Comments on a post on the requested Z\zoning changes from recreations to low density

residential at the Ocean Palms Gold Course at the south end of Flagler Beach saved by
an interested party.

Original post lost when the blog was maliciously deleted by persons unknown.

____________________

As A property owner whose property butts up to the Ocean Palm Golf Course, I am quite
concerned as to what they plan on doing with the course. This 37 acres was zoned
"Recreation Only" how can they now make it a housing development. According to the
proposed plans they want to put 4 homes on a 1 acre parcel The course covers 37 acres.
Do the math people. 148 homes with probably 2 cars per home. My home had to be 6 1/2
feet above sea level in 1994. When we get a rainfall of 2 inches the entire back section of
the course is flooded. Also #4 & #6 fairways are under water. If we were to have a tropical
storm such as Fay, all our homes will be destroyed. Also, what about the cost to the town.
MORE police, fireman, trash disposal, sewers, and traffic control when there is an
evacuation. There are only two (2) available accesses to get in and out of the area.
These people didn't make money because they didn't want to.
They let the course go to pot so the golfers would go elsewhere. That was their plan from
day one.

Sep 13, 2008 6:16:00 PM

blog editor said...

anon, looking at the map, there seems to be only one way in and out and that seems like
a dangerous situation.

If you read the prospectus, you will see they paid scant attention to flooding, but had
page after page of traffic surveys ...

Given our city officials' romance with developers, it's unlikely they will deny this request.

If you have any more information, especially about who the principals are, put it into an
email and send it to the email at the top of the page and I'll post it for others to see.

I won't print your name if you'd rather not make it public.

Sep 13, 2008 7:46:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Where did they get that picture????

NO WAY does Flagler Beach look like this picture. Come on guys. Who do you think you
are kidding. Do you think we are stupid??????

Sep 13, 2008 11:20:00 PM

blog editor said...

1
 anon 2

Yes, lacking evidence to the contrary, they do think we're stupid.

Sep 14, 2008 8:34:00 AM

Anonymous said...

This is wrong to change the zoning law.. I think we would end up with a lot of problems
with both people trying to sell existing homes and leaving plus those trying to sell newly
built empty homes.... This would promote a lot of unkept property and dangerous
neighborhood situations. Flooding, traffic flow, city services, They would all have to be
increased. Why do we have laws like "Recreation Use Only" when all they have to do is
take another vote and change it back to a housing development for the profit of a few
investors...
Lets not destroy this beautiful, peaceful piece of Flagler Beach that people go back home
and praise as one of the best vacation spots in Florida...

Sep 14, 2008 11:35:00 AM

Anon, are you the same person who made the earlier comment?

If everyone uses a nickname for comments, we can all have a conversation.

BTW - don't forget the city commission is about to make absentee ownership a lot more
profitable by changing the short-term rental ordinance.

Check the labels along the right hand column if you don't know what your elected officials
have in store for us tax payers.

Sep 14, 2008 11:42:00 AM

Anonymous said...

I am not the same person who left the first message...I do agree with that person and that
is what prompted me to write.... My username is Interested neighbor and I would be glad
to enter into a conversation....
Lets not let someone take over for their own profit and ruin our home here..

Sep 14, 2008 12:38:00 PM

blog editor said...

Interested neighbor, sign in with that name under Name/URL, then we'll know who you
are and welcome.

No we shouldn't "let someone take over for their own profit and ruin our home here.."

This isn't the only issue facing our town. Check the other posts for more reasons to get
involved.

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 Sep 14, 2008 3:23:00 PM

Anonymous said...

PLEASE do not sell this golf course. The owners would not be losing money if they had
kept a reasonable price to play golf. They instead raised the price to play nine holes of
golf the same, if not more, than it would cost to play 18 holes at a completive course.
Pure greed!!! This land was zoned Recreational and it should continue to stay
Recreational. PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE THE ZONING OF THE OCEAN PALM GOLF
COURSE.

Sep 15, 2008 9:27:00 AM

anon, why not send an email to the Flagler Beach commission? I've posted a link to their
email addresses at the top of the blog.

Sep 15, 2008 12:32:00 PM

Golfer313 said...

Hope you are having a great day.

I just sent a rather long email to the Mayor and Commissioners.
Would you like a copy? My name and address is on the email but you know me as
Golfer313

Sep 16, 2008 1:58:00 PM

Colleen said...

There will be a neighborhood meeting regarding the future of the golf course on Thursday
the 18th at 6 pm at 229 Ocean Palm Drive. Anyone interested in helping defeat the land
zone change is encouraged to attend.

Sep 16, 2008 9:43:00 PM

GOLFER313 said...

JUST PICKED UP THE AGENDA FOR THE FLAGLER BEACH PLANNING AND
ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD, DATE TUESDAY OCTOBER 7TH, 5:30 pm
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF FLAGLER BEACH, FLORIDA, ADOPTING A LARGE
SCALE MAP AMENDMENT TO THE FLAGLER BEACH COMPREHENSIVE PLAN;
CHANGING THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP DESIGNATION ON 2.942 ACRES FROM
HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL TO LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL; CHANGING THE
FUTURE LAND USE MAP DESIGNATION ON A CONTIGUOUS 34 ACRE PARCEL
FROM RECREATIONAL TO LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL; APPROVING THE
TRANSMITTAL OF THE AMENDMENT TO THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
COMMUNITY AFFAIRS IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 163.3184, FLORIDA
STATUTES; PROVIDING FOR CONFLICT AND SEVERABILITY, AND PROVIDING AN
EFFECTIVE DATE.
_________________
OK RESIDENCE OF FLAGLER BEACH
THIS 2.942 ACRES IS THE DRIVING RANGE AT THE OCEAN PALM GOLF COURSE.

3
 THE 34 ACRES IS THE GOLF COURSE ITSELF. CIRCLE THIS DATE AND ATTEND
THIS MEETING. THE CITY MUST FIND A WAY TO STOP THE MASS DEVELOPMENT.

Sep 19, 2008 7:56:00 PM

blog editor said...

golfer 313, click here for an online version. You can check out agendas and minutes, etc.
for city commission, boards and committees at the city website here.

How did the meeting go last night?

Sep 20, 2008 9:26:00 AM

Anonymous said...

We don't need any more homes In Flagler beach that will not sell until the market
drastically improves. All that will happen is empty homes, more flooding, and no help to
the tax base.
We need the golf course run my a responsible business person that could defiantly profit.
Not more potential flooding

Sep 20, 2008 9:55:00 AM

The meeting was fantastic, thanks for asking. People wall to wall. Should have a pretty
good turn out when this developer goes before the Commissioners. Do you know how we
can find out if there are any local investors in this project??

Sep 20, 2008 1:32:00 PM

Anonymous said...

It's time we all stand together and fight to keep Ocean Palm Golf Course. The majority of
snow birds that rent condos and homes along the golf course come because of the golf
course. By eliminating the golf course will definitely have a tremendous impact on long
term rentals. Flagler Beach should consider taking over the golf course -- it's definitely an
asset for the city and would be a money maker if it was managed properly. The reason
it's gone under is because it's had extremely poor management. SAVE OCEAN PALM
GOLF COURSE !!!

Sep 21, 2008 1:21:00 PM

Anonymous said...

4
 Why in the world would Flagler Beach commissioners allow a developer to build homes
on Ocean Palm Golf Course? I hope they use their heads when makimg this decision.
This land has always been zoned "Recreational" and should remain "Recreational" -- and
as a golf course. Many families purcased homes along Ocean Palm Golf Course because
of their love for the game. I was one of those persons. For thirty plus years I have
enjoyed playing Ocean Palm Golf Course. It's only been the past couple of years that the
present owners have let the course go to pot. They raised the price and showed no
improvement on the course. This left many daily players to go to other courses where
they could play 18 holes for the same price being paid for 9 holes at OPGC with a cart.
Does this make any business sense? Let's make sure that the commissioners of Flagler
Beach make the right decision. Thank you!!!

Sep 21, 2008 1:39:00 PM

Ocean Palm Property Owner said...

Hey, Anonymous! Get a clue, will ya?

The reason the golf course is under water during a heavy rain is because of the lack of
an adequate storm water management on the site. Any properly conceived development
plan is going to have to address this. Stop yelling the "Sky is Falling" and realize that a
reputable developer will only enhance the value of the homes in the area.

And do you think 4 homes to the acre is dense? Do you realize that most multifamily
communities (which is what Ocean Palm Villas are) is easily twice that density?

And as far as the cost of community services, do you think you're taxes are adequate to
support the level of municipal services we need? I can tell you that in the face of
escalalting costs, the City of Flagler Beach needs ratables just like every other city in
America. So, should we just raise everyone's taxes?

Do you think that just because you live here you have a right to stop the owners of the
golf course property from developing it? That's called the old, "Last one over the bridge
philosophy," which means you're saying, "I got mine, now lets' keep everybody else out."

Use some common sense. Attend the meetings. Ask good questions.
Be concerned, but be informed and work with the City and the developers to create a
plan that benefits everyone.

On the other hand, if you really want to stop the development of this property, there is
only one sure way: Buy it!

Sincerely

Sep 24, 2008 3:48:00 PM

Are you serious!! Yes, a developer can come in here and possibly fix the stormwater
issue. But this is not any piece of property, this track fall smack in the middle of the ocean
and the intercoastal waterway. You're dead wrong to think this is an easy fix. That's why
St. Johns River Water Management hasn't signed off on the project. This is not about
"NIMBY" (not in my back yard) - there are plenty of people out side of the ocean palm
neighborhood that don't want to see the course close. The course has intentionally been
run into the ground. The developer purchased a Golf Course zoned recreation, not future
land for development but a recreationally zoned GOLF COURSE. You sound more like an

5
 investor than a neighbor on Ocean Palm. My home is zoned residential but maybe I'll
open a deli. Wonder if the city would change my zoning??? I bet it would bring additional
tax dollars in.

Sep 24, 2008 7:54:00 PM

Colleen said...

Anyone interested in this issue please join us tomorrow night for the Flagler Beach
Commission Meeting. We will be meeting at the Library for a pre-commission meeting at
4:45. Please make every effort to attend and don't forget to wear your green shirts!!

There are a number of problems with this proposal - IT IS NOT A DONE DEAL!! Please
come out for this first meeting where we can share our concerns with the commissioners
during public comment. It's only fair that they know how you feel!! Please speak up and
speak out!

Sep 24, 2008 7:59:00 PM

blog editor said...

Coleen and anyone else who goes to the commission meeting Thursday night, please
send an email to the blog letting us know how it goes.

The commission is going to vote on a lot of things that will effect all of us for a long time.

Thanks.

Sep 24, 2008 11:25:00 PM

Concerned Homeowner said...

Looking at the comprehensive plan for the subdivision, it starts out with a preamble that
promises the world. As to drainage, they say they will fix it to save City money. However,
if you get inside the application, it says in regard to drainage "To the greatest extent
practical, this project will work with the city to help resolve this issue." I would imagine
down the road they will say it costs too much so it isn't practical. They have not even
bought the property yet so I doubt they have spent the money to get an estimate to see
what needs to be done and how much it will cost. I think the group in our neighborhood
needs to check the track record of the two companies involved. ie builder and site
engineer.
For the life of me I can't see how a circuit court could have invalidated prior agreements
that many of us bought homes thinking they were in effect. Why would one pay more to
be on a golf course if the golf course could be taken away.
Why don't they show a site plan that the property owners can analyze.
If development tears up existing roads will they repair them? Can restrictions be put on
construction as to certain hours and not on Sunday? Our quality of life will change
drastically.

Sep 25, 2008 3:02:00 PM

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Colleen said...

The meeting went very well tonight. Full house! Thank you to all who came out to voice
their concerns. I know many others were out of town and unable to. For those who can
make it, please come out on October 7th when the PAR Board will make a decision on
the comp. plan amendment. Again, thank you to all who were able to attend!!

Sep 25, 2008 8:38:00 PM

Here is one for the Commissioners All the ponds on the golf course are overflowing and
we haven't had any rain. The course now has multiple ponds in areas that have only seen
water from the sprinkling system. They should come and look at the Ocean Palm Golf
Course today. Water is seeping up from underneath the ground and flooding several
areas. Of course the birds and the alligators like all this water BUT I doubt very much if a
new homeowner would be very happy.
Study your conscience before changing the zoning of this property and permitting a
Housing Development.

Sep 27, 2008 4:01:00 PM

Anonymous said...

You people are really something. If the developer really wants this then make him pay for
the extra police and fire and trash and water pumps for the drainage to the area. 148
homes wether there are empty or not will be paying taxes which will make my taxes alittle
less. But o ye thats right you all dont want more houses to be built because then you
wont have as much to complain about. They need to build and build to get things moving
around here or we will be just like you all a bunch of retired miserable old people. If they
want it make pay for it.

Sep 27, 2008 8:57:00 PM

golfer313 said...

Check your mailbox. Received a letter form Vanasse Hangen Brustlin, Inc. stating there
will be a Neighborhood Meeting Oct. 2,
6 PM at the Ocean Palm Golf Course Clubhouse. I quote: "To provide information on the
proposed project and to answer neighbors' questions".
The letter stated: Flooding problems will be corrected at no cost to the public.
MY ANSWER TO THIS - (THEY SHOULD SEE THE WATER ON THE COURSE NOW
WHICH IS SEEPING UP FROM UNDERNEATH THE SURFACE).
Environmental quality of ICWW & wetlands will be improved.
(I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION YOU CAN'T DISTURB THE WETLANDS).
Substantial drawdowns from the aquifer will end.
Upscale single family residence in the project will provide additional tax and utility funding
to the City and increase neighborhood property values.
MY ANSWER: (HOW CAN THEY SAY UPSCALE WHEN THEY WANT TO CHANGE
THE ZONING TO LOW DENSITY PLUS THE CITY WOULD HAVE TO HIRE MORE
PERSONEL)
IT WAS BECAUSE OF THE GOLF COURSE PEOPLE WANTED TO LIVE IN THIS
SECTION OF FLAGLER BEACH. IF WE WANTED TO LIVE IN A DEVELOPMENT, WE
WOULD HAVE CHOSEN AN AREA IN PALM COAST.

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 Sep 29, 2008 6:13:00 PM

blog editor said...

Golfer313

Nothing in my mailbox about a meeting.

Be sure to fill us in on the proceedings especially who shows up on the other side.

Sep 29, 2008 6:25:00 PM

concerned property owner said...

Why has the saveflagler.blogspot.com/ been removed??

Oct 2, 2008 10:42:00 AM