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HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL
MONETARY POLICY, TRADE, AND TECHNOLOGY
OF THE
(
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
37–210 PDF WASHINGTON : 2007
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HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
BARNEY FRANK, Massachusetts, Chairman
(II)
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SUBCOMMITTEE ON DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL MONETARY POLICY, TRADE, AND
TECHNOLOGY
LUIS V. GUTIERREZ, Illinois, Chairman
(III)
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CONTENTS
Page
Hearing held on:
May 17, 2007 ..................................................................................................... 1
Appendix:
May 17, 2007 ..................................................................................................... 23
WITNESSES
APPENDIX
Prepared statements:
Paul, Hon. Ron .................................................................................................. 24
Grace, David ..................................................................................................... 25
Haider, Tom ...................................................................................................... 31
Ibarra, Beatriz .................................................................................................. 39
LoVoi, Annette .................................................................................................. 46
Orr, James C. .................................................................................................... 53
Thompson, Mark A. .......................................................................................... 63
(V)
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REMITTANCES: ACCESS, TRANSPARENCY, AND
MARKET EFFICIENCY—A PROGRESS REPORT
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The Federal Reserve ACH system can provide a lower cost struc-
ture when both the sender and the receiver have bank accounts.
While the majority of our U.S. senders are banked, our experience
is that banked individuals on both ends of our transactions are the
exception, not the rule. Studies indicate that a majority of receivers
in Latin America are unbanked. In Mexico, for example, only about
29 percent of individuals who receive remittances are banked.
In order to serve unbanked individuals at a lower cost, we en-
courage you to consider allowing nonbank money transmitters to
open an account at the Federal Reserve and utilize the Fed’s serv-
ices, thus eliminating one layer of the money transfer cost.
We support the policy goal of making remittances more available
and affordable to consumers. However, legislation should not create
an unlevel playing field and place the Congress and Federal agen-
cies in the position of choosing winners and losers in a competitive
and evolving market. Favoring depository institutions presumes
that remittance services provided by such financial institutions are
cheaper than those of traditional remittance providers, ignoring the
fees and penalties associated with checking accounts, ATM trans-
fers, and other services.
Thank you, and I am happy to answer any questions you may
have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Thompson can be found on page
63 of the appendix.]
Chairman GUTIERREZ. Thank you very much, Mr. Thompson.
Mr. Orr.
STATEMENT OF JAMES C. ORR, CHAIRMAN, MICROFINANCE
INTERNATIONAL CORPORATION
Mr. ORR. Thank you very much, Chairman Gutierrez, and Rank-
ing Member Paul. It is a great pleasure to be back again with the
committee after a lot of years. Pretty much everything I know
about banking, and most of what I know about development, I
learned in 8 years working as a legislative counsel to this sub-
committee some years back.
I am here today representing Microfinance International Cor-
poration. The company’s mission is to expand affordable, profes-
sional financial services for people who are either disconnected
from mainstream banking or who have faced overpriced financial
services in the past. We are based here in Washington, D.C. We
have 11 shops in the mid-Atlantic region, and we work with 20 fi-
nancial institutions throughout Latin America—in 20 countries of
Latin America. We are employing microfinance technology and
methodology, and we bring a commercial banking approach to our
business.
I think perhaps one of the best ways for me to address the ques-
tions that I was asked to talk about would be to describe briefly
what our vision was in forming the company and then a little bit
about our system.
We started from a very different starting point than most compa-
nies. We looked at Latin America and saw the agonizingly slow
progress towards economic development. We saw the failure of
many, if not most, large-scale development projects. We saw immi-
grants being forced to pay exorbitant fees for very basic financial
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services that people who have lived in this country for a long time
take for granted and pay very little for.
We saw a lack of competition among money transfer companies
and a pricing structure that often resulted in up to 10 percent of
the remittance amount being taken in fees when foreign exchange
transactions were included, and we saw a U.S. banking system fail-
ing to meet the needs, the legitimate needs, of loans, insurance,
and other financial products to the Hispanic community in the
United States.
Some of the existing remittance mechanisms had substantial
weaknesses. Commercial banks using the SWIFT system and their
correspondent banking relationships take 2 days and charge $35 to
do the kind of transmission that any company here before you
today can do almost instantaneously for roughly a third of that
price.
Some of the traditional remittance companies that use an agent-
based system, that is, an agent on both ends of the transaction,
have a high-cost structure which, in today’s world of falling prices,
gives them financial hurdles, and it also presents obstacles when
trying to work on compliance.
A real advantage that our firm had was that we began after Sep-
tember 11th, and we knew we were starting in an environment
where compliance would be the number one key to the success of
our operation. Our remittance platform, which is really the heart
of the operation, is Internet-based and enables us to charge low
fees and guarantee smooth transactions. Only seconds after the
transaction is booked here in the United States, the recipient can
collect it in many thousands of locations in Latin America. Perhaps
I should say hundreds of locations; I am not 100 percent sure that
we are at the ‘‘thousands’’ stage yet.
Many of the regulatory compliance aspects of booking a remit-
tance are done automatically by our sophisticated computer sys-
tem. They are checked in real time, and a teller is immediately
alerted if there is some evidence of a suspicious transaction.
This leap in technology allows us to charge lower prices. When
we began operating in Latin America, the average remittance cost,
or the average remittance of $300 cost about $15 to send. When we
opened our doors, we charged $9 for that same remittance. Today,
the average is about $10.
I see that I have consumed more time than I imagined. I wanted
to talk a little bit about our compliance system, and I would be
happy to do so in the question-and-answer period. I would like to
make a few comments, thinking about a better compliance regime.
You know, right after September 11th, regulators were presented
with a huge problem. They had no system for tracking this, and
while they were trying to decide what to do, they decided that,
‘‘perhaps we can make banks, and money transfer companies can
do this for us,’’ and essentially, they established a system that puts
the onus on financial institutions to look for suspicious activity,
and bankers and money transfer agents become, essentially, depu-
ties of the regulatory system. The system cannot work very well for
many reasons which you can understand.
When a bank or a financial institution makes a mistake, they get
a very high penalty from their supervisor, so the tendency becomes
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costs, and with those reductions in cost, that it allows you to get
better services and a reduction in cost to consumers.
So we understand that not everybody is going to have an ac-
count, but you know, because we want—I mean, my goal is, you
know, Mr. Haider and Mr. Thompson, to phase you guys out even-
tually.
I mean, come on. We all know if our grandmas were in Mexico
or in Guatemala or in Poland, we would send them an ATM card,
and we would put some money in there, and we would send them
to the bank to go get that money, and we would have conversa-
tions. We know what we would be doing. And I think what we
wanted to do—the goal is, again, as I stated earlier, to allow them
to have the same kind of access to consumer instruments that we
enjoy and that are plentiful to us.
Dr. Paul, please, you are recognized for questions.
Dr. PAUL. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
My interest in this subject is in working to keep the costs down
because it is beneficial to the consumer, and also in maintaining
competition.
Obviously, there is a lot of competition, and prices have come
down. Sometimes I think that the price came down because of tech-
nology and in spite of the government because what government
does tends to raise the prices.
Also, I am very interested in the privacy issue.
So, in dealing with some of the things that Mr. Orr talked about,
that is not so easy. I do not like the idea that the burden is put
on the bank to do the policing, but then there are times when I am
not so sure that the government does a much better job because,
you know, they have suspicious lists of terrorists, and if you get
your name on there, you cannot get it off. So it is really a tough
choice.
I do not agree that you should be the policeman. At the same
time, turning everything over to the government is not very attrac-
tive either because there is so much abuse of individual privacy.
Also, when individuals like yourselves are in the business, it is
really hard—you are well set up, and you have the computer pro-
grams. For new people to come in is a real challenge. So, in some
ways, complicated technology is an exclusionary factor for new peo-
ple coming into the market and is challenging for those who are al-
ready there.
Today, we have a situation where the government does want a
lot of information. We live in the age of terrorism; they want to be
checking for that. There is concern about illegal immigrants, and
if you overly regulate and immigrants are frightened about it and
they, you know, use other sources because they are afraid of being
detected, there are IRS reasons why they want this information—
and there is also the drug war that goes on—so then the burden
falls on you.
I am just wondering a little bit—I am going to make some com-
ments, and I will let any of you answer to this. What type of infor-
mation do you get at the beginning, and how long do you keep this
information? Do you all gather the same information? What is the
purpose of that?
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APPENDIX
(23)
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