Air Date: 11/6/20

The Root Presents: It’s Lit!

Ep. 7 - How Marley Dias Gets It Done
Danielle ​Welcome to It's Lit, where all things literary live at The Root. I'm Danielle Belton,
the editor in chief, here with the managing editor of The Glow Up, Maiysha Kai.

Maiysha ​Hey, y'all.

Danielle ​Maiysha, today we're speaking with our youngest guest yet on It's Lit, but she's
definitely more accomplished than a lot of people twice her age and is doing some
seriously amazing things. So we just had to talk to her. Our guest today is Marley Dias,
activist and creator behind the 1000 Black Girl Books and author of Marley Dias Gets It
Done and So Can You. Marley is also adding TV show host to her resume as well as she
is now host of the new Netflix series Bookmarks Celebrating Black Voices.

Maiysha ​I mean, this young woman has done more and it's wild to say she's a young
woman because I feel like Marley has actually grown up before our eyes. She's 15 now
and she's done more in her 15 years than I think I've done in the last 15. So, you know, I
am so impressed with her and she's so poised and aware and just I mean, what an
incredible person to talk to right now. I think at a time when we really need that kind of
inspiration for the future, right?

Danielle ​Oh, of course. She reminded me a bit of myself at that age, you know.

Maiysha ​Did she now?

Danielle ​So poised and mature, you know, and intelligent. I was just like, yes, it was like
looking into a Black girl mirror. I loved it. She's so amazing. Of course, you know, the book
that I wrote at 13 was trash. So we don't have that in common. Like she definitely,
definitely wrote a book that people wanted to read. It was worth publishing. I'm sad to say
that that was not the case with me, but let's, you know, forget all that.

Maiysha ​Well, look at 13. I was just beginning to write songs, so there you go. I mean, you
know, I never wrote anything that was over three minutes. But I see no reason to delay
any further with our teenage angst. Let's get to the interview with Marley.

Danielle ​Awesome.

Danielle ​Hi, Marlee.

Marley Dias ​Hi! How are you guys?

Danielle ​I'm excellent.

Marley Dias ​Nice to see you know, even if virtually, but.

Maiysha ​Yes, you, too.

Danielle ​So welcome to It's Lit, so far...

Marley Dias ​Thank you for having me.

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Danielle ​So far, you are our youngest guest ever on It's Lit.

Marley Dias ​I'm not surprised.

Maiysha ​THat's saying a lot.

Marley Dias ​I find myself hearing that statement often.

Maiysha ​Well, it's kind of a joke because we just launched. So.

Danielle ​I would say you're the record holder for right now.

Marley Dias ​I'm proud to be. Where's my trophy?

Danielle ​So since you're the creator of a thousand black books, we think you might be
also one of our most well-read guests.

Maiysha ​It could happen.

Danielle ​And we typically like to start each episode by asking all of our guests to name at
least one book that has been life-changing for them. So has there been one book or
maybe a series of books that has been especially meaningful to you?

Marley Dias ​Well, I couldn't say life-changing only because my life has been very short so
far. But I would say that Brown Girl Dreaming by Jacqueline Woodson is my favorite book
I've ever read, and one of the books that I think I relate to the most.

Danielle ​Amazing.

Maiysha ​I love that. I love that Jacqueline Woodson needs to be one of my neighbors. So
I love that so much.

Danielle ​So in twenty nineteen, we, at The Root of honored you as one of our young
futurists.

Marley Dias ​Thank you. I appreciate it.

Danielle ​Oh, no problem. Because we knew that you were destined for even bigger things.
And this year you launched the Netflix series Bookmarks Creating Black Voices, recruiting
some of our favorite stars to read Black children's books. How did that project come
about?

Marley Dias ​So the project came about really through two things. So in my head, I always
knew that I wanted to translate some of the ideas I had about representation into like a
television show or YouTube channel or a Patreon. And I knew that there was another level
as to what I wanted to do, but I wasn't sure exactly how that was going to happen. And
because, you know, I'm not a professional actor and I didn't ever, I never planned on being
a real um, in the arts in that way. I knew that it was going to be a hosting opportunity or a
talk that I published. And I thought about it for a long time. And there wasn't really an
opportunity on the table for that just yet. But then my mom talked to me about it and she
told me that there was there was a big, big project that was coming my way and that
Netflix was interested in having me be a part of not only the conception of the project, but

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also as someone that is a part of the project, as an actor and as a reader. So I knew that
they wanted my help originally to figure out what books were needed, how we were going
to tell the stories and who was going to be involved. But it also translated into me being the
fun host and getting to be the face that kids recognize when they watch the show.

Danielle ​Oh that's amazing. And what's the process like in choosing what books to
feature?

Marley Dias ​So we actually worked alongside a really, really cool academic, Dr. Kevin
Clark, who studies both diversity and inclusion and education for—especially Black kids.
So he was able to come up with a curriculum. So originally in the first meeting I had with
my director and showrunners and everyone, we had a curriculum first and it wasn't
necessarily a script or lines or anything else. We knew that we wanted to be a learning
kind of model. That was the show was based around and it was super important to do that.
So when it came to selecting books, we focused on books that had messages of identity,
respect, justice and action. And with the order of the series, in order of the episode, to also
kind of follow that. So it starts off with a book, I Love My Hair read by Tiffany Haddish, and
that's about identity and loving who you are. And it ends with my book, We March. Well,
not my book. With the book I read, We March by Shane Evans, which is right back there,
which is about taking action and protesting. So it was super important that we were, we
had a plan as to what the books needed to represent and show beyond just like a fun
character, a beautiful bright imagery, but also making sure that there were lessons and
that the lessons made sense in the order that you would watch the episodes.

Maiysha ​You know, I have to say, I have a five-year-old niece and a seven-year-old
nephew, and they love books and they love the show. So I'm going to thank you for doing
that. And you also published your own book in twenty-eighteen, Marley Dias Gets It Done
and So Can You. And so, you know, when you wrote that book and I love this part, you
said that it imagined a world where Black girls were free to be complicated, honest,
human, to have adventures and emotions unique just to them. A world where Black girls
stories mattered. And I write about Black girls and Black women stories for The Root. And
I think we're still trying to fight to be complicated and honest. So can you tell us a little bit
about that process of writing a book and if you have interest in writing another?

Marley Dias ​So when it came to writing Marley Dias Gets It Done and So Can You. It was
a difficult process because I had never kept a secret from my friends before about
anything. And I didn't really think...I didn't really know what anyone was going to expect.
But it was really important for me because a lot of kids ask and want to talk to me about
what are the everyday steps, what can I do? Like, I have a really bright idea, but I don't
think anyone will care about it. So it was important for me to get kind of some of my
thoughts and ideas. But it's obviously not a memoir because there is only so much of the
13-year-old can tell you about life experiences and challenges. So, you know, the places
that I, I lack experience with sometimes, you know, facing certain issues that adults face,
that kids don't and dealing with people and in new environments that I haven't been
exposed to yet, I try to make up for it with facts about history and about books that I love to
read and sharing my favorite foods and what I like to wear and my family. So it was
important for me to not only talk about my own experience, but to understand that I'm still
not the perfect answer. I'm not the Jedi master of activism and youth activism. So there's
parts of it that are specifically saying that I've experienced success in these ways for doing
these things. And I believe that they can help you, but also that I don't know everything.
And I've had struggles trying to figure out what messages I want to send and kind of who I
want to be as a teenager and as an activist.

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Maiysha ​I mean, I love your sense of self-awareness, you know, because I do think, you
know, so early on, we are you know, we're often we were talking about this earlier among
ourselves. You know, we have an issue with Black children not being allowed to just be
kids. Right. Like you're not allowed to just be a girl or be a boy. And, you know, there's all
this, like, kind of imposed adulthood on you. So I love hearing you say things like, yeah,
well, you know, my life experience is limited. I'm still learning, you know. But is there one
big piece of advice that you would give to young people like you who want to make a big
impact on their community or their world in the way that you have?

Marley Dias ​I think a piece of advice I would give is to understand that you cannot do
anything alone. I think a lot of times, because I do the interviews by myself and I solely
kind of represent one thousand Black Girl Books because it's my idea and came from my
own personal frustration. It's all with my mom. Like, I can't do this without our mom at all. I
don't think there's a day I have gone of any success or work with the campaign that hasn't
been related to her. And I always shout her out, you know, my dad's there, too. He's there.
He gets to drive me, helps me around. You know does what he can. But he wasn't really
raised on a framework that kids were able to make change. It wasn't just physical things
that could change the world, but actually, you know, I like researching and kind of more
intellectual things. So he's grown and transitioned into that. But my mom is a sociologist
and she's a professor and she's watched kids kind of have to use their own frustrations
and solution—and create solutions from that. So I always want to encourage the kids that
although it might seem like you are alone in your frustrations and problems, we know
through social media, we know through the Internet, and we know just through going about
life that we are not alone and we can't act alone in things that are difficult.

Ad ​Hey, Brian, did you know the world sucks right now? Yeah, I had kind of noticed that
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new podcast that's going to fix it. So I guess we should introduce ourselves. My name is
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really worth hearing and learning about. I mean, we've seen a lot of systemic failures
across the country and around the world. The epidemic has really highlighted them, but
they've been there all along and we thought there has to be a better way to do things.
There has to be from the disastrous food supply chain, as you witnessed really early on in
the pandemic to the absolutely shoddy Internet that we also saw early on and are seeing a
lot more of right now as everybody returns to school. We're going to be diving into the
systems that are failing us across the board. And more importantly than examining the
things that are failing. We're actually going to talk about what we can do to fix them. That's
the whole System Reboot idea. Yeah, positivity, man. Yeah, it's kind of what we're going to
try this out and see how it goes. But you know, what we're going to be doing is talking to
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So if you don't want to believe that the world is going to end in 2020 and you want to hold
on to just a little bit of hope, please check us out and join us in our quest to fix what's
broken.

Danielle ​So, Marley, what sort of changes in the literary world or even on social media
have you observed since starting a Thousand Black Girl Books?

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Marley Dias ​I think one thing I really noticed is the super valiant effort of teachers to do
better. I think they understand that they have a lot of responsibility. And I tried to make it
especially more clear now that even before virtual learning, but still now that teachers,
sometimes kids spend more time with teachers than they do their own parents because of
the situation that their parents are in, whether it's economically or because of their work or
lifestyle or anything like that. So it's super important that the ideas that we instill in our kids
are important and are neutral and still critical and talk about ethics and truth, but are also,
you know, sometimes personal in sharing who we fully are with other people. So I know
they have a tough job and I can't really blame them for when it gets difficult and hard,
especially with e-learning. But I try to be a resource for them. And that's actually one of the
things that we did with Bookmarks, is by putting it on YouTube. So every episode is
available on YouTube for free and you can watch the other show without having to use a
personal subscription. So it's really been, you know, me giving back to them as they give
to me with everything I can do to be a support for them.

Danielle ​Oh, that's amazing. And the world has really gotten a lot more complicated since
you wrote your own book and since launching A Thousand Black Girl Books in 2015. It
might be easy for some to forget that you're still only 15. Like, like I keep forgetting about.
You are so well-spoken and mature and—.

Maiysha ​So poised.

Danielle ​So poised! And you are 15. How have you been adapting to our new normal?
Our new pandemic stuck-in-the-house normal? And what does that mean for you in terms
of school?

Marley Dias ​Well, it's been very difficult for me and I don't really think it's been easy for
anybody. Like, I I'm OK with not being around my friends as much and things like that,
because I've had to have experiences like that before with work and kind of like feeling
and sitting in loneliness and things like that. But I also think this is like a new level, like it's
not the same as it was before. And and and I've been trying to cope with that through like I
got, we adopted a dog in March and I learned all these new skills, like I can solve a
Rubik's Cube, I can knit, I can make videos. Yeah, I'm pretty good at the Rubik's Cube,
too. I can do it in, like in like 50 seconds or something like that. I'm getting clean, but I've
been trying my best to do things that bring me joy and make me, and make me proud of
myself, especially because what I do right now is like it's tiring, you know, I know that I and
especially because I don't have to travel, there's a lot less buffering time. So I can do like
five interviews in a day instead of what if I was physically going somewhere, it would be
two or one because I have to get ready, get dressed, travel, be there and then leave and
go to another place. But now things can be stacked. There's a lot more opportunity. A lot
of people want to talk to me more, which is good. But it also means that, you know, I have
to do my makeup and my hair. I got my nails done, which I'm so happy about. But, you
know, things like that have to happen. So it definitely makes me tired. But I'm excited for
school. I really, really am, because here's how I feel about school. I like school, but I like
learning more than I like school. So when I go to school and I don't feel like I'm learning
anything and I don't get to see my friends, then I know I'm going to get really tired of it and
I'm going to want to you know, just head out. But I can't. So I think for me, I really I'm
impressed by what my teachers have done and how they've adapted, but I can really hope
that it'll be less performance-based, especially given the amount of stressors that are on
students and teachers right now, because a lot of students lose appeal in school because
they feel like reading is being used as a punishment. And if they aren't good at something,
it means they will never be good at something. And it really, really can create toxic

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environments a lot of the times unintentionally, but it can be bad for kids. So we want to
make sure that learning is something that's emphasized. And I hope that my teachers can
do that because I'm a student, too.

Danielle ​And at 15, you're already a role model and you've also worked with a lot of
powerful people. At this point, I'm a mentor to a young woman, and as a mentor, I know
how important it is to have feedback and guidance, especially when you have a platform
as large as yours already is. Other than your amazing mother, who would you consider a
mentor in your life?

Marley Dias ​I honestly, I'm not too sure.

Maiysha ​I mean, you have time.

Marley Dias ​My mom, we really like we spent a lot of time together. And I think that she's
definitely guided me to always, always care about the truth and to choose being happy
over being right. Like she always emphasizes that point to me, especially when we get into
disagreements about things that sometimes I have to choose to be happy over choosing to
be right. And I think that's a tough decision that a lot of Black people especially have to
face. And it's not to say that we need to dim our light or refuse to be ourselves in tough
situations, but to also understand that sometimes there are moments where it's easier to
feel free than it is to feel like you proved something. So I try my best to my mom is really
set that example for me. And I haven't really felt like I needed that many other mentors, but
I wish I had more. And I think, you know, there are some people that I definitely look up to
online, like there—What's her name? What's her name? Let me find her name. I'm going to
go on Instagram.

Maiysha ​OK.

Marley Dias ​So I think Matthew, I think Matthew Cherry, who does Hair Love, is someone
that I really, really look up to because he was able to take his Kickstarter idea, make it into
a book, and now is trying to make it into a series. So I admire people like that who have
really started to pull something super small and a frustration they had in their own lives
and developed it. There's a woman named Briana King who's a skateboarder and model.
She is so cool and she's tall, she's a tall girl like me. So I really like seeing tall girls
succeed because it can be hard, not like hard being tall. But, you know, we are sometimes
we're told that we're more masculine or that we aren't standard of beauty like other
women. And so it's super cool to see people like her. And I think social media has helped
me a lot because there's always little moments of joy on my timeline, whether I know the
person or not. So my mom is definitely like my mentor or my role model. But there are
people I see online every day that I'm proud to be a part of a community with them. I get to
see them succeed.

Maiysha ​I love that answer because I'm a tall girl. So yeah, I totally empathize with all of
that. You know, and I know that, you know, obviously we're in an election year and I know
you're still too young to vote, but you are a champion of Black girls. And I have to ask you,
how does, how did you feel seeing a Black woman nominated for the vice presidency?

Marley Dias ​Well, I'm extremely excited, not only because Kamala's a Black woman, but
because she's also a biracial woman. And I think it's cool for both South Asian girls and
Black girls to see an example of someone that looks like them. And it's a moment for all
girls, really. So I'm really happy that that's happening. And I hope that people will make a

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conscious decision that allow for these moments to happen on local levels to where I will
be able to see that my mayor is a Black woman and things like that because I live in a
small white town. So I hope that, you know, this can set a larger precedent to show that
we, we can hopefully create cycles of change. And that as much as I am super excited to
see that we have a vice presidential candidate that looks like me, that I could also have
people in my communities and on more local and smaller levels that are doing the same
thing.

Maiysha ​Yeah, I must say, I, I live in a city where my mayor is a Black woman and it does
it does make a difference. I live in Chicago. You know, it's different, you know, and I think
that the way you have championed the stories of Black girls is a political statement in and
of itself. And, you know, I do the same here at The Root. So I personally love that. And I
know that you already identify as an activist. Are there any books that you would
recommend for young people who are hoping to get more politically engaged?

Marley Dias ​So I think one thing I would first say to young people that want to get
politically engaged is that there are many different forms of what that means. I think a lot of
the times, because of the way that we are taught, whether it's in history, class or online,
that political awareness or activism is solely about the general and primary election for the
president. It is not solely that. And the work that I do is not is related to that because I'm
fighting for both education, both representation, access for kids. But we sometimes need
to focus on things that affect us more directly other than trying to charge at super large
issues. So one of my pieces of advice for kids is that a lot of the times if you ask them,
what would you want to fix the world, if you could have one thing and they might say world
peace or ending hunger or solving homelessness. And these things are super, super valid
and motivators to change the world. But we need to start with things that we care about in
places that we live. So I live in an area where I do not have any, a lot of people in my town
are not food insecure and have access to food that they need. But I live two miles away
from a town that has a water crisis near Newark, New Jersey, and does not have enough
access for healthy foods for kids, especially now that they aren't physically in school. So I
think it's important for kids to look at where they are, what they're surrounded by, and how
those can contribute to larger issues. Because if you just say you want to solve world
hunger, you don't even know where the places that are affected by it. You don't even know
how you're affected. But you need to start smaller in order to gain a more personal
understanding and to also have more just information, intellect, knowledge, and be able to
really articulate what the issue is.

Danielle ​Oh, that's great advice, not just for young people, but for all people.

Maiysha ​I know I was like you to articulate it better than I could, frankly.

Danielle ​So speaking on your, your work as an activist, I know that it's not the easiest time
right now to have hope in the world, you know, with the pandemic, you know, with
unemployment, with so many issues, with the protest movement that has taken to the
streets. But young people like you really give people like me and Maiysha a lot of hope for
the future. So what gives you hope?

Marley Dias ​That's a tough question, because I, I think sometimes, like hope comes with
my own, like, naiveness and the fact that I haven't experienced a lot of the struggles that
some people go through. So I know it's a lot easier for me to be hopeful. And one thing I
try to do, though, because I don't feel like, especially when people ask me what challenges
have you faced, what have you overcome? A lot of those things have been internal,

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whether it's my own mental health or my family things. And, I don't feel like there are many
institutions in my life that are working against me in the same way that other Black people
are. So I know that I don't, I exist in a place of privilege, among others. So telling people to
be hopeful is something that I don't want to do because I know how annoying it can be to
be overly positive and to feel like you're ignoring someone else's struggle. So I think one
thing that gives me hope is people's willingness to accept my happiness and to try and
translate it into their own lives. I never feel like people want to silence my voice, and I feel
like people are willing to listen and hopefully give me access into their lives and to show
that and connect with me, because I think it's easier for me to feel hopeful because people
are always saying I give them hope, you know, like they're willing to accept in my positivity
and they're willing to listen to my story and then understand that I'm committed to these
things. And the fact that I feel so welcomed, both personally and in real life and on the
Internet makes me believe that other kids like me can be welcomed and that I won't be the
only kid that gets to do interviews about topics like this. And there will be a future where
people are so much more welcoming and accepting to use activism. So I think it's people
just being nice to me, to be honest. It gives me hope and people listening to me like, you
know, getting to do interviews and stuff like that. It provides me with new opportunities and
new audiences because there's going to be some times where people see my face over
and over and over again or whatever. But there are also the opportunities where people in
Omaha and Des Moines have never heard of me and get to see my experience and
hopefully relate to it.

Danielle ​That was so impressive! I'm so impressed by you!

Maiysha ​And just so utterly charming. I'm enchanted.

Danielle ​I love it. And I was, I came from a similar background as to yours, Marley. So I
definitely, definitely did not have some of the same struggles that other African-Americans
have. You know, I had my own individual ones or my internal ones. But when it comes to
what the common narratives are around the Black experience, I didn't see as much
representation of my particular experience as some of others. And so I think it's important
for all you know, I figured that out at a young age, that just because your narrative might
not fit, whatever the popular narrative is, it doesn't mean that you don't have a say or a
voice or an opinion or a calling or a purpose like you still have all of those things. You just,
as you said, just coming from a particular place of privilege and being aware of that
privilege, the fact that you are aware of it, like that's amazing in of itself, because I know
people my age who won't admit to any awareness of their privileged background, whether
it be educational, financial, socioeconomic, whatever. They're not copping to it. But we're
going to wrap up we have this one question that we always like to ask all of our guests.
What are you reading these days?

Marley Dias ​Oh, my gosh. Don't even I OK, it's a long story actually this time because I
am starting school in three days. And I apparently, I signed up for AP Language Arts.
Apparently that happened all out of the blue. Not...I was like I didn't get my schedule. I
didn't really get a chance to plan out my schedule. And I knew I qualified for the course,
but I didn't know I was going to take the course. So I'm reading Blackboy by Richard
Wright. I just started about 30 minutes ago, so we're working through it. I have three days.
We're working through it, but I'm excited to read it. It's been ,it's one of the more sad, sad,
saddening or stern books that I've ever read. And it's kind of scary because I'm in a more
mature class, like I've never taken an AP class before, but I'm reading Black Boy by
Richard Wright. And hopefully by the time people see this, I'll be done with it. I got an
extension, but I really, really hope I'm done with it by the time people see this.

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Danielle ​Amazing. Marley, it was so wonderful having you on It's Lit. You were a delight.
You were a pleasure, you were a joy.

Maiysha ​Absolutely.

Marley Dias ​Thank you.

Danielle ​Please come back.

Maiysha ​Yeah

Marley Dias ​Of course I will.

Danielle ​Thank you.

Maiysha ​Thanks, Marley.

Maiysha ​The Root Presents It's Lit is produced by myself, Maiysha Kai, and Micaela Heck.
Our sound engineer is Ryan Allen.

Danielle ​If you like the show and want to help us out, please give us a rating on Apple
Podcasts. That will help other people find the show, which we would really appreciate. If
you have any thoughts or feedback, you can find me on Twitter at Black Snob or
Instagram at Belton Danielle.

Maiysha ​And you can find me at Maiysha on Twitter. That's M A I Y S H A and at Maiysha
Kai on Instagram.

Danielle ​And before we go, we always like to talk a little bit about what we're currently
reading. Maiysha, what book are you into these days?

Maiysha ​Well, you know, I don't have children, so I don't read a lot of children's books, but
I do have children in my life. And, you know, one of the books that I've been reading lately
to my niece and nephew, I read over Zoom, actually, because they're in Milwaukee, is I've
been reading Kamala and Maya's Big Idea.

Danielle ​Ah!

Maiysha ​Written by Meena Harris, who is Kamala—Maya's daughter and Kamala's niece.
And, you know, this is just such a great book to get kids not actually talking about the
democracy and our vice presidential candidate, but actually just talking about community
organizing and what it means to take responsibility at a small level for positive change in
your community. So I think it's a darling book. And I sent it to them and they called me up
like Auntie Mai! Auntie Mai! Will you read it? So I did. What are you reading, Danielle?

Danielle ​Oh, that's so cute. That's so amazing. I wish I was reading something cute and
amazing, but as always, I'm reading something heavy and possibly depressing. I'm
reading the Mulatta Concubine: Terror, Intimacy, Freedom and Desire in the Black
Transatlantic by Lisa Ze Winters. It's all about the history of biracial women, in some cases
free women of color who were mistresses, or I don't know if they had much of a choice in
this matter, but.

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 Air Date: 11/6/20

Maiysha ​We're talking about like placage and these kinds of customs. Correct?

Danielle ​Yes, exactly.

Maiysha ​OK.

Danielle ​So not a lot of choice, but this is the life that they led and it's all about how people
perceived them.

Maiysha ​Yeah, well, that's you know, it's so interesting. I just did my 23 and Me profile, so
it was slightly triggering.

Danielle ​You know, mine was very much, I did the 23 and Me a few years back and I was
not super surprised by mine. Like I'm like over 80, 83 percent subsaharan African.

Maiysha ​See. And I'm 70 something West African, which also did not surprise me. But,
you know, when they get to that, they do that little crossover. All of the sudden it gets real
muddy real quick.

Danielle ​Yeah. Like there was like a surprise Asian person in my background. I'm like,
how did you get there?

Maiysha ​Oh, that's cool.

Danielle ​Yeah, that was cool. There was also some surprise Native American like, wasn't
expecting that. So, you know, it was very, very small and mostly. Mostly, mostly just
African. All right, if that is it for this week, stay tuned next week, when we'll talk more about
our DNA for your reading pleasure. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you
again.

Maiysha ​And until then, keep it lit.

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