Lamar Murry Hearing Transcript

1 IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO
3 HONORABLE PETER J. BUSCH, JUDGE PRESIDING
4 DEPARTMENT 622
5 -o0o-
8 In Re the Matter of: )

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9 LAMAR MURRY, ) CASE NUMBER
) PMH-19-024260
10 Conservatee. )
___________________________________)
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17 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
18 THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 12, 2019
19 PLACEMENT REVIEW HEARING
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DENISE L. DOUCETTE, CSR, RDR, FAPR 1

1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2 -o0o-
3 FOR THE PUBLIC CONSERVATOR'S OFFICE:
4 LESLIE COGAN, ESQUIRE

MICHAEL NGUYEN, ESQUIRE
5 Assistant District Attorneys
850 Bryant Street, Room 322
6 San Francisco, California 94103
(415) 553-9696 (Cogan)
7 (415) 553-4968 (Nguyen)
Leslie.cogan@sfgov.org
8 Michael.lu.nguyen@sfgov.org
9 FOR THE CONSERVATEE, LAMAR MURRY:
10 DANIEL MEYER, ESQUIRE

Deputy Public Defender
11 555 Seventh Street
San Francisco, California 94103
12 (415) 553-9330
Daniel.meyer@sfgov.org
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1 I N D E X
2 -o0o-
3 Proceedings - Thursday, September 12, 2019. . . . . . 4
4 Certificate of Official Court Reporter. . . . . . . .19
5 -o0o-
6 W I T N E S S E S
7 -o0o-
8 FOR THE CONSERVATEE: DIRECT CROSS
9 QUIETT, Annette 5 ---
10 -o0o-
11 E X H I B I T S
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13 (None marked or admitted)
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1 THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 12, 2019
2 -o0o-
3 (Proceedings commenced at 10:42 a.m.)
4 THE CLERK: Now calling Line Number 17 of the
5 mental health calendar with regards to Lamar Murry.
6 Counsel, please state your appearances.
7 MS. COGAN: Leslie Cogan for the Public
8 Conservator.
9 MR. NGUYEN: Michael Nguyen for the Public
10 Conservator.
11 MR. MEYER: Daniel Meyer appearing with Lamar
12 Murry.
13 THE COURT: Good morning, everybody.
14 Good morning, Mr. Murry.
15 THE CONSERVATEE: Good morning.
16 THE COURT: We're here this morning for a
17 placement review hearing that's been requested by Mr.
18 Murry.
19 Mr. Meyer?
20 MR. MEYER: Thank you. May I just have a
21 moment to call my first witness.
22 THE COURT: Absolutely.
23 (Attorney Meyer exits the courtroom
24 at 10:47 a.m. and returns at 10:47
25 a.m.)
26 MR. MEYER: Your Honor, may it please the
27 Court, at this time we call Annette Quiett.
28 (Annette Quiett was duly and

1 regularly sworn by the courtroom
2 clerk.)
3 THE WITNESS: Yes.
4 THE CLERK: Please state your name and spell
5 it for the record.
6 THE WITNESS: Annette Quiett, Q-u-i-e-t-t.
7 THE CLERK: Thank you.
8 THE COURT: Good morning, Ms. Quiett.
9 THE WITNESS: Good morning.
10 THE COURT: Mr. Meyer?
11 MR. MEYER: Thank you.
12 TESTIMONY OF
13 ANNETTE QUIETT,
14 called as a witness by the Conservatee, who, having been
15 first duly and regularly sworn, was examined and
16 testified as follows:
17 DIRECT EXAMINATION
18 BY DANIEL MEYER:
19 Q Good morning, Ms. Quiett.
20 A Good morning.
21 Q By whom are you employed?
22 A The Department of Public Health, Transitions
23 Placement.
24 Q And in what capacity?
25 A I am the placement coordinator.
26 Q Tell us, as the placement coordinator, what
27 are your responsibilities specifically in relation to
28 individuals who are in Mr. Murry's position, coming out

1 of custody conserved and going into a treatment setting?
2 A Well, twofold. So now my role -- it used to
3 be where I was just the LSAT coordinator, where I would
4 coordinate people being placed in locked facilities, but
5 now it's expanded and I'm over treatment facilities,
6 board and cares, and ADUs.
7 Q Okay. In your capacity in that role, have you
8 come to learn about or become familiar with the case of
9 Lamar Murry?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And when did you become acquainted with Mr.
12 Murry's case?
13 A February 12 this year.
14 Q And was that the day Mr. Murry was conserved?
15 A No; it was the date we received a request to
16 authorize him for a locked facility.
17 Q And Mr. Murry was conserved later that month,
18 on the 28th; is that correct?
19 A I do not know.
20 Q But you were aware he was placed on a
21 permanent conservatorship at some point in the month of
22 February of this year?
23 A I don't know exactly when it is, but you need
24 to be conserved if you -- or if you're going to a locked
25 facility.
26 Q And that was the plan for Mr. Murry when you
27 became aware of his case in February; is that correct?
28 A Yes.

1 Q Tell us, if you can, briefly the process which
2 happens from the moment that you get that referral, what
3 happens next.
4 A So we get a request for authorization for a
5 particular level of care. In Mr. Murry's case, it was
6 for an LSAT, which is a locked facility. At that point
7 then that goes -- that -- that request goes to our --
8 our -- our nurse that goes to the jails and interviews
9 the client to determine what the appropriate level of
10 care for them, if the LSAT is appropriate for them or
11 some other level of care is appropriate.
12 Q And in Mr. Murry's case it was found that an
13 LSAT was appropriate, so what happened next?
14 A Yes. So then he was authorized February 20,
15 and then I requested a referral packet, which is all of
16 the pertinent information that is sent to a facility
17 that is appropriate for him.
18 Q Okay. And do you know the date that you
19 received that referral packet?
20 A March 5.
21 Q Okay. What happens next? You then send that
22 to the facility; is that correct?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And was that referral packet specific to one
25 facility, or can it be sent to multiple facilities?
26 A It can be sent to multiple facilities, but in
27 this case, as in a lot of the case with jail clients,
28 they do not have Medi-Cal, so without Medi-Cal their

1 only option would be the MHRC.
2 Q Okay. Is that currently still the case, that
3 the Crestwood Healing Center is not an option for people
4 without entitlements?
5 A People -- it's not without entitlements, but
6 in some cases recently, for us to get people placed,
7 we've been authorized, if Crestwood will accept them, to
8 place them there, and the Transitions Department will be
9 covering the cost for them to go there, which Medi-Cal
10 would cover.
11 Q Okay. So there is a way to get people to
12 Crestwood, but at the time that you received Mr. Murry's
13 case --
14 A Yes.
15 Q -- your understanding was that the MHRC was
16 the only option; is that correct?
17 A Yes. It usually is the only option. It needs
18 to be approved higher than my level or -- for us to
19 place them someplace when they don't have Medi-Cal.
20 Q And am I correct that that has happened within
21 the last two weeks, that that approval has been made for
22 other individuals similarly situated to Mr. Murry?
23 A Yes.
24 Q When you received the referral packet in March
25 for Mr. Murry, was the MHRC at that time accepting new
26 patients?
27 A Yes, it was.
28 Q Okay. And was Mr. Murry referred there?

1 A Yes, he was.
2 Q At some point did the MHRC stop accepting new
3 patients?
4 A Yes.
5 Q When was that?
6 A I don't know the exact date. It was probably
7 around the end of June -- I mean the end of May, early
8 June. I'm not sure. I don't remember.
9 Q Okay. And at that time was Mr. Murry still
10 waiting for a bed at the MHRC?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Were efforts made to expand his placement
13 options since the MHRC was not going to be available to
14 him?
15 A One of the issues, because he -- because he's
16 incarcerated in jail, he is -- he cannot apply -- we can
17 apply, but he will not get Medi-Cal.
18 Q Okay. Can you elaborate? And so what does
19 that mean in terms of placement options for him?
20 A It means the MHRC.
21 Q And if the MHRC isn't accepting new patients,
22 what does that mean?
23 A That means we wait until we can figure out
24 what we can do, because we have to get approval to buy
25 more beds or approval to cover the cost.
26 Q Was that approval sought?
27 A Yes.
28 Q And was it granted?

1 A I can't remember.
2 Q If that approval was sought and granted, Mr.
3 Murry would have been referred to multiple facilities;
4 is that correct?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Was he referred to multiple facilities?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. Does that refresh your memory as to
9 whether that approval was granted?
10 A I -- honestly, I don't -- I don't remember. I
11 don't remember what was the issue. We had other things
12 going on that we were requesting dollars for, additional
13 dollars.
14 Q Is the MHRC currently accepting new patients?
15 A No, they're currently not, but they've had
16 some recent discharges, so we are filling those beds.
17 They still have the -- they're still at the cap where
18 they stopped doing admissions, but since they've had a
19 few discharges, they are replacing those with other
20 clients, and Mr. Murry is scheduled to go tomorrow.
21 Q The cap that you mentioned -- how many
22 individuals was it capped at?
23 MS. COGAN: Relevance; objection.
24 THE COURT: If you know the answer, you can
25 tell us.
26 THE WITNESS: It was 36.
27 MR. MEYER: Q And is it correct that the
28 maximum capacity of the MHRC is 47 when fully staffed?

1 A I am not sure what the exact number is.
2 Q Okay. But the exact number of patients in --
3 I think you said late May, early June -- were there 36
4 patients at the MHRC when the freeze began?
5 A I don't recall. I think when they held
6 admissions, they added one more because it was
7 previously arranged.
8 Q Okay. So there were 35 people occupying the
9 MHRC at the time when --
10 A I don't know the specifics.
11 Q Okay. But you know currently it's at 36; is
12 that correct?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Do you know whether in late May, early June,
15 when the cap began, whether 11 patients were discharged
16 from the MHRC?
17 MS. COGAN: Objection; relevance.
18 THE COURT: If you know, you can answer.
19 THE WITNESS: I do not know.
20 MR. MEYER: Q Okay. Would you know if 11
21 patients --
22 A I would fill those beds.
23 Q Okay. Do you recall at any period of time
24 between late May and early June -- let me rephrase that.
25 Since February, when Mr. Murry was conserved,
26 were there any admissions to the MHRC?
27 A I believe so, but I can't be for certain.
28 Q When the freeze did go into effect and it

1 became clear that Mr. Murry wouldn't be going to the
2 MHRC absent a significant number of patients leaving
3 there, what efforts were made after that to find
4 alternative placements for him?
5 A We were actually trying to work on getting him
6 Medi-Cal.
7 Q But as you mentioned, you can't apply for
8 Medi-Cal in jail; right?
9 A We were actually working on a way to figure
10 that out, but our eligibility worker is now out on
11 leave.
12 Q Is it correct that your Medi-Cal gets
13 cancelled when you get incarcerated?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Is that what happened in Mr. Murry's case?
16 A It could be. It could have been cancelled
17 before he was incarcerated. But I don't know.
18 MS. COGAN: Objection; move to strike the
19 answer; lack of foundation.
20 THE COURT: The answer stands as, "I don't
21 know," so it may stand.
22 MR. MEYER: Q Do you prioritize individuals
23 who are in custody and conserved when trying to place
24 them in appropriate treatment settings?
25 A I'm not understanding the question.
26 Q Does the MHRC have a wait list?
27 A Yes, it does.
28 Q Are there numbers to the wait list?

1 A Yes.
2 Q And those numbers correlate with individuals?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And does -- do those numbers depend on how
5 long an individual has been waiting?
6 A They can.
7 Q Can you elaborate on that for me?
8 A Well, there's a priority for the MHRC wait
9 list. The first priorities are 1370s; then you have
10 those that are in acute care; those that are in jail;
11 and then those that are in other hospitals.
12 Q Okay. Where would Mr. Murry fall within that
13 priority scheme?
14 A He falls under those that were in jail before
15 his admission. He was Number 11.
16 Q And do you know if at any period of time his
17 number changed?
18 A Yes. I don't know when, but his number has
19 changed.
20 Q Okay. From 11 it changed, or to 11?
21 A I think he was even lower and higher.
22 Q Explain that one to me.
23 A Some people get pushed before him, so he'll
24 get pushed down, and some will come after him or they'll
25 get discharged and he'll get pushed up.
26 Q And that's because they're individuals who are
27 higher priority --
28 A Not higher priority; they may have gotten off

1 the list. They may have been placed or gotten off the
2 list.
3 Q How would he get pushed down the list?
4 A If someone that has a higher priority goes
5 ahead of him, like a 1370 or someone in the hospital.
6 Q Do you know why certain people are prioritized
7 over others?
8 MS. COGAN: Objection; beyond the scope of
9 this hearing, your Honor.
10 THE COURT: I think you may have told us, but
11 if you've got something more to tell us about that, feel
12 free to go ahead.
13 THE WITNESS: No.
14 MR. MEYER: Q Do you know why 1370s are
15 prioritized?
17 THE COURT: Sustained.
18 MR. MEYER: Q Do you -- well, tell us what
19 the plan is for Mr. Murry.
20 A His admission is scheduled for the -- to the
21 MHRC tomorrow.
22 Q Okay. Is there a patient leaving the MHRC
23 tomorrow?
24 A No. There's a patient that is -- was on a bed
25 hold that's at San Francisco General Hospital who will
26 not be coming back anytime soon.
27 Q Okay. So they had just recently left the
28 MHRC, is that correct, that individual that you

1 mentioned?
3 THE COURT: Sustained.
4 MR. MEYER: Q In order to fill a bed, you
5 need someone to leave a bed; right?
6 A Correct.
7 Q And Mr. Murry's gonna fill a bed tomorrow; is
8 that correct?
9 A Yes.
10 Q And that's because an individual left a bed
11 recently; is that correct?
13 THE COURT: If you know the answer
14 specifically as to Mr. Murry, you can give it to us.
15 THE WITNESS: It was not recently.
16 MR. MEYER: Q Can you tell us when that
17 individual left that bed?
18 MS. COGAN: Objection; relevance to Mr. Murry.
19 THE COURT: Overruled.
20 THE WITNESS: She was on a bed hold, and we're
21 no longer gonna hold the bed.
22 MR. MEYER: Q What does that mean?
23 A That means we were holding her bed so that no
24 one else could go in until she came -- until she
25 returned from the hospital, but we just -- we found out
26 yesterday she's gonna require more time in the hospital
27 and then at a rehab.
28 Q Okay. So as of yesterday that bed became

1 available because you found out that she wasn't gonna be
2 coming back --
3 A Yes.
4 Q -- to the MHRC. And are there other 1370s
5 that are currently waiting for MHRC beds?
6 MS. COGAN: Objection, your Honor; relevance.
7 THE COURT: Sustained for this hearing.
8 MR. MEYER: Q Was Mr. Murry as of yesterday
9 Number 11 on the MHRC waiting list?
10 A Actually, I don't have the list in front of me
11 because we've had -- we've been having movement on it,
12 so I don't know what the -- his actual position was.
13 Q The last time you checked, was he Number 11?
14 A He was 11, yes.
15 Q Do you know if ten other people have been
16 admitted to the MHRC?
17 MS. COGAN: Objection; relevance; beyond the
18 scope.
19 THE COURT: If you know the answer to that
20 question, you can answer it.
21 THE WITNESS: No, ten other people have not
22 been admitted.
23 MR. MEYER: Q Is it fair to say that Mr.
24 Murry was prioritized for admission to the MHRC?
25 A Yes.
26 Q Why?
27 A To -- to get him out before this hearing, so
28 we wouldn't have to appear.

1 MR. MEYER: I have no further questions.
2 THE COURT: Ms. Cogan?
3 MS. COGAN: No questions.
4 THE COURT: Thank you very much, Ms. Quiett.
5 You may step down.
6 Mr. Meyer, any other evidence?
7 MR. MEYER: No other witnesses, your Honor.
8 THE COURT: Ms. Cogan, any evidence?
9 MS. COGAN: No, your Honor.
10 THE COURT: All right.
11 MR. MEYER: I do have a proposed order that
12 I'd like to submit for the Court's approval.
13 MS. COGAN: Let me look at that.
14 MR. MEYER: Okay. I'm handing it to Ms. Cogan
15 now. And it's for an order for -- an order of the Court
16 as to least restrictive placement.
17 MS. COGAN: I'd just ask that the language
18 regarding the order to show cause be stricken.
19 THE COURT: Well, let me see what language it
20 is you're looking at.
21 (The Court examines a document
22 provided by counsel.)
23 THE COURT: Mr. Meyer, if you want to respond
24 to Ms. Cogan's objection.
25 MR. MEYER: What is the objection?
26 THE COURT: To including the language
27 concerning an order to show cause.
28 MR. MEYER: On the 10th of October?

1 THE COURT: Correct.
2 MR. MEYER: That they would have to be present
3 and show cause? Whatever her proposed amended language
4 is, I would be willing to consider it. I'm asking for a
5 future court date to make sure that Mr. Murry is gone by
6 that date.
7 MS. COGAN: There's no objection to a future
8 court date.
9 THE COURT: The order includes that the matter
10 is continued to October 10 for status of placement.
11 The parties stipulate that Mr. Murry's
12 conservatorship began on February 28, 2019?
13 MS. COGAN: Yes, your Honor.
14 THE COURT: All right. As modified, I have
15 signed the order.
16 MR. MEYER: Thank you.
17 THE COURT: Thank you.
18 Thank you, Mr. Murry, for coming in; and good
19 luck to you in your new placement.
20 THE CONSERVATEE: Thank you.
21 (The matter of In Re Lamar Murry,
22 Conservatee, Case Number
23 PMH-19-024260, was adjourned at 11:07
24 a.m.)
25 -o0o-
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1 STATE OF CALIFORNIA )
) ss:
2 COUNTY OF SOLANO )
3 I, DENISE L. DOUCETTE, CSR 5963, RDR, CMR,
4 FAPR, a retired official court reporter of the Superior
5 Court of the County of San Francisco, State of
6 California, do hereby certify that the foregoing is a
7 full, true, and correct transcription of the shorthand
8 notes taken by me of the proceedings had in the
9 above-entitled matter.
10 I have hereunto set my hand this 17th day of
11 September, 2019, at Vallejo, California.
12
13 __________________________________
DENISE L. DOUCETTE, CSR 5963
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1 IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO

3 HONORABLE PETER J. BUSCH, JUDGE PRESIDING

8 In Re the Matter of: )

17 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

18 THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 12, 2019

19 PLACEMENT REVIEW HEARING

DENISE L. DOUCETTE, CSR, RDR, FAPR 1

3 FOR THE PUBLIC CONSERVATOR'S OFFICE:

4 LESLIE COGAN, ESQUIRE

9 FOR THE CONSERVATEE, LAMAR MURRY:

10 DANIEL MEYER, ESQUIRE

DENISE L. DOUCETTE, CSR, RDR, FAPR 2

3 Proceedings - Thursday, September 12, 2019. . . . . . 4

4 Certificate of Official Court Reporter. . . . . . . .19

8 FOR THE CONSERVATEE: DIRECT CROSS

9 QUIETT, Annette 5 ---

13 (None marked or admitted)

DENISE L. DOUCETTE, CSR, RDR, FAPR 3

3 (Proceedings commenced at 10:42 a.m.)

4 THE CLERK: Now calling Line Number 17 of the

5 mental health calendar with regards to Lamar Murry.

6 Counsel, please state your appearances.

7 MS. COGAN: Leslie Cogan for the Public

9 MR. NGUYEN: Michael Nguyen for the Public

11 MR. MEYER: Daniel Meyer appearing with Lamar

13 THE COURT: Good morning, everybody.

14 Good morning, Mr. Murry.

15 THE CONSERVATEE: Good morning.

16 THE COURT: We're here this morning for a

17 placement review hearing that's been requested by Mr.

20 MR. MEYER: Thank you. May I just have a

21 moment to call my first witness.

22 THE COURT: Absolutely.

23 (Attorney Meyer exits the courtroom

24 at 10:47 a.m. and returns at 10:47

26 MR. MEYER: Your Honor, may it please the

27 Court, at this time we call Annette Quiett.

28 (Annette Quiett was duly and

DENISE L. DOUCETTE, CSR, RDR, FAPR 4

3 THE WITNESS: Yes.

4 THE CLERK: Please state your name and spell

5 it for the record.

6 THE WITNESS: Annette Quiett, Q-u-i-e-t-t.

7 THE CLERK: Thank you.

8 THE COURT: Good morning, Ms. Quiett.

9 THE WITNESS: Good morning.

10 THE COURT: Mr. Meyer?

11 MR. MEYER: Thank you.

14 called as a witness by the Conservatee, who, having been

15 first duly and regularly sworn, was examined and

19 Q Good morning, Ms. Quiett.

21 Q By whom are you employed?

22 A The Department of Public Health, Transitions

24 Q And in what capacity?

25 A I am the placement coordinator.

26 Q Tell us, as the placement coordinator, what

27 are your responsibilities specifically in relation to

28 individuals who are in Mr. Murry's position, coming out

DENISE L. DOUCETTE, CSR, RDR, FAPR 5

2 A Well, twofold. So now my role -- it used to

3 be where I was just the LSAT coordinator, where I would

4 coordinate people being placed in locked facilities, but

5 now it's expanded and I'm over treatment facilities,