Sophian Gnosticism About Homosexuality

Romans 1:20-27 "The Homosexuality Passage"
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#1 Postby Jordan » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:23 pm
20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine
nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are
without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but
their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to
be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to
look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the
degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and
worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural
relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with
women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other
men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave
them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
This passage has become of recent interest to me. In much of the Christian church today we see
this passage associated commonly with homosexuality, which they consider a sin, as well as a
condemnation of paganism or any religion that involves the making of icons in the use of
polytheistic or even monist worship. Because this passage has so often been used negatively and
because of its over-association with homosexuality, its more subtler meanings are rarely exposed.
I think it would be a good passage for us all to consider and comment upon:
God's eternal power and divine nature, though invisible, are declared to be quite obvious and
understood, that is, manifest through creation. This speaks wonderfully of the Sophian adage that
says "we can not see the sun, but only the glory of the sun". The secret centre of the light is
never seen, only its emanation. It seems that St. Paul might be speaking of the mystery of Ein
Sof. If God's invisible qualities are seen through creation then, in addition to saying something
about God, something more sublte is being said about creation, mainly that creation is a kind of
vessel of God's attributes, that both his eternal power (perhaps the Shekinah?) and his divine
nature pass through creation in order that we might percieve what is otherwise unknown.
Perhaps, with this understanding, to "know God" means to recieve the outpouring of his life, of
his invisible qualities.
Yet St. Paul writes of the many that "though they knew God they did not honor him". Perhaps,
though they recieve God's Shekinah, they do not keep her in union with Him. Rather they
"exchange the glory (Shekinah?) of the immortal God for images resembling mortal things".
This in itself has much potential for exegesis. What does it mean to exchange the glory of the
immortal God for the image of something that is conditioned and ultimately temporary?
Considering that image means a representation of something, Paul is saying that we exchange
God's glory not only for something mortal, but for the image of something mortal.
He moves on from here to detail God's response, writing that "therefore God gave them up in the
lusts of their hearts to impurity"
This is a quite shocking thing to say! God actually gives his creation up to impurity and lust, but
it is also quite in line with the idea of free will as a precious gift to creation. But I don't think this
should be looked up at a purely individual level, but rather, that St. Paul is speaking of cosmic
events and the unfolding of ignorance in the creative process.
As a response to this "idolatry" God gives up the world to degrading passions, noting that "their
women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural and in the same way also the men, giving up
intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another."
Most socially liberal Christians disregard this passage as Paul's wrongful or misinterpreted
condemnation of homosexuality. If so, what is the proper interpretation? Paul has noted that the
sin of "idolatry" has confused the relationships between gender because humanity's relationship
to God has been distorted as well. In terms of a Christian Kabbalah, this speaks to me regarding
the various Sefirot and the inherent male/female dynamic within the Tree of Life. Because the
actions of humanity actually affect the cosmic structure, perhaps what is being alluded to here is
the disruption of the relationship between the Sefirot. The Mother, perhaps, turns her back to the
Father and associates with another female, producing wrath. I actually don't have much
knowledge of the male/female dynamic within the Tree of Life, but the basic idea that their
relationships are being confused is what I get from this passage. Perhaps a more experienced
Sophian could comment more extensivley on the precise nature of the Sefirotic relationships.
Hopefully that can get the ball rolling on this passage!
Blessings and Shalom!
Jordan.
"O God, I will sing You a new song, sing a hymn to You with a ten-stringed harp"- Psalm 144:9
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Various thoughts and tangents
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#2 Postby Shirah » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:37 am
I think you're onto something here with attributing this to an interplay of the sephirot on a cosmic
level. The passage quote here pretty much begins by saying "as above, so below." I also would
love to hear more on the interpretation from a "full blown" Sophian
If I might interject as well as a student with a few thoughts -- it's always interesting how people
can slant anything to an agenda or perspective, this passage being no exception. Searching for an
objective "this is it" on something is so difficult to say.
I found myself as I read this passage thinking along the lines of the difference between
"lustful/wrong" and "pure/right" desires here. With that line of thinking you could say it was not
that the homosexuality was wrong but that these desires would be just a wrong even in a
heterosexual way. To assume heterosexual union is pure just because it is what it is I think is
completely naive and I'd say a good browse around the internet provides plenty of proof of that.
There is much that can be said even in a mundane level on this, let alone what might come of the
consideration of the spiritual metaphor/reality as you already began.
One might ponder that it's being differentiated in the passage as to the "indecent acts" that are
now committed, in contrast to the previously "decent acts" that presumably prefaced them. As in,
the same act turned wrong or indecent on account of skewed intention.
On another note, Paul you could say is honoring the female gender and even placing them on a
pedestal when he marvels that even they are affected by this, hinting subltely at the "Second
Coming."
However, a conservative fundamentalist would read the same passage and say "this is anti
homosexual and you are just trying to pick the interpretation you want to justify it." And, of
course, I could argue the same for them.
I want to note that I think however it is equally unbalanced to just disregard the passage outright
in favor of being looked at as socially conscious, post-modern or valid. This goes for any dogma
of the politically "far left" or "far right" as well as it's really the same monster.
I'd speculate that a Sophian outlook would concentrate on the unfolding continuously of the Light
Presence and Transmission. I suspect we would find that there is no "correct interpretation" as
any attempt at this would be tainted by Karmic Vision. The focus would be on how might what
we are reading inspire us to the highest of life now? And in regard to our own Tikkune, what
parts of me are reacting badly to this and why?
Even if we somehow arrived objectively at this passage being hostily directed at homosexual
relations, and that there was no more argument on it, said and done, we could still choose to be
inspired to take the "good sparks" of light from the passage about purity and apply them to
ourselves in the here and now. The underlying idea being that we are now, more than ever, closer
to the "Day of Be With Us" and at this point in linear time we are farther along than those who
have come before us (which were really ourselves anyway).
Great topic here, thanks Jordan! I look forward to what others have to say.
Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song:
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Tau Malachi
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General Reflections
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#3 Postby Tau Malachi » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:50 pm
Salutations Jordan!
Yes, indeed, I believe that an exploration of this passage from the bible is important, especially
since this week I received word from Brother Mark+ that a person actually quit his circle because
members of the circle we going to march in a gay pride parade in Austin – the persecution of
peoples because of sexual orientation is all too prevalent and pervasive throughout Christianity,
as well as other institutionalized forms of the wisdom traditions, and it is a shame. Archaic
societal and cultural ignorance – prejudice, is put forth as the “word of God” or as the implicit
“truth of enlightenment” in many wisdom traditions. I recall my shock, for example, upon
hearing about the Dali Lama denouncing gay and lesbian peoples, and recall pondering the idea
of the incarnation of a “Bodhisattva of Compassion” in the twenty-first century upholding such
persecution and oppression.
First I must point out that Lord Yeshua was noted for keeping company with tax collectors,
prostitutes and all manner of people on the fringes of the unenlightened society who were
persecuted, oppressed and made outcasts – if Lord Yeshua were incarnate today, in the twenty-
first century, who would the Lord be likely to keep company with?
The scriptures are, indeed, inspired by the Holy Spirit, yet, written by human beings the
limitations of human beings also appear in them – they are interpretations of spiritual truth
through human agents, and however enlightened a human being may be, whatever is written or
spoken is limited by the intelligence and capacity of the individual, as well as the knowledge and
understanding of the time and place in which they are incarnate. Naturally, human ignorance and
bias will enter into play, mixing itself with the spiritual and metaphysical truths communicated –
it can be no other way.
A fine example is the bible’s condoning of slavery – even in the New Testament; because an
apostle gives teachings on how to keep and treat slaves, does that make slavery God’s will? God
forbid such ignorance and injustice! At the time the scriptures were written, the evil of slavery
pervaded virtually all societies, and in the conventional “wisdom” of the day slavery was
considered normal and put forth in the name of God. Yet, clearly, no intelligent person in their
right mind, let alone in the love of Christ, would propose that slavery was the “will of God” in the
twenty-first century? The same may be said of the persecution of homosexuals – such comes
from the ignorance and intolerance of mortal human beings, not the love of Christ or the will of
God Most High, plain and simple. It is sheer and utter ignorance, as surely as prejudice on
account of race or gender – which scriptures have also been used to espouse and enforce. An
intelligent person and disciple of Christ reading 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy in the twenty-first
century can only shudder at the depiction of womanhood and the role to which women are
regulated! Such instances in the scriptures need no apology – they are what they are, archaic and
obsolete ways of thinking, plain and simple.
Of course, that does not diminish the spiritual truth and wisdom that is in the scriptures – it is
simply the taint of human limitations and ignorance, something quite natural and to be expected;
we must merely learn to discern the wisdom of God from the folly of men, gathering in the light
of wisdom and shedding the shades and shadows of folly.
Slavery, racism, inequality between men and women, persecution on account of sexual
orientation – all of this in the Sophian view is considered *ignorance and injustice*, and has no
place among us; it is contrary to the love of Christ, and our experience of the Risen Messiah and
Shekinah of Messiah.
Essentially, the Sophian teachings apply the same standards of relationship to heterosexual
couples and homosexual couples – the tradition encourages loving and committed relationships
between consenting adults, and encourages all couples to integrate their spirituality with their
relationships. In other words, in Sophian teachings it is the quality of the relationship that is at
issue, not the gender of the people involved in the relationship.
Now, in the midst of this passage issues of alternative spirituality are also raised – hence, the idea
of false spiritual teachers and false prophets, and false spiritual teachings. If we look into
alternative spirituality in modern times, through out much of modern spirituality, the new age and
pop-occultism, including parts of the modern Christian Gnostic movement, there are, indeed,
many false teachers and false prophets, and many false teachings are put forth – there is much
that has little, if anything, to do with actual self-realization or enlightenment, and there are some
“spiritual teachings” that actually encourage things completely opposite to enlightenment and the
Divine.
In the Sophian teachings the measure of a spiritual teaching or tradition is based upon whether or
not it is founded upon an actual realization or enlightenment – if it facilitates the development
and evolution of the soul towards enlightenment and liberation, then we view it as an expression
of Light Transmission or Divine Revelation, but if it obstructs the development and evolution of
the soul towards enlightenment, or has no foundation in actual self-realization or enlightenment,
then in our view it is not an expression Light Transmission of Divine Revelation.
In the midst of this passage we might inquire if it is actually homosexuality that the apostle is
addressing, or if it is the blight of a strange cult of the day that encouraged hedonistic rites that
were based upon orgies which just happened to be homosexual? Whether heterosexual or
homosexual, such rites would reflect nefesh behamit (the bestial soul) rather than nefesh elokit
(godly soul), something bestial, rather than something human and divine. Quite naturally, a holy
tzaddik or apostle might have much to say about such teachings and practices put off as
something “spiritual” or “enlightened.”
In the process of awakening the full presence and power of the soul of light that is in us we
activate greater desire-energy, the Serpent Power or Kundalini Energy; this gives rise to a
significantly greater amount of desire, as well as to psychic and magic-powers that are a side-
effect of the awakening process – it is extremely intoxicating, and at certain stages in the process
of awakening it is very easy for us to get carried away in the wrong direction, led astray from the
Path to Enlightenment. Any experienced spiritual adept or master will understand this very well –
the Serpent Power itself is not enlightenment and liberation, but it is a force for enlightenment
and liberation only when sublimated, uplifted and redeemed; thus, innate to the teachings of any
authentic adept or master will be teachings and practices for self-purification and the sublimation
of desire-energy, not encouragement for intoxication with bestial and egoistic desires, or with the
world and things of the world.
Removing the issue of prejudice against gay and lesbian individuals, what St. Paul is speaking
about is exactly what results from premature awakening of the Serpent Power – the intoxication
that may result if the Serpent Power is not sublimated, uplifted and redeemed in the Heart, Brow
and Crown.
Ironically, removing the issue of prejudice regarding gender orientation, what St. Paul outlines in
verses 28-32 becomes a fairly accurate description of our modern Western society and culture,
and the establishments and rulers that hold dominion. Quite distinctly it is as though he is writing
about the “signs of our times,” reflecting the unenlightened society and culture of the modern
Babylon, or modern Roman Empire, in which it appears that we are living.
Given the times in which we are living – this society and culture, it is not surprising that
spirituality is also frequently corrupted; given the world and the ignorance (demiurge) that
dominates it, frankly it is not surprising in any time – hence the lower aeons in Gnosticism that
are associated with the demiurge and archons.
Thus, there is also wisdom in this passage from Romans regarding the discernment of spiritual
teachings and practices, and development of a true spiritual life in the midst of a society and
culture that does not encourage true spirituality or enlightenment, but quite the opposite.
Of course, having said all of this, St. Paul immediately casts a balance, teaching us not to judge
others, but rather to pay attention to our own spiritual life and practice, our own spiritual
development and evolution – hence, enacting the Truth and Light that has been revealed to us,
and removing from ourselves all that is not in harmony with the Truth and Light, the love of
Christ and true will of God.
May we be delivered from the darkness of ignorance – may all shades and shadows be
dispelled in the Light of the True Cross, the Great Seth; Amen.
Blessings & shalom!

Tau Malachi
Sophia Fellowship
Ecclesia Pistis Sophia
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Tau Malachi
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Going beyond
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#4 Postby Tau Malachi » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:48 am
A further contemplation…
“Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their
bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped
and served creatures rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen” (Romans 1:24).
The phrase “degraded” is significant, for the Holy Sefirot of the Tree of Life are often called
“grades” in the teachings – various gradations of the Supernal Light manifest through the
principle of restriction. Thus, degrading implies cleaving to a lower grade, beneath one’s own
proper grade; likewise, it implies passing from the day side of the Tree of Life to the night side,
the “Other Side” or dominion of the klippot (husks of darkness or impure emanations).
Before this statement of degradation, St. Paul writes: “Ever since the creation of the world his
eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and seen
through the things he has made. So they are without excuse, for though they knew God, they did
not honor him as God or give thanks to him…” (Romans 1:20-21). In other words, the choice to
cleave to higher grades, to the Divine Presence and Power, or to cleave to lower grades, or to the
impure grades of the klippot, belongs to the human being – when the scriptures says that “God
gave them up,” it is God honoring the principle of free will in creatures; choosing to cleave to the
Other Side, or to the world and things of the world, we remove ourselves from the grade of
Divine Providence (Malkut) – hence, we remove ourselves from the Divine Presence and Power.
In a figure of speech, what is God to do? Can the Holy Spirit affirm falsehood and darkness, or
give herself over to the shades and shadows of klippot in us? No, indeed! She cannot affirm
falsehood and darkness – the Holy Spirit cannot cohabitate with the spirit of the Other Side, lest
the process of creative evolution could not be brought to its fruition in the Divine, as is the
original intention. Thus, if and when we cleave to the spirit of the Other Side, the Holy Spirit
must withdraw, contracting into herself – God must “give us up,” at it were, to the choice that we
have made, until such time as we turn away from darkness and reintegrate ourselves with the
Divine Light, restoring ourselves to the grade of Divine Providence.
In this we may say that the consequence is in the action itself – whether for good or for ill, or for
better or for worse; according to the law of cause and effect, whatever might be called the
“judgment” is within the action itself. Thus in terms of heaven and hell, or life and death, heaven
and life is the experience of nearness to God and hell and death is the experience of distance from
God – whether we choose to draw near or to remove ourselves, the corresponding effect plays
itself out in the reality of our experience.
In the midst of all of this we are not alone, but there are countless divine and enlightened beings
extending their influence and invisible assistance, and there is the play of Divine Grace – if we
choose to link with the divine powers, and we cleave to the Messiah and Shekinah of Messiah,
we are established in the Sanctuary of Grace (Divine Providence) and receive much help along
the way.
In the hierarchy of being that composes the Entirety, however, divine and enlightened beings are
not the only spiritual forces we encounter – there are also admixed or titanic beings-forces, as
well as dark and hostile beings-forces; all that might appear to us as luminous, god-like or divine
is not necessarily of the True Light of the Divine – the discernment of spiritual beings-forces is
necessary. In terms of discernment of spiritual forces, all we must do is abide in the presence of
awareness, letting go of attachment and aversion, and look and see with rigorous honesty what
contact with a spiritual force encourages in us, whether qualities in harmony with the truth and
light, or falsehood and darkness indicative of the Other Side. Granted, some forms of admixture
are very subtle and more difficult to recognize, but if we are open and honest with ourselves in
the presence of God, the True Light, we shall be able to look and see, and discern.
According to the Book of Hebrews, such discernment is among the first steps to spiritual
maturation.
In the Christian Kabbalah there is a very esoteric interpretation of “homosexuality,” not in terms
of the literal sexual orientation of a person, but rather in terms of the mystery of hieros gamos –
the sacred marriage, as understood to occur in the Tree of Life. According to the masters of the
tradition, through the spiritual life and practice of the Community of the Faithful and Elect, the
Holy Church, the hieros gamos is brought about. Malkut is the Spiritual Community or Holy
Church, and she is the Holy Bride, the Shekinah of Messiah, and Tiferet (or the Six Sefirot of Zer
Anpin) is the Messiah, the Bridegroom – the hieros gamos is the union of Malkut with the Upper
Sefirot when human beings turn to God and worship God, called upon the Name of God, seeking
union with God – enlightenment, cleaving to the Holy One. This is the restoration of the final He
in the Great Name of God, Yahweh, to the Yod-He-Vau of the Name, representing reintegration
into the Light Continuum (indicated by the Name of Yahweh – “that which was, is and forever
shall be”).
Now, according to the tradition, when human beings do not give praise and thanks to God the
True Light, and do not call upon Ha-Shem (the Name), and do not cleave to the grades of
holiness – the Holy Shekinah, so as to bring forth the divine powers into the world, in effect, the
final He of the Great Name is separated from the Name, and there is a breech in Malkut. Thus,
shefa and ruhaniyot flow out to the Other Side, manifesting as impure emanations, the dominion
of the klippot. Through negative thought, emotions, speech and actions, rather than the invocation
of the divine and enlightened ones, the holy ones as the prophet Daniel calls them, the admixed
and dark forces of the Other Side are invoked – the movement of Judgment-Gevurah without
mitigation by Mercy-Hesed.
You may note that first St. Paul speaks of women with women – this is Malkut separated from
the Upper Sefirot, and it represents the desire to receive for one self alone (the klippah of the
desire to receive), the feminine representing the desire to receive in Kabbalah. Then he speaks of
men with men – this is the ruhaniyot and shefa going to “the Other Side,” and it is the perversion
of the desire to give through the desire to receive for oneself alone, the desire to give becoming
corrupted and manifest as giving to acquire false dominion and power over others, or for some
other reason than the pure desire to give. Likewise, it is the giving of light-power to shades and
shadows, as in the play of consumerism and the Great Beast (herd consciousness of
unenlightened society).
Thus, “homosexuality,” when not taken as a literal statement regarding sexual orientation, but in
reference to the metaphysical mystery of hieros gamos, becomes symbolic of *cleaving to the
spirit of the Other Side*, the feeding dominion of the klippot.
Something similar occurs in stories of the fall of Pistis Sophia, or stories of Pistis Sophia creating
without her divine consort – deceived by a false light she descends to it and her light-power is
stolen from her by the demiurge, archons and demons; or else, creating apart from her divine
consort, she generates the abreaction, the demiurge, Yaldabaot. Pistis Sophia corresponds to
Malkut in our Christian Kabbalah.
Here, of course, it must be said that the mystery of hieros gamos is inward and spiritual, not
outward and material – it is not about being straight or gay, but rather it is about our inward
cleaving and the quality of our spiritual life and practice, and the unfolding of our self-realization
in Christ; whether straight or gay, do we rightly cleave to the Messiah and Shekinah of Messiah,
and do we become the Bridal Chamber in which they are brought into union?
Now this relates directly to a comment I made in my previous post regarding the sublimation of
the Serpent Power – receiving the Light from above, the Messiah (Bridegroom), we awaken the
Serpent Power, the Shekinah of Messiah (Bride) in us, and we bring them into union in the heart
and in the brow, uplifting the Serpent Power to repose in the crown, the fruition of the mystery of
the Bridal Chamber, the experience of union with Christ in God (the Divine I Am).
In the unenlightened condition, self-grasping gives rise to desire and fear, and desire energy is
directed downward and outward – the habitual karmic pattern binding us to the dominion of the
demiurge and gilgulim (transmigration); enlightenment transpires when we turn our desire energy
inward and upward – Godward, and bring self-grasping, desire and fear into cessation or repose.
This, and this alone, leads to the enlightenment and liberation of the mind or soul-stream.
In this we may understand what St. Paul says of the Holy Gospel before speaking of those “God
gave up,” he writes: “For in it the righteousness of God is revealed through faith for faith; as it is
written, ‘The one who is righteous will live by faith’” (Romans 1:17).
In closing we may recall that Malkut, is called “faith,” Binah being called the “parent of faith,” –
it is faith that empowers us to cleave to the Shekinah of Messiah and the Messiah, and of faith we
may say that it is the intelligence of the heart, the activity of love and compassion indicative of a
true human being and the Messiah of El Elyon, God Most High. (This reflects the correspondence
of Pistis Sophia, Faith-Wisdom, with Malkut in our Christian Kabbalah.)
Having explored the surface level of this passage in my previous post I thought I would explore
the deeper esoteric level in a separate post, as the two together would be rather lengthy as one
single response.
May we be rightly sealed in the Risen Messiah, abiding always in the Bridal Chamber;
amen.
Blessings & shalom!

Tau Malachi
Sophia Fellowship
Pistis Sophia Chapter 147
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#1 Postby Greenebow » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:36 pm
Bartholomew said: "A man who hath intercourse with a male, what is his vengeance?"
Jesus said: "The measure of the man who hath intercourse with males and of the man with whom
he lieth, is the same as that of the blasphemer.
"When then the time is completed through the sphere, the receivers of Yaldabaōth come after
their soul, and he with his forty-and-nine demons taketh vengeance on it eleven years.
"Thereafter they carry it to the fire-rivers and seething pitch-seas, which are full of demons with
pigs' faces. They eat into them and take vengeance on them in the fire-rivers another eleven
years.
"Thereafter they carry them into the outer darkness until the day of judgment when the great
darkness is judged; and then they will be dissolved and destroyed."
So, in mainstream Christianity Yeshua doesn't even mention homosexuality but in the Pistis
Sophia he comes across like Fred Phelps? I'm not trying to be flippant it's just one does tire of
dodging cast stones. I am well aware that Tau Malachi does not extol such prejudices but how
can hate like this come from one whose teachings are to be followed? I truly want to understand.
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The Shadows of Ignorance
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#2 Postby Tau Malachi » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:28 pm
Salutations in the Light of the Messiah, the Spiritual Sun!
Indeed, I do not extol or advocate such ignorance, but then I’m a spiritual teacher of the twenty-
first century in the United States, not first century Palestine; oddly enough though, I watch
societies and cultures continue to struggle with this issue in modern times, along with other issues
of equality, and in this struggle I see spiritual leaders fall to both sides of the issue. It is an
ongoing struggle with ignorance and intolerance (the bestial nature), and with the shades and
shadows generated by these, indicative of our present human condition and the material world –
it is a struggle of human development and evolution, the evolution of the vehicle of an ongoing
divine revelation, an ongoing development of enlightenment.
We should not be surprised when we see shades and shadows of the ignorance appear in any
scripture or teaching, however inspired by the Spirit of Truth they might be, or however realized
or enlightened the author might be – always there is some taint or trace of the ignorance in our
experience, some taint or trace of the ignorance in the vehicle of revelation; even if we may say
that an individual is illumined, realized or enlightened, that does not mean that they are infallible
or free from all taint of the ignorance in their time and place. But, that there is a taint or trace of
the ignorance, it also does not deny their knowledge and understanding, their illumination or
realization, or if there is a taint or trace of folly, it does not negate the value of their wisdom –
there is a play of wisdom and folly, knowledge and ignorance, and that is an integral part of our
journey through this world. It can be no other way.
Gnostic scriptures are not immune to this – no scriptures or teachings are. As for this sacred text
it is written by a lineage or school of thought well after the life of Adonai Yeshua – he did not
write any teachings, but rather disciples after him wrote them, and naturally their own cultural
and individual bias and prejudices enter into play, as do their own limitations in knowledge and
understanding. Did Adonai Yeshua make these remarks, or some form of similar remarks? The
truth is, we do not know. However, it is entirely possible that he did given the time and place in
which he lived – after all, like everyone else in his day, although a profoundly illumined
individual, he actually thought the world was flat, and if you went back in time and presented him
with some piece of modern technology he would not know what it was for or how to use it! To
whatever extent he may have embodied the Divine Presence and Power we call the Messiah or
Christ, still he was a human being with natural human limitations – it can be no other way.
There is great virtue to the shades and shadows of the ignorance that we find in the scriptures
though, for it may serve to dispel our own ignorance regarding realization or enlightenment, the
assumption that in the experience of illumination or enlightenment we stop being human –
moments like this in the scriptures reveal our own obstructions to the enlightenment experience
or divine gnosis. Indeed, what is shows us is that we ourselves, even in the midst of our own
imperfections or limitations, can enter into the Gnostic experience, the enlightenment experience
– when we see this is true with others, we know it can be true with us.
Rather than a noun, gnosis or enlightenment is a verb – it is a movement or action, and rather
than anything fixed or static, it is fluid and flowing, dynamic; it isn’t an arrival at perfect clarity
and knowledge from which one never departs, but rather it is a flickering between clarity and
confusion, but it is a flickering liberated from attachment to clarity and aversion to confusion.
Indeed, the enlightenment experience or experience of divine gnosis is much different than we
think at the outset – it is far more amazing than we imagine, and far nearer to us.
Does the natural human fallibility and error that I may witness with a holy person cause me to
reject all of their teachings, or if I disagree with them on some point of view does that mean that I
would refuse teachings and initiation from them? If I seek out a holy person, however holy they
might be, do I expect to find someone who is infallible, free from all human error? If that is the
case, then I’m not going to find a holy person in this world, and moreover, if that is the case I can
never be a holy person myself – after all, in this body, in this life, I will not be without error or
the taint of ignorance.
Interestingly enough, though, I cannot say that I’ve seen the Risen Messiah reject a gay or lesbian
person on the basis of their sexual orientation, nor seen the Holy Spirit withhold herself from gay
and lesbian peoples who enact an active and dynamic surrender to her, opening themselves to her
light and power – I’ve witnessed no such discrimination in the play of Light Transmission; if,
indeed, there was any such discrimination in the person of Yeshua, in the man, it was not in the
Light-presence (Messiah) or Light-power (Holy Spirit).
The question is, understanding that the Messiah, this Light-presence, may be embodied by a
person, and yet transcends any single person, do we want to experience this Light-presence and
Light-power, do we want to receive and embody it, and draw it from within us?
In this regard, the taint of the ignorance we might see in another does not matter – the experience
of the Light Transmission matters; and as for the taint of the ignorance, this I must labor to purify
from within myself, knowing that as I recognize the play of the ignorance outwardly in another, it
is equally within myself.
In terms of our study and contemplation of ancient scriptures, naturally we must gather in the
jewels of wisdom and cast away the husks of folly – and more than on the basis of our egoistic
self, and the ego’s attachments and aversion, likes and dislikes, we must do so base upon our
experience of Light Transmission and the Sacred Heart, the desire of our true being, the Light-
presence and Light-power in us.
The presence of these shades and shadows of ignorance does inspire something more, however –
although the study and contemplation of ancient scriptures is good, and there is much knowledge,
understanding and wisdom to be gleaned from them, do we want to rekindle ancient forms of
Gnosticism, or any ancient wisdom tradition, or do we want to regenerate the Gnostic experience
today, looking towards the future? Indeed, do I want to remain bound up in old age religion of
any kind, or do I seek to catch hold of the thread of the ongoing divine revelation, the ongoing
enlightenment experience in my own times, seeking a spirituality for a new era? When I
encounter shades and shadows of ignorance like this one they serve to remind me that I do not
wish to become bound up in old age religion, but rather that I seek a pure spirituality of direct
experience, which is the thrust of true Gnosticism, ancient or modern.
Thus, I’m not very troubled by the shades and shadows of the ignorance I stumble across in
ancient scriptures, but I seek to draw out of the scriptures what facilitates the Light Transmission
or Gnostic experience today; and when I encounter such shades and shadows as a modern
Gnostic lineage-holder, I seek to shatter the husk of darkness, the ignorance, and liberate the
spark or energy bound up in it, enacting what is called “tikkune” in the Kabbalah – correction,
rectification, repair, reintegration, mending or healing.
In this regard, as a tau of the lineage, I teach and initiate gay and lesbian peoples, and I recognize
gay and lesbian elders, and I ordain gay and lesbian individuals as Sophian Gnostic priests – in
fact, I’ll be consecrating a gay individual as a Gnostic bishop of the outer branch of our lineage,
Ecclesia Pistis Sophia, this spring when he comes to visit me. This is an active tikkune of this
shadow of ignorance, this taint of the demiurge, and it is the way of modern Sophian Gnosticism.
We may take much inspiration from Pistis Sophia, as well as other ancient scriptures, but our
lineage of Light Transmission is distinct from those that wrote these scriptures – and as a modern
Gnostic lineage we have a different vision of Gnostic spirituality; for example, although ours is a
Christian Gnostic lineage, we believe in integral weave of wisdom traditions for the generation of
streams of Light Transmission for the future – a greater vision of the Cosmic Christ and
Universal Sophia. We are not inclined to old age religion of any form, Western or Eastern, but
rather our interest is the generation of vehicles of Light Transmission or the Gnostic experience;
hence, vehicles of an actual self-realization or enlightenment process in modern times.
Whatever is useful to this intention we are swift to gather in, and whatever is not useful we are
swift to cast away – it is all about the development and evolution of the wisdom tradition and an
ongoing divine revelation, what we call “living gnosis” and “living tradition.”
Christ and Sophia may very well be embodied in human persons, but Christ and Sophia transcend
human persons – we do, indeed, honor and respect holy persons who embody something of this
Divine Presence and Power, but it is not the person that we worship and follow, but rather we
worship and follow Christ and Sophia, and God, the True Light.
Whether unenlightened or enlightened, human beings will have their idiosyncrasies and
limitations, and they will be liable to misconceptions and mistakes – in the case of realized
individuals, quite honestly, it is an amazing and beautiful sight to see the play of humanity and
divinity in them, and the enigma this presents us with is delightful, though at times perplexing;
how this transpires is truly a great mystery, and we delight in that mystery.
Now, in terms of how hurtful such ignorance can be, or how tired we might become of “dodging
stones” of persecution, we need to acquire self-knowledge and come to self-acceptance, working
out any inner persecutions that might plague us, and we need to live within, finding our center of
peace and joy within us; unfortunately, in our life time such prejudice and inequality is not going
away, and it is unlikely that this world is ever going to be the image of our ideal – thus our
healing and happiness, and our satisfaction, must be found within, in our soul-being and the
source of our being, God, the True Light.
I do not know if what I’m seeking to share will offer any consolation, or prove in someway
helpful to you, but this is what the Mother Spirit would inspire me to share with you.
I see that you have been a registered member in our forums for quite some time – I’m sorry our
first exchange is based upon such a painful frustration, but I’m happy that you brought it up so
that it might be discussed, as I know that it is a grief felt by many of our friends and it is good to
discuss it.
I will keep you in my heart and my prayers.
May all sentient beings receive sanctuary in the Mother’s heart-womb, and may all be
uplifted in Hayyah Yeshua; amen.
Blessings & shalom!

Tau Malachi
Sophia Fellowship
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Elder Gideon
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Blind Spots
 Quote
#3 Postby Elder Gideon » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:37 pm
Greetings Greenebow!
Yeshua’s silence on homosexuality in canonized gospels is ironic given messages attributed to
him against homosexuality in at least two Gnostic gospels, Pistis Sophia and Gospel of Judas,
raising immense questions about the very nature of how we know and when we know a
revelation of unmediated, direct knowledge—gnosis. The space of this forum and my own
knowledge and experience as a fledgling Sophian Elder about how I or we know anything will
fall very short of the moving complexity of how and when we know Reality As It Is. However, I
am a work in progress and have come to certain working observations in progress that affirm how
faith and even gnosis are uncontradicted by marginalized sexualities. If this oversimplified
narrative is of any edification or help to your question, I’m delighted; pass its merit on to others.
How knowledge enters into history, especially a revelatory kind of knowing which has been
transmitted across continents, oceans, cultures and languages in translations of translations, will
pale in comparison with the moment of its first flash. Gnosis cannot be written or recorded, but is
an enlightening experience direct and unmediated. The words spoken or written will attempt to
convey such an experience, but between these words and of what they attempt to convey, there is
a gap. As starlight reaching my eyes in tonight’s sky emitted so very, very long ago from its
source, so there is a gap existing between any reading or hearing teachings and the enlightenment
to which teachings point. Please remember that neither Yeshua, Socrates, Rumi, White Buffalo
Cow Woman, nor Siddhartha ever wrote. The most primordial sources of scripture were not
written by the master teaching, but by schools and traditions sometimes many generations after
the event of the master. Gospels are schools; Pistis Sophia is such a school.
The authority of school’s teaching never was and never shall be their words, but in the experience
their writing, contemplation, and integration will induce. If I approach scripture believing its
words are its authority, I am as superstitious as one relating with the Bible having come from the
sky. If, however, I approach scripture with the intuition of gnosis within me activated by the
gnosis of those before me, then I am mature and will discern the source of the actual authority of
a teaching: the enlightenment to which the teaching points.
The conversation here becomes even more delicate if one’s life experience is completely
contradicted by the scripture they’re reading; a person in a gay life-experience reading in Pistis
Sophia Book III, CHAPTER 121:
When the Saviour had said this, Mary answered and said: "My Lord, great is the compassion of
those mysteries which forgive sins at every time."
If even men on earth are compassionate, how much more then the highest mysteries? The Saviour
answered and said unto Mary in the midst of the disciples: "If to-day a king who is a man of the
world, giveth a gift to men of his like, and also forgiveth murderers and those who have
intercourse with males, and the rest of the very grievous sins which are deserving of death,--if it
becometh him who is a man of the world, to have done this, much more then have the Ineffable
and the First Mystery, who are the lords of the universe, the authority to act in all things as it
pleaseth them, that they forgive every one who shall receive mysteries.
Or in the same Gospel, Book IV, CHAPTER 127
When the Saviour had said this, Mary Magdalene answered and said: "My Lord, will then the
souls which shall be led into that region, be led through these twelve doors of the dungeons,
every one according to the judgment of which it is deserving?"
The Saviour answered and said unto Mary: "No soul at all will be led into the dragon through
these doors. But the soul[s] of the blasphemers and of those who are in the doctrines of error and
of all who teach doctrines of error, and of those who have intercourse with males, and of those
stained and impious men and of atheists and murderers and adulterers and sorcerers,--all such
souls then, if while still in life they do not repent but remain persistently in their sin, and all the
souls which have stayed behind without, that is those which have had the number of the circuits
which are appointed them in the sphere, without having repented,--well, at their last circuit will
those souls, they and all the souls of which I have just told you, be led out of [?] the jaws of the
tail of the dragon into the dungeons of the outer darkness.
—such a person will understandably feel as conflicted any woman reading ALL scripture! Many
women and homosexual people will have nothing to do with spirituality for this very reason.
Other brainwashed women and dishonest homosexuals will repress themselves and accept what
the text seems to say without challenging or confronting its contradiction to how open and
inclusive is the experience of Gnostic and Light Transmission. Sophian Tradition insists that
scriptural ‘rubs’ to its many, many women and gay and lesbian companions, priests, bishops and
elders not be avoided but be worked out and integrated for themselves and the people; how else
shall the holy sparks of Ain Sof trapped in human experiences on account of religion be released?
By you and me and every other person like Jacob, willing to struggle and to strive with ELOHIM
and become victories: Israel.
This work is often very hard, even unsupported by families and communities and electorates who
themselves are trapped, like holy sparks of Ain Sof, in husks of attachment, aversion and self-
cherishing. It seems completely contradictory to the holiness attributed to scripture that revelation
can have what I’ll call ‘blind spots’ or gaps in its knowledge. Judeo-Christian religion is founded
entirely on its writings; Protestant tradition continues to hold to the Bible’s very diction and
grammar as God’s literal Word. Questioning this Word is, from their perspective, questioning
God. Such circular reasoning with revelation is hiding behind sand bag bunkers with demeaning
scriptural verses of others stenciled across the front. Individuals unwilling to how very hard the
work of knowing is are afraid to peel back the layers of themselves: Does a verse rub me wrong
because it’s right? Or does a verse rub me wrong because it’s wrong? From what starting point
can I discern what I know?
Fundamental to the question of how and when we know anything must begin from the natural
world by which we’re evolving. Through multi-national, cross-disciplinary studies such as the
Human Genome Project, which in 2003 finished identifying all chromosomes and characteristics
of human physiology, confirmation is certain: we genetically share 98.6% the DNA of primates;
the remaining 1.4% is the mystery of how we are more than animal, how we are truly human. Dr.
Jane Goodall was the first primatologist to disprove that this mysterious distinction between
humans and the most sophisticated ‘animals’ lay in primitive tools; primates, she first discovered,
had them too. She posits to this day that language is the mystery of how we’re distinct from our
animal ancestry; our world is built and perpetuated by language.
Language is so very, very slippery. Scripture is no less slippery: neither hard and solid, nor is it
unchanging and eternal, scripture’s meanings drift and morph with people engaging it. Spiritual
revelation and its written form of scripture being our oldest concerns of language must have a
great deal to do with how we’ve learned to be more-than-animal. We’re far from done,
Greenebow, learning how to be more-than-animal. Two legs and opposable thumbs aren’t enough
for gnosis, neither is a circumcised penis, but rather a heart that has been shucked of the
egotisms, racisms, sexisms, nationalisms, and fundamentalisms internalized from our animal past.
Humanity in Sophian Tradition is not just given like a birthright, as in the U.S. Constitution, but
is attained when our animal nature (sitra ahara) which desires for itself alone is sublimated by our
truly human nature (sitra tov), desiring to serve and feel with. What ultimately liberates this heart
from all blind spots and gaps of language is the direct experience of enlightenment Western
practitioners call gnosis.
This gnosis, however, whenever spoken and certainly when written, will be filtered by the animal
past to some subtle or not so subtle degree. Look and see how it pervades the Old Testament into
the New. Even Gnostic sources betray this filtration, per your very great question! Immature
students of the Bible wonder how the voice and character of God seems to change, from wrathful
under the law to loving under grace, when a simpler explanation is that the filter is changing; the
capacity to hear and transmit more clearly with less interference from the animal past most
simply explains the ongoing changes people are experiencing with revelation. This, brother, is
precisely where our work and wrestling with the language of scripture is critical to the inclusive,
harmonious and merciful world-to-come ancient and contemporary prophets recount.
That world-to-come is brought nearer to ourselves and to our relations by our willingness to
struggle and strive with ELOHIM. Eve is not the reason women must be subordinate; women
already were subordinate before the story of Eve was ever dreamed into tradition. Sodom and
Gomorrah are not the reason homosexuals must be shunned; homosexuals already were shunned
before the destruction of such cities’ inhospitality was ever fabled into law. Idolatry is not the
reason non-Christians are to be dehumanized; indigenous people already were suspect long
before a chosen or redeemed people came into dominion. To see our species evolving in and from
an animal past and our behaviors contextualized all around us by our animal ancestors’ conflicts
for resources, territories and continuity, opens an entirely different picture of scripture.
Scriptural language, then, is not so clear or solid or unchanging, but is stratified in the shifts and
drift of time gurgling from an animal past. Revelation is by no means animal, yet revelation could
only make sense according to the pattern of a clan’s pre-established patterns and hierarchies.
Progressive scholars confront traditional, biblical hermeneutics based on the benefit such
hermeneutics served dominant males: patriarchy precedes religion, as does homophobia and
xenophobia, all preceding religion.
So, we wrestle not with flesh and blood, my brother, but with the rulers of language, against the
authorities, against the powers of our unconscious past and against bestial forces of complete
ignorance posing to speak from heavenly realms.
I encourage you re-read Pistis Sophia or any other sacred scripture not from above to below
(heaven to earth) but from below to above (earth to heaven). This is how I have come to orient
the discernment necessary between the voice of the Holy One of Being and the animal I 98.6%
still am. Mysteriously, however briefly, as the gap closes between the study of gnosis and the
experience of gnosis itself, that tiny 1.4% part called ‘Human’ encircles and penetrates every
point of the animal with overwhelming healing, power, kindness and grace.
The blind spots of revelation be healed!

The sparks of Holy Words be excavated and released to the growing Christ!
Elder Michael+
Homosexuality
 Quote
#1 Postby David_2010 » Sun May 16, 2010 4:46 pm
Hi, I'm hoping someone can help me out here, I've been told that the Pistis Sophia tends to have
some quite negative things to say about homosexuality, but, I was wondering if it was true?.
Also, if it is, are there any specific reasons for this?.
I guess I'm mainly interested 'cause I'm also gay, and would be interested in knowing.
Thanks for any help at all.
David.
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Martina
Posts: 638
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:46 am
Location: Germany
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#2 Postby Martina » Thu May 20, 2010 7:04 am
Shalom David,
this is a good question and I think the following thread answers it very well:
http://www.sophian.org/forum/viewtopic. ... osexuality

Many Blessings,
Martina
Martina
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Tau Malachi
Site Admin
Posts: 5650
Ignorance & Wisdom
 Quote
#3 Postby Tau Malachi » Thu May 20, 2010 7:36 am
Greetings and blessings in the Light of the Messiah!
Yes, in fact there are statements against homosexuality in the Pistis Sophia, just as we find them
in the New Testament. There is really not much to explain in this regard. It is a product of the
times and culture in which it was written some 2000 years ago. As we know, to this day there are
many people who continue to hold this prejudice, this ignorance, and who struggle to accept and
understand gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people, even among those who teach a path to
enlightenment. Thus it is not surprising that we should find this prejudice put forth in an ancient
sacred text.
I recall some years ago the Dali Lama speaking against homosexuality – it struck me as a rather
curious limitation on emptiness!
What this teaches us is that even very illumined individuals can be limited by the place and time,
and culture, surrounding them, and can carry some taint or trace of the ignorance, the demiurge
and archons, taking up the karma of the world, the entirety, they incarnate in.
Quite simply, when we see a taint or trace of the ignorance in Scriptures we recognize it for what
it is and we move on, dispelling the shade or shadow, and we correct the error when giving
teachings in the assembly, citing the ignorance as ignorance, and sharing what we understand as a
right view or truth.
In this regard the Sophian Gnostic tradition does not advocate this prejudice, but fully accepts
gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people as initiates, and as with heterosexual people, we
encourage committed and loving relationships, integrity in relationships.
The truth is that when we come across a view put forth by Scriptures that we can only call
prejudice, ignorance, and social injustice and oppression, it rightly humbles us, and causes us to
pause and ponder where we, ourselves, may hold on to some limited view, or some ignorance,
believing it to be “righteous” and “godly.” It invokes introspection and circumspection, seeking a
deeper knowledge and understanding of God, the True Light, and seeking to root out whatever
ignorance, negativity, might remain within us. Along with this it invokes forgiveness and
compassion, understanding the great power of ignorance, darkness, which rules this world, as
well invoking as motivation to seek social justice, or a true righteousness of unconditional love.
In this way we use such things in Scriptures as a mirror to look into ourselves, seeking to refine
our own knowledge, understanding and wisdom, and seeking the maturation of our own faith,
hope and love.
Along with this, however, we may also seek a deeper spiritual interpretation of such points in
Scripture. As an example, when we see a prohibition against homosexuality in the Scriptures we
may very well take it into a contemplation of the need for the cultivation and balance of the
sacred masculine and sacred feminine within ourselves, and as an invocation of a contemplation
of the true spiritual or mystical meaning of the sacred marriage and mystery of the bridal
chamber. In this respect, inwardly, there must, indeed, be a “proper union” of male and female,
lest our enlightenment and liberation cannot transpire.
In the Christian Kabbalah, of course, we would also speak of the need for the union of the desire
to receive and desire to give, which is represented by “female” and “male,” respectively.
So even from within ignorance we can draw out sparks of wisdom, and we do!
As for prejudice and injustice in this world, and the taint of the ignorance even reaching into
mystical spirituality or enlightenment teachings – that just serves to support the Gnostic view of
the ignorance, the darkness, which tends to dominate and pervade this world, and the need for our
realization of transcendence.
May we be empowered to overcome the ignorance through the grace of the Risen Christ.
Amen.
Blessings & shalom!

Tau Malachi
Sophia Fellowship
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jefferychorton
Posts: 3
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Statements of homosexuality and transgenderism
 Quote
#4 Postby jefferychorton » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:34 am
Tau Malachi,
I am new to Ecclesia Pistic Sophia but consider myself bisexual and transgender. It was very
refreshing to read your comments about acceptance of glbt persons within the Sophian tradition. I
tend to believe there should not be roadblocks to enlightenment, but instead there should be
support and encouragement as you have done.
Thank you very much,
Jeff
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Tau Malachi
Site Admin
Posts: 5650
Greetings and welcome!
 Quote
#5 Postby Tau Malachi » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:55 am
Greetings Jeff!
You are welcome - this is an important teaching for the dispelling of ignorance and for healing,
for the fullness of the love of Christ.
I'm glad to see you here and look forward to your continued participation in our online
community.
Peace be with you!

Tau Malachi
Sophia Fellowship

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JamesNielsen570
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:06 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
homosexuality
 Quote
#6 Postby JamesNielsen570 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:53 pm
Greetings
I am also new to this online community and would like to add a bit to this. I am not inclined to
hmosexuality myself, but I've met people who are and it must be said that their preference
reflects little on who they are on the inside. A really good point to look at is when socrates made
a speech that spoke out against male on male apprenticeship, the fact rich men would take
adolescent males against their will. It's important to note what W. H. D. Rouse said
''Socrates turns even this to noble effect, when he draws men's thoughts away from vulgarity to
the noble prospect of love in seeking ideal beauty in mind and spirit."
I know that it does not take a homosexual to succomb to perversity but in society it's an easy
scapegoat. But, as Tau Malachi pointed out, back some 2000 years ago it was an even more
delicate moral issue, inasmuch as the threat that the pagan belief system held. The plain and
simple truth is that love is love and it comes without force. The most important part is wether or
not one is true to the responsibility that comes with loving anything and if someone is damaging
the soul of what they claim to love how can it be called love? I don't believe the soul can see who
or what is doing the damage, it absorbs constantly. Whether negative or positive it just absorbs
and can't tell the difference between one gender and another.
I hope I've added some usefull insight to this sensitive subject.
Shalom and may all find true love and the beauty it holds.
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jefferychorton
Posts: 3
Contact:
Homosexuality
 Quote
#7 Postby jefferychorton » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:46 pm
James,
I completely agree with you. People are people and love is love. To me as long as it is done in a
loving, committed relationship, there is nothing wrong with it. I have met many homosexuals that
had the love of Christ in them. I had the fortune of running the sound board at a gay wedding.
This was a beautiful ceremony and I felt the Spirit of God was present.
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JamesNielsen570
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:06 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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#8 Postby JamesNielsen570 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:15 pm
Greetings Jeffery,
I think it's wonderful that you've been able to share in such a beautiful expirience. I pray that they
are blessed with long and fruitful growth in their relationships.
One more comment on this subject has just been brought to my attention. My girlfriend just
informed me that she was surprised I would comment on this discusion because of how I tend to
be made uncormfortible by male affection. It just goes to show how word and action must go
hand and hand. The best reason I have for this is the fact I have shown tendencies towards OCD
creating a difficulty touching anyone physically. Most of the setbacks I've been plagued with
from this ''disoreder'' are almost all but gone. But this goes to show that we all, no matter how
much we are able to comprehend, always have to be conscious of our actions and how they are
matched with our words.
Everyday is a learning expirience and a chance to improve on what we are. living together with
all creation is living with God.
Thank you for helping come to this realization.
Shalom and God bless!

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jefferychorton
Posts: 3
Contact:
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#9 Postby jefferychorton » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:59 pm
James,
I have a background in psychology (B.A. in psych) so I do understand. I'm learning at this point
as far as Gnosticism is concerned but I'm well aware of the love of God. We have to realize that
everything we do and say can have a positive or a negative influence on people. I have known
people who wouldn't even set foot into a church because of the negativity expressed by many
towards the GLBT community. I think we need to follow Christ's example by loving others, no
matter if they're different from us or not. For many, we may be the only example of Christ they
may see. May we all be One in Christ who strengthens us.
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Cyd
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Tracy California
greetings Teacher
 Quote
#10 Postby Cyd » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:29 am
I am happy that the Sophian Tradition has this stance on these issues
I am not gay myself But have open Mind some of my good friends are gay and Transgendered
and Love all people with open arms . the More i read on this site the more i am seeing the true
Teaching . I am still New I may question things every so often so Please don't take Offense to
that . I don't question to Be Offensive it just to Further understand
Friendship or Romance or both? Between David and Jonathan
 Quote
#1 Postby Aaron » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:53 am
Shalom! Grace, Mercy and Blessings multiplied unto all who read, post, and visit in the Name
and Light of the Word!
I am unsure how to best present this topic, this question, in this forum. Even so, may the Mother
Spirit speak!
I sense a bond between the future King David and current king Saul's son Jonathan in 1 Samuel
20. The bond is clearly a volitional commitment of Souls, a reciprocal trade off between friends.
There appears, implicitly and explicitly, to also be a relationship between bodies, names, forms,
histories by chemistry and exclusivity.
Has anyone, or everyone, had insight into this erotic and possessive relationship between David
and Jonathan?
Or is the theme and occurrences merely customs of times not our own and places not
"westernized" (before westernization)?
Or might I (we) be projecting our own modern thinking and interpretations back onto and into
biblical texts and stories in order to see and read what we have been conditioned to see and read?
What we want to see and read?
Humbly receptive to exploration,
Aaron the neophyte Gnostic

Yours Truly,
Brother Aaron
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Elder Gideon
Site Admin
Posts: 1372
Bromance
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#2 Postby Elder Gideon » Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:53 am
Shalom Aaron:
Jonathan lies slain upon your high places.

I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan;
greatly beloved were you to me;
your love to me was wonderful,
passing the love of women (2 Samuel 1:26).
This question you ask haunts many faithful brothers. A parallel question for faithful sisters
regards the intimacy of Ruth and Naomi. To isolate intimacy itself to any one layer of human
experience cannot be done, for intimacy is as multi-layered as human experience itself: physical,
emotional, intellectual, and spiritual. When a biblical text neither confirms nor denies any
specific layer of intimacy between characters, the reader is left with their interpretation, which,
more than the text itself, will always say a bit more about their own relationship with gender,
holiness, and themself.
Consider the furor sparked by any suggestion in literature or cinema that Yeshua and Magdalene
were physically intimate. As Jean-Yves Leloup answered the Eastern Orthodox leaders in his
Sacred Embrace of Jesus and Mary, Gospels neither confirm nor deny their physical intimacy.
Long before his book and since, any debate about their intimacy says more about the debaters.
Oversimplified, the conservative perspective resists any association of Yeshua's humanity with
sexuality; liberal perspectives insist that humanity, even Yeshua's, is founded on sexuality.
Distortions abound from both ends. The conservative limit of Yeshua's humanity is rooted in
patristics and medieval theology; the liberal revisions of Yeshua's humanity stem from secular
humanism and deconstruction. Both strip: Traditional views overemphasize divinity and
contemporary views overemphasize humanity. One could spiral their entire spiritual or academic
life in this conundrum of or. The greater rigor, one which our lineage proffers, is and.
Approaching what 1 Samuel has to say of the relationship between David and Jonathan supports
a spectrum of interpretation. While I won't insist the text can be read only one way, I'm neither
threatened nor offended by any suggestion that their intimacy was also physical. Allowing this
possibility to be present in scripture isn't revising, but opening it to speak to all of human
experience. Evidence from ancient, pre-Christian male cultures are replete with examples of
homosocial, even homosexual, bonds. To ask at what layers David and Jonathan related is from a
post-religious perspective, from amidst an endless, gender tangle complicated by medieval
Europe. Prior, as in bisexual Mediterranean cultures, the very idea of a bond between men was a
spectrum, the physical expression of which had neither shame nor taboo. Alexander the Great, a
warrior even greater and more savage than King David, was bisexual. Softer than our
contemporary LGBTQIA mine fields discussing gender was in ancient times simply being sexual.
This is our work, accepting ourselves so deeply

that light may be released from within our skin.
Elder Gideon
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Tau Malachi
Site Admin
Posts: 5650
Re: Friendship or Romance or both? Between David and Jonatha
 Quote
#3 Postby Tau Malachi » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:29 am
Greetings and blessings in the Holy Light of the Messiah!
While perhaps this passage might be read to suggest a physical, sexual love affair between David
and Jonathan, there is also a deeper and more esoteric interpretation that might be good to
consider.
Perhaps there is a deeper love than a romantic, sexual love, and in comparison to the average or
typical experience of romance, it is a love that might be more satisfying and fulfilling, going well
beyond these bodies and this life. This, of course, is not to say that a deeper spiritual and
unconditional love might not be joined with a romantic, sexual love, but rather simply to say it
can be completely independent and distinct from romantic love, and not involve anything
physical or sexual at all.
In this regard we might consider the dialogue of Yeshua with St. Peter in the Gospel of St. John
in which Yeshua inquires of St. Peter if he loves him three times, and every time Peter answers
that he does Yeshua tells him, “Feed my sheep.” It’s a curious dialogue in English because the
same word, “love,” seems to be used by the Lord and Peter, but in Greek each uses a very
different word. You see, Yeshua is asking him if Peter has unconditional love for him, a deep,
abiding spiritual love and true soul bond – true cleaving, and Peter keeps responding that he loves
him as a friend; hence, a lesser and more restricted love, a conditional love.
In Greek there is also a word for romantic love, distinct from friendship love and unconditional,
spiritual love; romantic love is understood as the most limited, or restricted manifestation of love,
while friendship love and spiritual love are greater and greater manifestations of love, the
unconditional, spiritual love being the perfection and fullness of love.
The depth of love that may evolve between good friends and best friends can run very deep, and
yet more, unconditional and spiritual love, such as that between a true and faithful disciple and
their tzaddik can run deeper still – the passion of spiritual love that can occur between a tzaddik
and disciple is unimaginable until one has experienced it for themselves.
We know that David and Jonathan were the best of friends, and that they went through a great
deal together, but remember, David is accounted as a prophet, and it could be that Jonathan was
an apprentice in the way of the prophets, David being his teacher and guide, his tzaddik, as well
as a best friend in the world. This can be another interpretation of the passage quoted, certainly
so.
This question of love becomes a very interesting and important practice as we enter into spiritual
community, for the more than seeking to be loved, we seek to love, understanding that it is in
loving others that we experience love, and understanding that the very essence of the law and the
Way is the generation of the Sacred Heart – love and compassion. Thus, we seek to come with
uplifted energy, an open heart and mind, seeking not only to take, but to give, understanding that
our experience is the radiant display of our own thoughts, emotions and energy; and with this we
labor to love, first as a true friend, and then, perhaps, realizing a spiritual love – the bonds that are
eternal and radiant with the glory of Christ, the Anointing.
All of this said, in our community and teachings there is no issue about whether a person is
straight, lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender, and we do not look into scripture to justify our
view, but rather the love of Christ is our justification – having an open heart is our justification.
Shalom Aleichem!
Tau Malachi
Sophia Fellowship
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RoseOMagdala
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:31 pm
Re: Friendship or Romance or both? Between David and Jonathan
 Quote
#4 Postby RoseOMagdala » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:17 pm
I was going to start a similar topic on the subject of the relationship between Ruth and Naomi,
which Elder Gideon briefly touched upon in this thread, and I suspect the responses would have
been the same. In regards to this relationship, what is always most striking is Ruth's vow:
"Where you go, I will go;

Where you lodge, I will lodge;
Your people shall be my people,
And your God my God.
Where you die, I will die— there will I be buried.
May the Lord do thus and so to me, and more as well,
If even death parts me from you!" - Ruth 1:16-17
Incidentally, the first time I heard this vow spoken was during a marriage ceremony.
While it's obvious in both these relationships, there is no clear indication of a romantic or sexual
partnership, I do feel peoples personal interpretations are valid when the language used is often
so similar to that between the male and female couples. It is said for example that Ruth 'cleaved'
to Naomi, with the same word for 'cleave' as described in Genesis in regards to the relationship
between men and women following Adam and Eve. There is without doubt a deeper, esoteric
meaning to both the story and their relationship, which someone wiser and better versed than
myself could go further in on, in the same as there is between David and Johnathan.
However, it should be acknowledged why LGBT people such as myself go looking for same-sex
romantic subtext in scripture. It isn't so much for validation as it is representation. The same
could be said of the purpose of Lady Magdalene as a Female Messiah, an example that the Christ
is capable of becoming one in Womans form just as it was in Mans. Just as Lady Magdalene is
something of a symbol of the Sacred Feminine being equal to that of the Masculine, so to reading
about enlightened figures in scripture who may have been gay or lesbian can show that romantic
love between same sex couples is equal and no less blessed than that of heterosexual couples.
Let's be frank; it is much easier for a heterosexual person to relate to descriptions of the love-play
union of Male and Female, reflected in the union of Yeshua and Magdalene, than it is for people
like myself who are romantically attracted to those of the same gender. Not to say that the deeper
meaning, the coming together of masculine and feminine energies, goes over our heads - but to
enact the union with our own partners almost gives the implication that one of us needs to change
our gender to complement the other lest there is some sort of unbalance. In many Neo-Pagan
religions, as well as some Gnostic ones to, there is a heavy focus on the male and female coming
together sexually in order to 'complete' each other (the God and Goddess, Heiros Gamos), as if
that is the 'ideal union'. Indeed I've also seen posts on this forum talk often how the
"romantic/sexual union between man and woman compliments the Mother and Father", or
Bridegroom and Bride, with no mention on how or if same-sex couples also have a spiritual
importance to their unions and how it compliments the Holy One.
And I'm also aware that in Kabbalah, when discussing 'male and female', one is not truly
discussing physical relations or genders but the act of giving and receiving. Still, the language
used is often reflective of "heteronormative" relations (the assumption that all lovers are male and
female), which can be a little uncomfortable. Nearly every clear, outright, declaration of romantic
love in scripture is between a man and woman, which is to be expected of a book written in times
when open homosexuality meant persecution and death. It is to be expected that Naomi would
want Ruth to remarry a man to regain her status, and still the book focuses more on the love
shared between the two of them, if their relationship was ever more than mother and daughter-in-
law. The same is said of David and Johnathan, and also of the Centurion and his 'beloved servant'
whom Yeshua healed.
Of course I'm not saying there is one 'right way' to read these characters and their relationship,
just as there is no 'one way' to read scripture, and everyone is entitled to their own interpretation.
I do find it very unlikely that, in the thousands of years in which the scriptures were written and
compiled, not a single character - either historical or fictional - was gay or bisexual, even if it
would have been kept hidden or as subtext. I do also think it important for LGBT people to see
themselves reflected positively in scripture where they can, even if it is a personal interpretation.
I don't feel that reading these characters are homosexual or lesbian partners takes away from any
love that is also present between a student and teacher or another deeper relationship. After all,
surely Yeshua was Mary's Tzaddik as well as her Consort!
I do appreciate that LGBT people are accepted and welcome in the Sophian Gnostic path, so it is
good to be able to openly discuss subjects such as these which would otherwise be shunned in
orthodoxy.
May we all meet Our Beloved in perfect unity.

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Elder Gideon
Site Admin
Posts: 1372
Deliverance
 Quote
#5 Postby Elder Gideon » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:29 am
Shalom Sister:
Your reflection here is well-balanced, moderate, and respectful of everyone. I very much
appreciated its tone. Sexuality in the ancient world varies over such a range when public and
private life are understood for their respective spaces. Your post is touching upon the public
invisibility of same-sex affection outside of what is heteronormative in the biblical world. The
reasons—even the demands—for such heteronormative standards are very complicated, requiring
analyses outside of this forum on the spiritual life and practice. Besides, the past is past. The
future is a movement forward from within ourselves. Praise The One that so much impressive
work has been done, particularly in this last century, by just and righteous human beings who've
modeled freedom that doesn't depend upon outside circumstances.
This was a powerful contemplation this week on retreat with some companions: Freedom is an
internal event. When we remember that the very word for 'gospel' is not to be confused with a
text or doctrinal claim but the Greek euangelion, we're invited into something much more subtle,
internal, and profound. I understand from the etymology of this in the pre-Christian Greek world
that the connotation of euangelion was more than simple 'good news'. Euangelion pulls more
extremely. It is more like the herald or messenger returning to our village—huddled in hiding and
fear of an approaching army—that the enemy has already been defeated, that we're delivered, that
we'll live. This is the fullness of the good news, the euangelion, the deliverance.
While this sounds far afield of our contemplation on representation of marginalized people, I
share it because in my own journey growing up bisexual, I've observed that accusers and
persecutors outside of me have had power and dominion over me to shame and belittle only
because of the same energies accusing and persecuting me from the inside. Imagine two magnets
on either side of a piece of paper: So is the power of any external persecutor, drawing up to the
surface the same internal persecutor.
This world is never going to change enough. LGBTQ representation in entertainment and media
will not change hearts. Laws for marriage equality—like other civil rights—will not change
hearts in workplaces, neighborhoods, or even in family. While we can and must labor for changes
of hearts and minds, our authority to do so will not come from our words 'against' theirs, but from
our heart for theirs. This authority to which I'm appealing IS the freedom of the gospel. If I'm
internally free, I have authority.
It is this authority that so impressed the crowds when Yeshua had finished preaching the Sermon
on the Mount: Now when Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were astounded at
his teaching, for he taught them as one having authority, and not as their scribes (Matthew 7:28-
29). From where did his authority come? The religion will say, 'He was the Son of God.' That's
not an answer for him nor for any of us who've ever been marginalized by religion. Yeshua's
authority came from the breakthrough to Christ within himself.
This same desire for the breakthrough within others IS his earthly ministry, that we too
breakthrough into an identity of complete freedom unconditioned by circumstances in this world.
It is from this same internal freedom that Gandhi generated nonviolence trainings of thousands of
Indians to successfully resist the British. It is his legacy that Mandela applied in South Africa and
Dr. King in the American South and Chavez in the West. Yeshua's model of internal freedom is
the gospel for these and for you and I.
You have a gospel. I have a gospel. What is your good news? Mine is that I've come to recognize
the Christ—a Presence of Awareness—despite all of the reasons, pain, and grief assuming I
couldn't. Realizing this, living from this, embodying this, is ongoing and ever-changing. But
because of my gospel, my breakthrough, I no longer look at the world but through it. Opponents
aren't against me. The world is not against me, because 'me' is no longer what I assumed it to be.
Me is empty.
To read the Sermon on the Mount closely through this lens of internal freedom reveals a deep
teaching on no-self, on ain: nothing-ness. "I" can't love my enemies. "I" don't forgive. "I" will
always struggle walking extra miles with or offering additional clothes to others. "Who" is this
that can do all of this? Not "I" but Not-I: Ain. "I" isn't even necessary to act or do. To the degree
that I can enter into this awareness of no-self, of ain, and integrate this with every arising of "I" is
how I come to deeper and deeper embodiment of my freedom and breakthrough.
When racial and gender performances are rooted in the awareness of emptiness, they are free.
Their energy, words, eyes, and actions have authority that can still astonish crowds today. Aren't
we hearing something of the force of lucidity? From where does it come? It's not intellectual. It's
not even emotional. Lucidity comes from a deeper place of awareness, a space behind the heart,
capable of cutting deeply through ignorance without ever cutting people. Otherwise, combative
narratives of oppression and exclusion only loop upon themselves with no way out. An oppressed
consciousness cannot speak of freedom for its oppressed position is defined by oppressors. The
only way out of this oppressor-oppressed lock is by a third, transcendental point: one's gospel.
It often takes such painful, awful circumstances of duress for individuals to seek and
breakthrough into their internal freedom. This is certainly the case for women around the world,
as well as minorities of every kind and experience. To push and breakthrough such resistance in
prayer, meditation, compassionate teachings and communities, is exactly how the internal
freedom is merited. It's subtle. Freedom is only a word apart from the experience of oppression.
So it is to all who've ever experienced oppression that Yeshua edifies and empowers in the words
opening the Sermon on the Mount. These are the privileged ones who are most qualified to hear
their gospels.
Anyone with ears, listen to their deliverance!
Elder Gideon

Sophian Gnosticism About Homosexuality

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Romans 1:20-27 "The Homosexuality Passage"

#1 Postby Jordan » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:23 pm

Hopefully that can get the ball rolling on this passage!

Blessings and Shalom!

#2 Postby Shirah » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:37 am

#3 Postby Tau Malachi » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:50 pm

Blessings & shalom!

#4 Postby Tau Malachi » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:48 am

Blessings & shalom!

Ecclesia Pistis Sophia

Pistis Sophia Chapter 147

#1 Postby Greenebow » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:36 pm

The Shadows of Ignorance

#2 Postby Tau Malachi » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:28 pm

Salutations in the Light of the Messiah, the Spiritual Sun!

I will keep you in my heart and my prayers.

Blessings & shalom!

#3 Postby Elder Gideon » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:37 pm

Or in the same Gospel, Book IV, CHAPTER 127

The blind spots of revelation be healed!

#1 Postby David_2010 » Sun May 16, 2010 4:46 pm

Thanks for any help at all.

#2 Postby Martina » Thu May 20, 2010 7:04 am

http://www.sophian.org/forum/viewtopic. ... osexuality

Ignorance & Wisdom

#3 Postby Tau Malachi » Thu May 20, 2010 7:36 am

Greetings and blessings in the Light of the Messiah!

Blessings & shalom!

Statements of homosexuality and transgenderism

Thank you very much,

Greetings and welcome!

#5 Postby Tau Malachi » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:55 am

Peace be with you!

Ecclesia Pistis Sophia

#6 Postby JamesNielsen570 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:53 pm

I hope I've added some usefull insight to this sensitive subject.

#7 Postby jefferychorton » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:46 pm

#8 Postby JamesNielsen570 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:15 pm

Thank you for helping come to this realization.

Shalom and God bless!

#9 Postby jefferychorton » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:59 pm

#10 Postby Cyd » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:29 am

Friendship or Romance or both? Between David and Jonathan

#1 Postby Aaron » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:53 am

Humbly receptive to exploration,

Aaron the neophyte Gnostic

#2 Postby Elder Gideon » Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:53 am

Jonathan lies slain upon your high places.

This is our work, accepting ourselves so deeply

Re: Friendship or Romance or both? Between David and Jonatha

#3 Postby Tau Malachi » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:29 am

Greetings and blessings in the Holy Light of the Messiah!

Re: Friendship or Romance or both? Between David and Jonathan

#4 Postby RoseOMagdala » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:17 pm

"Where you go, I will go;

May we all meet Our Beloved in perfect unity.

#5 Postby Elder Gideon » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:29 am

Anyone with ears, listen to their deliverance!

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