Criticism of Ayurveda

22/04/2019 This is what a liver transplant surgeon told me recently...
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This is what a liver transplant surgeon told me

recently...
Posted by Dr. Krishna Kumari Challa on December 31, 2016 at 7:12am in Science Simplified!
Back to Science Simplified! Discussions
Several of my friends think Ayurvedic and Homeopathic medicines have no side effects. They are wrong in their
reasoning. Because...
"The fact is that Ayurvedic medicines cause thousands of cases of drug induced liver injuries every year in India
(this might be an under-estimate). Last month we watched a 27 year old lady die of acute liver failure after taking
an ayurvedic medicine for weight loss. She died within 24 hours of admission to hospital (she had been sick for a
week but only reached us when she was nearly dead). There was no time to do a liver transplant. Herbal
supplements are known to cause veno-occlusive disease. The small veins of the liver get scarred and the liver gets
congested because blood cannot drain out of it properly. Eventually liver failure occurs. Unfortunately families of
such patients are often unwilling to talk about it. Partly denial to avoid guilt I suppose. I had given the names and
phone numbers of several victims of AYUSH to a reporter. Nothing happened. I wrote an article (invited) about
AYUSH for the news portal scroll.in. They took an editorial decision not to publish. It seems all the newspapers
know that it may be unhealthy to write anything but glowing testimonials about AYUSH to please some people."
When a liver transplant surgeon told me this I told him I will publish this.
The doctor also gave me these references to read and consider:
Herb-Induced Liver Injury in the Berlin Case-Control Surveillance S...
A rare case of acute hepatitis induced by use of Babchi seeds as an Ayurvedic remedy for vitiligo.
https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/this-is-what-a-liver-transplant-surgeon-told-me-recently?commentId=2816864%3AComment%3A… 1/24
22/04/2019 This is what a liver transplant surgeon told me recently... - SCI-ART LAB
Luffa echinata: healer plant or potential killer.
Review article: herbal and dietary supplement hepatotoxicity.
Herbal hepatotoxicity: a tabular compilation of reported cases.
Acute renal failure secondary to ingestion of alternative medicatio...
Acute renal failure secondary to ingestion of ayurvedic medicine containing mercury.
and also told me ...
1. Ayurvedic medicines can cause end organ damage. They can damage the liver, kidneys, bone marrow etc.
Note: the case report stating ‘rare case of acute hepatitis is from Britain. In India this is a common cause of
acute liver injury.’
2. These medicines can be fatal. I have seen fatal drug induced liver injury with Ayurvedic medicines.
Another mechanism of death is by delaying effective treatment (surgery for cancer for instance) while
undergoing futile Ayurvedic treatment.
The same doctor told this story too...
A 42 year old patient from the state of Gujarat developed cirrhosis of the liver due to the excessively easy access
to alcohol there . He had, of course, been taking Liv 52 to ensure that he would not get cirrhosis. However, having
developed decompensated cirrhosis, he did stop drinking and he improved somewhat over the next 3 months.
Although he was feeling better, his liver function tests were still abnormal and due to his elevated bilirubin level,
he was looking distinctly jaundiced. He, therefore, turned to Ayurvedic medicine since his Gastroenterologist was
not telling him anything encouraging about his long term prospects.
The Vaid was much more encouraging and assured him that with the medicines he was going to give him, the
jaundice would soon go away. After a month of the medicine, during which he did not see his Gastroenterologist,
he became confused and drowsy and required an emergency admission to hospital. His liver functions were much
worse which was unexpected since he had stopped drinking. This looked like DILI (Drug Induced Liver Injury)
which is known to occur with Ayurvedic medicines. At this point it was obvious that his liver was not going to
recover and that he needed a liver transplant.
Meanwhile his family were looking for alternatives to a transplant and they came across the website of a clinic
which was offering 'stem-cell therapy' for the treatment of liver disease.
He was moved to the clinic. Interestingly, in India, solid organ transplantation requires a rigorous process of
inspection and authorization and periodic renewal of permission. On the other hand, bone marrow transplantation
and so-called stem-cell therapies are completely unregulated.
He underwent the stem-cell therapy and became even worse. By the time he came to us for a liver transplant, he
was too sick with multi-organ failure and sepsis. He died. Without having a chance of being transplanted.
There are several other reports that say some of these medicines are harmful ( 1,2,3).
Clinical trials are not mandatory for Ayurvedic drugs in several parts of India ( 9 ).
We ourselves had very bad experience with some of these medicines. My mother used to take several ayurvedic
medicines prescribed by well qualified ayurvedic doctors for her knee problems. Some 15 years back she
developed severe diabetes with her blood sugar levels going up to 500 - 600 mg/dL. The main stream doctors
when consulted asked us about the medicines she was taking. When told about the ayurvedic medicines, they
asked us to immediately stop using them. They told us some of them contain steroids that enhance the diabetic
conditions several fold if people are vulnerable and genetically predisposed to them.
My sister consulted doctors who practice Homeopathy for her sciatic problem. Even after taking the medicines for
six months, there wasn't any improvement in her condition. Only exercises and prescribed medicines from
mainstream doctors could help her in the end to better her condition.
Several people ask me why there are colleges that still teach and train students in these alternate medical
practices if they are not reliable. Yes, why? I tell them not all old medical systems are bad. Some of them are good
too. But each one of the claims in these systems has to be tested scientifically and only when evidence clarifies
that they are good, we can adopt and use them.
Ayurveda is considered as protoscience or a primitive one. It has to be developed into a full fledged one to make it
fully authentic.
Bitter truth: Hundreds of 'doctors' dealing with these medicines will go jobless if thorough scientific research is
conducted on these medicines and truth is brought before the world and they agitate. Several of the colleges and
clinics that deal with these medical practices will have to be closed down creating chaos. So people who can take
decisions think it is better to close their eyes. And make people suffer in the process!
But now some of the scientists are analyzing these medicines. Soon we can hear the verdict on several of these
medicines based on 'ancient wisdom'.
And this is what a Consultant Vascular Interventional Radiologist at The Vein Center told us...
This story is about a stupid decision by a homeopath 10 years ago to treat a Varicose Ulcer using sugar coated
pills and convincing the patient that things are getting better.
I had a patient, a well read lady, PhD in Literature with a huge Venous Ulcer on her leg that kept getting bigger
inspite of the Homeopathic “medicines” that she was taking.
This is what she was living with
Pics source: Dr. Saurabh Joshi, Consultant Vascular Interventional Radiologist at The Vein Center (2014-present)
After she came to us when Homeopathy treatment failed, we followed our protocol, did a Venous Doppler right
there in the OPD, found out that this is a Venous Ulcer.
She underwent the Endovenous Laser Ablation procedure followed by Skin grafting.
3 months later, her leg was like this:
Pics source: Dr. Saurabh Joshi, Consultant Vascular Interventional Radiologist at The Vein Center (2014-present)
She suffered for 10 years from a condition that could easily have been treated much earlier and with relative ease
with modern medicines but choose to go Homeopathic way and faced the consequences.
Such misery could easily have been prevented had she received proper guidance 10 years ago.
According to these doctors... the original constituents of homoeopathic medicines are diluted so many times that
the end product is unlikely to have even a single molecule of the compound. They claim that the water molecules
retain a memory of the compound which was dissolved in it but this is not compatible with what we know of
Physics or Chemistry. They then dry the water as well and give you what is basically just tiny pills made of sugar.
Oh, my!
I myself have read several research papers that say Homeopathy just has a placebo effect and nothing else.
Some Governments themselves say this and gave guidelines and analysis of various research
reports(4,5,6). Homeopathy has long been considered a pseudoscience, and several studies have failed to detect
any effect of homeopathic treatments.
Other cases of alternative medical practitioners harming patients...
Did chiropractic manipulation of her neck cause Katie May’s stroke?
Chiropractic Manipulation and Stroke: A Population-Based Case-Contr...
Steve Jobs 'regretted trying to beat cancer with alternative medici...
The site What's The Harm? has hundreds of stories of harm caused by alternative medical practices. There are
over 400 stories under homeopathic medicine alone: What's the harm in homeopathy?
The site Quackwatch is a fairly comprehensive reference locus for information about quacks.
A review of FDA records obtained by STAT under the Freedom of Information Act paint a far grimmer picture:
Babies who were given Hyland’s teething products turned blue and died. Babies had repeated seizures. Babies
became delirious. Babies were airlifted to the hospital, where emergency room staff tried to figure out what had
caused their legs and arms to start twitching.
Over a 10-year period, from 2006 to 2016, the FDA collected reports of “adverse events” in more than 370
children who had used Hyland’s homeopathic teething tablets or gel, a similar product that is applied directly to a
baby’s gums. Agency records show eight cases in which babies were reported to have died after taking Hyland’s
products, though the FDA says the question of whether those products caused the deaths is still under review (7).
I am getting these stories from several doctors...here are a few...
When I was a final year medical student at one of the big Government Medical Colleges in Southern India , I
came across the following case during our Pediatrics rotation.
The patient was a 6 year old boy who was admitted following complaints of extreme fatigue , failure to thrive ,
poor oral intake and breathlessness both at rest and on exertion for 6 months.
According to his mother, everything was fine till 1.5 years ago when he developed a high grade fever with a sore
throat. The parents decided to treat the seemingly minor throat infection with OTC medication and also with
"home remedies" .
A few weeks later the child started to develop joint pains in the elbows knees and shoulders.
The parents, mind you , we're both graduates, well educated with a solid upper middle class background.
Instead of referring the child to a pediatrician , they took the advice of their friends and relatives who
recommended that allopathic medicine is useless in these cases and referred them to one of southern Indians
largest Ayurvedic facilities ; The Kottakal Ayurvedic centre. (Ayurveda is Indian traditional medicine)
There the child was subjected to all manner of hot oil massages to alleviate his joint pains.
All this afforded minor relief for the joint pains. (Some practitioners are known to surreptiously administer
allopathic drugs by crushing the tablets with a mortar and pestle and offering the powder as traditional medicine.)
For a few months , the child remained asymptomatic.
He then began to develop frequent chest infections , breathlessness on exertion then later on at rest. This was
followed by progressive lethargy which manifested later as refusal to eat food or goto school
At this stage the parents decided to seek specialist attention. So they approached the chief of Pediatrics of my
teaching hospital , a tough no nonsense woman who didn't suffer fools gladly.
I still remember the torrent of abuse that our chief rained down on those hapless parents for acting so foolishly
and endangering their son. It's pretty common in India that doctors can get away with severely chiding patients
and their attendants.
Those of you with the benefit of a medical education may have already guessed what had happened.
The child's initial sore throat and fever and subsequent joint pains were manifestations of Acute Rheumatic
Fever.
Which was shockingly left untreated..
The child subsequently developed rheumatic carditis. He had a severe mitral and aortic regurgitation.
.His heart murmur was so severe we could feel it through his little chest. At presentation he was listless, didn't
react much to the huge crowd of medical students who had thronged the ward to examine the 'rare case'.
Chief said the boy didn't have much in the way of a prognosis. There was talk of surgery etc but the estimated
costs were much more than the parents could afford.
The standard treatment for rheumatic fever is benzathine penicillin which is available for a few rupees. So you
can gauge the magnitude of the crime committed by the parents who neglected to take the child for specialist
referral at the outset, all in the name of alternative medicine.
I heard from my juniors later that the child died in the pediatric intensive care unit.
Another one...
While on a paediatrics duty, I saw a case of 8 yr old child who presented with fever, neck and jaw muscle
paraesis, and problem in swallowing.
Parents gave a detailed account of how it had happened after eating fish, and initially thought that something had
stuck in his throat. Then they thought about a possible food poisoning.
Until the child developed weakness in both upper limbs.
Differentials of meningitis and encephalitis were considered, but since the coagulation profile was pathetic, a
confirmatory lumbar puncture couldn't be done and symptomatic management with intravenous antibiotics was
started.
I examined him again and again, and suddenly realised that since he had a dilated pupil and ptosis, and then
developed pharyngeal weakness which progressed to the limbs, it could be the progressive descending paralysis
seen in a snake bite. I examined the kid but couldn't find a bite mark.
I ran to the parents. But parents had left the kid in the ward to go to a temple and pray. I finally found a relative
and asked if there was a snake anywhere in the picture. The aunt was like "well yes the child saw a snake in the
kitchen and was bitten but obviously we had taken him to the ojha (a kind of witchdoctor) and the jhad-phuk
(chanting and spell casting) was done, so he's safe and we didn't think it was significant enough to tell you."
Now, anti snake venom works only when given in the first 24 hrs after snake bite. I called my seniors and they
started the treatment but it was too late. The child died that very day.
So be cautious while using alternate medicines and going to 'doctors' who deal with alternate medical practices.
After reading this article of mine several people started asking me several Qs. I am posting one such Q and my
reply here:
Q: After reading your article "This is what a liver transplant surgeon told me", I really got scared. Because we use
ayurvedic medicines in our home. Are they really that bad? Is any research going on them to find out the truth?
Krishna: I will not say all of the ayurvedic medicines are bad. Some might have good qualities too. Until you test
them scientifically you will never know about their qualities - good or bad.
Yes, some people in the West have tested these medicines and found some bad qualities like my article states. But
some Indian scientists and doctors too are studying the qualities of these medicines.
I have been given this list:
1). Padma Vibushan and Chitra Cardiac valve inventor and World renowned cardiologist Dr.
M.S.Valiathan [MBBS, MS, FRCS (England), FRCS (Edin.),FRCPS(C), FRCP( Lon), D.Sc (h.c)] who is into
serious research in Ayurveda for the past 12 years.
2). Padma Bhushan Dr. B M Hegde [M.B.B.S from Stanley Medical College(Madras), a M.D. from King
George Medical College (Lucknow), FRCP from Royal College of Physicians, London, Glasgow, Edinburgh, and
Dublin. He also has a FACC and FAMS. He also received training in cardiology from Harvard Medical
School under Bernard Lown, a Nobel Laureate.,} world renowned Cardiologist and researcher of Ayurveda -
member editorial board of J-AIM (Ayurveda Journal), Ex-Vice Chancellor, Manipal Academy of Higher
Education.
3). Dr. Bhushan Patavardhan - Director - Interdisciplinary School of Health Sciences, Pune University and
the Chief editor of the Journal of Ayurveda and Integrated medicine (J-AIM) - published by Elsevier - link
- You may look at the prestigious and distinguished Doctors and Medical science researchers (who review
Ayurveda articles and research papers /reports) in the Editorial board of Journal of Ayurveda and Integrative
Medicine Editorial Board
4). Dr. G Gangadharan (Ayurvedacharya, FAIP(USA), PhD, MoM (McGill, Canada), Director, Ramaiah
Indic SpecialityAyurveda - See more at: Dr.G G Gangadharan at 3rd International Congress on Ayurveda |
Rama...- who as part of 22 member Sr. research team proved and published a research on Ayurvedic Prakriti
based on Genome-wide Analysis (paper here: Genome-wide analysis correlates Ayurveda Prakriti)
5). Dr. Thelma B.K, who a Human Geneticist and HoD - Dept. of Genetics at University of Delhi and
published papers on Ayurgenomics (one paper here Potential of Ayurgenomics Approach in Complex Trait
Research: Leads...)
6). NCBI /PubMed (of US Govt) which contains peer reviewed 6000+ research papers and clinical trial reports
on Ayurveda system /herbs /formulations (In addition to over 190,000 papers on Complimentary and Alternative
medicine)… some links on scientific validations of Ayurvedic formulations and Herbs here
(a). Guduchi - Inhibition of proinflammatory pathways by bioactive fraction of Tin...,
(b). Ashwagandha - Comprehensive assessment of the genes involved in withanolide biosy....,
(c). Brahmi - Bacopa monnieri extract increases rat coronary flow and protects ag..., (d) Various Ayurvedic
formulations for Innate anti-oxidant activity (oxidative stress is a main cause of Cancer): Innate antioxidant
activity of some traditional formulations., (e). Traditional Ayurvedic Medicines: Pathway to develop anti-
cancer drugs: Traditional Ayurvedic medicines: Pathway to develop anti-cancer drugs
7). Nobel Laureate Dr. Tu You You, who won Nobel prize in 2015 for TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) - who
is now an inspirations to all Alternative medicine researchers - I’m sure the day is not far away where Ayurveda
finds total cure for a stain of Cancer or any other life threatening disease without the side effects & costs of the so
called modern medicine system and associated widespread international recognition.
8). ICMR-NIMS-Clinical Trials Registry has over 400 clinical trials reports of various Ayurvedic
formulations and Drugs - link: Search Result,Clinical Trials Registry - This is for those who say there is no
scientific basis for Ayurveda !.
9). Clinical trials in Ayurvedic Drugs /Reverse Pharmacology method: This is about why we shouldn’t be
harping only on Clinical trials for Ayurveda https://www.researchgate.net/pub...
10). NIMHANS (National Institute of Mental Health and Neurosciences) Ayurvedic center: Advanced
Centre for Ayurveda
11). Manipal University A multi-centric project supported by the AYUSH Foundation and DST, Govt. of India,
this program deals with understanding the underlying scientific principles of Ayurveda, an Indian traditional
medicine. Work carried out in our labs is focused on deciphering possible molecular (genetic and
epigenetic), metabolic and biochemical clues to the various Prakriti classifications of Ayurveda, as well as
its treatment modalities for quality ageing, improving mental abilities etc. Science initiatives in Ayurveda
12). What Doctors Don't Get to Study in Medical School - by Dr. B. M. Hegde, This is not a textbook as the
author says but, in my opinion, this is a "Holy Text" of medicine and is a must read for everyone who deals
with sickness. Richard Smith, MD, FRCP Former Editor, British Medical Journal, London. Here, laid out
clearly and concisely, are all the well-established potholes and pitfalls in current medical thinking and practice. It
is a thought provoking challenge to modern medical practice and research. Dr Hegde confronts the issue, and
proposes an alternative humanistic attitude to education and treatment. Drawing on a huge range of resources
from Sanskrit texts, Green and European philosophers, ancient and modern healers, to the most up-to-date
Western research and publications. He has written a book that is both scholarly yet easy to read, and which will
appeal to everyone involved in medicine whether students, practitioners or patients
This book provides part of the important and formative reading a medical student must do outside the prescribed
requirements for a degree, and is also equally valuable to qualified practitioners and medical professionals. Here,
laid out clearly and concisely, are all the well-established potholes and pitfalls in current medical thinking and
practice. It is a thought provoking challenge to modern medical practice and research and is intended to
encourage us to consider the way medicine is taught. Modern medical practices are driven by science, technology
and consumerism, with the cost of treatment weighted in favour of the doctor rather than to the benefit of the
patient. What Doctors Don't Get to Study in Medical School
However, several mainstream doctors I spoke to say -
Unless Ayurvedic practitioners and researchers come up with decent basic science research which are publish
worthy with authentic data and then go on to publish in reputed peer reviewed journals like Nature or Lancet- all
of their supposed “research” will be considered low quality. Clinical research is for confirming basic science
research and not the other way round as Ayurvedic practitioners seem to be doing these days in the name of
research.
You can't say for example, “This seems to work so there must be some science to it” and create a weird theory to
fit in the conflicting data. One usually needs the hypothesis first and then your experiments need to confirm the
hypothesis. After one proves the hypothesis do scientists apply the hypothesis in the real world. This is how real
science works.
The modern drugs go through 4 phases of Clinical Trials (8)
Phase 1 is to assess the safety profile of the drug being tested and its side effects. Involves a few healthy
volunteers (<100) and needs several months to complete.
Phase 2 - Efficacy and effectiveness of a drug is done here. This phase also determines the treating dosage
and toxic levels. A placebo may also be used as a control arm. A few hundred healthy volunteers are
required and this may take a few years to complete
Phase 3 is Randomized Controlled Trials (RCTs) where therapeutic dosage is given to a large sample of
people suffering from a specific ailment or disease and comparing with a control arm which use the placebo
in double-blindfashion so that both the patient nor the investigator knows who is getting the tested drug and
who is getting the placebo. This eliminates bias. This typically takes several years to complete. RCTs is the
most robust form of evidence that a drug works. No Ayurvedic or Homeopathic drug has cleared this phase
till date.
Phase 4 is when the drug goes into consumer market. Data is collected regarding long-term effects of the
new drug, over longer durations and on larger number of people than could be achieved via clinical trials.
Many drugs have been banned after reaching the consumer market if the side effects did not make the
benefit-to-cost ratio favourable to the general public. The drugs were withdrawn fully or partially
depending on its usage eg: Rofecoxib or Thalidomide.
At every phase, the investigators and researchers publish several scientific papers and review articles in reputed
peer reviewed journals to support the use of a particular drug in a particular disease /ailment along with the side
effects of the drugs that need to be factored in. Every drug has a lot of this information especially about adverse
effects mentioned on the drug’s packaging. So the process is very transparent for all to know.
If you apply these principles to Ayurveda one can see why this is not really possible without proper basic science
research first. If curcumin (present in Turmeric) is the active ingredient which has anti-cancer properties, you
can't really test a recipe containing 100s of ingredients including turmeric without having a confounding bias in
that study. It is curcumin only which needs to be extracted, studied and tested further.
Low quality/ non-existent basic science research leads to low quality clinical research. Moreover a lot of
“Ayurvedic research” is shrouded in mystery with many of their theses filled with fantastical tales and engaging
anecdotes to cater to the lowest common denominator in intelligence. Basically dumbing down science by
oversimplification so that they can sell the drugs.
Levels of evidence
There are various levels of evidence in medical research depending on the strength of the evidence and the bias in
the data collection and statistics. Level I being the best and Level V being the least
As you can see in the above picture, anecdotal evidence (expert opinion) though useful many times to discover
new drugs- is the poorest form of evidence at level V.
Q: What steps should be taken to improve the quality of Ayurveda research?
Krishna: Scientific research in any field should follow strict scientific method. Otherwise there won’t be any
difference between science and pseudo-science.
Several Western scientific communities complain that …
"We find it difficult to reproduce the results published in papers from Asia most of the time. Most Asian
researchers show a bit of favouritism for things said in their cultures and religion and while doing research they
try to authenticate it using manipulated data and biased reasoning. They don't publish their results in high class
journals and find dubious journals favourable for their work. The peer-reviewers there too are prejudiced and
recommend these papers. I can give an example of research with regard to an ancient treatment called
Acupuncture. The papers published in China and other Eastern countries say it works. But when these were tested
in the West, we failed to get the same results. Papers published in Asia are not reliable.”
Acupuncture Doesn’t Work
Can Acupuncture Treat Depression?
Unlike what Indian Ayurvedic practitioners say, these are the results obtained by ‘other people’ with regard to
Ayurveda:
A rare case of acute hepatitis induced by use of Babchi seeds as an...
Acute renal failure secondary to ingestion of ayurvedic medicine co...
Who do you believe? Lay men get confused.
I would recommend papers published in high quality journals like BMJ, Lancet, Nature and e-life. Forget about
dubious journals. Science becomes science only after several people authenticate it after reproducing the results.
A single person’s testimony is not useful for scientific knowledge, which requires reproducibility.
Ayurvedic researchers should publish their papers in peer-reviewed high quality journals by following standard
scientific methodology and then claim their work is scientific. Until then…they cannot avoid skepticism.
Q: Can multiple cholelithiasis be cured by Ayurvedic medicines?
Krishna: Don’t waste your time with Ayurvedic medicines. They are mostly untested scientifically. My mother
suffered a lot because of these medicines.
At least you know what you are dealing with when you go for mainstream medicines because they are thoroughly
tested in clinical trials. They say a known devil is better than an unknown angel.
People who practice ayurveda or sell these medicines might recommend them but after reading several research
papers that came from genuine labs, and hearing from medical doctors about their side effects, it is difficult for
me to trust them.
Q: Why is it so difficult for ayurvedic superstitious brains to grasp science?
Krishna: All people who use ayurvedic medicines or practice ayuveda are not superstitious! I don’t accept that
generalization.
However, ayurveda is ‘ancient’ or ‘primitive’ science. Most of the medicines are not tested scientifically in the
modern sense. So we don’t know what effects they cause when you use them. Some of them have been proved to
be toxic when taken. Here are a few examples…
https://kkartlab.in/group/some-science/forum/topics/this-is-what-a-liver-transplant-surgeon-told-me-recently?commentId=2816864%3AComment%3… 10/24
Try telling that to ayurvedic doctors or people who promote these medicines or people who are using them and
therefore trust them. All hell brakes loose!
I myself faced their wrath. These people will lose their jobs if truth is found. So they try to suppress it. At the cost
of causing ill health to others!
Having said that, I want to add that it would be better if we test these medicines using modern scientific methods.
And make the really useful ones authentic.
We are not against ayurveda. We are only against dubious ways people follow to get into the main stream
medical field. We are against pseudo-science. We are against people suffering because of the selfishness of some
people. We are against non-scientific practices people resort to to stay in the rat races.
Q: How do you convince people that Ayurveda is pseudo-science?
Krishna: This question is faulty. Ayurveda is not completely ‘pseudo-science’. It is an ancient science, that needs
to be validated. It is anecdotal and still has to stand the tests of modern science. Unless you test using modern
scientific methodology and disprove all of ayurvedic medicine claims, you cannot call it pseudo-science.
Some people are testing ayurvedic medicines but they are publishing their results in - what the western scientists
call - ‘dubious journals’ that are not reliable. This is making people doubt the scientific methodology used in
ayurvedic research. And most of the ayurvedic practitioners are refusing to submit their ‘medicines’ for clinical
trials. This is not correct way to authenticate these medicines.
Unless we test the ayurvedic medicines using modern scientific methodology and publish the results in high
quality journals, people refuse to accept them as ‘genuine’. Still some people use them and suffer as a result like
this…
Q: DD -Based on the above one ...You have discussed only about the medicine part.
What about the basics of Ayurveda the doshas, Vat, Pitta and Kapha as the foundation of causes of all ailments?
Krishna: Modern medicine doesn’t accept these things. However, some people put them under the category
‘allergies’. For example ayurvedic practitioners say some foods increase the ‘heat’ in the body. Your muscles
ache. Your arthritis become worse when you consume them.
Like brinjal, potato, drum stick, papaya. We think some people are allergic to solanaceous foods (brinjal, potato)-
it is because of the chemicals produced by these plants.
Likewise consumption of papaya was also reported to cause adverse reactions including toxicology and allergy in
some people. Some persons are allergic to the flower powder, and fruit and the latex that may also result in
irritation due to papain and chymopapain.
Ayurvedic practitioners use different words - that were coined thousands of years ago based on peoples’
experience. They don’t know teh truth then. They also describe things in an ‘ancient way’. We might find them
strange. Some might not be entirely correct.
But unless you submit the whole field to testing, you cannot neither confirm, nor reject it outright. You cannot call
it pseudo-science. As a person of science, I am open to such extremes.
Q: (DD)- Personally I (not from the field) feel that they need to scrap those concepts altogether. Just go with
modern systems in the area cause and diagnosis and concentrate on validating only the cures and medicines from
Ayurveda and scrap those which fail.
Q: Based on the above one - VC: The answer is pretty simple.
The onus of producing evidence is upon the one who is claiming that ayurveda is science.
Ayurveda is classified as pseudoscience for exact same reason why ufology, quantum mysticism and ID are
classified under pseudoscience
Krishna: Your answer is not right!
Pseudo-science is false. Unless you test ayurvedic medicines and prove to be correct or false, you cannot classify
it either way. That is my point.
If you imagine something (likeUFOs) - which is actually not present in our world, and claim it ‘s presence, you
have to prove it exists. However, if it exists, like the medicines, and your experience with it is anecdotal or
personal - both people who are for or against them can test and verify it or validate it. You cannot shift the
responsibility to the other person.
You discover a new chemical. You claim that chemical has ‘medicinal’ or ‘pesticidal’ properties. That doesn’t
become pseudo-science. Until somebody disproves the claim of ‘medicinal properties’ or ‘pesticidal properties’
or falsifies the claim, it remains in the realm of science- a doubtful one though. It doesn’t become pseudo-science.
Get that right.
In fact in science, researchers are more game to falsifiability - to prove others wrong.
Science welcomes falsifiability. When it is falsified, then only it becomes pseudo-science. Until then you cannot
label it as pseudo-science.
Some researchers are testing ayurvedic medicines. But the methods they are using are not reliable and they are
publishing their work in dubious journals.
So ayurveda is ‘unproven ancient science’. Not pseudo-science. Until you falsify it, you cannot call ayurveda with
that name.
Q: Why does the Indian Government encourage homeopathy by installing colleges if it's a pseudo-science?
Krishna: This is a Q I answered several times before on several occasions. Alternative medicine is a hot potato no
Indian Government wants to touch.
Several of the Homeopathy colleges were established long back when the truth about it didn’t get out of the labs
and research institutes. If they are closed now several people will become jobless and agitate. Practicing
Homeopathy doctors will agitate. Those who believe in it, just because it had a placebo effect on them, will
agitate.
Now who in India have the guts to touch this hot potato?
If the Government still wants to establish more Homeopathy colleges, encourage the old ones, it again shows a
lack of spine to accept truth and facts and go against the tide.
PS: All those who say homeopathy is not pseudo-science, there are hundreds of published papers as evidence
contrary to your beliefs. Go read them first before uttering another word.
Homeopathy ineffective, study confirms
1,800 Studies Later, Scientists Conclude Homeopathy Doesn’t Work
Another Review Finds Homeopathy Worthless
Homeopathy officially doesn't work, according to Russia's top scien...
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/category/homeopathy/
This is what a liver transplant surgeon told me recently...
Q: What do people from Western countries think of Ayurvedic medicines?
Krishna: Read these articles to get a view …
Lead, Mercury, and Arsenic in US- and Indian-Manufactured Ayurvedic...
Ayurvedic Medicine: In Depth
Q: What should have more scope in the coming 5 years, Ayurveda or homeopathy?
Krishna: Homeopathy has already been proven as pseudo-science. It doesn’t work. Here is my evidence…
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org...
Ayurveda is not scientifically tested till now. And whatever tests have been conducted in India till now ‘re being
published in dubious journals and not in good journals making scientists question their genuineness. And some
tests conducted on them show negative results. My evidence …

Lead, Mercury, and Arsenic in US- and Indian-Manufactured Ayurvedic...
Not all ayurveda is bad. If these medicines are tested scientifically using the correct methods, we might find some
useful ones.
Till that happens, be careful because even my mother suffered a lot because of them.
Q: To which special doctor should a homeopathic patient consult in order to switch to allopathy?
Krishna: Homeopathy doesn’t work.
Therefore you need not worry. You can switch to evidence based medicine anytime you want without taking
advice from anyone.
Q: Is ayurvedic medicine scientifically proven?
Krishna: I have read the answers - almost all by ayurvedic practitioners and therefore completely biased towards
them - added here. None of the people gave genuine peer-reviewed scientific paper references. So the information
given here is not reliable.
But as a neutral person of science, I want to add that ‘there is a need to test them’. Because ayurvedic medicines
cause severe side effects and my mother faced them throughout her life for using them. You cannot dismiss
human suffering and life-threatening issues lightly ( because some people said here there is no need to test them).
You cannot compare these medicines with food. Food is vital for survival and our biochemical based system is
programmed to identify and get affiliated with what is necessary for its survival. That is not the case with
medicines. It is we, the humans beings, that should use the right methods and our knowledge to test and use only
the ones that are helpful and not harmful to correct the disrupted system when it is ailing.
Some people in India have ‘tested’ these ayurvedic medicines and published in not so good journals. Western
scientists call them ‘dubious journals’. Why don’t we publish in good standard journals so that these scientists
and medical practitioners from all over the world accept them as genuine research? Why shouldn’t we make our
knowledge too authentic? What is wrong with that?
Some say even western medicines have side effects. Yes, they do! But as they are tested scientifically in the
modern sense, we know what side effects we can face beforehand, weigh the pros and cons and take them only if
the benefits outweigh the harmful effects. Moreover, as we know the harm they cause, we can ‘manage’ them
efficiently by taking remedial steps that counteract the harmful effects. That is the positiveness about western
medicine.
“There is no need to test them scientifically as ayurveda is a 5000 year old science” is not the right argument.
Ancient knowledge is anecdotal and therefore not ‘reliable’. It might work or it might not. The medicines when
taken can cause severe consequences like these …
So let us not get into the negative and biased mode while dealing with ayurveda. Let us accept modern scientific
way of testing, let us submit our ancient knowledge to it and make our information genuine too.
Think about that.
Q:Is there anyone helped by homeopathic medicine along with taking allopathic medicine
Krishna: Homeopathy doesn’t work in the first place … This is scientifically proven. Here is my evidence …
Anecdotal evidence doesn’t count much in science, especially clinical science. You cannot override Placebo
effect, body’s natural healing process, allopathic effect when someone says, homeopathy worked for them.
Emotion-ruled homeopathic doctors and patients who believe in them usually don’t accept scientific evidence and
argue against it like I have seen it here.
But Homeopathy doesn’t work. Period.
Q: Which are some of the well-regarded medicines which actually turned out to be not effective at all?
Krishna: Homeopathic medicines. Here is my evidence:
Q: How do I test Ayurvedic medicine for verifying steroid existence?

Krishna: It is extremely difficult to do that by any single individual. There are several of these and how can any
individual test all of them?
Anabolic steroids are used to build up muscle. Corticosteroids are used to dampen overactive immune responses
and reduce swelling.
The labels on medicines should state that the medicines contain steroids. But most of the time they don’t! If there
is no effective control system, some people use them in alternative medicines and get away with it.
My mother used ayurvedic medicines for her knee problems a few years back. The medicine had some ‘natural
plant extracts’ and the doctor assured us that they are harmless. Then after taking them, my mother developed
severe diabetes with her blood sugar levels going up to 500 - 600 mg/dL. The main stream doctors when
consulted asked us about the medicines she was taking. When told about the ayurvedic medicines, they asked us
to immediately stop using them. They told us some of them contain steroids that enhance the diabetic conditions
several fold if people are vulnerable and genetically predisposed to them.
If you want to use the ayurvedic medicines and want to know what steroids they contain, take them to any
certified lab that test these medicines and get them tested. That is the only way to find out things and protect
yourself.
References:
1. http://www.livescience.com/7559-natural-cures-pack-dangerous-chemic...
2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342643/
3. http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/39703/title/A...
4. http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/39703/title/A...
5. https://consultations.nhmrc.gov.au/public_consultations/homeopathy_...
6. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech...
7. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/hundreds-of-babies-harme...
8. http://www.centerwatch.com/clinical-trials/overview.aspx
9. https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/clinical-trials-not-m...
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Replies to This Discussion
Permalink Reply by Dr. Krishna Kumari Challa on December 31, 2016 at 7:39am
1242
https://www.quora.com/Can-multiple-cholelithiasis-be-cure-by-Ayurve...
https://www.practo.com/consult/dosages-of-liv-52-i-had-jaundice-a-l...
Is Ayurvedic medicine scientifically proven?

Krishna: I have read the answers - almost all by ayurvedic practitioner and therefore completely biased
towards them - added here. None of the people gave genuine peer-reviewed scientific paper references. So
the information given here is not reliable.
But as a neutral person of science, I want to add that ‘there is a need to test them’. Because ayurvedic
medicines cause severe side effects and my mother faced them throughout her life for using them. You
cannot dismiss human suffering and life-threatening issues lightly ( because some people said here there is
no need to test them).
You cannot compare these medicines with food. Food is vital for survival and our biochemical based
system is programmed to identify and get affiliated with what is necessary for its survival. That is not the
case with medicines. It is we, the humans beings, that should use the right methods and our knowledge to
test and use only the ones that are helpful and not harmful to correct the disrupted system when it is ailing.
Some people in India have ‘tested’ these ayurvedic medicines and published in not so good journals.
Western scientists call them ‘dubious journals’. Why don’t we publish in good standard journals so that
these scientists and medical practitioners from all over the world accept them as genuine research? Why
shouldn’t we make our knowledge too authentic? What is wrong with that?
Some say even western medicines have side effects too. Yes, they do! But as they are tested scientifically in
the modern sense, we know what side effects we can face beforehand, weigh the pros and cons and take
them only if the benefits outweigh the harmful effects. Moreover, as we know the harm they cause, we can
‘manage’ them efficiently by taking remedial steps that counteract the harmful effects. That is the
positiveness about western medicine.
“There is no need to test them scientifically as ayurveda is a 5000 year old science” is not the right
argument. Ancient knowledge is anecdotal and therefore not ‘reliable’. It might work or it might not. The
medicines when taken can cause severe consequences like these …
So let us not get into the negative and biased mode while dealing with ayurveda. Let us accept modern
scientific way of testing, let us submit our ancient knowledge to it and make our information genuine too.
Think about that.
--
How do you convince people that Ayurveda is a pseudoscience?

Krishna:
This question is faulty. Ayurveda is not completely ‘pseudo-science’. It is an ancient science, that needs to
be validated. It is anecdotal and still has to stand the tests of modern science. Unless you test using modern
scientific methodology and disprove all of ayurvedic medicine claims, you cannot call it pseudo-science.
Some people are testing ayurvedic medicines but they are publishing their results in - what the western
scientists call - ‘dubious journals’ that are not reliable. This is making people doubt the scientific
methodology used in ayurvedic research. And most of the ayurvedic practitioners are refusing to submit
their ‘medicines’ for clinical trials. This is not correct way to authenticate these medicines.
Unless we test the ayurvedic medicines using modern scientific methodology and publish the results in high
quality journals, people refuse to accept them as ‘genuine’. Still some people use them and suffer as a result
like this…
Q:You have discussed only about the medicine part.

What about the basics of Ayurveda the doshas, Vat, Pitta and Kapha as the foundation of causes of all
ailments?
Krishna:
Modern medicine doesn’t accept these things. However, some people put them under the category
‘allergies’. For example ayurvedic practitioners say some foods increase the ‘heat’ in the body. Your
muscles ache. Your arthritis become worse when you consume them.
Like brinjal, potato, drum stick, papaya. We think some people are allergic to solanaceous foods (brinjal,
potato)- it is because of the chemicals produced by these plants.
Likewise consumption of papaya was also reported to cause adverse reactions including toxicology and
allergy in some people. Some persons are allergic to the flower powder, and fruit and the latex that may
also result in irritation due to papain and chymopapain.
Ayurvedic practitioners use different words - that were coined thousands of years ago based on peoples’
experience. They don’t know teh truth then. They also describe things in an ‘ancient way’. We might find
them strange. Some might not be entirely correct.
But unless you submit the whole field to testing, you cannot neither confirm, nor reject it outright. You
cannot call it pseudo-science. As a person of science, I am open to such extremes.
--
Has there been any scientific medical research conducted on Ayurvedic medicines to test its effectiveness?
Some research work has been done both in the West and in India.
Westerners say some of the medicines are toxic.
Indians who did research on this publish in dubious journals Western scientists find unacceptable.
You will find more details on this topic here: This is what a liver transplant surgeon told me recently...
--
Why does the Indian government encourage homeopathy by installing colleges if it's a pseudoscience?
Krishna: This is a Q I answered several times before on several occasions. Alternative medicine is a hot
potato no Indian Government wants to touch.
Several of the Homeopathy colleges were established long back when the truth about it didn’t get out of the
labs and research institutes. If they are closed now several people will become jobless and agitate.
Practicing Homeopathy doctors will agitate. Those who believe in it, just because it had a placebo effect on
them, will agitate.
Now who in India have the guts to touch this hot potato?
If the Government still wants to establish more Homeopathy colleges, encourage the old ones, it again
shows a lack of spine to accept truth and facts and go against the tide.
PS: All those who say homeopathy is not pseudo-science, there are hundreds of published papers as
evidence contrary to your beliefs. Go read them first before uttering another word.
Homeopathy ineffective, study confirms1,800 Studies Later, Scientists Conclude Homeopathy Doesn’t
WorkAnother Review Finds Homeopathy WorthlessHomeopathy officially doesn't work, according to
Russia's top scien...This is what a liver transplant surgeon told me recently...
IQ: You have provided 4 references for homeopathy and mixed one reference for ayurveda.
The 4 references cited for homeopathy has one back up paper: the nhrc Australia. Did you read the
comment on the validity of the nhrc report? The right method is to refer both and let readers decide.
Read things closer home:
Rajiv Bajaj dived into homeopathy and yoga to weld a modern marketi...
You would agree Mr Bajaj could buy a hospital for his son, along with doctors, if required.
If Homeopathy Is Hogwash, Why Are Millions Still Buying It?
Some case histories of your neighbors.
Thanks for the memory

Some unexplained outcome in reference to scientific medicine.
Can Homeopathic Arsenic Remedy Combat Arsenic Poisoning in Humans E...
Can allopathy handle the situation?
You show ayurveda to be killing people? Did you check outcome with allopathy?
Medical error—the third leading cause of death in the US
Over 250,000 patients killed every year and increasing.
Data and statistics
Europe on different.
5.2 million medical errors are happening in India annually: Dr Gird...
India : 5.2 million deaths and disabilities.
The reason:
How the Overuse of Antibiotics Is Fueling Our Modern Plagues
“Yet recently, just within the past few decades, amid all of these medical advances, something has gone
terribly wrong. In many different ways we appear to be getting sicker. You can see the headlines every day.
We are suffering from a mysterious array of what I call “modern plagues”: obesity, childhood diabetes,
asthma, hay fever, food allergies, esophageal reflux and cancer, celiac disease, Crohn’s disease, ulcerative
colitis, autism, eczema. In all likelihood you or someone in your family or someone you know is afflicted.
Unlike most lethal plagues of the past that struck relatively fast and hard, these are chronic conditions that
diminish and degrade their victims’ quality of life for decades.”
After 80 years of its existence, no doctor has a clue what the RIGHT dose of antibiotic means for the
patient?
Krishna:
Thanks for trying to impress me. Nice try, but you failed miserably!
What you gave as references are anecdotal {opinion based, single experiences or inadequate or preliminary
research work which wasn’t followed with thorough studies( the authors themselves said that!), articles that
took decades back old research work into account -in science only recent work counts}, books which no
genuine scientist accepts as citations. When you are dealing with a scientist provide the right references. We
don’t accept rubbish.
Yes, people still use all sorts of things, because they aren’t allowed to take genuinely-informed decisions.
Several misleading articles and books like you quoted make them confused. That is why we don’t mention
substandard work.
Yes, modern medicine has its loopholes. But at least we know what we are dealing with, the side effects etc.
and therefore can deal with them effectively by managing things and weigh pros and cons and only when
the merits outweigh the drawbacks , we use them.
That is not the case with alternative medicines.
All most all scientists have seen genuine evidence to say Homeopathy is pseudo-science. Period!
--
Q: What do people think about ayurvedic medicines?

Krishna: Most people here in India think they work well for them. And that ayurvedic medicines have no
side effects! But what is the truth?
Ayurveda is ancient science. It is not tested correctly according to modern day science. It is based on trial
and error methods, anecdotal evidence, and some human experience.
But people face dangerous consequences because of them. Here is my evidence…
People are trying to test some of these medicines. But western scientists say that these tests ‘re not reliable
and these ‘re published in dubious journals and not in good high standard ones.
So?! Decide for yourself whether you can trust them or not. Whether you can use them or not. The choice is
yours.
1] Clinical outcomes, histopathological patterns, and chemical analysi...
[2] Doctor in coma since 9 years after tasting his medicine, dies - Tim...
Q: How do homeopathy medicines work?

Krishna:Scientific evidence says they don’t work at all! That is a fact! What happens sometimes and what
people describe as cure is just a placebo effect. Nothing more and nothing less. Here is my evidence:
Q: Does homeopathy cure PCOS/PCOD
Krishna: Homeopathy doesn’t cure anything. Want evidence? Here it is …
Permalink Reply by Dr. Krishna Kumari Challa on April 14, 2019 at 11:53am
Q: Is homeopathy capable of dealing with infections?
Krishna: No! Homeopathy doesn’t work at all. Here is my evidence:
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22/04/2019 This is what a liver transplant surgeon told me recently...

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