . Marijuana ?
19
A No , I h ave not identified myself as Mr .
20
Marijuana .
21
Q Have yo u ever been called that in print that
22
you know of?
23
A Yes, I have been ca lled ~lat in print.
24
Q Were you called that in print by reporters that
25
BLITZ REPORTING co_

15 PARK R OW. N.Y . 10038 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 Eder 103
2 yo u h a d give n informat i o n to vo luntar ily ?
3 A No. I don't b e li eve s o, unless Goldma n may
4 ha v e ca lled me that at some time, but I don't think s o.
5 Q Yo u have appear e d o n t he front page of New
6 York Magaz ine?
7 A I wa s a cove r boy.
8 Q Isn't it true your reputation a s a n outlaw
9 produced publicity you felt was ben e ficial to you ?
10 A Mos t definitely .
11 Q Isn't i t true you have admitted many times ,
12 fo r publ ication, your invol vement as a n ou t law in marijuana
13 smuggling v e ntu re s?
14 A No, that is not t r ue.
15 Q You hav e spoken out abo ut your f eeling s abo ut
16 the marij uana l aws for publication purposes ?
17
A Most definitely.
18 Q Yo u h ave done s o with t h e i dea of h e lping to
19 influence the public to take a more ra tional view with re-
20
gard to the l aw ; i s n't t h a t correct?
A I will agree with that -.

21
Q Did you eve r sell phone fraud d e vic e s?
22
A Yes.
23
Q How many times ?
24
A How many times did I sel l them?
25
BLITZ REPORTING co_

15 PARK R OW . N.Y . 10038 PH O N E S : 349 -3 108 - 9
1 Eder 104
2 Q Yes .
3 A Twen ty, fifty . Fifty is a good figure , a p-
4 proximately.
J
5 Q Did y ou eve r wa rn smugg l ers abo ut Coast Guard
6 inves ti ga tions in orde r t o help them evade capture ?
7 A That's correct.
8 Q How many t i mes ?
9 A Every time I ever g ot the info rmation.
10 Q How many times might that be , approximate ly?
11
A At l eas t t e n.
12 Q Is it true you were n ame d a nd i ndic ted as co-
13 cons pirator in a recent a rres t of approximately t e n perso ns
14 in New J ersey on drug charges?
15 A That is not true , to my know l e d g e .
16 Q Have you eve r bee n n amed and ind icted as c o-
conspirator i n any indictment yo u know of?

17
18
A No . May I as k the l ocatio n in Ne w Jersey ?
19 Q Le t's l eave the poin t for a mome nt.
In fact , in the various times you have spoke n

20
to reporters or spoke n with the know l e d ge that your word s
21
migh t be publishe d, h aven ' t y ou sou g ht to ma ke yourse lf
22
a public fi g u re on the mar ijuana i ssue?
23
A No , it just happened that way .
24
Q Haven't you sou g ht to make yourse lf k n own a s
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW . N .Y . 1 003 6 PHONES : 3"9-3106- 9
1 Ede r 105
2 a n impo r ta nt person in t h e ma r iju a na outl~w hu s in csses ?
3 A No . In f a ct, I do just the oppo s ite. In
4 bo t h a r ticl e s that were writte n in NEW YORK MAGAZINE , the
·e 5 exa ct oppo s i te of t hat.
6 Q Can you explain what you me an?
7 A Don't have t o . Yo u as ked me a ~ u es tion a nd
8 I an s we red y our que s tion . I intended to do t he o p po s ite .
9 The big ma n is like o ne of the big money g uys. The f irst
10 article a bout New York, we jus t d e alt with the New York
dope scene on a s mRll l e vel. On the s e con d l eve l, we

11
12 d e alt with s mu gg ling from Col o mbia . It wa s r e ally a n
13 a rticle a bout how ine pt we were in that. I b e li e v e j u st
14 the o pposi t e would be the cas e .
Q Would you object if any attorney , who f o rmally

15
repr ese nte d y ou , had informed that you in fact h a d b e e n a
16
DEA informa nt? Would y ou object to that b e ing reve al ed ?
17
A Ye s , I would .
18
Q Would y ou a llow de f e ndant Web erman to o bta in
19
a n y g ove r nme nt r eco rds t hat may ~x ist whi c h ma y conce rn
20
a ny a ctivitie s you might h ave had a s a DEA info r mant?
21
A I will not allow him t he time of d ay. Ge t it
22
in t he r e cord. An y thing I c a n do towa rd h e l p ing A . J.
23
Web e r man, I will c onsciously avoid doing tha t.
24
Anything e lse?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

I 5 P AR K R O W . N.Y. I 0 0 38 PH O N E S' 3 4 9 - 310 8 - 9
1 Eder 106
2 Q Who represents you in the marijuana conviction
3 which is now on appeal?
4 A Joel -- I'm sorry, I don't remember the guy's
5 last name. I am very bad on last names. It took me three
6 months -- Joel begins with an H.
7 Q Is he associated in any way that you know of
8 with your present attorney?
9 MR. KAHN: Are you referring to me?
MR. MICHAELS: Yes.

10
MR. KAHN: The answer is no.
11
A I told you I can get you that. Is that an im-
12
13
portant question? Because if it is, I will make a quick
phone call and give you the name.

14
Q At the start of our examinations today, before
15
we commenced the formal examination, you told me about a
16
young lady who said that she --
17
A That is irrelevant. I am going to answer that
18
question.
19
Q I was not about to mention the name.
20
•
A You are not going to mention that fact. I am
21
not going to deal 1·1ith that fact.
22
Q You told me about a person who had been quoted
23
as saying they were rich -- had become rich because of their
24
contact with you. In fact, isn't that true, that there are
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW. N.Y. 10038 PHONES: 349.3108·9
1 Eder 107
2 many peop l e who have prospered because of their cont<tcts
3 with you ?
4 A Th ere most defi ni te ly are because t hat is why
,·e s I don ' t have to worry abou t mak i ng r~ore than $100 , bec<tuse
6 there are many people who have their money today because
7 they knew me . And I introduced them to certain p e op le
8 where they probab ly made money in the marijuana business .
9 If tha t is the question , the answer is ye s .
10 Q I am getting towards the close of the ques tions
11
I have for you.
12 Mr . Eder , yo u have told us about a great many
13 crimes you have committed, a t least as the law presently
14 defines the kind of behavior we have been discussing .
15 Are y o u aware that your ndmiss ions with regard
to those crimes might possibly be the s ubj ect of prosecu-

16
tions of you ?
17
A Tha t is right , but i t certainl y is no t secre t
18
a s to the business tha t I have been in over a period of
19
t ime. I have bee n arrested on n umerous occasions on
20
P~~
marijuana convictions . I have told the J;l.;ltrol Board in the
21
State of California that I intend to continue in the
22
marijuana game foreve r or at l eas t as long as it l asts ,
23
and I have no intention of stopping marijuana and I h ave
24
no bones , whatsoever -- NEW YORK MAGAZINE had a fu ll page
25
15 PARK ROW, N.Y. I 0 03 8 PHONES: 349 - 3108 -9
1 Eder 108
2 illustration tha t showed the p i cture of my h ead with a
3 joi nt and it state d at the bottom , "Chic's the name a nd
4 smokes the game. "
5 Q Did yo u eve r say that?
6 A I say it al l the t i me .
7 Q Do you have cards printed tha t say that?
8 A No , I never had cards printed that said that ,
9 but Albert Go l dman had cards p rinted that said that.
T6 Q Did you distribute those cards ?

10
A Sure .
11
Q I n fac t, you have l e t a lot of peop le know
12
13 about these acti vities which the present law says is
criminal?
14
A There is no secret whatsoever . It happens
15
tha t I was two or three years ahead of everybody e l se.
16
Since the TIMES article two or three week s
17
ag.o, with The Colomb i an being the h ead artic l e , a lot of
18
peop l e have jumped into wha t I have. We don ' t care wha t
19
the governmen t thinks of i t . We don't t hink there is any
20
stigma attached to the business we are invo l ved in , an d
21
therefore we don ' t care wh ether the government sees it a s
22
criminal or not . I believe you wi ll f ind yo ur client ,
23
A . J. Weberman , fee l s exactly the same way.
24
Q There are many people who fee l that mari juana
25
B LITZ REPORTING C O.
15 PARK ROW. N.Y. 1 003 8 PHONESo 349-3108-9
1 I:der 109
2 l aws shoul d be cha n qed and I woul~ n ' t a ebate you Rt th is
3 time or probably under other c i rcumstances either , but
4 under t he categories of the present law , wh n.t yo u are
e 5 seeking to protect here is your repu tation as a c apab le
6 a nd h onest crimina l, is i t not?
7 A I objec t to the word " criminal. " I don ' t know
8 what t he present l a w calls fo r .
9 What I a m stating is , I prefer the word " outlaw "
be use d , a s opposed t o cri mina l. Other t h a n that , my

10
answer --
11
Q But the g i st of the l awsuit , p rime thrust i s
12
by saying you testified , that you instiga ted a prosec ut i o n
13
a nd gave info rmat i o n agains t Tom Forcade , tha t the d amage
14
that has been do n e to y ou is the difficulty and the l o ss es
15
y o u have sustained as an o utl a w , a s a seller of ma rijuana
16
A Tha t ' s correc t .
17
MR . MICHAE LS : Off the r ecord.
18
(Di sc u ss ion off the record .)
19
!1R . MICHAELS: On the recor d .
20
Q Mr . Eder , you told us yo u a re s eeking a pub l i c
21
forum in wh ich to s how t he allegations in the article abo ut
22
you are i n fa l se ; is tha t t r ue ?
23
A That ' s co rrec t .
24
Q You are aware the gover nme nt usua l l y s hields
25
B LI TZ REPORT ING C O .
15 PA RK ROW . N.Y. l 003 8 PH O NES: 349-3108-9
1 Eder 110
2 the identity of its informants and the government has a
3 policy of protecting the identity of their informants,
4 are you not?
5 A Yes.
6 Q In seeking a public forum to discuss this
7 truth or falsity of the allegations about you in the
8 article, are you willing to waive any privilege that you
9 might conceivably have as to the protection to any iden-
10 tification you may ever have·had as an informant?
A When that comes to court, when that gets into

11
12 court and I put witnesses on the stand, if those witnesses
13 are members of a governmental agency, investigative agency
14 such as DEA and the FBI, and those people are placed on
15 the stand as defense witnesses, then they are open for
16
cross examination and in doing that, I am putting my neck
on the chopping block. It is that simple; so?

17
18
Q Should a guestion come up --
A For the record, I wave nothing but the
19
American flag and I only do that on the 4th of July.
20
• 21
22
23
Q Are you therefore claiming the protection of
whatever government policies may exist to shield informants,
through the course of this lawsuit?
A That is a loaded question. I am not going to

24
answer that question.
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y, 10036 PHONES: 349-3108-9
1 Eel e r 1 11
2 Q Do you c l aim the she l ter given hy law?
3 A Tha t i s a l o a d e d questi on . You ca n r ephras e
4 i t e i ghteen t i mes. It is a l oaded que stion a nd I am no t
5 go ing t o dea l with i t.
6 Q Are . yo u c l aim i ng any pr i vi l ege o f the
7 A That is a l oaded question a n d yo u can reph rase
8 i t anoth e r seventeen t i me s , b ut more th a n tha t, yo u do n ' t
9 ge t . You get seve nteen mo re reph rase s and you wi l l get the
same a nswe r . It i s a loaded q u es tio n .

10
MR. MICHAELS : Of f t h e record .

11
12.
( Discussion of f the record .)
13 A On the record .
14
Q Mr . Ede r, i f in fac t there i s some g ove rnment
re c ord somewhere tha t what Mr . Weberma n sa i d in the artic l e

15
i s in fact true , are yo u i ntendi ng t o , throug h th i s l aws uit,
16
c l a i mi n g it i s no t t r u e an d us i ng that pro t ection of s hi e ld -
17
i n g the name s o f rea l info rmants ?
18
A That l eaves yo u sixteen way s of rephrasing t h a t
19
question.
20
Aga in, Mr . Mi c h ae l s , th at is a loaded que stion
21
and as such , I am not go i n g to dea l with that questi o n a t
22
this po i n t . So agai n , yo u h ave s i xtee n more rephrases .
23
Fo r t he record , it is now a q u ar ter t o six . We
24
have been h ere since two o' c l ock .
25
B LITZ R E P ORT I NG C O .
15 PARK R O W, N .Y. 1 003 8 PH O NES' 349 - 3 1 08 -9
1 Eder 112
2 Q Do you h ave any concern there mi ght be any
3 governmental files anywhere that might say you are their
4 governmenta l informant?
• 5
7
A Obviously, since an informant is the one tha t
gives up in format ion, regardless of the connotation of the
society, since I have given information on two separate
8 occasions to two g overnmen ta l bodies, one to each, there
9 is no question whatsoeve r that somewhere a long the line,
10 we put a guy on the stand and there is a n informant and
11 he informed on this and this and at that time you will h ave
12 a n opportunity to cross examine . If you are ask ing me to
13 wa ive any rights , to give this degenerate
14 Q Pointing to Mr. Weberman .
15 A If you are asking me to waive rights and give
16
him the right to get my reports on the
Q No , I am not . I think you misunderstand the

17
question . I am asking you whether in fact you intend t o
18
take advantage of the government policy to refuse to
19
identify the rea l names of informants?
20
A You got fifteen, I think, left. That is another
21
rephrasing of the ques tion .
22
Q ·when you take the stand , do you intend to tell
23
the court that yo u seek the protection of the secrecy of
24
the names of informants while you s u e somebody on you r
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N . Y. 10038 PHONES: 3d9·3 10B·9
1 Eder 113
2 claim t hat it is not true?
3 A Again , we are dealing with the same thing . This
4 man has stated in print that I testified .before a grand
- 5
7
jury in Brooklyn. I am not ove rly concerned whether it is
a hi gh-level DEA informant. You made the i ssue on this .
I already stated to yo u I informed the DEA , I gave them a
8 piece of info rmation. I traded them for it and you are
9 asking me to g o further tha n that , and I a m not willing to
go further than tha t.

10
My contention is I never testified anywh ere in
11
Brooklyn or New Jersey or any other place t h a t you are

12
talking about , and that is the thrust of my contention
13
wi t hin this lawsuit.
14
Q Wil l you allow gov ernment o ff icials to testify ,
15
if that is , in fact , yes , yo u were a n informant in other
16
ways , in other cases besides wha t you have told us today?
17
A I don ' t h ave a choice , i f you cal i these peop le
18
t o the stand.
19
Q You don ' t claim any protection?
20
A I didn ' t say that and you are tryins the same
21
thing agai n, Michaels .
22
Of f the record .
23
(Discussion off the record. )
24
MR . MICHAELS : On the record, p l eas e.
25

1 114
2 Q Mr . Eder , in those limite d inst.1nc e s where
3 yo u did provide information t o the FBI an d DEA , whi c h yo u
.. 4
s
6
h.:ive told us abont , <lo you heJi e ve that informat ion was
helpfu l
A
to the FBI and the DEA?
Yes , I mos t definitely believe it WQS helpfu l
7 to t h e FB I and the DEA . However --
8 Q Did that he l p mainta i n the integrity of their
personrn~l and secnri ty systems ?

9
A Only the sec u r ity systems , Rnd my contention is
10
that in no way jeopardized my standi ng a s ~n out l aw , simply
11
because in pr i son pnr l ance , a " ra t " o r "informa nt" is one
12
who takes advantage of gett ing out of doing jail time by
13
p utting some one else in that cage in his place , so my dea l-
14
ing with the government was without hurting another humHn
15
being . I don ' t feel I deserve the reputation of bein9 a
16
rat .
17
Does t~at ~nswe r yo ur question ?
18
Q It is a n answe r to the question .
19
If you bc-1 i eve th a t yon r ,.1ork for the g over nment
20
h e l ped t o protec t security o f go ve r n~enta l information i n
21
dea li ng s with criminal prosecuti ons , is it not true the
22
he l p yo u p ro vi ded probahly res ulted in people being jailed?
23
A No . Most definitely not . ~~e help I provided ,
24
agai n , was in te l ling - - are you speak in g of the FRI or the
25
BLITZ REPOR TI NG C O .
15 PARK ROW. N .Y . 1 0036 PHONES: 349-3106- 9
1 Eder 115
2 drug enforcement agencies?
3 Q Both.
4 A The Federal Bureau of Investigation presented
5 leaks in the national security system. Since I had the
6 ability to tap the FBI's phone, I had the same ability to
7 tap any government phone in that area, hased on the way
8 they were doing things at that point in time.
9 'rhe second thing was that certainly wouldn't
10 have led to the arrest or conviction of any human being.
11 The second thing with regard to the Drug Enforcement Ad-
12 ministration, the Drug Enforcement Administration doesn't
13 like a lot of things I do. You broughtup the point of
14 warning the ships. I have done that on numerous occasions. 1

The government is very upset about it~ They didn't get --
15
They didn't get any positive convictions out of anything
16
that I told them. What they did get, the furthest you
17
could possibly stretch my help to the government is I might
18
have been able to give this information as to how to plug
19
in the computers to somebody who it might have helped them
20
•
to avoid capture. This is the furthest you could possibly
21
stretch the damage I would have done to another outlaw.
22
Q The damage to another outlaw, even if you had
23
not given a name, that resulted in immediately and directly
24
in an arrest; isn't that true? The assistance you provided
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW, N.Y, 10038 PHONESi 349-3108-9
1 Eder 116
2 probab l y h e l ped the effici ency of the l a w e n forceme nt
3 agenc i e s by t hose a ge n cies tha t some peop le were a rres ted
4 that otherw i se wo uld not h ave b een arreste <l?
5 A Abso lute l y not .
6 Q Wh ere d id yo u get the lis t of wa nte d s hi p s
7 whi c h I think you call e d a hot s h eet? Where did yo u ge t
8 the list?
9 A Which one? I can state very simpl y that on a t
10 l east te n times I have gotten ten l ists.
Q Fro m wh om ?
11
12 A From various sources .
13 Q From whom ?
14 A F rom variou s so ur ces. That is an ans we r to
t he q u es tion.
15
Q Are yo u wil l ing t o identify t he source s?
16
A I am unwilling to identify any of the source s.
17
MR . KAHN : Off the rec6rd .
18
(Di s cussion o f f the record.)
19
MR. MICHAELS : Back on the record .
20
Q Go ahead .
21
A I a m l os t .
22
Q Are yo u dec lining to answe r t he quest i o n?
23
A What question?
24
Q The ques tion is, wo uld you p l ease tel l us the
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW . N. Y . 1 003 8 PHONES : 349-3108- 9
1 Eder 117
2 peop le from wh om you go t the li sts of h o t ships , of wa nte d
3 s hips?
4 A Of course not.
e 5 Q Thank you.
6 A No, not " thank you." Let me comp l e te my answe r
7 to the question . Of course, any perso n who stole these
8 are gener al ly teletype that were teletyped to various Coast
9 Guar ds and some time s a full hot s heet, an d a t any time a ny -
10 b o dy gave me that info r ma tion, a lot of people were working
11 f or t he government a nd there were kids that wo rked for the
12 Coas t Gua rd and peo p le who worke d in governme nt a gencies
13 for which we paid for these hot shee ts . Of course we
14 couldn 't t e ll you that .
MR. MICHAELS : Subject to my cl i ent 's

15
approval , I h ave complete d my examina t ion . I \van t

16
to tha nk Mr. Ka hn , our r eporter , and Mr. Ede r, as
17
·we ll.
18
Q Mr. Ede r, our concluding quest i ons are as
19
follows :
20
Had you re ad the c ompla int in this case p rior
21
to today ?
22
A I'm sorry , no.
23
Q Do you know whe the r your attorney in t his
24
matter ever previously rep re sented Mr . Thomas Forcade or
25

1 F.c'ier 118
2 any of his busines s ventures?
3 A You h ave to depose my attorney.
4 Q I am ask ing whether you have any knowledge .
5 I am not asking you the fact .
6 A Whether I have any knowled0e?
7 Q Do you know whether yo ur present attorney , Mr .
8 Kahn , sitting n ext to you , ever previously rcpres cm ted Mr.
9 Fo rcade or his business ve ntures?
10 A I believe he may h ave been represe nting
11 Transhigh Corporation somewh ere along the line. I don ' t
12 know if he ever represented Tom personally.
13 Q Do you know how that relationship t e rminate d?
14 A I have no idea. I don ' t eve n know if i t has
15
terminated .
Q At my client's request , I want to ask one fina l

16
question , which is whether you discussed this matter 't>'li th

17
y ou r attorney before t~e comp laint was drawn , whe the r y o u
18
informed him th a t you saw the princi pa l dama0e to you r
19
r e putation as the d amage to your re::>u·ta t i o n as t o ·what yo u
20
call an outlaw?
e 21
22
A I think ~~at I said to my attorney was this was
a malicious attack by A. J . Weberman and these peop l e shou ld

23
have known it was a malicious attack by Nebernan . They
24
should have chec ked the vera c ity of the statement that I
25

15 P A RK ROW. N.Y. 10038 PH ONES: 349-3 1 08- 9
1 Eder 119
2 te s tified b e fore a grand jury and I said I want to s ue him
3 a nd he said, " I don ' t t hink it would take too much time .
4 Sure I wil l help you . " That ' s i t .
5 Q You did not in fact discuss with him what ar e a
6 of your reputation, that is, your r e putation as an outla w ,
7 which you felt was a principa l
8 A That is privileged communication what I discus s e
9 with my atto r ney .
10 Q At my clie nt.' s request , do you know of the
reason why the att o r ney is repre senting you without com-
11
12 pensation?
13 A Why don' t you ask my attorney?
14 Q I am a sking you if you know .
A I have no idea . I think perhaps he likes me .

15
Despite the fact that I am an o utlaw , I think he likes me.
16
EXAMINATION BY MR . KAHN :
17
Q In the course of the d e position we h ave d is -
18
cussed the state me nt in the November 2 7, 1978 Vill a ge Voice
19
a rticle by Mr . We ber man that Chic Ed e r wa s a hi ~h- l e vel
20
DEA informant .
21
Would y ou please t e l l me wh a t " info rmant"
22
g e n erally me a ns or what you understa nd the word "informa nt "
23
to me an ?
24
A What I unde rstand the word "informa nt" t o mea n ,
25
15 P A RK RO W. N.Y. \ 003 8 PH O NE S: 3 '19 - 3 1 0 8-9
1 Eder 120
2 since the ma jority of my adult life was s p e nt in prison
3 situations , my terminolog y of "informa nt" is one who trades
4 his cag e , trade s, gives up his cag e -- let me rephrase
e 5 th a t - - is one who gets out of a cage by p utting a nother
6 ma n in t he cage in his pl ac e , and I h a ve neve r done that
7 and I never i n tend to do t hat.
8 Q Is the term "cop" sometimes trea t e d s ynonymous l y
9 in y our understa nding, with t he word "in fo r mant"?
10 A Erroneous ly. Again , my parlance is based
11 primar ily o n prison . A cop is a cop and a rat is a rat .
12 They are t wo separate a nd distinct e ntities .
13 Q Looking at the article we are dis cussing , I
14 am calling your atte ntion t o a c ouple of sen tences tha t
15 say , '\ery few other p eople wo uld h e lp Tom. Rubin and Tom
16 had ca lled me a cop . Rub in a nd Hoffman had called him a
17 cop during the yippe e- z i ppy c onfli c t in Miami , a nd that
18 l abe l s tuck . Eve ntually both Abby and .._l'erry admi tte d t his
19
wa s t:he wr ong t hing to do. "
20 A I canno t a n swe r for A . J. Weberman 's wr iti ng ,
s ince I didn't write that . A . J. Weber.ma n - - at no time,

21
t o my knowledge , was Tom accused of bei ng a c op. He was
22
a ccused of b e ing a n age nt , of be ing an info r ma nt and
23
a ccused of work ing for the intelligence community.
24
At no t ime in my knowl e d ge was he eve r accu sed
25

15 PARK RO W. N.Y. 1 003 8 PHON ES ' 349 - 3 1 08- 9
1 Eder 121
2 of being a cop.
3 Q Does the word " informant " in t h e se nse t h a t
4 you understand it , have a very n egati ve connotat ion?
5 A About as negative a s yo u c a n get .
6 Q Would you say it also is a n egat i ve connota tio n
7 among you r fr i e n ds , fami ly and busines s a ssoc i ate s ?
8 A The wor d "infor mant" i s not on ly amongst th e
9 rat, s omeone who betrays the t r ust of his peers, it is
10 l ooke d upon as a piranha by our society . We ar e dea ling
with go ing al l t he way t o Ju da s a nd J esus , ri g ht up to the

11
12 i nfor~ant, wh i c h was later redone with bl ack s no t too many
13 year s ago on every l eve l in t he society , e xcep t f or possih ly
14 a few of the n ewe r cop shows i n which a pimp rat , who is
15
looked upon as a hero. In most l eve l s of s ocie ty , in-
forman t is loo ked upo n as a l ow li f e.

16
Q Is the word "i nforman t" synonymous wi t h t he
17
word 11
snitch ?
11
18
A Exact l~. Mos t definitely .

19
Q ~.ne ther parag raph: " Recen t l y Rick Nemay , in -
20
formant , FBI , snake , who in f iltrate d the zip pies and c a me
21
doi n g a boo k for Quadrangl e Press about his expe riences ,

24
refused to he l p frame him. 11
25
B LIT Z RE P O RTING CO.

15 PARK ROW . N . Y. 10038 PHONES: 349-3 1 08- 9
1 F.ncr 1 22
2 In regar d to t h at paragraph, hy contrast of
3 t he paragraph in which your name was mentioned , what d id
4 t h a t sugges t t o you?
5 A It suggested to me he was a good guy and no t
6 a rat an d I was a bad guy and a rat . In th is case , tha t
7 is what it s u gges ts to me .
8 Taking the artic l e as a whole , looking a t tha t
9 paragraph and ·che paragraph abo ut me, one is the good g uy
10 a nd one is the bad guy .
11 Q You test ified that you had given v ery limited
l2 i nformat ion to t he FBI in 1975. Have you g i v e n informatio n
13 to t he FB I in the years subsequent to 1975?
14 A Let me dea l with tha t. I h a ve wo r k e d once
15 with the FBI and I stated at whic h time I worked wi t h th e m.
16 And I worke d with t h e ones with t h e Drug Enforce ment Ad-
17
mi ni stra tion and t hat's it , b aby .
18 Q Wi t h r e spect to the Drug Enforce me nt Adminis -
tra tion wi t h which yo u made your arrangement in 1 976 , h a ve

19
yo u give n them a ny furth e r in formation in 1977 , 1 978 o r
20
1979?
21
A I had no contac t wh a tsoe ver .
22
Q At t h e time this artic l e refers to , whe n it
23
r e fers to you r name in 1977 , it i s th e r e fore the case tha t
24
y ou we re not d e aling with or giving a ny in f o rma tio n wh a t-
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK ROW. N.Y. 1 0038 PHONES: 349·3106· 9
1 Erl e r 123
2 soever t o t he DEA at tha t t i me ?
3 A Tha t i s cor r ec t .
4 Q I n c o mmo n pa rl a n c e , t h e wo r d " i n fo rma nt," i s
5 tha t g e n e ra l l y unde rstoo d t o mea n s o meone who me r e l y g i v e s
6 some i nformat i o n a bout the te c hn i c a l da ta , s uch a s you ga ve ,
7 or i s it more sure ly u n d e rstood t o mea n a s nit c h of r a t
8 th a t tur ns o n s ome speci f ic - -
9 A I n g ene·ca l , i n a socie t y i n gen e ra l , U1e wo r d
10 " informa nt ," if it i s no t u sed in a c r i mi na l comp l aint , has -
it is no t a devil word . It is no t a d e v il word i f y o u say ,

11
12 " I h a ve a n i nfor ma nt who te lls me t h a t if I g o into th e
13 b u si n ess in Ha i t i t omor r ow , I a m goi n g to ma ke a l o t o f
14 mone y ." That i s a n in fo r ma nt wh o g i v e s tha t info rma t ion.
As we k now it wi t h i n the st r u ctu re of t h e

15
s ocie ty i n wh ic h I li ve a n d t h a t is n o t on ly th e peo p le
16
who a re e n g a ged i n outl aw a cti v iti e s b ut p e o p l e I know
17
s oci a l l y a nd persona lly , t h e word " informan t" i s a b o u t a s
18
low a word , it ' s a bout a s d ero gatory a nd p ejo rative a wo r d
19
a s y o u c a n us e aga ins t a h uman b e ing .
20
Q Is t ha t bec aus e i t is t rea t 8d as meaning y o u
21
gi v e informat i o n 1 a b o u t a noth e r h uma n be in g t h a t ca u sed his
22
a rres t?
23
A No, it ' s b e cau se i t is t re a te d , tra din g y o u r
24
c age with ano t h e r ma n , p utting another man i n a c age s o
25
B LI TZ R EPO RTING CO.

15 P AR K R O W, N.Y. 1 00 3 8 P H O N E S: 3 4 9 - 3 108- 9
1 E<ler 124
2 you don ' t h ave to go into a caqe.
3 Q Whe n you r e ad the article by Mr . We b e rma n , d id
4 yo u understand that to mean he was stating or implying yo u
s gave information to a grand jury with r e spect t o ~om Forc a de
6 for the purp ose of putting him in a c a ge and k eeping yo u
7 out?
8 A Ex act ly . He says tha t I ga ve testimo ny b e fore
9 a gran d j ury in Brooklyn in the year 1977 . This is a lie.
10 That is. the who le crux of my c as e . All the r e st of wha t
is b e ing state d is great b e tween l awyers , but my case is

11
very s i mp ly that this man has said that I t e stifi e d before
12
13 a g ran d jury against anothe r human being a nd I n e ver <lid
14
t his . And I f e e l he did this ma lic iou s l y and with the
intent ion of trying to hurt me . Th i s is my wa y of e x pres s-

15
ing this lawsuit .
16
Q Do you h a ve a ny inkling a s to why Mr . We b erma n
17
b ears a ny f eeling of ma lice , ho s tility t owards y o u in-
18
dividually?
19
MR . MICHAE LS: Obj ~c ti on . As k e d a nd
20
a n swe r e d. Didn't we vi e w t h a t spec i f ic a llegatio n ?
21
MR . KAHN : I do n ' t r eca ll t h a t y ou asked
22
him.
23
Q I n addition to the spe cific a llega tion tha t wa s
24
ma de by you a b o ut Mr. We ber rnan , do you h a ve a ny t hing more ?
25
B LITZ REPORT I NG CO.

15 PARK R O W . N.Y. 1 0 038 PH O N ES: 349- 3108-9
1 Eder 125
2 A Yes, I think th e re is more .
3 Q I wo ul d like to know if there is anything e lse .
r7 4 A He says it right in his artic l e . Ile say s in
5 the article He says he was so angry about Tom's death
6 that he lashed out at e ve r yone . I think that appears in
7 the article , the exac t words: "I b egan to blame anyone
8 that was h andy for his demise . " Those were his words .
9 What I a m s aying is , as we l l as the ma lice ,
10 I am say ing he wa s very loyal to Forcade , whether he wa s
misdirected or no t. He was l oya l to Forca de a nd dislike d

11
12
me because I was giving him my prices in New York on smoke
13 and he was mak ing a living and then I stopped doing that .
14
For those two r e asons , for the reaso n he fe lt
I cut him off from his supp l y of materia l was one, and the
15
second one was a sense of loyalty t o Forcade . I fee l he
16
c ame out in print and stated this a nd other people were
17
whispering behind doors that I was unlucky t o be the guy .
18
He to ok a sho t at me because he wa s malicious about it.
19
He was going t o grandstand . In prison parlance, tha t is
20
cal l e d prison grandstanding . You had y our day , b a by, now
.e 21
it ' s mine .
22
Q With respec t to the maga zine yo u proposed t o
23
publ i s h, you indicated you sought to employ a woma n who
24
declined to work for you as a result of this artic le?
25

15 PARK ROW. N.Y. 10038 PH O NES' 3 49 - 3108-9
1 F.de r 126
2 A That 's correc t .
3 Q Were there a n y other persons , to your know l edge ,
4 that d ec li ned to work fo r you o n t his pro j ec t as a resu lt
~ 5 of tJ1e publication of t his artic l e ?
6 A Yes .
7 Q Wou ld yo u te ll us who they were ?
8 A Paul Kra s ner , Sally Ma r , a lthough Sally, I con-
9 vinced h e r t h at was n ot the case . There have been othe r
people , yes .
10
MR . KAHN : Tha t is a ll I have .

11
MR . MICHAELS : I will be brie f o n re -
12
d irect .
13
EXAMINATION BY MR. MICHAELS:

14
Q You have seen governmenta l ag ency reports a t

15
times, have you not?
16
A I hav e.
17
Q Inv estigati ve reports , tha t sort of thing ?
18
A I h ave .
19
Q Yo u are aware the informant is ofte n us e d as
20
a n informa nt who g i ves specific i nfor mation even though
21
they are not trading a cage fo r another person's incarcera-
22
t ion?
23
A Yes , they have paid i n forma nts that d o it fo r
24
oth e r reasons . There ' s a lways some game for the informant .
25
BLITZ R EPORT I NG CO.

15 PARK R OW , N.Y. 1 003 8 PH O NE S: 349 -3108- 9
1 Eder 127
2 It is e i ther reve n ge , mo netary g ain or tr a d ing a ca g e with
3 another hwnan being. It is one of those three t h ings.
4 Q In f act , did n't you wan t revenge ag ainst To m
S Fo rc ade he cause you bel ieved he stole mon e y and mari j uana
6 f rom you ?
7 A Let's dea l with that . At t he time the people
8 within the governme n t, who want e d me t o testify ag ains t
9 Forc a de
10
Q Who were they , in addit ion to Mr. Newgarte n?
11
A Who eve r Mr. Newgarten works wi th down ther e.
12 With regard to tha t, that took place many, many months ,
13 possibly a year before I even knew Forcade h a d b e a t me
14 out of 5 0 pounds . So at the time tha t took p l ac e , no.
Q By 1977 y ou knew about the the f t of y our

15
marijua na?
16
A I believe i t wa s in April. I a m pret ty sure
17
it wa s in Apr il. Either '76 or '77 tha t I f ound out a bout
18
it.
19
Q During s omet i me , during 1 97 7, in fact , yo u /
20
l ea rned abo ut i t a nd didn't you want revenge agains t Tom
21
.•
Forcade?
22
A I rece i ved al l t h e revenge I needed. I took
23
my fifty p ounds back , with i nteres t .
24
Q Fr om where ?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK R O W, N .Y . 1 003 6 PH ONE S: 341 9 -.3106-9
1 Eder 128
2 A From a trans action Forca de and I we re inv ol ved
3 in.
4 Q What location?
5 A Florida.
6 Q With his permission?
7 A He didn ' t have a choice. I said , you know,
8 " Man, I'm taking this . What do you want to do?" He didn' t
9 wa nt to do n othing. He knew. There was a man in the room.
10 He said, "Tom, you beat him for his money ." I took fifty
11 a nd fifty more to make up for the interest and t ook one
12 hundred pounds from him in fro nt of his face. I told him
l3 I wa s taking this . It was that simple.
14 Q The two of you were alone at the time?
15
A Me a nd Tom.
Q Who else was pres e nt?

16
A I wouldn't give you that info r mation .
17
Q Was a ny weap on in t he room?

18
A Tom had a .45 in his belt .
19
Q Any o ·th e rs ?
20
A Not to my knowle dge .

21
Q Did you hav e a ny weapons ?
22
A I don't carry a gun .
23
Q Did you have any weap on ?
24
A No, I d on ' t carry a gun .
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PARK R OW . N.Y. 1 0 038 PH O NES : 3°1 9-3108-9
1 Ede r 1 29
2 Q How wa s it that he h a d a g un and you had no
3 weapon a t a ll a nd that y ou we re a ble to simply say to
4 him , 11
I am t ak ing it, 11 and walk out with something va lue d,
5 I t hink yo u said , abo ut $20,000 ?
6 A That ' s wha t it would be v al ue d out, twenty
7 t hou sand.
8 Q Wha t was it, force of personality , h ypnotic s?
9 A Ne ithe r . You are facetious .
10 Q Yes , I apo logi ze .
A What h appe ns in t his busines s is we know the

11
difference between ri g ht and wrong . I wa s in a positio n to
12
13
confront th is man wi t h r egard t o his having cheate d me o n
a n earlier run. I was working at the time of being cheated.

14
I wa s working fo r Torn Forcade . I was not his par t ner. I
15
wa s still working for him and he was supposed t o h ave paid
16
me $50 , 000 or 2 00 , 000 pounds of marijuana . Instead of
17
paying me 1 5 0,000 pounds of mar ij uana , la ter , just prior
18
to thi s busi nes s arrangement going down where I wa s Tom 's
19
partner at t his t i me , just prior to it going down, I go t
20
t he info rmation aho ut his h aving b e at me for the fifty
21
pounds , s o I wen t t o other people in the g a ng and as ked
22
did this ~ea ll y take place . I go t the informatio n that it
23
had . I co nfronted Tom with the informa tion tha t he had
24
bea t me for the fifty . He agreed he h a d beat me for the
25

1S PARK R OW, N."f. 10036 PHONES: 349-3 1 0 6-9
1 Eder 1 30
2 fifty. I t o ld him, " I' JT1 t.:1king the fifty and I' rn tak ing
3 anoth e r f i fty ," b e c ause he was a fake . He was carry ing a
4 gun but he h a d no choice because the othe r g uy was in t he
5 room. He said, "Ma n, yo u CJOt no choice . You bus ted him ."
6 He c arr i ed a gun. Tom Forcade a l s o p ull e d a gun o n me
7 during the same ope ration. He pulle d a gun .
8 Q There wa s a period of t i me t h at you were a n gry
9 with Forcade and though t about revenge but had not reso l ve d
10 the problem , was there not ?
11 A No, because I wa s -- couldn ' t have b e e n more
12 than a day- and- a - half, two days from t he time I found ou t
13 about it to the time I took my material back .
14 Q Within the l ast year , have you t esti fie d in a ny
15 c ourt of l aw wher e the jury or judge accepted you r word ?
16 A I h ave not testifie d in a court o f l a w i n a ny
17 case , other t h a n my cas e , t o the bes t of my knowledge . I
18 canno t ever rememb e r ever be ing ca l led . Maybe I was once ,
19 in Califo r nia . I have never testified aga i ns t anyone in
20
any case anywhere in the world a t any t i me .
Q No judge- or jury wh i c h ever receive d your ~or d

21
in court?
22
A There i s no judg e or a ny jury -- I d o n ' t k now
23
that . There are judges and juries who have accepted my
24
wor d in cour t, when I defended myself. Let me try the
25
B LITZ RE PO R TING co_

15 PARK ROW. N.Y. 1 003 8 PHONES' 349-3108-9
1 Ede r 131
2 sta t ement aga in. At no t ime in my 48 y ears , i n my
3 exis t e nce , have I ev e r tes tifi e d a ga inst any pe rson i n
4 a ny c r imina l p ro cedure ; is that clear? Th a t i s p r e tty
5 b r oad . That is 48 y ea rs of i t . Doe s that a nswer yo ur
6 q ues tio n? I h a ve t e stifi e d in my own case s.
7 Q How ma ny time s was y our word accepte d in yo ur
8 o wn cas e s?
9 MR. I<A HN : I obj e ct to that. One n e ve r
10 knows -- How d oes o ne know the b as is of how i t is
11 accepted at the trial?
12 Q In t ho s e cas e s you t es tifie d , th e c ase s in
13 v-1h i c h the jury c onvicte d you of c r ime s
14 MR . KA HN : I o b j ec t to t h a t. You do n ' t
15 k n ow if oth e r tes timony or evidence wa s in t h e cas e
16 and you don ' t know the jur y ' s basis f or wh a t t he
17 de cisio n wa s.
18 Q Ha ve yo u testifie d in yo u r o wn beha lf ?
19 A In whi c h the jury b e lieved me?
20 Q Whi c h i n f ac t re s ul ted in your be ing c o nv i cte d
e 21
of a crime .
A Both . I h a ve n e v e r tes ti f i e d i n c a ses d e a l ing

22
with o ther peop le ; tha t i s No . 1 . Le t's get tha t s t r a i g ht
23
a ga in, f rom t he jump.
24
Q I u n d e r stand your pos itio n .
25
15 PARK R O W. N .Y . 1003 6 P H O N E S' 3'19-310 6 · 9
1 Ede r 1 32
2 A Wh e n I h a ve t estifie d i n my own cases , I h a.ve
3 won some an d l os t some .
4 Q Th a nk you .
5 A When I have charges agri ins t me and t he j ury
6 comes in and acq uits o n e ight a nd co n victs o n two , I assume
7 t he jury mus t h a v e believe d me on the e i g ht .
8 Q As a fin a l q u es tion, is i t yo ur b eli e f that t he
9 stat ements you h ave made to day wo uld be d eemed d ero gatory
10 by y our fr i e nds , associ ate s and bus i ness compani o ns?.
A Between the time t hat t h e in f o rmati o n a s t o

11
my worki ng wi t h t he g o vernme nt became p ubl ic and today?
12
13 Q You were r e f erring to t he f i r st time it wa s
14 ma de public i n HI GH TI ME S MAGAZINE in 1 9 77?
A Pr ior t o a ny p ub li c a t i o n, when I said "made

15
pub lic ," I meant by a pa r t of whe r e i t was known , wh ere this
16
information
17
Q Yo u are speak i n g abo ut 19 77, n ot the art i c le?
18
A I ' m s peaking wi t h a year - a nd-a - h a lf ago . From
19
tha t time o n, I ha d t o expend a tremendo us amou nt o f energy
20
wi t h a l o t of people in te lling t h e m wh a t actu a lly took
21
p l ace . Th ere we r e tho se peop l e tha t be lieved t h a t I was
22
te lling them the t ruth and con t i n u e d the r efo re to d o
23
bus i ness wi t h me .
24
Q Out l a w business ?
25
BLITZ REPORTING CO.

15 PA RK ROW. N.Y. 1003 0 PHO N ES: 349-3106 -9
1 Eder 1 33
2 A Outlaw bu si ne ss a nd l eg i t i ma t e inl a w bus ines s.
3 n n d they continued t o do busine ss with me follo wi n g this .
4 An d t h e re were some p eople who felt th e y did n ' t wa nt to do
5 bus ine ss with me after that.
6 However , up until the p oint of A. J . We herrnan's
7 a rticle a pp e a r ing in this Vill age Voice , I had nothing to
8 put my t ee th into . A. J . Webe rman has made a statement .
9 He has said I am a governme nt informant who t es tifi e d in
10 1977 befo r e a Brooklyn g r and jury . That did not tak e plac e.
Ok a y? All I an1 saying is, if this took pla ce, l e t me be

11
12 a rat in public . Let him come into court a nd state i t
13 took pla ce.
14 Q Mr . Ed e r, in the various ti me s you h ave s poke n
with repo r t e rs a n d journali s ts or writ e rs, wh ere yo u k n e w

15
you had the opportunity to address the public a bout your
16
caree r in history , did y o u ever t ake the o ppo rtunity to
17
d e ny the all e g a tion made by HI GH TI MES MAGAZ I NE a nd t.he
18
a t t or ney, Michael Kennedy , in 1977 t h a t you were a D<1J·c otic
19
info rma nt?
20
A I have not b e en intervi e wed by a ny p ub lication

21
s ince t h a t took pla ce. Doe s that an swe r y our que stion?
22
Q Have you done a nything t o s eek t he opportunity
23
to d e ny t he a lle g ation made a t tha t ti me by tho s e parti e s?
. 24
A No , b eca use I d i d n ' t know wh a t t he recou rse s
25
B LI TZ REPORTING CO .
15 P A RK RO W. N.Y. 100 3 0 P HO N ES: 3-19-310 0 - 9
1 Eder 134
2 were o f fere d to me a t the time.
3 At t he t i me I wa s too punchy , is the r i g ht
4 word , h avin g this thing h appe n to me , t o ta ke effective
5 a n effe ctive counter attack . At t his t ime I h ave a n
6 atto r ney who is will ing to make a n effective counterattac k
7 a nd fo r the record , unti l s uch a time , unti l I came in this
8 o ff ice , I hadn ' t thought abo ut suing HIGH TIMES and Michae l
9 Kennedy , but I a m now .
Does t h a t answer y our ques ti o n ?

10
Q Is i t therefore true , in fact , you neve r denied
11
tha t a llega tion or sou g ht any o pportun ity to deny it?
12
A I mos t certa in ly did d eny th is allega tio n.
13
14 Q To whom?
A To everyb ody I c ame across , t ncluding Tom

15
F orcade , and a t one time t h ere was a situation whe r e Forcade
16
~·Hl n te d t o mee t with me with regard to this , a nd ·th l~ re is a
17
person i n New Yo r k City pos sibly who mi g ht be ab l e t o
18
t es t i fy to th at . Aga in , I canno t give th is per s on ' s name
19
unti l I h ave spoken to him.
20
- 21
22
23
tions .
MR . MICHAELS :
MR . KAHN :
I h ave no further q u es -
I h ave n o further que stions .

(T ime noted : _6 : 3 0 p.m .)
24
Subscribe d and sworn to before me
25
this day of 1979.
BLITZ REPORTING CO.
15 PARK R OW, N .Y. I 003 8 PHO N ES' 349-3 106- 9
1 135
3 C E R T I F I C A T E
4
STATE OF NEW YORK )
5 SS
COUNTY OF NEW YORI< )
6
7
I, SHA RYN L . BAMBER , a Shorthand Rep o r t e r
8
an d Notary Public within and for the State of
9
Ne w York, do hereby certify:
10
That ·cHIC EDER , t he wi t n es s \·1hose
11
ck~ p os .i. tion is herein.be fo r e s8 t forth , ·was •-1.ul •..r
12
sworn by me a nd t hat such d e po s iti n ~ is R tr ue
13
r eco r d of the t es timony give n by s uc h '-'-· L-n ~: ·.:: s .
14
I f urther ce r tify that 1 <:rn rio t r n l n. t .-; rl
15
to any of the pa r ties to this a ction by b J O( •d
16
~r marriag e , and that I a m in no way 5nt er~s~a d
17 in th e o ut c o me of this matter .
18
IN HlTN P~S&;HEnEOF \--2: h a ve reunto s et
19
my h a nd t.h is _ _t_._ _d a y of_J_ f~_1\"°=.::-' 1979 .
20
21
22
23
24
25
15 P A RK R O W. N .Y. 1 0 038 PHONES : 3 4 9- 3 1 0 8 - 9

Chic Eder Deposition

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Chic Eder Deposition

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SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NE\'1 YOP.

COUNTY OF NEW YORK

ALAN J. NEBERMAN a/k/a A. J.

---------------- ---- --- --------- - - -----x

Deposition of plaintiff CHIC EDER , taken

by def e nd q nt ALAN J. WEI3ERl1AN , p ursu a nt to notice

dated Feb r uary 2, 1979, at the offices of David

S. Michae ls, Esq ., 342 Madison Avenue, New Yo rk,

N. Y. 10017, on February 16, 1 9 79, at 2:00 p .m.,

before Shary n L. Bamber, a Shorthand Reporter

and No far y Public of the State of New Yo rk.

BLITZ REPORTING CO.

PHONES: 349-3 1 08-9

3 Messrs. ROSENSTEIN & KAHN,

be a ba r or waiver to make s uch mo tion at, and is

reserved for , the trial of this action.

2 being examined, before a Notary Public other than

3 the Notary Public before whom this deposition was

4 begun, but t,'1e failure to do so, or to return the

be deemed waiver of the rights provided by Rule

7 3116, CPLR, and shall be controlled thereby.

8 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that

9 the filing and certification of the original of

this deposition are waived.

MR. KAHN: Before we begin the deposition

Mr. Eder, dated February 2, which I received Febru-

ary 5th, and that subsequently the attorneys for the

above-named defendants agreed they would be present

BLITZ REPORTING CO.

2 same time and explicitly, so that Mr. Eder, who is

3 here from out of town, would not have to be unduly

morning at 10:30 I received a telephone call from

7 Mr. Slade Metcalf, who is counsel to the above-

8 named defendants who for the first time advised me

9 that because of the presence of office work in his

10 office he did not choose to attend this deposition.

12 flown into New York especially for this deposition,

13 from out of town and in fact from overseas, and that

14 this would work an extreme hardship on Mr. Eder. I

15 further pointed out that since this was Mr. Metcalf's

notice of deposition, I expected him to be here and

I served a letter to that effect on Mr.

BLITZ REPORTING CO.

3 THE WITNl.:SS: Showed I arrived here

4 from out of the count ry last nir,ht at 7:20.

Aeain, explicitly for the purpose

of attending this deposition.

8 Having said that, we are prepared to

9 go forth with Mr . Ede~ ' s deposit i on n ot i ced by l'~r .

10 Michaels, on behalf of hi s c lie nt, A. J . Weberman .

C H I C E D E R, plaintiff, called as a witn es s

12 by the defendant Alan J. Weberman, be ing first

13 duly swo rn by the Notary Public ( Sharyn L . Bamber ),

Q Would you s tate your full l egal name , please?

2 MR. MICHAELS: Asking his name?

THE WITNESS: You are asking the name

directing him to answer that, you can.

9 Q What is your legal name?

(Discussion off the record.)

now telling us is your name?

8 A I do, but I 'vant to add to that that I have

never appeared before any cotirt, body or governmental

Q How many times?

governmental agency under any other name?