Six Figure Coaching PDF

Module'1'–'Secrets'of'Six'and'Seven'Figure'Coaching'Programs'
Secrets of Six and

Seven Figure
Coaching Programs
Module 1
www.DobermanDan.com' Page'1'
Million Dollar Coaching

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HOW TO BUILD YOUR COACHING PRACTICE

MODULE 01
Glenn: My name is Dr. Glenn Livingston and I’m here with Terry Dean, Doberman
Dan Gallapoo and David Oliver. We want to talk to you today about the
secrets of six and seven figure coaching programs. Each of us here has
been a coach, we have been coached, we’ve been very successful, and we
would like you to be successful too. With that, I'd like to turn it over to Terry
Dean, who is what some people have termed the "Grandfather of Internet
Marketing". He was one of the earliest successes in the online world. He
had a discussion board that became the only pay discussion board on
Internet marketing at that time and that’s actually where I met him. He
subsequently sold it and retired before he was 30 years old and then picked
up a life of coaching a couple of years thereafter. So Terry, would you like
to take it away?
Terry: Sure. I’ll take it away. Just as Glenn mentioned, I first came online way
back in 1996. I did a lot of business online, helped a lot of people succeed
online and then I sold my business in 2004 and retired from the Internet for
a couple of years and pretty quickly I got bored. I wrote several books and
then started coaching practice in 2006 specifically. I came back on with the
real goal of helping entrepreneurs succeed online and I’ve been focused on
the coaching entrepreneurs since then.
What we’re going to talk about today is just how valuable coaching is to the
customers, also to the coaches themselves. If you’ve never done any type
of coaching whatsoever, I want to encourage you to know just how valuable
it will be in your business. I had a lot of clients who come to me who may
be an author or they produce eBooks or they produce other types of
information products. We’ve instituted a coaching program in their business
and it immediately enables them to move out into much deeper types of
advertising, because it’s much more profitable to their business overall while
producing better results for their clients.
Throughout this program, we’re going to be sharing how to do coaching no

matter what type of market or niche that you’re in. Also, how to add it to an
existing information products business or how to do coaching on its own
starting off.
Glenn: Terry, let me just underscore one thing that you said, which was that adding
the coaching component empowered people who were in other businesses
to expand their advertising, because they were more profitable on a per
customer basis. So in many ways, coaching can be what turns the corner
for your business.
These days everybody is trying to figure out how the computer can make
money for them all by itself. That’s great as a marketer, not always so great
as a consumer. We’re talking about adding coaching as a component to the
other things you do, no matter what you do, to help improve the value that
you bring to the market and help improve the profitability of your business
so that you can expand them in the way that you want to, right?
Terry: Yes. It’s actually been several years now. I have clients in all different
types of markets, something that I’ve basically seen that went across every
market online. If you’re in any type of information products, business the
sheer volume of information available to the client is overwhelming. I can
confidently say to every single client that I’ve had that their market is
overwhelmed with information already. It doesn’t matter what markets
you're going into. I can tell you that your market is overwhelmed with
information. What they need is action… they need help putting information
into action.
Dan: That is a million dollar tip right there.
Terry: If you’re in any type of information business you do e-Books, you do books,
you do courses. If you do speaking, coaching is something you could use
on the back-end.
Another type of listener for this program is maybe you’re already a coach,
you’re already coaching clients but you’re having trouble getting enough
people into your funnel or you’re having trouble making enough money as a
coach. The average coach actually earns less than $25,000 a year. That’s
not pretty. It’s not pretty at all.
Glenn: The average coach unfortunately spends most of the time coaching
other coaches, trading coaching sessions, and that’s not really what they
got into the business for. That’s not really what the dream was and that’s a
sad state of affairs so we’re here to fix that.
Terry: If you’re starting off as a coach already, we’re going to show you how to get
more clients into your practice. We’re going to talk about coaching models
in this module. In some of the later modules, we’re going to show you how
to put together a system that attracts clients to your practice. We’re going to
show you how to get better results with your coaching and you’re going to
see that as we go through the whole program. We’re going to show you
how to improve the results of your existing coaching practice.
So whether you’re someone who’s considering adding coaching to your

funnel of products or you’re an existing coach already, you’re going to find
that this program as being very valuable to you as we take you up to those
levels of six and seven figure coaches.
Glenn: Before we go a little deeper in the outline, would it be okay if I just asked
David Oliver and Dan Gallapoo to say a few words about who they are and
what their backgrounds are and what coaching means to them in their
careers?
David: I’m David Oliver. I’m in mental health – I’m in a couple of different market,
mental health and health and nutrition. Specifically in mental health, I
started doing coaching a number of years ago because from my particular
niche, there just wasn’t any coaching people really wanting practical how-to
advice on a one-on-one basis or in a group setting in support of written and
audio material.
So I started to see that people were bogged down with a lot of information.
They wanted to get this practical information and coaching was the vehicle
to deliver it. I saw that coaching would increase the average value of my
customers. It would help the customers get the goals that they wanted
faster and ultimately, it would create a situation where I would be in more
contact with customers and knowing what their difficulties are and their
problems which in turn would make me better. It also made me come up
with newer and better products and services to sell to other customers.
Glenn: It keeps you in touch with the market, right?
David: Exactly.
Glenn: David, would you be willing to say something about the volume of
customers you’ve worked with and what kind of percentages of people are
open to coaching or how much of a demand there is for it?
David: I have a couple of different coaching programs. I’ll tell you how I look at it.
I’ve had programs where I’ve had one-on-one coaching. I’ve had group
coaching over the phone. I have not done any in-person coaching at all.
I've done group and over the phone coaching. I have done one-on-one
coaching and then I’ve done coaching 30 in 30-minute coaching sessions.
My most popular coaching now is that when you buy one of my advanced
courses. It comes with 30-minute coaching sessions and that’s been the
most popular. And quite frankly, people have very targeted questions and
situations and I coach them on it and I make notes of it. It’s been fantastic.
Now there’s an incentive to buy my advanced program, it comes with

coaching. I have sold probably a few thousand advanced sessions that
come with coaching.
Glenn: Thanks, David.
David: No problem.
Glenn: Thanks. Dan, would you like to say a couple of words about your
background and what you’ve done in your life and how you came to be
doing this product with us?
Dan: Sure. My name is Dan Gallapoo. I’m better known as "Doberman Dan." I
prefer that by the way to avoid disparage my last name. Nobody can spell it
or pronounce it. Everybody remembers Doberman Dan; we’ll just go with
Doberman Dan, that’s fine with me.
I am a copywriter… but a serial entrepreneur first, a copywriter second. I

had to learn how to write copy because I wanted to start all these various
mail order and lines of businesses but couldn’t afford to hire a real
copywriter. I’ve been doing that since ‘94 up to ’96.
I had an epiphany a few years ago. I was just doing my thing. I just
watched trends and make money with them. Do products and things like
that. I contacted a lady who had done a seminar, videotaped it, and never
did anything with it. I negotiated rights to that product and put it all together.
I wrote the copy for it, got it up for sale. That’s just not no big deal. That’s
what I’ve been doing since 1994.
David Deutsch, a rather well known and extremely successful copywriter

contacted me and said, “What you did with that product is a really valuable
skill.” And I thought, “I’ll be darned? I never thought about it like that." But
I’ve been doing it for so long I took it for granted. I thought, but yes, he’s
right. There are a lot of people who don’t know how to do this and that is
quite valuable. I just had a little blog at the time about marketing which
wasn’t a business it was more or less a personal journal. . I just threw
something up there that I would coach people on how to do, what I do and
started coaching people how to do it, and that was my introduction into
coaching.
Of course, I'd seen the results of coaching myself from being coached by
other people. I realized the incredible value that that added to my life and
income but for some reason, I just never had considered offering myself as
a coach to other people until David Deutsch said that. So that’s kind of my
background and history with coaching.
Glenn: Thanks, Dan. Okay, Terry, back to you.
Terry: Back to me.
Why Should You Start Coaching?

Glenn: We talked a little bit about the very beginnings of why you might want to add
coaching to your marketing arsenal but why don’t we go into detail about
why should anybody bother with coaching? Why would you want to do this?
Terry: Okay, let’s give several reasons why somebody would want to do coaching.
The first reason is, you’re going to produce better results in your client’s life
than you will by using any other method. Nothing else even comes close.
And what I mean by that is, it’s a pretty recognized stat that the majority of
people who buy your information product, let’s just say it’s a book, the
majority of them don’t even read the book. That’s just a fact that we have to
live with. You’re going to find that those who do read the book, many of
them don’t take action on the book.
When you do coaching, you get to work with them directly. They get their
questions answered and you get to see real results with your clients. I can
easily say, that my clients, the ones I work with one-on-one, have a much
higher percentage of success and much faster than those that I don’t work
with - the ones that just pick up an information product. That’s because you
get to help them overcome the challenges while also giving them an avenue
where you are providing accountability to them for each step they’re taking.
Glenn: It is really frustrating to put your heart and soul into an information product -
Even if you are making a lot of money from it. For instance, you wrote a
book or you made a set DVDs or tapes or whatever it is. You’re making a
lot of money from it, but it is kind of soul-crushing to know that people are
just leaving it sitting on the shelves. I was put into this life to accomplish
things and make a difference and leave a legacy in some ways, not to take
money from people so they can put a token up on their shelf and feel like
they did something. I think that’s really important. I think that coaching just
makes the whole experience of being in business more real.
Terry: Second, coaching can produce an excellent income while doing something
that you enjoy. Something that’s really part of my practice is I always make
sure that I only have clients I enjoy working with, okay? I use a very big
qualifying process that I take people through because I only want to work
with specific types of clients. I’ve been known to even fire a client before
which is, first contact, they’re not right for me, refund them and send them
on their way because they weren’t right for me.
Glenn: Yes.
Terry: Once you think about this, it’s a great income working with people you love
working with, doing what you love. That’s exciting to me. For many
entrepreneurs out there, again, this could be a huge jump to your income
because if you’re just selling $20 eBooks then this is a way that you can
actually make advertising pay off because -- here’s the facts. Now, there
might be some very, very tight markets out there that you can still break
even on advertising a $20 eBook, but there’s not going to be many. The
majority of markets you go into, that $20 eBook is actually going to lose
money. It’s going to be a loss leader for everything else in your business.
Coaching makes it possible to run the business in many markets.
Glenn: Interesting. What you’re saying about perfecting your practice so that you
can have a practice full of people you enjoy. I spent a lot of time
supervising coaches and psychotherapists in the late ‘90s and I would say
the number one mistake that beginners make is they don’t realize that one
bad client can ruin your practice.
Even before you have more clients than you need, it’s really important you
define exactly who you want to work with, how you want to work with them,
what your boundaries are and be willing to uphold that. And if you are, you
can fill your practice with people that you love to work with. You don’t have
to be a primadonna about it. You can make a couple of compromises in the
beginning but by far, I’d say that was the biggest mistake that I saw new
coaches making when I started out is they let bad people get into their
practice. You look at your schedule and say, “Oh my God, I have to talk with
this person on Thursday”, and the whole week becomes heavy thinking
about that Thursday appointment and you just don’t want that.
Terry: The next one is, many information products are losing their value because
of the overwhelm which is also called the Kindle Factor. The Kindle Factor
is over on Amazon. You can find eBooks being sold for 99 cents. You can
find them being sold at $2.99, $4.99 and these other low priced products.
Some of them are very good products being sold over there.
What’s happening is you’re seeing general information product is beginning

to lose its value. For the clients I work with, this is a whole different subject.
In many cases, I have my clients produce what we call tool boxes not
information products because the information products don’t sell for
nearly as much as they used to.
Coaching lets us bypass that, because people are willing to pay for personal
service. If you make this connection, that means we can sell low cost
information products and build a bit larger lead generation funnel. Then the
coaching can bring in a lot of the funds and that’s what people are really
looking for anyway.
Glenn: It’s getting more and more difficult to run a business on a $47 eBook, right?
Terry: It is. And I would even venture to say that except in some very rare cases,
you can’t run a business on a $47 eBook anymore. I will definitely quote
this, "I never want to be in a position where I have to run a business on
a $47 eBook."
Glenn: Got you. Agreed.
Terry: The next point is the actual value clients bring into your life themselves.
You will learn from having clients. It will change you. You’ll end up
producing better information products because of the clients that you
worked with.
I produced information products for a long time before I did coaching. Once
I started coaching, I saw elements where my information products were
missing it because they weren’t really giving people enough of the step-by-
step system. I didn’t see that until we were in action and they started
asking me the questions.
I also produce a print newsletter at this point in time called the Monthly
Mentor Club. With that newsletter, almost without fail, every month, I get at
least two to three emails, if not more, telling me I hit something that they
were thinking about this month. Well, you know why it hit so often, what
they’re thinking about right now? It’s because that’s what my clients are
asking about right now. So I produced the newsletters based off of
questions and answers I’ve had with my own clients.
Glenn: It makes sense.
Dan: You’ve got your clients providing you with your content. That’s really smart.
Rather than guessing at what you should be teaching every month, you’ve
got your exact market telling you what you should be teaching.
Terry: You do.
What Clients Bring Into Your Life

Glenn: Can I talk a little bit more about some of the things that clients have brought
to my life which goes beyond the market research value, which I think is
really credible? You know I’m known for marketing research. Would that be
appropriate here Terry or do you want to go on?
Terry: What have clients brought to your life?
Glenn: I know we’re talking about coaching and not psychology but going way back
to when I worked as a clinical psychologist, I got to speak with a lot of
people on an intimate level. Everybody has a different way of solving life’s
problems. There are things that you could wrack your brain about and
never come to a solution with but just on the course of listening to people’s
stories and getting to listen on a more intimate level than they’ll share with
their friends and family in a casual conversation, you become a much
stronger person. Their stories get inside you and without you even knowing
it, you find you have solutions to problems that you didn’t know there were
solutions for and that you wouldn’t have solved without that relationship.
On a more practical level, I coach people through marketing processes now.

So I actually help people make money. When you help people make
money, they become very grateful and they want to do things for you and
with you.
I had a client that produced a very well-selling product and he gave me the
first opportunity to promote it before I had to compete with all the other
promoters for the commission. So at the very concrete level, that allowed
me to make hefty chunk of change without the competition.
I had one client, I helped him to bring his business from 1 million to 2 million
and he kept on asking me, “Glenn, could we do this business, Glenn, could
we do that business together?” And I kept saying I just don’t have the
wherewithal to take on another partner. He finally said, “Glenn, I’m giving
you 20% of this new business. You don’t have to do anything besides give
me the half an hour supervision that you’re giving me anyway. The whole
goal is just when this starts making a lot more, I think you’ll be more
interested."
So when you genuinely give to people and you genuinely try to help them
and you do help them and they get results, they want to give back and they
bring things to you that you could never have anticipated them bringing to
you.
The other thing I’ll say about what having coaching students does for your
life is that being an entrepreneur; it’s possible to become very isolated and
myopic. David Oliver and I are both hikers. David, you and I, we’d often
joke about how much time alone we’d spend in the woods. If you spend
time alone in the woods and then you spend time alone in front of your
computer, after a while, you start doing a little bit batty. Having that
personal contact with real people and being able to focus on their problems,
needs, concerns, business goals, it kind of takes you outside of that process
of myopia and prevents you from going crazy really. So it makes sense.
David: I’d like to add one other thing too. I’m definitely seeing that -- in mental
health field, you can always go and talk to people. In that field, you're just
talking to people who don’t have a clue. But as I look in other markets, it’s
getting harder and harder to talk to people who have a clue and know what
they’re talking about. People are clearly looking for guidance like coaching.
There’s a company called Practice Pay Solutions. They’re a merchant

account. They’ve built their company on providing merchant accounts to
coaches. Numbers for coaches are going up. The reason why I’m saying
this it’s just that people are looking for coaches. They’re looking for life
coaches, regular coaches. It’s definitely a trend, it’s a positive trend, and it’s
a wave that you can ride now.
Terry: Because of technology and everything being automated, everybody is

looking for personal solutions and a personal touch.
Glenn: Well said. Much better said, Terry.
Terry: With coaching for me, I’ve mentioned this before, because I often would
schedule my clients in two or three days, total. The majority of my clients
are over a three-day period when I’m doing any type of phone coaching. It’s
funny because Glenn has been the last client on one of those days, many
times. And I’ve said many times Glenn, I just absolutely love coaching. I
love the coaching days. I’m the happiest on the coaching days where I’m
helping people fix their businesses. I get to work with people as we’ve
already said. They appreciate you. They appreciate the help that you could
offer. They appreciate the changes that are made in their life and you can
actually see the results taking place. For whatever it is that you’re coaching
them on, you can see the results taking place over time.
That’s something you don’t get with the information products because you
might produce a book and everybody will tell you how wonderful the book is
but you don’t see the results very often. Some of them might mention it
back to you, they might send you an email about the results they have but
it’s different when it’s someone you’re speaking to on the phone or it’s
someone you speak to regularly and you can see the results taking place
from the actions they take.
One additional reason that I love coaching is solutions for my own business
are often found in the days that I’m coaching others. What I mean by that is
that we’ll be having a specific business problem. Someone has a specific
business problem. I’ll help them through it. I will coach them through the
problem and by the end of that call, I often say, you know, that was just a
brilliant solution. Write it down and use for myself.
Dan: Gee, aren’t I smart?
Terry: Gee, aren’t I smart? Why can’t I think of this on my own?
Glenn: I've had that experience too.
Dan: I got to backtrack on something that we didn’t cover but I think it’s really
important. Something that Terry said, it just went by really fast but I’d love
for you to elaborate. You said you can’t build a business on $47 e-books
nor would you want to. Could you explain why that is no longer the case?
Terry: The reason that building a business just on a $47 e-book is a hard road is
for the multiple reasons that we mentioned. The first of all, information is a
harder sell than it used to be. Information alone. Because people want
personal touch, they want stuff to be done for them. Then we have a very
busy life today. Our lives have become so specialized that people want the
specialist to help them with their unique problem as they see it. So that’s
the first one.
The second reason is, advertising has become much more expensive
online. Generating customers is more expensive than it used to be. I want
to have what we call multiple streams of income in my business and in my
practice because I will probably spend more than $47 to make a $47 sale.
There are people out there who are always trying to get the cheapest traffic.
They’re trying to get free traffic or they’re trying to get the cheapest traffic
that they possibly can because they’re trying to beat the math. The real
truth is you can never beat the math. Real quality traffic costs money and in
many cases, it’s going to cost you more than the first sale when you’re
selling a product with that price button.
Glenn: I know just a very few people who are able to liquidate their advertising cost
of $39 or $47 buck up front. But usually, they’re very advanced marketers.
They have a team behind them and you would never conceive of that as the
whole business model, because they could never pay for the salaries of the
team who is able to crack the advertising liquidation in the first place would
cost. Way, way, way back when clicks were cheap on Google, I actually
had 17 different little e-book businesses. I don’t call them businesses; I call
them arbitraged opportunities or little streams of income. I was making
some good money for a while but it’s just not possible these days. It's just
not.
David: I’m just going to add one quick point here. A lot of people are lazy and
they’re unfortunately not going to do coaching so coaching is something
that’s not as easily copied. The $47 e-book is easily copied. You really see
this in the weight loss industry with weight loss e-books and video sales.
Everybody has a weight loss e-book and video sales letters these days
because it’s easily copied. The people buy the book, they look at it, and
then they copy video sales letter. With things like coaching, they are much
more difficult to copy.
Glenn: That’s a good point.
Personal Experiences in Coaching

Terry: It is. Let’s move on and let’s talk a little about our own personal experiences
in coaching. I can’t remember what year it was, maybe back in 2000, 2001,
not sure exactly when. The first person I paid for coaching was John
Carlton. It was interesting, because he’s a copywriter and I would send over
copywriting materials to him. He would review them and send me back
results. I’m going to say a good thing and a bad thing about him. The good
thing is, just one of the headlines he changed for me made me over $36,000
the next year, extra. I think the fee for his coaching was somewhere around
$2000 or $3000 at the time. He made one headline change on one site and
I got an extra $36000 the next year from that website. I'm saying extra
$36,000 in addition to what I would have already earned once I actually did
the test and seen the difference in numbers. That’s an awesome result right
there.
Now I’m going to give the negative about being coached by him and that is,
I don’t think he actually read the whole sales letters. I don’t think he read
them at all. I think he spotted the headline that needed changing then told
me how good the rest of it was, kind of ignoring the rest of it. He took quite
a while to get back to me. It was still what I would consider a very profitable
coaching time for me because again, it wasn’t just that letter, he did it for
several other sites as well, including helping me with the headline for
NetBreakthroughs. That wasn’t his well test, he helped improved
NetBreakthroughs headlines also. I don’t know exactly how
much money that would be. But that would probably be much more than
the $36,000 that I did test and track for sure.
Dan: Do you mind sharing the program with him that worked? I mean, is it one on
one coaching, was it phone coaching?
Terry: His coaching was simply more specifically you paid him I think it was $2000
or $3000 for the year. You could send him your sales letters to review. You
had to send it by mail or you could only send him a marketing question by
mail. I would send over sales letters to him. I had my website sales letters
and I’d print them out and send them to him because that’s how he asked
for it. Then he would reply by email from the letter that you sent him. That
was very valuable to me. Now I also have a very negative experience with
a coach that I’m not going to give you the name of.
I was fine to tell you John’s good and bad points since he made me so
much money. The negative coach, basically paid them a monthly fee and
we'll just keep it short. They didn’t show up for the calls when they’re
planned for. I’ve sent an email, they didn’t respond for like a week and a
half. That got old very quickly for me as a negative experience with a
coach.
Glenn: I could see why. The only thing that could make it any better is that if he
came over to your house and peed on your lawn.
Terry: Pretty much.
Dan: Naturally, my morbid sense of curiosity wants to know. If you did mention
the name, would this be a well-known guru that everybody would
recognize?
Terry: No. And that’s probably the reason why, they weren’t reliable. Everybody
wouldn’t recognize him. Some people might, but not everybody. They
weren’t a reliable person so they’re not someone I’d recommend.
Glenn: I had a coach. I still talk to him actually. And it’s not Terry. Unfortunately,
this one is not Terry. But there’s a guy who I talk to when I was a corporate
consultant doing work for Bausch and Lomb. We were doing projects that
were like $50,000, $100,000. It was marketing research. All of a
sudden, there was this problem that they presented, that was an
international problem. They wanted to coordinate the positioning for their
brand worldwide. They wanted to figure out how to document the emotional
response to different advertising platforms without having to ask people
directly what they were feeling or thinking or anything like that.
I saw a solution that no one had come up with before. I was like, gosh! How
old was I? I must have been like 30, maybe 31. I was kind of young. I said
to my coach, I kind of see the solution but I can’t believe I could do this.
This would be like a million dollar project that I'd have to coordinate 2000
people! He just gave me the confidence that I could do it because he
walked me through it step by step and showed me that all I was doing was
exactly what I knew how to do already on a grander scale.
If I didn’t have someone who I, a) believed was making a million dollars a

year and could teach me how to do it and b) had the skill to recognize my
anxiety as opposed to my skills then I wouldn’t have gotten that project.
We got that project and the next year was really very heady, flying around
the world and running this million dollar project all about vision for Bausch
and Lomb. I would have just walked away otherwise. I can actually say that
I did have a coach that helped me make a million dollars. Gross, not net,
but it was quite a lot of net.
I’ve had other clients that have taught me kind of interesting lessons.
There’s this one 16-year-old girl that I worked with. At the time, I was trying
to be extraordinarily professional on everything that I did. I was kind of

going by the book. One of the things you learn is your clients have the
answers, you don’t necessarily have the answers.
It was Father’s Day and she said. "What did you get your dad for Father’s
Day?" And I said, "What do you think? You know me, what do you think I
got my dad for Father’s Day?" She said, "No, no, no. What did you get
your dad for Father’s Day?" And I said, "I’d really like to know what you
think if you can explain to me why it would be better for you to know what I
think I will tell you but I’d really be curious to know what you’re thinking.
We're here to talk about you."
And she said, “Listen, I’m going to count to three and I’m going to get up off
my chair and I’m going to bitch slap you if you don’t tell me what you got
your dad for Father’s Day.” And so I told her what I got my dad for Father’s
Day and it led to this wonderful conversation about what she wants to get
her dad and like at that moment, she intervened with me and kind of took
me off my high horse and showed me that, it’s not always about the book,
it’s not always about following the exact rules.
I’ve often thought about that moment when I’m in the midst of other
problems and situations finding myself trying to act a little too formally and
getting myself to be more down to earth.
Terry: So you didn’t get slapped?
Glenn: I didn’t get slapped, no. I think we talked about some of the other benefits
where you can improve your own products and helping your clients.
Which Coaching Model is Right For You?

Terry: Let’s move in to coaching models. Let’s talk about the different types of
coaching that are available. The one that people most know of and
recognize is phone coaching. We have a phone session, its set for a
specific time frame. Some people might do their one-off sessions but I
wouldn’t recommend anybody just doing sessions as one session. You
need to sell coaching memberships even if it’s one-on-one as packages.
We’ll get more into this as we get later into the program.
One-on-one coaching over the phone is the first way that you can deliver
coaching. I actually like doing a limited number of one-on-one phone clients
because of all the interaction that we’ve talked about up to this point. The
one-on-one clients that I deal with on the phone are the ones that you can
really hear the emotions back and forth. You’re going to get in best touch
with what the market wants and the feelings of the market. Some of my best
market research, I’m not nearly as skilled as Glenn about doing the market
research, but some of my best market research is actually these one-on-one

phone calls that I do with clients.
Glenn: Now I was trained traditionally to build a whole phone practice like that. I
actually used to spend 55 or 60 hours a week doing that. I find that as I
transitioned from doing more relationship coaching and working with people
on personal issues to working on business issues, I find that I’m much more
effective in an asynchronous environment.
I actually use a coaching board where people can write to me about what
they’re struggling with. I let them post once a week and they can make a
very full post, tell me what they’re struggling with and I ask them to try to
focus on one question when they’re done with their post so I know how to
prioritize my response.
I read it, sometimes I read it several times and then I think about it for a
while. The reason that I find that’s more effective is that first of all, I have
the time to let the emotions flow through me so that I’m giving them the best
of my intellectual knowledge about what will work in their business rather
than my emotional reaction to their excitement or disappointment about
something.
And secondly, I find that business solutions often require a lot of creativity.
When I’m forced to be creative in the moment, I’m not necessarily brilliantly
creative. But if you give me a problem and tell me to think about it for a day
or two, somewhere in the course of that day or two, something will pop into
my mind that will be an insightful solution or at least, an insightful next step.
I find that I’m much more effective in using a coaching board. It’s harder to
sell than the one-on-one phone sessions even though it’s more effective. At
least for me, it’s more effective. It’s harder to sell because people really
want a personal contact but I was able to do it effectively when my list was
large enough and also when I had a step by step systematic approach to
researching a market and growing a business. Because as people
consume the information about that step by step approach, they gradually
became convinced. Then it wasn’t like I was a coach being compared to
other coaches who offered phone sessions. I was the only guy who could
help them through this step by step process and it became really easy to
sell that board.
Does that make sense, Terry?
Terry: It makes sense. The secondary way that I do coaching is similar to the
board but a different process. I actually have clients who are what I call,
email only coaching clients. The coaching board has the advantage that it’s
easier to retrain them at first. The email coaching has a negative in that a
lot of people think of email as something they send quick. So it takes a

training for my clients from the very beginning that when I do email only
coaching, we’re really only doing pretty much "Here’s an email, send over
the email, when I get back to you on the email then we can continue the
conversation. Don’t send five emails." That’s something I have to tell every
client.
Glenn: So Terry, you know what? What I haven’t told you is that I sometimes
transition from the coaching board to email. The coaching board seems to
train them about those boundaries that we have one very significant
exchange. And then at some point, they say, "Well, it’s kind of a pain in the
neck to do the formatting in the board or it’s hard to upload the attachment,
could we just use email?" And I'll say, "Sure. As long as we have the same
communication, that’s really fine." And that’s never been a problem.
Terry: It’s all about having the boundaries. So if you want to think about the board,
email’s the same thing if you can hold your boundaries. And this is funny. I
have clients who are in consumer type markets so they're helping people
with things like weight loss. They almost never have to set the boundaries
that hard because people already only send like one before they get a
contact. The way that my email coaching works like this: I coach people
Monday through Thursday by email and I'll respond to them within 24 hours
on Monday through Thursday. Unless it’s a holiday like it’s Christmas or
something.
David: Terry, you only allow one email per day, right?
Terry: At times, I let them do a little bit more than that, but that’s the official.
David: I got that from you and that’s what I did. And then I found that I didn’t even
care once I've realized that people weren’t abusive. I would tell people
especially in mental health, there are just very difficult situations that I’d tell
them, go ahead and email me as much as you want. I never had abuse.
Terry: I actually have a lot of clients especially the ones that who’ve been around a
long time. I definitely don’t complain to them if they send me three emails in
a day. And each email is a quick two-line answer that they had a problem
for. The only time I've ever complained to a client about sending too much
email is when they send, say a bunch of reviews. Can you review this
email? Can you review this website? Can you review this email over here?
No, I can’t do all that.
David: Wouldn’t you agree to those newbies, like if that were to happen, it wouldn’t
be like one of your best clients would have lost his mind.
Terry: It’s been both newbies and long-term people that that’s happened to at
times.
Glenn: I find that people’s urgent requests decline in proportion to the extent that
they believe you’re really there for them. People can sense if you’re trying to
do the least amount possible and you really don’t want to hear from them
and you’re just kind of doing this for the money. They can sense that. But if
they know that you really want to help them and they can sense that from
your response, then they really value the relationship and they don’t want to
do anything to risk the relationship.
On occasion, with people I have coached for a very very long time,
sometimes they’ll start to ask for things that might be inappropriate like, not
could you review this sales letter for me but could you edit it and rewrite this
section for me and then I’ll have to say, "We'll, you know that’s more
consulting than coaching and here’s what I suggest you do instead."
If I have to do something like that early on in the relationship then I’ll say
that with, "Listen, I'll totally understand if you want a refund for this, if you
don’t want to work with me because of this and I wasn’t clear enough about
this. That’s totally okay." Whenever I say that, nobody’s ever said, "Yes, I
want a refund. I don’t want to work with you anymore." They just say, "Oh
no, no, no. I'm sorry, I didn’t understand."
I think what creates the problem with the boundaries with email and
coaching boards and even phone calls, is either not training well enough in
the sales materials and in the up front communications or trying to do
absolutely as little as possible for people and they sense that. And so they
get really hungry and they're trying to get more.
Terry: I have to throw in one also because here’s a huge mistake I made with
email coaching. I’ve had weeks where I didn’t have as many projects as I
needed to get done on my own so I ended up checking my email more
often. It was a huge mistake to answer clients more often. What you
have to do, if you do email coaching is to have a very set time that you
answer clients. That’s the time that you answer every day no matter when
they send. So anybody who’s doing email, let me say this between the
coaching board and the email, you need to use the coaching board unless
you can control your email passions.
The reason is that you have to be willing to let the email sit there in your
email box till a specific time and that’s when you respond. You can’t be
checking your email all day long. You have specific period. You go in. You
check your email. You do it. That’s the only way you can do email
coaching. If you try to do it all day long or respond back, you will be driven
nuts.
Glenn: I just want to say if you are someone who gets addicted to email because it
makes you feel important, then you probably shouldn’t do email. You should
use the coaching board or schedule phone calls.
David: One thing I would say too and this is mental health, people start thinking
things are erratic. It’s your job as the coach to refocus people and get them
to understand how they have to be more focused, less chaotic, less
traumatic, more planned. This is almost in every market - which things are
emergencies and which things aren’t. I think that’s the job of a coach. I
don’t know if you guys agree with that.
I can tell you an example that might happen to Terry. Someone decides,
“Terry, can you look at this letter? Oh my god, my campaign is going out in
one hour.” Emailing Terry a million times, like freak out, freak out, freak out.
And really, the coaching lesson is look - you have to get email campaign
set-up three to four days in advance. You need to look at your creative
like this is all part of the coaching process, because this is me coaching the
people who work for me, who used to wait until 10 minutes after the
deadline to freak out. I think that part of coaching is getting people to not
freak out.
Glenn: A lack of planning in your part doesn’t constitute an emergency in my part.
Terry: Yes, that fits well. Any of my clients can easily say there is a specific time
that they know I respond every day. I think it's right around 8 to 9 o’clock in
the morning that there is always a response right around that time. After I
do about an hour of writing, then is to respond to the emails and so that’s a
consistency they can expect.
Glenn: Another trick with that, not really trick, but a technique for maintaining your
sanity is sometimes I'll get a long email from a client. It’s their time to send
it and it’s totally appropriate that they send it but I'm just overwhelmed. I’ll
say, "Hey John! You know what? I just want to let you know that I got this.
I’m kind of pushed for time and this email looks like it needs a little more
attention than usual. Would it be okay if I respond to it on Thursday or on
Friday?"
Sometimes I'll even say, depending on how well I know the person is,
"Anything urgent, you can call me." Anytime I’ve said that, they’ve never
have. It returns the control to you and allows you to work when you really
want to work which you know what? It’s in their best interest that you do that
anyway. They really shouldn’t want a rushed response from you. They
should want a well-considered response with the full force of your
intelligence and creativity so that they can solve what they’re trying to solve.
That’s another thing you can do to keep control.
David: I just want to add one other thing I just remembered to. Terry, I don’t know
if you remember this, but I’ve mentioned this to you, that especially in
mental health, we actually teach people how to write appropriate questions.
So we have bad email samples and good email samples. In the bad emails,
there are no paragraphs. It’s a gigantic block. In mental health, the worst
emails are stories like, "Oh, my son has schizophrenia and he did all this
stuff. And then oh, by the way the police came and then my neighbor’s
driving me crazy. Then I saw this thing on TV that made me mad because
they were meant to people with schizophrenia." And it's just irrelevant.
What we’ve done is, we’ve made how to submit a question kit and then
we have bad emails and good emails, that has helped tremendously.
Because I still get people who ignore that, they don’t even look at the kit.
So when they send me an email, all I do is email back the kit and ask them
to reformat it based on the instructions in the kit.
Glenn: That’s great. That’s a great idea.
Terry: That is a great idea.
Glenn: I’m going to steal that.
David: Yeah, it is great.
Terry: I’m going to steal it also.
David: We really do stress because this is something that we teach in coaching

that in mental health, you only have 15, 20 minutes with the doctors. Going
in rambling about all this stupid stories is not helping your cause. We talk
about short paragraphs. We talk about bullet points. We talk about one
page, half page summaries and those things that we really, really stress.
We also talk about your most important questions first; your least important
questions after the most important questions. I used to go insane getting
these emails that I'd have to send to somebody who works for me to
reformat and figure out what was the question then send it back to me.
That’s what I used to do five years ago and then I adopted this system
about three years ago.
Glenn: When I was a psychologist, I so totally would have loved if all my intakes
were people who had your system beforehand. Do you have any feedback
from the doctors that you send these people to?
David: Absolutely. They say the people who go there, they're the greatest because
they come with summaries, everything’s explained, they take notes, and
they’re not a big pain. I just figured that out from an efficiency standpoint,
but really the email system. The whole coaching system that I set up in this
particular, it did come from Terry though. I’m very grateful for Terry sharing
that because I never even saw his coaching program anywhere. All I saw
was those big money ones. Terry’s very reasonable with the cost.
Meaning, Terry wasn’t charging $25,000 a year and goes meet in a room
three times, four times a year. I don’t know what it is now. I think -- is it
$1000 a month, Terry? $2000?
Terry: Well, I have this program currently at $500 a month or a $1000 a month.
Mastermind Groups Don’t Fit All Markets

David: Right. So when I saw that, was it possible for me to have a $500 or a $1000
a month program in mental health? Absolutely. Did that make sense? Yes.
Did it make sense to have a $25,000, people fly in, three or four times a
year in mental health? Absolutely not. That’s why Terry’s program works
great. In my opinion, you could take -- depending on your situation, maybe
you feel comfortable with $500 and $250. Or in your particular niche, you
know $2000 and $1000. I really felt that Terry’s program was a perfect
model for me and it worked great.
Terry: David mentioned the next coaching model. We've had one-on-one phone
coaching. We have the coaching boards / email type of model. There's
also what we call the mastermind groups or even what we can call quarterly
mastermind groups such as David was talking about.
I don’t run a small group mastermind quarterly like some groups do. I don’t
have a lot of experience on that topic. What I have found is that the big
mastermind groups are a tough sell unless you have a large list. Let’s first
talk about what is a mastermind group.
When we talk about mastermind groups in coaching, generally, they are

groups of say, 15 people that we bring together and four times a year. We
come together and we help each other with the projects. We come in small
group, discuss each other’s problems; see if we can solve the problems
together as a mastermind group.
Now these are often those high priced programs as David mentioned that
coming in at $10,000, $15,000, or $25,000. You see them in business-to-
business markets. What I’m saying here is the coaching model that we’ve
been talking about up to this point and we’re going to continue to talk about
throughout the course is a much easier sell than the mastermind groups.
The mastermind groups require you to have a large list, a large audience,
and in most cases, when I've seen them sold, they're sold either through
strong phone follow-up on customers or they're sold in a seminar
conference type atmosphere. They’re not an easy sell online such as the
other models that we’re going to talk about.
David: Terry, can I jump in?
Terry: Of course.
David: And that’s really important to know because I think a lot of people don’t
realize this, but the numbers are staggering to get one person who’s going
to do a mastermind coaching program. It starts with, just so people
understand, with how that model would work. There’s an initial front-end
customer. Someone’s buying let's say a $50 product. There are free trial of
newsletter or something for between zero and $50. Then they buy other
things that are a couple of $100 and then they read, they watch stuff, they
hear things. Now they start to become familiar with the owner of the
business, or the main person. And then, through this large numbers at
seminars, usually high pressure, a lot of persuasion tactics, you can get
people under those masterminds. So a lot of people don’t realize the
mechanism that’s required to build that type of coaching business. Whereas
Terry, what he's going to be talking about in his program, is completely
doable.
Glenn: I think before you try to do that, you need to ask yourself, “Have I ever paid
$25,000 a year for a coach?” And if you have, under what circumstances
and go back and trace the roots that you got to that coach and how did that
coach get that level of trust and commitment from you? I think that can put
things in perspective.
Terry: Right. Don’t think of it from the price standpoint, think of it more as the
mastermind group and the time people have to take out for it. And also, the
other reason we’re not really presenting the mastermind group in this
session is the fact that mastermind groups really only work well in a
business-to-business perspective so high end, extremely profitable markets.
I haven’t seen them effectively done on the consumer side.
Glenn: That’s a good point.
David: Let’s just comment on why that is. Because if you're in a mastermind, and I
think it’s great we’re talking about this, there are some people who, they'd
be okay making $20,000 on a $25,000 investment, they really would.
They'd say "Ah, you know what? Maybe the next year, in the first year,
maybe the next year, I can make another $20,000, $25,000." So there’s
that ROI. It’s very difficult in an environment we’re not trading dollars,
what's this whole saying again where --
Glenn: Dollars for hours?
David: Where you're essentially -- you can't make a promise of making the money
back. If I'm teaching somebody how to lose weight, why would they pay
$25,000 dollars unless they're a celebrity or something like that, but that's
not going to be most people or I'm teaching someone how to help their dog,
or be a better parent.
You could go super niche and find individuals that want to get their kids in
the Ivy League schools that are extremely wealthy that might spend
$20,000, but it's very improbable. That's why I want everyone to understand
the reason why you could charge more with this business to business
masterminds is simply because people in their own mind, they're being told,
invest $25,000 today, make $1 million this coming year or next year or
$100,000 dollars or there sum of multiple that's going to be generated in
income for what you invest in the coaching program.
Glenn: You can justify it on a return of investment argument.
David: Yes. That's exactly it.
Terry: Well and the other thing that's mentioned here is on the consumer side
again, if you were selling a $25,000 or even a $50,000 coaching program,
you can get it in some of the consumer markets if you have built yourself up
as that celebrity in the market. You're not going to get people to pay
$25,000 to $50,000 for a mastermind group even with a celebrity in a non-
business market. They'll pay for the personal access though.
David: Right.
Glenn: Would it be funny in like guinea pig market how to take care of guinea pigs, I
could have made a $25,000 mastermind group?
David: The thing is too, I will say is that you've got to ask yourself the question, "Is
that something you feel comfortable with, that you'd want to do, that you
want to meet on this basis?" You just have to think about that.
The reason why again, I go back to Terry's model and I think it's perfect for
lots of people is that if something went wrong, I only have a month
commitment, it's not a year commitment. I was always afraid to get into
some long commitment then I have to refund people. But month to month, if
I wanted to shut the whole thing down, there's has been period where I've
shut my coaching down. If I shut down now, there's been periods when I
open and I can close it down because it's on a month to month basis.
Glenn: That's a good point.
Terry: It is.
Glenn: And by the way, I sell my coaching at a month to month basis, but I've had
people that stayed with me for years, years, and years, and years.
Terry: I have several clients who have been with me since the first month I offered
coaching in 2006.
Glenn: Wow.
David: Terry, let's talk about that for a second. That's essentially six years ago,
that's $12,000 a year times six, $72,000. If you had a few of them, I mean
that's -- I don't know what the math is, but you can see, there's a certain
percentage that would want to stay with Terry forever.
Terry: You also have to remember when you are doing the math here, I didn't
charge as much in 2006 as I do today and I've never increased rates on
clients that are active. So the original starting price, those clients actually
have a cheaper price than the clients do today.
David: Oh, I see.
Terry: And they've had it all the way through. Some people might want to raise
prices, but I've always had a policy in my own practice that I don't raise
prices on currently active clients.
David: Right.
Terry: Unless we have some huge inflation someday. So 30 years from now, any
client listening to this, 30 years from, now I'm going to raise the prices on
you.
Dan: There were several people paraded across the stage as the golden boys,
these guys done what I've told them and look what they've done. And what
the pitch was is they were talking about their coaching programs. It was this
whole model that we've been talking about where it says, high to other
model, $25,000 a year, $50,000 a year, whatever and so all these guys
were, "Good, tell us about your coaching program." "Well, I charge $30,000
a year and plus, I get 5% of the person's growth business and blah, blah,
blah." It was person after person after person and it was almost like it's off-
pitched because what they were pitching you on was paying really big
money to learn how to do that coaching model.
And it seemed quite deceptive to me because like you guys have been
talking about the past 15 minutes, that is just a really difficult thing to sell,
but unfortunately, it's a very sexy thing to sell. So a lot of people say that
like, "Hey man! Get into coaching because this is how you make the big
bucks."
There's one woman rather famous, her coaching program is $100,000 a

year. So that's a real sexy thing to sell. But the reality is, that's not an easy
thing to do at all. The kinds of model that you guys are sharing are much
more realistic. This is the way to do it. This is the way you can actually
make money as a coach. Don't believe you're going to get into this and
start selling a $100,000 a year coaching program, you're just delusional.
David: Yeah. I'd like to add one other thing to while I'm thinking about it. On those
programs - and I think Glenn would really agree with this - If you start
charging people that kind of money, you've really got to be delivering or you
open yourself up to a chargeback. I know what these guys do. This is what
they do. They're think, "Oh, I know about chargebacks." They'll chargeback
on the credit card so I'll take a check. But if you screw people or you don't
deliver what you're supposed to and people get mad and you don’t have a
strong relationship, you'll have people go to the attorney general, file a
lawsuit, consumer claims, it's risky.
A lot of those people had those high end programs have problems and they
do have to refund. So they're just telling you front end numbers, bragging
about that, but in Terry's model, Glenn's model, my model, the risk is much
lower.
Like that woman that you're talking about, I forgot her name, that's a lot of
money to get from somebody. Now, what are you getting for that kind of
money? It's a big question mark for me. I wouldn't think it's worth it. She
could argue with me all day long, which I would love to debate that. I would
imagine that that's opening up some serious liability.
Glenn: The other part of the numbers that I think are maybe a little deceptive is
when you say you're going to get 5% of your gross business or 10% of the
gross business. Dan, how many people do you know who actually made
those deals and then were able to collect in that 5% or 10%?
Dan: None.
Terry: Right.
Dan: I've been writing copy since '94. Here and there, I've done, I guess a fair
amount of freelance work over the years. It wasn't my fulltime deal, but now
I'm talking about every single copywriter I know and I know hundreds of
them including Gary Halbert. I was trained, I mentored with Gary Halbert
including the best of the best who make it known that "Well, I get this huge
retainer fee, I also get 5% of your gross sales." Nobody pays those,
nobody, nobody, nobody. It's all a lie.
For whatever reason client incompetence - mostly client incompetence or

client dishonesty, you never get paid those deals. Halbert himself told me,
"Look," he goes, "I always ask for royalty, but it never gets paid. You get
paid up front, you better be satisfied because nobody's ever going to pay
you the percentage that they promise."
So that all sounds good, that sounds sexy, one of those guys would
promote that in their coaching programs, "I get 5% of their business." You
know what? They're not getting 5%.
Glenn: Everybody that's out there thinking they're going to make their coaching
programs less expensive and they're just going to take a percentage of what
their clients earn, maybe want to think again.
David: There's a particular marketing coach and he's been in a lot of deals, and
he's never gotten paid either with a whole lot of people who’ve built
businesses, and he's not gotten paid. I think those types of arrangements,
it's just not good to count on them.
Terry: Look at it this way, why would you want to set up your coaching clients,
which, with me, some of my coaching clients have become really good
friends. That's where we're at with it. Why would you want to set up a
payment schedule that makes you an adversary?
Glenn: Right.
Additional Coaching Models

Terry: That's what we're talking about from the beginning. You're making yourself
an adversary from the beginning. We don't want to do that with our
coaching clients. I want them to be friends.
Let's move on here because we don't want us to get stuck in this section. I
want to mention one more negative to coaching because I want to get it out
of the way. Let's keep the discussion here shorter so we don't run off on a
tangent here.
And that negative is the coaching program, especially that people see in the
business opportunity field, they see in some of the self-help fields and those
are the coaching programs where you pay a fee, often $5000, $10,000 and
you're assigned to a coach that's an employee for the company. You're not
coaching with the expert. You're not even coaching with somebody who
perhaps is a franchise expert.
What I want to make sure I'm defining here is I'm talking about coaching
programs, “pay us $10,000, you will be coached,” and then they assign an
employee at the company who might never have accomplished the results
that they're achieving to be a coach for you.
Glenn: I got sucked into one of those.
Terry: How did you get suckered into that?
Glenn: It was for a very big name brand, a very, very big name brand. And I had
read the book and I was really enamored with the book. It was $7,500 and
they assigned an employee and basically the employee was largely
interested in whether or not my system worked and could I teach her my
system. She had never had her own business and it was really bad.
Terry: There are a lot of those in the Internet marketing field for example. I'm sure
people have been presented with those and those are often really heavy
phone follow ones as well in this field.
I want to throw in one definition so we can separate them out. I'm talking
about again - it's an employee going through somebody else's system.
There are some good franchises that do coaching where they teach an
entrepreneur who's already successfully run a business. They require
somebody, to be a coach in their team, they have to have run their own
business for at least five years before they can train to be a coach. Then
they go off and they run their own coaching business.
That's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about somebody who's an
employee, assigned to train through this material, and they've never
accomplished the subject.
David, you were going to say something?
David: I was just going to say that I have a model for our new coaching program,
one where you have two times a week that you can call in and ask
questions. The questions actually have to go through email, and then the
questions will be read out loud. There's going to be two to three of us, me
and two other people in mental health, who are going to be answering them.
I'm believing that I can expand it beyond me.
The price point will be right that I can have the coaching being done without
me because these people I trust, but that's how I’m going to start testing,
and I'm very confident that that will work. But I had built up the coaches
that will be on that call and they know what they're talking about,
people know who they are, but that's a good way for me to leverage
myself and I'm pretty confident that will work.
Terry: That will be along the second line, these are people that have already been
trained up that can do the subject, that have been through the problems and
know the answers to the problems.
David: Right.
Terry: So we're not talking somebody who's just handed a manual and coach with
it.
Let's go to another model of coaching, and that's group coaching, which I

think Glenn, the make-them-buy club is a good model to talk a little bit about
for group coaching.
Glenn: Yeah. I discovered something interesting. Terry and I had a product called
"The Total Conversion Code" and we have a club associated with it. And
what was really interesting to me was how few people out of all the buyers
have actually show up live.
So the way it works is, like let's say there is 350 members, maybe 35 of
them will show up live to talk, and the offer is "Hey, I'm going to hold a twice
monthly webinar where we're going to review, starting to do interactive
questions and answers." If only 10% of them show up live, only 10% of
those actually interact with you. More than 10% of those will interact in the
chat box, but only about 10% of those will interact verbally.
And so you have this really leverage situation where you could have this
conversation with 1 out of 100 paying members, and they all think they're
getting this phenomenal deal because they're paying $35, $40 a month. But
really, every 1 person you're talking to, you're making $3500 a month for
that.
It's really interesting leverage group situation and there is a service called
go to webinar which is for the inexpensive webinar technology service and
they have a low monthly fee and they have a bunch of training videos. I
was actually telling David Oliver the other day that, "Look, if you want to do
this, you just sign up for an account and you spend an afternoon watching
their videos, and you're pretty much okay. The technology is not as
overwhelming as it used to be and you can get over that."
I found that to be terrific because I actually offered it at a very low cost trial
like $5 for the first month, then I give them a bunch of bonuses to incent
them to do that, and the conversion is really great, at least it is so far on my
list and the people that know me.
The other thing I've been doing recently in the club, in terms of the structure,
is I actually want to encourage more group interaction because I find that if
people are willing to get on the phone and talk to me, the webinars are a
little less stressful and I think people get more out of them.
I hold a contest during every webinar at the beginning I say, "Hey, at the
end of today's call, whoever makes the most helpful comment about the
person's website we are reviewing, as determined by the person who's
getting reviewed, whoever makes the most helpful out loud comment
is going to get 10 minutes free with me. And that kind of heats up a little
competition and a few more people talk. It's been going really great so far,
kind of just discovered this in the last couple of months. I'm thinking about
opening a couple of more of them, one for my wife to do, one maybe on
another topic because what they're paying for is the option to talk to me
directly. It's really hard to get to me directly otherwise, you have to pay for
the coaching board or you need to come to one of this group webinars.
It's like a no brainer for them, it's an opportunity for them to have interaction
with me directly. But for me, it really works because its leveraged and it
keep a lot of customers happy. Actually, it has supercharged the rest of my
business because people feeling like they're in personal contact with me
and they really can be, I mean I try to answer everybody's questions that
actually shows up at the webinar, even people that hear this. I mean, I
actually tell people what the stats are and I still only get 10% of the people
to show up, but they feel like they've got access to you and all of a sudden,
you are more of a real person. My conversion rates go up a little bit on
everything else. It's just been a really good thing to do.
Terry: Group coaching is another model that anyone can follow. I'm thinking about
through my different clients, for group coaching, they offer all different types
of benefits to the smallest one client runs one webinar in a month. I have
another client that does four webinars a month, so they do one every week
as a group coach, and they deal with all different subjects. Sometimes its
review club like what Glenn is doing. Other times, it's teaching information
on the subject that people always get access to ask questions there so it
always got that group coaching atmosphere, so it's a group coaching
together.
Sometimes it's very small group such as 15 people. Sometimes its large
groups. And the pricing is anywhere from about (what Glenn said) down
around the $30 a month up to the highest client in a business to business
niche that is charging $500 a month for our group coaching program. There
are a lot of different things you can do on group coaching.
A lot of the systems we're going to be showing you throughout the course
can be done as a one-on-one over the phone thing. It could be done
through a coaching board email type of setup. Or it can be done through
group coaching. For most clients, I would have you institute all of those in
most businesses.
Glenn: Yeah. Because there are people who want the privacy and personal
contact every week and then there's people that just kind want to know that
you're there and they feel like they're not totally alone, and they could get
you if they wanted to. And there are people that just want to consume the
info products so I agree.
Terry: If you actually think about this, in the pricing model that also gives you three
price points to go through. We have a group coaching that’s on the lowest
price and again, your pricing is going to matter based on what you’re
teaching whether it’s consumer, whether it’s businesses, whether there's a
return on investment, financially, that’s going to increase the price of this.
But you do have group coaching on the low end, and then you have a
coaching board, email coaching that’s a next level up because that’s private
access. And then you have the one-on-one coaching that’s your very high
end, that’s where your highest prices are as with one-on-one coach, so you
have at least three different elements in every coaching business.
So let’s go on and let’s go through this quickly. Who should be a coach and
who shouldn’t be a coach? What are the qualifications to being a coach?
So Glenn, what are some of the qualifications to being a coach?
Qualifications for a Coach

Glenn: I think we've said this already but if your primary goal is just to make money
then I think there’s better ways to make money. When I was in graduate
school, there were some people you can see it was clear, they didn’t really
read the books. They kind of dreaded their clinical internships and they just
couldn’t wait to have a cash register and put it behind the couch.
I would tell those people, "Look, you know there’s nothing wrong with
wanting to make money. You should go into a field and go try to make
money." It’s just there are easier ways to do it than taking care of people
personally.
I think you really have to have a genuine empathy and care for the client
and I probably said enough about that. I would imagine that people who
bought this product probably have that to start with so I wouldn’t have to say
too much about that.
I think that you have to, in some ways, earn the right to coach. Meaning
that you’ve gotten real results in whatever it is that you’re coaching or
maybe you haven’t gotten real results for yourself but you’ve coached
enough people through getting real results that you really know that you
know how to do it. There’s a lot of people out there that can talk a good
game. It’s going to be uncomfortable to try to do that as a coach. Put it this
way, the rubber really meets the road. Your one-on-one with people or
you’re in a group coaching with people, they’ll know if you haven’t earned
the right. So make sure you've earned the right first.
I would say you have to be willing and able to focus on your clients when it’s
show time. It’s important to be able to block out your own worries and focus
on the other person and that is a muscle by the way that develops and it’s a
very gratifying muscle to develop. There’s a term for that, we call it object
related versus narcissistic. Narcissistic is when you're just kind of internally
focused and object related is when you are focused in your clients. I think
that it’s important to be object related when you’re with your clients. I think
it’s a really big deal to be punctual if you’re having appointments with
clients.
There’s a big difference between being a minute late and a minute early.
The big difference is who waits for who because if you’re a minute late, then
the client has had the experience, maybe this person forgot about me,
maybe they’re not going to show up.
I know it sounds silly, I know you’re saying, well, it’s only a minute, but listen
to what Terry gave us, his bad experience with coaching before that the guy
wasn’t there on the phone call. You don’t want people to ever have
that feeling with you if you’re the coach. I always say, get yourself all set-up
five or 10 minutes early and make sure you’re ready and settled and eager
to talk to the person.
You need to be able to distinguish your goals from your client’s goals.
Terry, maybe you could talk a little bit about this because I know that you
have more of a lifestyle business.
Terry: Let me describe it this way. Your goals and your deadlines are not your
client’s. Your client might have different goals than you do. Your client
might have different deadlines they have for you. I always do the first
coaching session either by email or by phone asking my clients exactly what
they want to achieve. I even have that exact question in the very beginning
and that is, "What’s the number one reason you hired me to help you in your
life?" What’s the number one reason? What do you want to accomplish?
I get through quite a few questions asking them exactly what they want out
of their life and I’ll describe it this way. Since I do Internet lifestyle coaching,
there are two different viewpoints and I first heard these viewpoints back in
a book called "The Home Office From Hell", I think was the name of the
book that I first learned it from. They talked about two different types of
people. Those are growth mavens and the lifestyle guru is what they call
them, growth mavens and lifestyle gurus for building the business.
The growth mavens were those who wanted to build a large profitable
business. They wanted to employ people. They wanted to help other people
get jobs, and they always had this constant attitude that we wanted a
business to grow. If the business is not growing, they’re not happy.
Then there’s a second group of people in business which are the lifestyle
gurus. They want to help people, they want to keep it small. They don’t
have as big of an excitement about growing the business, which I actually fit
in the second category. If you told me my business would not get any larger
this year than it was last year, you know what? I’m happy with that. I’m
happy with the business that I have. I’m happy with the people that I help.
That’s where I am.
But I have clients in both categories that are both lifestyle focused and some
that are growth focused so I have to understand both mentalities when
helping my clients. I need to find out at the very beginning which one are
they, which one is most important to them. Is the fastest growth the
most important to them or if their lifestyle the most important to them. Then
we build the business out from there, based off of what their goal is.
That’s what I’m talking about here is - you need to figure out what are your
client’s goals, not your own. Be able to, again, remove yourself from the
picture and help them accomplish the goals that they have even if they
wouldn’t be the same goals that you have.
Glenn: Same thing with the deadlines, right?
Terry: Yup, it’s the same thing with the deadlines. You have to learn to be patient
and run things at their time. What I mean by that is you’ve seen other
people achieve something within two weeks. That doesn’t necessarily
mean that that’s their deadline in two weeks. Let them set the deadline, you
don’t set the deadline for them, so they tell you what they want.
You always want to hold your clients accountable but I always do it this way.
When we talk about something they’re going to do, like they’re going to write
an email or they’re going to get this website up or they’re going to get sales
copy down again on business related, they’re going to do this, I always ask
them, when will you get this finished? When will you send it over to me?
I let them do it. I never tell them when they’re going to do it. Then at that
point in time, if they don’t send it to me, I can ask them a few days later
whether this was finished. It’s funny that again brings in the accountability
of coaching. I’ve had many clients who told me that they finished it the night
before the next time they speak to me.
Glenn: Yeah, one of the benefits of having a regular coaching session is trying to
make a discreet progress every week or every two weeks.
Terry: Yes. Think about that. Again, the big point here is you’re going to help
them accomplish their goals, not your own.
Glenn: I think it’s also critical that you've had at least some coaching of your own so
that you know what it’s like on the other side. I kind of think you should
have had two or three coaching experiences so you know the difference
between good coaching and bad coaching. You can kind of discern what
you want to emulate and what you want to avoid. I think if you hear our
stories that most of us have had that experience.
I think it’s important that you’re someone who can tolerate ambiguity and
confusion. When I first started, I thought that I had to be a grand wizard and
I had to always have the answer for what people ask me. And then I
realized that it’s good if I have the answer and I certainly will give it to them
if I do have the answer and I think that they’re open to hearing it but more
often, what they really need are the right set of questions and someone to
keep them company through ambiguity and confusion and chaos until the
right answer emerges.
Terry: Llet’s throw these in here because there’s some viewpoints of coaching that
believe that you should never give them direction or give them the solution.
What do you feel about that Glenn?
Glenn: I think those are really annoying, I really do. It’s like that old joke about the
psychologist who was a Rogerian psychologist. He was taught to just reflect
whatever the client says. So a client comes in and he says, "Doc, I'm really
feeling like killing myself." And the Rogerian says, "So you’re feeling
suicidal?" And he says, "Yeah, I really kind of feel like walking over to the
window and just jumping right out now." He says, "So you’re feeling very
suicidal and you’re feeling like you might want to actually do it now?"
And the guy gets up and he goes and he jumps out the window and the
Rogerian looks down and sees the guy lying on the ground and he goes
"splat". Well, that’s a joke. It’s not really a joke.
I think people pay you for more than just reflection and frustration tolerance.
I think they are paying for your knowledge and experience. I think you owe
it to give it to them in the best way that will move them forward.
Now that doesn’t change the fact that you can’t solve people’s problems
before you figure out why they might like having them and there are often
reasons underlying their problems that you’re not aware of until you hear the
whole story. But I always tell people when they’re worried if I’m quiet…. I
said, "Listen, I’m not one of those people that just sits back quietly and ask
questions. I got a big mouth and you’re going to hear from me as soon as I
know what the answer is."
David: I’ve been on the other side of never getting straight answers. You ask for
various things and everything is different. “I don’t know it could be different
for you” and I’ve gotten that and it’s so annoying. Part of the thing of paying
for a coach really is to get straight answers and get them quick and not have
to figure it all out the hard way with all these learning lessons. So you
decide your own philosophy I should say, when you set up your program
and I think it should be practical.
Glenn: Quite frankly, I think a lot of coaches take that ambiguous position or that
like blank slate position because they’re frightened of being held
accountable. You told me this was the answer and I did this and I lost
$48,000 and I think you need to be careful. I think you can’t tell people
things that you don’t know what the answer is. I think that you need to have
disclaimers when people sign up for your coaching that will protect you.
I think you need to take notes and keep a chart that talk about what’s the
client’s goals and what are you doing to help them reach their goals. Every
time you have an appointment with them, I think that you should write a
couple of sentences about what transpired and how you tried to help them.
I think you should always phrase your recommendations with the level of
certainty that you actually have regarding them.
But nobody is going to pay you to just sit back and reflect to them and say,
"Well, I don’t know. It’s different for everyone, what do you think?" They’re
not going to stay with you for that and they shouldn’t.
David: I think you actually brought up a good point, maybe this is not their right
area but, you should have notes on your clients. You should know what’s
going on. You should have a clue, and I know a lot of coaches don’t. A lot
of these biz opp ones that I’ve seen, they don’t. The ones that I've had,
didn’t, they weren’t good. The people who do well like Terry has a clue.
You can always talk to Terry and you know he knows what’s going on with
the people who are in his coaching program, same thing with Glenn. But
I've talked to other people that they have no idea what’s going on.
Glenn: You know the other benefit of the chart is that, in addition to protecting you
legally, covering your ass, when you look at the chart over time, there are
patterns that emerge that don’t emerge in an individual session or an
individual post. That’s one of the ways that you can decipher what the
emotional patterns are versus the actual progress towards the goal that the
person is trying to make. You will definitely see things on a broad
perspective when you look at your notes over the course of six months or a
year that you’ll never see if you’re just looking at the individual ppointments.
When you start to have lots of clients - I actually keep my coaching practice
relatively small right now. There was a time when I was both a psychologist
and a coach and I had 65 clients and I’ve got to tell you my head was
spinning. If I saw 10 or 12 even 14 people a day, my head would be
spinning. I used the notes as my anchor to go back and say, "Well, what’s
going on with this client and what are they trying to accomplish and what’s
their major obstacle and how do they get in their own way." I will just have
that all laid out for me and in the five minutes between the session, I could
get myself reoriented and I could even take notes about the mistakes that I
made before and how to avoid that again. Notes are important.
David: I process a lot of people, because the nature of our coupon or certificates
and stuff. I just do it all with folders and I write notes and I put it in folders. I
alphabetized them and that’s worked great for me for years.
Glenn: I have one Word Document for each client. On the coaching board, I use
the coaching board itself as the notes and then I periodically journal about a
client if I’m having trouble moving them forward. I’ve always used a one
Word Document and that document outlines the presenting problem, what
the client’s goals were. I write a little progress note with two or three
sentences that says where they are each time I met with them and what we
talked about and what intervention I suggested.
David: I just want to add one more thing. All these sound like a big pain, but this
type of stuff is what gets people to renew and why people like Terry and
you, Glenn that have people renewing a lot. Dan, you had a lot of
experiences with people who didn’t show up, didn’t know what was going on
with you. I’ve had that, we’ve all had that and that’s annoying. Is it worth it
to like take notes and keep track of people? Yes, especially when people
are paying several thousand dollars a year.
Glenn: It can be the difference between a $200 client and a $20,000 client. You
look at the long term. If we move beyond the notes, I think that if you want
to be a coach that you need to be willing to tell people the truth even and
especially if it means you might lose them. I find that with every client, there
comes a point where you just don’t want to tell them something because
you know they don’t want to hear it. You have to figure out a way to tell
them anyway and risk losing them.
Telling the Truth – Even When It’s Painful

Terry: Because of my process of trying to weed out the people that shouldn’t be in
the program, I try to make one of those the first month for everybody. I look
for one of those the first month for everybody. Because if it’s going to be a
long term relationship, I want to make sure from the very beginning that
we’re going to be going at a direction that works for them.
Again, in my business, a lot of it is because people come in with wrong

expectations. They come in thinking that they’re going to make a million
dollars online this year when they’re just getting started or that things are so
much easier than they really are. I specifically look for one of those
situations where we can be very direct, very honest about their goals right
off the bat, somewhere in the first couple of sessions.
Glenn: It’s kind of like having to pass that really hard physical training test to
become a cop, right Dan?
Dan: That’s a good analogy I guess, trial by fire right from the beginning. Now I
have to be completely transparent although I seem to have gotten a
reputation of being somewhat of a hard ass. My true personality is not that
way.
In print, once you get to know me in person I’m not. I struggle with this, I do
not like being the guy that when somebody talks to me or hires me for
coaching or wants to hire me for some sort of consulting or writing copy. I
hate being the guy that has to burst their bubble or as soon as they hear
from me they cringe, but ethically I have to.
A lot of people, because they need the income, that stroke their ego and
they take their money and they do their gig. But what I’ve discovered
especially when it’s come to copywriting or consulting, what they want me to
do is, here’s my police analogy, they've just been shot with a 45 in the chest
and they’ve got this huge sucking chest wound. They’re going to die and
that’s my diagnosis. Dude, you’re going to die. No, no, no, I didn’t come to
you for that. I came to you because I want you to put a Band-aid on this.
Glenn: Right.
Dan: My diagnosis is I refuse to do that, you’re going to die. We got to fix your
sucking chest wound first and then we can fix the other problem. No, I just
want you to put the Band-Aid on it. No, they’ve got this big bucket with a
hole in the bottom. There’s no bottom and they keep pouring water into it.
But they read that I’ve had a lot of success in copywriting so now they’re
going to hire me and I’m their rain maker and I’m going to perform a miracle.
I can pour water in their buckets so quickly that even though it has no
bottom, it’s not going to run out anymore.
And there are plenty of guys who will take their money and put a Band-Aid
on those sucking chest wound or take their money and start pouring water
in their bucket. I just simply can’t do that and it pains me to be the guy to
tell them that "Dude, the entire process is really screwed up. So before we
start messing with doing all the stuff you want to do, we got to fix your
process."
Unfortunately, when you’re a coach you’re forced to do those kinds of

things. I mean if you’ve got any ethics obviously, tell the guy your business
sucks and we got to fix this.
David: Kind of know what it says, but I like being the bearer of bad news because
that’s what I do in my field. Everybody is coming in me with unrealistic
things and I’m the guy that likes to tell you, "It’s not going to be that way.
We’re not going to let John roam the street off medication and hope for the
best, that’s not going to work."
So, I look at it this way and you know what? This is what my suggestion is to
the coaches, to people who are going to do coaches. You just have to
really get in your head, you know what, if you don’t tell people, if you
sugarcoat it, if you don’t want to hurt their feelings, it’s just extending the
misery for them or how long it’s going to take them to reach their goals.
I know personally I would have rather have known things right away sooner
rather than later as Colin Powell’s always said and I think that’s what you
have to remember. In this type of coaching, you got to tell people right
away. I personally believe -- I don’t know how you guys feel about this, but
in my field, I really have to deliver a lot of bad news and tell people they’re
unrealistic and you need to stop rambling.
No one wants to hear your sad story 50 times like you've told the same
thing over and over. No one cares, doesn’t matter. Your story is like 25
other million people’s story. I have to tell them that. And you know what? I
don’t lose people when I say that - I really don’t, like I’m pretty shock that I
don’t, but I understand why.
Glenn: Well, I think because it’s more like a doctor giving people a real shot as
opposed to someone being cruel or sadistic for the sake of enjoying being
cruel or sadistic.
David: Right, exactly.
Glenn: They feel relieved. I find that people feel relieved when you tell them these
things. But there is an art to doing it and the first couple of times are
difficult.
David: I completely agree.
Terry: Yes. So as coaches, we have to give people the bad news sometimes.
David: I’ll add in one thing too. We’re talking about how to market coaching
programs. Do yourself a favor, go to Amazon. There are a couple of books
on how to listen, how to be a good coach. Not, how to have a coaching
business. Not, how to make money with coaching. But you know, it
involves listening, empathy, being organized, presenting to people. Pick up
two of those books.
I’m astounded I’ve talked to people who are doing coaching and they’re just
not good coaches. They’re just not good teachers. Like one thing, Terry is
a great teacher. He’s a fantastic teacher. Glenn is a good teacher. But
there are certain people that need to work on that. So you should consider.
You’ve listened to all these points, these suggestions, but if you’re not a
good listener, pick up a book on listening. There are plenty of them, you
can go to Amazon and get it. Would you guys agree with that?
Make Money As a Coach

Terry: Yes, I agree. On module four, we’re going to be covering some of the skills
for helping clients though. Not at any point in time will we tell people they
shouldn’t get additional materials to train though. But we are going to cover
some of those skills in module four where Glenn is going to give us some of
his background and experience and I’ll chime in. We’ll give you some of the
tools for coaching in that module. But first, we have to get you set up and
have you in place and give you the systems that we want you to use for
coaching.
What we’ve really covered throughout this module, we want to give you a
good overview of coaching altogether. We want you to see part of the
systems that we’re going to talk about and we’re going to keep lining it up as
you go through the different modules.
What I really want you to walk away from this first session is that coaching is
something that you can do even if your business isn’t very large yet, even if
you have a small list, you can get started in coaching. That’s another
beauty here is somebody who's writing and saying, for example selling a
book, you have to have a massive list to have a good business selling a
book. When you’re selling coaching, I know people right now who have a
list of 500 to 1000 people who have a good full time income from that list of
500 to 1000 people because coaching is part of their business model. You
can get by with a much smaller list. I’m not going to say that’s where you
should stay, but I’m saying that you could earn a good income from
coaching if there is a very targeted list, even with a small list. You can make
money with coaching.
There are some backgrounds you need to know. We will cover the one-on-
one phone model. We’re going to cover the coaching board email type of
model. We’re going to cover group coaching. We’re going to show you how
to set up systems and draw many more clients into your funnel than you
would by the old coaching models other people talk about.
We’re not covering the mastermind group even though that’s a viable model
of your business, because you have to have a large list for mastermind
coaching. In many cases, that requires you to also be doing seminars or
have a phone team following up to sell this, that’s why we’re not covering it
in this course. It’s not duplicatable for you and your model. We want you to
be able to copy our systems and what we’re going to be sharing through
here will work for your niche, it’ll work for your market. You’re going to see
as we go forward into the other modules just how well it can work for you.
Some of the things that we’re going to be teaching or we’re going to be

talking about in the next session is how to find your perfect client, how to
really get centered on the clients you want, how to define them. Let me give
you a hint, it’s not everybody, everybody is not your coaching client. We’re
going to get into that.
Then we’re going to talk about putting together your system which basically
is your deliverable, what is it that you deliver. It’s not just one-on-one time
with me, there’s something that you’re going to deliver. We’re going to
show you how to put together that system. We’re going to get into the skills
in module four, some of the coaching skills. And then we’re going to move
forward into aspects such as price in your coaching and some of the
marketing aspects of your coaching and what you need to make good sales
of your coaching.
We’re going to cover all these different aspects as we go through the

program. Anything else that anyone wants to add to this?
Glenn: I think you did a good job.
Terry: Okay. Well, then we’ll see you on the next module.

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Module'1'–'Secrets'of'Six'and'Seven'Figure'Coaching'Programs'

Secrets of Six and

Million Dollar Coaching

Printed in the United States of America. All rights

This publication is designed to provide general information

HOW TO BUILD YOUR COACHING PRACTICE

Throughout this program, we’re going to be sharing how to do coaching no

Dan: That is a million dollar tip right there.

So whether you’re someone who’s considering adding coaching to your

Glenn: It keeps you in touch with the market, right?

Now there’s an incentive to buy my advanced program, it comes with

Glenn: Thanks, David.

I am a copywriter… but a serial entrepreneur first, a copywriter second. I

David Deutsch, a rather well known and extremely successful copywriter

Glenn: Thanks, Dan. Okay, Terry, back to you.

Terry: Back to me.

Why Should You Start Coaching?

What’s happening is you’re seeing general information product is beginning

Glenn: Got you. Agreed.

Glenn: It makes sense.

Terry: You do.

What Clients Bring Into Your Life

Terry: What have clients brought to your life?

On a more practical level, I coach people through marketing processes now.

There’s a company called Practice Pay Solutions. They’re a merchant

Terry: Because of technology and everything being automated, everybody is

Glenn: Well said. Much better said, Terry.

Dan: Gee, aren’t I smart?

Terry: Gee, aren’t I smart? Why can’t I think of this on my own?

Glenn: I've had that experience too.

Glenn: That’s a good point.

Personal Experiences in Coaching

Terry: Pretty much.

If I didn’t have someone who I, a) believed was making a million dollars a

to be extraordinarily professional on everything that I did. I was kind of

Terry: So you didn’t get slapped?

Which Coaching Model is Right For You?

research, but some of my best market research is actually these one-on-one

Does that make sense, Terry?

lot of people think of email as something they send quick. So it takes a

Glenn: A lack of planning in your part doesn’t constitute an emergency in my part.

Glenn: That’s great. That’s a great idea.

Terry: That is a great idea.

Glenn: I’m going to steal that.

David: Yeah, it is great.

Terry: I’m going to steal it also.

David: We really do stress because this is something that we teach in coaching

Mastermind Groups Don’t Fit All Markets

When we talk about mastermind groups in coaching, generally, they are

David: Terry, can I jump in?

Glenn: That’s a good point.

Glenn: Dollars for hours?

Glenn: You can justify it on a return of investment argument.

David: Yes. That's exactly it.

Glenn: That's a good point.

David: Oh, I see.

There's one woman rather famous, her coaching program is $100,000 a

For whatever reason client incompetence - mostly client incompetence or

Additional Coaching Models

Glenn: I got sucked into one of those.

Terry: How did you get suckered into that?

David, you were going to say something?

Let's go to another model of coaching, and that's group coaching, which I