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Leica M9 / M-E + M9 - coincidence at in>nity

M9 - coincidence at in>nity
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By pack_tor, April 12, 2010 in Leica M9 / M-E

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pack_tor Posted April 12, 2010 Report post  #1

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'' Hi Guys,
 P I tried to focus on a cellphone tower (a few kilometers
away) on my M9/50 Lux ASPH to test for range>nder
misalignment. At in>nity on the Lens, the double
Members images are ever so slightly off. I have to work hard to
28 posts see the fact - for all purposes the tower seems like a
slightly fuzzy line in the focus area. At closer
distances the images coincide just >ne.

My question is, how much should I be worried about

this? I'm a range>nder newbie, so I'm not sure how
much it would affect shots that are taken at about 6-
25 feet away. I usually work in this range, mostly wide
open at 1.4. I'm wondering this because lately the 50
Lux shots don't seem to be bitingly sharp as I'd hope
@ 1.4 and I'm wondering if the range>nder might be
off.

Thanks!

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Julian Thompson Posted April 12, 2010 (edited) Report post  #2

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It is really important. If the in>nity is off then you can't
truly evaluate focus elsewhere because the in>nity is
the 'reference' point. From this point the length of the
roller cam arm itself determines how much the
 range>nder patch moves as the lens rotates.

J In my experience of 5 digital M's (2 x M8.2 and 2 x M8

and 1 x M9) I have never had a camera with a spot on
Members
600 posts in>nity/roller arm length combination from the factory,
and have learned how to adjust them myself rather
than send them back.

If you don't want to touch it yourself then you'll have to

bite the bullet and send it back to Leica for
adjustment. Sorry its not better news!

Edited April 12, 2010 by Julian Thompson

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Jamie Roberts Posted April 12, 2010 Report post  #3

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- pack_tor said:

J
Hi Guys,

I tried to focus on a cellphone tower (a few

Members
5,177 posts kilometers away) on my M9/50 Lux ASPH to test
Read more !
City: Cambridge

So the 50 Lux ASPH is pretty darned bitingly sharp--

even at 1.4--when focused correctly on the M9, though
the DOF can be very slight!

Do some tests--shoot a ruler for example--and see if

the lens is front or backfocusing. If it is, given what
you've said, yes, I'd suspect the in>nity focus is off.
Get it >xed, or as Julian suggests, learn to >x it
yourself. There's a wiki entry on how to do it here at
the LUF.

As a guide--here are some quick snaps I >red off with

the 50 1.4 Lux APSH at 1.4...(sorry for the dog pic, but
she's the only one to hand right now!)

I have to say that the 50 1.4Lux APSH is the sharpest

50 lens I've ever seen wide open:

Two shots, resized for web:

Now 100% crops, no sharpening (straight from C1 to
PS for cropping). Focused on wings / head :
focused, more or less, on eyes (they're kinda covered
by fur )
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James H (Jamie) Roberts .!

Site: James Roberts photography

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pack_tor Posted April 12, 2010 Report post  #4

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'' Hi Guys,

P Thanks for the replies. I did a few tests - The

sharpness at close distances (to about 10 ft) seems
to be >ne. However focusing beyond 10 ft seems hit
Members and miss. More often than not the images are back
28 posts
focused.

Would this con>rm that the range>nder needs to be

realigned?

Thanks!

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 digitalfx
Posted April 12, 2010 Report post  #5
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The easiest way to con>rm in>nity focus is to look at

the moon. It's bright enough and far enough to
instantly judge if your range>nder is off

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ArtZ Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #6

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- pack_tor said:
Hi Guys,

I tried to focus on a cellphone tower (a few

Members
1,215 posts kilometers away) on my M9/50 Lux ASPH to test
Read more !
City: Paris

Remember inKnity is different for every focal lengh.

As the rule of thumb you can add a zero to your focal

distance in mm and read it as meters.

For a 28mm lens, in>nity is a 280 meters

For a 35mm lens, in>nity is a 350 meters

 For a 50mm lens, in>nity is a 500 meters

For a 90mm lens, in>nity is a 900 meters

...

Test with differents lenses before you send the

camera. It could be also just the lens or both.

Cheers.

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Non gogoa, han zangoa. .!

cbretteville Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #7

Sponsoring Member
This can also be the fault of the focusing cam it self.
I've had this issue with two lenses lenses that showed
this symptom when they came back from coding by
CS in Solms (one of the lenses had to go back twice
). In all the cases the lens was focusing properly at

Premium Member in>nity, but the RF patch was off by a fraction. Not a
3,445 posts problem with the RF it self as with all my other lenses
City: Oslo, Norway this wasn't a problem. Solms >xed it for both of them,
>nally, but the wait was a real PITA, especially for the
50 'Cron that had to go back twice.

Carl
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Julian Thompson Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #8

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Have a look at this graph - it may help you to visualise

J
it.

The dotted line is the actual lens focus as you rotate

Members the barrel. It should be straight but I did it without a
600 posts ruler!

I have then drawn a red line on to show what is

happening in your case. The in>nity point is wrong and
therefore at bigger distances you are getting bad
focus but then as you get closer the fact that your
cam arm is too short allows the range>nder window to
'catch up' with the real focus and give the mistaken
impression that all is well.

If you did really drill down on this and do some more

careful testing you would see that it is misbehaving in
a predictable way.
 I will take you through those steps in the next posts...

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Julian Thompson Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #9

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So if you then take your allen key and turn the hex bolt

J
anticlockwise you will get this:

Now your in>nity will be perfect but you'll now have

Members the close focus off because the 'slope' of the graph
600 posts has not altered because you have not changed the
actual gearing of the mechanism yet...
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Julian Thompson Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #10

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...And now loosen the slot head screw on the main

J
arm cam and turn the cam fractionally anticlockwise
to shorten the arm down and increase the amount of
available focus throw in the range>nder window.

Members
600 posts Now you will get this:

(Actually you won't - quite - the in>nity will have gone

out again a touch since the start point of the roller at
in>nity is changed because you have shortened the
arm a touch - so you will need to wind the in>nity back
a fraction)
 Hopefully this gives a good idea of the procedure in a
visual format - if you have front focus you obviously
reverse the direction of the adjustments!

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bybrett Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #11

Camera Operator
Hi Julian I'm loving it! Can you do one for depth of >eld
too?

1
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interview
Jamie Roberts Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #12
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Thanks Julian!

J I've adjusted the in>nity focus and it seems that's all it

took for my M9 to be in focus across the range.
Members
5,177 posts
City: Cambridge
Are you saying you always have to loosen the arm as
well? (and truthfully, where do you do that, exactly?)

1
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James H (Jamie) Roberts .!

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adli Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #13

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The problem is when you start adjusting your camera
and it turns out it was not the camera but the lens
which was the problem. All your other lenses will then
be out of focus.....

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5
Location: Oslo
City: Oslo dunkelblau, Graham (G4FUJ), Bo_Lorentzen and
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 Arne Adli
www.arneadli.com .!

All you will ever need is a 35 and a 90

Jamie Roberts Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #14

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- adli said:

J
The problem is when you start adjusting your
camera and it turns out it was not the camera but
the lens which was the problem. All your other
lenses will then be out of focus.....
Members
5,177 posts
Read more !
City: Cambridge

Yes, that can be true, but I've had my lenses on the M8

and M6 and they're all pretty good (they've all been
checked by Leica or Kindermann Canada, in other
words). So when my 35, 50 and 75 lux are all front
focused, and only on the M9, and I can't consistently
achieve in>nity, I know it's not the lenses.

1
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Julian Thompson
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Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #15 /
Brett - - you have to place that manually and stop

J up and down in your testing but knowing how good

your eye is you'd have no trouble making sure you
were setting it in the right place. Then again I should
imagine you have your own personal team of gnomes
Members
from Solms following you around with a shiny Leica
600 posts
support van, re-setting your bodies like a tennis pro
has rackets tensioned ? No?

I know this is not for everyone and that's not what I'm
saying - my aim in posting is to share the work I have
done and the successes I have had with my own
adjustments.

It is very nice to know how to tweak one's own camera

very quickly if necessary. It is nice to remove the 'aura'
from the range>nder mechanism in one's own mind
and kind of feel at one with it. That's all.

So

Jamie - this is the explanation I posted a little while

back along with a couple of pics for you to look at. As
adil says you need to take a sample of shots from
every lens (and body if possible) you have to make
sure you're calibrating it right.

You will need a 2.5mm allen key and a small

screwdriver which you should grind a very slight angle
on so that as you >t the screwdriver into the head on
the focus throw pivot (A) on the diagram it allows a
nice lat drive.

A) is the focus throw adjustment. If you look at the pic

you can see that the screw retains an eccentric cam. If
you loosen the screw you can rotate the cam (as
denoted by the pink and blue arrows) freely. As you do
so, the length of the arm itself changes.

By moving the cam counter-clockwise (as in pink

arrow) you INCREASE the total available focus throw.

By moving the cam clockwise (as in blue arrow) you

DECREASE the total available focus throw.

is the in>nity adjustment as we know.

If you rotate the 2.5mm hex key counter clockwise (as

in green arrow) you move the point at which the
range>nder 'sees' in>nity further away - and this
'references everything forward of that.

If you rotate the 2.5mm hex key clockwise (as in

yellow arrow) you move the point at which the
range>nder 'sees' in>nity closer to you - and this
'references everything forward of that.

Right - so they are the two adjustments you have

available to you. From my playing about the best way
to set it up is this.

1) In>nity is very important. Step 1 is to look at

something with lots of contrast a long way off (a star
does seem to work very well but today I've been using
a clock tower in the far distance and that's >ne too)
and then adjust the roller ( so that this perfectly
coincides. Don't accept the nonesense I was spouting
before about it not mattering. It really matters that you
can 100% converge the object at in>nity.

2) Now, take a photo at a big aperture of something

close to you - like 0.8 meters or similar. I found text to
be excellent. Note whether you now have front focus
or back focus. If you have front focus (like I did - big
time!) then your focus throw is too short; ie your arm
is too long, so when the lens rotates you're not
pushing the range>nder enough. So you need to
shorten the arm by loosening (A) and twisting the cam
slightly anti-clockwise. (If you have backfocus then it's
obviously the inverse and you need to go clockwise to
lengthen the arm and reduce your focus throw).

3) Now, recheck in>nity. It will now be wrong, because

you have now moved the arm and so the roller wheel
has also moved. But this is not a problem - just
recorrect in>nity as in 1) above to compensate for the
altered focus throw.

4) Repeat step 2. You will see that the focus point has
altered. Whether it has moved too little or too much
will calibrate your hand/eye as to how much you need
to make the adjustments but in general I made
positive, but not excessive tweaks each time.

5) When you are happy with the in>nity and close

settings you want to shoot some images off that are
at various distances just to make sure that everything
is right. On my setup which consists of all current
model lenses (not sure if this is relevent) I did not have
to compensate with any kind of compromise here.
When my in>nity setting is right and the focus throw is
perfect the transgression from near to far is linear and
my lenses are sharp right the way through the range. I
suppose that if this were not the case or if your lenses
varied then you'd need to get them recalibrated, or
maybe accept a compromise setting.
 Hope that's helpful.

Have fun

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Jamie Roberts Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #16

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 Julian--

J That's totally brilliant! I don't know how I missed this

before. If you're ever near Toronto, the beer's on me
Members
5,177 posts
City: Cambridge

Thanks again!

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James H (Jamie) Roberts .!

Site: James Roberts photography

Blog: James Roberts wedding photography blog

Julian Thompson Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #17

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No worries! Have fun and make small changes. You'll

J
soon get a 'feel' for it !

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Members
600 posts

Baptiste Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #18

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It will be short, and I have not read all what has been
written earlier...: I can report that my con>d as well
 shows a slight decrease of sharpening at in>nity with
the Lux 50. To my eyes, it is not very obvious, but while
wide open, and focused at a decent distance, the
focused details seem de>nitely razor sharp, the pics
taken with a closed diaph, focused at in>nity could, to
Members
my eyes, be even more sharp.
105 posts
City: Paris

My question is: is it not simply that the Lux 50 is

optimized in a short range, wide open use, while some
other 50mm are more optimized for other uses?

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M9-P, M9, Noct 0.95, Lux 24 ASPH, Heliar 12 .!

website (French): http://delphine-et-baptiste.fr

Jamie Roberts Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #19

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- Baptiste said:

J
{snipped}

My question is: is it not simply that the Lux 50 is

optimized in a short range, wide open use, while
Members some other 50mm are more optimized for other
5,177 posts
Read more !
City: Cambridge

I don't think so, no, but only Leica knows for sure
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James H (Jamie) Roberts .!

Site: James Roberts photography

Blog: James Roberts wedding photography blog

pack_tor Posted April 13, 2010 Report post  #20

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'' Wow, this is a thread to bookmark! Thanks a lot guys -
I'm sure I'll try this on my own once the M9 is off

P
warranty, but I'm feeling a bit uneasy to try right now.
Thanks for all the sketches - the procedure is very
clear.

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