Jonathan Umble

Intro to Disciplemaking
Interview

For this interview, I chose Isaac Quezada, a man I got to know while living in Mexico.
He was also an MK in Mexico, and now he does a variety of work there, including being in
charge of the youth group. I went on many hikes and camping trips with him and a few other
guys, and we always would have deep theological conversations that benefitted me greatly.
Isaac’s love for God is evident, and he is definitely someone who has influenced me in a positive
way. (My questions are in bold; his answers are in the bullet points).

How and when did you become a Christian?

 I grew up in a Christian home and became a Christian at a very young age. My dad
baptized me when I was 7. When I was a kid, I would sometimes be aware that God was
around, but it was a little strange and uncomfortable for me since, at that point, I didn’t
really know him personally. At age 13, during a time at a youth camp, I felt the same
presence of God but in a whole new way. For the first time I could feel his nearness and it
was personal, and it was so good. Starting then I began to talk to God and relate to him in
a way that was genuine and personal. I consider that one of the most important times in
my spiritual journey with God.

What are some of the biggest battles you have faced? How did you handle them? Is there a
battle where you believe you should have handled it differently?
 Pride is one of the biggest. I often struggled with pride consciously during high school,
and even in the first year of college. Since then it has remained somewhat beneath the
surface, making it harder to identify and fight.
 Identity: where am I from? That’s difficult question to answer for any missionary kid. In
my case it’s been something that I haven’t been able to escape from for more than about a
day at a time. For years I experienced quite a bit of angst over where I was from and who
I was; I needed clear answers to those questions and I didn’t have very good ones. One
evening of freshman year of college, I read the book of Deuteronomy in one sitting (yes,
it was for homework). I loved it. I even cried when Moses died. It instantly became my
favorite book of the Bible for several years. I saw so much of myself in the Exodus story,
especially in the life of Moses. He was born a Hebrew slave, raised as Egyptian royalty,
spent 40 years as a nobody in Midian, and then God brought him full circle by weaving
all those previous identities into something intricate and beautiful that only he could have
orchestrated. Trusting Christ to sort out my identity in him has been one of the single
 most healing things in my spiritual life. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me.
So now I don’t need to put too much stock in my background, ethnic origins, or where I
was born or grew up. My citizenship is in heaven.

How do you maintain your devotional life? What spiritual disciplines or convictions have
matured you into who you are today?
 I’m so grateful for my parents’ insistence on having family devotions almost every
morning. Hearing and memorizing scripture on a regular basis laid a great foundation in
me, even before I really understood some of the things we were memorizing. Later on,
when I was 14, I took it upon myself to read about three chapters New Testament every
night. The constant exposure to the words and truth of scripture was and is a great source
of strength. When I was about to leave for college, Mum told me, “Hold on to the Bible,
even if people you trust try to undermine it.” Her advice has proved to be among the best
I’ve ever gotten. I believe that whatever I have gained in wisdom or understanding, it is
all due to pondering the words of scripture, testing the efficacy of scripture in difficult
situations I find myself in, and hearing from others who have themselves gleaned from
the Bible.
 Something I’ve done for many years now is to worship the Lord through music, and
leading others in worship as well. Though not everyone feels as I do, I know that music
has been a powerful tool in God’s hand to bring me nearer to him.
 Hiking and camping in nature. I cannot overstate the importance of providing my soul
and prayers with room to breathe. I know that my faith, my prayers, my imagination, and
my spirit all suffer when I don’t take time to spend outdoors. Alone is best, but in small
groups can also be very beneficial.
 Fellowship. In my case, my wife has been a huge source of strength and help to me as we
pursue God together. But I also believe I need Christian brothers around me to sharpen
me, and this is perhaps the spiritual area in which I have most suffered during the last 5
years. Bonhoeffer said, “Christ in my brother is stronger than Christ in me,” meaning that
we need to preach the gospel to our brothers, and we need our brothers to preach the
gospel to us.

What are some of the most important lessons you have learned? Can you give me examples
where you put the lessons into practice?
 As I mentioned before, the scripture has always been a pillar of my faith. However, in the
words of N.T. Wright, “Don’t make the Bible into something it’s not.” For example, we
seek to exegete scripture in its context rather than look for proof texts. We should use
good hermeneutics to determine whether a given passage is primarily devotional,
primarily narrative, prophetic, or some combination thereof or simply another genre. We
 should NOT take a Proverb like “bring up a child in the way he should go, and in the end
he will not depart from it” and treat it like a divine promise or guarantee. As it is a
proverb, that would be to mishandle scripture. Many conservative Christians have what is
called a “house of cards faith.” This is the result of insisting fanatically upon the doctrine
of inerrancy of the Bible. The overzealous application of this doctrine takes every clause
of the Bible—either Genesis 1 or Romans 8—and exalts it to have the same level of
accuracy and authority. Additionally, we demand that every one of those clauses pass the
quality control test simultaneously. For even one name or date to be revealed as
inaccurate would instantly disqualify the authority, veracity, and credibility of all the
others. By doing this we create the looming possibility and likelihood that our faith could
come crashing down at any minute. Comparing it again to a house of cards, flicking out
even one card out would compromise the entire structure and cause it to topple. If it
sounds like I want all of us to admit that the Bible has been lying to us all this time, I
don’t. I for one do submit myself to the authority of scripture, and I strive to live as it
instructs me to, as the Holy Spirit reveals its truth to me. I know what I’ve said is
controversial, so I want to include this verse: “But I [Jesus] have a testimony weightier
than that of John...” (John 5:36) Clearly John the Evangelist considered certain parts of
scripture more “weighty” than others.
 Don’t try to make disciples in your own image. I have done this in the past and have
invariably been disappointed with the results. Thinking that my way is the best way of
thinking, praying, reading, and relating to people, I have often been upset with the fact
that someone I was trying to “disciple” didn’t fit that model. As I became aware of this
and adjusted my method, I realized that it worked so much better and was far more
beneficial to all parties involved when I sought to discover my pupil’s God-given gifts
and strengths and then encouraged him to exercise them.

What has God been saying to you over the past month?
 “Have mercy; Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy” (Matthew 5:7).
There is a well-known and well used analogy that youth pastors often preach to try and
encourage young people to maintain their sexual purity. It goes like this, “Do you want a
piece of gum? Yes? OK, but just a second… he puts the gum in his own mouth and
chews it, then takes it back out… here you go. What, now you don’t want it? But it’s
good, it’s still got flavor, it’ll still freshen up your breath. What’s the big deal? … So you
see, youth, don’t give away your virginity to anyone who isn’t your spouse. Don’t give
up your purity. After all, who would want to chew someone else’s second-hand gum?”
Though this is intended to be a rhetorical question, it shouldn’t be. Though those who use
this analogy are trying to encourage youth to remain sexually pure, the problem and irony
is that only a tiny percentage of teenagers today remain virgins till marriage. The
message the already-impure take aware from this analogy is, “Nobody will marry you
now because you’re somebody’s second-hand, already-chewed gum.” The intended
rhetorical question has an answer in the gospel. Who would want the already-chewed
 gum? Who would want me, now that I’m corrupt, broken, and sinful? Jesus would. Jesus
does. In fact, prior to being reborn as Christians, all of us are the already-chewed gum,
regardless of our sexual past. The thrust of Romans 3:23—a sentence fragment and
wildly out-of-context theme song of many evangelical VBS’s—is not that we are sinners.
Rather it is that we are ALL sinners and that the field of grace is leveled at the foot of the
cross. None of us can bring anything worth bartering with before the Lord, not goody-
two-shoes, not sexual deviants, not thieves on crosses. The Lord has been asking and
directing me to show mercy to those who are broken and who consider themselves
beyond God’s grace.
 “Rescue those who are being taken away to death; hold back those who are stumbling to
the slaughter.” (Prov. 24:11) This verse speaks powerfully to me, both inspiring and
convicting me. On one hand, there are those who are definitely “stumbling to the
slaughter” and know it and are not interested in turning their life around. Ought I to try
and save them? What if I already have? How many times should I try to re-open that can
of worms? By doing so am I wasting time that I should be using to minister to receptive
young men? On the other hand, there are those who are desperate for God and know it,
but can hardly lift their eyes to heaven to ask God for mercy. Those are the young men I
often find crossing my path.

Who are some of the mentors that have marked your life? What made them significant?
 Timo Towne. He was and continues to be a close friend to me. He is some 3 years older
than me. When I was 13 and 14 he invested time in me, encouraging me in my faith and
praying for me. Timo’s influence is memorable because of the affirmation I always felt
when I am with him. He is a person who calls out the good in those around him. He is
also a very transparent person, allowing me to see not just how hard he was trying to
follow Jesus, but how he didn’t get it right all the time. The way Timo admits to failure
and is humble to ask for grace to continue on has had a great impact on me.
 Blaine Eldredge was a junior at Whitworth University when I was a freshman. Like
Timo, Blaine was able to call out the best parts of a person. I often came away from being
with him feeling like, “Wow, I just experienced a solid 45 minutes of affirmation!”
Blaine’s commitment to God and high-energy pursuit of Jesus’ calling on his life was
inspiring, encouraging, and compelling. He lived out what he believed in real time.
Blaine is someone I could support and follow into any situation, regardless of the risk.
 Jerry Sittser was the most influential professor me during university. His classes on
History of Christianity, Early Christian Writings, and Monasticism were incredibly
enriching to my faith. Jerry showed me that it is possible to be an excellent academic, an
intellectual, and to live in those worlds as a Spirit-filled Christian. He lived out a driving
passion for his research, all the while letting his research move him to worship the God of
the historical figures he was researching and writing about. Jerry taught me to observe the
Divine Office, stopping to pray for short intervals at specific times throughout the day.
 More recently, I turned to Jerry when I knew I needed godly counsel from someone I
could trust. Jerry’s gentle and honest advice, empowered no doubt by the Holy Spirit,
helped me completely evade a potential bout of depression as well as salvage heavily
damaged areas in my marriage.
 Aaron Gibson is a missionary here in southern Mexico. He teaches Bible classes and
preaches at churches and conferences. I approached him with the question, “Would you
consider taking on a theology student?” He didn’t give me an answer right then, but has
since organized a theology reading group as a response to my request. Though the
reading group itself has been invigorating, the greatest part of being around Aaron is that,
like Jerry, he isn’t interested in studying if the knowledge doesn’t eventually lead him to
worship God. He knows so much about a variety of issues, but his priority is to help
others learn to use their minds to worship God.
 Though I’ve mentioned a number of godly men here, I want to say that I have never had
what I think of as a real mentor. Since I was 14 I have deeply desired to have a person
like that to look up to, to learn from, and to be accountable to, but for a variety of reasons
I haven’t yet found one. I am glad that I’m rekindling my connection with Jerry Sittser
and I hope that that continues to take the shape of a mentor relationship.

What counsel would you give to me as a first-year Moody student?

 Find a mentor you can trust and submit yourself to his leadership. A mentor should not be
a peer, but someone at least a little older than you. A close mentor could have helped me
so much in processing and maybe even avoiding so many difficult experiences I went
through during my time in Spokane. I still hold that I needed that kind of relationship, but
didn’t have it. One difficulty is that if people think of you as the “most mature” person in
your age group, you wind being put in charge of everything and even having to be a
leader in church. This in turn creates a huge amount of pressure to continue being the
“most mature” person, which then keeps you from finding healthy interdependence with
others. In short, it's a vicious cycle that leads to isolation, spiritual and otherwise. I fell
for that one hook, line, and sinker.
 Find a church and stay there. I know it can take some months to find a church you feel
you want to be at, but don’t let it take you more time than a few months. Definitely not
longer than your first year of college. A local church family—even if they’re really weird
people—will provide you with much stability, not to mentioned some much needed
community. Spend time with your church family. Colleges and their students are almost
always in bubbles, and you need frequent exposure to families and normal life outside
Moody.
 Reach out to the weirdos at your school. Or at least don’t push them away if they want to
be around you. I’m referring to socially awkward, not-so-easy-to-be-around people. (1)
They need friends. (2) You can but shouldn’t tailor your friend group to fit exactly your
 social needs/preferences. In this and many other senses, college is a very unrealistic
environment. Use the luxury of being able to pick and choose whom you hang out with to
invite “the weirdos” to join in whatever it is you’re doing.

What scripture has been the biggest comfort to you?

 Psalm 90:1 “Lord, you have been our dwelling place in all generations.” Moses wrote
these words as he and the Hebrews wandered in the desert, camping in different places as
they went. As a missionary kid who doesn’t know where on this earth home is, this verse
hits the nail on the head: God is our home.
 Psalm 84:5 “Blessed are those whose strength is in you, whose hearts are set on
pilgrimage.” Again, the issue of finding home doesn’t go away. But this verse gives me
comfort in the fact that it’s OK and even blessed to be a pilgrim all my life
 Luke 18:29 “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or
parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, who will not receive many times
more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.”

What are the three main topics you would want to discuss with someone you are beginning
to disciple?
 Hold on the Bible, even when people you trust try to undermine its authority. “But ye
who did cling to Yahweh are alive every one of you this day.” (Deuteronomy 4:4) Hold
on to the Bible or you’re totally screwed.
 The gospel is for Christians. We can never know it well enough to preclude hearing it
again.
 Identity: we are sons and daughters of God. How does your story, its joy and pain, point
you to the fact that God is your designer and creator? Being a man in this world carries
brings with it a great deal of responsibility, and the road is not going to be easy. But the
fact that God made you a man and put you here on earth means that he is willing and
ready to strengthen and uphold you for the task ahead. As a son of God, you need to
know that you have what it takes.

Additional material
 Youth and college students spend most of their time studying. They are told to be quiet,
sit still, read, and write. Then comes youth group, or Bible study, or chapel or whatever,
and we (those of us trying make disciples) often tell them to be still, listen for God’s
voice as you pray, have your morning quiet time, journal, and read the Bible more. While
these are worthwhile activities, the overload of the same kind of activity renders the use
of them almost null. Until someone is of the age that they are no longer in any kind of
formal academic program, we need to be more creative in how we communicate truths of
God and the gospel to them.