1 - Bascis of Roughness Measurement

Picture of product or
service
Crop/cut to fit. Do not
stretch!
Seminar Chennai
Torsten Bahnsen
Mahr 2007
1 · Seminar Chennai
Topics
1. Basics of roughness measurements at real work (ca.1.5 h)
2. International standards (ca. 30 min)
3. Future trends of surface measuring systems (ca. 30min.)
Mahr 2007
Picture of product or
service
Crop/cut to fit. Do not
stretch! Basics of roughness
measurement at real
work
Torsten Bahnsen
Mahr 2007
Topics
1. Filter settings and what happened
• Cut off according to ISO
• What happened to the result with different Lc
• Difference between RC- to 50% Gaussian filter
• Automatic choice of tracing length and Lc
• How to set the filter on short tracing length
2. Mean parameter
• Advantages/Disadvantages Ra, Rz
• “converting” Ra -Rz
3. External Filter on the shop floor measurement
• Tip radius, filter, measuring conditions
• Choice of probes (Example: Skidded measurement)
• Absorbing elements
• New Filter for the production?
• Measurments on the shop floor?
Mahr 2007
Roughness measurements are easy
1. All settings in the surface measurement are
standardizes. (ISO, JIS,…)
=> Target : Comparable measurements
2. Attention to countries or union standards
3. The evaluation system has to set to the settings
according to the drawing
4. Documentation of the results, that third parties can
understand the measurement settings
5. Optical and tracing results are different to
compare (sometimes not comparable)
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Choice of cut off and tracing length
according to DIN EN ISO 4288
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How periodic and aperiodic profiles
looks like?
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Choice of cut off and tracing length
according to DIN EN ISO 4288
Point
distance
λc [mm] λs [µm] λc / λs Rtip [µm] Rz (Ra) [µm]
Max values in
(maximum µm
value)
0,08 2,5 30 0,5 0,5 bis 0,1 ( bis 0,02)
0,25 2,5 100 2 0,5 0,1- 0,5 (0,02-0,1)
0,8 2,5 300 2* 0,5 0,5 – 10 (0,1 – 2,0)
2,5 8 300 5 1,5 10 – 50 (2,0 – 10)
8 25 300 10 5 50 – 200 (10- 50)
* Surfaces of Ra >0,5 µm or Rz >3 µm can use a tip radius of 5µm without big deviation
Mahr 2007
between the measuring results.
Filter graphic of λs-Filter, roughness,
waviness and form
noise roughness waviness form
Mahr 2007
practical example :
Pt 9.825 µm
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Work of a low pass filter (example 1)
Wt 2.775 µm
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Work of a low pass filter (example 2)
Wt 1.424 µm
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Practical example 2 :
Pt 9.825 µm
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Work of a high pass filter (example 1)
Rz 7.339 µm, Ra 1.677 µm
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Work of a high pass filter (example 2)
Rz 8.174 µm, Ra 1.721 µm
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Effects of cut off choice to a
measurement
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measurement
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measurement
result = roughness ( => correct choice of Lc)
result = roughness + waviness

(=> wrong choice of Lc)
Different Filter 1,2
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Difference between
RC-and Gauss- Filter
• The influence of the filter type is minimal

according to the form deviation
• The main difference is based on the filter

transmission curve
– The curve changed from 75% to 50%
– Experience : The differed transmission curves
accurse result differences of sometimes 10%
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2 RC and 50% Gaussian Filters
1 – 50% Gauss Filter

2 – 2RC Filter
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A simple solution :
Automatic choice of filter and tracing length
Basic rule:
Analyzing the type
Test measurement
of profile
Profile
Decision No
periodic?
Yes
Periodic profile
aperiodic profile
Mahr 2007
A simple solution :
1. Start of the measurement; Rz and RSm are calculated

with Lc 0.25 and Lc 0.8mm
2. Decision aperiodic or periodic and is the result according
to the ISO standard. If not, carry on the measurement
3. Measurement continue
4. Decision if the results are according to ISO standard.
If not, carry on the measurement
5. End of the measurement with standard drive units; result with Lc= 2.5mm
Mahr 2007
A simple solution :
Advantages of this function:

• You need not a test measurement
• the user need not to select a filter
• the system recognize the type of profile (periodic or aperiodic)
• the system do the evaluation according to the
ISO standard (Rz, Ra or RSM)
• the required ISO rules are saved in the system
Mahr 2007
What is to do on short tracing length?
1. Try to set the system according to ISO 4288
2. If this is not possible: Reducing of the tracing parts (n)

Try from to reduce is n=5 to e.g. n=2
Recommendation: Evaluate a own mean value, regards to a
repeatable measurement
3. Last choice: Using of unfiltered P-Parameter

Reason: The waviness get minimized on short tracing length
Mahr 2007
Traditional Surface Texture
Parameters and Functions
•
Some of these parameters can also be calculated from unfiltered and

waviness profiles. (P and W families of parameters)
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How Many Parameters Should be
Specified
In order to try to completely and fully characterize

the surface using parameters, between 3 and 6
parameters must be chosen and should contain at
least 1 of each of the types (i.e., 1 amplitude, 1
spacing and 1 hybrid parameter).
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Ra = AA = CLA
Rq = RMS
On majority of prints only Ra is

specified.
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Roughness Average Ra
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Ra – Roughness Average
Advantages
• The most commonly used parameter to monitor a production process.
• Default parameter on a drawing if not otherwise specified.
• Available even in the least sophisticated instruments.
• Statistically a very stable, repeatable parameter.
• Good for random type surfaces, such as grinding.
• A good parameter where a process is under control and where the
conditions are always the same, e.g. cutting tips, speeds, feeds,
cutting fluid (lubricant).
Disadvantages
• Not a good discriminator for different types of surfaces (no distinction
is made between peaks and valleys).
• Not a good measure of sealed surfaces.
Mahr 2007
Two Different Surfaces with the
same Ra
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Ra, Rq Parameters
• Roughness average Ra is the arithmetic
average of the absolute values of the
roughness profile ordinates.
• Root mean square (RMS) roughness Rq is the

root mean square average of the roughness
profile ordinates.
Mahr 2007
Rq – Root Mean Roughness
Rq is more sensitive to peaks and valleys then Ra,

because the amplitudes are squared.
Applications
• Very similar to Ra, which practically replaced it

for general use.
• Used to control very fine surfaces in scientific
measurements and statistical evaluations.
Mahr 2007
Ratio of Root Mean Square to
Arithmetic Average Roughness
• Theoretical Ratio of Sine Waves Rq/Ra 1.11
• Actual ratios of Rq/Ra for various processes:
Turning 1.17 to 1.26
Milling 1.16 to 1.40
Surface grinding 1.22 to 1.27
Plunge grinding 1.26 to 1.28
Soft honing 1.29 to 1.48
Hard honing 1.50 to 2.10
Electrical discharge machining 1.24 to 1.27
Shot peening 1.24 to 1.28
• Practical first approximation of Rq/Ra
For most processes 1.25
For honing 1.45
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Rz, Rmax Parameter
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Rz – Mean Peak-to-Valley Height
Rmax – Maximum Peak-to-Valley Height
Applications
• Rz is more sensitive than Ra to changes in surface finish as
maximum profile heights and not averages are being
examined.
• Rmax is useful for surfaces where a single defect is not
permissible, e.g. a seal with a single scratch.
• Rz and Rmax are used together to monitor the variations of
surface finish in a production process. Similar values of Rz
and Rmax indicate a consistent surface finish, while a
significant difference indicates a surface defect in an
otherwise consistent surface.
Mahr 2007
Comparison of Ra and Rz
Ra and Rz are the most frequently used surface
parameters
Feature Ra Rz
Usage World-wide Mostly Europe
Measuring instrument Simple More advanced
Dispersion of measured values Low Higher
Assessment from the profile graph Not possible Possible
Expressiveness Bad Good
Influence of exceptional profile Low Slightly higher

peaks
Measurements with optical Not possible Possible up to
instruments a point
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1. Rz Upper Limit
(Converting Ra into Rz)
2. Ra lower Limit
(Converting Rz into Ra)
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Rz to Ra Conversion
• BS 1134/1-1972 Rz = x4 - x7 Ra
• Siemens Recommendations Rz = x4 - x10 Ra
– Actual ratio depends upon the shape of the profile.
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Different profiles needs sometime more parameter to
describe there characteristic
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External Filter
1.) Filter based on probe tips
2.) Measuring settings
3.) Choice of probe
Skidded probes (Ad- and disadvantages)
4.) Absorbing of environment problems
5.) New filter methods?
8.) Measurement in the production
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Tip geometry and profile
characteristic as filter
Measuring force:
Probe tip 0,75 mN
Open angle
max. 120°
120°
r=2 µm
Comprimised profile Proportional zoomed profile
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Also measuring conditon do filter the profile:
• The tracing length ln work like an high pass filter:
– If we shorten ln, the profile get less influence of long
waves. The profile include less long waves.
– Hint: ln muss minimum as long as the biggest wave
length which you like to evaluate
• point distance work like a low pass filter:
– If you get less points per mm, you get less short wave
componenets of the profile
– Hint: You need at least 7 points on the shortest wave
length
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Advantage Skidded probes:
small vibration circuit
Measuring
Drive unit circuit
Probe tip
Skid
Measured
surface
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The „typical“ one skidded probe
• One skidded
probes are the
most used ones
based on over all
measurement.
They are used
for plane convex
and convave
surface. They
are also used in
bores.
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Example I
Step 1
Measured Profile I
Step 2
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Example II
Measured Profile II
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Example III
Real profile
Measured profile
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Absorbing of envirements vibrations with
„Absorbing elements“
Standard
System
Leveled regulated
system
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New Filter methods?
1. Gaussian filter (K-, B-,)

without pre- and post cut off
2. Robust Filter
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Example: Drawings
FPRRG 0,8x5 / Ra 1,6
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Robust Gaussian filter:
Principial drawing
Weighting function
Weighting function
Measured profile
Mean linie
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Robust Gaussian filter: Example
• Standard filtered profile
• Robust filtered profile
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Robust Gaussian filter: Advantages
• Function related, some errors do not change the

mean line filtering
• Real, based on the function related values for
Rp and Rv
• FPRRG could be the replacement for Rk, Rpk
and Rvk - one Filter for a lot of tasks !
• Pre- and post cutoff are eliminated:
Evaluation length ln = Tracing length lt
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Measurement on the shop floor
• Using of fixtures
• Start the measurements with automatic
programs
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Surface measurements on the shop floor
Fixture
Layers
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Vorrichtungen
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CNC-Messplätze
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Conclusion
Different solution are possible:
1. Help tools of the measuring system

(Automatic choice of Cut off and tracing length)
2. Absorbing of environment vibration
3. Measuring programs with or without fixtures
4. Documentation of the measuring results
Requirement: Third parties should understand
the measurement and their settings
Mahr 2007

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Picture of product or

0,25 2,5 100 2 0,5 0,1- 0,5 (0,02-0,1)

0,8 2,5 300 2* 0,5 0,5 – 10 (0,1 – 2,0)

2,5 8 300 5 1,5 10 – 50 (2,0 – 10)

8 25 300 10 5 50 – 200 (10- 50)

noise roughness waviness form

Rz 7.339 µm, Ra 1.677 µm

Rz 8.174 µm, Ra 1.721 µm

result = roughness ( => correct choice of Lc)

result = roughness + waviness

Different Filter 1,2

• The influence of the filter type is minimal

• The main difference is based on the filter

1 – 50% Gauss Filter

1. Start of the measurement; Rz and RSm are calculated

Advantages of this function:

1. Try to set the system according to ISO 4288

2. If this is not possible: Reducing of the tracing parts (n)

3. Last choice: Using of unfiltered P-Parameter

Some of these parameters can also be calculated from unfiltered and

In order to try to completely and fully characterize

On majority of prints only Ra is

• Root mean square (RMS) roughness Rq is the

Rq is more sensitive to peaks and valleys then Ra,

• Very similar to Ra, which practically replaced it

Measuring instrument Simple More advanced

Dispersion of measured values Low Higher

Assessment from the profile graph Not possible Possible

Expressiveness Bad Good

Influence of exceptional profile Low Slightly higher

• Siemens Recommendations Rz = x4 - x10 Ra

– Actual ratio depends upon the shape of the profile.

Comprimised profile Proportional zoomed profile

1. Gaussian filter (K-, B-,)

FPRRG 0,8x5 / Ra 1,6

• Robust filtered profile

• Function related, some errors do not change the

Different solution are possible:

1. Help tools of the measuring system

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