From: Barber Allison, CN, OASD-PA

Sent: Thursday. July 07.2005 7 04 PM

To: Ruff, Eric SES,OASD-PA
suqsct: gtmo trip

hi there
want to make surewe are on the same page fornnTlflenTOtvernenton the g m trip.

my expectations are as follows: (pre trip)

1. all of the coordinationand inwitatin orocass
2 paper worn. and country corance documentation
3 bnehg cooramanon wen pnnc p es
4 DacKetsfor m taw analysis
5. agenda
on the tno:
1 host ireanalystsas needed
2 c- -
m e follow ~p for analysts quzstons/bnefingmaienal
3 provde assistanceto you as needed

it is important that era knows exactfy what is expectedof her. iam not in favor of my staff winging it and idon't want others
to think she is responsiblefor things that are outside her realm of influence

please let me know if you have any additional items and iwill brief tare on those too.

i am sure it will be a great trip.

ab

NY TIMES
From:
Sent:
* .
'DT0^Ñà CN.OSD-LA
Thursday, July 07,2005 5.25 PM
To: Ruff, Enc, SES, OASD-PA
Subject: jed babbin

we need to talk when you get down to PA-or call me

Office of the AssistantSecretary ofDefense for Legislative Affairs

the Pentagon

NY TIKES 7389
 Fmm: I^T^^HCIV. OASD-PA
Sent: rr:wa, ..i 07.2005 5 03 PM
To: Ri^ E-ic SES. OASO PA Lawrence. Dallas OASD-PA
Subject; F Y I M ia'v Analyst Visrt lo Gwntanamo

fyi
i'm havinghim send to me on sipr. and hemingwaycan brief that part as well

--OIlginal Message-
From: Waxman, Matthew, OV,OSD-POUCY
Sent: Thursday, July 07,2005 353 PM
To: CIV, OASO-PA
Subject: RE. Military Analyst Visit to Gumtanam

unfortunatelythey're on SlPRnet. Are you on there?

-
Tom Herningwaysays he feels comfortable ghng the briefing he'ddo it, so no need for pre-brief

--Or' Inal
mo ,m113 I T f ˆÃ f : nMr F
Sent: Thursday, July 07,2005 336 PM
To: Waxman, Matthew, WJ, OSD-POUCY
Subject: RE: Military Analyst Visit to Guantanm

hl.
did you get a response to this message?
also, would you pleaseforward your slides to me so that ican have someone start puttingthe briefing books together?
thanks
m
--.Wginal Message-Ñ
From: Waxman, Matthew, CIV, OSO-POUCr
Sent Thursday, July 07,2005 922AM
To: Ruff, Eric, SES, OASO-PA, Hemlngway, Thomas, ffi, DoDOCC; f l ^ B ^ ^ ^ H P A D M (OARDEC)'
CcflWB^MC'IV, OASD-PA
Subject: RE: Military A naw Vsit to Guanta-

Does H make sense to send them my slides in advance and to have a mane pre-bflef before I leave"?
Tom. otherwise, would you feel comfortable giving a brief policy overview, having heard my pitch a few times now
and knowing the law^

--Ottofnal Message--
From: Ruff, Eric, SES, OASO-PA
Sent: Thursday, July 07,2005 9:18AM
To: Waxiran, Matthew, U V , OSD-POUCY; Hemingway,Ttonias, ffi, DoOOGC,l[ PADM
,- - - - -,
InARnFCl
Cc-: CIV, OASD-PA
S u b j j : RE Mliitaq Analyst Visit to Guantanamo

good a.m. gentlemen, we have just receivedconfirmationthat we will be taking a new round of military
BY TIKES
From: ISFC. O A S W A
Sent: Thursday July 07.2005 945 AM
To: Ruff, Eric, SES. OASD-PA
Cc: I
Capt. USMC, O A S D - P A : [ I ~ ~ ~ Ã ˆCIV,
^ ~ OASD-PA
Subject; Phone msg from Jed Babbin

He i s on h a d for L a I omirrowDwould l i k e to see i f he could have a &I<

dogL on? Also, would like to speak w/you reference your GTMO t r i p .

Bias
Fmm: Wanman, Matthew. CIV. OSD-POLICY
Sent: Thursday, July 07,2005 9.26AM
To: Hemingway. Thomas, BG,DoD OGC
Cc: Ruff, Eric. SES. OASD-PAB!IIiaÑÑÑC OSD-POLICY
Subject: RE Military Analyst Visit to Guantanamo

Great. Thatwould be terrific. Are you in the building today of tomorrow? OTherwisewill discuss by Phone

--Original message^
From: Hemingway, Thomas, BG, DoD OGC
Sent; Thursday, July 07,2005 9:23 AM
To: Waxman, Matthew, ClV, OSD-POUCY
Cc: Ruff, Eric, SES, OASD-PA
Subject: RE: Military Analyst Visit to Guantananw

Matt
I'llbe happy to give your briefing but would like to meet with you orflflH before then to make sure I'm in sine with you1
"foot stampers."

Tom

Thomas L. Hemingway, Brig Gen, USAF

LegalAdvisor to the Appointing Authority
Office of Milita Commissions iDoD)
~oomigrgli
Crystal City

---Original Message----
From: Waxman, Matthew, CIV, OSD-POUCY
Sent; Thursday, luly 07,2005 0922
To: Ruff, Eric, SES, OASD-PA; Hemingway, Thomas, BG, DoD &C; -RADM IOARDEC)'
Cc CIV OASD-PA
S u b j e c t l i t a i v Analyst Visit to Guantanamo

Does n make sense 10 send them my sides in advance an0 lo have a pnone pm-tirief before 1 leave?
Tom othenwse would you fee. mmfonal'e giv "3 a br el policy oven ew h a i ng hearo m) pwh a few times now
an0 know no the law7

--Original Message--
From: Ruff, Eric, SES, DASD-PA
Sent!m d w , ~ u l 07,2005
y 9 : i AM
~
To: Waxman, Matthew, CIV, OSO-POUCY; Hemlngway, Thomas, BG, DoD OGC; RADM
10ARDECY
CC~KTE~^B CW,OASD-PA
Subject: RE: Milltaw Analyst Visit to Guantanamo

gooo a m gentlemen we have just recexea confirmaton that we will be taking a new round of rnilnav
p lows oown to gtmo on Neway.u i y 12 man snce you're w t next week this
ana ysis a very Strong g m ~ of
e m . is lor v o ~s/a
r i m lorn hooefuiv voi-r seneoueswi.' accommodate nod, travel na win 6aaam as
your briefings were ofgreat value to the analysts the same laydown as the last trip is being planned -out
early and back around8 D.m thinks, enc
F W ~ :
Sent:
..
~ A F I S - H O / P I A ~ *
Wednesday, July 06,2005 1:36 PM
- ,
To: Di Rita. L a w CIV. OSD' Barber. Allison. CIV OASD-PA, Ruff. Eric. SES, OASD-PA:

SubJect Military Analyst Visit to Guantanamo Wrap Up

An#&- Military Analyst Tour Wrap-Up 7.5 05.doc

Tour Wrap-up ...

Coveraoe of the military analyst visit to Guantanamo included 37 known article;
or intfvltwt acrosstelevision, online and radio outlets. Military analyst Lieutenant
Colonel Gordon Cucullu had the moat covenoe followed bv Malor General Sheooerd and then
Colonel Jacobs. Please see the attachment f i r the full report. -

MY TIKES 7395
 From: -CN, OASDPA
Sent: Wednesday, July 06. 2005 10:50AM
To: Ruff. Eric, SES. OASD-PA
Subject RE Monday,July 11

i believe the hearing is on the 20th, which is why the rush to get all the codels in next
week ... the 14th is tentative h/c of the probability that we'll get bumped by la bringing
1 the members who are not yet scheduled. i p l l chat with blackner asap and see what we
can do.
-----Original Message-----
From: ~ u f f ,Eric, SES, OASD-PA
TO: ..
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:30 AH
CIV, OASD-PA
Subject. ~e Monday, July 11

On the hill. Not back in office until 2ish. He need to get the anlyste down M the at.
There is a &ng hearing on the 14th that will review detainee issues. Analysts will have
. clease
good. fresh nersorctive. I don't want thr 14th to be tentative. Can vou . amrise
Go1 blackmo< of the hearing? Thanks.
-----.-.--..----.-.-------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld

Fyi. See below. I have a list and info from claude, too. Where are you?? L e t ' s
discuaa .....
--.----.---.-.--.-------.-
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld

Sent: Wed J u l 06 09.55:13 1005

Sub3ec:: RE. Monday, July 11
Sorry for the brevity. Thursday, July 14th is very tentative right now. Prefer not to
schedule at this point. We have 3 - 4 CODEL3 scheduled for next week and there is movement
based on OSD-LA'S efforts to combine t r i p s . We have an operational blackout on visits
between 16-20 July. Beat dates I can give you right now are July 21, 22, 27, 28, 29,

..
V/R

LTC. FA

...-.
From: ..
Orlg~naltle3saqe-.---
CIV, OASD-PA Inailto: ,
To:
1 CC: .
.
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 9:21 AH
. . COL ILI'
LTC IL)

NÂ TIMES 7396
Subject: RE: Monday, July 11

Great, Thanks.
I am also checking with our leg affairs folks here in the building to make sure we're ok
I hope to have this nailed down by mid-day. Doable?
Thanks
mm
.---.
From:
. ..
Original Message-----
COL ILI [milto
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 9:13 AM
To: CIV, OASD-PA'
-
C c : Salveson. Curt R. LTC (LI
Subject- R E Monday, July 11

I have forwarded your email to LTC ..

, our JVB Director. He will be
able to deconflict a possible visit with our CODEL visit^.

B3H3I
COL Â .
Director of Public Affairs
i t Task Force G u n t a m n o

.....original Message-----
. , .
To:

..
.
From:

Cc:.
.
.

.
CIV, OASD-PA [mailto:
Sent: Tuesday. July 05, 2005 6 : 2 4 PM
LCDR ILI '
COL ID;
Ma], OASD-PA
, . COL ILÈ LTC (Ll;
Sub]e;C HE Monday, July 11

Would you please check on the feasibility of a July 14th visit and let me know as a w n -8
possible?
Thanks
iisn
-..-.
Prom: ..
Original Message-----
. LCDR I
Sent: Tueeday, ~ u l y05. 2035 5:28 PM
D [milto:[iI
To:
CC! COL (Ll;, - COL (Ll;,- L W (Ll :
BTORÑà Ma-] OASD-PA FIRT^f^H (E-mail1
Sublect: RE: Yonday, July 11

[(Â¥UG
After checking schedules, 11 July will not work. There is currently a OODEL
h e d u l e d to visit JTF-GTMO
on 11 July. Both W R , USSOUTHCOM and W R , JTF-GTMO support the media analyst visit but do
not wish co
have both the media analyst and CODEL on the mame day. We ace standing by to work an
alternate day. I do not
have full exposure to the CODEL visit calander at this time but I know there are either
icheduled or tentative CODEL8
on 6, 8. 11, 12, 1 3 , 15 and 18 Jul. If you receive this e-mail after hours please try me
in my cell phone.

NY TIKES 7397
 LCDR Â
Plans officer
U.S. Southern Command Public Affairs

.. .
office: ^5TEX^^ÑÑ
Cell:

Prom: , .
-----OriginalMessage-----
CIV, OASD-PA [milto 0 .
To: .
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 12:49 PH

Subject- Monday, July 11

LCDR ID

xi M
Thanks for your help on this. I've attached land pasted belenrt the list of those are
currently scheduled to be on the flight. There could be one or two additions, and 1 will
let you know soonest if that ie the case.
Please forward BGen Hood's contact info as soon as you can.

Please also let me know what else you need from me.
Thanks again,
mm
cccountry clearance 1ist.doo:
Mr. Eric f s a 1 Assistant to the Deputy Secretary of Defense
SSN:

Brig- Gen Torn HemlngwaY, USAF, Legal Adviser for the Office of Military Commissions
SSN:

Affairs Specialist. C m i t y Relatione and Public Liaimn

Mr. ~ e ~d a b b m IOSAF, JAG)

SEN: ffilRiOÑÑ

L T C , USA. Retired)

Lieutenant Colonel Bill Cowan IOSMC. Retired)

SSN: [I.B@B
Colonel Jeff ~ccaualand USA, Retired)
SSN: [OK-i^^H

Lieute?ant General Thomas ~ c r n t m q I U W , Retired)

SSN:

Major General Michael J. ~acdotti,~ r . (USA, Retired)

SSN: rang
Captala Lhuck Hash u r n , Retired)
B3Ñ
Lieutenant General Erv Rokke (USAF. Retired)
SSN:

Lieutenant Colonel Carlton Sherwood (USKC,Retired)

SSN:

4
 Captain Martin L. Strong [USH. Retired)
SSN:

Major General Paul E . Vallely (USA. Retiredl

SSN: ,,
Respectfully,
OSD Public Affairs
C i i t y Relations and Public Liaison
BXTfeM The Pentagon
,) 20301-1400
 ..
From: fCB^^H CIV. OASD-PA
Sent: Wednesday, July 06,2005 8:45AM
To; Ruff Eric SES, OASD-PA
Subjecl: RE Monday. July 11

i haven't heard back from him yet. I'll follow up with him this morning.
i s m checking with southcorn to make sure the 14th ia a go and then will get all the details
worked out. onwards and upwards.
sa
From: Ruff, Eric, s&, OASD-PA
To: .
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:21 AM
CIV, OASD-PA
Subject RE. Monday, July 11

i'm still miffed about this. have you heard from claude? we need to know all of the
doggone dates that codela are scheduled and he should be telling ua this... are we
coordinated with la? thanks, 1

-----Original Message-----
From: Ruff. Eric. SES, OASD-PA
Sent: 'Iueeday,yI: 05, 2005 6:12 PM
To: I OASD-PA) Barber, Alliaon, CIV, OASD-PA; LÈwrenCe
Dallas, OASD-PA
Subject: Re. Monday, July 11

Have we heard about these from NMTjAfl -- i.e. Does he know about them? Thank*. Let's
look at the 14th
..-----.--.---..---.----.-
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireleas Handheld

---.-
From: .
original Message-----
CIV, OASD-PA
>- *
To: Barber, Allison, CIV, OASD-PA <Allison.BarberMlSWaW>; Ruff, Eric, SES, OASD-PA
<Eric.Ruff Lawrence, Dallas. OASD-PA <Dallaa.Lawrence
sent: Tue20:1350?%?! 2005 liana
Subject: PU: Monday, July 11

apparently, there is also a codel on July 12th and 13th aa well aa the lath, which was
tentatively when we wanted to schedule the next trip.

-
apparently, there is no trip scheduled for the 14th. shall i look to reschedule for that
date??
..--. Original Message-----
From: .
Sent Tueada
J u l
. LCDR ILJ
y 0 5 . 2005 5:2B PM
]-l:otliam[
CIV OASD-PA
COL [LJl COL ILI; , . LTC IL);
Subject:: RE: Monday. July 1 1

H!l!(ill
After ohecking eehedule~,11 July will not work. There ia currently a W E L
scheduled to visit JTw-GTMO

BY TIMES
 on 11 July. Both CDR, USSOUTHCDU and CDR, JTF-GTMo support the media analyst visit but do
not wish to
have both the media analyst and CODEL on the same day. we are standing by to work an
alternate day. I db not
have full exposure to the CODEL visit calander at this time hut I know there are either
scheduled or tentative COD EL^
on 6 , 8 , 11, 12, 13. 15 and 18 Jul. If you receive this e-mail after hours please try me
on my cell phone.

Prom: .
-----Original Message-----
CIV, OASD-PA [ m a i l t o : f l i
To: .
Sent: Tuesaay, ~ u l y05, 2005 12:48 PM
Subject: Monday. July 11
. LCDRIL)

Hi
Thanks for your help on this. I've attached land pasted below) the list of those are
currently scheduled to be on the flight. There could be one or two additions, and I will
let you know soonest if that ia the case.
Please forward BQen Hood's contact info as soon as you can.
Please also let me know what else you need from re.
&h again,

Â¥iccouncr clearance 1iat.doca;

Mr. E
SSN: . l Assistant to the Deputy Secretary of Defciee

Brig Gen Tom Hemingway, USAF, Legal Adviser for the Office of Military Commissions
SSN:

Public Affairs Specialist, C m u n i t y Relations and Public Liaison

SSN: fnimi^HiB
Mr. Jed ~ a b b i n (USAF. JAG)
-:N"
ssN dJames
Dr. r a.la f a n o (LTC, USA, Retired)

L e t t Colonel C ill cowan (USMC, Retired)

SSN:
Colonel ~ e f f~ccausland (USA, Retired)
^B-fflM
SSN: ..
Lieutenant General Thomas uclnerney IUSAF, Retired)

Major General Michael J. ~ardotti,~ r . (USA, Retired!

10

HY TIMES 7401
SSN: .
Captain Chuck Nash IUSN, Retired)
SSN:

SSN: .
Lieutenant: General Erv Rokke fUSAF, Retired)

Lieutenant Colonel Carlton Sherwood IVSMC, Retired)

SSN:
Captain Martin L. Strong IUSN, Retired)
SSN:
Major General Paul 8 . Vallely I T O , Retired)
SSN'

Respectfully,
OSD Public Affairs
C o m i t y Relations and Public Liaison
IThe Pentagon
D C . 20301-1400

<< ..OLEOb, ...

Ã

~.AmericaSupportaYou.mil

MY TIMES
..
From:
Sent:
s .
Wednesday, July
CIV OASD-PA
:k2;;&$p
To:
Subject FW Shppary Clinton (Babbin)

htto'//www swectator.or~/dsparticle asw?an id=8356

h t t p : / / w . s ~ e c t a t o r . o r a / dartlce.asw':'art
~~ 10=8356\

Department of Defense

The American Spectator

Jed Babbin

NY TIMES 7403
From: Barber,Allison, CIV, OASD-PA [alllson.barberiafRnT'C
Sent: Tuesday, July 05,2005 535 PM
To:
cc:
Subject
;lV,
. .
OASD-PA: Lawrence, Dallas. OASD-PA
FW Monday,July n

hi eric
your call since these are your trips i know you are out.,.soif wedont hearfromyou tomorrow, we will push the trip to the
14th.. you will also need to chat wffi bryan about getting a press officer to go with you.-an? go

thanks hope you had a nice fourth.

ab
---Original Message-
Fmm:fnin3^BCW, OASD-PA [mallto
Sent; Tuesday, July 05,2005 5:31 PM
-
To: Barber, Allson, W, OASD-PA; Ruff, Eric, SES, OASO-PA; Lawrence, Dallas, OASD-PA
Subject: FW: Monday, July 11

-
apparently,there Is also a codel on July12th and 13th as well as the lath, which was tentatively when we wanted to
schedulethe next tnp.

apparently,there is no trip scheduledfor the 14th. shall 1look to rescheduletor that date??

~mm: .
---Original Message-
,LCDR (L)[mailto; , .
.. -.
Sent: TucsHay, July 05,2005 5:28 PM
To: , N,OASD-PA
cc: COL (L); COL (L]; -LTC (L); =Ma] OASD+A-(E-
".>,,*,,,
=,,
Subject; RE: Monday, July 11

VSS3S
After checking schedules, 11 July will not work. There Is currently a CODEL scheduled to visit
JTF-GTMO
on 11 July. Both CDR, USSOUTHCOM and CDR, JTF-GTMO support the media analyst visit but do
not wish to
have both the media analyst and CODEL on the same day. We are standing by to work an alternate
day. I do not
have full exposure to the CODEL visit calanderat this time but I know there are either scheduled or
tentative CODELs
on 6, 8. 11, 12, 13, 15 and 18 Jul. If you receive this e-mail after hours please try me on my cell
phone.

MY TIMES 7404
4 r t Inal Mess e
~ r o n i : ~ G , o m . ~ [mito
t , .. L
To: ..
Sent: Tuesday, luly 05,2005 1.248 PM
.
Subject: Monday, luly 11
, J LCDR (L)

HI=
Tnanns foryour ne.0 on tnls I've attached (and pasted below) me 1st of tnoseare cxirennyscneduledto beon the
fligr-I Tnem could DC one w two add tons ana i w let yen. know toonem t that s the case

Please forward BGen Hood's contact info as soon as you can

Please also let me know what else you need from me.

Grb agah

Â¥^countrclearance listdoc=

Mr. Eric Ruff, S cia1 Assistant to the Deputy Secretary of Defense

S S N d

Brig Gen Tom Hemingway, USAF, Legal Adviser for the Office of Military Commissions
SSN:.Bffiir

I
Public Affairs Specialist, Community Relationsand Public Liaison
SSN:-

Mr. Jed Babbin (USAF, JAG)

SSN-

Dr. James Jay Carafano (LTC, USA, Retired)

SSNiIflTIifl^H

Lieutenant Colonel Bill Cowan (USMC, Retired)

SSN:Èang

Colonel Jeff McCausland (USA, Retired)

SSN: 13101
Lieutenant General Thomas Mclnerney (USAF, Retired)
SSN: ^ gi
Major General Michael J. Nardotti, Jr. (USA, Retired)
SSN:a.H@B

Captain Chuck Nash (USN, Retired)

S S N : B
14
 Lieutenant General EN Rokkc (USAF,Retired)
SSN:BSBB
Lieutenant Colonel Carton Sherwood (USMC, Retired)
SSN:

Captain Martin L. Strong (USN,Retired)

SSN:[(gTtgr

Major General Paul E. Vallely (USA. Retired)

SSN:Èal(i

RewnfiBy,
iiin^r
OSD PublicAffarrs
Community Relations and Public Liaison
UKTUIThe Pentagon
20301~1400

IS

KY TIKES 7406
From: JedBabbin@BaB3Ã
Sent:
To: m-
Tuesday, Jul 05 20057 14AM
wh11e- nashct@HSlH!r; Glenstrae77
CIV. OASD-PA, WSSlntenBiianai:
robenhscales@#
Subject: Today's Spectator The ConfirmationAgenda

The President needs to be on the attack, not the defensive through the coming mess in the Senate.

The American Soectator

HY TIMES 7407
Fmm: Waxman Matthew, CIV. OSD-POLICY
Sent: F n d w July O i , 2005 793 PM
To: CIV. OSD-POLICY; Ruff,Eric, SES, OASD-PA Whitnrn, Bryan, SES,
OASD-PA
Cc: CIV OSD-POLICY,IEHEBÑÑÑ CIV. USA. OSO-POLICY
Subject:

Do I understand this to mean he wants to do an interview at 700 a.m. on the 4th of july!?
I do NOT want to discuss the UN special raaporteur issue. That isn't something we have a
lot to say on or to gain from talking about right now
-.--..-..----.-----.----.-
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld

From: .
-----OriginalMesaage-----
CIV, OSD-POLICY < . ,.
To: Waxroan, Matthew, CIV, OSD-POLICY <Matthew.Waxman
CC:
POL Y'C .
.
CIV, OSD-POLICY a-y . COL, USA, OSD-
S t : 1 Jul 01 18Â¥33:5 2005
Subject: Fw: JED BABBIN/RADIO INTERVIEWS

Matt,
FYI - more background and I'll talk to PA as well

Prom: .
-----originalMeasage-----
. CAPT, OASD-PA
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 1:11 PI4
T o : ~ C d r , O A S D - P A ;
PA;
. ..
LC Col, OASD-PA:
, CAPTAAUSN: 6 ,
CIV. OSD-POLICY
, Maj, OASD-
CC: l'drner, J a n e = , CIV, OASD-PA:- Co:, OASD-PA; Whitman, Bcyan, SES, 0ASD.PA;
Ruff, Eric, SPS OASD-PA
Subiecc: F W - JED BABBINIRADIO INTERVIEWS

Jcb Babbin would like to interview Gen Herningway, Hathew Waxman, andlor RADM McGarrah on
the Monday radio programs he is guest heating. Both ahows are on WMET-AN, Washington DC.
The morning ahow ie 0700 -
0900, the afternoon ahow ia 1200 -
1400. He would like to have
Waxman on the early ahow and either BGen Hemingway or RADM McGarrah during the a£temoo
show. That said, he is flexible and will accomodate their schedules as long as he could
get at least one of them on each of the two shows that day.
1 Babbin was asking questions about the recent Statement from the UN Human Rights
group. LtCol Skinner is double-checking to see if the below response co query regarding
the UN is till valid and will inform "8 ns soon aa he get* a responme in came they are
asked on the show.
Flex, would like you to be overall coordinator for the Bobbin Monday shows. Babbin said
he could only handle one interview per show so don't need all three, but would like t o
have at least one per show if at all possible. Here is Babbin's contact numbers:

Please make contact with Jed today to let him know you are working this. Thanks

BY TIMES 7408
From: FHITd^^Hciv OASD-PA
Sent: Friday, Jub 01 2005 8:44 AM
To:
e .
Barber, ~llso(CIV.OASD-PA: Laurence. Dallas,OASD-PA:Ruff, Eric. SES, OASD-PA;
CIV. OASD-PA
FW Dillon o p d on Grtm in NationalReview Online

more *age out of the gitmo trip

TO
Sent: Friday, July 01,2005 %40 AM
70:- CIV, OASD-PA
Subject: FW Dillon oped on Gitmo in National Review Online

July 01,2005, 8:15 a.m.

Model Gitmo
Very far away from anything Amnesty claims

By Dana Dillon

As long as institutions are created and staffed by human beings, rather than gods, they will be
imperfect. At best. What distinguishes the good institutionsfrom the bad is not whether they make
mistakes, but how they handle mistakeswhen they occur.

Recently Ivisiied our military's much-maligned detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. I found
the prisoners there were treated humanely and justiv, living in conditions that meet - indeed, far
exceed - Geneva Conventionstandards for prisonertreatment

It's not prudent to speculate on the motives behind the histrionic criticisms of Gitmo recently launched
by human Rights Watch an0 Amnesty International But if these institutions truly wish to advance
human riqhtsrthevwould do far better to focus on the Defense Department's responseto prisoner-
abuse scandals -and hold it up as a model for security forces around the world.

Sensationalheadlinesmay be a boon for fundraising, but they do not always spur reform. Remember
the tempest over Abu Ghraib? The world was shocked and enraged at the sight of those photos of
prisoner abuse. But well before those photos were published,the U.S. military had recognized the
problems and was moving to correct them - in Abu Ghraib and elsewhere in Iraq and Afghanistan.

How. exactly, has the Pentagon responded? It has moved decisively to hold the actors accountable.
More than 390 criminal investiaationsare either in orcaress or completed. So far. there have been 50
referrals to courts-martial. more tnan 85 non-judicialp i k n m e m s and 26 admmistralve act ons At
J b alone, the commandinggeneral was relievedof duty and reduced in rank. the
A ~ Gnra
Inte ligence Brigade commander was relieved, there were eignt courts-mania'. four officers received

HY TIMES 7409
non-judicialpunishment, and action is still pending for another 13 soldiers.

The Defense Decartment'soromct and nainstakina resnonse to irncroner conduct demonstrates its
appreciationof tne tmportance of dele& werations andits commitknt to 00th me humane
treatment of pnsoners and accountab lity Thais something Amnesty International snob d be
promoting as a model for other nations 1even some of ou~alliesin the war on terrorism

Consider Thailand. An ally of the United States, Thailand is battling a Muslim insurgency in its
southern provincesthat may have connectionswith internationalterrorists. Unfortunately, the
negligence and lack of accountability of the Thai security forces are making the situation worse. In
October 2004, Thai forces arrested 1.000 protesters. Eighty-fourof them died in custody, most from
suffocation while crowded in trucks.

Thai authorities conducted an investiaation. but the result was the transfer - not demotion. not court-
martial,just the transfer- of three generals' No one was court-martialed,or received any other
punishment Today, the insurgency in Thailand remains active, with the level of brutality on both
sides increasing, not deciininsj.

Thailano is not alone. The Pnilippnes and Indonesia are also fighting homegrown terrorists, and tney
too are experiencingpmokms in law enforcement ana the oeÈent.o of prisoners. Tne Unileo States
and responsibleinternational nongovernmentalorganizations concernedwith human rights should
share the American experience to our allies in the war on terrorism.

Of course. "res~onsibkNGO" means the InternationalCommittee of the Red Cross iICRC1. not
Human Rights Watch (HRW) or Amnesty International(Al) One lesson learned by tne Amencan
armed forces is that the ICRC is a valuable partner in assuring the hmane treatment of prisoners
while A1 an0 HRW are thinly disguised partisan poiitcal organizations

ICRC has maintained an active presence at Guantanamo Gay since 2002 and has interviewed all of
the detainees But rather than sex up its reports and blare them to the media. ICRC sends their first-
hand assessments. in confidence, to the responsiblegovernments. This gives officials the chance to
correct mistakeswithout public outcry, an important consideration for many developing countries.

Brigadier General Jay Hood. the commander of the detention facilities, says that 1CRC suggestions
helped him create a detention facility that meets all the international standards. In addition to the
iCRC, more than 1,000journalists have visited Gitmo, plus eleven senators. 77 congressmen. 99
conoressionalstaffers, and. of course. lawyers for the detainees. Desoite a olethoraof available
eyewitness testimony to tne Humane conditions in Amencan military detention faclrties, A1
denounced Guanianamo as the 'gi, ag of our times." an0 HRW compare0 AD4 Ghra b to Darfur

Detentionocerations olav a vital role in the war on terrorism. American milrtarv Dolie maintain a
detention" specialty to operate prisons and handle pnsoners Militaries in developing countries need
s rn lar training InternationalMilitary Educationand Training (MET) f ~ n d sshoulo be made availabk
to countries like Thailano the Philippines and Indonesiato train their soldiers in law-enforcement
and prisonerdetentionspecialties. That's a much safer alternative than falsely screaming "gulag!"

- RetiredArmy Major Dana R. Dfllonis seniorpolicyanalyst at the Hentaae Foundation.

 -.--
BY TIMES
 I
~mm:
Sent:
l c a w USMC, OAS~-PA
Thursday June 30 2005 AM 8 H;
To: ~emingway,~homas, B G ~ OGCD ~
Cc: Ruff. Enc, SES, OASD-PA
Subject. FW Transcripts of Comments by MilitaryAnalysts who visited Guantanamo

Attachrnmn: Gitmo Military Analyst Transcripts O62705.doc

Mr. Ruff asked me to forward these transcripts to you.

c a P t . m

-
Subject:Transcripts of Comments by Military Analysts who visited Guantanamo

Transcripts attached

T h a n k s to Dallas L a w r e n c e for t h e air timeslinfo h e provided -much

appreciated.

NY TIMES 7412
From: Lawrence, Dallas, OASD-PA
Sent: Wednesday. June 29.2005 959 AM
To: Ruff, Eric, SES. OASD-PA; Barber, Allison CN, OASD-PA
SubjtCl; FW Grew on Gitmo

Attachment!: SJGF Logo.jpg

-.mglnal Mesap--
From: Steven I. Greer CSM (Ret) [mailto:steven
Sent: Tuesday,lune 28,2005 6:14 PM
-
Vacuncy at GuantanamoBay, Cuba

Steven J. Greer

26June2005

'Club Giimo?" Perhaps Rush Limbaugh had a crystal ball when he compared the Guantanamo Bay
Detention Facility to luxurious Club Meo resorts. Not to be outaone by the conservativeradio cntic.
Senators 0 ck Ourbin and Robert Bvrd gazed into their own cwstal balls. What tnev saw is chilling-
torture chambers, gulag tactics, humanrightsviolations' Truth be told. Guantanamo is neither a
resort nor gulag.

"We conduct confinementand interrogationof the worst of the worst terrorist operatives," remarked
Brigadier General Jay Hood. Commander. JTF-Guantanarw Bay. Sound pretty straightfoward? Not
hardly. Hood and his professional task force of soldiers, sailors, coastwardsman, and civilians
operate under increased scrutiny of late. Thev swnd an enormous amount of time reswndina to
international pressures un nforhed criticismsand irrespons.bie journalism "Every crazy story
impacts our mission 'said Command Sergeant Major Angel Feoies No doubt' Camp Delta is tied
up 2 3 times a week conducting " a q &pony" shews for VIPs and international rneoia honeineess,
Hood and company remain stoic, focused, and unwavering

Since September 11. 2001, more than 70,000 enemy combatants have been captured in Afghanistan
27

MY TIMES 7413
and Iraq. The majority released or confined in facilities abroad. Only a fraction of suspected Taliban
or A1 Qaeda associates have "checked-in " remina the oleasures and comforts associatedwith
Camp Delta Perks such as ice cream, a&nh6ned ceiir prayer rugs, checker boarc games.
volleyoal and state of me art medical care Detainees. political correctness for extfem sis who wish
to kill us -eat three squares a day, peruse Martha Stewart Living, and play soccer. Sound like
torture?

So what do reasonable people make of reports of wide spread abuse? One recent delegation of
mi itav analysts learnea first hand -abuse is pervasiveand inaiscriminate~Indiviauals are oeing spit
on, head butted, peppered with feces and urineon a weekly basis. Unfortunatelyfor Durbin, and
Byrd, the recipients of such vulgar treatment are not detainees; they are guards -

American Soldiers and Sailors.

-
Americans shouldn't be at all surmised. Came Delta isn't home to alter bow there are bomb
makers, terrorist facilitators. ~ ~ ~ ' b o d y ~ u aana
r dwould-be
s, suiciae bombers. Some 8CO total
mlawful enemy combatants have been detained at Guantanamo. All are Taliban or Al Qaeda
associates. Several hundred have been released or transferred oursuant to the Combatant Status
Review Tribunal and Administrative Review Board process. cumbersome processes akin to working
a rubrics cube blindfolded.

Approximately 520 detainees remain at Camp Delta Of these. 100 am suspected of possessing
nigh-valueintelligence information Tnese "magn ficent' 100 are interrogated routinely Aoout 35%
are compiiant. the ba ance combative, nostiie, and uncooperative T M ~ we K torture tnese fo ks7 Not
nardly Peering Through single-sidedg ass one gets a sense of just how cunning, dangerous and
elusive tnis enemy can be Yet we don't ~ s torture?
e "Tne most effective way to draw creoible
information is through rapport building, not force," quipped a senior female analyst with 3 years at
Guantanamo. One detainee favored hostess donuts...eatina a dozen (with his left hand) while his
interrogator patient!y asked questions Another flipped tnmigh pages of Divers World magame
(he's from the coast of LiOya and enjoys me w a w Wh ie another carefully sippea Seanle's Best
Coffee. Incentives- a small price to pay to save lives

Interrogationis a cat and mouse game "Ifs a chess match, both interrogator and detainee are
hanging on every word. remarkea one senior interrogator Analysis at Camp Delta continueto
receive nformationmat saves lives and uncovers Al Qaeda netwoms Every detainee has a story to
tell and is a potential treasure tmve of information. So what makes a detainee want to talk?
'Rapport building. that's tne strategy that we employ ana it's effective' said Genera Hood And
Hood takes this strategy ser ouslv For example, detainees are free to practice their Muslim faith
Hood ordered smal olack arrows paintea on each O~nkand in all common areas tne arrow points
toward Mecca' He also ordered the playing of the Muslim "call to prayer" over the camp loudspeaker
5 times per day. Sound like a Gulag?

NY TIMES
The result of such pamperec care is undeniable More then 4,000 reports capture information
provided by detarnees much of it corroboratedDy otner intelligencereporting This unprecedented
body of knowledge has expanded our underslandlna of Ai Qaeda and other associated networks
Many detainees nave admmc close relationshipsto senior A1 Qaeda leadersnip providing valuable -
ins ghts into the strdcture lraming, goais, and f nanc~almechanisms Guanianamo Bay is our only
strategic interrogationcenter and isimperativeto prosecuting the war on terrorism

Lessons learned are advancing the operationalart of intelligenceand development of strategic

interrooationsdoctrine. Moreover. thev sneak to the omfessionalismexhibited bv hundreds of men
ana women deployed to Cuba to protect our freedoms Not quite a resort and c&ainly not a gulag.
pernaps Limbauqh Durbin, an0 Byrd have time to visit? Tne sign reads "Vacancy at Guantanamo
Bay, Cuba," andGenerai Hood and company are gracious hosts.

Author Steven J. G m r Is a Professor at American Military University and fellow with the NaffinalDefense Council
Foundation. He recently visited Camp Delta.

htt~://Www.the(lreerfoundation.orq We The People (Thank You) CD Album...tribute to the troops!

Steven J. Grew, CSM, Ret
steve tek

Add me to your address book ... Want a signature like this?

 Militmy Analysts- Gilmo Trip W r a w U ~
.
(Media Coverase: June 24 -Julv, 51

Coverageof the military analyst visit to Guantanamo included 37 known articles or

interviews across television. nrint- online and radio outlets. Military analvst Lieutenant
Colonel Gordon Cucullu hadthe most coverage followd by Major General Sheppcrd and
then Colonel Jacobs. Themes were consistent with last week's topics as follom.

Pnsoner/GuardAbuse
> ..
Most abuse is either toward U.S. military oersonnel andlor between ~risoners
9 U S military guards are regularly threatened by prisoners
Some analysts stated there may have been past abuses at Gimo but not now
Prisoner Interroeations
> ~nterro~ators are building relationshipswith prisoners; not torturing them
> We arc still gaining valuable information from prisoners
9 ~nterrogationsare very professionally run
Quality of Prisoner Care
9 Soldiers EO out of their wav to accommodate Islamic wactices by. . -
Drovidine
prayer rugs, Korans and directional m o w s pointing toward Mecca
> Dietar> needs of prisoners are taken into considerationand medical care is
provided
Closine
~ - G- h- o
-
> Gitmo exceeds Geneva Convention requirements
> We should not close this facility and let dangerousterrorists out

>> Analysis fell criticism of DoD is unfair and misguided

DoD should have been more open about Gitmo sooner
> Analyst tour is "long overdue"and there is "nothing to be ashamed ofs
> Television media has outdated images of Gitmo (i.e. showed a rundown facility)

COVERAGE BY MEDIA OUTLET

OSD
Public Affairs Research and Analysis

NY TIKES
 Amount of Coveraze oer Analvst No Known Post-Trip Commentary

IIWIflnh
unen 9 Colonel Tim J. Eads
D Colonel Glenn Lackey
Cueull"
~acob*
-
9 Retired CIA Wayne Simmons
(Quoted within a Gordon Cuculiu piece)

GCÈ
Mold
0 5 10 15 20

SUMMARY OF MEDIA COVERAGE

('indicates new media not covered in last report)

WNBC-NY fNBC) - Today

6/25/2005 7:08:07 AM
9 General discussion of Gitmo structural changes, prisoner treatment and Red Cross
interviewsof detainees. Also talked about whether G i l m should continueTO
detain prisoners.

MSNBC News Live

6/25/2005 11:20:12 AM
D Discussed the quality of the facilities,prisoner interrogationsand Red Cross
involvement Also commented on the professionalism of the military personnel at
Gitmo and believes DoD is doing the "right thing" at Gitmo.

6/27/2005 3:24:11 PM

OSD 2
Public Affairs Researchand Analysis

BY TIMES 7417
 > Spoke of lhc numerous changes at Gitmo. For example, building rapport with
prisoners, the high quality of food and facility improvementsin comparisonto
pas^ conditions.

Command Sereant Miior Steven Grew

(Fox News interview on Saturday, June 25; not available)

- Fox and Friends Sunday

6/26/2005 9:45:13 AM
> Emphasized that intcnvgations arc built on rapport rather than torture and that the
food quality is good. Also discussed the fact that prisoners attack military guards.

Maior & m i Donald W.Shepnerd

(Radio interviews ABC Radio -New York and CNN Radio this Weekend: not available)

PrintIOnline:
Visit offers elimme into Guantanamo
lCM\'.com:online CNN article bv General Donald S h e d , .. .
) - Julv 1
> Criticism of DoD is unfair and misjudged. Gitmo replicates military justice
systems ( i t . military tribunals) and is modeled after US. prisons. "Certainly no
gulag."

Television:
CNN - American Morning
-
6/27/2005 9:14:57AM
9 Discussed m~ards'professionalism, the duality of facilities and intenomlion
techniques(i.e. building relationshipswith prisoners).

Live from CNN

6/24/05 2 5 0 PM
9 Gitmo is a modem prison system with dedicated guards and interrogatorswho
know what they'redoing. Stated that analysts had access to multiple parts of the
facility despite the fact that is was a DoD sponsored trip.

m-
CNN Europe
6/27/2005 4:21:29 PM
9 Military commissions are going on right now. US. guards are angry that Gitmo
is being portrayed in a negative fashion in the media. Early abuses have been

Colonel Jack Jaco

(bfsmcintewtew -June 2&% available)
OSD
Public Affiin Reseuchand ~ ~ ~ l ~ ~ i ~
 -
MSNBC
6/26/2005 9 3 5 5 6 AM
> He did not get an; sense of abuse taking place Stated that the DoD needs 10 be
more proactwe about KS Gitmo PR efforts Valuable and actionable intel'igence
is stillbeing collected

6/26/2005 10:38:56 AM
9 DoD has been very accommodating to Islamic practices at the Gitmo facilities
(i.e. prayer rugs,ritually slaughteredmeat, etc.) and conditions are changing for
the better.

6/26/2005 11:47:47 AM
9 Observed "relationship building" between the detainees and guards and discussed
the high quality of the Giimo facilities.

n
6
b Mentionsthere may have been abuse in the past but not now. Discussed the high
aualitv of the facility and the fact that there is still new information k i n e
gathered.

Lieutenant Colonel Gordon Cnculhi

(Articles: The Waiton Reporter -New York; Democracy Preyed; The Right Approach
Radio: WABC -New York Citv Dennis Praner - 1.0s Andes. KKLA - Los Anceles.
KABB - Los Angeles. Greg Allen- Tampa,WUFI washington. DC. KFI -LO;
Angeles, KTFK -St. Louis, Liberty BmadcasIing - Nationally Syndicated, True North
Radio - W a t e r b q (VT), Greg Allen Show -Tampa- Not Available)

PrintIOnline
nterrosations a t GITMO: Breakme Stereotvnes...*
-
(The One Republic Journal; Gordon Cuculiu) July 5
9 Observed interrogationswhile visiting Guantanamoand spoke ofthe importance
of building rapport with the detainees. New informationcontinues to be collected
from detainees. Was impressed by the professionalism of the facility personnel at
the camp.

Ahuie at Guanfoamo: Reoonlne OD a visit to Citmo...'

(The One Republic Journal, Gordon Cucul.~,- June 28
b Attacks on American service members from prisoners are common. Inspection of
cells indicated "a far cry from the harshness of American maximum security .
prisons." 'Combatants are evil and dangerous."
OSD
Public Affairs Research and Analysis

MY TIMES 7419
 Motherins Terrorists at GItmo
(hrontPageMagazinecorn :Gordon Cucullu) - June 28
9 ~risonersreceive a 2,600-calorie diet. Facility personnel and guards are regularly
attacked and gaining information continues to be a challenge. He commended
personnel at the Gitmo facility.

What 1 Saw a t Gitmo

CFrontPa~eMaeazine.wm:Gordon Cucullu) June 27 -
> 0bsewed interrogationsand commented on the quality of medical care. He also
pointed out that the Korans handed out all hate protective cases

- f ox and Friends First

6/27/2005 6-23-12AM
Discussed the morale of prison guards despite public criticism of how IheGitmo
facility is run Continue to build rclmionships wh prisoners to gain actionable
intelligence. The camp continues to serve 6s purpose.

-
Fox News* Dayside u4h Linda V e s a
6/29/2005 1:42:06 PM
9 Dangerous detainees regularly threaten guards and interrogations are necessary in
order to gain continued intelligence.

Maior Dana R. Dillon

Print/Online
Model Gitmo: Vew far away from anvthine Amnesty claims.'
(Mationd Review; Dana Dillon) July I -
> Detainees are treated humanely and just. The Pentagon is holding US.personnel
who have previously mistreated prisoners accountable. The detention operations
at Gitmo play a "vital role" in the waron tenor.

Lieutenant Colonel Robert Maeinnls

PrintIOnline
Commentary & News Briefs
(Agape Press; Compiled by Jody Brown quoting Robert Maginnis on Gitmo)- June 27
P Observed the interrogation process and was impressed with the level of
professionalism at the camp. New intelligenceis surfacing all the time.

OSD
Public Affairs Research and Analysis

NY TIMES 7420
 MILITARY ANALYST FEEDBACK
POST GUAVTANAMO VISIT
lr.tnsi.npt-. June :5.:7,2005)

i Note: These are clips found as of 1500Monday. More may follow.

I Highlights:

9 General Monteornew Meiw

o WNBC-NY. 6/25 The DoD is startincto do a better iob of telline the
Gitmo story, which is "professionally run."
o MSNBC News Live, 6/25: Compared Gitmo to the DoD Leavenworth
facility. All the right things, including interrogations,are being done
"correctly."
9 Command Sereeant Maior Steven Gner
o Fox and Friends- 6/26: What we have done to "consistently ensure
humane treatment" is amazing...the interrogationsarc "definitely
working."
9 Maim ~ e n e r aDonald
i W. SheoDerd
o C W A m e r i c a n Morning, 6/27: Gitmo "bears no resemblance" to how it's
portrayed in the press. The guards are dedicated and doing "an extremely
tough job" with the dangerous detainees.
> Colonel Jack Jacobs (three different c l i ~ s )
o MSNBC 6/26: Gitmo is "a very nice facility." But the DoWs invitation
for ana ysis to tour the fmlny uas' long overdue. " "There'snothing lo
be ashamed OFand 11 makes no sense" toclose Gitmo
o ARA'BC, 6/26 Conditionsat Gimo have changed for the belter over the
years.. the soldiers "go out of their way" to a&ommodate Islam at the
prison
o MSNBC, 6/26:Conditionsexceededexpectations- the cells are "high
tech." The interrogatorsare establishingrelationships with detainees to
gain information, but "it takes time."
P Lieutenant Colonel Gordon Coeullo
o Fox and Friends - 6/27/05' G i m is a "very smooth-working,operating
procedure that may have had problems in the beginning but is now up and
running." The facility and guards are "impressive."

I OSD
Public AffairsRe-h dAnalysis
I
Transcripts!

General Montgomery M e i a
{Found Weekend Today Show dip and USNBC - Ms Weelanddip)

WNBC-NY (NBQ - Today

6/25/2005 7:08:07 AM
Newscaster: Earlier this week a team of human rights experts at the United Nations
. . -
accused the US. of unfair treatment of detainees at GuantanamoBav. And ioininc us this
morning from Washington, D.C., two NBC news analysts, both fanner generals, Barry
McCaffrey who's returned from a trip to Iraq and Montgomery Meies, who recently
returned from, I believe, just yesterday,a visit to ~uanianamiB a y . ~ o o dmorning to
both of you...
Newscaster General Mcies, let me turn to you and GuantanamoBay. You were just
there at the invitation of the^.^. military. G k us your general tmp&sions. ~ e i & :
Well, we went to just about evcw comer ofthc place. Esconcd by Major General Hood,
the commander down there. There's been over $100 million of new construction.The
place is professionallyrun. I was impressed. Newscaster: isn't the debate though not so
much about exactly how prisoners are being treated there but more on whether or not
GuantanamoBay has become a symbol? A symbol to the Muslim world and in particular
a recruiment tool for terrorists because of what it represents? Meigs: Well, I think the
problem we have is in terms of the general treament of prisonersearly on in the war. Let
b e eive
- vou . .
, an exam~le.The Red cross iust snent six weeks there inletviewine
prisoners, going to every part of the prison. It's not an irretrievable situation. You're
going to have to have something like Guantanamo to hold these 500-odd terrorists who
-very seriouslydedicated people. It might as well be Guantanamo as just the
Department of Defense is going to tell the story ofwhat's really going on there. I think
they're starting to do a much better job of that now. Newscaster: General Meigs and
General McCaffrey, thanksvery much to both of you this morning.

MSNBC News Live .

6/25/2005 11:20:12AM
Ntincawr: Meanwhile GuantanamoBay isjust oneof the fronts on the war on terror
causing frustration Earlier 1 g a a forehand account from two retired generals. They now
serveas analysts
General Meigs. thanks for your pauence You returned from a visit to Camp Delta in
Guantanamo b y , asource ofa l a ofcontroversy What were your perceptionsthere"
Meigt: The place is very professionallyrun Theres been $100 million spcnt in
construction,which has brought the facilitiesup10 a very highstandard in terrns of
confinementfaci tty The confinementswere sound, similar to what we use in the
Department of Defense facility at Leavenworth. We talked with the senior interrogation
-
heads. and interroeations were beine done cnnwtlv nothine like what vou read the
log in "Time' ma&ine Looks t o k e like thefiegot that thing up andrunning
properly Newscaster: But how much were youactually able to see'' Theres a la of
controversy, because of the treatment of detainees during interrogations ... Amnesty and
OSD 2
Public Affairs Researchand Analysis
 The Red Cross are both saying the prisoners may have been abused and that they were
not allowed to see all that was going on. Were you able (confirm?) Meigs: Yes. I know
the commander. He was trying to show us everything
. - - a -good story to
because he's eot
tell. The Red Cross had j&t spent six weeks therc interviewingprisoners, getting access
toany pan of the facility And as I understand n, secondhand, their issues concern
individual cells for prisoners, as opposed to two or three prisoners in a cell. That is not
unusual in confinement facilities. in that the orisoncrscan talk to each other cell-to-cell.
el cetera. So I would say as time goes on, this story is going to abate. They are doing the
right thines at Guantanamo. Newscaster: I will have more on their thoughts on whether
the mediais giving America the accurate picture of what's really happening in the war on
terror. Meanwhile, a look at your weather ...

Command Sewant Malor Steven Greer

(Found Sunday Fox News clip; the Saturdayclip was not available)

-- Fox and Friends Sunday

6/26/2005 9:45:13 AM
Newscaster There has been a lot of debate about conditions at Gitmo. Our next guest
said it is not the detainees who are getting abused but the prison guards. In Washington
to explain is command sergeant Steve Greer. He went to the facility and he was there for
Defense SecretaryDonald Rumfeld. Sergeant, I saw you yesterday on shows and one of
the intercsnng things the points yo2 madewas you ate thefood thedetaineeseat and it is
better than foods that the actual guards eat I t even costs more Crcer: Yes That's
absolutely right. It is amazing the amount of steps that we have taken and put in place to
ensure there& a consistentl<humane treatmentfor all detainees. Some 52-0 cu&ntly
inside Gitmo. They've been there awhile. Newscaster: You said the people being treated
harshly are the guards themselves.What you are also saying. sergeant is that these
prisoners have not been broken in any way. Creer: Well, what I would tell you is that the
interrogation strategy down there is based on rapport building because that works. You
don't tonure detainees to gain information - it's critical information to fight the war on
terror. What they have done is designed a raDoon buildine based on certain activities. If
a
you are not com&mt you get less incentives.' I watched ~ i b y a nbeing interrogated -he
was eating Hostess donuts and reading a magazine from the coast of Libya. Another
ntcrrogation I watched (included) the detainee watching Martha Stewart Living and
drinking Seattle's Best Coffee. These are incentives given to detainees if they are
compliant ifthey continue to provide information to their interrogators.Newscaster we
have had e-mails and discussed this as a talking ooint earlv in the show. We have had
people e-mail in to say this is nothing but a dog and pony show and of courseconditions
i l l be good and respectful because you guys will DC brought down there and ever) body
knows it What do you say to that" G r w : That's nonsense. That B roll footage you ran
there - that s camp x-ray - tha thing has been gone for two years. There ha\e been
millions of dol-amof construction and operation Cost5 put m o the camps at Camp Delta.
Here's the deal The International Red Cross has 2417 access to detainees and hey have
md with eve? single detainee Not to mention, aq bod) who thinks that there is
something going on other than humane treatment there never served a day in the military
OSD 3
Public Affiire Research and Arnlylis

BY TIMES 7423
 because the soldiers and sailors i know would neverput up with it. They wouldn't allow
this- to
~ .~ eo on...
~ewscaster:Steve, this is what I want to know. We had interrogations- you witnessed
four ofthem. MYauestion is. if these interroeationsare indeed workine. arc we farther
along on the int&gence ua1P Are we any c&r -0 cracking ~l-Qaed;? Are we closer
to getting Osama bin Laden? Greer I don't know Yes. the, arc definitely uorkinc I
-
&ke tothe senior interro~ator a female who has been there two years. she said eVeW
single week they gain credible infannation that helps us uncover the structure of a
Canadian and associated networks. Not to mention Al-Qaedas pursun of WMD. terrorist
.
techniaues and skill sets the wav, thev recruit. recruitinn centers and locations as well as
ho'wi terrorist organizations used legitimate financial businesses as fronts to fund
terrorism. Newscaster: The interro~ationsyou viewed. what were they like? C r i e r it
was really hair-raisingto watch the interrogationsand to see an AI-Qaeia operative face-
to-face with an American interrogatorand interpreter.To see the cat and mouse game
that coes on... There was one individual who w& leanine forward in his seat ve& focused
and attentive, with the detainee watching every word he said, he was there two years and
he was a leader within the camp itself....Newscaster: thank . you for -joining- us today.
Take care.

Maior Central Donald W. Skevverd

(found CSN American Morning Newsano Friday live clip only: CNN Radio transcripts
not available)

-
CNN American Morning
6/27/2005 9:14:57 AM
Newscaster: On Friday, a croupof former military leaders, whoare now TV
commentators,also loured ihe prison Don ~ h e ~ ~ was a r dthere. He's in Washington this
morning for us. Nice to see you, General. You wen! Friday. How long were )ou there7
What did vou
, - . -
set to see? Shennerd: We were there the wholedav. w e cot to see the
entire detention facility, talk to the guards, see intenoganons, observe interrogations, and
talk to interrogators.We had pretty much free run of the placeto talk to anyone we
wanted to talk to. Newscaster What did you come away thinking? Shepperd: I came
away thinking what the congressionaldelegation said. What we saw in ~uantanamo
bears no resemblance to what we are reading in the present press Most of the people
writing about this, 1believe, have never been there. We have impressionsof an old
facility camp that was closed three years ago. We have a modem, well-constructed prison
guarded by very, very dedicated people, doing an extremely toughjob in the midst of a
very dangerouspeople. Newscaster: Did you talk to interrogatorsthere as well? What
kind of &stions did you have for them" ~ h e ~ ~ e We n i talked
: to interrogatorsand
watched them at work as well. A lot of peopie have the impression of people a
Guantanamo. people with no rights and being misucated This is consistent with what I
heard from the interrogationtraining in Ariwna, mistreatmentdocs not work. You can't
gel things out of people by torturingthem. All it does is screw things up. You have to
establish rapport over a long period of time, keep the interrogationsgoing and eventually
. . will -
peoole . infomation that vou then coordinatewith othernieces of
eive vou
information to bring you actionableintelligenceand that's what's happening now.
OSD
Public Affairs Researchand Analysis

NY TUBS 7424
 Newscaster: You had free run of the dace and that you eot to watch them at work pretty
much unfettered for a day. Isn't it fairio, well, if there's abuse going on it sure isn't going
to happen while the US.Congressional delegation is going through and certainly not
while former people who are now analysts on TV, are han~innout in town? I mean, it
seems to me, obviously you wouldn't & those things, 1thinkthat's fair 10 say, isn't it?
Shepperd: Absolutely. They put their best foot forward. In any prison situation you have
to continuallyguard against abuses. There have been abuses at Guantanamo in the past. I
think they have been fixed and they're constantlyon the alert for them. What we saw was
a bunch of dedicated wople that are really mad and feel attacked by the things coming
. .
out in the mint ~ r e s about
s .. . . - -
this Thev, sav: I don1 know where these oeoole are =mine
information. They haven't been here, and I haven't seen it going on. Newscaster: not only
coming out in the print press, ioumalistswho havent had a chance to visit, talking about
- -
~ m n e s t vinternational..thev,called Guantanamo modem eulae. the IRC said tactics were
tantamountto torture. IRC comes by frequently to check on prisoners. They're there all
. . .
the time. The same with Amnesty International. they are neovle there. These are not
journalists typing on computers in another state and never have left the country.
Shepperd: The InternationalRed Cross has access 24 hours a day 7 days a weekat
times and place of their choosing. You've got to realize that people think about
Guantanamo as in previous w m where you captured detainees and hold them until the
end of ihe war and release them. Guantanamois detaining people, keeping them off of
the battlefield, releasing ones not guilty and punishing and bringing10 military tribunals
ones that are. TTiat's what we saw going on. And I believe that's what's going on now,
after some rough starts. Newscaster: What do the interrogators tell yoiabout
informationthey're getting from folks who remain detained there? Shepperd: These .
people have been here, some, two, three years. Newscaster: Arc you still getting
valuable information?Shen~erd:Absolutelvves. . . You eet bits and pieces. New .people .
coming in all of the time, new faces. the) reconfirm newthings and co into databases line
things up. the) sa) we ve gotten a lot of infomanon to prevent attacks in this country and
other countries with the informationthey're eettme from these people and it's still
valuable. Former Air Force Major ~ e n e k Don l shepperdjoining us CNN military
analyst back from Gitmo. Thanks for talking with us.

Live from CNN

(6124105 2 5 0 p.m.)
Newscaster: We havejust established a line to GuantanamoBay to our military
analyst, General Don Sheppcrd. He arrived there as part of a trip put together by the
Pentagon in the wake of that human rights report that criticized conditions at the prison
for war detainees. General Shepherd is on the phone with us right now. What do you
see? Shepperd: I'm seeing a lot of rain right now. We're in the middle of a drenching
rainstorm. Every American should have a chance to see what ow group saw today. The
impressionsyou're getting from the media and from pronouncementsof people who have
not been here are false. What we're seeing is a modem prison system with dedicated
people, interrogatorswho know what they're doing. And people are being well treated.
We had a chance to tour the facility, eat what the prisoners eat, we've seen people being
interrogated. It's nothing like the impression from the media.
OSD
Public Affairs Research and Analysis
 'Memcailer: You said you got 10 talk lo the interrogatorsand guards. What have they
tola )ou7 M: The intmogalors, we have the opnions that people have been
mistreated l:^er>one we taliced to, and this is consistent with things I have known in the
past, every interrogatorwill tell you the key is a relationship based on respect.
Eventually, they will begin to talk and you get pieces of information you can fit togethei
with pieces of informationfrom somewhere else. Pressure doesn't work, disrespect
doesn't work, and torture is counterproductive. That came from everyone, men and
women who were interrogatorsdown here. Newscaster: This leads me to my next
question. Ofcourse, this was a trip organized by the Pentagon. Do you feel like you're
gelling full access7 Are you seeinga true picture? S u : That's a good qustion
The) are proud to have people down here10 see wha! were seeing Obviously, they're
going to put their best foot forward. and obviously, there will be abuses or people
disobcvine -
. -the regulations. I have been in prisons and iails in the United Stales, and this
is by far the most dedicated f o ~ I've
e ever seen in an) correctional institution anywhere
Newscaster. You mentioned jou havespoken with guards. What are they saymg7
Shepperd: Very interesting. I had lunch with one of the female guards and then1 talked
toa groupof male guards as well. I said, do you ever see anything that goes on that
.
resembles mistreatmentof orisonersor mistreatment bv. the orisoners of euards. They
say thcy'reon aim at all times. The\ re not armed when they're around the guarcfs (sic -
meant to say "prisoners") You don't do that mause ob\iously weapons can be taken
and used against you. But basically, they treat the prisoners firmly with respect. They
don't engage in a lot of banter with them. They say the prisoners do things that we've
heard about in the media. They sometimes get riled and will throw feces, they'll throw
. .
urine at the cuards, But this entire svstem is based uoon comoliance. In other words. if
you comply with the rules, you re gonna be treated wcil. you'll k given more privileges
just like any detention facility. and if you dont, your life is going to be much more
miserable than those who do. So, all ofthe guards seem to be very professional. None of
them that I have talked to have observed anwhine in the wav ofmistreatmat or anv
is
really bad incidents. The biggest thing they say violence between the prisoners .
themselves, A lot of the prisoners don't like each other. They're from different countries.
Newscaster: On the flioside. have vou had access to the ~risonersthemselves and what
are then conditions'7 shepperd: W; have not had access'to the prisoners themse vcs
We are told what they arc and we have seen all the facilities. We have watched
- .
intemeations. We just watched interroeationsof two hieh-value orisoners who have
been here for a considerable amount of :me. The facilitiesarc basic of prisons
anywhere. We have seen the cell said. They're 7 x 8 cells. They're clean, they have a
toilet in the facility. They have a water fountain in the facility. They have a bed. They
are given the Koran. They're given a mattress. They're given clothes, recreational things
such as playing cards, chess, checkers, that type ofthing. We have not had access to talk
to the prisoners and, again, that's one thing you've got to be very careful of. You want to
establish a prisoner relationship with the interrogators and not have that proliferated with
other people. Newscaster: Let's back up forjust a moment because you said you
watched an interro~ation.Emlain to us how that .olaved . out and were there any instances
of abuse or possib abuse? ~ h e p p e r dAbsolutei) noi. Basicall), youre ablelo obscne
interrogations. When you say. ' w e watched them,' I want to be very careful about how I
OSD 6
Public,AffairsResearch and Analysis

NY TIMES 7426
describe this. I do not want to describe how we watched it. Thev have various ways of
monitoring the interrogations.With the intmgat~onswe watched, there uerc
interrogators, translators who translated for the detainee,and there were also intelligence
people in there. They re basically asmng questions.They ask the same questions over a
long period of time They get infomation about the persons famil), where are they from,
who they know, what they do. All of the things you would want In a criminal
investination.These were cordial,.vcrv.. . - in TWO of
orofessional.There was wen lauehine
them Newscaster; Laughing in an interrogation7 Shepperd: Yes. It's not like the
impression that we have uhcre people bend people's arms and mistreat people. They're
twiw
, to establish a firm orofessionalreiationshio where thcv have resvect with each
other and can talk to each other. Yes, there was laughing and humor going on in a couple
of these things. I'm talking about a remark made where someone will smirk or lauah or
chuckle. he&aster: We appreciate your time a n d t h a t look inside ~ i t m o
with you being there. T h a n k you for that. We invite y o u to s t a y tuned.

Colonel Jack Jacobs

(Found t h e MSNBC clips and NBC Weekend Nightly News clip)

6/26/2005 9:35:56 AM:

Newscaster:. ..nossible orisonerabuse inGuantanamo Bav. lawmakers from both sides
of t k aisle tourthe site this weekend They say conditionskc improving forprisoncrs.
Military escorts look a house delegation through cellblocks, interrogation moms, and
troops' barracks. Our own militaryanalyst
, , wasalso given a tour of~uantanamoBav
earlier this week, retired army Co'oncl Jack lacobspins us with a li1t.e more insight.
First up, before we get lo GuantanamoBay, about that repon in the Sunday Times about
L S officials meeting with insurgent leaders, tell us a little about what that might mean.
Jiwbs: i thnk we're reaching out to try to find some solution to the problem of
continued violence by this groupofpeople that wecall collectively the insurgency,trying
to meet with these guys and figureout if there's some way that we can ameliorate the
situation. i can't g e t a h confirmationthat it actually took place. But 1 can tell you this .-
unless you meet with every one of these guys. including AI-Zarqaui's mob, you're not
going to get anythine.
~ewscaster:well. ~ecretaryRumsfeld has said it was Iraais meetinc with lnsureenl
leaders. Was there a difference there? Would they not do it with the U.S. military?
Jacobs: They might do it with the U.S.'s approval, but not with the US. or any
combination of those thinas. And it's oossible and niausible that the Iranis themselves
would meet wnh the insurgency leaders But ifth& re going to do it, they've got 10 gel all
of the insurgency leaders together The thing is so fragmented, unless they. get . them all to
agree it's not going to work.
Newscaster Now to GuantanamoBay. Tell us about the cells themselves also where the
prisoners are detained. What are they like?
Jacobs: Well, the older cells. of course, are older. But the new cellblocks, which a new
cellblock is patterned directly after a high security prison inindiana, and it's the state of
OSD
Public Affairs Research and Analysis
 the ari facility.The cells are very, very good indeed. Tlie detainees have the capability 10
talk 10 other detainees and inmates They can do things like play checkers with thcm and
soon. wen in the hieher securitv blocks. It'savew nice facili~.to be honest with vou. If
you've got to be in prison, it's not a bad place to be
Newscaster: We're seein%a lot ofhieh-~mfile visits to Guantanamo Bay is it part of a
PR ploy? We now recognize that we've been watching pictures from three years ago,
since abandoned. No* Camp Delia, ancntirely different location in that facility in
Guantanamo Bay. What's going on here?
Jacobs: Well. 1think the Defense
- Dc~aroncnt
- has been wav behind the eieht ball. This
story had been building up over a period of time. You said yourself, the x-ray pictures a
three years old and we've still been showing them. The Defense Department has wailed,
instead of getting ahead of the story and saying, why dom you come on down and take a
look a1 this thing We'll show you what its really like, bul has waited until now to do it
-
Long overdue, lthink that the story the story is one in which we can get agood view of
what's actually taking place. There's nothing necessarily to be ashamed of. The facilities
there are actually quite good. And the story is an interesting and important one that the
Defense Department should have shown us before. They need to learn from this, that it
doesn't make any sense to wait, get everybody down there, show them the stuff at the
very beeinnine, and they would be lots better off.
~&sca& we spoke to two retired Generals yesterday. Alex just spoke to two
lawmakers who said conditions there, and you yourself saw that conditions thereare
better or food. Does that mean. however that. the refutation the image. - . has not been loo
tmisheo~thatthis camp should in fact stay open7 '
Jambs: We.1. the reputation is tarnished, period. I don't know if you're going lo be able
to imomve the rwuktion in the Islamic world. no matter what vou do. At the end of the
day. the intci igence vame of Guantanamo is so high, and J'\c seen bmh unclassified and
classified briefings down there But I can tell you that the intelitgence value is so high
that it makes no ;ense whatsoever to close it down. And we're still getting information
from detainees who have been there for three years,

60612005 10:38:56 AM
Newscaster: Retired Army Colonel Jack Jacobs, welcome as always.
Jacobs: Good morning.
Newscaster A report in the "Sundav Times" of London. about meetines between U S
officialsdisputed by Donald ~urnsfeld,and Iraqi insurgents. Any way you slice that, it's
still problematic because the insurgency is not a coherent group, could you tell us about
that?
Jacobs: 1tried to check tosee whether or not it was true and so far, nobody's talking
about it. It's plausible that we will have, that we would have had meetings with these
- . But one of the points that vou mention. that it's difficult. if vou cai\ assemble
KUYS.
everybody who is participating in this very fragmented insurgency, we call it an
insurgency like it's one centrally-organizedthing, it's not..,
Newscaster: Let's go to Guantanamo Bay. The respect or disrespect of Islam. Now we
talked earlier about some of the cells and conditionsthere. What about Islam itself?Did
you get any sense of how fair it is there?
OSD 8
Public AffainResearch and Arnlysil
 Jacobs: Sure Not only what happened before, and people make mistakes and you're sure
mistakes have k e n made in the past The law of large numbers sa)s e\atually
somethinebad may have happened. I can tell you right now that they go really. from my
standpoint,way out of theirway to accommodate lsiam Rituallv slaugheredmeat is
flown in from Florida. The meals that they ate, I can tell you that you can't eat that much
food, to be honest with you. The each, each detainee eels a prayer me,prayer oil, prayer
beads He's got a niche.m his cell for his Koran, so thai it d'oes~tinadvenmt~ygel
desecrated.Every conceivablehorizontal surface you canthim of has got an arrow
.
stenciled on it. Any. place that a detainee can be, interroeationroom. out in the exercise
yard in the cell, to show which way 10 t u n which way is Mecca, so he can pray
Newscaster: Are these changes" Is thisan updating in the system'' Because the reports,
- . . -
remember the loe stow about how the 20th hijacker was treated three vcars ago or two
years ago.
Jacobs: That was a long timeago.
Newscaster: Do vou have a sense that this is newlv imolcmented?
Jacobs: This is the sense, I think some of thechanges,~helarge majority of them have
been evolutionary,the kind of conditions we have there now, were not. were not existing
three years ago. They've been changing for the better. And I think one of the reasons
, we've done it is less because of the international concern about it, but because you get
more information out of these guys ifyou treat them properly. And they're properly
treated and we're getting lots of information from them.Informationwe didnt get before.
Newscaster: Better with honey than vinegar.
Jacobs: It worksevery time.

Newscaster: Meanwhile, we'll get insight from our own military analyst, also given a
tour of OuantanamoBay earlier this week Reined Army Colonel Jack Jacobs, welcome
as alwavs
.Jacobs: Good morning again.
Newscaster: Tell us a little bit -- earlier you talked about the cells and the food. Tell us
about specificallyabout the interrogationsyou were able to witness.
Jacobs: We saw a number of intcrro~ations.Some fairlv hieh ~rofileand extreraelv
dangerous detainees. And they used different techniques. The whole idea is to get closer
to the detainees, so he can feel comfortablewith you and therefore give you the
information you require. You're not goine to eet any mod information from somebody
!ou beat u p . ~ e ' sgoing to tell you whatever he thinksyou want to hear so that you'll .
slop So they've been working hard over the last few years to gain the trust of these
detainees Some of them are vcw. . very. hmh-level
- . .
and hard-core oeoole. And it works, it
works. 1 saw one, one detainee. whenever thcrcs a session. he won't talk unless he gels
his stuff What's his sluff' A T w x candy bar, you can1 make this up. A cup of Seattle's
best coffee and the late'it edition of "" Manha Stewart Livine."" and then he'll start

~ews&r: And is that because Martha Stewart...

Jacobs: 1 haw no idea Are you establishingreal tmsl with these people, tfyou havean
interrogatorand analyst, who over time, develops trust with the detainees. .
OSD 9
Public AffairsResearch and Analysis

KY TIMES 7429
N w s c ~ t wIs that a change in a tactics' We had heard beforc the complaints ofthe FBI
agents who were sent to vanous locations who witnessed military intenogaiionsor
perhaps those by the contractorsor reservistsin Iraq. Who at one point were doing some
of them? Is that a change in tactics?
Jacobs: 1 think in some areas it's a change. In many areas, it's not. Because the American
military. people
. . recoenize
. . if you
that ifyou. . establish trust you're
. ming
- .to get . the
information you require ultimately But I think overall it s a recognition that it's going to
take nme and you have to establish a working relationship with the detainee. There's one
interroeator I saw. who is a vew motherly t v k . And thisis the interroeator who finely
got ~ h i ~ o detainee
ne lo spi.1 ev&hing because he felt some sort of close re:ationship
with th!s woman, who over time developed a personal intellectual relationship with him,
. .
Newscaster: Did vou see what vou exvected to see when vou took this tour?
Jacobs: No. I'm somethingofa skeptic. And a doubter. I've always been, I was very
surprised to see what I saw I expected the facilitiesto be very rustic. They arc not, they
arein very good shape and they h e in neu high-tech contai&mt cells. I did nfflexpect
civilians to be interrogatingthe prisoners I didn't expect to see the little contact with
military people and detainees

L b t e n n n t Colonel Cordon Cucullu

(Found the Fox News clip on/) Radio transcript^ for KKLA Frank Postore. A1 Rondel
Show Greg Allen Show, KTFK Crane & Smash and True Nonh Radio with Laurie
Morrow nor available)

*(Fox a d Friends First)

6/27/20056:23:12 A M
Newscaster: Because he's just back from Guantanamo Bay. He spent a lot of time in the
militarv. Former Green Beret. Colonel. thank . . -
vou for ioinina us. What did vou see when
you got over to Gitmo" Cucullo: Gooc morning. Brian. 1 saw an impressivesituation
there Wc'tc talking about a very smooth-working, operatingprocedure thai may have
had problems in the beginning but is now up and running. The facility isquite adequate
. .
for what the mission is. And the WOODS were extraordina& im~ressi-vefrom too to
bottom. 1 had an opportunity to dine with them, to work with them, and it really was
amazing. Brian: First off, do the troops realize the amount of pressure and focus is on
--
Gitmo? Cucullu: Oh, it's unbelievable. They get you know, they get Fox News down
there. They get emails; they talk to their friends and relatives here in the stales. And
they're quite aware. not only ofthe overall situation,but they're extremely aware when
you hear off the wall comments by people like Senators Kennedy and Durbin, that attack
them personally. and the great thing is that rather than hurl their morale, what this really
does is it raises the bar for them They say we're gomg to be even better than we were
before. iust to move to these BUYS how nrofessional we are. Brian: In tenns of what vou
ohserved firsi-hand, what do you knownow thai you didn't know before you walked&
to the island? Cucullu: Well. quite a few things, Brian The first thing 1 know for sure is
that there's no torture going on down there. And that these people arc being - kept
. in a way
that's very humane, probably more so than even your average maximum security prison-
OSD ID
Public AffairsResearchand Analysis
 in the United Stales. The other thing is that surprised me is the fact that we're still gelling
what we would cal actionable, usable intelligence infomation intmgations with these
- . and that I hadn't expected. and so I was very
guys, .
. oleased to see that. because what it
shows is that the process is working and that there rea ly is a reason, other :han the fact
that these are very evil terrible people, who keep this system working Brian: The FBI
report that says they used does chained to the floor, forced to BO to the bathroom on
themselves, everything like that, do you understand that that i s proven true, but that was
the old system or is that considered a false report? Cucullu: I dont know what
hamned in the oast. and it's touch for me to evaluate that canicular rewrt. althoueh it
sounds a bit hyperbolic to me. We went through several of the camps, we actually
watched several ongoing interroeationsand we had a chance to Talk to the troops on a
one-on-one basis over ameal. which was a detainee'smeal. it nmved to me that there's
absolutely nothing like that going on now In fact, many of us were a bit shocked at the
leniency that the command is showing toward the prisoners, the detainees, because in
many cases the real abuse going on down there that we dont hear about is that every day
when these guards, our young men and women go into the blocks, they're assaulted by
the detainees throw feces. unne, semen. spit. They're vilified. threatened; their families
are threatened with death If they go into the eel! &th these guys, the)'re personally
atlacked They try to scratch their eyes out. pull theirmouths andstuff, and break their
hands. It's very dangerous,and these kids are very brave and professional for puttingup
with it and not reacting in a way that maybe p u and I would if we put up with the same
threat. Brian: When you talk about interrogations, you say relationships are being built.
-
Why? Cucullu: Because they feel that you gel it'slike the old the old saying, you
gel more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. These people are working with them
over along period of time, the interrogatorsare establishinga relationship with the
prisoners, and what they're finding is that in many cases,it's an ego thing, Brian. These
detaineesareproud of what they did, they're proud of the fact that they have tried to kill
Americans, and Westernersand will do so in the future. They brae about it. Thw ooenlv .
boast about it. And they - we'refindingout thingsabout finkcine, about Al ~ a e d a
organizationsand training, about operationsthat took place in the past and may happen in
the future, so this is all - i s essential for the security of the United States that we continue
the intmcarion mocess down there. Brian: Last auestion. there's no wav to ever show
you ift-icrc was something to hide in Gimo. the average person watching at home says
(they) never show )ou what was wrong at Giono. Wha' makes )ou think that you got ihe
real story? Cucullu: Because we saw hundreds of oeoole. we saw almost everv cell and
confin&ent facility down there. It's simply impossiblk, Brian, to have aconspiracy on
that level and that magnitude. There were 10 of us along; we were speaking to the troops
over a meal. If somebody had a comolaint or a oroblem. thev would have indicated it to
one of us and we would have been able 10 share that This business about these vast
conspiraciesis really overstated. Plus we do what we're looking for You know, we're not
rookies at this, and we've inspected military units before. You can tell the pride, the
honcstv. and the pride that comes from the& troops Brian: Thanks againforjoining us
CucuUu: Great tn be on with you. Brnn: In and out of Cuba. not an easy thing to do.

OSD I1
Public Affairs Research and Analysis

MI TIMES 7431
OSD
Public Affairs Research and Analysis
From: ~ed~abbing>'13I13B
sent:
To: lmcmerney i s h a m Glenstlle77

SubtoM;
roberthscales .
TAS Slippary Clinton
CW, OASD-PA, WSSInter-

Guys: I've been up daily at 0430, to do a radio show downtown. Sony I didn'tget it out earlier

The American Spectator

From: Shep~onald@33n3I
Sent: Wednesdau June 29 2005 1-39AM
TO: ~awre~&iiailas. OASD-PA Ruff, ~ n cSES.
, OASD-PA- rnatthew.waxrnantZd
matt waxrnan(5fnro3l ,
Guantanamo visit

Gitmo, In and Out

It was a quick trip, a long day, down and back, 7 hours in a militaiy jet, plus all day viewing the
detention center - ten of us, media military analysts, defense writers, think tankers, all invited to Guanlanamo
Bay, Cuba to hear briefings, view the detention center, visit with guards and interrogatorsand watch
-
int&ogations. Did we drink the "government Keel-Aid?" of course, and that wasthe purpose of the trip
which was put together in response to recent press criticisms that the governmentand DoD consider grossly
unfair. fallaciousand mostlv written bv oeoole who have not visited the "new" Camn Delta which has replaced
the old Camp X-ray, closedthree yearsago and often still seen in TV footage used by the networks. ~ e a i i z i n ~
that a one-day visit does not an expert make, and that the government was obviously going to put its best foot
forward lo eel out its messaee. and further that former military visitors are more likely to a&- with eovernment
a
views than more approprl&ly skeptical press, we launchedwith gusto into our visit.

One must understand a w u ~ l eof thines about Gitmo - in the middle of a war. it isn't meant to be a
replication of the U S civilianjusti& system,but there i s a well-defined process, a Combatant Slams Review
Tnbuna (CSRT), that in layman's terms acts much itkc a cross b a w m a civilian arraienmeniand a grand~ury
DroCeSS - detainees are sent to Guantanamoafter the CSRT issues a "reason to believe"thev are amone ~aliban
k d Al Qacda terrorist trainers, bomb makers, UBL bodyguards, recruiters, trainers and fin&cien, andtheir ilk
While incarcerated, each detainee has an Administrative Review Board (ARB - similar to a parole board) at
least once a year that reviews inmate status and makes a recommendation to wntinue detention, release, or
transfer, usually back to the country of origin.

70,000 detainees have been captured in the Global W a r on Tenor. Most have been released. About 800
have been sent to Gitmo with 235 having been released or transferred and another 6 1 awaiting release. At least
12 ofthose released have returned to the battlefield. beine ca~turcdagain. or killed. Guantanamo is about
keeping"the wars of the wont" offthc battlefield until the GWOT iso\cr, using interrogations to cam
mtelligence that will prevent attacks in the U S and elsewhere,and finally, subjecting those suspected ofcnmes
to military commissions (tribunals!. Attribunals. which are essentiallymilitary trials. the accused is presumed
innocent and has access 10 legal representation.Four tribunals arc in progress L t h another dozen lik& to begin
soon in a modem courtroom consmctea much like you would find in any Amencan courthouse There will be
more tribunals. The death penalty is a possibility. Predictions are it will be used sparingly, ifat all.

The view that detaineesare held incommunicado without nghts is wrong One may disagree with the adequacy
of the system, but there is indeed a system desiiyrcd to protect and guarantee individual rights. One federal court
agrees the system is adequate, one disagrees. This must be worked out before tribunals can proceed apace. There
may be further changes in the system. -

Facilitiesat Guantanamo resemble a modem state, or federal prison with semi-oennanent buildines
There are detentioncells for groups and individuals, and maximum security cells for high risk or non-compliant
prisoners. Showers and exercise areas are also maintained along with medical facilities and facilitiesfor
handicapped. Medical care is likely the best many have see in their lifetime. Some have never had any dental
5

BY TIMES 7434
care. Interestingly, despite significant health problems and war injuries, no detainee has died at Guantanamo.

Food is good - I ate one meal, a vegetarian rod,composed of garban20 beans, corn. potatoes and pita
bread. It was *ell-seasoned and tasty Detainees are served HUM meals a day

We observed four intemgalions of "high value Bigots"- really bad guys. We talked at lenglh with
interrogatorswho told us mistreatmentsimply docs not work and thai one must establish rapport wnh detainees
over many interrogationsto get useful information. Almost everyone eventually talks and information gained is
recorded and correlated in data bases. A classifiedbriefing showed us the information obtained on Al Qaeda
operations worldwide. It was amazing. Even after two-three years of internment many detainees are still
providing useful information.

Early allegationsof mistreatmentat Guanlanamo and elsewherehave been investigated and some substantiated.
Those found guilty have been punished. Gitmo has come a long way in training and supervisingguards and
nterroeators to ensure firm but fair treatmentof detainees. Everyone knows the rules and is expected to follow
them. Infractionsby US.personnel are taken seriously

The guards with whom we talked were a mixture of Military Police fromall services and other skills that
had been messed into service with on the iob framinc. Thev looked sham and seemed well-motivated. Guards.
-
interrogaiorsand staff all expressed angerit press charges ahout systematic mistreatmentat Gitmo they all '
said, it simply
. . doesn't happen. Guards were for the most oM Wune kids who seemed serious about their iobs
and proud of what they were doing. We saw no evidenceof mistreatment, nor would one expect to on aplanned
visit, but guardsand interrogatorsrepeated - tonure and roughing people up simply doesn't work and in fact is
-
not only illegal, btt counlcr-productive- U S prison guards will !el. )ou thesame thing 1 belieie them 1don't
think s ~ t e ~ a tmistreatment
ic could occur at ~uanta&o now- it is too tightly run.

We did not talk to detainees, rules prevent it, but the Red Cross does- they have access 24/7 at times
and places of their choosing. All detainees are registered with the ICRC and their home countriesand families
have been notified. They can send and receivemail. Had we talked to detainees, I suspect we would have heard
-
what their training manuals teach - tell people you have been tortured the Americans are soft, without stamina
or stomach for this fight. Keep your mouth shut, tell them nothing and you will be out in two-three years (good
guess).
1 think GuanIanmnois a well-run place. I think much has been done to correct earlier shortcomingsin a very
difficult environment. A m y BrigadierGeneral Jay Hood. the commanderof Joint Task Force. Guantanamo is
m> ~ t n dofguy - a no-nokense&ldierlhal is on w p of the sttuauon, knows his troops. trains, monvates and
supervisesthem well and expeas them 10 follow the rules

I wish verv American could visit Guanianamo- 1think thev would be nroud of our trooos and comforted
that weare doingour best to treat agroupof very dangerous people fairly whiie keeping them okthe battlefield
and gaining intelligencethat will keep them from killing others. Until this war is over. I don't know where else
you would do these difficult tasks better. Calls to close Guamanamo are mis-fiuidcd The pall of Abu Ghmib
hangs o m our heads. The damage done 10 the US. image by a handful of poorly-trainedand supervised jerks
isn't being repeated at Guanlanamo- kwp 11 open. keep aclose waich and keep those dangerous guys off the
battlefield until this war is over - that's what Guantanmo is about and I think they do it well

Did we drink loo much Kool-Aido I don't know, but when I am in doubt, I try to foil back and rely on
common sense and experience-after almost 40 years in the military, what I saw made sense - good, sincere,
dedicated ocople doine about what I would do in a tough situation if I were in their shoes - 1&comforted
~uantan&o isn't a "ciub-~ed"as some have bant&, bin is surely isn't a "gulag."

HY TIMES 7435
È TIMES
From: CIV, OASD-PA
Sent: Tuesday, June 28.2005 7:17PM
To: OASD-PA: Ruff,Eric, SES, OASD-PA; Lawrence, Dallas. OASD-PA;
CIV. OASD-PA
Subjçcl FW Greer on Gitnm

£
'
SJGF lB0C.m(3
wanted to make sure you all saw this1
thanks
aa
ÑOrtglna Message-
From: Steven 3. Greer CSM (Ret) [maitasteven $

Sent: Tuesday, June 28,2005 6:44 PM

To: Steven Greer
Subject: G i w on Gltmo

Vacancy rt Ouuttanamo Bay, Cuba

Steven J. Greer

26 June 2005

"Club Gitmo?" Perhaps Rush Limbaugh had a crystal ball when he compared the ~nantanamoBay
Detention Factiny to luxurious Club Med resorts. Not to k outdone by the conservativemato critic.
Senators Dick Durbin and Robert Bvrd aazed into their own crystal balls. What thev saw is chillino -
torture chambers, guiag tactics, humanrights violations! ruth be told, ~uantanamois neither a "
resort nor gulag.

'We conduct confinement and interrogationof the worst of the worst terrorist operatives," remarked
Brigadier General Jay Hood, Commander. JTF-Guantanamo Bay Sound pretty straightforward? Nol
hardly. Hood and his professional task force of soldiers. sailors, coaslauardsman. and civilians
ooerate under increased scrutinv of late. Thev soend an enormous amount of time resoondina to
internationalpressures ~ninforried cuticisms:ano irresponsib e journalism "Every crazy story
impacts our mission said Command Sergeant Major Angel Febles No aoubtl Camp Delta .stied
up 2-3 times a week conductina " d w 8. oonv" shows for VIP's and international media. Nonetheless.
Hood and company remain stoic, focused, and unwavering.

8
SinceSeptember 11,2001, more than 70.000 enemy combatants have been captured in Afghanistan
and Iraa. The majority released or confined in facilities abroad. Onlv a fraction of suspected Taliban
or Al Qaeda asso&t& have "checked-in."reanino the Dieasurns and comforts associated wkh
Camp Delta, Perks such a s i c i cream, a&&ti&ed &sl,pr&ri rugs, checker board games,
volleyball, and state of the art medical care. Detainees -political correctness for extremists who wish
-
to kill us eat three squares a day, peruse Martha Stewart Living, and play soccer. Sound like
torture?

-
So what ao reasonable people make of reports of wide spread abuse? One recent delegationof
-
military ana ysts learned first hand abuse is pervasivean0 indiscriminate. InOiv.duak are being spit
on. head butted. peppered with feces and urine on a weekly basis. Unfortunatelyfor Durbin. and
Byrd, the recipientsof such vulgar treatment are not detainees; they are guards

American Soldiers and Sailors.

Americans shouldn't be at all surprised. Camp Delta isn't home to alter boys -there are bomb
makers. terrorist facilitators. UBL bodv-wards. and would-be suicide bombers. Some 800 total
unlawfi enemy combatants have beindetainea at Guantanamo. All are Talioan orA Qaeda
assoc ales Several hJndred have been re eased or transferred oursuant to tne Combatant Status
Review Tribunal and Administrative Review Board process. cumbersome processesakin to working
a rubrics cube blindfolded.

Approximately 520 detainees remain at Camp Delta. Of these, 10D'are suspected of possessing
high-valueintelligence information. These "magnificent" 100 are interrogated routinely. About 35%
are comoliant. the balance combative. hostile. and uncoooerative. Think we torture these folks? Not
hardly. Peering through single-sided glass one gets a sense of just how cunning, dangerous, and
elusive this enemv can be. Yet we don't use torture? The most effective wav to draw credible
informationis tnrougn rappon bu Idmg. not force" quipped a senior femae analyst with 3 years at
Guantanamo One detainee favoreo nostess oonuts eating a dozen (with nis eft hano) wnile his
interrogatorpatiently askeo questions Anotner flipped through pages of Owers World magame
(hes from thecoast of Libva and eniovs the water) Whileanother carefullv siooed Seattle's Best
Coffee. Incentives- a small price topay to save lives.

Interrogationis a cat and mouse game. "Ifs a chess match; both Interrogatorand detainee are
hanging on every word." remarked one senior interrooator. Analysts at C a m Delta continueto
receive informalon that saves ives and uncovers Al Qaeda networn Every oeta i e e has a story to
teli an0 is a potent al treasure trove of information So w w manes a detanee want to tak?
"Rapport DuilainQ tnats the strategv that we emolw an0 its effective' saia General Hood And
Hood takes this strategy seriously.~orexample,deiainees are free to practice their Muslim faith.
Hood ordered small, black arrows painted on each bunk and in all common areas. .the arrow points
toward Meccal He also ordered the playing of the Muslim "call to prayer" over the camp loudspeaker
5 times per day. Sound like a Gulag?

The result of Such pampered cam is mdeniable More then 4,000 reports capture information
provided by OetaineeS, much of it corroboratedby other intelligence reportnq This unpreceoented
bodv of kniwiedae has exoanded our understandina of At ~ a i d anda other associated networks.
any detainees have admitted c ose relationships to senior A1 Oaeda leadership -providing valuable
lnsiahts into the structure trainina qoals an0 financial mechan sms Guantanamo Bay . 1s our on#
strategic interrogationcenter andiGmperative to prosecutingthe war on terrorism.

Lessons learned are advancina the ooerationalart of intelliaenm and deveiooment of strategic
interrogat on6 doctrine. Moreover, they speak to the profesiionalismexhibited by hunoreasof men
and women deployed to Cuba to protect our freedoms. Not quite a resort and certainly not a gulag.
Derhaos Limbauoh. Durbin. and Bvrd have time to visit? The sian reads. "Vacancy at Guanianamo
Bay, Cuba," and~eneralHood a i d company are gracious hosts.

Author Sawn J. Granr is a Professorat American MilitaryUniversityand feltow with the NationalDefense Council
Foundation. Ha recently visited Camp Delta.

htt~://www.theoreerfoundation.omWe The Peoole (Thank You) CD Album ...tribute to the ~ ~ W D S I

Steven J. Greer. CSM, Rat

steven I : ¥ssaa
Add me to vow address book Want a sionafure like this?

MY TIMES
From: CIV, OASD-PA
Sent: 28,2005 7:14 PM
To: CIV, OASD-PA
Subject: ConferenceCall WEDNESDAY
Anachnwnte: Microsoft Photo Editor 3.0 Picture; Picture (Metafile)

MEMORANDUM
To: Retired Military Analysts

From: Dallas Lawrence

Director, Community Relationsand Public Liaison
Office of the Secretary of Defense

Date: June 28,2005

Re: Conference Call with Senior DoD Officials

We invite you to participate in a conferencecall, TOMORROW,June 29,2905from 5:OOp.m to S:45p.m

Topics to be discussed are: the role of medical professionals in detainee operations,

Participants in this conferencecall will be: .Dr.William Winkmwcrder,assistant secretary of defense for health
affairs and Cmdr. Cary Ostergad, detainee hospital commander, JTF GTMO. Your host forthis call will be
Dallas Lawrence.

To participate in this conferencecall, please dial and ask the operator to

connect you to the Analysts conference call.

- - -
We hope you are able to participate.

MY TIMES 7440
 Am& Supcorn You
Our.Ul1hry.V- 6 IT-

MY TIMES
From:
Sent:
I . USMC, OASD-PA
Monday, June 27,2005 5:39 PM
To; Ruff. Eric, SES, OASD-PA
Sublwt: Darby Photos Strategy

Attachments: I C a p t . USMC. 0ASD-PA.vcf

Ideas that surfaceddunng a discussion with General Montgomery Meigs and Colonel Jack Jacobs'
-
-Provide tnfofphotos to all Network Presidents specifically Steve Cappas Senior Vice President
-No prime time press conference by SecDef
-Press avail after giving lnfofphotosto all majors In a setting most comfortableto SecDef
-Give "exclusive" to Wash Post

NY TIMES
..
From:
Sent:
e . AFIS-HWIA
M o n d a y , 7 2 7 0 0 5 4:21 PM
To: Dl RIB Larry, CIV, O S D Barter, Allison CIV. OASD-PA; Rllft, Eric. SES,OASD-PA;
Cc:
A
Whitman Bryan, SES, OASD-PA
Lawrence, Dallas, OASD-PA: ,
OASD-PA' Merritl RoxieT. CAPT, O
. Cam. USMC,
AFIS-HQICNS;-
~~~BBAFIs-HQTCNS
Subject: Transcriptsof Commentsby Military Analysts who visited GuanBna mo

Attachnwnte: Gitmo Military Analyst Transcripts O62705.doc

GItmo Military
Analyst Transa..

Transcripts attached.
Thanks to Dallas Lawrence for the air times/info he provided - much
appreciated.
Pram: Lawrence,Dallas. OASD-PA
sent: Monday, June 27,2005 2:41 PM
To: Barber. Allison. CIV, OASD-PA, Ruff. Eric, SES, OASD-PA
Subjiicl; FW GITMO article

well written from one of our frlday Quests,..

ÑOriglna Message-
From: Gordon Cucullu [n!dllto:gordon@IBI0ÑÑÑl
Sent Monday. June 27,2005 1152 AM
To: Paul all& Uiwrence, Dallas, OASD-PA
Subject: GITMO article

Here is my firat GITMO piece, ran thismorning on Front Page Magazine.Link'

h ~ . / / w , f i o n ~ m / A ~ ~ c b ~ e ~ ~ l c l 18572 e , a s ~ ? l D =

I did a Fox & Friends hit at 0620 this morning. Good emphasis on 1) no torture, 2) detaineesabuse guards. 3) continuing
source of vital Intel

B e n Sordon

MY TIMES
From:
Sent:
To:

Cc:
suqect: Casey mil an call transcript today anached

Aikhnm&. 06-27-05 Gen Casey Iraq doc

Just finishedfirat draft of Gen. Casey's milttary anafystcall from this morning.Call was o n background
From: Hemingway Thomas, BG, 000 WC
Sent: Monday, June 27.2005 504 AM
To: Ruff. Enc, SES, OASD-PA
Subject; Fw Jed Babbm

Attachments: FeatherPen.gItheaderLdlTopPrintEmaljpa

Here is the Baobm column i mentionedon our trrp south

Tom

Thomas L. Hemingway,Brig Qen, USAF

LegalAdvisor to the AppointingAuthority
Office of Milrtaiy Commissions (DoD)
Roomm CM3

The Gitrno Girls

By Jed Babbin
Published 2/14/2005 12:06:1SAM

-
Legend -not history tells us that Gen. John "Black Jack" Pemhingquelled a Mom uprising in
the Philiwlnes in about 1911 bv buwino insurrectionists' bodies with slauohtered Dias. The Muslim
-
insurgents supposedly gave upafter a few such incidents because acGraing to religious aw -
this won 0 prevent tneir dead from reacning neaven in the 1935 flick Lwes of a Benqa! lancer, tough
guy Gary Cooper threatens a Muslim prisoner witn this treatment, and the man immediately oreaks
down. uivino COODthe location where the bad auvs are hoidina his colonel's son hostaae The
questi& n& ar ses How. if at a1 can we useihe religious oeiefs of a prsoner to break down his
resistance ana extract information7

We are in the first stares of another "Drisoner abuse" mess. Both the Washinoton Post and Maureen
Dowd are suffer ng a severe case of the vapors over revetatons that female interrogators at me
Guantanamo Bay, Cuba terronst detention facility are sexually taunting Diisoners aiming at Muslim
rel~g~ousbe1efs to pressure tne nard cases to break Tne t tie of Dowd s -anuaw 30 m, '"Tonure
Chicks Gone Wild." shows vou where this aroument is aoina. It is usuallv sufficient t h a t i d is
against somethingto provewe should be forit but. in this case, we need to parse it out a bit before
we make a decision.

Accord~nglo the Febrbary 10 Washmgfon P ~ s&j, t Yemale lnterrcg8toIs regula4y violated Musinn
taooos about sex and contact with women The women rubbed their bodies against the men. wore
SKimpy clothes in front of them. maae sexualiy expi crt remams and toucneo them provocai8wly
33

BY TIMES 7446
 u
Dowd s column picked up on another pant saying that the S is "allowing its female interrogators
to try to make Muslim men talk in l a t e q h t sessions featuring sexualtoucning, displays of fake
menstrual boo0 ana parading in miniskirt tight T-shirt bra and thong underwear Which minus the
fake b ood IS not a lot different from what Monica was aoing with Ln' Buiy in the Ova! Off ce

There are two issues here. First, is it beyond the pale to use a person's religious beliefs against him
in interrogations?Second, are sexually aggressive interrogationtechniques that stop short of Sexual
abuse and torture either illegalor immoral?

Start with the motivation of the terrorists. They believethat they are serving their religion by their acts.
There's no use in arguing the point witn them The Koran. as they interpretit, requires holy war
against tne Amenwn aggressor wno comes to the Middle East to destroy their religion That is their
aogma their belief that is so deeply fell that they are eager to sacrifice their lives in its service It s
7. this belief that strengthens them. and makes them highly resistantto normal interrogationtechniques

We rule out torture. Our l a w ana tne InternattonalConvention Against Torture tell us what the @@
are. Nothing says we cannot attack the reliefs tnat the terrorists hold most dear. No one wouM
auestion seidino a touoh black FBI aoent in to auestion a Ku Klux.Klan member harshlv. Punino
someone that the prisoner fears and reviles in control of the interrogation is a very good step t&rd
shattering the prisoner's mental defenses. It's one of the best ways to succeed in an interrogation.

Mr. Jim Guirard has been fightirg valiantly. and so far in vain. to get us to start calling the terrorists
"mufs.doon; tne Arabic worn for a criminal whose crimes violate tne laws of Islam Its a cetter abel
than "jihadisf - holy warrior - which honors theenemy wrongly. Would it be an attack on a
orisoner's reliaion to force himto wear a iumDsuil that had "mufsidoon" oainted on the back In lame
eners? 0f course not Its not an attac~onthe religion of Is am, it's an attack on the prisoner's
-
motivation to be a terrorist Puttino a scantily ciao woman ,ntemaator in charae of tne interrogationis
really no different. These arent ~ u s l i mholy men. They're outlaws and we need to show them that we
have no respect f a them or their perversion of Islam.

What went on at the Abu Ghraib prison went far beyond sexual provocation. In many cases, it was
sexual abuse. That is whv Pvi. Lvnndie Enoiand and some of her oak will be doina hard time in iail.
But where do we draw the line? And how do we prevent interrogatorsfrom crossing it7

Our civilian society has become overly sensitizedto sexual harassment. The career of a male boss -.
civilian or milftaw- can be ended auicklv by an incautious remark to a female subordinate. We
cannot afford toallow this heiohten'ed sensitivitvto control the interrooation of terrorist orisoners
whose knowledge we must obtain to save lives:

Should it be forbidden for a female interrogatorto rub her breasts against a prisoner and then laugh
at the result? Should she be prohibited from wearing a thong in his presence and taunting his
manhood? Ithink not. Should we require female interrogatorsto do these things? Certainly not.

Where the line can be drawn in interrogationof terrorist prisoners is unclear. Sexual abuse: rape,
forced sexual acts of any nature, are abhorrent an0 must continueto be prohibited. Below that
threshold, we must guard against establishinglimits that are false, and can prevent successful
interrogations.

TAS contributingeditor JedBabbin Is the authoroflnside the Asylum: Why the UN and Old
Europe Am Worse Than You Think (Regnety, 2004).

HY TIMES 7447