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Question Asked 30th Jul, 2019

Ozcan Zenger
Ankara University
How could I nd Kp,Ki,Kd from transfer function?
Hi everyone,I want to design a motor(transfer
function) which opens in 4 and 10 seconds.I have
transfer function which is 5/(s^2+18*s+1).My
supervisor said me rstly you should transform
step signal to ramp for input(Probably this provide
to open motors in 4 or 10 seconds) After that you
should nd Kp,Ki and Kd.I have transfer function
but i dont know how can i nd this parameters and
also how could i arrange to opening motor in 4 or
10 seconds? Is there anyone who can help me?
Sorry for my English.

With my best regards.

Motor English Simulink PID Control

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Most recent answer

K V Thulasi Ram 3rd Oct, 2019

Central Mechanical
Engineering Research Institute
Kp and Ki can be found by following methods

1. Trial and Error Method

Set integral and derivative terms to zero rst and

then increase the proportional gain until the
output of the control loop oscillates at a
constant rate. This increase of proportional gain
should be in such that response the system
becomes faster provided it should not make the
system unstable.
Once the P-response is fast enough, set the
integral term, so that the oscillations will be
gradually reduced. Change this I-value until the
steady-state error is reduced, but it may increase
overshoot.
Once P and I parameters have been set to the
desired values with minimal steady-state error,
increase the derivative gain until the system
reacts quickly to its set point. Increasing the
derivative term decreases the overshoot of the
controller response.

2. Zeigler-Nichols Method

a)method 1

Obtain a unit step response of the plant

experimentally and it may look‘s’ shaped curve
as shown in the gure below. This method
applies, if obtained response exhibit s-shaped
curve for unit step input otherwise it cannot be
 applied. This curve can also be obtained by
dynamic simulation of the plant.

b)method 2

it is very similar to the trial and error method

where integral and derivative terms are set to the
zero, i.e., making Ti in nity and Td zero.
Increase the proportional gain such that the
output exhibits sustained oscillations. If the
system does not produce sustained oscillations
then this method cannot be applied. The gain at
which sustained oscillations produced is called
as critical gain

please Ref the image for tuning Kp and Ki

 pituning method1.JPG · 57.49 KB
 method2.JPG · 44.20 KB
Cite 1 Recommendation

Popular Answers (1)

Asma Meddeb 2nd Aug, 2019

ENSIT Tunisie

You can use the Matlab program that will help you
obtaining the parameters of the PID. It's the
simplest way !

Cite 8 Recommendations

All Answers (10)

 Ozcan Zenger 30th Jul, 2019
Ankara University

I design this blocks still i dont know how can i

generate step input to ramp input and how can i
arrange to opening motor in 4 or 10 seconds.

 20190730_104747.jpg · 5.06 MB
Cite 1 Recommendation
Mohamed-Mourad 30th Jul, 2019
La
Badji Mokhtar - Annaba University
Dear Uzcan Zenger,

In fact there are classic methods such as the

Ziegler Nichols method to determine the gain of
the PID controller, however the simplest way is the
use of Matlab providing "pidtool" which
automatically chooses the optimal Kp Ki Kd PID
gains, which makes testing and error unnecessary.
Also you can access the tuning algorithm directly
using "pidtune" or through the graphical user using
"pidtool".

For more details and information about this

subject, i suggest you to see links and attached le
on topic.

PID ... - Control Tutorials for MATLAB and Simulink

- Introduction

ctms.engin.umich.edu/CTMS/index.php?
example=Introduction...

Determination of PID controller parameters from

step response ...

www.12000.org/my_notes/PID_ode/index.pdf

Best regards
  CHAPTER 10. PID CONTROL.pdf · 251.53 KB
Cite 2 Recommendations
Aissa Kheldoun 30th Jul, 2019
University M'Hamed
Bougara of Boumerdes
Dear Zenger,

If I have well understood you main concern is the

design of PID for you motor control. Here below
you will nd (a copy of the program is attached to
the message) a Matlab program that will help you
obtaining the parameters of the PID. Just copy and
paste in your matlab editor then run it to get the
PID parameters. Actually the program will give two
different PID controllers and you can choose the
one that ts your desired performances. The
second PID provides faster response than the rst
one.

regards .

clc;

clear; % here is your system 5/(s^2+18s+1)

num=[0 5];%

den=[1 18 1];% poles: P1=-17.9443, P2=-0.0557

G=tf(num,den);% poles are negative that's your

system is stable

[C_PID, info]=pidtune(G,'PIDF');

info

% the previous instruction gives the PID parameters

and the chosen open-loop crossover

% frequency

%you can test your PID using the step response as

follows:

T_PID=feedback(C_PID*G,1);

hold on

step(T_PID);

% the previous PID has crossover frequency of

0.0985 rad/s

% if you want a faster response, you have to

change the open-loop crossover

% frequency, for example

[C_PID_fast, info]=pidtune(G,'PIDF',1.0);

TI_PD_fast=feedback(C_PID_fast*G,1);

hold on

step(T_PID_fast);

 PID_Design.m · 665 B
Cite 2 Recommendations
Yew-Chung Chak 30th Jul, 2019
Politecnico di Torino

Hi Ozcan Zenger,

Covey's Habit #2: Begin With the End in Mind. This

provides an alternative theoretical approach for the
control design.

The plant's transfer function is given by Gp = 5/(s2

+ 18*s + 1). The plant is already stable but very
slow (due to 1 << 18). To reach the steady-state at
4 sec, a P-only controller can be considered to
achieve the desired closed-loop transfer function,
Gcl = 5·Kp/(s2 + 18*s + 5·Kp + 1) = 18/(s2 + 18*s +
19).

On the problem formulation, you need design a

controller Gc and place it in the loop, such that Gcl
is obtained. In short, you need to nd out how to
get from Gp to Gcl.

Comparing and solving the characteristic equation

give Kp = 3.6. Note that the design will give a
steady-state error of 1/19. As an exercise, try
designing a controller that gives Gcl = 2.25/(s2 +
3*s + 2.25). No steady-state error and no
overshoot.

 plot.PNG · 19.24 KB
Cite 2 Recommendations
 Yew-Chung Chak 31st Jul, 2019
Politecnico di Torino

Hi Ozcan Zenger,

If the desired settling time is 10 sec, using the P-

only controller will result in a larger steady-state
error. Hence, a PI controller maybe considered. If
so, then the closed-loop transfer function becomes

Gcl = 5*(Kp·s + Ki)/[s3 + 18·s2 + (5·Kp + 1)·s + 5·Ki]

Since the order of denominator is 3 and the

coe cient of s2 cannot be manipulated, you can try
to make the coe cients of the polynomial as
"balanced" as possible. Balanced in this context
means that the coe cients of s2 and s1 should be
as close as possible and coe cient of s0 should be
approximately one-third of the coe cient of s1,
(because Gcl is a 3rd-order system).

One good candidate is s3 + 18·s2 + 18·s + 6.

Solving the simultaneous equations yields Kp =
17/5 and Ki = 6/5. The following m-code plots the
step response. Luckily, it turns out that the
response settles around 10 sec and the overshoot
is relatively acceptable.

s = tf('s');

Gp = 5/(s^2 + 18*s + 1)

kp = 17/5; ki = 6/5;

Gc = kp + ki/s

Gcl = Gp*Gc/(1 + Gp*Gc);

Gcl = minreal(Gcl)

step(Gcl, 20)

 plot.PNG · 19.73 KB
Cite 1 Recommendation
Wasim Ghder Soliman 1st Aug, 2019
Andhra University -
College of Engineering / Tartous University
- Faculty of Technical Engineering
Since you have a known plant model i.e. the T.F, so
you can tune the controller easly. However one
easy way is to use auto tuning option from the PID
block which gives you the parameters values, also
you can use traditional or optimal methods for
more accuracy...

Cite 1 Recommendation
Asma Meddeb 2nd Aug, 2019
ENSIT Tunisie

You can use the Matlab program that will help you
obtaining the parameters of the PID. It's the
simplest way !

Cite 8 Recommendations
Ravinder Kumar 17th Aug, 2019
Birla Institute of
Technology and Science Pilani
http://ctms.engin.umich.edu/CTMS/index.php?
example=Introduction&section=ControlPID

Cite 2 Recommendations
Kartik Sharma 18th Aug, 2019
Rajasthan Technical
University
The PID controller block you use before the plant
transfer function have auto tuning option to nd the
PID controller parameters. And you can manually
set your desired response in PID tuner which
changes the values of Kp, Ki and Kd accordingly.

Cite 1 Recommendation

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