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WORLD CENTRAL BANK: DYSTOPIAN CAPITALISM OR SOCIALISM?

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Neuromancer wrote:
I have just released this is a very big topic of discussion, given that I did not want to break the continuity of the
thread, I saw fit to create a thread on the future World Central Bank. There are so many new possibilities open
when a Global Central Bank, A Global Currency and Global Keynesianism that have the potential to change the Road
of Humanity on Global Scale, so here you are -Neuromancer.
Backstory to this thread http://exploringdystopia.freeforums.org/atlas-shrugged-t375-30.html
Neuromancer
WORLD CENTRAL BANK:

THE LOGIC OF GLOBAL CURRENCY AND KEYNESIANISM
http://www.singleglobalcurrency.org/
Stevemata wrote:
Mass Media, Mass Education and Mass Politics all acting as oversight, it's laughable. World Government is a dystopia
by nature.
Huxley warned us of the saturation of the relevant in an ocean of the irrelevant.
In order to effect the plans for World Government with its logical arm of World Central Bank
(integrated World Bank and IMF with ready-access to cashflows eg: COP15 carbon taxes or Tobin taxes on the foreign
exchanges or like ), a righteous and moralising reason has to be found in Global Keynesianism [1] then repeat the same
pattern and cause the same crisis as with America in the long term after people have forgotten the real intent.
First, the fears and a misbehaviours have to be addressed with nominal 'safeguards' to get it passed through the
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1 of 26 4/17/2011 8:17 PM
nation-state electorates with a few crumbs thrown in as carrots as done with COP15 contribution to Developing Nations
(0.7 of GDP) to buy the majority votes in the UN. Roadblock here will be the Nation-state Senates as the blockers to
legislation to effect this program. In sales technique, this is called "addressing the objections" to a World Central Bank.
This merits to support the World Central Bank with Global Income Tax and a World Energy Tax so no one can escape
it. Property Rights will have to go to act as collateral and securities, a road to serfdom indeed, anything is confiscable to
pay the debt.
However in the same thing, a Global Boom (speculative spiral based on credit and risky lending) is created and a Global
Bust can be created to stop it, remember the Causes of the Great Depression? Are we ready for a Global Currency and
Regional Currencies as the short step...to complete merger, from Three Currencies to One Currencies.
There will not be escape, but to the Great Depression there was the Military Keynesianism as a solution; mass military
hardware production in a World War III Scenario to wrest the world out of prolonged recession (punish rogue non-UN
members into membership) and the consequential World Government Debt.
The other option is to build an ' Egyptian Pyramid' ( a useless mega project to capture peoples' imagination with demagogic
value to sway the Public Opinion) to suck the credit and nation-state funds to effect the "Global Public Works Program",
anyone for majority rule vote at the UN?
Now for this to happen, the IS, 4I, NGOs, UN and the Global Elite Financiers have to mobilise their ideological (discourses,
rationales and propaganda and its mass media vehicles) and financial resources to convince a critical mass number of
country leaders to agree via the UN, NGOs, G7, and G20 (route 2: use Regional Governments) to agree to pool their funds
and de facto agree to reflate their economies in coordination.
Quote:
It's a good point: How's a global central bank supposed to work properly if national central banks don't work
properly? It's an immensely complex issue, though.
When it comes to currencies, one global currency would be possible,
The answer to global coordination lies in the instrument called Intergovernmentalism [2] currently done with Council of
Ministers and the G20 meeting of Finance Ministers and Central Bank Presidents. It is easier than I thought. [3]
A Global Currency may come sooner than we think.
Passivity is not an option on the World Central Bank...for such is the Megalomania of the Global Governing Financial Elite.
Can you argue against bankers and their proxies seeking to save the World's Financial System and give them chance to
eliminate Poverty and fix the World Economy once and for all? The Populist and Demagogic discourses are so predictable.
Will they succeed?
*** Notes ***
[1] Global Keynesianism

http://wsarch.ucr.edu/archive/papers/kohler/kohler2.htm
A new Bretton Woods
http://www.eurodad.org/whatsnew/articles.aspx?id=2988
[2] Intergovernmentalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergovernmentalism
[3]
UN says we need global currency solution
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=aSp9VoPeHquI
A Replacement for the US Dollar

http://www.businessweek.com/blogs/money_politics/archives/2009/03/replacement_of.html
Calls rise for a global currency
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/calls-rise-for-new-global-currency/article1367156/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_currency
Blog at Von Misses remarks on UN call for global currency
http://blog.mises.org/archives/010685.asp
Global financial crisis: does the world need a new banking 'policeman'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/3155563/Global-financial-crisis-does-the-world-need-a-
new-banking-policeman.html
[4] /People's World Constitutional Convention by the UN, its Dublin Declaration and Citizens for World Solutions (formerly
World Federalist Movement)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_World_Constitutional_Convention
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Declaration
2 of 26 4/17/2011 8:17 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_World_Federalists
Consider the aspect of World Problematique of the Club of Rome and the World Federalists' Solutions of Global Scope, very
congruent idealogical framework.
http://advocacy.globalsolutions.org/
A comprehensive lists of Democratic World Government organisations who argue the need for a world government with its
inherent premises.
http://www.cdwg.org/membbot.htm
One World, One Money by Forcing Change, please note the other policy nodes.
http://www.forcingchange.org/one_world_one_money_without_endnotes
Ancillary notes to the historical factor of Politicised Finance
Wall Street and Hitler
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6266094/Wall-Street-and-the-Rise-of-Hitler
Wall Street and FRD
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7540127/Wall-Street-and-FDR
Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15973252/Antony-C-Sutton-Wall-Street-and-the-Bolshevik-Revolution-vjsfhotmailfr
Last edited by Neuromancer on Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:24 am
Re: WORLD CENTRAL BANK: DYSTOPIAN CAPITALISM OR SOCIALISM?

Money notes can represent any reserve resource, natural or manufactured, gold, silver, cattle, or carbon...
Neuromancer, you have already identified the world currency, it isn't a future currency backed by taxes, it's the present,
it's carbon credits. Carbon credits are the back door world currency.
Who can argue against the morality of bankers who are savings the financial system and the environment?
Carbon Credits are theoretically stable because of popular fear of global warming; inflation would theoretically be
impossible because printing more credits would be considered environmental destruction. Well, inflation would only be
possible if the carbon credit allotment were increased or if nation states chose to withhold the credits from industry use
them as money.
Inflation is possible at expense of industry or with the improvement of anti carbon technology, or through some convoluted
Stevemata carbon sequestering scheme (that you will no doubt need buy some license for).
There is no more suitable currency for international trading on a government level than a single carbon note worth
hundreds of millions.
Unfortunately for everyone, the carbon credits are controlled by committee of Chicken Littles who will be buying and selling
and redistributing the worlds wealth according to whatever is popular at the moment.
And the potential for corruption? Unlimited on a global scale, imagine the worlds money being run by appointed officials
who are more focused on green house gases instead of stability or economic growth? These people would be choosing each
nation states carbon credit yearly allotment.
Is there any better back door system for putting private industry under the control of government than controlling
pollution? Are carbon credits the latest attack on capitalism?
Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:11 pm
Neuromancer
3 of 26 4/17/2011 8:17 PM
Good that you mentioned that the Carbon Credits are the funds collected by the Conference of the Parties in COP15's
International Treaty. In the 1970s there were arguments to deal foreign debt and the dislocation caused by OPEC and the
Oil Shocks, which again appear linked up to the Energy Depletion/Pollution Discourse.
Formerly, it was known Special Drawing Rights (SDR)by the IMF and World Bank.
However Carbon Credits are 'hanging' on the effecting of the COP15 Treaty[1], it is unresolved, see more below.
On the Carbon Credit Currency is a relaunched of the Technocracy Inc's Energy Currency to abolish the Free Market. An
idea suggested back in the 1920's by the M King Hubert of the Hubert's Peak Oil (an employee of Shell!), such is the
coincidence without the Technology of today's computers. The result of managing such currency is global technocratic
management the energy credits are allocated on a global scale [2]
Specifically Technocracy and its Energy Currency relies on the concept of the Energy Card [3] to rationalise the use of
global resources (eliminate all possible waster- can you disagree?) by the 6.7 billion human beings, the idea goes back
1937, but it is a glorified Ration Card as proposed elsewhere to resolve the issue of Carbon Emissions in England back in
the closing days of 2009. [4]
Quote:
Unfortunately for everyone, the carbon credits are controlled by committee of Chicken Littles who will be buying and
selling and redistributing the worlds wealth according to whatever is popular at the moment.
These guys are Club of Rome's Neo-Malthusianists descendants in the sense that Catastrophism underpins the need for a
global solution to the global pseudo-problem of Resource Depletion and hence Global Central Regulation through Global
Central Planning, one logically feeds and leads to the other, thus we arrived at "Sustainable Development" [5] and
"Intergenerational Equity" [6] of the Rio Summit arguing stewardship of Global Resources by a Central Authority, the logic
is inescapable.
Environmentalism is Global Central Planning when the Solutions to the World Problematique [7] are implemented.
Quote:
pollution?
Are carbon credits the latest attack on capitalism?
Whosover is finally behind the Carbon Currency and the Carbon Trading System is a Central Planner [8], which
could be both Centralists of both the Monopoly Capitalism and its Corporate State and/or Eco-socialists in the sense of its
abolition of the Market System and redistribution policies. The difference is one does for central control of the market
mechanism for Monopoly Profits and the other does it to save the planets by controlling use and consumption of resources.
Given that we have what Maurice Strong said in paraphrasing, back in the days of the Rio Summit's Commission for Global
Governance a "Socialist System with Capitalist Methodology", then either collusion or the actual Locus of Control is a
Capitalist Faction out to rake the profits from Global Government's Central Planning.
I have not ruled out possibility that both could be working together beyond the murky world of funding of NGO's (The
Metaphor of the Black Box comes to mind) and the Green-Left Movement, given the level of congruence of goals of
Command and Control of the Global Economy. In that case, then the Green-Left are tools and fools in bringing us the
dreaded Global Leviathan called World Government run by Monopoly Capitalists out of pure good intentions.
So it is a bastardised son; The Global Government gives Special Charter Rights (Concessions) to the Global Big Business to
exploit world
resources (so far the green banner locks out temporary the use by national capitalists).
Consider this idea: what is the role of World's Population as the Corporate-run World's Human Resources?
Control the World's Environment to control People on a global scale.
I think the bastardised Red China's Capitalist System has the answers as to the role of workers as a mere resource to be
spent with no intrinsic rights to anything other than Government and thus the Cartel's prerogatives as to profit.
Quote:
These people would be choosing each nation states carbon credit yearly allotment.
That's the Power of Life and Death and the Weapon of Mass Destruction to compel obedience, it is a Tool of Financial
Monopoly Power.
Deny the Carbon Credits and the Country and its People Starve by being unable import Food, an effective
financial embargo.
What did Hobbes and Locke say about Divided Power and Freedom?
It is time we saddled up and get ready..... for Global Financial Dystopia...
4 of 26 4/17/2011 8:17 PM
*** Notes ***

Catastrophism: -what did HR L Mencken say about a scared Populous being led to safety?
Who can argue environmental Escathology as the new reinvented concept to bring fear to the Populace and install the new
Saviour Regime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catastrophism
Special Drawing Rights :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Drawing_Rights
Oil Shocks: There seems to be an overarching rationale in the anti Israel position of the present Left and the Arab
League/African League led by socialist Qaddafi, Al Qaida (note Osama's anti-American Environmentalist position of late),
the current Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and their conspiratorial views on Jewish People.
The wide perspective is the perpetuation of belligerence to sustain very high world oil prices which benefits by
taking high petro-dollar revenues and then follows the Big Oil's extraordinary profits for the term of the Bush/Neo-con
Period.
Is this Economic Warfare? This means for the OPEC and Big Oil to die off, Israel or America have to go to war against an
OPEC Nation to break the Price-Fixing Cartel, thus damaging the Big Oil's stranglehold on the World Economy, causing a
drastic fall in the price of the Energy Source. In the short term abnormal high oil prices, then the fall follows as the invader
starts pumping oil cheaply and thus disrupting the OPEC Cartel Economies and ability to purchase armaments and wage
war in the future, this leads to issue of being unable to import cheap foodstuffs into OPEC with interesting results for Hugo
Chavez (memo him at Copenhagen 2009).
I haven't ruled out the possibility of USA to smash Big Oil by waging a Proxy War against OPEC Member Venezuela.
By whatever means it must be a Blitzkrieg...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Warfare
2000's Oil Crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_energy_crisis
Maurice Strong: - millionaire oil businessman and 'socialist', with an instrumental role in Green Politics of the Earth Charter,
Rio Summit and Sustainable Development.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Strong
[1]
http://unfccc.int/resource/docs/2009/awglca7/eng/inf02.pdf
[2] Energy Accounting Currency

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_Incorporated#Energy_accounting
Technocracy's position on the Price Market System

http://www.technocracy.org/component/search/energy%2Baccounting/%252F?ordering=&searchphrase=all
[3] Energy Distribution Card
http://www.technocracy.org/transition/energy-distribution-card/118-energy-distribution-card
Quote:
HE ENERGY DISTRIBUTION CARD
As each day passes it becomes more evident that our socio-economic structure is unsustainable in the technological,
scientific age in which we live. Consequently, Technocracy Inc., a membership organization which is scientifically
oriented, continues to put forward the ideas which the organization developed and presented more than 75 years
ago.
One aspect of Technocracy’s analysis is that our “Price System,” which include our current “means of exchange and
accounting” (i.e. money), is not a natural requirement of a functioning society in our advance age of science and
technology.
Though debt tokens go back over 7,000 years in human history,
the time is here when wrenching an accountable profit from society’s interactions is too expensive in environmental
and human costs. [...]
5 of 26 4/17/2011 8:17 PM
[4] Carbon Ration Card

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121538804508931123.html
"November 9, 2009
Carbon ration account for all proposed by Environment Agency
If people used up their yearly ration early, they would have to buy extra from those who had not used their full allowance
Ben Webster, Environment Editor"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6909046.ece
[6] Sustainable Development

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_development
[7] Intergeneration Equity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergenerational_Equity
[8] Central Planning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_planning
Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:04 am

I've pondered upon this a tad, and I don't agree with your analyses. As I see it, it's just libertarian paranoia. Anything that
threatens US capitalism must of course be an evil commie conspiracy.
As I've pointed out elsewhere, we can't even make all Western nations ratify something as innocent as the UNICEF's
Convention on the Rights of the Child. How on earth should we make all Western nations unite around a Global Central
Bank? Let alone Russia, China, India, and Brazil?! There will not be a Global Central Bank in our lifetimes.
Furthermore, a Global Central Bank would in fact be less powerful than for instance the USA's Federal Reserve. A central
bank's main (and often, but not always sole) means of manipulation are the national currency and national interest rates -
Nexus
nota bene, in relation to other national currencies and national interest rates!
Inner Party Leader
Also, a Global Central Bank would out of necessity have to be publicly owned. Some central banks are actually privately
owned; the USA's Federal Reserve is a kind of hybrid. At least as long as we have this economic system, it's easier for the
people to demand transparancy from a publicly owned institution than a privately owned institution.
You speak of Carbon Credits as if it could be used as a means of manipulation, and that's probably true. However, have you
never heard of something called the DOLLAR? What's the bloody difference really?
I think the creation of a World Government is inevitable. First, it's a logical step in the evolution of human civilisation: Flock
→ Tribe → Village → City State → Kingdom → Nation → Intergovernmental Union → World Government. In European
history, people were just as sceptical when the first kingdoms were formed as you are now; civil war broke out in my
country due to this. They were, probably righteously so, afraid of centralised rule and heavier taxation. However, these
kingdoms were prerequisites for modern civilisation - the nations you defend so passionately. However, we will not live to
see the creation of a World Government, at least not the kind you think of.
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:12 pm
Posts: 1865
Location: Airstrip North Finally, have faith in the people. You come from young nations which have to unite around your governments, but as a
European, coming from a continent with a rich history of resistance and revolution, I can tell you that there's always a limit
for what people are prepared to accept. At a certain point, they will revolt, even if it means risking their lives.
_________________
"Life is a succession of here and now, here and now, unceasing concentration in the here and now. People who worry about the
future or the past don't understand that they are worrying about an illusion." -Taisen Deshimaru
WELCOME! Forum Policy BBCode Tutorial
Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:05 pm
Quote:
I've pondered upon this a tad, and I don't agree with your analyses.
As I see it,
it's just libertarian paranoia.
Anything that threatens US capitalism must of course be an evil commie conspiracy.
Neuromancer
A 'conspiracy' call does not tell me whether it is fact or fiction, we are talking about a dystopian scenario here, quick
dismiss but floated by George Soros at Davos last week. Is George Soros and his banking cohorts commie conspirators?
Which one are you saying Nexus?
Quote:
6 of 26 4/17/2011 8:17 PM
You speak of Carbon Credits as if it could be used as a means of manipulation, and that's probably true.
However,
have you never heard of something called the DOLLAR? What's the bloody difference really?
You are speaking of the dying US Dollar as it is agonising...perhaps this is the 1950's Nexus with the US Dollar Value at its
peak?
Quote:
There will not be a Global Central Bank in our lifetimes.
For your sake and mine I hope so and never.
Quote:
As I've pointed out elsewhere,

we can't even make all Western nations ratify something as innocent as the UNICEF's Convention on the Rights
of the Child.
Seems to be a lot of 'righteous' investment for a mere convention, may be there is something down the track to this
innocuous-sounding convention will spring up on. I am going to have a look. Any way is it the job of the non-democratic
and foreign UNICEF to write up rights and obligations for governments and citizens outside its UN jurisdiction to obey or be
foolish enough to ratify? The UNICEF and ratification process bypasses the law-making by democratically elected
governments. Who is UNICEF accountable to and who are its personnel?
I think NOT.
Quote:
How on earth should we make all Western nations unite around a Global Central Bank?
Intergovernmentalism, works at the regional level for the EU, create regional para-governments, take time over several
decades and we are there.
Quote:
Furthermore, a Global Central Bank would in fact be less powerful than for instance the USA's Federal Reserve.
We are talking in the present tense, correct, however a Global Central Bank that pools the funds from the world's central
banks is a different case.
Quote:
Also, a Global Central Bank would out of necessity have to be publicly owned.
Works for saddling the public finances with debt and borrowing, it has to appear to be public for private benefit, Murphy's
Law at work. Who pays for the World Central Bank's debt Nexus?
Quote:
I think the creation of a World Government is inevitable.
May be you know something about the future we don't? A better crystal ball? Democratic or appearance thereof is another
thing....Karl Marx and many others believe in Historical Determinism as a predetermined outcome.
Quote:
First, it's a logical step in the evolution of human civilisation

: Flock → Tribe → Village → City State → Kingdom → Nation → Intergovernmental Union → World Government.
Sounds like a world federalist speaking here, here comes the "World Problematique" discourse to save us all. For the
Intergovernmental Union you need to explain and assure that the same issues that affect the nation-states will not and will
not with certainty degenerate into a Intergovernmental Union (at its directive-writing commissars ) as an utterly
dysfunctional entity amplified at World Government level -too much bloody government, red tape never dreamed of. A
7 of 26 4/17/2011 8:17 PM
mockery of a World Parliament will be necessary to give it a level of minimal respectability.

How long will the mask remain attached is moot.
Quote:
Intergovernmental Union → World Government.
This is not coincidence but you are referring to regional and global empires here, you skipped some large and long term
government organisations, as for the EU if you may, people living in the Western Eurasian Peninsula qualify as 'Europeans',
that's stretching the concept very thinly and far in the same way we could stretch Christianity and citizenship and the Holy
Roman Empire as a Transnational Government. Then there is the Soviet Union and its 'federation'. As for the US, at least it
has homogeneity to justify the citizenship and a federal cause, which was from its birth with the founding colonies. But for
Europe or Eastern Europe? And inevitable historical process and outcome? This is ideological stuff.
Quote:
However,
we will not live to see the creation of a World Government,
Is this supposed to be some form of comforting statement with such prediction of the future?
Quote:
at least not the kind you think of.
World Government...and what is it that you think I think of by the way?
Quote:
Finally, have faith in the people.
I am not a religious guy though, that's wishful passive thinking. Wars are not won through prayers and good wishes of
optimists.
You are willing to gamble the lives of millions to prove your point that somehow a fully disarmed populace with a heritage
of revolution and democracy will win the civil war against a fully armed tyranny with tanks, secret police, guns and
paraphernalia of military might will somehow call it the day.
This is very optimistic to a fault and if it comes to pass, very irresponsible to human life from the Future Generation doing
the Fight perspective.
Quote:
You come from young nations which have to unite around your governments,
but as a European,
coming from a continent with a rich history of resistance and revolution,
I can tell you that there's always a limit for what people are prepared to accept.
I take this as a patronising statement, we all know Europe will always be better, etc, etc, etc.
It seems 'Europeans' have a slow learning curve in dealing tyrannies throughout history like everyone else, given their
record up to the mid 1940's or the so-called coming down of the symbolic Berlin Wall. That's 20 or so years, sounds like the
learning curve is still at play here Nexus, how many people went to the gulag and the firing squads before they got sick of
the Tyranny -well?
The "Preparation to accept Tyranny" statement is pure conceit, how can disarmed people pose a threat or effectively
oppose or overthrow tyranny without actual capacity to do it?
You need to be realist, either arm the people as an insurance policy or do not indulge in the possibility of government
degenerating into a tyranny in the first place.
Creating a regional or world government with such resources (military resources and wealth) is flirting with such tyranny
that can murder people in the millions to remain as a hegemonic power.
Quote:
At a certain point,
they will revolt,
even if it means risking their lives.
How about we don't get the regional and world government in the fist place and save the gamble and the lives of millions
in the first place? Sounds economical with human life and way more rational than indulging in such an exercise in
8 of 26 4/17/2011 8:17 PM
geo-political suicide.
So are you for the World Govt et al Nexus? You are denying the analysis of world government instrumentalities (world
central bank and so on) but agreeing in the thrust for it at large. I am confused about your position here.
Last edited by Neuromancer on Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:57 pm
Stevemata wrote:
And the potential for corruption? Unlimited on a global scale,

imagine the worlds money being run by appointed officials who are more focused on green house gases instead of
stability or economic growth?
It is world central planning with the carbon permits, with the cream skimmed by the carbon trading exchanges such as
those run by Goldman Sachs in both Europe and USA.
Quote:
These people would be choosing each nation states carbon credit yearly allotment.
A polite name for Technocratic Central Planning with an Energy Currency and the death of the Free Market.
Control Production and Targets and you control people, however the fact is if it all goes wrong there is not localisation of
the catastrophe, the disaster is global! Where can you escape or be supplied with food? With Global Central Planning
there is nowhere to run away.
Opportunity for corruption you said? Look at it this way, the science of Global Warming has hit a bump with Climategate,
despite the collectivist bleating that somehow dresses the fact otherwise, the fact remains CO2 is natural trace gas product
of human and animal respiration and is used by plants for photosynthesis to grow. Then it leaves us with the cold hard fact
then, that CO2 is a device to waste capital in unneeded technologies, add costs to production, levy taxation on a global
scale (via a UN Treaty) and centrally control industrial production thus make goods and services more expensive to the
Populace at large.
If we take the escathological fear out of CO2, we are left with a very cold hard reality.
Take for instance the corruption cases of Carbon Trading from the following sources, we can only fathom if this World
Neuromancer Carbon Trading System would do the World Economy and its corrupt operators with enough wealth to bend governments
at the UN Level to have it implemented in a Copenhagen Treaty-like international agreements in the near future.
Quote:
pollution?
Are carbon credits the latest attack on capitalism?
Enter the Carbon Capitalist Cronies with its Socialist Mindset and Capitalist Methodology - The Bastard Child -this will
maintain the Politics of Left and Right on the national level confused to their detriment:
*** Notes ***
Europol
"Carbon Credit fraud causes more than 5 billion euros damage for European Taxpayer"
http://www.europol.europa.eu/index.asp?page=news&news=pr091209.htm
The UK's Guardian
"Discredited strategy
Increasing allegations of corruption and profiteering are raising serious questions about the UN-run carbon trading
mechanism aimed at cutting pollution and rewarding clean technologies, writes Patrick McCully, executive director of US
thinktank International Rivers"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/may/21/environment.carbontrading/print
Carbon Offsets Daily

"Obama’s carbon emission bill to licence pollution and fraud"
http://www.carbonoffsetsdaily.com/news-channels/usa/obama%E2%80%99s-carbon-emission-bill-to-licence-pollution-
and-fraud-9805.htm
This is a form of Economic Warfare against the Democratic Nation-state.
9 of 26 4/17/2011 8:17 PM
Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:09 am
Nexus wrote:
I've pondered upon this a tad,

and I don't agree with your analyses.
As I see it, it's just libertarian paranoia.
Anything that threatens US capitalism must of course be an
evil commie conspiracy.
Hmm, besides the indirect rhetoric and claque by Chavez, Morales and Castro there, Conspiracy Theory Label raises its
ugly head again, seems to explain away just about anything nowdays Nexus...oh well...if it passes by as a
rationalisation....
The question is why is a Uber Capitalist Financier like Soros seek to support it?
What can I say, this raises the flag immediately Nexus in what contradictions are concerned.
I have to ask this question is it a commie conspiracy, is it libertarian paranoia?
Given that the problems and solutions come from America, like with poisonous spiders and snakes, they are also the
source for the anti-venom to cure the victim.
Quote:
[..]must of course be an evil commie conspiracy.
Can you argue against the historical Communist Manifesto's point for a central bank and income tax, Nexus? I think not.
Central control of the capitalist economy, kills the Capitalist Birds with one stone, taxation, inflation, speculation, high
interest rates and then recession. Screw the capitalists good. LOL.
But I am digressing with this form of humour.
Let's have a look at this Mr George Soros's mind.
Neuromancer
George Soros as Paul Warburg [PW] of the 21st Century:

why does he want a World Central Bank?
Project Syndicate wrote:
A New World Architecture

George Soros
NEW YORK – Twenty years after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of communism, the world is facing
another stark choice between two fundamentally different forms of organization: international capitalism and state
capitalism.
The former, represented by the United States, has broken down, and the latter, represented by China, is on the rise.
Following the path of least resistance will lead to the gradual disintegration of the international financial system.
A new multilateral system based on sounder principles must be invented.
While international cooperation on regulatory reform is difficult to achieve on a piecemeal basis, it may be
attainable in a grand bargain that rearranges the entire financial order.
A new Bretton Woods conference, like the one that established the post-WWII international financial
architecture, is needed to establish new international rules, including treatment of financial institutions
that are too big to fail and the role of capital controls. It would also have to reconstitute the
International Monetary Fund to reflect better the prevailing pecking order among states and to revise
its methods of operation.
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26 PDF files without this message by purchasing novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com) 4/17/2011 8:17 PM
In addition, a new Bretton Woods would have to reform the currency system. The post-war order, which
made the US more equal than others, produced dangerous imbalances.
The dollar no longer enjoys the trust and confidence that it once did, yet no other currency can take its
place.
The US ought not to shy away from wider use of IMF Special Drawing Rights. Because SDRs are denominated in
several national currencies, no single currency would enjoy an unfair advantage.[...]
In addition, a new Bretton Woods would have to reform the currency system. The post-war order, which made the
US more equal than others, produced dangerous imbalances. The dollar no longer enjoys the trust and confidence
that it once did, yet no other currency can take its place.
The US ought not to shy away from wider use of IMF Special Drawing Rights. Because SDRs are
denominated in several national currencies, no single currency would enjoy an unfair advantage.
The range of currencies included in the SDRs would have to be widened, and some of the newly added
currencies, including the renminbi, may not be fully convertible.
This would, however, allow the international community to press China to abandon its exchange-rate peg to the
dollar and would be the best way to reduce international imbalances. And the dollar could still remain the preferred
reserve currency, provided it is prudently managed.
One great advantage of SDRs is that they permit the international creation of money, which is
particularly useful at times like the present. The money could be directed to where it is most needed,
unlike what is happening currently. A mechanism that allows rich countries that don’t need additional reserves
to transfer their allocations to those that do is readily available, using the IMF’s gold reserves.
[...]
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/soros52/English
Consider this in relation to the structure and creation of the World Bank Group [1]
Indeed, The World Bank is the UN's Central Bank, so Mr Soros is speaking about reforming the World Bank so it morphs
proper into a paragovernment if not an outright central bank.
What is left is to bridge the gap between 200 or so central banks, whittle them down to three regional central banks and
then One Global Central Bank under some euphemistic name.
As for the next, there are steps afoot to implement a Global Central Bank and a System of Global Taxation [2] by UN
organs.
Need I say more....more momentum is needed...keep your eyes peeled.
In another thread you remarked that you were an anarchist at heart, however how can you reconcile regional, global
governments against the intrinsic spirit of minimalist if non-existing government as proposed by Anarchism? Unless your
anarchism is simply to do away with the Present Order in the interim to install two layers of more government.
So Anarchism would be transitional to what can be called Global Statism for the lack of a better word.
*** notes ***
[pw] Paul Warburg, biography by the US Federal Reserve of Minneapolis

"Paul Warburg's Crusade to Establish a Central Bank in the United States
Paul Warburg was an advocate for a central bank in the United States and was chosen by President Woodrow Wilson to
serve as one of the first members of the Federal Reserve Board.
Michael A. Whitehouse
May 1989"
http://minneapolisfed.org/pubs/region/89-05/reg895d.cfm
[1]
"The World Bank Group (WBG) is a family of five international organizations that makes leveraged loans, generally to poor
countries.
The Bank came into formal existence on 27 December 1945 following international ratification of the Bretton
Woods agreements[/b], which emerged from the United Nations Monetary and Financial Conference (1 July – 22 July
1944).
"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Bank_Group
[2]
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See point 7 on Global Central Bank.
See point 9 on Global Taxation

"Occasional Paper 4 - GLOBAL GOVERNANCE FOR HUMAN DEVELOPMENT
GLOBAL GOVERNANCE FOR HUMAN
DEVELOPMENT
Paul Streeten "
http://hdr.undp.org/en/reports/global/hdr1992/papers/paul_streeten.pdf
Of Interest, see more in the Fractional Reserve System, shows the system of money
and credit creation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_reserve
Last edited by Neuromancer on Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:41 pm

George Soros, Let's not forget his activist organizations http://moveon.org/ and http://www.americanprogress.org/ and
http://www.democracyalliance.org/ and the now defunct "America Coming Together".
He makes (actually steals) money by slowly inflating markets with his companies massive cash reserves then he
simultaneously sells all his companies holdings short trigger massive devaluations. He is good friends with a lot of very
powerful goverment financial managers, Former Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker even wrote the forward for one of
his books.
France charged and convicted Soros for insider trading in 1989 in an a failed hostile bank take over.
He triggered Black Wednesday (September 16, 1992), where the English Pound was significantly devalued and he gained
an estimated 10 billion English Pounds.
The Association of Southeast Asian Nations considers him the ring leader in the 1997 coordinated destabilization of ASEAN
economies which he significantly profited from.
I consider the US financial metldown to be a failed devaluation attempt by Soros and friends, failed in large because the US
dollar was already undervalued against other currency's, but on the reverse, I guess that he profited significantly from the
Financial Bailouts. Remember, that anyone with billions of Dollars can bribe anyone they choose, I wouldn't at all be
surprised if the Chairmen of the Federal reserve or any other Federal Reserve members or Bank CEOs were bribed.
He is one the few billionaires with a growing fortune in the current financial melt down.
He funded John Kerry's presidential run in 2004 and nearly won. John Kerry, a mediocre candidate at best received the
second largest number of votes ever cast in any presidential election.
Stevemata
In the United States we have something called an "October Surprise" some financial crisis that significantly reduces support
for Republican candidates in the following November Election.
1984 (Failed),
1992 (Success),
1996 (Success),
2004 (Failed),
2008 (Big Success).
These events only happen when republicans are leading in the polls, note that George Bush was behind in every Poll before
the Election and that their was no event, and most recently John McCain was surging in the polls with his surprise female
vice presidential selection for weeks before the October Surprise.
President Obama broke all the contribution records but most of the money was Funneled through "Community
Organizations", it's been argued many times that George Soros paid for Obama's campaign in addition to Kerry's.
George Soros isn't just a unethical banker, he also funded and continues to fund violent revolutionary groups across the
former soviet protectorates and around the world.
------------------------------
George Soros wants a Global Bank now.
Considering his track record, I don't think he is a Tyrant in waiting, just a con working on the biggest con of all.
Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:53 pm

Neuromancer
Quote:
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He makes (actually steals) money by slowly inflating markets with his companies massive cash reserves then he
simultaneously sells all his companies holdings short trigger massive devaluations.
Inflate the speculative asset bubble with cheap credit at the start of the Business Cycle, get out mid way rich and then
through insider trading know when the Federal Reserve is about to raise interest rates and lead to the bubble's collapse, a
la Goldman Sachs with its ARMs and Derivatives and its upcoming carbon-priced derivatives. Recession ensues with
Keynesian Spending and yet more borrowing from the same bankers and financiers.
I think Goldman Sachs's Investor Group for Climate Change is planning to defraud the Pension Funds and Institutional
Investors with an artificially inflated (overvalued) carbon derivatives, more over, the government
can neither remove the Carbon Trading Price supports which'd collapse the derivatives' prices with the
mandatory price-movement bet placed by Goldman Sachs, nor can the Government raise interest rates and destroy the
investments by the Pension Funds and Institutional Investors.
There is a hanging International Carbon Treaty as a mandated Price Support and Revenue Collection System, thus Cap and
Trade's logic.
This is an interesting Lock-up to government's Policy Instruments.
Quote:
He is good friends with a lot of very powerful goverment financial managers,

Former Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker even wrote the forward for one of his books.
Trilateral Commission link and the Council on Foreign Relations, the usual culprits.
Quote:
He is one the few billionaires with a growing fortune in the current financial melt down.
So is Goldman Sachs, which means they took insurance against the securities falling in price and after getting out mid way.
So there was an anticipation on the Price Movement, works good for Commodities Trading such as Oil and Biofuel too - if
you have Insider Knowledge on the drivers of the price movements and government's demand management supports,
courtesy of the Tax Payers.
So the Insiders make money on the Upswing on the Business Cycle and cashing on the price bet as the securities or
commodities' prices plummet on the business Cycle Bust.
There is Logic to Statism and Influence Peddling in Politics and wanky Think Tanks for Open Society, more open economies
to rob and rape off their wealth, with their citizens reduced to serfdom through government debt.
Statism Pays so Well....
Quote:
The Association of Southeast Asian Nations considers him the ring leader in the 1997 coordinated destabilization of
ASEAN economies which he significantly profited from.
I remember this, the Thai Bhat Float and the Asian Currency Meltdown, no wonder despite Mahathir Mohammed's
anti-semitic rhetoric, there was a grain of truth to his grievances. So much misery was caused.
Quote:
President Obama broke all the contribution records but most of the money was Funneled through "Community
Organizations",
it's been argued many times that George Soros paid for Obama's campaign in addition to Kerry's.
This points at ACORN's activities in concealing the Big Money's influence peddler's name,
a form of smurfing laundromat, to buy in to the New Admin, got the money, got the interest, got the influence.
The ACORN's investigation continues...
....and the World Bank and the IMF are infamous for their rape of the Third World Economies and cutting the standard of
living to the bone of bare subsistence of people eating form garbage dumps (ideal sustainable development), gotta pay
back the debt, now is the turn for the USA too? Do we want the more of the same full-blown World Central Bank
Financial Leviathan to prey on Humanity unbound? Some people don't read the news, things always sound better in
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Theory though.... Bankcor #2[1]
[1]
Quote:
2009 Comments by Zhou Xiaochuan
In a speech delivered in March 2009 entitled Reform the International Monetary System, Zhou Xiaochuan, the
governor of the People's Bank of China called Keynes' bancor approach "farsighted" and proposed the adoption of
IMF SDRs as a global reserve currency as a response to the financial crisis of 2007–2010.
He argued that a national currency was unsuitable as a global reserve currency because of the Triffin
dilemma - the difficulty faced by reserve currency issuers in trying to simultaneously achieve their domestic
monetary policy goals and meet other countries' demand for reserve currency.[3][4] This renewed interest in
Keynes' idea may be considered part of the 2008–2009 Keynesian resurgence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bancor
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Asian_countries_call_for_global_currency
Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:31 pm

It seems my prediction was not off the mark, it just came to news that the International Central Bankers along with the
Bank for International Settlements are meeting for two days behind closed doors to coordinate new policies to deal with
the shaky financial stability brought by their policies, desire to create a
world central bank and depredations of the private sector counterparts on the Productive
Industrial Economy of Capitalism at large.
It has come sooner than I thought too, usually the softening up process takes a bit longer to parrot off the need for a global
tax or pooled global rescue funds via the courtesies of the IMF.
You see this is how it goes; too much instability or a global crash and the Populace starts asking real questions as to who
benefits from the ongoing crises and bailouts coming from the taxpayers, this leads then to a call to Actual Reform of the
Financial System in a sweeping political change; finally the Private Bankers who benefit from the farce could see
themselves in jail or looking for real jobs, hence a Patchover Measure must be taken to forestall or delay the disastrous
crisis. The Parasite can't afford to kill the Host for it means its own death too.
From the ETS/Cap and Trade Angle; it seems the carbon tax was needed to increase the liquidity of the government sector,
which would then in turn, funnel new funds into the private sector by way of grants, bailouts, loans, takeovers and
subsidies to enrich the bankers yet again. This however would mean a dramatic fall in the standard of living of Western
Taxpayers (wealth transfer) by reducing effective income at the energy generation level, and course more funds from
carbon trading and issue of worthless carbon derivatives sold to pension funds would yield the boom profits, then the bust
ensues with the usual drama.
The Sun Herald wrote:
Secret summit of top bankers

Neuromancer By George Lekakis and Fleur Leyden From: Herald Sun February 06, 2010 12:00am
The high-powered gathering coincides with a fresh meltdown on world sharemarkets / AP
World's top bankers fly in

To meet at secret location
Trouble on the horizon
THE world's top central bankers began arriving in Australia yesterday as renewed fears about the
strength of the global economic recovery gripped world share markets.
Representatives from 24 central banks and monetary authorities including the US Federal Reserve and European
Central Bank landed in Sydney to meet tomorrow at a secret location, the Herald Sun reports.
Organised by the Bank for International Settlements last year, the two-day talks are shrouded in secrecy with
high-level security believed to have been invoked by law enforcement agencies.
Speculation that the chairman of the US Federal Reserve, Dr Ben Bernanke, would make an appearance could not
be confirmed last night.
The event will be dominated by Asian delegations and is expected to include governors of the Peoples Bank of China,
the Bank of Japan and the Reserve Bank of India.
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The arrival of the high-powered gathering coincided with a fresh meltdown on world sharemarkets, sparked by
renewed concerns about global growth and sovereign debt.
Fears countries including Greece, Portugal, Spain and Dubai could default on debt repayments
combined with disappointing US jobs data to spook investors.
Australia's ASX 200 slumped 2.4 per cent, to a its lowest close since November 5, echoing a sharp fall on Wall
Street.
Asian share markets were also pummelled, with Japan's Nikkei 225 down almost 3 per cent and Hong Kong's Hang
Seng slumping 3.3 per cent.
The damage was also being felt by European markets last night with London's FTSE 100 down sagging 1 per cent in
early trade.
Sovereign debt fears rippled through to the Australian dollar which was hammered to a four-month low of US86.43
and was trading at US86.77 cents last night.
"This does feel like '08 and '07 all over again whereby we had these sort of little fires pop up and they are
supposedly contained but in reality they are not quite contained,'' said H3 Global Advisors chief executive Andrew
Kaleel.
"Dubai should have been an isolated incident and now we are seeing issues with Greece, Portugal and
Spain.''
It wasn't all bad news with the RBA yesterday upping its Australian growth forecasts and flagging more interest rate
rises this year.
The central bank estimates the economy grew 2 per cent in 2009, and will expand by 3.25 per cent in 2010, and by
3.5 per cent in 2011.
The outlook for global growth is likely to be a key theme of the high level central bank talks.
The gathering also comes at an important time for the BIS as it initiates an overhaul of the global
banking system which will include new capital rules applying to banks and more stringent standards
regulating executive pay.
A key part of the two-day talkfest will be a special meeting of Asian central bankers chaired by the governor of the
Central Bank of Malaysia, Dr Zeti Akhtar Aziz.
Influential BIS general manager Jaime Caruana is also expected to take a prominent role in the talks.
Federal Treasurer Wayne Swan will address the central bank officials at a dinner on Monday night.
http://www.news.com.au/business/secret-summit-of-top-bankers/story-e6frfm1i-1225827289543
Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:33 pm

Too big to fail, are countries too big to fail? Who is to stop countries from failing? Global wealth redistribution is what
Keynesianism would prescribe, hollowing out economies and looting the generators of wealth so that inefficient
governments and economies can survive without death and rebirth.
If one farmer were going out of business, would you loot the other farmers to keep him in business or would you tell him to
plant different crops? In the United States we have bad farmers planting bad crops or even being paid not to plant crops so
that the price of those bad crops can stay high and the bad farmers can stay in business.
Systematic redistribution of wealth to the worst businesses and the worst workers and everyone involved but the source of
the money is profiting. Bad Farmers, Bad Banks, Bad Politicians and Bad Economies.
Stevemata
In a marathon, would you ever force the runners in front to slow down so the runners in back can keep up rather than
letting the losers try different sports?
My entire public education was formated so that the second worst student could pass, the worst student was moved to a
special class where everyone passes and everyone the same degrees and the same diplomas, everyone passed.
When I was ten the fourteen year olds were doing pre calculus, when I was fourteen we were doing pre algebra, now I
know eighteen year olds at Universities who are stuck on pre algebra.
It's the same thing everywhere I look, it's appalling.
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Anyway, my point is that it's not just Keynesian economics, it's an entire spectrum of thought that now overwhelmingly
dominates western society.
Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:23 pm
Stevemata wrote:
Keynesianism would prescribe,
hollowing out economies and looting the generators of wealth so that inefficient governments and economies can
survive without death and rebirth.
Keynesianism makes socialist spending respectable, doesn' it, however the System becomes unstuck when there is a
catastrophic mountain of debt threatening global stability, "good money after bad money" and "throw money at the
problem" come to mind. The Pattern Repeats Itself like the Seasons.
Quote:
If one farmer were going out of business, would you loot the other farmers to keep him in business or would you tell
him to plant different crops? In the United States we have bad farmers planting bad crops or even being paid not to
plant crops so that the price of those bad crops can stay high and the bad farmers can stay in business.
him to plant different crops?
In the United States we have bad farmers planting bad crops or even being paid not to plant crops so that the price
of those bad crops can stay high and the bad farmers can stay in business.
The issue is market-failure; if you may, by creating ever larger entities through mergers and acquisitions in Banking and
Finance, and prevent countries from collapsing, the prevention of the corrupt financial status quo is delayed, till it becomes
catastrophic. How long can this operation go through each iteration? Till the New Solution is offered by the same culprits or
their proxies. However this says; the Crises Perpetuation is engineered to compel the Populace in a particular direction, the
Solution each time involves Debt and Borrowing and Spending, something bankers derive Profits from, by lending till the
liquidity in the system runs out, then it can't be paid, the inflation is rampant and accelerating (Argentina in Economic
Crisis), the savings of the Middle and Working Classes are wiped out, I call that Weimerist Economics. Society is
polarised into Haves and Have-Nots, near the Classless Society, there is an Oligarchy in the making.
Neuromancer
Quote:
Systematic redistribution of wealth to the worst businesses and the worst workers and everyone involved but the
source of the money is profiting.
Bad Farmers, Bad Banks, Bad Politicians and Bad Economies.
The gist of this operation is waste capital and stop capital accumulation from reinvesting leading to economic stagnation, an
Army of Unemployed and Unemployables is created as raw material for Politicians and Demagogues to exploit. How can
you damage The Capitalist System's Production and Investment Factors? Change its factors! Undermine the Education of its
Human Resources, Undermine the Profit and Investment Cycle, pocket the Surpluses, pay off supporters with the loot on
the Redistribution Gravy Train.
Quote:
In a marathon, would you ever force the runners in front to slow down so the runners in back can keep up rather
than letting the losers try different sports?
Silly, ins't it, in market economies it is propping up the market failures to drain resources on the rest of the economy.
Quote:
My entire public education was formated so that the second worst student could pass, the worst student was moved
to a special class where everyone passes and everyone the same degrees and the same diplomas, everyone
passed.
The Reward System is removed, Education is centrally planned for Equal Outcome, irrespective of individual ability or
other issues, once again and in America, centralisation of education's national curriculum (predicating global curriculum)
is suspect, it is needed to sabotage the Nation on national level. This becomes the source of unemployability for the very
individuals it purports 'to help'. Equality of Outcome perpetuates Inequality.
There is Equality Before The Law, however the Game Play is changed when Individuals are Homogenised into the Lowest
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Common Denominators in Equality of Outcome, bureaucratise the performance and centralise control of it. It is about
damaging Capitalism's Human Resources.
It is a mind-conjob. It is the perpetuation of Inequality to exploit later in Politics. The Logic is flawed, by dragging people to
the level mediocrity. It is the Ethos of High Performance that must be crushed, the Principle it what it matters.
Quote:
When I was ten the fourteen year olds were doing pre calculus, when I was fourteen we were doing pre algebra,
now I know eighteen year olds at Universities who are stuck on pre algebra.
If you're good, you are good, the idea behind the above Equality of Outcome is to Demoralise the High Performers
to adjust the performance downwards and accept the hopelessness of it and their source of pride and effort.
Nice eh? Then exploit the Insecurity of the Under-performers to give them a reason and vested interest on the
Equality of Outcome System, so they defend it, because they know and it is simple logic it takes the bottom from under
them. Machiavellian Exploitation in other words.
Under-performers think they are helped, High-performers get hobbled and stop doing well, bureaucratic central planners
can display their statistics and claim credit for the high performance records.
It all has been done before.
Quote:
Like in Science; you must ask the right questions: Who sets the Educational Policies and why are they so obsessed with
Equality of Outcome without raising the performance of the under-performers? It is an injustice to the Under-performers by
concealing the real issue.
In Bureaucratspeak, it is perfomance by quotas, hence the discourse of increasing literacy levels and the consequential
performance targets. In this case the Performance Targets are national.
Quote:
Anyway, my point is that it's not just Keynesian economics, it's an entire spectrum of thought that now
overwhelmingly dominates western society.
You are saying the Issue is a both Sociological and Anthropological as well; that's what it takes to carry Social Engineering
to effect the Social Change and make sure it remains so.
Capitalism Must Be Crushed by reconfiguring its Social Actors from Cradle to the Grave, this will lead to Capitalism's
Systemic Failure, thus.....
Then it follows , in the False Problem with a False Solution, matter of fact it is the Predetermined Solution, the
proponents of the new system go by the usual motions of reform, besides undue wastage of resources it creates such
shortage of capital the Economic System can't regain its own Dynamism to regain economic growth and prosperity
(Economic Stagnation and falling standards of living -national income levels), the senior citizens used to remember, for
they remember 'the difference' it used to be better, much better.
Consider Systems Theory; many an academic, sociologist and global central planner are aware of Systems Theory which is
necessary to understand the present status quo and make the transition to the 'New System'. As a matter of it is the
concept driving Club of Rome (its founders and those dodgy and scary computer simulations) and the proponents of global
central planning in its many forms, to the extend of Technocratic Management of the World.
Think bigger, Think Systems Theory- Study thoroughly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Theory
Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:35 am
Nexus Re: WORLD CENTRAL BANK: DYSTOPIAN CAPITALISM OR SOCIALISM?

Inner Party Leader
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
I've pondered upon this a tad, and I don't agree with your analyses.
As I see it,
it's just libertarian paranoia.
Anything that threatens US capitalism must of course be an evil commie conspiracy.
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A 'conspiracy' call does not tell me whether it is fact or fiction, we are talking about a dystopian scenario here,
quick dismiss but floated by George Soros at Davos last week. Is George Soros and his banking cohorts commie
conspirators? Which one are you saying Nexus?
One capitalist agitates for a global central bank and you cry wolf. To think that 200+ countries suddenly would accept the
introduction of a global central bank, including Russia and China, is absurd. Since your theory is so ill-founded, I'll call it a
conspiracy theory.
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
You speak of Carbon Credits as if it could be used as a means of manipulation, and that's probably true.
However,
have you never heard of something called the DOLLAR? What's the bloody difference really?
You are speaking of the dying US Dollar as it is agonising...perhaps this is the 1950's Nexus with the US Dollar Value
at its peak?
If this carbon credit system is introduced, it will simply mean moving money from one faction of capitalists to another. As
far as I'm concerned, It's doublethink to criticise a carbon credit economy and not criticise the current dollar economy.
Same shit, different name.
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
There will not be a Global Central Bank in our lifetimes.
For your sake and mine I hope so and never.

Posts: 1865 Out of curiosity, exactly what would this Global Central Bank do that is so dangerous? For central banks to be efficient
Location: Airstrip North
instruments of manipulation, there need to be multiple currencies and interest rates in multiple nations.
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
As I've pointed out elsewhere,

we can't even make all Western nations ratify something as innocent as the UNICEF's Convention on the
Rights of the Child.
Seems to be a lot of 'righteous' investment for a mere convention, may be there is something down the track to this
innocuous-sounding convention will spring up on. I am going to have a look. Any way is it the job of the
non-democratic and foreign UNICEF to write up rights and obligations for governments and citizens outside its UN
jurisdiction to obey or be foolish enough to ratify? The UNICEF and ratification process bypasses the law-making by
democratically elected governments. Who is UNICEF accountable to and who are its personnel?
I think NOT.
For the second time, you miss the point. The point isn't whether it's right or wrong to ratify this convention. The point is
that if we can't even agree on a simple UNICEF convention, we are not likely to agree on a global central bank.
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
How on earth should we make all Western nations unite around a Global Central Bank?
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Intergovernmentalism, works at the regional level for the EU, create regional para-governments, take time over
several decades and we are there.
We have the same problem with your theory here: The European Central Bank can only serve as an instrument of
manipulation if there are other currencies and interest rates in other nations.
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
Furthermore, a Global Central Bank would in fact be less powerful than for instance the USA's Federal
Reserve.
We are talking in the present tense, correct, however a Global Central Bank that pools the funds from the world's
central banks is a different case.
So, let's say that they - however they are - manage to pool all funds in a global central bank. What would they do with
them?
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
Also, a Global Central Bank would out of necessity have to be publicly owned.
Works for saddling the public finances with debt and borrowing, it has to appear to be public for private benefit,
Murphy's Law at work. Who pays for the World Central Bank's debt Nexus?
As always, it will be the tax payers. I can't understand how you can be for a system which works this way.
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
I think the creation of a World Government is inevitable.
May be you know something about the future we don't? A better crystal ball? Democratic or appearance thereof is
another thing....Karl Marx and many others believe in Historical Determinism as a predetermined outcome.
Mankind will face big problems which will require global cooperation and coordination. I'm sorry, but I don't think your
beloved libertarian capitalism somehow will be able to solve these problems with market magic.
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
First, it's a logical step in the evolution of human civilisation

: Flock → Tribe → Village → City State → Kingdom → Nation → Intergovernmental Union → World
Government.
Sounds like a world federalist speaking here, here comes the "World Problematique" discourse to save us all. For the
Intergovernmental Union you need to explain and assure that the same issues that affect the nation-states will not
and will not with certainty degenerate into a Intergovernmental Union (at its directive-writing commissars ) as an
utterly dysfunctional entity amplified at World Government level -too much bloody government, red tape never
dreamed of. A mockery of a World Parliament will be necessary to give it a level of minimal respectability.
How long will the mask remain attached is moot.
Indeed, this is what future world federalists will have to be careful about. A world federation bureaucracy could easily
become gigantic, labyrinthic, and opaque. The best way to counter this would of course be a high degree of
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decentralisation and autonomy; the federal government would only deal with problems that truly are global in nature.
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
Intergovernmental Union → World Government.
This is not coincidence but you are referring to regional and global empires here, you skipped some large and
long term government organisations, as for the EU if you may, people living in the Western Eurasian Peninsula
qualify as 'Europeans', that's stretching the concept very thinly and far in the same way we could stretch Christianity
and citizenship and the Holy Roman Empire as a Transnational Government. Then there is the Soviet Union and its
'federation'. As for the US, at least it has homogeneity to justify the citizenship and a federal cause, which was from
its birth with the founding colonies. But for Europe or Eastern Europe? And inevitable historical process and
outcome? This is ideological stuff.
Good points. It doesn't really change anything, though. The development throughout human history has been towards
larger and larger communities.
As for the USA, is it really that homogeneous? I'd say that it will be dominated by Hispanics at the end of this century,
probably even earlier than that.
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
However,
we will not live to see the creation of a World Government,
Is this supposed to be some form of comforting statement with such prediction of the future?
What is it that you fear? The USA has problems controlling two rebellious countries in the Third World. Do you think a World
Federation would be able to control the whole world, more than six billion people, without their consent?
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
at least not the kind you think of.
World Government...and what is it that you think I think of by the way?
You seem to think of some kind of global dictatorship. I'd say this impossible. I'm thinking of a world federation, which I
think is the only workable option.
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
Finally, have faith in the people.
I am not a religious guy though, that's wishful passive thinking. Wars are not won through prayers and good wishes
of optimists.
Alright, buy a good history book instead, then.
Neuromancer wrote:
You are willing to gamble the lives of millions to prove your point that somehow a fully disarmed populace with a
heritage of revolution and democracy will win the civil war against a fully armed tyranny with tanks, secret police,
guns and paraphernalia of military might will somehow call it the day.
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This is very optimistic to a fault and if it comes to pass, very irresponsible to human life from the Future Generation
doing the Fight perspective.
Ever heard of Vietnam and Afghanistan? Multiple this with 10 or possibly 100, and you realise what kind of problems a
world-wide dictatorship would have to face. This is pure paranoia.
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
You come from young nations which have to unite around your governments,
but as a European,
coming from a continent with a rich history of resistance and revolution,
I can tell you that there's always a limit for what people are prepared to accept.
I take this as a patronising statement, we all know Europe will always be better, etc, etc, etc.
We all know that younger nations always will have an inferiority complex too.
Neuromancer wrote:
It seems 'Europeans' have a slow learning curve in dealing tyrannies throughout history like everyone else, given
their record up to the mid 1940's or the so-called coming down of the symbolic Berlin Wall. That's 20 or so years,
sounds like the learning curve is still at play here Nexus, how many people went to the gulag and the firing squads
before they got sick of the Tyranny -well?
I think you forget that Europe has a very strong tradition of people’s revolts and revolutions. Although the history books
seldom mention it, peasants’ revolts were very common in Europe until the 19th century. There was even something that
actually could be called proto-Socialist revolution attempts in the 13th-15th centuries. I guess that you could say that the
English Revolution – you know, Cromwell and his New Model Army – and the French Revolution were culminations rather
than isolated events; basically, they only had clearer ideologies and goals than previous revolts.
This rebellious spirit survived into the 20th century, but took new expressions; usually different means of worker
obstruction and sabotage, most notably strikes. The strikes were more numerous than we can imagine today: for instance,
1199 strikes occurred in Germany January-July 1914! There were even strikes in fighting countries during WWI! The
strikers often managed to achieve a lot. Thanks to a massive strike in 1905, Finland basically gained partial autonomy from
Russia: the integration into Russia was halted and a national parliament introduced.
What many people don’t know is that the Russian Revolution – and I’m talking about the Menshevik revolution, not the
Bolshevik “revolution” – wasn’t an isolated event. In my own country, red flags waved in Stockholm and our king had an
emergency evacuation plan; the indirect results of the social unrest were better working conditions and modern
democracy. In some places, there were more radical revolts. For instance, Soviet Republics were proclaimed in Bremen,
Bavaria, Slovakia and Hungary in 1919. These revolts were usually quite peaceful in nature, but nevertheless brutally
crushed by the right-wing controlled national armies.
I’m not going to go into the various revolts before, during and after WWII. Let me just remind you of the resistance
against the Nazi rule throughout Europe, and the revolts against the Soviet oppression in East Berlin 1953, Budapest 1956
and Prague 1968. These Europeans hated their new governments so bitterly that they were prepared to die fighting them.
Compare this with the USA and Australia. You are sheep.
Neuromancer wrote:
The "Preparation to accept Tyranny" statement is pure conceit, how can disarmed people pose a threat or effectively
oppose or overthrow tyranny without actual capacity to do it?
You need to be realist, either arm the people as an insurance policy or do not indulge in the possibility of
government degenerating into a tyranny in the first place.
Creating a regional or world government with such resources (military resources and wealth) is flirting with such
tyranny that can murder people in the millions to remain as a hegemonic power.
Alright, let's say that there will be a local revolt, by world federation standards; "only" 100 million people decide to riot in
the streets. What should the world government do to stop this? Or let's just say that every tenth person, "only" 600 million
people, would refuse to go to work. Should the world government send in tanks to force them back to work? The idea that
it would be possible to rule the whole world the way you envision is pure paranoia.
21 ofCreate
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
At a certain point,
they will revolt,
even if it means risking their lives.
How about we don't get the regional and world government in the fist place and save the gamble and the lives of
millions in the first place? Sounds economical with human life and way more rational than indulging in such an
exercise in geo-political suicide.
What makes you think millions of people will die? Why do you think it's geo-political suicide?
Neuromancer wrote:
So are you for the World Govt et al Nexus? You are denying the analysis of world government instrumentalities
(world central bank and so on) but agreeing in the thrust for it at large. I am confused about your position here.
I'm for world federalism in the same way I'm for anarchism: I embrace it at heart, but I know it's utopian. Hence, I don't
agitate for it, because it would be futile. That doesn't mean that I'm buying your libertarian paranoia straight off, though.
_________________
Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:56 am
Neuromancer wrote:
Nexus wrote:
I've pondered upon this a tad,

and I don't agree with your analyses.
As I see it, it's just libertarian paranoia.
Anything that threatens US capitalism must of course be an
evil commie conspiracy.
Nexus
Inner Party Leader
Hmm, besides the indirect rhetoric and claque by Chavez, Morales and Castro there, Conspiracy Theory Label raises
its ugly head again, seems to explain away just about anything nowdays Nexus...oh well...if it passes by as a
rationalisation....
What do Chavez, Morales, and Castro have to do with this? Are you by default a South American (pseudo-) socialist if you
dare criticising the USA?
So far, you have quoted Soros and noted that there's a summit; this is all your circumstancial evidence, if one can call it
that. In other words, you present an ill-founded and illogical theory, which suggests that unnamed men want to take
control of the whole world; both capitalists and socialists are evidently involved. This is basically a textbook case of a
conspiracy theory.

Posts: 1865
Location: Airstrip North Neuromancer wrote:
The question is why is a Uber Capitalist Financier like Soros seek to support it?
What can I say, this raises the flag immediately Nexus in what contradictions are concerned.
I have to ask this question is it a commie conspiracy, is it libertarian paranoia?
Given that the problems and solutions come from America, like with poisonous spiders and snakes, they are also the
source for the anti-venom to cure the victim.
Soros is hardly a saint, but just because he says something, it doesn't become true. He's hardly the spokesman for
politicians and capitalists around the world.
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Besides, what do you have against Soros? Considering your ideology, you should consider him a hero.
Neuromancer wrote:
Quote:
[..]must of course be an evil commie conspiracy.
Can you argue against the historical Communist Manifesto's point for a central bank and income tax, Nexus? I
think not.
Marx didn't invent the central bank and as far as I know, all Western countries have central banks. Does this mean that
Marx used a time machine and that all Western countries are Marxist? Surely, you must realise how ridiculous this line of
reasoning is.
Neuromancer wrote:
Central control of the capitalist economy, kills the Capitalist Birds with one stone, taxation, inflation, speculation,
high interest rates and then recession. Screw the capitalists good. LOL.
But I am digressing with this form of humour.
Not much of a joke, but it's quite revealing There's a serious flaw in your ideological reasoning: What you haven't realised
yet is that capitalism can exist, but not thrive without a strong state.
Neuromancer wrote:
Let's have a look at this Mr George Soros's mind.
George Soros as Paul Warburg [PW] of the 21st Century:

why does he want a World Central Bank?
Project Syndicate wrote:
A New World Architecture

George Soros
NEW YORK – Twenty years after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of communism, the world is facing
another stark choice between two fundamentally different forms of organization: international capitalism and
state capitalism.
The former, represented by the United States, has broken down, and the latter, represented by China, is on
the rise.
Following the path of least resistance will lead to the gradual disintegration of the international financial
system.
A new multilateral system based on sounder principles must be invented.
While international cooperation on regulatory reform is difficult to achieve on a piecemeal basis, it may be
attainable in a grand bargain that rearranges the entire financial order.
A new Bretton Woods conference, like the one that established the post-WWII international
financial architecture, is needed to establish new international rules, including treatment of
financial institutions that are too big to fail and the role of capital controls. It would also have to
reconstitute the International Monetary Fund to reflect better the prevailing pecking order
23 ofCreate
among states and to revise its methods of operation.
In addition, a new Bretton Woods would have to reform the currency system. The post-war order,
which made the US more equal than others, produced dangerous imbalances.
The dollar no longer enjoys the trust and confidence that it once did, yet no other currency can
take its place.
The US ought not to shy away from wider use of IMF Special Drawing Rights. Because SDRs are denominated
in several national currencies, no single currency would enjoy an unfair advantage.[...]
In addition, a new Bretton Woods would have to reform the currency system. The post-war order, which
made the US more equal than others, produced dangerous imbalances. The dollar no longer enjoys the trust
and confidence that it once did, yet no other currency can take its place.
The US ought not to shy away from wider use of IMF Special Drawing Rights. Because SDRs are
denominated in several national currencies, no single currency would enjoy an unfair advantage.
The range of currencies included in the SDRs would have to be widened, and some of the newly
added currencies, including the renminbi, may not be fully convertible.
This would, however, allow the international community to press China to abandon its exchange-rate peg to
the dollar and would be the best way to reduce international imbalances. And the dollar could still remain the
preferred reserve currency, provided it is prudently managed.
One great advantage of SDRs is that they permit the international creation of money, which is
particularly useful at times like the present. The money could be directed to where it is most
needed, unlike what is happening currently. A mechanism that allows rich countries that don’t need
additional reserves to transfer their allocations to those that do is readily available, using the IMF’s gold
reserves.
[...]
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/soros52/English
So, the USA is trying to find a new method of dominating global economics. What else is new?
Neuromancer wrote:
Consider this in relation to the structure and creation of the World Bank Group [1]
Indeed, The World Bank is the UN's Central Bank, so Mr Soros is speaking about reforming the World Bank so it
morphs proper into a paragovernment if not an outright central bank.
What is left is to bridge the gap between 200 or so central banks, whittle them down to three regional central banks
and then One Global Central Bank under some euphemistic name.
So, I ask you again: What would this global central bank do?
Neuromancer wrote:
As for the next, there are steps afoot to implement a Global Central Bank and a System of Global Taxation [2] by UN
organs.
Time for a reality check. The UN can't even make the USA pay its membership fee. How on earth should they make the
USA pay taxes? Or Russia? China? India? Folly.
Neuromancer wrote:
Need I say more....more momentum is needed...keep your eyes peeled.
I won't hold my breath.
Neuromancer wrote:
In another thread you remarked that you were an anarchist at heart, however how can you reconcile regional,
global governments against the intrinsic spirit of minimalist if non-existing government as proposed by Anarchism?
Unless your anarchism is simply to do away with the Present Order in the interim to install two layers of more
government.
So Anarchism would be transitional to what can be called Global Statism for the lack of a better word.
24 ofCreate
I'm an anarchist at heart, just as I'm a pacifist at heart. That doesn't mean that I necessarily agitate for anarchism, just
that I believe it would be the best systems in an ideal world. However, mankind is not ready for anarchism, if it ever will
be.
I don't know where you get the idea that I'm for statism from. Just because I refuse to kiss the feet of capitalists like you
do, you automatically assume that I want to kiss the feet of politicians instead. The only thing I've ever said is that
politicians are the lesser evil because they at least theoretically can be voted out of office. Have you ever consider the
possibility that there's a third way?
_________________
Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:20 pm
Stevemata wrote:
Keynesianism would prescribe, hollowing out economies and looting the generators of wealth so that inefficient
governments and economies can survive without death and rebirth.
So you are saying that the goal of Keynesianism is to destroy the economy? Or are you saying that the current economic
system is flawed since it's built on Keynesianism, both past and present?
Stevemata wrote:
him to plant different crops? In the United States we have bad farmers planting bad crops or even being paid not to
plant crops so that the price of those bad crops can stay high and the bad farmers can stay in business.
Systematic redistribution of wealth to the worst businesses and the worst workers and everyone involved but the
Nexus
Inner Party Leader
source of the money is profiting. Bad Farmers, Bad Banks, Bad Politicians and Bad Economies.
In a marathon, would you ever force the runners in front to slow down so the runners in back can keep up rather
than letting the losers try different sports?
My entire public education was formated so that the second worst student could pass, the worst student was moved
to a special class where everyone passes and everyone the same degrees and the same diplomas, everyone
passed.
When I was ten the fourteen year olds were doing pre calculus, when I was fourteen we were doing pre algebra,
now I know eighteen year olds at Universities who are stuck on pre algebra.

Posts: 1865
Location: Airstrip North Damn, your country is really fucked up, man. I'm glad I'm European.
Stevemata wrote:
Anyway, my point is that it's not just Keynesian economics, it's an entire spectrum of thought that now
overwhelmingly dominates western society.
So how come the Western world is the richest part of the world even though it has used these flawed Keynesian economics
and "wealth redistribution" as you call it? Do you know any rich countries which haven't used Keynesian economics or
haven't got welfare systems of some kind?
_________________
Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:27 pm
25 ofCreate
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Exploring Dystopia - View Topic - World Central Bank - Dystopian Capitalism or Socialism - 1

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WORLD CENTRAL BANK: DYSTOPIAN CAPITALISM OR SOCIALISM?

WORLD CENTRAL BANK: DYSTOPIAN CAPITALISM OR SOCIALISM?

WORLD CENTRAL BANK:

When it comes to currencies, one global currency would be possible,

Will they succeed?

*** Notes ***

[1] Global Keynesianism

A Replacement for the US Dollar

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:24 am

Re: WORLD CENTRAL BANK: DYSTOPIAN CAPITALISM OR SOCIALISM?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:11 pm

Re: WORLD CENTRAL BANK: DYSTOPIAN CAPITALISM OR SOCIALISM?

It is time we saddled up and get ready..... for Global Financial Dystopia...

*** Notes ***

Special Drawing Rights :

By whatever means it must be a Blitzkrieg...

[2] Energy Accounting Currency

Technocracy's position on the Price Market System

[3] Energy Distribution Card

HE ENERGY DISTRIBUTION CARD

[4] Carbon Ration Card

[6] Sustainable Development

[8] Central Planning

Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:04 am

Re: WORLD CENTRAL BANK: DYSTOPIAN CAPITALISM OR SOCIALISM?

WELCOME! Forum Policy BBCode Tutorial

Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:05 pm

Re: WORLD CENTRAL BANK: DYSTOPIAN CAPITALISM OR SOCIALISM?

There will not be a Global Central Bank in our lifetimes.

For your sake and mine I hope so and never.

As I've pointed out elsewhere,

I think the creation of a World Government is inevitable.

First, it's a logical step in the evolution of human civilisation

mockery of a World Parliament will be necessary to give it a level of minimal respectability.

Intergovernmental Union → World Government.

at least not the kind you think of.

World Government...and what is it that you think I think of by the way?

Finally, have faith in the people.

Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: WORLD CENTRAL BANK: DYSTOPIAN CAPITALISM OR SOCIALISM?

And the potential for corruption? Unlimited on a global scale,

*** Notes ***

Carbon Offsets Daily

This is a form of Economic Warfare against the Democratic Nation-state.

Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:09 am

Re: WORLD CENTRAL BANK: DYSTOPIAN CAPITALISM OR SOCIALISM?

I've pondered upon this a tad,

[..]must of course be an evil commie conspiracy.

But I am digressing with this form of humour.

Let's have a look at this Mr George Soros's mind.

George Soros as Paul Warburg [PW] of the 21st Century:

Project Syndicate wrote:

A New World Architecture

*** notes ***

[pw] Paul Warburg, biography by the US Federal Reserve of Minneapolis

See point 7 on Global Central Bank.

See point 9 on Global Taxation

* Notes *

* Notes *

* Notes *

* notes *