Evidence Lost (2nd Ed)

Evidence lost
Public support for the fight against crime and public confidence in the justice
system should not be counted on so long as insufficient attention is paid
to the experience and evidence of people who witness street violence
suspect (v.) – [i] to consider to be true, [ii] to mistrust, [iii] to be ready to

believe but without sufficient evidence, [iv] to speculate as to culpability; [v]
to believe something is worse than it appears;
suspect (n.) – someone thought to have committed a crime;
suspect (adj.) – doubtful, questionable;
Suspects, Usual (coll.) – [i] habitual criminals, [ii] scapegoats, as in ‘to round
up the usual suspects’, where the police find a quick fix to placate their
political masters (orig. the movie, Casablanca), [iii] (derog.) term for people
who post comments on websites.
Second edition
Evidence lost
Evidence lost
FOREWORD
Our organisations campaign against violence on behalf of victims of crime, and for a justice system that
the public can trust. We each took up our campaigns following the unbearable trauma of a senseless,
murderous attack on a child of ours, and the experiences of the criminal justice system into which we
were thrown.
It is in such serious cases, that our criminal justice system is seen and expected to be at its best. The
finest police officers are assigned to the case, the most able lawyers are provided, and the best judges
preside over the trial. Yet we learned that such cases also show what is essentially wrong with the
system. They demonstrate that more consideration is shown to defendants than to victims, that the
system is too detached from the public whose confidence it must have, and that the current approach
to justice is now as much a process of regulation as it is about a moral and just response to crime.
One example of the system’s remoteness is the way it confuses victims and witnesses. As victims we
understand the difference all too well and why it is an important one to maintain. We know that if
more people are encouraged to bear witness when they see violent crime it will have a deterrent
effect. We know that less crime and fewer victims is what we all want. Where such crime is not
deterred, the participation of independent witnesses can be the key to ensuring that the investigation is
swift, the prosecution is fair and that justice is done. For these reasons, we welcome the fact that
witnesses have a new voice in Witness Confident.
We hope that you will read this report not because of the despair and frustration that too many now
seem to feel, but because of the hope that is offered and the practical approach Witness Confident
recommends. While there have been important steps to move victims and witnesses to the heart of
the justice system, this report gave us reason to pause and think. How can we rebalance the justice
system when for every £1 of public money that is spent on voluntary help for victims and witnesses,
over £30 is spent on professional support for defendants?
When someone is told they cannot bury their child because the murder suspects may want a second
and third post mortem, denying legal advice to the family does more than add insult to injury - it is
unjust. When a murder trial ends in acquittal on a technicality or because the jury have not yet
reached a verdict, we believe the family should be entitled to independent advice on whether there are
grounds for appeal or for complaint. When a witness to a serious attack is unwilling to give a
statement to the police, we would rather his or her evidence is given to a local lawyer than lost
altogether. These are just a few examples of what we, and others, have had to deal with on our own.
When there is nobody to provide professional advice or assistance in such serious cases, is it any
surprise that those working within our criminal justice system routinely overlook the rights of victims
and witnesses?
The proposal in this report that 10% of the money allocated for criminal defence work should go to
lawyers to look after the interests of witnesses and victims makes good sense. In our view, it will
rebalance the criminal justice system while retaining what is good in it and supporting those working
to make it better. We ask policy makers, professionals and politicians to do what we have done: to
pause and think.
Carole Longe Ann Oakes-Odger Thelma Perkins David Kneebone

Justice after Acquittal KnifeCrimes.Org Mothers in Pain Victims’ Voice
Evidence lost
WHY THIS REPORT MATTERS
Witness Confident is a grass roots organisation that is taking a stand against the walk-on-
by culture that fosters street violence1, feeds fear and fuels public disengagement.
When the charity launched on 9/9/9, our work was covered by the Daily Mail, Daily
Telegraph, Sky News, independent radio and across the BBC. Unbeknownst to us, the
BBC posted a Have Your Say debate on the topic on its website, asking“Have you been
witness to criminal activity and did you report it or ignore it? Have you been a victim
where everyone else looked the other way?”
When the debate was closed two days later, 1324 posts had been published. Figures for
similar debates on other topics during the following months were:
Are you having the swine flu vaccine? 476
Should the police DNA test everyone they arrest? 701
Should health & safety rules be curbed? 1417
Terrorism – how safe do you feel? 1296
Should MPs travel first class? 1131
Section 3 of this report reviews the research on street violence and the experiences of
witnesses from the Home Office, the Cabinet Office, the National Police Improvement
Agency and others. It demonstrates why such evidence has a strong impact on public
support for initiatives against street violence and public confidence in the justice system.
Section 4 draws on the qualitative evidence from the BBC’s Have Your Say debate. It
includes over one hundred case studies of street violence and a fair cross-section of the
opinions expressed. While the evidence from such a debate is not representative and
should be treated with care, we do not think it can be dismissed. Three members of the
public who were not registered users on the BBC’s Have Your Say remarked:
If I were something in the Home Office or ACPO reading this HYS subject and were it a representative
view of law abiding middle England, I think I would have cause to be very worried indeed. However, I
don't suppose anyone in Authority is worried, reading it or not, representative or otherwise. We are after
all ‘Tough on crime and the causes of crime’.
CJ, Worcester, 9/9/9 17.43
It is very clear reading these comments that there is huge apathy about reporting street crime to the police
because the police themselves are so ineffective. Are you going to report this to the Home Secretary and
advise us of the result otherwise this apathy will become more serious?
Jonathan, Windsor, 10/9/9 11.24
Perhaps the attention of police senior management (and the Home Office) should be drawn to this forum.
If they read a good cross section of the postings, from all over the country, they would be in no doubt as
to why there is a growing "chasm" between the police and the public.
David (Soapbox), East Whitburn, 10/9/9, 13.25
1
We define street violence as attacks and muggings by strangers (and exclude those by spouses,
partners and acquaintances). As the British Crime Survey details, some stranger attacks and
muggings will happen on public transport, at or around a pub, club, the workplace or home.
Evidence lost
CONTENTS
Page
1. Key facts 1
2. Recom m endations 2
3. Street violence and public confidence 3
a) Street violence – why it matters 3

b) Street violence – why witnesses matter 4
c) Home Office research (2006) 5
d) Cabinet Office research (2008) 7
e) National Police Improvement Agency review (2008) 8
f) Witness Confident research (2009) 9
4 Have Your Say ‘W ould you report street crim e?’ 11
a) And they just walked on by 13

b) First impressions, lasting impressions? 14
c) Tales on engaging the public 17
d) Feedback & follow-up 20
e) Police conduct 22
f) Courts, crimes & punishments 26
g) Why bother? 29
h) Confident witnesses 31
Second edition: 9th May 2010

Witness Confident
312 St Paul’s Road
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Charity No 1131106 | Ltd. Co 6917476
Evidence lost
1 KEY FACTS
 1,159,500 people were victims of street violence in 2008/9
 83% of these incidents were not reported to or resolved by the police
 If they were mugged on a busy street, 61% of women students believe none
of the witnesses would give the police a statement
 55% of people who witness a mugging are satisfied with the police handling
of the matter
 81% of people who are stopped on foot by the police are satisfied with the
police handing of the matter
 The public spent £24 on voluntary support looking after the interests of each
victim and witness in 2007/8
 The public spent £766 on professional support looking after the interests of
each defendant in 2008/9
 36% of people agree that the criminal justice system achieves the correct
balance between the rights of offenders and the rights of victims
 Of 102 experiences of public and police responses to street violence posted

on a BBC Have Your Say on the topic, 18 were positive
 Of the 84 negative experiences, 62 were critical of the police, 9 were critical

of passers-by, 4 were critical of the criminal justice system and 9 were
critical of all three
 There was an 11% fall in the number of violent offences brought to justice in
the year to September 2009.
1
Evidence lost
2 RECOMMENDATIONS
1. 10% of the public money that is spent on criminal defence work should go
to lawyers to provide advice, assist and – exceptionally - represent
witnesses and victims in cases of violent and serious crime (page 7)
2. Feedback from witnesses and victims should be a significant factor in

assessing the career prospects of police officers (page 7)
3. The Home Office should commission quantitative and qualitative research

on attitudes toward the walk-on-by culture and the experiences of people
who witness street violence (page 8)
4. Courts, defence lawyers, police and prosecutors should publicise cases

where they consider a witness, member of the public or police officer has
made an important or exemplary contribution to the victim, community
safety or the administration of justice (page 12)
5. To build and maintain confidence in the excellent Policing Pledge, it is

important that police forces monitor compliance with its provisions
regularly and publish the results (page 16)
6. Chief Constables and the Director of Public Prosecutions should endorse

the message of the Metropolitan Police Commissioner that we should
celebrate, and not discourage, people who take a stand against street crime
(page 19)
7. As to a pilot internet map for witness appeals and logs of street violence,
the Metropolitan Police should encourage its officers to update the
information so that the public, victims and witnesses can readily see how
these cases progress and the value of reporting street crime and engaging
as a witness (page 21)
8. When the Policing Pledge is reviewed, it should provide that officers should
aim to thank witnesses and victims (page 21)
9. When the Policing Pledge is reviewed, it should be made clear that the
police are not expected to treat suspects and defendants with the same
degree of respect and dignity as they are expected to show witnesses,
victims and members of the public (page 25)
2
Evidence lost
3 STREET VIOLENCE AND PUBLIC CONFIDENCE
a) Street violence – w hy it m atters

The British Crime Survey (BCS) estimates that people were attacked by strangers on
852,000 occasions in 2008/9. It also estimates that people were mugged by strangers
307,500 times that year2. These figures exclude cases where the victim was under 16 and
relate only to incidents in England & Wales.
The Table below shows how many of these 1,150,000 incidents of street violence resulted
in injury (46%) and how serious the injuries were.
Stranger attacks Stranger muggings Total

Incidents 852,000 307,500 1,159,500
No injury 409,000 209,100 618,060
Physical injury 443,040 98,400 541,440
Medical attention 144,840 33,825 178,665
Hospital stay 25,560 6,150 31,710
Table 1. Street violence - injuries sustained3
Being attacked or mugged by a stranger is something that most people will relate to
friends, family, neighbours and colleagues. The same cannot be assumed for domestic
or acquaintance violence where the victim may feel some sense of embarrassment,
shame or culpability.
As Table 1 shows, the BCS estimates that last year 31,710 victims of street violence were
injured so badly that they required one or more night in hospital. We think it reasonable
to assume that news of each such serious attack will be communicated to ten family
members, ten family friends, ten people in their immediate community and ten work
colleagues/contacts who know the victim. We also think it reasonable to assume that
each of these forty people will mention the attack and injury to three other people. On
these assumptions, last year the reality of street violence will have been communicated
first or second-hand to almost 4 million people.
As to the other 146,955 incidents where the victim required medical attention, if twenty
people across family, friends, neighbours and colleagues are told about this first hand
(half as many as when the victim is hospitalised) and each of these tell two other people,
the reality of street violence will have been communicated to a further 6 million people
last year.
On these assumptions, one in four adults last year will have heard first or second hand
that someone was attacked or mugged by a stranger and needed medical attention as a
result. If one considers the other 362,775 victims of street violence who were battered
and bruised, and the 618,060 who were attacked or mugged by a stranger but suffered no
physical injury, the proportion of the population who will have heard about street
violence through these informal networks last year is likely to have been significantly
greater.
2
Crime in England & Wales (2008/9) page 27. Table 2.01. As to muggings by strangers, see also
page 70 Table 3.14
3
Ibid, page 63, Table 3.06. We have assumed that the fact and degree of injury is the same for
stranger muggings as for the 18% of muggings that were not carried out by strangers. The Table
aggregates two sets of data that was rounded up by the BCS and so the numbers are estimates.
3
Evidence lost
In our view it is from these experiences and through these informal networks that the
public learn not only of the reality of being attacked or mugged by a stranger on our
streets but the risk of it happening to them. The implications of this are far reaching
because - as the British Crime Survey has long recognised - the perceived risk of being
attacked by a stranger has a direct impact on people’s views on and concerns about the
national crime rate:
“Analysis based on the 2002/03 BCS showed the following perception measures to be
strongly independently associated with perceiving the national crime rate to have
increased ‘a lot’: thinking that the criminal justice system was not effective in reducing
crime and being fairly or very worried about being attacked by a stranger.” 4
Information about street violence that has come through such informal networks will
bring home the risk that we or our loved ones might be attacked by a stranger. This is
because (a) street violence is essentially random5, and (b) the victim will be someone we
know or know of and so are likely to imagine it could have been us.
So while people’s views about the efficacy of the criminal justice system in reducing
crime will likely be influenced by what they read or hear about through the media, we
doubt the media has much influence on the perceived risk of being attacked by a
stranger. This is because it is rare that the local or national media carry such reports –
few stories appeared about the 3,423 victims of street violence who required medical
treatment in or out of hospital each week last year. Rather, people’s assessment of the
risk of being attacked by a stranger will be based on what they hear first or second hand
and on their own experiences as victims or witnesses.
b) Street violence – w hy w itnesses m atter

The British Crime Survey estimates that last year 43% of stranger attacks and 41% of
muggings were reported to the police. Table 2 below shows this data as numbers of
incidents reported to the police and also the numbers of those cases that are reported
which the police ‘clear up’.
Stranger attacks Stranger muggings Total

Incidents 852,000 307,500 1,159,500
Reported to police6 366,360 126,075 492,435
Cleared up by police7 172,189 25,215 197,404
% not cleared up or
not reported 80% 92% 83%
Table 2. Street violence – incidents reported to and cleared-up’ by the police
4
Crime in England & Wales (2007/8), p 130. As to the other factor that impacts on concern about
the national crime rate, for the year to June 2009, only 39% felt very or fairly confident that the
CJS was effective reducing crime (Table 3, CJS Quarterly Stats [29/11/09], Ministry of Justice). The
perceived risk of being attacked by a stranger is not reviewed officially.
5
This differs from domestic or acquaintance violence as the fact that a woman may have been
assaulted by her partner does not mean all women who hear of this then feel at risk from their
own partners.
6
Crime in England & Wales (2008/9) page 40, Table 2.09. The Table shows the reporting rate for
“mugging & snatch theft” at 41% and for robbery at 40%.
7
Ibid, Table 6.01, pages 137 & 138. Please note that clear up rates are collected separately from
the British Crime Survey. As no figure is available for the clear-up rate for muggings, we have used
that for personal (as opposed to business) robbery: 20%. The clear-up rate for offences of violence
against the person is 47%. The term ‘clear-up’ is explained in footnote 8.
4
Evidence lost
As to the clear-up rate for offences of violence, there is no breakdown available between
the three types recorded in the BCS: stranger, acquaintance and domestic. The relevance
of this is that for an offence to be ‘cleared-up’, a suspect needs to have been identified to
the police, the police need to have told the suspect that they hold him or her responsible
and a sanction needs to have been imposed8.
It is self-evident that while the identification of the suspect to the police will be a given in
violent crimes where the parties are in a domestic relationship or are acquaintances, it is
this identification more than anything else which will be the highest hurdle for the police
in street violence. As such, the clear-up rate will likely be much lower.9
While we are not asserting that it is the only explanation for the 11% fall in the number of
violent offences cleared up or brought to justice in the year to September 200910, it is
noteworthy that the BCS figure for stranger violence in 08/09 was 11% higher11.
What is clear, however, is that unless people who witness street violence are encouraged
and given the confidence to engage - be it by photographing the suspect on a camera
phone or giving a description to the police - it is difficult to see how many of those who
attack or mug strangers in our streets can be identified. Where the suspects are not
identified, cases cannot be successfully pursued within our criminal justice system and it
is difficult to see how they can be deterred within our communities.
This is why the engagement of those who witness street violence is so important. We
turn now to the available research on this matter.
c) Policing & the Crim inal Justice System : public confidence

The most authoritative piece of research on public confidence in the police and the
criminal justice system is a 2006 Home Office report12. This analysed data from the
2004/5 British Crime Survey and is regularly cited in academic and policy studies on the
issues of public confidence in the police and the CJS.
The report included data on the experiences people had when they witnessed crimes and
on whether they were satisfied with the way the police handled those matters that had
been drawn to their attention. The research also included data on the experiences of
people who had been stopped by the police and the satisfaction rates.
While the data on witness satisfaction is no longer collected, the Home Office has
helpfully supplied us the last and most up-to-date statistics on the satisfaction rates of
witnesses and of those stopped by the police13. This data is taken from the 2007/8 British
8
These sanctions are being charged, cautioned, reprimanded or where the offence is taken into
consideration when the person is convicted of another offence.
9
On the assumption that the clear-up rate for stranger attacks is the same as that for personal
robbery, 89% of cases of street violence will either go unreported or will not be cleared up.
10
National Criminal Justice Board http://lcjb.cjsonline.gov.uk/ncjb/29.html
11
The 11% increase rise was not statistically significant under the rules used by the BCS and
accordingly the level of stranger violence was described as stable.
12
Policing and the Criminal Justice System – public confidence and perceptions (Home Office)
07/06
13
The first edition of this report used data from the Home Office report cited in the preceding
footnote - that the satisfaction ratings for witnesses of muggings were 2% and of threats &
violence were 33%. While the Home Office report was misleading on this point, the error was ours
and we apologise for it. The Home Office has agreed to correct its 2006 report.
5
Evidence lost
Crime Survey and is shown in Table 3 below.
When considering the satisfaction rates of the people who were stopped by the police, it
should be noted that they were not necessarily stopped because they were suspected of
any criminal activity14. As 44% of those stopped said they felt angry, embarrassed,
worried, upset and guilty, one would have expected these negative emotional reactions
to have affected the overall satisfaction rating given.
Table 3. Source – Home Office RDS, drawn from the BCS 2007/8
What is striking from Table 3, however, is that those stopped were 21-26 percentage
points more satisfied with the police handling of the incident than members of the public
who witnessed street violence. This evidence supports the views expressed during the
BBC Have Your Say debate - and set out in section 4 of this report - that the police do not
treat victims or witnesses as their primary customers. It is also supported by the fact that
only 36% of people agree with the statement that the criminal justice system achieves the
correct balance between the rights of the offender and the rights of the victim15.
We think this attitude on the part of the police is due to a number of factors, including
how officers are trained, legislative and bureaucratic requirements, managerial priorities,
career paths and performance indicators and, on a simple human level, familiarity. This
cultural attitude is also strongly influenced by the fact that it is an officer’s conduct
toward suspects which will be most closely scrutinised and challenged and that this will
be done by skilled professionals, often in public.
This mindset is also an inevitable consequence of how the criminal justice system and
public funds prioritises the interests of suspects over those of victims and witnesses.
While £1.15 billion of public money was spent in 2007/8 on criminal legal aid providing
1.5 million acts of assistance16, £37 million was provided in 2008/9 to Victim Support to
assist 1.5 million victims and to provide its witness service17. These figures average out at
£766 for professional assistance to each suspect as against £24 on voluntary help for each
victim and witness.
14
6% of those stopped said they were grateful and 50% said they had no emotional reaction to
being stopped
15
National Criminal Justice Board, for the year to 12/09. From seven lead-in statements on public
confidence in the fairness of the CJS - http://lcjb.cjsonline.gov.uk/ncjb/29.html
16
Annual Report (Legal Services Commission) 2007/8 page 10
17
Annual Report (Ministry of Justice) 2008/9 page 51
6
Evidence lost
While local law firms are publicly funded by contract to help people as to criminal law,
this money is earmarked for clients who are suspects or defendants. None of the public’s
money is made readily available to offer legal support to witnesses or victims – be it to
advise or assist reluctant witnesses, foster engagement, draft statements, liaise with
police and court on procedure and law (including special measures) or to prepare victim
impact statements.
However, if professional help was available in serious cases to witnesses and victims and
was provided by lawyers who knew their way around the system and who had the
respect of the police and courts, we believe the needs and interests of witnesses and
victims would be heeded more carefully and taken more seriously across the criminal
justice system.
It is for this reason, we recommend that one tenth of the public money provided through
criminal legal aid contracts is designated for and tendered for law firms to advise, assist –
and exceptionally – represent victims and witnesses in cases of violent and serious crime.
Such a step would, in one move and at no additional public expense, rebalance the
criminal justice system and rebuild public confidence in the police, lawyers and the law.
In turn, it would mean the public was more willing to engage with the criminal justice
system.
Such a move should not be seen as increasing the risk of miscarriages of justice or as
taking money away from suspects or defendants. Anybody who is wrongly suspected or
accused of a serious or violent crime will want independent witnesses to come forward to
exonerate them and is not likely to object if a victim has access to some legal support.
Where witnesses and victims do have some legal support, it will be less likely that the
defence team will seek adjournments in the hope that witnesses will not attend on the
resumed date and the prosecution case will then fail. Before long, we expect such a move
will save public money as with more witnesses engaging, those who committed an
offence will more likely plead guilty rather than take their chances at trial.
Legal aid aside, an additional step that would do much to ensure that the police do not
overlook the needs of victims and witnesses will be if the career and promotion prospects
of officers were to depend in part on the feedback that they and their teams receive from
victims and witnesses.
This step will build on and strengthen the ground work laid by the Policing Pledge that
recognises that people’s confidence in the police depends largely on the human factor –
how they are treated and how they feel their concern is addressed.
d) Engaging Com m unities in Fighting Crim e (Cabinet Office)

In June 2008 the Cabinet Office published Louise Casey’s important and influential report
Engaging Communities in Fighting Crime18. This recognised that while in a number of
areas the Government had made real progress in tackling crime, “it would be wrong to
dismiss public concern about crime as nothing more than a gap between perception and
reality”19. The report points out that 55% of the public said that crime was the most
important issue facing the country and that while 79% of the public agree that the
Criminal Justice System respects the rights of offenders only 33% are confident that it
meets the needs of victims.
18
Engaging Communities in Fighting Crime (Cabinet Office) 2008
19
Ibid, page 6
7
Evidence lost
The policy in the report was informed by 1502 responses to a Cabinet Office Have Your
Say20 that was put on the Cabinet Office website and publicised to groups working with
victims and witnesses and in the criminal justice field. The authors make clear that their
evidence is “more likely to represent the views of the public who are actively involved in
their community or affected by crime”. Drawing on what they found, the report observes
as to the reporting and witnessing of crime:
“If the public lack confidence in the police and others to act on their behalf
against crime, a vicious circle can begin, breeding fear, public disengagement
and withdrawal, feeding an environment in which crime is allowed to grow.
Only a small minority of people we heard from during the review told us they
thought the public did not have any role to play in tackling or preventing crime.
However, a very significant number expressed concerns about coming forward
more generally to intervene, report crime or give evidence.”21
While this data chimes with the other evidence reviewed in this report, we think that
authoritative qualitative and quantitative research should be commissioned on public
attitudes toward the walk-on-by culture and on the experiences of people who witness
street violence. This is something that we believe will best be commissioned by the
Home Office.
e) Public Confidence in the Police (NPIA)

The National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA) published a report on Public
Confidence in the Police in November 2008. This reviewed the literature and remarked
that comparatively few research studies have looked at public confidence in the police in
the UK. It went on to draw extensively on the above 2006 Home Office analysis of data
from the 2004/5 British Crime Survey22 on public confidence.
The NPIA reported that the research available showed that23

a) victims of crime have less confidence in the police than non-victims,
b) those who initiate contacts with the police have less confidence than
those who have had no contact, and
c) confidence increases if the police are seen to act fairly and justly.
As to the evidence that those who had initiated contact with the police had lower
satisfaction than those who had had none, the NPIA pointed out24 that on further analysis
where people have a good response from the police they had a higher satisfaction rating
than those who had had no contact.
The NPIA also cited research that shows that the impact of any direct contact with the
police influences not only the ratings by that individual, but also those of his or her
family, friends and neighbours25.
The report summarised from the research the factors that are independently associated
with public confidence in the local police26. These, we believe, can be usefully divided
20
Engaging Communities in Fighting Crime – Have Your Say responses (Cabinet Office) 2008
21
Note 10, page 9
22
Policing and the Criminal Justice System – public confidence and perceptions (Home Office)
07/06
23
Public Confidence in the Police (NPIA) 2008 page 2
24
Ibid page 7 and Table A.1
25
Ibid page 10
26
Ibid page 11
8
Evidence lost
into three groups:

a) factors over which the police have no influence – age; sex; housing
tenure; education; newspaper; and whether the area is urban or rural;
b) factors over which police have direct control – whether they deal with
things that matter locally; whether they treat everyone fairly; how
contacts with the police are rated;
c) factors over which the police have a major influence – perceptions of
crime and anti-social behaviour locally, sense of safety when walking
alone after dark, and when people witness crime.
It seems clear from this NPIA research that where someone witnesses street crime, it will
likely impact on their perception of crime locally and also on their sense of safety when
walking alone after dark. Furthermore, they will be likely to share their experiences with
family, friends and neighbours. So while the NPIA’s research shows that people who had
witnessed crime had less confidence in the police than those who had not27, it should not
be overlooked that witnessing street crime will have a ripple effect on public confidence
in the local police unless they are seen to deal with it diligently.
f) The Perils of Indifference (W itness Confident)

In December 2009, this charity published its report28 of a survey it had commissioned
from a market research company on the views and experiences of university students as
to street crime and the role of witnesses.
If they were mugged on a busy street, 37% of university students said they were confident
that one of the people who witnessed the incident would give a statement to the police.
By gender, women students were significantly more fearful than men with 61% saying
they were not confident that any of the witnesses would give the police a statement.
The students were also asked to explain in their own words the reasons for their
confidence or lack of it. Below we reproduce a few of the students’ comments on their
confidence in the police:

I have witnessed a crime, reported it to the police, made a follow up phone call and still not received any
further police contact. Am I going to be influenced by anything other than a complete change of attitude
by senior police let alone a charity???
M, Photography, Year 1, Canterbury
Make it easier and also the police should be more helpful. I have been victim of crime and they did
practically nothing about it even though I had evidence such as car license plates and witnesses etc. All
the police seem to do nowadays is direct you to victim support which is a waste of time.
F, Forensic Science, Year 1, London Southbank
Help the victim get proper support and perhaps get things back that were taken from them, show a pro-
active response. People I know that have been mugged have not reported it as they believed the police
would not do anything to help them. Ensure the police follow up on leads properly and the criminals are
dealt with properly to avoid them committing such crimes in the future and I believe people would be
more co-operative.
F, Journalism, Year 2, Northumbria
27
Ibid page 8
28
Public policy, the perils of indifference and street violence (2009) Witness Confident. The report
and empirical data is available at www.witnessconfident.org/research
9
Evidence lost
Most people realise that the police are disinterested in anything other than targets or major crime. Even
when they do receive statements, they do nothing to follow up.
M, Cinema, Year 1, Canterbury
The chart overleaf shows the main reasons why the students thought people would not
engage as witnesses (where the reasons were prompted). From this it can be see that the
students’ concerns related to the whole of the criminal justice system and were not
restricted to the police.
Table 4: Public policy, the perils of indifference and street violence

(2009) Witness Confident, page 19. 29
As to addressing the problems identified by the students, the charity recommended that
the police and the courts should give much more encouragement and backing to people
who take a stand against street crime and that there should be
• a 60 minute target for the time witnesses should have to spend to give the police a
statement;
• the use of handycams to record witness statements at the scene and that the
evidence can be used in court;
• online tools / internet mapping to put witnesses easily in direct contact with the
right officer; and
• the publication of information showing it is not a waste of time to be a witness.
29
Fieldwork was conducted via an on-line survey by Opinionpanel Research between 15 and 17
July 2009. The sample consisted of 1,002 students at 119 Higher Education (HE) institutions
representative by gender, year group and university type.
10
HYS: Would you report street crime?
4. HAVE YOUR SAY “WOULD YOU REPORT STREET CRIME?”
Witness Confident’s launch on 9/9/9 was covered in the national media and across many
BBC national and regional news programmes. Unbeknownst to the charity, the BBC
posted a Have Your Say discussion on its website
Would you report street crime?
The "w alk on by" attitude to street crim e needs to be

challenged, according to a new charity. Have you been a
victim of crim e w here passers-by have com pletely ignored
what was happening?
At least 850,000 people were attacked by complete strangers last

year, according to Witness Confident – a rise of 11% on the previous
year – with eight out of 10 cases being unreported or unresolved.
The charity says it wants to improve the way witnesses are dealt with
as many people assume it will be too much bother to get involved in
reporting the crime and possibly having to go to court.
Have you been witness to crim inal activity and did you
report it or ignore it? Have you been a victim where
everyone else has looked the other way?
Do you think the bigger the city the less likely people are
to react? How can the "walk on by" culture be changed?
When the debate was closed two days later, the BBC reported that 1324 posts had been
published. A comparison with similar length debates on other topics during the following
months is shown facing the contents page.
The full debate can be found by searching on the web for “BBC Would you report street
crime?” and we encourage people to read it. In selecting posts for the review in this
section, we decided to focus on the experiences of victims and witnesses of violent street
crime30, to include all positive experiences and to give a sense of the cut and thrust of
what was a polarised and lively debate. As such, this review does not and could not fully
reflect the degree or depth of despair that characterised this HYS debate.
While the data produced by a forum such as the BBC’s Have Your Say (HYS) is not
scientifically representative and cannot be taken to be a reliable indicator of public
opinion, we do not think it can be dismissed while there’s very little qualitative research
about people’s experiences witnessing or reporting street crime.
As to the reliability of the experiences posted on this HYS – which are the focus of our
review - the BBC has told us that occasionally they follow up experiences posted on HYS
and that when they do check them out, they are almost invariably well-founded.
30
While we exclude most posts about other crimes (like burglary), experiences referring to
unspecified crime are included.
11
There were 102 experiences of street crime posted during the debate, of which one third
were from the victim’s perspective and two-thirds from that of witnesses. As the Table
below summarises and the posts in the next section detail, 18 experiences were positive
and 84 were negative (mostly about the police).
Table 5 – Experiences of street crime
While this HYS poll is not representative and while people are more likely to give voice to
negative experiences than positive ones, it is difficult to see how public confidence in
reporting crime to the police will improve if the negative experiences that are aired
outnumber positive ones by five to one. As to the opinions expressed in the debate, of
the 300 most recommended posts, 50 encouraged people to report street crime.
To counter these negative impressions, we recommend that the police, lawyers,

prosecutors and courts should on a regular basis publicise cases where the engagement
of a witness or the conduct of the police has made an important and positive difference
to the victim, public safety or the administration of justice.
NOTE
In the following review of posts from this HYS where the name of a poster is shown in
bold it signifies he or she was a registered user. It was these 250,000+ people who were
registered with HYS who determined what comments are most recommended because
only these registered users were able to recommend posts. (The most recommended
posts appear in this report in the section “Why bother?” on pages 29/30). The posts of
registered users to other HYS debates can be found by a hypertext link and also, in many
cases, by searching their name on the internet with the letters HYS.
As to those posters whose names are not in bold, it is reasonable to assume they do not
regularly post comments to HYS and many will have contributed to this debate because
they saw the news story of the charity’s launch on the BBC website and followed the link
in it to this HYS debate because they felt strongly about the issue.
In March 2010 the BBC changed the format of and IT behind the Have Your Say debates.
Now every person who posts a comment must register first, their previous posts appear
as blogs (and so are available to be read) and there is no longer the facility to recommend
posts.
12
a) And people just walked on by

Yes of course I would report it, I would also stick around to make sure the victim was OK, it's just a pity
no-one did the same when my partner was attacked in the street a couple of years ago, leaving him with a
fractured skull and a lasting legacy of pins holding his eye socket together and constant pain.
suespeaking, London, 9/9/9, 09.28
I was once the victim of an attempted mugging one afternoon in a full supermarket carpark. Although I
managed to chase my assailant off and he got nothing from me, I got no help from anyone else - they just
stood and watched. Although I consider myself lucky not to have been hurt or had anything taken, I was
absolutely distraught that no one came to my aid. I now always make sure I go to someone's aid if they
need it because no victim of crime should feel the way I did after my attack.
Tracy Ellis, High Wycombe, 9/9/9 13.52
Last night whilst trying to reserve a parking space (I know I shouldn’t have been!!!) a very nasty man
tried to run me over! He drove into me twice, and then reversed at speed to try and knock me
down. There was 4 people standing watching, and this happened outside a police station! I was very
scared for my safety and could see people in the police station looking out of the windows. NO ONE
came out, NO ONE said anything, or tried to help me.
sophie, London 9/9/9 13.58
Some time ago my daughter was mugged on a bus, one of several times her handbag was stolen. Despite
her vociferous protests, none of the other passengers lifted a finger to help and the bus driver let the thief
out at the next stop! Needless to say she didn't bother to report it, what would have been the point.
pjajennings, Abingdon, 9/9/9, 17.23
Yes I would report street crime. I have seen people walk by when someone had been attacked. For
example, a girl had been stabbed in the leg with something and was bleeding quite badly in a shopping
centre. No one helped her even though it was obvious and the place was busy. Even when I stopped to
help, people ignored me when I asked for help. I couldn't believe it.
Carly, Luton, 9/9/9, 23.05
I was mugged a year ago by two men at 7am in the morning. Despite my cries, no-one attempted to help
me. Yet recently a fight ensued on a bus after a boy spat at a fellow passenger. At 5ft tall there was little
I could do but I was the only one who attempted to intervene to try and stop them. It shocks me that no-
one would help another human being from suffering abuse or assault. Just because others didn't help me
doesn't mean I should turn my back.
Alex, Manchester, 10/9/9 12.55
I was attacked and robbed in the street early this year by 3 youths - it was witnessed but they wouldn't
even phone the police for me, I had to get to a phone box to ring them myself. While the police's
response was rapid it was abundantly clear that they would not be able to catch the offenders and they
seemed annoyed as reporting the attack would affect their statistics for unsolved crime. My experience
makes me loath to report to the police as it was more hassle than help, but I still would.
ALi, Bath, 10/9/9, 13.01
I was the victim of a sexual assault in broad daylight at a bus stop in a 'nice' part of London. About 10
people ignored my cries for help and got on their buses. I rang the police, who arrived promptly, but
there was nothing they could do as the perpetrator had disappeared, and none of those who witnessed the
assault had been prepared to stop him or stay to help. I can only assume those people who 'walked on by'
wouldn't mind if either they, their family or friend was similarly assaulted.
Deborah Persaud, London, 10/9/9, 13.30
13
b) First im pressions, lasting im pressions?

I saw a broken window in an office building where someone had obviously burgled the place.
Our local police station has been closed, so I called Directory Enquiries (at my expense) to get the
number for the 'local' police station. 25 minutes later, still on hold - I hung up. It's not that people don't
report it - it's that people CAN'T report it!
CeeofGee, Oxford, 9/9/9 09.38
We once tried to report not exactly a crime, but an extremely dangerous situation nonetheless: a car
stopped, facing the wrong way, in the fast lane of a dual carriageway. It was close to the border between
Surrey Police and the Met, and because we couldn't be sure which side of the border it was on, the 999
operator didn't know which force to call and so refused to do anything. Seriously, what's the point?
Disgusted of Mitcham2, 9/9/9 at 09.53
I recently reported a street crime, gave the police the car details and description. As a witness I said I
could also point him out if need be. The police couldn't have been less interested. So from now on nor
am I!
chris berridge, weybridge, 9/9/9, 11.58
Report it to whom exactly? It is no longer possible to contact a local police station even if there is one
and the call centre number involves number crunching before accessing a human being who could be
based anywhere. It's all very well blaming the police for not having a presence anymore, but if they are
spending half their time form filling etc, what chance do they have, I dare say they have targets just as
NHS staff do. We have a very good PCSO but his territory is vast & he is often called away.
Lynn Scoones, Battle, 9/9/9 12.05
Why bother reporting crime? Where I live, North London, the police do not care, most of the "police
stations" are closed except in office hours and they appear to run themselves as a private security force
for those with influence. Lots of sirens everyday, no interest in neighbourhood crime. We all wonder
what they actually are doing apart from rushing back for tea and a fag...
Peter Galbavy, London 9/9/9 12.26
Once, upon seeing some nerds acting pretty violently around a group of parked cars at about 2am, I
called the local police station. First call, the phone rang out. Second call, the phone was picked up and
then sat down on a desk and forgotten about, without anyone actually answering it. And I wasn't about to
phone 999 for something that wasn't an actual emergency. So, nothing was done about it. Kind of
discouraging to be honest.
Impy Impy, Glasgow, 9/9/9 13.31
A few years ago, I witnessed three random assaults by the same person in one night in Brighton town
centre. When I tried reporting it to the police station next day I was told no assault had been reported by
any victims. Even though I had a full description & offered to leave my contact details, they didn't want
to know. Don't even bother trying to report a stolen bike.
Sailing by, Brighton, 9/9/9 14.55
Great timing for this one! Arrived home the other day to see my front door had been tagged with spray
glue and all over the pavement in front of my house so I walked to police station as did not want to get
fobbed over phone. The bloke at the counter asked me to use a free phone to report it so I did while he
chatted up someone, the chap on the phone said a pcso will come to see you. Got home next day, a card
said sorry you were not in at 3pm …
Iain, Aylesbury 9/9/9 18.48
What is the point when the Police don’t even answer a 999 call? There was a big fight right outside my
apartment, they managed to get into my building and were fighting @ 3am. It woke me up, I called 999
and waited FIVE minutes for the Police to actually answer. Did they bother? Of course not. And is it any
wonder that crime figures are 'falling'?
George Williams, London 9/9/9, 19.00
14
I recently tried to report a crime to Wimbledon police station and was told in no uncertain terms by the
officer on the desk that as I was not the victim of the crime it was nothing to do with me and I had no
business reporting it. Won't be bothering again.
Kevin Mitchell, London, 9/9/9, 20.04
We were burgled recently. The thief broke into our garden and stole my husband's bike and then tried the
side door to our house. We heard this at 3am and rang the police. The first thing they asked him on the
phone before even asking what crime had been committed was 'which language would you like to be
spoken to in sir' !!! Says it all really! I know ours was a minor crime but would they have said the same
to me if I'd been raped? PC is taking over real policing.
amanda, peterborough 9/9/9, 21.00
If I saw a crime being committed then I would report it to the police, although anybody who has ever
tried to get through to the police by telephone will know how impossible that is. Having been at a Court
earlier this year and seen someone wanted on a Police warrant there, only to hear him being told to go
away as he was causing a disturbance - by the police - I have severe doubts as to their efficacy....
Inez Collier, 9/9/9, 21.54
I have on two occasions in the last year called the police due to 'youths' looking into people’s houses,
clearly with a view to burglary. On both occasions, the police were at my house in less than 6 minutes.
They performed professionally in both cases, and searched with the use of dogs and a helicopter. They
kept me informed after that on the results and what they planned to do next. I cannot fault them at all. In
my view, go on your own experiences, not what you 'hear' in the press...
Mark, Twyford, 10/9/9, 22.40
When a guy couldn't take no for an answer, he took to harassing me, hanging around, banging on my
door, shouting in the street, terrorising me in the early hrs. I called my local police station who told me to
ring 999. On ringing 999 the operator was highly rude and told me 'I’m not sending an officer out just
because someone is knocking on your door, just go and answer it!' before slamming the phone down on
me. It took months for me to shake this guy off. Reporting crime got me nowhere.
NicNic, Pontefract, 10/9/9, 03.16
I tried to report a crime a while back but the police officer was clearly more interested in filling in dozens
of pieces of information about me. After a time I refused to give any more information about me as he
still hadn't shown any interest in the crime, so I hung up. Now I don't bother.
RegEcted, 10/9/9, 03.27
“I cannot fault the police at all. In my view go on your own experiences, not what you 'hear' in the
press...”
OK, so, my experiences: unwarranted searches because they didn't like the look of me (twice), being
assaulted on the bus, waiting hours for them to arrive then never being contacted back by the detective
who promised to (even a 'sorry we can't help' would have been OK), never seeing any police on the street
at night (living 100m from a police station). I can go on...
Ben, London, 10/9/9, 03.28
I reported on my mobile phone a crime taking place, it was a 'snatch and grab'. The police said they
would come and take my statement - that was over 5 years ago and I am still waiting! So, sadly, my
answer is NO, I would turn the other way.
Jean, North Weald, 10/9/9 08.46
This week I went to a police station to report a crime and was told at 18:40 that we would be seen in
15min as they were just changing shifts. No-one else was waiting and the two operating police officers
were doing nothing behind the counter. The shift change took place at 19:00. At 19:30 we were finally
attended to. I will not give up my evening to report a crime if police officers are happy to neglect their
duties for the last 20min of their shift and deceive the well-meaning public.
Phil, Stockwell, 10/9/9 10.04
15
I witnessed a couple of guys getting ready for a mugging in the town centre here in Huddersfield. One of
them had a packing knife with the blade fully extended. They saw me. I tried to find a police officer, but
couldn't. I ended up running to the local Police station. I expected them to send someone immediately but
they said they could only check on cctv later because they had only one person on cameras. Other times I
have needed police assistance have been equally inadequate. We need more Police.
John, Huddersfield, 10/9/9, 12.44
May I suggest, to Plymouth police, the next time someone runs into the road waving their arms at a
panda car... please stop and ask what’s up, rather than pulling a face and driving on. I was a witness to a
female being attacked in a side street, when I tried to intervene I was chased away by a man with a brick!
Eternal-zen, Plymouth, 10/9/9 12.56
I happened to meet my county Chief Constable, on his "runabout". I said that prevention is better than
cure, (i.e. that a visible presence could cut crime). Now, we have crime at the lowest since I can
remember. Within days, we had police patrols and we finally had bobbies on the beat - finally, Mid
Devon, at last. Crediton is more social, less violent, and the police are recognised anywhere. They are
doing a fantastic job, don't let us down.
Darren Voysey, Crediton, 10/9/9, 20.20
Witness Confident Comment:

Many of the failings identified in this section now come under the clear, concise and
helpful Policing Pledge. Apart from setting out service standards on the initial contact
and response, the Pledge invites complaints about failures to deliver on these by phone,
email or at monthly public meetings.
The Metropolitan Police’s Pledge, for example, states –
• We will always treat you fairly, with dignity and respect, ensuring that everyone has access to
our service at a time that is reasonable and suitable.
• We aim to answer 999 calls within 10 seconds and non-emergency calls within 30 seconds.
We will always tell callers what will happen next and give an estimated time of arrival if
appropriate.
• We will respond immediately to emergencies so that we get to incidents as quickly and safely
as possible – aiming to attend within 12 minutes and much sooner if possible.
• When responding to non-emergency cases involving vulnerable victims and witnesses or
agreed neighbourhood priorities we aim to get to you within 60 minutes. (We use the word
‘vulnerable’ to describe someone who may be at risk because of their age, disability or their
personal circumstances.)
• Alternatively, if appropriate, we will make an appointment to see you at a time that is
convenient to you within 48 hours.
To build and maintain confidence in the Pledge, it is important that forces monitor
compliance with its provisions regularly and publish the results.
16
c) Tales on engaging the public

I would want to report street crime, but there's no point in doing so! All police are useless! Case in point:
I was assaulted by some scrote for daring to ask him to turn his music down on his mobile phone on a
bus. The assault took place in broad daylight, with other people around, and after I got off the bus in a
city centre high street. Once home, I called the police, and because I said that I defended myself during
the assault and hit the assailant, the police said I would be arrested too!
Jon Dracup, Herts, 9/9/9, 11.18
I've intervened to help someone, only to have the 'victim' turn on me as well. I've helped a friend of mine
eject a violent ex-partner from her home (after he'd broken in) and was warned I could be prosecuted for
being too rough. I've shoved a person out of the way of a moving car and been threatened with a law suit.
I'm only 30 and am reasonably well built and I find it hard to even consider intervening any more,
obviously I'd call the police then I'd stand back and wait. And wait. And wait.
BewilderedMark, 9/9/9 11.23
Some years ago I was walking home from the pub and witnessed a man punching a pregnant woman
repeatedly in the stomach. I attempted to stand between the man and woman to calm the situation and
ended up getting a severe beating. The police did NOTHING whatsoever, and even suggested that it was
my own fault for intervening. I walk on by nowadays.
Craig Ruff, Manchester, 9/9/9, 12.31
I've been the guy who intervened in crimes on a number of occasions, including serious assaults and one
particularly serious event where a young woman was being strangled by a man in a park. Gut instinct of
right and wrong compels me to step in to such cases. However, I've yet to experience the UK police
being helpful. On the contrary, my experience is of the police being positively obstructive. My feel is
that as population density rises, people increasingly cower behind anonymity.
Rus, Montreal, 9/9/9 12.39
The problem with 'getting involved' is that even if you escape being stabbed by the criminal, you are
likely to be persecuted by the police. Not more than a fortnight ago one of my colleagues was
interviewed under caution for detaining a bag snatcher. Luckily there was someone sensible in the police
chain of command this time and the whole business was killed off ... but it's not a great incentive. If the
police and CPS stopped harassing people for doing the right thing, that might be a start.
The Colonel, Oxford, 9/9/9 13.04
A girl was being beaten by her boyfriend outside a pub in Hampshire. The guy was very violent so
myself & friend made a citizens arrest & had to hold him down. I knew enough about the law to tell him
we had arrested him under common law. An officer arrived & called us vigilantes! He told us to let the
guy go, even after telling him how violent he was. We let him go & he punched & kicked the officer. We
restrained him again! Vigilantes? I said to the officer, as he rolled on the ground in pain!
Fab Roy, Portsmouth, 9/9/9 13.05
I intervened in a mugging and reported it. I was warned that I may be prosecuted because I'd tried to
push the attacker away. I wasn't charged in the end, the muggers weren't either because I had touched one
of them. So no, I wouldn't intervene again - or if I did, I certainly wouldn't report it to the police.
Jill, Guildford, 9/9/9, 13.13
I would not feel safe to ' have a go' as I could become the victim or be charged with assault. I would
however use my mobile to call for help, photograph the incident if I could do so safely. Unfortunately, I
do not have any faith that the police would respond & attend quickly or that the courts would impose a
stiff sentence if the case even got to court. So many reported incidents never result in charges being
brought. The British justice system is not fit for purpose.
Jobrite, Worthing, 9/9/9 13.46
An elderly lady confronted a lad ripping off a phone box near my home, rang the police, then asked me
to wait till they arrived. They never came but all the bloke’s mates did. I got beaten up & threatened, my
17
house was broken into twice the next week: turned over but nothing taken. I was terrified. Police came
second time, said even if culprits were caught they'd get off & that my mates & I should beat up the
'local lads'. We didn't but someone else did... Crime stopped but I still think it’s wrong.
ArnoldThePenguin, Leeds, 9/9/9 15.56
As for people's misunderstandings that "if you intervene you will be arrested for assault", this is simply
not true. I intervened in a potential mugging, restrained the perpetrator until the police came and they had
nothing but thanks for my effort – yes, I had to go to the station to make a statement but I didn't consider
an hour's inconvenience to myself to be "worth more" than standing by and watching an innocent
member of the public be seriously hurt, or worse. Obviously a lot of people do.
Mick Adams, Leeds, 9/9/9 18.35
Reported crimes before. Been told "no real prospect of a conviction... are you sure you want to bother?".
No wonder our conviction rates are looking good at times! Having done so, I wouldn't waste my time
again. Significant paperwork, and then I got deluged with info from Victim Support when (a) in 2 out of
3 cases I wasn't the victim, and (b) in the one where I was, I clearly wasn't the least bit traumatised by the
experience. Now I sometimes do something myself, but never report it.
Bernie, Bristol, 9/9/9 19.01
It is true that the police do seek to fob you off if you report crime to them - but that only works if you
accept it. I have discovered that pointing out that they are our servants and not vice versa, pointing out
that we pay their salaries, explaining to them that you will continue to complain until they do something
and simply not accepting no for an answer does work. And, yes, I do report street crime and I will
intervene if necessary, and luckily I am still alive to tell the tales.
Sam Slade, Colchester, 9/9/9 20.10
A few years ago, I was assaulted and robbed of £50 at a cash point in London by two yobs. I defended
myself, saved my plastic and downed one of them. The other ran off with my money, I gave chase and he
turned on me with a knife, £50 wasn’t worth dying for so I let him go. I returned to see what had
happened to the other but he had run off. There was a PC just around the corner and when I reported it to
him he told me to walk away as he would have to arrest me if the other guy complained.
Charles Robertson, Oxford, 9/9/9, 21.49
I report street crime constantly. It is usually people using mobile phones while driving or breaking speed
limits. Yesterday I reported an assault on myself in my own street. It will be interesting to see if a
prosecution follows. I am a Neighbourhood Watch co-ordinator so get to see crime reports. I have
noticed that none of the crimes I report appear. I wonder why? Something I intend to take up at the next
opportunity. However, if the assault is not prosecuted I will be leaving.
Colin Whyles, Sudbury, 10/9/9, 04.24
My brother went to someone’s help who was being 'mugged', and found himself being arrested/cautioned
by the police, and the 'muggers' walked away scot free. That’s British justice and policing in our society
today. He will never do it again. The police are not interested in catching real criminals anymore. Our
country is finished. Broken Britain that’s for sure! I'm leaving next year for good, I'm going to live in
France. The French police are fantastic at catching real criminals!
David Jacobs, London, 10/9/9, 05.17
The police are public servants & work for me / you / everyone. If you are not happy with their response,
escalate to their 'manager' and keep going until you get the appropriate attention. Do not accept any
excuses or lack of action.
james turner, 10/9/9, 10.54
My husband and I saw a young person being attacked by a group of lads about 23.30 we were on our
way home from a party. We stopped our car phoned the police my husband jumped from the car and
shouted at the group who shouted abuse but ran away we went up to the young lad on the floor rang an
18
ambulance. The ambulance came NO POLICE. So we rang them back, they had a record of our first
call. When we said that the gang of cowards had run away they LOST interest.
Trish, Chester, 10/9/9, 11.03
In the past I have, and on each occasion the police have not responded. Worst example was last winter
when we had a few inches of snow on the ground, I saw one brave elderly man being beaten up by our
local gang of feral youths for having the temerity to ask them to stop throwing snowballs at him. I dialled
999, explained the situation. The response from the controller was...we are very busy because of the
snow and besides it sounds like he started it. I haven't respected the police since.
Steve Martin, 10/9/9, 13.38
My husband intervened when he saw a couple being attacked by a gang, and he was arrested and locked
up for 28 hours until the couple regained consciousness and told the police that without my hubby & his
friends, they'd be dead. Released with no apology! However, if you are a victim of crime, please report
it. If we fail to report these incidents, then the reported crime figures improve, police budgets are cut, and
we lose even more officers. We also need to combat the bureaucracy within the law.
Linda, Essex, 10/9/9, 14.19

One recurring issue in these HYS posts (and also from the student survey) is that the
police do not welcome – and in some cases threaten to or do arrest – engaged or active
citizens.
While in the recent past police forces have given out the message that people should do
no more than call 999 when they witness street crime, this message is now changing. Sir
Paul Stephenson, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, said on 20 January 2010 that
“I have worried on occasions that we have got the advice slightly wrong. People have to make
reasonable judgments, but actively discouraging people from being active citizens seems to me
to be wrong. Our first response should not be to discourage people from doing it. It should be to
applaud their bravery and courage. Our first response should be to express gratitude that we
have got citizens who would do that thing."
This is an important and welcome signal - not only to the public but to those who may
commit street crime. We recommend that ACPO and Chief Constables of other forces
should endorse it to the officers they lead and the communities they serve. The Director
of Public Prosecutions should also make clear his support for active citizens.
19
d) Feedback & follow -up

The police have responded twice to calls I have made to them; I saw the police cars zooming past my
house before I'd even ended the call to the control room. And then I had a courtesy call back from the
control room to give me an update and tell me what the Police had done to resolve the situations. No
complaints from me about Staffordshire Police, and whilst I wouldn't tackle street crime myself, I would
happily take a quick photo on my phone from a safe distance, then call the Police.
soo, Staffs, 9/9/9, 11.43
I phoned the police to report a gang of youths displaying weapons, including a Samurai sword, in the
street near my house. By the time the police arrived, I was grateful they had moved further down as the
police car arrived - at my house - with its blue light on and siren going. They then came to my door for a
statement. The youths were still in sight but too far away to think it was about them so we were not
targeted by them later. By the time the PCs left me the group had gone. Never again.
Adrian Swall, 9/9/9 15.11
I have positive and negative experience from reporting crimes and think that although something rarely
gets done it's still our duty to report. I have been mugged and reported crimes I have witnessed and
heard nothing from the Police on the outcome from this. I have also reported a neighbour when truly
awful screams were heard and it turned out to be assault for which they received a heavy sentence and I
was well informed. Information is key and we could use more feedback from Police.
T, Derby, 9/9/9, 18.00
I often report what I believe to be a crime taking place but I have only once received any feedback from
the Police. The lack of any feedback leads me to believe that I have been wasting my time or that the
crime was not proceeded with, as no witness statements were taken. I have followed up the calls with
requests for information regarding the outcome and rudely been told to mind my own business. If
members of the public received acknowledgement for their contributions maybe more would help.
Eddie earl, 9/9/9, 23.16
When living in Notting Hill a while ago, I called to report two suspicious blokes in the street outside,
casing a boarded-up building. The police arrived, the blokes scarpered and you know what the coppers
did ? - walked straight up to my door and knocked - gosh, I wonder who called them out - shame the
entire street (more importantly, any mates of the dodgy guys) then knew I was the one that called. Well
done the Met - the Police generally mess up like this in my experience, I avoid them.
Chris Chris, 10/9/9, 08.31
When I was stabbed, the guy skipped bail and the police didn't even bother to call me to tell me about it.
I've had 4 other incidents during my life where the police have basically not been interested. So the track
record has left me feeling that no, it's not worth the bother calling them.
paul, London, 10/9/9, 09.49
I think what people don’t realise is that when you witness a crime, you go into a complete state of shock
because you cannot believe what you are seeing and your brain stops registering. I always intended to
intervene or report a crime I saw, but when it happened, I was so stunned and couldn’t remember a thing.
On another occasion when I did report it, a serious road rage incident that got violent, called the police
with the perpetrators registration number, said they would call back and never did.
WE.Coyote, London, 10/9/9, 13.04
I was the victim of a supermarket raid a few years ago. As the only assistant in the shop, I witnessed the
man jumping over the counter and raiding the till. Everything was caught on CCTV. The shop manager
saw this unfolding from the cctv screen in the back office and called the police. They turned up and took
some fingerprints from the till. Did they interview me? No! Was I contacted again after the incident?
Yes! With a letter from Victim Support! Enough said.
Angela, leeds, 10/9/9 13.32
Since 2004, my husband and I have reported the following to the police: my husband being mugged,
someone peeking through our bathroom window at night, our car being keyed, and someone parking on
20
the pavement on a blind corner. The only crime that we ever heard anything about was the parking, when
it was dealt with by a PCSO within 24 hours and that was when we moved to a nicer area. I think the
police are overworked but it doesn't improve your feeling of personal safety when you hear nothing back.
Pam, Oxfordshire, 10/9/9, 14.37
Last week, I dialled 999 when I saw a women being threatened and on the verge of physical assault by 4
men in the centre of Leeds. A patrol was sent, and located the men, but could not find the female; I was
contacted later and thanked by the local constabulary, who were grateful I'd reported the incident, but
could do nothing as the victim didn't come forward or make a complaint. I don’t feel my time was
wasted, and would do the same again without a second thought.
Stu Emerson, Leeds, 10/9/9, 15.16

These posts suggest – not surprisingly - that when officers thank a witness for their
assistance, this has a positive effect on the individual’s willingness to engage again and
their satisfaction with the police. When the Policing Pledge is reviewed, it should provide
that officers should aim to thank witnesses, victims and members of the public.
As to follow-up action, while the Policing Pledge provides that victims will be offered
monthly updates on the case, nothing similar is promised to witnesses. The Witness
Internet Map which we will pilot for violent street crimes in Hackney & Islington will offer
a simple way in which the police can update progress on a case and thank witnesses and
the public for their help. We ask that the Metropolitan Police encourage its officers to use
the pilot to provide the public with such information to show the value of engaging as a
witness.
21
e) Police conduct
My brother and I were assaulted by a gang of youths on a pathway. We both split up and ran. When I
called 999 it was like phoning some call centre in India with the operator asking me questions, he didn't
seem to know the local area. He advised me to run to the local main police station - which I did. When I
got there the counter was unmanned and I spoke to some civ who scribbled a note down on paper. They
didn’t even go to check if the gang had assaulted more people?!?! Waste of time.
Gareth O'Neill, Glasgow, 9/9/9, 11.13
I have reported crimes in the past. If you are lucky, a police person turns up 48 hours later and then
wants a detailed, second-by-second account of something which was over in moments. They grill you as
if you were the culprit, produce masses of paper, and in the end nothing appears to happen; certainly
there never seems to be any court appearance involved. Until we start hitting criminals and not victims
and witnesses, people will not come forward. Why lose hours and hours for nothing?
Michael Lloyd, Wigan, 9/9/9 11.55
There's a lot of bashing of the police on here but to be fair I’ve seen a HUGE increase in police presence
over the past couple of years. Random teams with dogs at the tube station (Ealing) checking for knives,
or unmarked cars at 2am pulling us over to make sure we weren't up to mischief. When I was mugged,
the police searched the area in cars for the culprits (they even took me with them) and then showed me
pics of known offenders. The guy was later sentenced to a youth prison.
mike, London, 9/9/9, 12.16
I was mugged about a year ago. My friend and I were both attacked walking home. We were split up. He
arrived home first and called the police immediately; Told them that he had been robbed at knife point
and he knew I had been attacked but didn't know where I was! He suspected I was dead or dying! It took
3 days for the police to show up - only after I got a local news reporter involved - and even then nothing
was done beyond taking statements. What is the point in reporting crime?!
Tom Carney, Middlesborough, 9/9/9 12.54
I would, I have, and I will again if I have to, the only problem is when dealing with the police, you are
made to feel like the criminal! — very paranoid bunch of individuals they are.
amdc101, 9/9/9, 13.02
Probably not now. Given that I was walking to work, hauled off the street and arrested because in the
police's eyes I bore a scant resemblance to someone they were looking for; despite my protestations of
innocence, the zeal with which they went about the arrest was frightening. Did they have a picture of the
criminal with them? No. 5 hours in a cell for being completely and utterly innocent. If this is what passes
for modern day policing then is it any wonder we walk on by.
What have we done to deserve this? 9/9/9 13.24
I was mugged a couple of weeks back. Police were called and turned up after TWO AND A HALF
HOURS! Despite the person being known, the police said that they couldn't/wouldn't act. Yes I not only
reported it but made a complaint to the IPPC over the lack of police action and have now involved my
MP. Ignoring it and putting up with it only encourages the police to do nothing.
Dave, Warminster, 9/9/9, 13.33
Funny, I was actually a victim of street crime just yesterday, along with another man older than me. The
other man was covered in blood. I wasn't bleeding and perhaps that’s why people didn’t seem bothered
by my requests and shocked face. The police arrived and a member of public managed to trap the
attacker on bike. The attacker was arrested and now hopefully he'll be put away. So in my experience the
police (and ambulance) were very efficient with the case.
Adrian Hall, Newcastle upon Tyne , 9/9/9, 16.34
The police are totally useless in cases of street crime. My 16 year old daughter was robbed of her mobile
phone outside a busy rail station in London. No one offered to intervene at all. The station is littered with
22
cctv and yet the police refused to access any of the images due to lack of priority and resources. The
myth that cctv's are there for our protection is exactly that......a myth.
marco Ferrari, streatham, 9/9/9, 17.12
In the past, I have reported crimes I have seen in progress but will never do it again due to the police
response. The time they take to respond, sometimes days, is better than how they have dealt with the
situation when they have arrived. The last straw was when a paedophile walked free, after a family
member who was a witness to an action at a park turned up in court, only for it to be thrown out because
the police officers did not turn up to give evidence!
Dee, London, 9/9/9 17.35
To those who say the police do nothing - a few years ago I was assaulted (facial fractures) by a man I
didn't know - I'm 5ft3, female and was 21 at the time. A policewoman took the call, gave chase, tackled
and arrested him. Hooray for the police!
Thought Pattern, Bucks, 9/9/9, 20.11
The last call on my mobile phone is '999', sent after witnessing two boys chuck a lit match into an old
abandoned shop last night. Good thing I did too, the resulting blaze meant that the fire brigade were busy
with it from 9pm until 3am. Witness statements taken, a thank you from the police and a 'we will contact
you if we need you for anything'. What is the problem?
Alex, England, 9/9/9, 20.28
I have 70+ years experience. In that time I have had a number of contacts with the police. Sadly I have
learnt to become ever more cautious when dealing with them. They have a difficult job to do and some
do it well and some badly, they are after all human. I would report a crime. I would think long and hard
about every word I said to the police - bitter experience has taught me that they can turn on the innocent
party.
Mike Hodder, Dorchester, 9/9/9, 20.43
My husband was stopped by 2 men who demanded his wallet. He told them no and wouldn’t let them
take it. When they ran off, 2 police that had seen the whole thing asked why he hadn’t handed it over.
They made no arrests! My brother was threatened with a knife and was told that no crime had been
committed as he wasn’t actually stabbed! I have reported crime in the past and been told that because I
am not police, they can’t prove it and no action taken. Yes I still tell the police so I don’t do some bad
myself.
Turtleglos, 9/9/9, 20.59
Even if you report a crime in progress, and the police do respond, they defeat the object by making as
much noise as possible on approach with lights a-flashing. Criminals simply scarper. Daft I call it!
Ian Brameld, Bushey, 9/9/9, 21.58
I used to. I witnessed a chap break the nose of some poor guy who didn't know that the nose-breaker had
special rules on parking outside his house that only he knew about. It took the Police 2 months to come
to me and the nose-breaker's neighbour for a statement. Nose-breaker stopped outside my house and
threatened me while his wife sat in their car. The nose-breaker eventually got 160 hours community
service…..As I said; I used to.
Lord Zakspade of Elbonia, 10/9/9, 08.12
My Brother was sitting in his car at lunch yesterday at his work car park (which is next to a primary
school), when two black people tried to hijack it. They threatened him with a crowbar or knife or
something (Luckily his car auto locks), so he drove away. He reported it to the police who basically told
him "This is not that common" and that "There wasn't a lot they could do about it!” What is the point of
reporting when they do nothing about it. They let the criminals get away all the time.
Oliver, Sudbury, 10/9/9, 08:31
23
Perhaps if the police actually took crime reports seriously, the public may be more inclined to act? I've
lost count the amount of times I've reported crimes to the police over the last few years. Once, I
witnessed a gang of young men assaulting a man on a bus who was with his partner. I rang the police
immediately, told them the amount of people, accurate descriptions, timings, location, and then followed
them discreetly. Called the police again, they never arrived. They did "nothing".
Jude Mahoney 10/9/9 10.26
I was attacked in November 2007 by a crew in West London because I was on their turf. People in the
houses could see what was happening and chose to watch instead of calling the police or an ambulance to
help. 5 months later, I was told to go to a police station in Acton Town and was asked many questions,
looked through many pictures. My mum left the room with one of the Det. he turned to my mum and
said.. did you ever think your son could be lying. After that day I never heard from them. Justice?
Jake Young, London, 10/9/9, 10.50
Last weekend I witnessed two teenagers fighting in the streets one of them pulled a knife. I instantly
reported this. The police responded diligently. The 2 PC’s called me they had caught the offender at his
own home only to be protected by his parents claiming he had been home all day. They seemed deflated
and let down by society. Stop police bashing, parents are the main influence in a person’s life. If we had
a society that had respect and discipline we wouldn’t be asking this question.
Steve, London N1, 10/9/9 11:28 UK
I am from abroad and was held up at knifepoint in the city centre whilst sitting in a taxi. I went to the
police and they said they couldn't do anything about it. Well what's the point of the Police force then?
Ridiculous! No wonder England is a criminal Paradise. Get your act together Police! Or go get jobs as
street cleaners. The place needs a clean!
M Richard, Birmingham, 10/9/9, 12.06
Despite being a law abiding citizen with no history of any legal trouble, my experiences with the police
have left me wanting as little contact with them as possible - therefore I am less inclined to report street
crime than I might otherwise be. On the occasion when I did report a crime against me (vehicle break-
in), they did not even bother turning up. How do otherwise ordinary people suddenly become so
arrogant, ignorant and rude the moment they put their police uniform on?
Lee, London, 10/9/9 13.22
I was the only customer in a shop when it was held up at gunpoint. The police came, but never bothered
in even taking a statement from me. I was terrified, not to mention horrified at the lack of urgency or
support. However, when my car got broken into, I was given the number for victim support counselling,
a follow-up call and an incident number! There seems to be no sense of proportion and a huge amount of
apathy. Reform is urgently needed - remove targets and bring back beat bobbies.
Kate, Halesowen, 10/9/9, 13.43
My wife and I reported an attack on a young lady in the early hours of last Saturday morning. She was
left lying on the pavement with a nasty head injury having been attacked (by her ex-partner as it turns
out). The police told us they would only come if she wanted them to. She said she would make a
statement if they came so we told them. They never came. The frightening thing is seeing what this man
was capable of and it being brushed under the carpet and going unpunished – ridiculous.
Gerry, London, 10/9/9 14.27
I was assaulted in a busy street in Stoke. Had my teeth broken, £300+ in dental costs and nearly lost my
job. Found out who the young man was and told the police. They have so far done nothing. I have since
visited the police station twice, where I was treated like a criminal myself by the officer in charge of my
case. 7 months have now gone by and nothing. I know next time I won’t even bother calling the police as
they just don’t care.
Ant Perry, Stoke, 10/9/9, 14.37
24
I was attacked a few weeks ago by 5 youths when I was out. I suffered heavy concussion, a fractured
skull and a fractured cheekbone. I was unconscious; I had blood gushing out of the back of my head and
my nose. The policewoman on duty didn't bother to log the incident as a crime because she wasn't sure I
had been attacked (she thought I could have fallen over drunk). The incident was reported to the IPCC
and an investigation was launched whereby critical CCTV has "gone missing".
Ian, Lancs, 10/9/9, 14.41
When I saw a fight break out between 4 young men I immediately went to where the police themselves
were on "lookout" not 2 minutes walk away, they asked me what was going on, how many there we and
where they were. They then radioed this in and sat in their car, when asked why they weren't going
anywhere, they said "oh someone else from the station will handle it, we'll just stay here". Since then I
just break up the fights myself, I do the councils work for them why not the police too?
John Knight, Neath, 10/9/9, 16.11

In the context of street crimes, these posts suggest that whether the individual is a victim
or a witness, a critical issue for their satisfaction with the police handling of the case is
whether the officers engaged with them on human terms.
While we welcome the statement in the Policing Pledge that “we will always treat you
with dignity and respect”, we believe that both the law abiding public and criminals
expect the police to treat suspects and defendants with a lesser degree of dignity and
respect than they should show witnesses, victims and members of the public.
25
f) Courts, crim es and punishm ents

People used to (1970s) get involved. They would go to court as witnesses, sometimes as much as a year
later, not being allowed to look at their original statements to refresh memory. Of course they wouldn't
remember all of the details so they would get ripped up for tissue paper by defence lawyers. Perhaps it’s
not the 'willingness to get involved' that should be examined but our legal system. It seems to protect the
defendant not anyone else, and is a money-making machine for lawyers.
Paul Byrne, 9/9/9 08.43
I think I would report a crime and I would like to think I would intervene if I saw someone being
attacked but part of me advises caution, too many reports of members of the public who have done so
being either targeted by the villains themselves or being successfully sued/arrested for assaulting the
villains who then seem to get off scot free. If the muggers included kids, no way, too ferral and too
many rights.
Dora Jar, Staffordshire, 9/9/9, 09.05
I intervened in an attack I heard outside my house, when I looked out the victim was already on the
ground. I dialled 999 and ran out. He was unconscious and I tried my best to save him. I didn't even think
of the perpetrators being there, my first thought was to help a fellow human being. I ended up being a
murder witness at Crown Court as he sadly died due to serious head injuries (the 2nd worst event I've
lived through barring this). Would I do it again? In a heartbeat - and I'm a WOMAN!
Anonymous Lady, The North, 9/9/9 11.19
The real thieves in any street crime are the lawyers who make a good living out of it. It's laughable that
an alleged mugger who might have stolen a few pounds, can go on to generate hundreds if not thousands
of pounds of income for the lawyers, just by fighting the case. It is in the interest of lawyers to tie the
whole system up in knots. While that remains the case, there is not much point in intervening in street
crime - though most of us would, out of sheer concern for the victim.
Duncan Miller 9/9/9 12.56
Crime: beating someone up so badly that they are permanently blinded during an unprovoked attack.
Time served: 1 year. This happened in Norfolk and is just an example. Imagine what they would have
done to someone trying to intervene, and ask yourself whether the attacker's sentence would have been
any greater. While people should intervene more, there needs to be a sense that the courts will actually
punish criminals.
Will, 9/9/9 13.02
I may report it, but I will not be a witness. After being used and abused by the justice system once, I will
never be a witness again. After turning up 5 times at court, for the defendant never to turn up at any of
them, I was threatened with arrest if I refused to turn up for the 6th time. The 6th time was during a final
year uni exam. He turned up on attempt 7, and I was told my address would NOT be read out in court.
Sadly, it was, and all his pals in the gallery took note...
Kyle Gordon, Glasgow, 9/9/9 13.16
"Would you report street crime?" What difference would it make? The criminal would likely be given
the kid glove treatment & given a light sentence. Additionally, he or she may be carrying a weapon
considering this ban isn't enforced seriously enough. And if the criminals decided to exact revenge on
the witness, well, that would also be likely punishable by a light sentence too. So what's the point of a
citizen taking a stand & reporting a crime, when the system doesn't back them up?
Muhammad Zaman, 9/9/9 14.00
My brother was nearly beaten to death outside a club. Hit with a bar over the head and kicked in the face.
He actually swallowed his tongue and was saved by his mate. The witnesses were intimidated into
retracting their statements. The dolite (benefit-claiming) scumbags got off and left through the same door
as my brother. They all stood in front of his car with him sat in it and laughed. My brother is a middle
class lad - not any kind of scrote (useless person). Britain is dying a slow but sure death.
Richard Buttmungous, 9/9/9 14.51
26
I reported a crime that happened to me. I spent about 6 hours at the station and being dragged around
where it happened to explain what happened. It took the police 3 months to arrest the person despite
knowing his address. Anyway...it was sent to the courts. Original trial date was set for July but this was
postponed about 4-6 times and eventually went ahead in November, only to be thrown out by
prosecution due to "lack of evidence" just before the trial was to start. Thanks for the stress CPS.
Baker, Oldham, 9/9/9 17.20
Of course. I have also chased muggers while other passers-by watched. Sadly, I was unable to catch them
but I didn't give it a second thought. Unlike most people, it seems, I genuinely care for my fellow human
beings and if I have to take a risk to give that care then so be it. The law has a lot to answer for though. A
good friend of mine was mugged by three youths last year. They sprayed CS gas into his face before
stealing from him and were simply tagged for their trouble - hardly justice.
Brendan MacLean, Birmingham 9/9/9 18.04
The current court system does not encourage witnesses to come forward. A witness makes a statement to
the police and then many months later is expected to attend court often having forgotten the event or
having to travel miles to attend. Once there, then has to face a complete grilling in the witness box by a
barrister or lawyer who simply wants to discredit what evidence that person may have to give. Then if
the defendant is found guilty the punishment is so menial it’s all been a waste of time.
John Lumbard, 9/9/9 18.55
I currently have three jobs. I'm a Probation Officer two and a half days per week, A Community Service
Supervisor one day per week and I work with adults with learning difficulties in a care home one or two
days per week. All of those jobs would be destroyed if I were to be charged with a criminal offence. No
way in the world I'm getting involved with anything that has the remotest chance of getting me in
court....and I'm a nice and caring person.
Mr Bungy, Sedgley, 9/9/9 22.01
I would report it but the hassle associated with the after effects is worrying. I have reported a crime in
progress before and the criminal got caught, I then had to go to the police station, spend an hour giving
statements and then worrying if the yob gets let off, if he will come back and have a go at me or my
family. You see the problem is criminals have more rights then the 'innocent' and they can see your
details, the law does not protect those who help.... And that's the big problem.
Bob Smith, London 9/9/9 22.45
One Fightday night, I witnessed a drunk attempt to throw the owner of a pizza restaurant through a
window after battering him severely. I came forward when the police arrived, gave my name and address
and stated that I would be willing to be a witness. I gave a statement and was told that I would be
contacted. 3 months later I'm asked to attend court. The accused didn't turn up. Nor did he turn up the
second time. He was given 200 hrs community service in absentia. What's the point?
WisePranker McNulty, Crawley, 10/9/9, 09.23
I witnessed a violent assault and gave a statement. I was prepared to go to court and be a witness, but due
to police incompetence the prosecution was not processed within the 6 month limit so the case was
dropped. The police just aren't interested - if you speak to any of them about the levels of violent crime
they'll tell you that the long term trend is down but it's only our "perception" that crime is rising,
seasonally adjusted figures are down etc - they can spin as well as any politician!
Fred Bigley, Sheffield , 10/9/9, 09.55
I was once a victim of a serious assault many years ago, soon after leaving a club. If it had not been for a
young nurse stepping off a bus, tending to me in the gutter, with my life blood flowing from a serious
head wound inflicted by a known pathological killer, I would have been at least his third 'notch'.
Fortunately, because of previous crimes, where he WAS reported I didn’t even have to go to court. This
helped me recover, sooner. USE THAT MOBILE !! It could YOU next time.
Socialeper, Middlesborough, 10/9/9 10.04
27
Beyond the normal diffusion-of-responsibility ("someone else will do it") or fear the crims will turn on
them (a totally valid argument in this day and age), government target-setting, law-fudging and human-
rights busybodying has crippled willingness to report. The police can only really uphold the law. Most
of the time their hands are tied, and the perception that victims/witnesses are treated like suspects by that
very law is far from unjustified. So, unless I was a victim, no, I wouldn't.
Mark, Barnsley, 10/9/9 11.21
I cannot believe the attitude of people on this comment. If there was a mugging or attack where I was, of
course I would report it - Next Time It Could Be YOU! But if you are called as a witness to that crime,
you should be fully compensated for your Loss of Earnings, Food & Travel whether the person was
found guilty or not. I think this has an impact on people reporting crime of this level - it seems you report
it at your own cost.
Portlandbill, Lancaster, 10/9/9 12.47
Why should I put myself at risk of death, reprisal or arrest so I can be grilled by a sleazy lawyer
bankrolled by legal aid trying to weasel their scumbag client out of yet another in a long line of
convictions? Criminals only fear other criminals or well-protected members of the public. They don't
fear the law whatsoever, it's simply an occasional inconvenience that their state-funded lawyer will
ensure they can circumvent.
RolryRoly 10/9/9 13.19
Not enough space here to tell the full story, I witnessed a serious assault and reported it...What followed
was over a year of multiple trips to court, witness intimidation upon me to withdraw my statement, me
telling the police about it and them basically saying "don’t worry you'll be ok they wont do anything to
you". I went to court in the end, gave my evidence etc, but the case was dropped! Why? Because another
witness was successfully intimidated into not giving evidence in court. Not good.
Ed, Newcastle, 10/9/9 14.40
Ultimately, what is the point? If you reported witnessing an assault, you would have to go through the
hassle of dealing with the Police and Courts, both of whom view the public as dopes, and treat them with
utter contempt. You may be targeted for abuse/threats by the accused or his/her friends etc. All this, just
for them to be given community service, or an £80 fine. Again, what is the point? I genuinely fail to see
one in the above process.
G Wright, Glasgow, 10/9/9 16.45
Several years ago I witnessed a violent unprovoked attack on two innocent young men, in fact I
administered basic first aid until the medics arrived. It ended up in court, and turned into a nightmare,
adjourned several times, rude and blase police officers, pathetic court liaison officers who did not instil
me with any confidence whatsoever. And when the case was eventually heard, I was made to feel like the
criminal, whilst the perpetrators sniggered in the corner. Would I do it again? Never!.
Rourkes Drifter, Abertawe, 10/9/9 22.46

In fixing court hearings, there is no silver bullet because the availability of many people
will be involved. We believe that if some basic legal help is available for victims and
witnesses, their interest will be properly considered and they will have more confidence
that this is the case. Additionally, we repeat our recommendation from the Perils of
Indifference that contemporaneous video statements made by witnesses should be
admissible as evidence in chief. This will reduce hassle, save time and money and
facilitate the administration of justice.
28
g) W hy bother?
The law always seems to be on the side of the criminals and their "human rights". Those "having a go"
and the victims of street crime often end up worse off than those committing the crimes. Whilst
Government, the Judiciary and Constabulary remain limp wristed and soft on such crime, the law abiding
of us won't get involved. Last year I saw a crying lost boy in a museum. I wouldn't have gone anywhere
near him if my wife hadn't been with me: I could have been considered a paedophile.
Britain's Ruined 9/9/9 09:02
The reason why people "walk on by" is due to the stupid attitude of the police. When "have a go heroes"
wade in to tackle violent burglars, muggers and the like, they are more often than not arrested and
charged with causing harm to the criminals, whereas the latter get a slap on the wrist. Case in
Crowthorne a few weeks ago when a father waded in outside his house to protect his son from having his
head stamped on by a gang of feral youths. The father was arrested. Stupid or what!
Britain's Ruined 9/9/9 08.56
Walk on by? People 'walk on by' because they are scared of the consequences. Imagine the hell of being
in court charged with assault for trying to make a citizen's arrest of some scumbag mugger because
you've infringed on his human rights? Remember the farmer Tony Martin who was tormented endlessly
by thieves and jailed for 5 years for killing a serial burglar with over 125 previous convictions? When
the law protects villains more than innocents, then people will always 'walk on by.'
Mike Hunts 9/9/9 09.31
In a nation where common sense policing and decision making are extinct WHY should we help the
police, they no longer help the community they TARGET the community. You don’t get common sense
being applied to minor traffic infringements you just get nailed with fines and points. Fight off a mugger
and YOU face arrest for daring to defend yourself. Attend a public protest and face being kettled for 6
hours, even photographing an officer overreacting leads to trouble. The police cast the community aside.
Steve Day 9/9/9 08:49
No, not any more, 25 years ago I would not have hesitated to call the Police or to step in to help, but not
now, the police have lost the trust of the public, all too often it’s the victim of crime, or those trying to
prevent a crime who get arrested. Common sense policing no longer exists they gave away all of their
decision making to the CPS, so now you see the police arresting anyone and everyone at an incident.
The community bobby has been replaced by a guy in black with targets to reach.
Steve Day 9/9/9 08.43
If the police were actually out on the streets instead of cowering behind bushes trying to catch people
creeping over the speed limit on their way to work, then they wouldn't need us to do their job for them.
Alice Klahr, 9/9/9 10.07
NuLab's 'tough on crime tough on the causes of crime' statement is no more than just weasel words from
a weasel shower. We have a judicial system so devoid of reality thanks to yet more loony left panderings
to criminals and nothing for the victims of crime. The police are forced to meet 'targets' to satisfy the
Home Office propaganda machine so what difference will it make reporting street crime? Are the police
going to suddenly jump in their patrol cars to help me out? Not in NuLab's UK...
Apocalypse Clown 9/9/9 11.31
I've intervened to help someone only to have the 'victim' turn on me as well. I've helped a friend of mine
eject a violent ex-partner from her home (after he'd broken in) and was warned I could be prosecuted for
being too rough. I've shoved a person out of the way of a moving car and been threatened with a law suit.
I'm only 30 and am reasonably well built and I find it hard to even consider intervening any more,
obviously I'd call the police then I'd stand back and wait. And wait. And wait.
[BewilderedMark] 9/9/9 11.23
What's the point? Effective policing has been destroyed by this government.
Dorloukie Fienusess 9/9/9 08.47
29
Nobody trusts the Police anymore. We are all scared of getting involved for fear of reprisals. We see
criminals getting away with crimes through failings in the system of prosecution. Innocent people are
being criminalised in an arbitrary fashion by this government. Is it any wonder that we don't want to be
involved in crime prevention when we are at risk of either being charged with crimes or targeted by the
criminals if we get involved.
[dkintheuk] 9/9/9 11.30
Your instinct would be to intervene BUT the laws in this country let the police arrest everyone
concerned. Once in custody it only takes a set of coincidences for you to be charged for anything the
police can come up to improve their "targets". Even if the CPS throws out the case your details, DNA
and anything else the police want to keep on you remain. If you are a person who needs a CRB to work-
forget it your troubles will just be beginning. So would I help? No way - its a nightmare waiting to
happen.
Steve Grant 9/9/9 11.28
I suspect that most onlookers are rightly fearful of confronting antagonists, who might be carrying
knives, and will probably be let off with a warning or suspended sentence anyway. If the police and the
courts were to come down like a ton of bricks on offenders, and corporal punishment were to be restored,
it would make them think twice about repeat offences. We should bring back the birch, and use it;
criminals are only too eager to inflict injury on others. An eye for an eye, I say.
milvusvestal, Ramsey 9/9/9 11.32
What's the point!! Whenever you contact the police, they do not care, and if they do come out (usually
days later), it’s too late to do anything! The UK police are a joke and full of the wrong people, a harder
and more deeply vetted police officer is what is required, not just take any old body to fill a job!!!
MAC, Surrey 9/9/9 11.31

The posts in this section all received over 100 recommendations. While they reflect
opinions that were widely shared, they cannot be taken to be the most popular or
majority views from the debate. This is because (a) only registered users could
recommend posts, and (b) the times that these recommended posts came in suggested
that the recommendation facility was prone to being mobbed or to manipulation.
Of the nine registered users who made one or more of the above comments, a review of
their other posts indicates that three support or sympathise with the BNP. Despite that,
several posters said that this HYS debate had not been dominated by the usual anti-New
Labour, anti-immigration, and anti-human rights lobby. Two of these were:
I was worried for a while there, I thought that there could be a HYS where the first 'recommended' page
didn't have someone who blames New Labour for all of the worlds problems. Good number of people
taking any cheap shot at the police they can think of.
Richard, Canterbury, 9/9/9 23.02
People these days are happy to see street crime being committed as long as it is not on them. How
different it would be if they were the victim. I am amazed that there were not more people blaming the
government, the immigrants and the economy, which is the norm these days on HYS. Yes I would and do
report street crime, and I would not think twice about helping someone and apprehending the perpetrator,
as I would hope someone would do for me in the same situation.
andrew connery, london, 10/9/9 08.16
Since March 2010, the BBC has dropped the facility to recommend posts from HYS.
30
h) Confident w itnesses
Yes! I would! People need to stop being fearful. We have been disbanded and forced to become insular.
When we take on bad behaviour, we no longer feel we're doing it for everyone as no-one else around you
will be prepared to step in due to fear. Where has the country of people, whom I used to look up to as a
youngster, gone to? People have been scared into this thought pattern. Time to wake up and realise that
if your fellow citizen needs help, you SHOULD give it. Where has humanity gone?
eL dIRT 9/9/9 11.58
I have reported things in the past, but nothing came out of it. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't report
things in the future!! Crimes usually go unsolved because of lack of evidence, if more people who saw
things told the police there’d be more evidence!!! Admittedly I'd think twice about interfering in a fight
between 4 people, but I'd be willing to give the police a statement afterwards. You don't have to be
Batman to help the police, just being an eyewitness can help solve the crime.
Colin Walker, Cardiff, 9/9/9 12.20
Everyday these pages are full of people complaining that the government is taking away our rights to
actually choose what to do for ourselves. And yet this particular topic has people up in arms because the
police aren't on the streets intervening in every crime. The question "why should we intervene when the
police don't care" is diabolical. You should act according to your own moral compass. If you don't
intervene because of a fear of the consequences against you that is your fault alone.
Ashley, Leeds, 9/9/9 12.23
I understand why people are scared to intervene. Having done so myself in the past, you have to weigh
up the situation and make a quick decision on what to do (I don't regret my intervention). However, it
seems to me that criminals (petty or otherwise) know that everyone will look the other way. If there is a
crime on a bus, all of a sudden the passengers find there is something very interesting out the window!
As a society, if we don't do anything, we can't complain when it gets worse.
Kara Smith, 9/9/9 13.13
It depends on how quickly and calmly I can react. Ideally I note time, place and have a photo using a
mobile phone of the incident. And recall the other witnesses if any and then ring for police. Which is a
lot to remember. On my own I am not sure how I would react but if others joined in then so would I and
hope it did not get out of hand which is just as bad as being attacked yourself. In the past there were
fewer street attacks because bystanders always moved in to prevent them.
Simon G, London SW9, 9/9/9, 13.16
Every time!! If we abandon our civic duty just because the police fail to respond in the way you expect,
the criminal has won - again! Street gangs, the main perpetrators of street crime, have flourished and
exercise total control over their "patches". They neither fear nor respect the law. If we, the general
public, fail to do anything, these "patches" will grow and society will be in danger of reverting to a
feudal tribal system where thuggery and violence rules.
David (Soapbox), East Whitburn, 9/9/9 13.24
I had to step in when a young man was accosting an OAP in a major Post Office. I was in the queue and
far away, every one stood around and watched, young and old! A lot of people here seem to give the
impression they would not give any help, and therefore would not want any help in a similar situation,
yes!? Community spirit is dying in this country! Blaming NuLabor and having more police would not
eradicate this problem. Set an example, it might make any perpetrators think twice.
Smg1965, Forest Row 9/9/9 13.29
I understand why some may be reluctant to get involved physically, but not to report a crime because you
don’t think the Police will do anything or you’re scared of going to court is bonkers. They are excuses
not reasons. Granted, some witnesses who go to court may get threats etc, but this is not the films and
that is exceptionally rare when compared to how many go to court. Let us just hope it isn't you getting
mugged because you don’t deserve to be helped unless you're prepared to help others.
Atomtrasher, Lowestoft, 9/9/9 14.38
31
A resounding yes! to that. There's too much "none of my business" indifference and then probably the
same people whinge about street crime being on the increase, an increase which probably is caused by
our collective cowardice and fear. All that's needed is that when a mugging or something like that
happens, simply draw everyone’s attention to it, these spineless bullies soon scarper when they are
confronted by a group of angry people prepared to stand up to their unacceptable behaviour.
bakunin-was-right, Cynicopolis, 9/9/9, 14.50
People, you can’t have it both ways, either you want to get involved and help the police to achieve a
much higher chance of catching the bad guys or you can take your misguided unsubstantiated ideas that
the police are not interested and not bother, just don’t start complaining then that the police do nothing!
There is no magic crystal ball to help catch criminals, police need evidence and the best evidence is still
from people willing to stand up against the criminals and go to court.
Steve, Southampton, 9/9/9 15.00
How anybody could witness someone being mugged or attacked, and merely look away and not even
bother to phone the police, is completely beyond me. I find the excuses for ignoring crime pitiful and
cowardly.
Jan, 9/9/9 16.22
I will always get involved - be it phoning the police & having to give evidence or actually tackling
somebody. Last year, I saw 2 teenage thugs attacking an elderly man, I intervened & was assaulted
(broken nose) but at least they left the man alone. Incidentally one ran off & I managed to hold the other
one down until the police came. He then accused me of assault but thankfully the whole incident was
caught on CCTV & he is now serving 3 years. Stand up people...
Des Miller, Somewhere over the Rainbow, 9/9/9 19.15
There has been some nonsense written here. If I suspect or see any crime being committed, I would
report it and have. The police have always been helpful, grateful and reported back. I am a tiny woman,
but I trust our police to respond even though they are overworked. To those of you who wouldn't bother,
just pray you are not the victim.
Adelaidedecice, 9/9/9 21.28
This is just another symptom of an ever-growing culture of total indifference. It doesn't matter whether
you are being robbed or have a heart-attack in the middle of a busy street, lots of people will walk past
you until someone cares to stop! If we want to see change we have to instil a sense of communal
responsibility and civil and moral duty into our children's generation now and make it clear that caring
isn't an option but a given if we expect others to care about us.
Julia Morneweg, Kennington, 9/9/9 23.59
Yes. I have, even now advanced. Always I carry in my pocket a small HD Camera which is capable of
snapping a crime scene from a distance of over 200 meters be it night or day. I encourage people to
invest in this for their personal security in case of potential crime.
wodgot, uk, 10/9/9, 00.23
From the comments on this board, it is pretty obvious that most of the commenters would be too lily
livered to do the right thing if they saw a crime being committed. This is the reason lawlessness is
increasing - evil flourishes when good men do nothing.
Alice W, Bristol 10/9/9 10.10
Many law-abiding people are wary of reporting crime because they know that the police and the
politicians have an "us and them" mentality, and see the rest of us as just the little people, and no better
than criminals anyway. They simply don't care that we are victims of violent crime. I sincerely hope
that Witness Confident can help change this vile attitude problem that the authorities have towards the
general public, as much as it can convince us it is in our interest to report crime.
lenad, Newcastle, 10/9/9 10.32
32
Yes, I've reported crime and I've confronted lawbreakers. I have also (however foolish you may regard
it) had quiet chats with the gangs of lads that hang around here that I personally won't put up with any
nonsense - I want a quiet life. They know who I am, I know who they are and so far, so good. There's
been one incident in the last 4 years in which a neighbours car window was broken and the lad
responsible (who was on drugs at the time) paid up in full. It's good to talk...
TheManWithNoName, Nottingham, 9/9/9 22.01
The last time I reported a crime, a robbery I witnessed, I waited an hour for the police to turn up, then
spent 2 hours in a police station giving a statement. Not the perfect Saturday night out. Would I do it
again? Of course I would! That night, I made our streets just that little bit safer. The police (Greater
Manchester Police) treated me absolutely fantastic. Please! Report crime!
ArcticPup, Manchester, 10/9/9, 06.41
When I saw a street attack not only was it telephoned into the Police, the photos I took and statement
made were used to obtain a conviction. I would have no compunction of doing so again. Society needs
to stand up to violent thuggery and in this respect we all have a moral duty to assist whilst ensuring our
own safety. Doing nothing whilst claiming the Police are ineffective or there are no bobbies on the beat
is not a helpful response.
Witheld, Crowborough, 10/9/9, 13.03
Reporting street crime is definitely not a waste of time. Looking out for our neighbours has to play a
major part in retaining our community spirit. I have, however, tried to report a child being mugged in our
street for his mobile phone. The police weren't interested.
Gill, London, 10/09/09, 13.41
Regardless of whether the police will catch the perpetrator of any witnessed crimes, I think you're
morally obliged to report it if you saw it. If you don't, the police have no idea that they're missing stuff
and therefore can't adjust their resources to match the situation they're facing. Coming on here with stuff
like "it won't make a difference if I report it or not" is rubbish. On the one hand you're calling for more
police, on the other hand you don't report anything for them to look into.
Conan Batterschrist, 10/09/09 13.57

These people - who we call confident witnesses - help make our communities safe, help
the police do their job and help make the criminal justice system work.
Community groups, courts, defence lawyers, police and prosecutors should endeavour
not to give signals that discourage or undermine their contribution or deter others from
acting in a public spirited way. For our part, this charity looks forward to working with
such people and for the sense of community they personify.,
33
Many thanks to Ian Harley who initially reviewed the Have Your Say data, to Charles
Medawar who analysed the posts and the debate; and to the 1324 people who
contributed to the BBC Have Your Say debate. The report was drafted by Guy Dehn with
input from Richard Barron, George Gross, Anthony Heaton-Armstrong, Anna Myers,
Shonali Routray and Diana Whitworth. Thanks also to the RDS at the Home Office for
their provision of and help on the use of the official statistics.
Witness Confident is the independent charity that is taking a stand against the walk-on-by
culture that fosters street violence, feeds fear and fuels public disengagement. Our work
has four strands
• working across the community to provide support for people who
witness violent or serious crime;
• providing advice, guidance and assistance for such witnesses;
• piloting ways new technology can increase public engagement in the
fight against crime; and
• undertaking research, influencing practice, informing policy and
enlightening public perception.
Witness Confident
312 St Paul’s Road
London N1 2LQ
020 7226 0968
hello@witnessconfident.org
www.witnessconfident.org
Charity No 1131106 | Ltd. Co 6917476

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Evidence Lost (2nd Ed)

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Evidence lost

suspect (v.) – [i] to consider to be true, [ii] to mistrust, [iii] to be ready to

suspect (n.) – someone thought to have committed a crime;

suspect (adj.) – doubtful, questionable;

Carole Longe Ann Oakes-Odger Thelma Perkins David Kneebone

WHY THIS REPORT MATTERS

3. Street violence and public confidence 3

a) Street violence – why it matters 3

4 Have Your Say ‘W ould you report street crim e?’ 11

a) And they just walked on by 13

Second edition: 9th May 2010

 1,159,500 people were victims of street violence in 2008/9

 83% of these incidents were not reported to or resolved by the police

 Of 102 experiences of public and police responses to street violence posted

 Of the 84 negative experiences, 62 were critical of the police, 9 were critical

2. Feedback from witnesses and victims should be a significant factor in

3. The Home Office should commission quantitative and qualitative research

4. Courts, defence lawyers, police and prosecutors should publicise cases

5. To build and maintain confidence in the excellent Policing Pledge, it is

6. Chief Constables and the Director of Public Prosecutions should endorse

3 STREET VIOLENCE AND PUBLIC CONFIDENCE

a) Street violence – w hy it m atters

Stranger attacks Stranger muggings Total

b) Street violence – w hy w itnesses m atter

Stranger attacks Stranger muggings Total

c) Policing & the Crim inal Justice System : public confidence

Crime Survey and is shown in Table 3 below.

d) Engaging Com m unities in Fighting Crim e (Cabinet Office)

e) Public Confidence in the Police (NPIA)

The NPIA reported that the research available showed that23

into three groups:

f) The Perils of Indifference (W itness Confident)

Table 4: Public policy, the perils of indifference and street violence

4. HAVE YOUR SAY “WOULD YOU REPORT STREET CRIME?”

Would you report street crime?

The "w alk on by" attitude to street crim e needs to be

At least 850,000 people were attacked by complete strangers last

Table 5 – Experiences of street crime

To counter these negative impressions, we recommend that the police, lawyers,

a) And people just walked on by

b) First im pressions, lasting im pressions?

Witness Confident Comment:

The Metropolitan Police’s Pledge, for example, states –

c) Tales on engaging the public

Witness Confident Comment:

d) Feedback & follow -up

Witness Confident Comment:

Witness Confident Comment:

f) Courts, crim es and punishm ents

Witness Confident Comment:

Witness Confident Comment:

Witness Confident Comment:

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