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BNC Cable & Word Clock termination

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Thread Tools 28th September 2006, 03:29 AM

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theblotted
Lives for gear

BNC Cable & Word Clock termination

i'm currently using RME FF800 & M-Audio FW1814. i want to sycm them well, lock'em tight. i have FF800 as the Master, FW1814 as Slave. but they don't play well together when it comes to sync'ing.
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,302 Thread Starter

so i'm getting a nice BNC cable to send Word Clock, cuz my guess is that FW1814 is having a bit trouble reconstructing sync from just ADAT. since i will probably never have FW1814 doing Master and FF800 as Slave, in theory i should just simply have one BNC cable from FF800 Out to FW1814 In, correct? also, if this is the case, then do i still need a T-bar for termination; or can i simply terminate it at the respective interface's other Word Clock end (a la SCSI termination)? so for FF800, termination @ WC In; FW1814 @ WC Out? would love to hear some thoughts on this. __________________ "You can imagine where it goes from here." "He fixes the cable?"

28th September 2006, 04:20 AM

#2

ImJohn
Lives for gear

I got my T's and Canare terminator from here, it's a good place! : http://cinemasupplies.stores.yahoo.net/bncvidcon.html I'm not familiar with your gear but you will probably just need 1 BNC cable, 1 'T' and 1 terminator. (make sure to use a 75 ohm cables and terminator, not the 50 ohm ones that are . . .or rather were used a lot for computer 10-baseT networking.)

Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: WA USA Posts: 1,431

The main thing for you to worry about / find out is if the unit you are going to slave has auto-termination or not and if so, is it defeatable? read on . . . Connect one BNC cable directly to the master unit's word clock output (no T or terminator) and then connect the other end to a T that should be connected to your slave unit's word clock input. Attach a terminator to the free end of the T. If your slave unit has auto-termination and you can't turn it off, skip the T and terminator and just plug the cable from the master unit right into the slave's word clock in. My setup consists of two seperate Lavry A/D converter boxes and a Lynx AES-16 interface card. Unfortunately the Lynx had non defeatable auto-termination. So I just go from the word out of the first Lavry A/D into the word in of the second Lavry via a T connector and then from the T right into the Lynx input (no T or terminator) This all works fine when the computer is on because the Lynx auto termination is active. On occasions where the computer isn't on, the second lavry wont lock because the Lynx auto-termination isn't active! No big deal because when the computer is off I'm usually only doing 2 channel stuff and i don't need all the A/D channels. With the computer off, I could put a T and terminator on the Lynx input and the second Lavry would work fine, but as soon as I turn the computer on things will get screwed up again (too much termination going on or something) Best of luck! __________________ John L Rice http://www.youtube.com/JohnLRice

28th September 2006, 07:03 AM

#3

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theblotted
Lives for gear

hey John, thanks for such a detailed response. that makes it very clear and easy to understand. i'm gonna email M-Audio tech support to see if they can answer the termination question. i do know that the FW1814 doesn't have a termination able/disable, but i still like to hear what their take is on it, whether having a T-bar/termination will help or not.

Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,302 Thread Starter

28th September 2006, 03:19 PM

#4
50

macmod
Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 246

Hi John, I could only find the 50 ohm type terminator. What could go wrong using that one? Best regards, Macmod

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImJohn I got my T's and Canare terminator from here, it's a good place! : http://cinemasupplies.stores.yahoo.net/bncvidcon.html I'm not familiar with your gear but you will probably just need 1 BNC cable, 1 'T' and 1 terminator. (make sure to use a 75 ohm cables and terminator, not the 50 ohm ones that are . . .or rather were used a lot for computer 10-baseT networking.) The main thing for you to worry about / find out is if the unit you are going to slave has auto-termination or not and if so, is it defeatable? read on . . . Connect one BNC cable directly to the master unit's word clock output (no T or terminator) and then connect the other end to a T that should be connected to your slave unit's word clock input. Attach a terminator to the free end of the T. If your slave unit has auto-termination and you can't turn it off, skip the T and terminator and just plug the cable from the master unit right into the slave's word clock in. My setup consists of two seperate Lavry A/D converter boxes and a Lynx AES-16 interface card. Unfortunately the Lynx had non defeatable auto-termination. So I just go from the word out of the first Lavry A/D into the word in of the second Lavry via a T connector and then from the T right into the Lynx input (no T or terminator) This all works fine when the computer is on because the Lynx auto termination is active. On occasions where the computer isn't on, the second lavry wont lock because the Lynx auto-termination isn't active! No big deal because when the computer is off I'm usually only doing 2 channel stuff and i don't need all the A/D channels. With the computer off, I could put a T and terminator on the Lynx input and the second Lavry would work fine, but as soon as I turn the computer on things will get screwed up again (too much termination going on or something) Best of luck! __________________ http://www.juliaP.com http://myspace.com/juliaPmusic

28th September 2006, 07:33 PM

#5

tINY
Lives for gear

The impedance is mis-matched an there will be some ringing. Of course, even with a 75 ohm terminator sitting on a T there will be some mis-match. Try it - it'll probably work fine.
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 9,899

-tINY

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29th September 2006, 01:53 PM

#6
Quote:

macmod
Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 246

Originally Posted by tINY

The impedance is mis-matched an there will be some ringing. Of course, even with a 75 ohm terminator sitting on a T there will be some mis-match. Try it - it'll probably work fine.

-tINY

Thanks tINY. Meanwhile I have daisychained because I've only 2 devices. One is terminated, the other not. So it goed like this: Swissonic WC out->WC in (unterminated convertor) ->WC out (same unterminated convertor) ->WC in soundcard (which is terminated). Works allright. Tried the 50 ohm terminator. Works allright too. But I wouldn't know how to hear the 'ringing' you mention... Regards, Macmod

30th September 2006, 06:52 AM

#7

tINY
Lives for gear

You won't hear that ringing - it only effects the eye of the clock signal. It can induce some jitter (though a clock should have pretty consistent content and should be repeatable). If you loose sync, that's when you know that the ringing is a problem. Before that, you'd have to test it by recording some test signals from very precise sources and do some fancy math.
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 9,899

-tINY

30th September 2006, 11:19 AM

#8
Quote:

Gilliland
Gear maniac Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 278

Originally Posted by macmod Hi John, I could only find the 50 ohm type terminator. What could go wrong using that one? The 75 ohm terminator is definitely the right one to use. Nonetheless, I've been using 50 ohm terminators on 75 ohm cable for years now without any trouble whatsoever.

30th September 2006, 06:43 PM

#9
Quote:

ImJohn
Lives for gear

Originally Posted by macmod Hi John, I could only find the 50 ohm type terminator. What could go wrong using that one? Best regards, Macmod

Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: WA USA Posts: 1,431

Hi macmod, Like the other guys said, a 75 ohm terminator is the correct and best one to use, although a 50 ohm one might work too. Since 75 ohm terminators are under $5, I don't see a real reason not to get one. See the link in my first post on a good place to get a nice Canare terminator or on Ebay do a search on '75 bnc term*' and you'll find several different auctions where you can get one for about $1.00.

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2nd October 2006, 02:00 PM

#10

macmod
Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 246

thanks guys thumbsup Macmod

9th October 2006, 10:27 PM

#11

theblotted
Lives for gear

just wanted to say thanks all for posting this thread. i got my BNC cable (from Redco) last week, and it's been awesome. i ordered it w/ the Gotham cable. i know, it's a bit slutty for a mere 6 footer, but i figured it'll prob last me awhile.

Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,302 Thread Starter

before i had the BNC cable, i had FF800 and FW1814 sync via ADAT. this causes my computer to spit out some sudden spikes of feedback noise @ start-up and shut-down (BLEEP BLIP BLEEP!!). at times i forget to have the volume pretty high, and i always fear these spikes might blow my monitors. after installing this BNC cable (w/ no termination), no more bleeps; and the two coexist w/ my G5 happily. it locks and syncs real fast and very very stable. so thanks again. happy user here!

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