There is NO protein controversy the guys you see in the gyms who have big

by Jeff N muscles who are not

Webmaster note: This is a very informative genetically endowed use drugs, and growth

article about protein, originally posted to the stimulants one way or

bulletin board section of this site. another. They may be forcing anabolic growth
through the use if

There is just lots of misinformation around. steroids or other supplemental measures, that
while may allow for

However, remember any diet can be a bad diet rapid muscle growth and size, can be very very

even a raw food or vegan diet if it is not planned harmful. And while

properly. Many raw fooders do not get in enough many of them will tell you that they do not take

protein and this is bacuse they do not get in steroids or

enough calories or they eat only or too much fruit growth hormones, most all do and may not even

and not enough veggies. To survive on a raw know it. Why? Cause

food diet, you have to eat lots of food. Most raw they eat lots of red meat and dairy and other

fooders do not follow a healthy diet and that is animal products,

why they are so thin and emaciated and weak. which are loaded with growth stimulants and
hormones, which are

Here are some clips and points from earlier still in the meat. Europe wont import American

posts of mine. beef because of

the level of hormones in it.

Here are some clips from some discussions I

have had on the The actual amount of true real muscle then

protein issue. I think you will find all the info you someone can put on

need in naturally, is about 1# per month. And that takes

this. allot of work.

Some of the increased size people see is do to
fluid changes and

The odds of you putting on any significant not muscle growth.

amount of muscle has

its limits on a truly healthy diet unless you want One of the reasons that many athletes and

to do some bodybuilders need more

unhealthy things. The major limiting factor will be protein is simple. Then don't eat enough carbs or

your enough

genetics, and if you don't have the genes for that calories. So, during their training, they run out or

kind of build, low on

all the work in the gym will not put muscle on you. carbs, so in order to conserve the carbs (the

Also, most of bodies primary

energy source) the body will start burning more gms/kg saying that
protein for they don't need anymore then the regular person
energy. Studies have shown this and the because this
increased protein intake already is almost double true protein needs, to
is mostly used for energy and not muscle growth 1.0 gms/kg to the
and repair. highest I have seen proposed is 1.5 grms /kg
However, if the same athletes would just which is about twice
increase his carb the amount of protein then normal.
intake, through eating more healthy carbs, he
would increase the So, lets run the numbers on me, I am 5'6" and
amount of stored carbs (glycogen) and be better weight a very
prepared to work healthy 125. My BMI is 20, which is the
out and conserve or reduce the amount of healthiest level. 126 lbs
needed protein. And as is about 55 kgs. 55 x .8 (low estimate) is 44
all carbs contain protein also, he would still be grams. 55 x 1.5
getting plenty (high estimate) is 82. The other day I posted my
of protein diet and it had
in it 70 grams of protein. This was eating only
Having said all that, let look at the actual fruits and
numbers. veggies, with a small amount of nuts and some
rice. IF I made a
The amount of protein someone's needs based slight adjustment to the diet, like more nuts, I
on US RDAS is would have
.8-gms/kg bodyweight. And if someone is easily surpasses the 82 grams of protein. In fact,
overweight, this is based I just made
on ideal body weight and not actual weight as the changes and increased the nuts (3 oz at
excess weight is lunch and dinner
fat and doesn't need to be fed protein. Also instead of 1.5) and ran the numbers, at 2500
realize that the .8 calories my diet now
gms /kg is an overestimate with a safety factor has 83 grams of protein in it.
figured in. The
actual amount needed to maintain nitrogen So, even if the protein estimate is correct and
balance, is only .3-.4 not over
gms/kg body weight. inflated, one could easily do it. But remember,
the numbers are
Many studies have done and much is written inflated so we really don't need that much
about how much anyway. There is more
bodybuilders need. The estimates run from .8 disease and death in the world due to excess
protein then there
is due to lack of protein (which hardly exists - The way the amino acids are linked in a protein
anywhere except -fiber
some areas where they not only don't get -polyphenolic compounds
enough protein, they don -heat
't get enough calories, which is the main issue). -oxidation
These problems -Addition of acids (vinegar)
include increased rates of many cancer,
osteoporosis, kidney Unprocessed wheat and rice are better digested
stones, gout, hypertension, & stroke, and heart then ready to eat
disease. wheat or rice cereals. Vegetarian diets that are
high in fiber
Most vegetables are excellent sources of protein, can decrease protein digestibility.
especially the
green leafy ones, and the problem is most Digestibility of Different Diets and Different
people don't eat enough Foods
greens. (Sarwar G, Digestibility of protein and
1200 calories of raw broccoli supply a whopping bioavailability of amino
131 grams of acids in foods. Wld Rev Nutr Diet. 1987;
protein. 1200 calories of romaine lettuce supply 54:26-70
about 136 grams.
Now granted, that's alot of greens, but it makes Diet Digestibility
a very important (%)
point. Oranges supply about 24 grams per 1200 North American typical mixed 94%
calories. SO you NA Lacto Veg 88
can see that vegetables are very high in protein. NA Lacto ovo veg 93
SO if you want Brazil (rice, beans, meat, eggs, veg) 78
more protein in your diet, eat a little less fruit and Guatemala (beans corn rice wheat
eat lots cheese, eggs, veg) 77
more greens. You will still need fruit in order to India (rice, dal, milk, veg) 75
supply the
energy for your workouts, but eat lots of greens. Food
Oats, Ready to eat 72
ALSO>>> Dried Beans 75
Rice, ready to eat 75
"Differences in digestibility may be due to many Wheat, Ready To eat 77
factors that can Soybeans 78
adversely effect protein digestion including Soy Flour 86
Whole Wheat 87 was used in
Rice polished 89 determining the RDA and for food label
WW Bread 92 information. The PER was
Meat, Poultry, Fish 95 based on experiments done on rats who grow at
eggs milk 95 a much faster rate
then humans and therefore have a much higher
protein need. They
Therefore, assuming 95% of the protein a mixed also have different requirements for amino acids,
omnivore diet is some as much as
digestible compared with 85% of the protein in a 50% higher.
vegetarian diet,
vegetarians, especially vegans may need to In recognition of this inadequacy of the PER, the
consume about 10-15% FAO/WHO and the
more protein then omnivores. This would equal FDA have adopted a new scale called the
out to .9 gms per Protein digestibility
kg body weight as opposed to the RDA of .8 gms CORRECTED amino acid score (PDCAAS).
per kg body While not perfect, it is
weight. Also remember, these numbers have much better and more accurate in relation to the
built in buffers of true needs of
about 25-50% as they are set for populations humans and the scoring of food. This scale was
and not individuals not around in the
1970s or the 1980s
If you remember in my post, I showed that a
vegan diet could meet PDCAAS for selected plant and animal foods
the needs even if they were set as high as 1.5 (Sarwar, G Evaluation of the PDCAAS method
gms per kg for assessing protein
bodyweight. This is still way over what they are quality of foods. Journal of association of official
saying a vegan analytical
needs to consume to compensate. So I chemistry, 1990; 73: 347-356)
accounted for all this and
even more of a leeway, and showed that it was Food PDCAAS
still adequate, casein 1.0
Egg White 1.0
Also, I said that the methods for evaluating Beef 1.0
protein quality had Soy protein .99
been recently revised. The protein efficiency Pea flour .69
ratio (PER) was kidney bean .68
the official standard for evaluating protein and pinto bean .57
rolled oats .57 potatoes)
whole wheat .40 subjects were able to maintain nitrogen balance.
lentils .51
Now, these are extreme examples and I don't
Also, recommend them. As I
said in my post on the RDAs, sometimes there
The ability of plant proteins to meet protein can be sub clinical
needs when the only deficiencies that take years to manifest. SO
source or protein in a diet has been clearly while they may have
shown also. At survived and maintained positive nitrogen
Michigan state university, students aged 19 to 27 balance, we don't know
were fed diets if the amino acids profile and the protein level
for 50 days that 70 grams of protein a day, 90% would have been
of which came enough for them to THRIVE on.
from wheat and the rest from fruit and
vegetables. All subjects From a percent protein from calories, all these
remained in nitrogen balance (the true test of numbers, taking
protein adequacy into consideration all the above issues, a diet
of a diet). One note, the first 2 weeks, the that is 10%
students were in protein would meet all these needs. However,
negative nitrogen balance as they adapted to the realize for this to
diet, and then work, you MUST take in enough calories .
went in to positive nitrogen balance. Many
studies that show Also studies have shown that taking in excess
plant food diets don't maintain nitrogen balance calories actually
aren't followed improves protein digestibility. Taking in an
long enough to allow for this adoption to take excess of 700 to
place. 1000 calories reduces the amount of protein
needed to maintain
Several other studies have also shown that nitrogen balance by 30 and 50% respectively.
wheat protein can meet
protein needs. And Other studies have shown Well, that's fine for normal people but what about
that when rice makes athletes?
up as much as 75% of the protein in a diet,
nitrogen balance is As I said earlier, it is conceivable that athletes
maintained. Also studies have shown that then may need more
when single plant protein to maintain nitrogen balance. The RDA
foods were used as the source of protein (corn, does not have a
separate recommendation for protein for hard
work or training
cause they believe that with the built in margin of
safety
already included, this would be covered.
However, there is recent research that says that
athletes may
need up to 1.5 gms per kg (which I did quote in
my first post).
The theory is that they need more protein due to
the breakdown of
amino acids that need to be replaced.
However (as I also mentioned) the actual need
for lean tissue
deposition is very small. If someone was to put
on 1 lb a month
of muscle (which is not easy and hard to do,
month after month)
one pound of muscle is 454 grams, 75% of
which is water weight
(muscle tissue is 75% water). So that means the
other 25% or 113
grams per month, is protein, or less then 4
grams per day,
assuming 100% efficiency and utilization.
Assuming 85%
efficiency, from plant protein, that would be
about 4.7 grams.
28 grams are 1 ounce, so this is like less then
1/8 of an ounce
a day of extra protein needed. This is a very very
small amount.
Realize also that this is highly controversial.
Many scientists
believe no extra protein is needed by athletes.
Yet, I in my
earlier post, used the highest estimates given,
and still showed
that a vegan diet can meet all the protein and
amino acid
requirements, taking into account all factors of
digestibility
and efficiency.
Also realize, that athletes who don't eat enough
carbohydrates
(probably cause they are eating too much
protein) have
insufficient glycogen stores (stored
carbohydrates). Athletes
with low glycogen stores, metabolize 2x the
amount of protein as
athletes who are carb loaded. Why? Not die to
muscle buildup,
but due to the fact that the "extra" protein will be
used for
gluconeogenesis, which is the making of
glucose (for energy) from
protein. So they excess protein is needed for
energy and not
muscle, due to a lack of carb intake.
Also remember, excess protein
-Increases calcium excretion (can increase risk
for osteoporosis)
- Increase risk for kidney stones