BORDERLAND BEAT LALO PODCAST

Translation by Cruz “A”

PERSON 1/P1 IS BUGGS

PERSON 2/P2 IS LALO

PERSON 3/P3 IS RADIO HOST. MARK ARAGON

P2: I was incarcerated...

P3: And we are live gentlemen, it is all on you.

P1: Okay we’re live?

P3: Yeah, we are live.

P1: Welcome to the podcast, Borderland Beat podcast. My name is

Buggs and Mark Aragon who usually joins us is not with us today.
He's actually directing the whole show here.

P3: I'm up here watching.

P1: He's watching. So we have a very special guest with us

tonight and ill introduce him in a little bit. It's going to be
a very interesting show, I think. We are going to talk about
some old stuff way back then but before we do that I just want
to give a little bit of an update as to what's going on over
there with some of the things at Borderland Beat. So on November
4th, really early in the morning, we started to get a lot of
videos and messages from Agua Prieta that there was some
confrontation that started at like 3 in the morning. There were
some cars that were burning, they ended up finding two bodies
and I started to get information, we did actually, the team that
La Linea from Juarez was worried that a cell of Los Salazar had
mentioned that they were going to cross into the state
Chihuahua. So La Linea had actually entered Agua Prieta and they
got into some conflict with this cell of Los Salazar. I think, I
can't confirm but I was told that the two men that were killed
were La Linea hitmen, I'm not sure. So anyway, that happened

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really early like 3 in the morning. There's a video we posted on
our (Borderland Beat) blog and we also posted on our Borderland
Beat page and we actually did a podcast that day.

P3: Yeah, we were up.

P1: So we had to take it down.

P3: Exactly.

P1: We ended up showing up an execution video but around 2

o'clock, that's when the incident of the LeBaron family
happened. No one really started to get a lot of information till
later in the day. In fact, we started to get a lot of
information but we were here in the studio doing this podcast. I
actually did an update of the Agua Prieta incident because we
already had it. But anyway, what happened was, a lot of
information is not confirmed like anything but we did listen to
the press conference by the Mexican Government and military,
they gave an update as to what happened. A lot of if matches to
a degree what happened with us with the LeBaron family, there is
a lot of information that people are talking about, things from
the past. They were fighting over the rights of water and all
kinds of stuff have surfaced.

P1: We haven’t really seen anything that ties any of that to

what happened on the 4th. So what happened according to the
Military was that La Linea saw the caravan, the convoy of the 3
SUV's that had the LeBaron family. Mostly ladies, women, and
children and they for some reason engaged the vehicles and ended
up killing up 9 of them. Some of the kids survived they kind of
fled and everything. This is all on the Borderland Beat page,
you can read a lot about that. What’s interesting is that it was
the same day that the Agua Prieta incident happened and we are
right back to La Linea, they are claiming it was La Linea
involved. Initially, there is a guy by the name of El Jaguar
that belongs to a cell that is very close to Los Salazar. They
are affiliated to the Sinaloa Cartel but mostly work
independently. We've been talking to a lot of people that know a
lot about this subject. That’s developing, today the API landed
in Agua Prieta. They boarded a helicopter a federal police
helicopter to go to the crime scene. So they are going to be

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assisting with the operation apparently. We will keep everyone
informed as to how that is developing and that’s where that is.

P1: We have also had a lot of violence in Juarez, I have a lot

of friends and family there and they have been reporting a lot
of vehicles getting burned. Los Mexicles is a street gang that
is in prison but also in the streets of Juarez. They have been
associated with Sinaloa, responsible for a lot of that. Four of
them were arrested 2 days ago. I don't know if that’s related to
the LeBaron incident but it's interesting that that is La Linea
area. I wouldn't be surprised if somehow we find that that is
somehow related and linked to that. Anyways there is also
information on the Juarez incident in the Borderland Beat page.
Yesterday the Municipal Police went code RED, meaning they were
ordered not to go on the streets because of all the violence.
Another thing that happened is that there is a lot of rumors
floating around, I've been getting a lot of messages, we have,
that Sinaloa is going to try to enter Guanajuato looking for El
Marro, so that’s another thing that we have been monitoring real
close. We have a lot of information and also on the Borderland
Beat page, let’s keep in mind some of this information is fluid,
non-confirmed, nothing is confirmed over there. Many times we
have the Government which made a lot of comments over what
happened in Culiacan and we find out that a lot of that was not
even true. Many times even with the Military sometimes the
information is not even true. One of the things they said was
that they didn't plan the operation on Ovidio, the son of El
Chapo. That they just happened to come across him and later we
find out that it was a planned operation and there is a lot more
information about that. One of these days we will sit down and
we can bring up a lot of information about that. On one of the
other podcasts, we did go into a lot of detail so if you want to
find out more you can go to the Borderland Beat Vlog and you can
also go to the Borderland Beat Blog Page and you can probably
find all of that information.

P1: So we are back to tonight, we have a very special guest and

what’s going to happen tonight is that we are going to do this
show in Spanish. So what I'm going to try to do is translate
later. Maybe we can put out a transcript of the interview in
English so that a lot of people that don't speak Spanish can

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understand what happened. We will try to definitely translate it
for the people that don't speak Spanish.

P1: We have with us Guillermo Eduardo Ramirez Peyro, did I say

that correctly?

P2: That is correct.

P1: And they used to call you Lalo?

P1: Or they call you Lalo still?

P2: They call me Lalo

P1: The reason why we want to speak with you tonight is because
of everything that happened some time ago in Juarez and El Paso.
It has been some time since all of that passed and a lot of
times we forget what happened in the past but all of that is
very interesting and you were in the middle of what happened.

P1: I said we are going to talk about some of the things that he
was involved with back, I'd say since 2003 and on. There was a
lot of activity that was going on. I did make some notes, I'm
going to ask him some questions and like I said a lot of it is
going to be in Spanish. If there is anything of importance I
will try to translate it into English.

P1: What was happening...I'm going to ask you questions and that
way we will start from the beginning but the reason, what was
happening is that you were working for.. that you were a member
of the Juarez Cartel during that time.

P2: During what time period exactly? It's important to know

when.

P1: During any period of time.

P2: Yes.

P1: At one point in time you were a member of the Juarez Cartel?

P2: Yes, I infiltrated the Juarez Cartel.

P1: But you were also working with ICE right?

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P2: Initially I...

P1: You worked for them.

P2: You could say I Infiltrated the Cartel on ICE's request.

P1: Of ICE..okay.

P2: In fact ICE didn’t even exist. It was the investigation

office belonging to the Customs department.

P1: At that point in time they were still not called ICE.

P2: They still didn’t exist.

P1: They did have an investigation department but it wasn’t

called ICE.

P2: No.

P1: And with that department is...who you were..

P2: It was the investigations office of the Customs department.

P1: Okay, let’s talk a little about you. What do they call you,
do they call you Lalo?

P2: Yes.

P1: Okay, well thank you for that. I'm going to call you Lalo.
Let's talk a little bit about... Take us back a little. Where do
you originate from?

P2: From Mexico, I am Mexican.

P1: What part of Mexico?

P2: From Mexico City.

P1: From Mexico City? You lived in other places? You lived in
Juarez of course but in other places...

P2: Yes in Juarez, Durango, Guadalajara

P1: Okay, and someone..we had had information or I read

something that you were policemen in Guadalajara.

P2: Federal Highway Police/Patrol yes. Not in Guadalajara

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P1: It wasn't in Guadalajara.

P2: No it was in Mexico, well it was on a federal level, but

that branch no longer exists.

P1: Where were you stationed when you worked for the police?

P2: I was in Mexico City.

P1: How did you end up in Juarez?

P2: Well, it happened after I had left the police. Given the
prestige that that corporation/branch had, it was
very...unfortunately the way things work in Mexico is after
being a police officer what typically follows, is joining a
criminal organization.

Especially after being a Federal Highway Police/Patrol since

they were as I said, so prestigious and well trained. They
invited you to form part of these organizations and that is how
I arrived in Juarez City.

P1: Did you leave the police department of your own free will or
were you laid off?

P2: No, they laid me off.

P1: So you immediately began to work for the Juarez Cartel or

another organization?

P2: No, I was invited to Juarez around the time of Amado's

passing. We arrived in Juarez but we arrived during a very
problematic time. I arrived in Juarez when the whole conflict
for the territory started after Amado's death.

P1: Who was fighting for the territory?

P2: The Arellanos were trying to enter.

P2: Amongst themselves.

P2: So the person that invited me over there. The day I arrived
in Juarez City to see him. His death the day before I arrived to
meet him was published in the newspaper and in the middle of all

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of that conflict; there were a lot of people executed. People
who felt safe because they belonged to the Cartel. They were now
divided and you could say vulnerable. Everyone wanted to leave
and at that moment I had just arrived, I told them: "Well I
really have no place to go. I will stay here and try to be at
the front of whatever you guys need. If you guys give me the
opportunity and trust, well I'll take it." That is how I ended
up staying in Juarez for a while.

P1: Was Vicente Carrillo Fuentes the head of the Cartel at that
time?

P2: Yes, tentatively. It was still really premature. At that

time there were factions that were fighting for the title of
control.

P1: Alright, how did you become part of the Cartel?

P2: That was years later. I...

P1: When you were there before, what were you doing?

P2: When I was with those factions, there wasn’t really much
work and I got desperate and I dedicated myself to selling
vehicles. I started to travel in those vehicles called ONAPPAFO.
I'd buy an American vehicle, id turn it into an ONAPPAFA you’d
take it to the interior of the republic and I would sell it. So
I dedicated myself to that business more or less. I did better
in that business than in the disorder involving the Cartel.
However, my name was still remembered by some of the people and
after I was working with the Customs Service. A little while ago
I said the wrong name, I said Customs Department but its
Department of the Treasury. Someone sent me a message and they
invited me to join them once again. He remembered me and
everything he invited me to participate with them.

P1: Who is he?

P2: This person was Heriberto Santillana.

P1: Okay we will talk about him a little bit more shortly.

P1: So you started to collaborate with the Juarez Cartel was it

around the same that you started to collaborate with US Customs?

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P2: No it was later.

P1: I read something that stated that you went to the border to
make contact with Customs to...

P2: Yes, that is correct. I was struggling with the ONAPPAFO

business. I read about SEAT hiring people and due to my vocation
and experience, it seemed plausible to go speak with them to see
if they were interested to see if we could reach some agreement
but when I got there they referred me to someone, a special
agent of the Customs Services investigations office by the name
of Raul Bencomo. After talking with me he invited me to join
their team, he told me, he put the cards on the table. First, I
couldn’t have a criminal record nor pending cases with the law,
whether it is in Mexico or the USA. He told me that he was going
to request a series of authorizations that were a bit
complicated and took a while to obtain but that they finally
would arrive so that I would be authorized to collaborate with
them. So at first, we got one authorization and then another
until we got to an authorization that allowed me to be an
operative. Given the nature of the investigations, you can
imagine that this was not the job of an informant. This wasn’t
something like handing out a set of license plates or names or
phone numbers. It was a matter of entering; infiltrating and
they started to get to know me during this period...

P1: As an agent right?

P2: Yes.

P1: Because they use to call you agent 913

P2: 913 yes.

P2: Once they started to get to know me and see the veracity of
my cases and what was happening, they gave me the opportunity
and ask for permission from Washington which was authorized.
More or less that permit arrived around May of 2001.

P1: So what did you do? What type of work did you do for them?

P2: Well to start off, I had to find my own cases. They didn’t
refer any case to me in the beginning. Afterward, I'd find my
own cases and we'd do different operations.

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P1: Cases that you had, that you knew, that you were...

P2: Well truthfully I didn't really know. I simply went out

spreading the word of infiltrating. I spread the word on the
street that I was trying to commit criminal activities and then
we studied the veracity of the information that I obtained and
depending on the interest and seriousness of that information we
would follow-up and make a case. This is something that could be
called "controlled deliveries, identification."

P1: Did you record a lot of the...

P2: Yes we did record.

P1: How dangerous is that? Being in that situation inside of a

Cartel, as dangerous as the Juarez Cartel.

P2: It's not necessarily inside a Cartel, plainly put, it’s with
minor criminal organizations, well it’s dangerous. I can't
really tell you back then that I didn’t know but everyone died,
sooner or later. All of them would be killed.

P1: But they knew...

P2: They would all be killed. They didn't die. All of them would
be killed.

P1: So you did know that?

P2: Yes.

P1: That that could also happen to you.

P2: I was aware of that.

P1: So you just gave information.

P2: Sorry.

P1: Go Ahead.

P2: To add to your question because it is interesting.

P1: Go ahead.

P2: Once I was part of the Cartel, the amount of danger you are
in doubles because of the simple fact that you are a Cartel

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member, it makes you a target of rival Cartels and you already
have to deal with the dilemma that they will want to kill you or
kidnap you to torture you and extract information about...

P1: That’s what they do.

P2: The Cartel you belong to.

P1: That’s what the Cartels do a lot when they capture rivals.

P2: Yes they extract all of the information.

P1: They just don't kill them. Even nowadays that happens.

P1: Did you also work for other agencies like DEA or ATF when
you were working for the Customs department or did you just work
for them?

P2: Well, we worked with them but I received my orders from the
Customs Department and then ICE.

P1: Your handler was Bencomo?

P2: Yes, I always belonged to Customs and we did...

P1: Conferences?

P2: For example, we always worked with the Secret Service, with
ATF, with DEA, with the police from El Paso, TX and from Las
Cruces, NM just to mention a few.

P1: Okay. Let's talk a little about what was happening over
there in Juarez. When you formed part of the Cartel you were
working under the command of Heriberto Santillan...

P2: Tabares

P1: Heriberto Santillan Tabares

P2: That’s correct.

P1: He was your..?

P2: He was my boss.

P1: Your boss?

P1: How high up the totem pole was he?

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P2: In the beginning, he was in the nationwide group that
belongs to the Cartel and in the end, he was able to position
himself in the local group belonging to the Cartel in Juarez.

P1: Did he work closely with Vicente?

P2: Yes he had a direct line of contact with Vicente.

P1: Did he direct everything or were there more people?

P2: No, there were more people there. The Cartel is...

P1: Different...

P2: It is composed of cells.

P1: Different cells.

P2: Yes, we in Juarez city ended up forming the control group

but we still received our orders from the cupola.

P1: Were there any state police involved?

P2: There were a lot.

P1: A lot. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about it, let me
check the time. So let's talk a little about the fact that there
have been a lot of reports a lot that has been reported. I have
read a lot, I read a lot about everything and I started to read
a long time ago about what happened, in magazines and books and
all of that. One of the things that were spoken a lot about was
House of Death, can you tell me a little about what that was or
what that means.

P2: Well look, what I can tell you about what people have read
and what has been said unfortunately was a bit of manipulated
information in order to taint the investigation we did. House of
Death was a house one of many houses in Juarez city.

P1: Do you know if the house is still there or not?

P2: I imagine it is, as far as I know, the house is still there.

The difference is that there were bodies removed from that
house. I pointed out that house with the purpose of it drawing
more interest in the investigation because I told them that this
would be one house of the many that exist. I said that I was not

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going to talk more than I needed to nor am I going to complicate
things...

P1: It's like a stash house. Did someone live in that house?

P2: Yes, it wasn’t like a warehouse or safe house to keep people

in. It was a house exclusively used to take people to torture or
simply be killed without the need to be tortured.

P1: And who were these people? The people that they took there.

P2: Well it was whoever needed to be taken there.

P1: The people that they took there.

P2: It was people that... just whoever needed to be taken there.

P1: Rivals?

P2: Not necessarily. It was people that perhaps never processed

their permits to work in the city. Or it was the same people
that belong to the Cartel but made errors.

P1: Or people that were operating independently?

P2: Yes that’s what I'm telling you, people that didn't process
their permits to work in the region. People that belonged to the
Cartel or people that didn't even have anything to do with the
business but they were with someone that was going to be
detained and was taken along with the target.

P1: So of the things that I have read, they said that you were
the person in charge of that house.

P2: You could put it that way, of several, of many more.

P1: About how many executions took place there?

P2: I had knowledge of 13 executions there at that house.

P1: 13?

P2: At that house.

P1: And all of the victims were buried at that location?

P2: Precisely.

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P1: Okay.

P1: Can we speak about one of the victims?

P2: Yes.

P1: The first was a friend of Heriberto, what was his name?
Fernando?

P2: Fernando. Yes.

P1: What was his name? Fernando what? Do you recall?

P2: Truthfully, no. Fernando.. something.

P1: I had it...

P2: Reyes. Fernando Reyes.

P1: Yes, Fernando Reyes, correct. He was a lawyer, right?

P2: No.

P1: He wasn't a lawyer?

P2: No, his nickname was "El Licenciado."(the graduate)

P1: Oh.

P2: But he wasn't a lawyer.

P1: So what I read, I'm not sure if it's true but I'll tell you
what I heard and I hope you can talk to us a little about that.
What I heard was that he wanted to cross a shipment of marijuana
and he was looking for someone to help him.

P2: No, he already had the shipment of marijuana on the other

side of the border.

P1: Oh, he had already crossed it over?

P2: He wanted to take it to New York. That is what he needed, a

form of transportation to take it to New York.

P1: Oh okay.

P2: That is what he needed.

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P1: So what happened to him? Before you tell me that, was he
related to Heriberto?

P2: The day they presented him to me, he presented him as a

friend since kindergarten.

P1: Okay. What happened to him? Tell us more or less why was he
picked up? And what happened to him?

P2: In essence, he did not get picked up, he entered that house
on his own free will and Santillan gave the order to kill him in
that house.

P1: Who was there in the rooms, you were there and who else was
there?

P2: There were some agents from the State Police there.

P1: And Heriberto wasn't there?

P2: Well, he went inside the house with him but at the moment of
his murder he stepped out.

P1: Okay.

P2: He went to a store that was around the block.

P1: So the State Police already had orders to execute him.

P2: Exactly.

P1: Why did they want to execute him?

P2: To steal the merchandise that he had given to Heriberto for

him to transport.

P1: Okay. How did they kill him?

P2: Well at first they bent him, they tried to asphyxiate him
with that silver-colored tape.

P1: Duct Tape

P2: They couldn't. Yes. They couldn't. Then they tried to

strangle him with an electrical cord.

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P1: Wait, did they put the tape on his mouth so that...

P2: Around his entire head.

P1: His entire head? Okay.

P2: Then they tried to strangle him with an electrical cord

which ended up snapping and finally they placed a bag over his
head so that he would suffocate.

P1: Okay. Did you record all of this? Because someone told me
that you...

P2: Audio only.

P1: Only audio.

P2: Yes I made an audio recording.

P1: Weren't you scared recording in those types of situations?

P2: Of course anyone would be scared but it was my job.

P1: Okay.

P2: That was our bread and butter of every day. That's why I did
it. That's why I signaled that house as an example. Because I
didn’t see any interest or seriousness from the American
authorities. Obviously the Mexican authorities did show
seriousness because they were there to commit the homicides. The
American authorities were not showing the necessary interest or
seriousness and that’s why I brought it to them to like kind of
rub it in their face. As if to say: "Look, this is what I'm
living every day and you are just here playing or are
uninterested or placing any seriousness into what is happening
in my country."

P1: And you reported all of that happened...

P2: Immediately.

P1: To them. Including giving them the audio.

P2: Yes sir.

P1: Okay. So that is clear.

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P1: I have read a lot but some time ago. In the book that I
wrote, I wanted to put a little... but a lot of information
comes from the things that I have read. So I do not know if it's
true or not.

P2: I do know and it's not exactly how things are. They are
manipulated.

P1: Have you read the...

P2: Well I haven't had the opportunity to read your book because
they had just delivered it to me today.

P1: Okay

P2: The truth is that I didn't want to as to not influence what

we would discuss here.

P1: Yes of course. That is true.

P2: But everything that I have read and I have had multiple
conversations with reporters. I have told them: "You know what,
these things didn't happen like this. They happened like this."

P1: And they don't publish them.

P2: In fact, one of them didn't believe me but I gave them the
opportunity of speaking with Raul Bencoma. This person told
Bencoma: "Well you know how these people are, they always lie."
and Bencoma said: "You know what? Lalo isn't like that and he is
not lying. What you just told me is what really happened."

P2: In fact, this (female) reporter, she is a woman, felt bad

and then she started to help me when I was dealing with the
situation against the US government.

P1: When you were here in the United States.

P2 That is correct, I was fighting with the US government.

P1: Okay, very well. I'm looking at my notes, I don't want to

miss anything. So did you do an interview with Bill Conroy?

P2: Yes.

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P1: Okay. I read his reports and his book. Are many of the
things that he wrote factual?

P2: Well they gave him the twisted version of how things
happened.

P1: Did someone filter information to him?

P2: Yes, yes...

P1: Because he was saying that the government also tried to

threaten him indirectly.

P2: Yes

P1: When he reported that.. a lot about that.

P2: Yes, he published an article about that but the information

that he received is the information that the majority of the
people that have internet and in all of the media outlets which
was the information that someone from the government prepared in
order to contaminate the investigation that was made, to
discredit it and to try to close the matter per se. A great
doubt exists as to what the government really tried to do with
all of that tangling that there was with the DEA, especially
with Sandalio, with Raul Bencomo who was finally fired, not for
something that even had to do with me. They fired him because of
a situation having to do with another informant. They accused
him of not paying another person.

P1: They used that excuse.

P2: That excuse. Exactly. To discredit Bencomo as well.

P1: Does the name Luis Padilla ring a bell?

P2: Yes, yes I think he was a DEA informant that was

assassinated at the House of Death.

P1: The House of Death. Do you have information as to whether or

not he was picked up in El Paso?

P2: No, they picked him up in Juarez City along with Omar
Zepeda. Who in fact was the person that the Cartel was after. He
was working for the DEA and he was infiltrating Omar Zepeda to
take information for the DEA but he did not count on the fact

17
that Omar wasn't part of the Cartel. The Cartel found out and
when they picked him up he was with him and they took them. They
took 3 people then.

P1: How do the Cartels know all of that information when they
execute someone.

P2: Presently I do not know but at that time the Juarez Cartel
had the most complete interception system in Mexico, even better
than the government.

P1: In Juarez?

P2: In Juarez City, yes.

P1: Technology.

P2: Technology. There are houses that we used to call caves.

There are people in these houses that their only job is to
listen to calls from cell phones, public phones, hotel phones.
The State Police is going to the hotels to check license plates.
It's a very complete network of information. I think that at
that point in time it was the best thing available in Mexico.

P1: At that time?

P2: Yes.

P1: A lot of people say that that gentleman, Luis Padilla wasn't
involved in any aspect of organized crime.

P2: As far as I know, Luis Padilla was working for the DEA in
order to get some charges dropped.

P1: That is something that I also heard. But he didn't have...

P2: Which I should mention wasn't the case with me. Many have
said "oh yeah well you got arrested" I was arrested after 3
years of me working for Customs and I did that intentionally
because I was already fed up with their bullshit.

P1: When they got you with a marihuana charge?

P2: The government. Yes, I got a vehicle. I intentionally went

to the checkpoint. That vehicle was nothing but red flags.
Mexican license plate, it wasn't mine, I didn't have papers. I

18
was going to get busted. That was on a Saturday night. I arrived
in front of a judge Monday morning. I declared myself guilty, I
said this was the end of ICE of the Cartel I don't serve anyone.
I get to rest, it's over. I am fed up.

P1: You wanted to get out.

P2: Yes. On Tuesday morning at 6 AM, they tell me to grab my

things. I get out and 2 federal agents are waiting for me. They
put me in their vehicle handcuffed they get me out of there.
After exiting the facility they stop, they remove the handcuffs
and say: "Lalo forgive us, what happened? What's going on? Let's
go to El Paso." I got there and I told them, I said: "Look, I am
fed up that you guys aren't taking this seriously and that my
life is in danger and also the life of other people, my people.
And during all this time you guys keep burning me and keep
setting everything we do up for failure and putting me in the
worst situations possible. I told them I don't want to anymore.
So they told me to continue and that they would put in more
effort. Blah blah, they convinced me.

P1: For you to continue.

P2: After that was when I came back with the recording of
Fernando Reyes. That's why I told you that I did it and with
that house. So they could take the matter more seriously. So
that they could see what I had to live because they were always
with their group. They were always protected, armed, with their
tactics with all of their "top of the line" that they supposedly
have. I would cross the border alone and over there it was just
myself against anything that came my way. I got tired of that,
after 3 years I was hysterical and that is what I did. I said
well if they aren't going to take things seriously I am going to
make them.

P1: Was your entire family with you when you were living in
Juarez? You and your family or was your family not there?

P2: No.

P1: It's very dangerous right? Have your family...

P2: That is correct. They lived somewhere else.

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P1: I was going to ask you when you were arrested, they didn't
press any charges?

P2: Yes I went and pleaded guilty.

P1: So they charged you but...

P2: But they dropped them.

P1: They let you go. They didn't...

P2: Yes two federal agents went and took me out of jail and they
took me...

P1: They didn't process you.

P2: No they threw out the charges.

P1: It was a time when the DEA was very unhappy about having...

P2: That is another lie, the DEA kept participating in a lot of

the meetings that we had after that. They kept going, DEA Mexico
which was the ones in Juarez and DEA El Paso.

P1: They were present...

P2: Yes, they were present.

P1: During the briefing.

P2: During the...

P1: When they were giving out information.

P2: Exactly and when we were planning what was going to happen.

P1: Let's talk a little bit... I was trying to see, I mean we

can talk all night but we don't have all night.

P2: Well...

P1: I was going to ask you something. You said that the Juarez
DEA...

P2: Also the ones from El Paso.

P1: And also the ones from El Paso Texas. It's in the book. I
put a lot of relevant information about police forces. From

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Mexico and the United States. Those are what I take a lot of
interest in. So there was an incident and before speaking about
that. What can you tell me about Commander Loya? He was the...

P2: Well he was the commander of the night shift of the State
Police in Juarez City.

P1: Of Chihuahua

P2: He was in command in Juarez City

P1: And he worked with Heriberto.

P2: He was his nephew actually.

P1: He was...

P2: He was in some way related to him through marriage.

P1: But he helped him with the operations?

P2: Well yes, not only with Heriberto but he not only put him in
the position so that he could be under the command of the
Cartel. It is a very common situation that the Cartel ends up
placing. Key elements in the different corporation's whether it
is military or police so that they can keep an eye out for
Cartel interest.

P1: I read somewhere, I don't recall where and it's in the book.
Someone told me and I honestly don't remember. This was so long
ago that I don't remember the information. There was an incident
where one of the persons that had been executed gave information
of the address of one of the DEA agents.

P2: Well that was Luis Padilla.

P1: Luz Padilla?

P2: Luis Padilla. (clarifying)

P1: Luis Padilla. (reaffirming)

P2: And that was the error that the DEA always tried to cover up
because... I mean I can't believe it. The fact that you would
tell an informant where you live.

P1: But hey, did he tell them that they were DEA?

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P2: No, when he saw that they were being tortured. When they
took them to the House of Death with Omar Zepeda. He asked
Santillan to get closer to him. I wasn't present but the
following were words of Santilla and those were recorded. So
when he signals Santillan to get close, he gets close to him and
he tells him: "Hey, I know where there is a house where drugs
are stored. He gave them the address and the state police were
sent to investigate.

P1: The Police belonging to Loya?

P2: Yes, to investigate the house. They arrive there and to tell
you the truth there is a lot of versions of what happened but
the truth is that that house was Homer Glen I think was the
agent's name and his wife and kids are there. So when they see
the insistence of these people he tries to get them out and they
end up cutting him off. the State Police stop him.

P1: When they were leaving.

P2: Yes. They were in a bulletproof suburban and I think he just

barely put the window down. He told them that he was DEA and
then he asked his partner for backup.

P1: He had a certificate from the consulate?

P2: Something like that and the partner was the one that
identified himself as a member of the consulate when he arrived
there.

P1: Both of them had identification from the American Consulate.

P2: The reason I found out is because I was in charge of all

Cartel affairs in the United States. They asked me to
investigate the names and corporate ties that these people were
giving and to verify if it was real. They quickly realized what
was going on after I passed along the names. They asked me to
explain to them why we had those names. I explained the
situation to them and that is when they decided to evacuate
Juarez.

P1: Did the police realize that they were DEA at the time of the
detention?

P2: Well Homer Glen did identify himself as a DEA agent.

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P1: Because I received information that indicates that they
never identified themselves. That they worked for the DEA but
that they worked for the Embassy. That they were diplomats.

P2: No the one that said he was a diplomat was the other person
Rene something, I do not recall his last name.

P1: Yes the partner.

P2: But Homer Glen said he was DEA and that is why they passed
me the names so that I could verify.

P1: Just to clarfiy, the police didn't want to get invovled with
someone that is from the DEA right?

P2: Well truthfully it is not about them wanting to or not. It's

about what order is going to be given by the Cartel.

P1: From the very top? From Vicente?

P2: Exactly.

P1: So either I read it or someone told me, I don't recall but

they were supposedly going to take the agent and his family to
the house.

P2: Yes that was the idea.

P1: That was the idea?

P1: No one that is taken to that house comes back alive right?
Or have they ever taken someone to the House of Death to be
interrogated and they walk out alive?

P2: No, not that I recall. Once you are taken to that house, it
is with the purpose of ending your life. On one occasion they
asked me to bring in some people for interrogation and to not
even prepare anything because we were just going to interrogate
them but in the end, they killed them. So I cannot say that
anyone has walked out alive.

P1: So they would have executed the family of the DEA agent had
they taken them there..?

23
P1: What happened to Commander Loya? At one point in time, the
Federal Police arrived from Mexico to Juarez to investigate
everything going on.

P2: Well, the federales were always there.

P1: But they brought the special agency.

P2: Well yes, they set up their smokescreen. I never understood

why they didn't make any arrest first... If they wanted to do
things right. Why didn't they arrest people first and then go
recover the bodies? I mean it's not as if the dead were going to
run out of the house and try to escape when they saw that they
were arresting the people.

P1: Well could it have been perhaps because of the corruption?

P2: Well yes, but the problem there is that it not only
implicates the corruption of the Mexicans but also the Americans
because they were coordinating that operation. The US government
should have demanded the arrest and then later ask why we do we
have these bodies. They put on the whole act with the bodies so
that everyone would bail and have enough time to leave.

P1: But by the time the federal police arrived and had removed
the bodies they had already arrested Heriberto?

P2: Heriberto yes but not the people involved in Juarez.

P1: They never got them?

P2: Not that I know of, never.

P1: And you don't know what happened to Commander Loya?

P2: I would be lying, I can only speculate.

P1: Because they went to look for them but he disappeared.

P2: Everyone vanished once they saw that the bodies were found.

P1: Someone told me that they killed him. Have you heard that?

P2: I haven't heard any of that but I wouldn't doubt it because

something that was left really clear to me is that errors are
paid with your life and what happened there was their error.

24
P1: I've realized with Cartels and you probably know best how
many of them work. Like for example, I've had a lot of
information about past events where something happens in the
hierarchy of the Cartels at like Vicente's level or El Chapo.
And they realize that a Cartel is drawing a lot of attention to
itself and what they have done in the past like El Chapo has
done and we saw a lot of during his trial in New York. That a
lot of times they turn them in. Either they pick them up and
make them say what happened and admit they were involved or they
execute them. Or because of the police corruption and their
involvement, they just hand them over to the police. Did
something like that happen in Juarez in the end when everything
crumbled?

P2: Not really because they didn't turn anyone in. The only
person that was captured was Santillan and that was because of
the operation we did but from this side.

P1: But they also arrested Vicente in the end.

P2: Vicente... I saw the video, Vicente turned himself in. If

you look at the video. Vicente says he doesn't know the person
that is with him but he gives him orders and gives him
permission to talk. Vicente always said one thing. I'm going to
stop my operations, I'm going to wait for the legal protection
against extradition and then the whole show is over and that's
how I see it. That's why he hasn't been extradited.

P1: Did Vicente later start a war with El Chapo but it wasn't
like that when you were there?

P2: No, we were always twinned with the Sinaloa Cartel. I'll say
it again, Vicente stopped certain activities.

P1: El Chapo was Vicente's friend?

P2: We were there as a control cell and we gave all of our

support to the person, I, in fact, met a lot of people that Mr.
Zambada sent and we were there to give them all our support
unconditionally. We actually got along well.

P1: Vicente got along really well with Mr. Zambada?

25
P2: Yes, I honestly think that all of that having to do with El
Chapo and all of those situations. I feel that you know a show,
you know keep the common folk preoccupied with something
trivial. That was the circus given to the people so that the
rest could be at ease and make all of their arrangements like
Vicente with the extradition protection or Mr. Zambada who has
not been messed with. His son did get extradited but he is
young, perhaps a short sentence and things get fixed. I feel as
if it was never really a war. Juarez and Sinaloa have always
worked together hand in hand.

P1: At that time.

P2: That is correct.

P1: Well I'd like to thank you for being here and talking with
us.

P2: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak the truth.
That is important I will not get tired of saying it over and
over. What is on the internet is not only not factual but that
information has been manipulated in order to discredit the
investigation that we did which was an investigation that lasted
4 years and took lives, resources, and a lot of sacrifices.

P1: You gave a lot of information that helped against the war.

P2: Well basically I don't know where else they got information
to battle against the Juarez Cartel at that time. We were the
ones that practically debilitated them.

P1: I read or someone told me I really don't remember. Where

they arrested a US agent that was colloborating that was
corrupt. That you were part of...

P2: Not just one, there were several cases of corrupt agents.

P1: So a lot of people don't think that the corruption doesn't

happen or reach agents here in the US.

P2: I thnk that this investigation was interesting and has been
discredited mainly because of that. During this investigation we
found out and it was thorugh the grapevine, not something that
we made up. I was always recording and there were meeting and
during those meetings there were themes that were brought up in

26
which a lot of people spoke about the corruption in the DEA and
the corruption in Mexico all the way up to the presidential
level. That is what was really scary about this investigation.
That you could see that the corruption is rampart in both
countries.

P1: Of Course, well we are running out of time. So again I want

to thank.

P3: We're not going to talk about the spider? The Spiders?

P1: The spiders. I want to thank Lalo for joining us today and
giving us some very important information. I'm going to try to
translate some of that information and maybe put it in context
so that we know what he said. A lot of good points were made.
Some clarifications of some of the things that for me at
least...

P1: Hey how many people did you say they found... about 13
bodies?

P2: By my count yes, they killed 13 people there and they

removed 12 bodies but as far as I know there is another body
there.

P1: So there is another body there somewhere? Who would bury the
bodies? Did you bury them?

P2: No I had people for that.

P1: So you had people to help you?

P2: Yes I had people that dug the holes and moved the bodies and
all of that.

P1: So anyway, Mark did you have any questions? We are going to
wrap it up here brother.

P3: I just want to thank Lalo for coming on and joining us with
these fascinating topics. We appreciate it. Make sure if you
want to learn more about it go ahead and read the Borderland
Beat blog. It's updated several times a day with breaking news.
A lot of times news was breaking out about the Mormon family as
we were on the show last week so we couldn't get to it. Make

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sure you go to that blog and tune in and you're going to learn a
lot.

P1: We have 3 sources where you can find information. Number 1

is that blog. There are people mostly from Mexico that do a lot
of hard work gathering information, all aspects. If you want to
get extensive information on the Mexican drug cartels that is
where you want to go. The other one is the Borderland Beat
Facebook page, and most of the information there is raw. So I
get a lot of people that put comments saying: "That's bullshit
or nothing but lies" It's raw, we just get information and we
want to share it so many times we don't even know but the
BorderLand Beat blog kinda breaks it down more. The third is the
book and you know that a lot of the cartel information that
happened from 2008 through 2013 really gives a lot of detail,
understanding how it works, how it happens for people that want
to learn about the drug cartels. Even at the end of the book, it
has a lot of references a lot of information you can refer to so
you can understand what’s going on. I want to thank everyone for
watching.

P3: If you have information that you want to share with us make
sure you send us a message at borderlandbeat@gmail.com. That is
monitored constantly and doesn't just go into a junk mailbox, we
actually look at that stuff so if you have information send it
there. Or through messenger on Facebook, we always keep it
anonymous.

P1: Exactly, we get a lot of information and we thank everyone

that's providing the information that benefits everybody. So
thank you.

P3: Alright guys we will see you next time.

P1: Goodnight.

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