110912-Ted Baillieu Premier - No 1158210495-Etc

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WITHOUT PREJUDICE 5
Ted Baillieu Premier of Victoria ted.baillieu@parliament.vic.gov.au Cc:
12-9-2011
Acting Chief Commissioner of the Victorian Police C/o heidelberg.uni@police.vic.gov.au C/o Victoria Police Centre, G.P.O Box 913, Melbourne, VIC, 3001, AUSTRALIA Civic Compliance Victoria GPO Box 1916, Melbourne VIC 3001 Traffic_Inquiries@tenixsolutions.com Mr Grey Chief Magistrate, Magistrates Court of Victoria Ground Floor, 277 William Street Melbourne Vic 3000 C/o help@magistratescourt.vic.gov.au
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Ref: Infringement Court case umber 1158210495 Infringement Notice Number 0201683566
COMPLAI T
20 Ted, As a CO STITUTIO ALIST I expressed in previous correspondence my disapproval of how the Government has been misusing and abusing the legal processes and by this undermined not just mine but other citizens also constitutional rights such as to maintain a separation of powers between the legislators, the executives and the judiciary.
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As I understand it there was a case before the High Court of Australia some time ago where a municipal council refused to deal with an application by a ratepayer and the High Court of Australia then held that by the refusal of the council to adhere to its own by-laws then by this it no longer could bind this ratepayer to any building requirement because the council by its conduct to refuse to determine the application must be seen as having invalidated any enforcement of the requirement to apply. Where a person is required to make an application and does so and has the application refused for consideration then it invalidates the requirement to make an application. Therefore it is not relevant if the council were to dismiss or grant the application as that is a different issue, but it was obligated to at the very least consider and determine the application.
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Translate this to current legal requirements, a person is required to obtain a driver licence for the class of motor vehicle(s) the person desires to operate. If therefore the person does obtain the required licence but the State suspend it not because of being incompetent to operate such vehicle within the class of vehicles permitted to do so but for ulterior purposes, such as some alleged unpaid fine, then effectively the government invalidates the requirement of having to have a driver licence.
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The same with the registration of a motor vehicle that is required to be checked for roadworthiness. Where then the owner has it registered and paid for the registration then the government cannot have the vehicle deregistered because of alleged unpaid fine(s) because to do so would make obsolete any requirement to register a motor vehicle. Again, a person required to comply with legal provisions has the right that as long as he/she has complied with and continue to comply with the conditions to obtain a driver licence/motor vehicle registration then any
p1 12-9-2011 Ted Baillieu Premier umber 1158210495 - etc I SPECTOR-RIKATI about the BLACK HOLE in the CONSTITUTION-DVD A 1st edition limited special numbered book on Data DVD ISBN 978-0-9803712-6-0 PLEASE OTE: You may order books in the I SPECTOR-RIKATI series by making a reservation, by fax 0011-61-3-94577209 or E-mail INSPECTOR-RIKATI@schorel-hlavka.com See also www.schorel-hlavka.com
Downloading of documents from blog http://www.scribd.com/InspectorRikati
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condition used to rob the person of this right not associate with the conditions originally applicable to obtain the licence/registration invalidates the requirement to obtain a licence/registration.
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With other words, if the police/court/Vicroads/Sheriff were to suspend my driver licence/registration or in any other way were to tamper with my motor vehicle, being it wheel clamping or otherwise then it would actually commit offences. Wheelclamping a vehicle is contrary to motor vehicle registration purposes as a vehicle must be roadworthy at all times and any person tampering with a motor vehicle to make it unroadworthy (as effectively wheelclamping does) would then invalidate any legal requirement of a vehicle to be roadworthy.
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The legal provisions are that a persons drivers licence is suspended when attaining 12 demerit points. I have allegedly now been awarded/credited/punished with 1 demerit point and hence any attempt to suspend my drivers licence of an alleged non payment of a fine would invalidate the demerit point system altogether and I could run up thousands of demerit points and it could never be applied to me.
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The demerit point system was to drive home to the relevant driver that no matter once financial position the demerit point system would punish all offending drivers the same. Therefore, to suspend a driver licence of attaining 1 demerit point for allegedly not having paid a fine would be a misuse of the very principles of the demerit point system.
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The police are a law enforcement agency where as Vicroads is not as such as it is rather a department to register motor vehicles, holders of driver licences, etc. Therefore, when the Police advised me using the Vicroads envelope that I had incurred one demerit point then it abused\d its position and transgressed from law enforcement to the administrative part that is within the powers of Vicroads.
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Where the Police notified me of the 1 demerit point despite that an application was on foot and not determined to have set aside the Infringement Notice order of the Infringement Registrar as I had all along from onset notified the police upon the original issue of the Infringement Notice to oppose the jurisdiction of any court to hear and determine the matter then the police disregarded DUE PROCESS OF LAW as it went ahead with the 1 demerit point even so at no time had any judicial decision been made as to dispose of the OBJECTIO TO JURISDICTIO and as such the police unduly inflicted harm upon me.
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No one is going to deny that police officers and even other emergency vehicles may at times have to exceed the speed limit to arrive at a scene where a persons life may be depending upon every second the rescue or other services can be attending, but it is another matter where police simply use a siren and their lights to get through an intersection and then having done so switch it off and then stop at the nearest milk bar and purchase sandwiches and eat them. This I reported to the Chief Commissioner long ago I observed being done by police officers.
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As a CO STITUTIO ALIST I hold it very important that we use the RULE OF LAW and not just brag during elections to pursue Law & Order and then after an election appear not to care less but that we all are and remain fair dinkum about it.
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Constitutionally we have Ministers appointed to head departments and being the responsible Ministers for this.
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Hansard 17-4-1897 Constitution convention Debates (Official Record of the Debates of the Australasian Convention) QUOTE Mr. CARRUTHERS:
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It is just as important that the Federal Government shall have the care and management of the vehicles which carry human beings and their goods as that it should have the care and [start page 769] management of the vehicles or ways which carry letters and telegrams. 5
END QUOTE
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Likewise the State government must manage the vehicles used by police officers and ensure that as much an ordinary owner is liable to identify a driver or the owner cops the Infringement notice then likewise this must be applied by the State government in regard of any government vehicle, not only the police, that the person who signed the vehicle out is deemed to be as like the owner accountable for any Infringement Notice or must identify another person who is claimed to have driven the vehicle.
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Hansard 1-3-1898 Constitution Convention Debates (Official Record of the Debates of the ational Australasian Convention) QUOTE Mr. GORDO .-Well, I think not. I am sure that if the honorable member applies his mind to the subject he will see it is not abstruse. If a statute of either the Federal or the states Parliament be taken into court the court is bound to give an interpretation according to the strict hyper-refinements of the law. It may be a good law passed by "the sovereign will of the people," although that latter phrase is a common one which I do not care much about. The court may say-"It is a good law, but as it technically infringes on the Constitution we will have to wipe it out." As I have said, the proposal I support retains some remnant of parliamentary sovereignty, leaving it to the will of Parliament on either side to attack each other's laws. END QUOTE
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Therefore if the State government cannot even manage to comply itself with the relevant legislative provisions then it cannot enforce it against other motor vehicle owners.
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While the article quoted below relates to the police vehicles, it should be understood it doesnt refer to all government owned vehicles and neither to the number of police officers who used their private vehicles and so to say got off it.
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If speed detection cameras are not intended as a so to say cash cow but for purpose to pursue the safety of all road-users then the Government will ensure that all Government vehicles that are deemed to have incurred Infringement notices are appropriately pursued as to whom the respective driver were. Indeed, it would be a total absurdity to claim that unidentified persons are speeding in police vehicles as this amount to that the police have no control over who is using police vehicles and that then implies that unauthorised persons are using police motor vehicles. Then this could mean that for example unsuspected motorist, in particular women, may be subjected to being directed to pull over by the siren and light of a police motor vehicle but being driven his means that society at large is placed in danger and no person could any longer deem it safe to obey directions of what may appear to be police officers because the motor vehicle driver wouldnt have a clue and couldnt risk to be caught out by criminal elements because the state government cannot even manage the security of its own police fleet.
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It must be clear therefore that the onus is upon the Police Minister to ensure that police motor vehicles are only used by authorised persons and that the authorised persons signing for the vehicle then is responsible for any alleged offences involving the vehicle and unless and until the Police Minister has accomplished this regime there is no legal justification for the courts to enforce or seek to enforce any alleged offences against any other motorist or motor vehicle owner. The law must be applied without favour and clearly the court now cannot accept that this is done. As I indicated also in previous correspondence the Police themselves are challenging speed readings and so successfully and obviously if the speed detection camera is deemed to be
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incorrect or cannot be relied upon in one case then it should apply to all cases as then the onus must remain with the enforcement agency to prove why somehow the speed detection camera was not working properly in one case but was in every other case.
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For the record I have at times indicated to police vehicle drivers that an indicator wasnt working on their vehicle and then generally they then direct me to pull over and they then do a road worthy check on my vehicle for daring to point out their vehicle is unroadworthy and dangerous to be used, but so far they always failed to find anything against me then. It just shows that the police mentality is not one about safety for the general community but rather special rules that they are above the RULE OF LAW.
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As the police persisted with their vexatious litigation against me regarding an alleged speeding offence I for one will continue to pursue my constitutional and other legal rights and the police may just discover, as the Commonwealth previously did, that this time they took on the wrong person who isnt going to be bullied into submission.
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As I made clear I opposed any court to have jurisdiction in the matter and the police therefore required first of all to prove to a court of law of competent jurisdiction to first make a ruling after having held a JURISDICTION hearing as no such hearing ever took place then all and any orders will be ULL A D VOID and I view scandalise the Magistrates Court of Victoria as to issue purported Infringement Notice Order where no jurisdiction was ever invoked.
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Lets be very clear about it that as the Infringement Court never did invoke jurisdiction then any orders by any court to purportedly enforce this order by warrant or otherwise would be without LEGAL FORCE. Indeed any wheel clamping will be deemed to be a conduct of malicious damage and to undermine the very purposes of having a vehicle road worthy.
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As I indicated in the past the Government may desire to collect monies but it must do so in an appropriate manner and I view this it isnt doing when it uses the Infringement Act 2006 as set out already also extensively in previous correspondences. This act remains ULTRA VIRES, in view that I legally challenged it and as such cannot be enforced either against any other motorist/owner unless and until, if ever at all, a court of law with competent jurisdiction declares the legislation to be INTRA VIRES!
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Perhaps the police officers may be so stoned (drunk) that they do not even know when they are signing out a police vehicle and/or speeding? Well, perhaps the police minister should re-educate the relevant police that if they do not know they are driving a police vehicle then they better do not drive a police vehicle at all.
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Also, are there no log books and police vehicle radio cameras that records police officers when they are using police vehicles? So, are we now having that the police officer whom signed out a particular police vehicle and may be recorded using the vehicle nevertheless cannot remember doing so when it comes to speeding or other traffic offences?
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What about the radio records that enabled to have records checked as to who was answering calls in a particular motor vehicle? What about the partner who was in such police vehicle were they perhaps also stoned or asleep that they too didnt know who was driving? Or well were there not reports of UFOs? Perhaps aliens of outer space were driving the police vehicles and this is counted by you as a boost in law enforcement agents?
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I just wonder if police vehicles had unknown drivers speeding, etc, then is there any record as to whom returned the said vehicles to the depots? Or, perhaps the aliens of outer space had them
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returned not wanting to make their presence known but just that the police now did nevertheless to make known they do not know who are driving so many police vehicles around. As after all not every police vehicle is allegedly detected speeding and so how many other police vehicles might be driven by so to say outer space aliens? Perhaps some alien may have driven my vehicle too, after all if they can do so with police vehicles perhaps impersonating police officers then why not do so with me and everyone else? Or, can we just assume that the legislation is being disregarded by the police themselves and they use nonsense of excuses and you with your Law & Order slogan for the election simply allowed them to do so?
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I now will quote the particular Herald-Sun article and the comments that I am aware of were published subsequently
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http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/police-dodge-traffic-fines/story-fn7x8me2-1226133908813 QUOTE Police dodge traffic fines Jon Kaila From: Sunday Herald Sun September 11, 2011 12:00AM 183 comments
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MORE than 100 police issued with fines for breaking road laws have escaped punishment because they refused to admit they were driving.
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The 138 incidents of running red lights and speeding by up to 40km/h over the limit involved officers who were not actively pursuing criminals and not rushing to crime scenes. Victoria Police said it was unable to identify the driver in all the incidents - leading to fines being scrapped - despite admitting officers signed a log book each time they used a vehicle.
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As debate rages about the accuracy of speed cameras, documents released under Freedom of Information reveal 1477 infringements were issued to police for non-operational offences in the past five years. But 61 per cent of those were then dropped by Victoria Police. Ordinary members of the public who appeal against a fine are let off in only 3 per cent of cases. Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
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Results: Road rules Thanks for voting! Do you believe police are getting special treatment to avoid speeding fines? Yes 81.78% (1876 votes) o 18.22% (418 votes)
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Total votes: 2294 Related Coverage Hooning P-plater caught out Adelaide ow, 8 days ago Cop 'created traffic stop to dodge fine' Herald Sun, 19 Jul 2011 Speeding P-plater fined $1000 Adelaide ow, 14 Jul 2011
p6 12-9-2011 Three caught speeding on Expressway Adelaide ow, 14 Jul 2011 Police tell drivers to heed Clem7 signs Courier Mail, 23 Jun 2011
End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
The statistics show Victoria Police failed to recoup $109,280 by not enforcing fines against its officers. The revelations prompted criticism from Police Minister Peter Ryan.
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"Except ... where duty requires, police officers should have to comply with the road rules like all other drivers," Mr Ryan said. On one occasion a Victoria Police vehicle was detected speeding 40km/h above the road limit. The driver should have been banned from driving for six months, had six demerit points added to their licence and paid a $519 fine.
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Instead, Victoria Police said it was "unable to identify" the driver. A further 769 offenders - breaking road rules in their squad cars but not in the pursuit of crime - were simply told not to do it again.
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Officers escaped receiving 916 demerit points - enough to ban 76 cops. Rose Sutera, whose son Anthony died at the hands of a speeding driver in Mill Park last year, said police should not speed unless fighting crime.
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"It's a disgrace and just wrong," Ms Sutera said. "Why is it one rule for them and another for us?" Victoria Police said the figures were "disappointing".
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"Police officers are expected to set an example in obeying speed limits," a spokeswoman said. "It is disappointing a number of police officers have been detected when not exempt from the road rules." But the force argued police officers had been "penalised accordingly".
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"Police, as with all members of the community, are able to apply for an official warning under strict criteria," the spokeswoman said.
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"This includes an admission of guilt, a speed under 10km/h over the limit, and a good driving record with no infringements issued for the previous two years. "Warnings are an officially recorded sanction - once you receive an official warning motorists are not eligible to apply again."
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In dozens of incidents where the driver was detected speeding between 10km/h and 40km/h above the limit, Victoria Police said it was unable to identify the driver and no one was penalised in any way. kailaj@heraldsun.com.au
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Comments on this story
Fred Posted at 11:52 PM September 10, 2011 What this shows more than anything else, is how hard it is when driving in traffic and concentrating on hundreds of signs and hazards to watch your speedo really closely. The speed tolerance allowed coupled with the allowed level of inaccuracy in car speedometers
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p7 12-9-2011 and the need to watch the road constantly makes it really hard not to be caught out occasionally. If our cops can't manage to avoid speed infringements in ordinary driving, then how the heck can it be expected that the general public can do as well or better? Yes speed is dangerous, but enforcement has to be reasonable and compliance realistically possible, or it denies natural justice. Comment 1 of 183 Sherro of Templestowe Posted at 11:52 PM September 10, 2011 Hmmm, guess it would be a bad look crushing Police cars for hooning... on the other hand, why should Police be subject to the same Laws as us suckers? Don't forget, the Government just told us Speed Cameras aren't a rort... Comment 2 of 183 hippie of broady Posted at 11:52 PM September 10, 2011 what a joke what are number plates for Comment 3 of 183
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Whistleblower of Melbourne Posted at 11:52 PM September 10, 2011 Whoever signed out the vehicle should get the penalty unless they sign a statutory declaration identifying the actual driver to whom the vehicle has been transferred. Comment 4 of 183
Rob of wollongong Posted at 11:59 PM September 10, 2011 If anyone can say they are surprised by these findings they have their head buried in the sand.There should be a body to police the police, independent of police influence.Police are employed to enforce justice equally to all.They should act like robots devoid of favour,discrimination and feeling. Comment 5 of 183
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Fair is Fair of Melbourne Posted at 12:13 AM Today In fainess to the cops, who do put their lives on the line to protect us, at least some of the time, and who are the first to arrive when their are dead bodies spread everywhere in a major collision, well maybe they should just get off on their fines, what do you reckon? Comment 6 of 183
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Was blue once of ot at the station Posted at 12:22 AM Today Police Members also get away with drink driving offenses and crash scene cover ups while drink driving. It's amazing the things members get away with in the Job, Try denying it boys ;) Comment 7 of 183
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dagbert Posted at 12:24 AM Today Since their employer *requires* them to drive on the roads, thereby exposing them to all sorts of misadventure, accidents, road penalties etc., surely there is a strong case for vicarious liability of the employer, - at least in cases where negligence has not been shown.
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Comment 8 of 183 carlo sala Posted at 12:25 AM Today
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wait a minute: if i get caught speeding (or any other infringement), i am required to provide a signed statutory declaration that i was not at the wheels and details of the person who was at the wheels. have those police officers provided the signed statutory declaration? p7 12-9-2011 Ted Baillieu Premier umber 1158210495 - etc I SPECTOR-RIKATI about the BLACK HOLE in the CONSTITUTION-DVD A 1st edition limited special numbered book on Data DVD ISBN 978-0-9803712-6-0 PLEASE OTE: You may order books in the I SPECTOR-RIKATI series by making a reservation, by fax 0011-61-3-94577209 or E-mail INSPECTOR-RIKATI@schorel-hlavka.com See also www.schorel-hlavka.com
p8 Comment 9 of 183 dagbert Posted at 12:45 AM Today
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Its a wonder any police have still got their licenses given the amount of time they are required to spend on the roads dodging speed and red light cameras. If the system wasn't excusing them we would not have any cops on the roads catching those hoons - you know the ones overtaking >40kmh - intent on wiping out you and your family on your way to the shops. Don't blame the cops-it's the justice system that realises they need the cops out in cars. Comment 10 of 183
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Saysoon of Sunshine Posted at 12:46 AM Today I suppose here's an incentive for joining the force! Comment 11 of 183
Jamie Shields of Corio Posted at 12:46 AM Today who cares?
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Comment 12 of 183 Me of Melb. Posted at 12:55 AM Today Double standard ehh... Comment 13 of 183 Jeff of Seaford Posted at 1:09 AM Today I've seen police flash red and blue to skip through a red light, only to turn it off on the other side. I do like the "Unable to determine", and "all vehicles have a log book of the drivers using it". So it's a matter of, don't ask don't tell. Comment 14 of 183 michael Posted at 1:36 AM Today they can identify who the driver was based on the number plate, time, date and the roster. Surely, someone in victoria police would know where that car normally stationed at and who being assigned to that particular car on what particular day. Victoria Police chose not to identify Comment 15 of 183
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Paul of Melbourne Posted at 1:42 AM Today I hope they keep dodging these fines, they deserve it!! Comment 16 of 183
james of melb Posted at 2:28 AM Today I have yet to come across a police officers which obey the speed limit , Evey time I have seen a police car ( no red light) they were always speeding 10 to 20 K above the limit. I live in a 50 KM zone next to the police Academy , they always wiz by 60 to 70 KM . I think it is a disgrace and those responsible should be made am example of. Comment 17 of 183
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Langdon of Adelaide Posted at 3:28 AM Today The police involved in the 39% of cases that did get fined mustn't be liked very much. Nice way to create and maintain inequalities and clicks within a work environment. At the least the lucky 61% should be suffering internal discipline (along with their superiors) for sloppy (liable?) record keeping.
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p9 Comment 18 of 183
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Land of Plenty of Melbourne Posted at 6:16 AM Today This is total Hypocrisy and proves that they are purely revenue collectors against us struggling real folk doing 3kms over and unable to measure or read this excessive amount speeding obviously the government is scared to really address this mass fraud and accountability issues of their servants shame on you ! if this is true I will be defending all future fines ! Comment 19 of 183
Undervalued teacher of ascot vale Posted at 6:21 AM Today Of course they cant identify the driver, they are all wearing different shades of blue! I cant believe so few have been caught and so few have been charged. In my line of work I see at minimum 5 police cars doing illegal turns or speeding a,day, all to get ahead,of traffic. I thaught the law was that they could not do such things unless they had the sirens and lights blaring. Perhaps we should have dob in a cop car much like the dob in a litterer...........or is there one rule for police and,one for the rest. Comment 20 of 183
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Golly Gumtree of Central Lake Eildon Posted at 6:32 AM Today Speed Kills thats why we have such a low tolerance in Victoria. The Police themselves ram the catch phrase down our throats.Red light running the same, so what about they find out accurately who drives the public funded police cars and when. Comment 21 of 183
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John Posted at 6:34 AM Today We need to show more tolerance toward the police. They are trained to a very high standard for driving and we don't want to discourage them from being on the road or going where and when they want. Comment 22 of 183
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Maria of Ormond Posted at 6:38 AM Today Well, it's all news to me and I have a fine under 10km, 1 demerit point, am guilty (I think) and plan to pay it. It has been 15 years or more since I was caught speeding last. I am a member of the public. Why has this law been kept secret? And how can it be an unidentified driver who cannot plead guilty or otherwise in so many cases? You cannot hope for respect with the inaptitude of Mr. Garrett in your offices, with the ethical standards of a moose in government. Why plead not guilty when the rule is 'that it will go easier for you if you plead guilty'? Because it is the whole force pleading 'not guilty' of something in this instance, is it not, and offering the defense as worthy of the 'court'. Not good enough. Comment 23 of 183
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Chris Posted at 6:40 AM Today What a surprise,they think theyre a law unto themselves.They obviously have have not respect for the law & then turn around & order the community to respect(bow & thank)them.& why wouldnt they when they know there law abiding mates are going to protect them & get them off any fines or wrong doing they commit Comment 24 of 183
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Jason Phillips of South Yarra Posted at 6:46 AM Today I know for a FACT that members of Victoria Police get special treatment when contesting speeding fines. > > > > > Just imagine a declining number of police on our roads because they all lost their licences due to demerit points!
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p10 Comment 25 of 183 The Real Jack Posted at 6:47 AM Today
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Funny this comes up now,last Friday arvo in front of Mentone station police car runs red light,oblivious to it.No siren, no lights.
Comment 26 of 183 Jack Posted at 7:02 AM Today Do we need to see police cars with sirens on everytime they need to get to an emergency, or to help a someone that has called for police? The blistful ignorance i have of melbourne being a wonderful family friendly state would be destroyed and my thoughts would be there are a lot of bad crimes happening these days. Let them go, why do we need to make the police job worthless, we need these people. Comment 27 of 183 James of Cranbourne Posted at 7:10 AM Today Yeah that's fair. If one of my staff gets caught speeding in a company registered vehicle and I am unable to prove who was driving. The fine still has to be paid by the business. It's just the demerit points that don't get allocated. But there's another charge added on top for not naming the driver. How is this fair....and also, how can this not be seen as revenue raising? Comment 28 of 183
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bill of seaford Posted at 7:21 AM Today This is why we hate the speed cameras and the people who run them Comment 29 of 183
A. Thompson of East - Country Victoria Posted at 7:25 AM Today I thought vehicle registration is suspended, & penalty (fine) issued to owner if no driver is nominated. Oh wait, is that for normal non-government vehicles only? Comment 30 of 183
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Can anyone answer this? Posted at 7:28 AM Today In the case of the policewoman who won her speeding case in court, she was 20 years old, right? Why was she not displaying P plates and why do we never see P plates on police vehicles? Is this another rule different for them? Comment 31 of 183
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get it right of melbourne Posted at 7:29 AM Today speeing is only relative to circumstances.....nothing to do with arbitrary limits. Comment 32 of 183
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Andy Forgotten Middle Class of Melbourne Posted at 7:33 AM Today I am not surprised by this. Together with "ncouraging" a work experience kid to give evidence on a speed camera confirmed as accurate, this is typical of a police force who has lost it's moral compaass. This comes back to the poor leadership the force has had for the last 10 years who have not set the standard/culture required. Unfortunately Tenez le Droit (Hold the Right) are only words for Victoria Police. Comment 33 of 183
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BBG of Melbourne Posted at 7:42 AM Today
p11 12-9-2011 Oath of Vic police is now "Do as I demand, not as I do, and watch me get away with. I dare you to try and thanks for filling the government coffers." Comment 34 of 183 Blue and proud.... of Melbourne. Posted at 7:43 AM Today Let's get this straight... Police are always fighting crime whether they are speeding to a burglary or just patrolling slowly. You cannot catch a driver traveling at 80 km/h in a 60 km/h zone if you are sitting on 60 km/h. Mahematicallt impossible. Police therefore have to exceed the speed limit to do their job. Even when speeding past a speed camera in an emergency situation with lights and sirens going, requires police submit a time consuming written report before the matter is considered and the fine withdrawn. Absolute, time wasting nonsense and just ridiculous beauracracy. As for Peter Ryan comments; he has no idea about anything to do with policing and is just a hack politician, and very average Police Minister who speaks before he thinks, as we've seen many times since he got the job.... Comment 35 of 183 Bobman of Melbourne Posted at 7:43 AM Today What a joke! Shame it doesn't work for the masses! Comment 36 of 183 Andrew of Prahran Posted at 7:43 AM Today It would be interesting to see the breakdown of the ranks involved in those incidents?? But Vicpol being Vicpol will protect Officers and let the lower ranks fend for themselves. Comment 37 of 183 ooch of Keysborough Posted at 7:49 AM Today What a disgrace!! No rules for them and all rules for us as usual!!!!!!!!!!
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Comment 38 of 183 how do you explain it........... of melb Posted at 7:57 AM Today It is called CORRUPTION. Comment 39 of 183 Al of Maryborough Posted at 8:02 AM Today Do as I say not as I do !!! Comment 40 of 183 Al of Maryborough Posted at 8:02 AM Today Do as I say not as I do !!! Comment 41 of 183
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Another Tired old HS Rehash Posted at 8:04 AM Today Yawn... Comment 42 of 183
Ron of Shepparton Posted at 8:06 AM Today 2 rules in nanny state
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Comment 43 of 183 Double standards AGAI Victoria Police of Melbourne Posted at 8:07 AM Today
p12 12-9-2011 The Internal Invesitagation Police and OPI vigorously investigated the e-mail issue (hardly serious) then why cant they more vigorously invsitage these matters to me they ARE serious. Comment 44 of 183
Get away with it. Posted at 8:08 AM Today If our company is unable to identify a driver, we have to pay a $600 fine plus the speeding fine. If police are exempt to this law, why isnt the public? Fix it Mr Ryan. Comment 45 of 183
JP Posted at 8:11 AM Today Police are exempt from the Road Rules under section 305 in the course of carrying out their duty. There are reasons why police are seen going through red lights or speeding. Not all jobs are attended with lights and sirens. Comment 46 of 183
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Mick from Tas Posted at 8:21 AM Today Police must keep abreast of traffic in order to detect offences. Even when not directly engaged in a matter, its conceivable that they may match the speed of a vehicle they think is speeding, or want to get closer to a vehicle to identify the driver before it disappears, all sorts of things the a diligent police officer will do that may lead to being detected as speeding, and its not unreasonable for the police to not recall the reasons for exceeding the limit givent he amount of time during one shift that police will attempt to confirm the commission of an offence. Comment 47 of 183
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stan gontarski of newy Posted at 8:22 AM Today No wonder labor's craig thompson is getting away with his line -it wasn't me - someone else used my credit card! Comment 48 of 183
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Old Codger of Tarneit, Vic. Posted at 8:24 AM Today "Power corrupts............" Comment 49 of 183
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Ian Kiernan of Frankston Vic Posted at 8:25 AM Today I would suggest altering the rule so that, where an officer cannot be proved to have been the driver, that the onus then falls back on the duty officer. We'll see then whether the duty officer responsible for sending out these coppers can point the finger or not. This is straight out cheating and needs to be stopped.
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Comment 50 of 183 dc Posted at 8:27 AM Today They're cops. They should be able to drive the way they like. Stop crying!!!!!!!!! Comment 51 of 183 Fed Up of Berwick Posted at 8:28 AM Today There are 1000 and 1 different reasons that fall within the "urgent duty driving" definition. it's not limited to being in a pursuit or going to an urgent job. Every traffic camera file is overseen by Ethical Standards Dept. for propriety. Some of the comments in this article just shows how ignorant some people are! The Police Dept. is a bit more involved than just your Uniform members.......... p12 12-9-2011 Ted Baillieu Premier umber 1158210495 - etc I SPECTOR-RIKATI about the BLACK HOLE in the CONSTITUTION-DVD A 1st edition limited special numbered book on Data DVD ISBN 978-0-9803712-6-0 PLEASE OTE: You may order books in the I SPECTOR-RIKATI series by making a reservation, by fax 0011-61-3-94577209 or E-mail INSPECTOR-RIKATI@schorel-hlavka.com See also www.schorel-hlavka.com
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p13 Comment 52 of 183 adam of lara Posted at 8:29 AM Today
12-9-2011
Between which dates? Log books haven't been filled out since June as part of protected industrial action. Therefore drivers can not be identified. Next.
Comment 53 of 183 the Truth of Melbourne Posted at 8:38 AM Today This is a complete joke - not only do police have to sign a vehicle log book but they have to submit a running sheet of their activities for the day and that sets out who was the driver and who was the 'observer'. If they say that those documents are false they can face criminal charges and they should - if they are failing to complete the required police records they can face discipline charges - and they should! Time for the police to do as they say and Ken Lay needs to announce that there will be zero tolerance to such corrupt police practices. Comment 54 of 183
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Richard Dean Anderson of Melbourne Posted at 8:43 AM Today Okay, but don't complain if the police turn up "late" for your crappy domestic because they drove at 50km/h in peak hour traffic and parked 2 city blocks away because it was the only legal park left. Comment 55 of 183
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nyani Posted at 8:44 AM Today Officer has signed vehicle LOG, signature is there, what is it that cannot be proved??????? Comment 56 of 183
Davo of QLD Posted at 8:46 AM Today Is this an attempt to pervert the course of justice? There is usually only 2 in the car. Not good enough. Comment 57 of 183
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Will of Sydney Posted at 8:54 AM Today Not good enough. Reopen all the cases and impose the fines, demerit points and loss of licence where appropriate. Comment 58 of 183
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Patrick Ansell Posted at 8:55 AM Today Yet another example of police command trying to insult the intelligence of the people. Every member knows that when taking charge of a police unit, the driver fills in a vehicle condition report on the state of the car and his name and number are recorded. The member then fills in a running sheet which again has their details. It beggars belief that police command still consider the general population as ignorant fools by saying members cant be identified. Comment 59 of 183
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geedee Posted at 9:00 AM Today so hang on let me get this right.a police officer signs out a vehicle and during this time a red light or speding infringement is incurred over 10 kph over the limit and all they have to do is say it wasnt me behind the wheel and they get off.what hapened to owner onus like the rest of the community.if they were in their own personal car they would have
p14 12-9-2011 been caught.it doesnt say much about the honesty and integrity of these officers.what else is being swept under the carpet.what a joke Comment 60 of 183 Blue Boy of Melb Posted at 9:04 AM Today Let the police members speed, there's a donut somewhere they're racing to. After all who's going to uphold the law if they're booked for breaking it. Comment 61 of 183 Yeah right! of Melbourne Posted at 9:05 AM Today Moral bankruptcy and probably corruption as well.SHOCKING!
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Comment 62 of 183 AJ of Melb. Posted at 9:06 AM Today Is there anyone out there gullible enough to believe that there aren't two sets of rules? Comment 63 of 183 mj of qld Posted at 9:08 AM Today I wonder how many get away with being under the influence of drugs or alcohol while on duty Comment 64 of 183 Danny of of Doreen Posted at 9:10 AM Today In ratio to the rest of the drivers that claim that same reason how many were there?
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Comment 65 of 183 Precedent of Sunbury Posted at 9:15 AM Today If I should ever get a speeding ticket I'll just say I am not the driver and have no idea who may have driven my car -precedence Comment 66 of 183
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steevo Posted at 9:18 AM Today What else did you expect? Comment 67 of 183
Yeah of St Albans Posted at 9:19 AM Today The police should be leading by example
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Comment 68 of 183 Dave of Melbourne Posted at 9:20 AM Today Are ther offenders cops or public servants, who have acccess to as many Police vehicles as sworn members. Comment 69 of 183
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P.O. Posted at 9:21 AM Today They should all be fined. Not good enough .Is it any wonder the public have no respect for the law if this is allowed. Comment 70 of 183
S.Howard Posted at 9:21 AM Today
p15 12-9-2011 One difference between Crims and Cops - the uniform. Comment 71 of 183 Patrick Ansell Posted at 9:21 AM Today To all the members who are criticising those writing to the Editor, read the Herald Sun article before over reacting. The article is saying that command cant identify certain offending members, it is not saying that police cant speed or that they need to have lights and sirens blazing. The issue is, accountability and honesty. If you cant distinguish between the two, god help us if you are investigators. Comment 72 of 183
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Matthew of Melbourne Posted at 9:22 AM Today Next time I see the police unit park in that disabled spot on Brunswick St Fitzroy just so they can pick up their pizzas (yes, you did - at least six people witnessed it dumbfounded!) - well I carry my camera phone closer to me now boys, so smile..! I urge others to do the same if you see this sort of thing.
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Comment 73 of 183 Lorraine of Victoria Posted at 9:22 AM Today I travel an hour on the country roads to get to work, returning home several times, no traffic in front of me nor behind next thing police car appears, overtakes then vanishes up the road way out of sight. So the comment posted by JP hardly gells with me! Perhaps once in a while it might be correct but frequently? Give me a break! Next time I will take down the number plate of the police vehicle and the time of afternoon. Comment 74 of 183 Jan Morris of Sandringham Posted at 9:24 AM Today Typical those who claim to uphold the law chose to break the law for self gain. Defintely perverting the course of justice without a doubt. Disgraceful. Comment 75 of 183 John Hay of Gold Coast Posted at 9:26 AM Today "Disappointing" is a massive understatement. This is just one more example of how corrupt Australian police are.
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Comment 76 of 183 Rob of Melb Posted at 9:31 AM Today This happens in ALL the emergency services, including Ambulance, Fire Brigade and SES, there is a special system set up whereby each case is reviewed individually, and people can be let off with a warning, unlike you or me who is 3km over a limit, it's a joke! Comment 77 of 183 rob smith of chingwyn Posted at 9:33 AM Today How many professionjally trained police drivers have been in fatalities for doing 65km in a 60kmh zone ??? Non of course - it is ratbag drivers who kill, not speding - we all know that. Bu the Govt. insists on brainwashing uu. Comment 78 of 183 Chris of Ferntree Gully Posted at 9:33 AM Today
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There is too much emphasis placed on speed limits anyway. Anyone reading this article in Europe or USA (which they can of course) would be scratching their heads in amazement. p15 12-9-2011 Ted Baillieu Premier umber 1158210495 - etc I SPECTOR-RIKATI about the BLACK HOLE in the CONSTITUTION-DVD A 1st edition limited special numbered book on Data DVD ISBN 978-0-9803712-6-0 PLEASE OTE: You may order books in the I SPECTOR-RIKATI series by making a reservation, by fax 0011-61-3-94577209 or E-mail INSPECTOR-RIKATI@schorel-hlavka.com See also www.schorel-hlavka.com
p16 Comment 79 of 183 Michael Lane of Sydney Posted at 9:34 AM Today
12-9-2011
This is an outcome of the camera mentality. A real live police officer catching them would be able to identify the driver and there would no longer be a problem. Get rid of cameras and put police on the road. Comment 80 of 183 Theo of Melbourne Posted at 9:36 AM Today If this is the case then maybe we should say that we weren't driving when an infringement comes.... what a joke!!!
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Comment 81 of 183 Michelle of Portsea Posted at 9:36 AM Today Another good reason/justifcation for the low regard people have for our corruptable public servants wearing blue! Why would anybody believe otherwise is beyond me! Comment 82 of 183
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SA JEEV SHARMA of Australia Posted at 9:45 AM Today CHEATING........................................................................................................................... ............................................................................................................................ Comment 83 of 183
Jimbo of Melbourne Posted at 9:47 AM Today Get over it. Comment 84 of 183
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Conan the Grammarian of Brunswick Posted at 9:47 AM Today So...... Victoria Police does not know who is driving its cars?? Unbelievable. Comment 85 of 183
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Joy Posted at 9:49 AM Today Look at all those associated with Police squeal. Now they know what its like being subjected to the unfair, money grabbing, cameras, thanks to tolerances being out of whack with the ADR's, and grossly under whelming speed limits thanks to Vic. Pol. and Monash. Strange how the agents of the Government, no matter which party, have one rule where we should all drive slower than a walking horse, but the rule shouldn't apply to them. Time Ryan honoured his election promise, put the bloody cameras at known accident and incident sites only (lets seta criteria of minimum standards before one can be fitted) and brought the tolerances back into line withe the ADR's and most States. Ryan is starting to smell like a Gillard in his dash for our cash. Comment 86 of 183
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Joanna wilson of Malvern Posted at 9:50 AM Today They should not even be speeding in pursuit of crime,the sign doesn't say 'Speed kills except when your in pursuit of crime'It Says 'Speed KILLS' and thats exactly what it does.They have sirens to have a clear path.Theres just no need for it at ALL. Bet they would think twice if they killed their own kid as a result of it. Comment 87 of 183
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Bob of Epping Posted at 9:51 AM Today
p17 12-9-2011 How are Victorians expected to respect the road laws when Vic Pol don't? You're not above the law, you're supposed to uphold it. You want respect from us then give us something to respect. Comment 88 of 183
Andrea of Ringwood. Posted at 9:55 AM Today How are they unable to locate the driver? They have a log book. I wonder if we use the story I cant remember who was driving my car, it could have been any number of people would work for us? Fairs fair Comment 89 of 183
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big al of victoria Posted at 9:56 AM Today JP - get a brain - it is compulsory to have lights and siren going, at least the lights, when negotiating through heavy traffic, and to slow at intersections so their lights can clearly be seen. Comment 90 of 183
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David Hood of Bayswater Posted at 9:59 AM Today Just another case of "don't do as I do, do as I say", as with all officialdom. Comment 91 of 183
Andrea of Ringwood. Posted at 9:59 AM Today All you people saying "its in the line of duty", I have a female friend who is a police officer, she got caught riding her motorbike (she wasn't on duty) 50kms over the limit, she got let off. I am sure if you get caught speeding in the line of work it would be overlooked, but I would be right in assuming alot of these had zero to do with work. Comment 92 of 183
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Mike of Melbourne Posted at 10:04 AM Today Can't indentify the driver - no problem - sack the two cops who were responsible for taking out the car. If one of them wants their job then they have to inform on the other. Comment 93 of 183
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BIG BROTHER WILL BE WATCHI G YOU SOO Posted at 10:06 AM Today Stop kidding yourselves people! You are all ignorant naive fools if you think they are justified in their abuse of the laws. So speed kills yes? But it seems ONLY when it is not a Police vehicle. HYPOCRITES!! I have taken photos of police abusing the laws. Wait till the website and Facebook page gets off the ground! We will be watching YOU, everywhere and all the time. See whether you get away with it then - when YOU have millions of cameras (mobiles) watching YOUR every move! Comment 94 of 183
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Greg of Woodvale Posted at 10:07 AM Today Good to see the Victorian Police adopting the politicians policy of "do as I say, not as I do" lets see how we go with the "it wasnt me driving" defense and have no idea who was !
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Comment 95 of 183 Road Rules of Court Posted at 10:08 AM Today Anyone can contest a speeding fine. If the photo does not clearly indentify the driver and the owner of the car cannot recall who was driving the car at the time of the offence and they have made all reasonable efforts to find out who was driving but are still unable to p17 12-9-2011 Ted Baillieu Premier umber 1158210495 - etc I SPECTOR-RIKATI about the BLACK HOLE in the CONSTITUTION-DVD A 1st edition limited special numbered book on Data DVD ISBN 978-0-9803712-6-0 PLEASE OTE: You may order books in the I SPECTOR-RIKATI series by making a reservation, by fax 0011-61-3-94577209 or E-mail INSPECTOR-RIKATI@schorel-hlavka.com See also www.schorel-hlavka.com
p18 12-9-2011 say who was driving they will not be fined, I repeat you will not be finedd, that's the road rules. Comment 96 of 183 Do not complain Posted at 10:12 AM Today The State needs a lot of money from the speeding fines of the civilians to maintain a modern police force with fast cars which also can afford to pay the court expenses to fight the speed fines of the Police members. Comment 97 of 183 eil of Up north Posted at 10:13 AM Today Mr Ansell, if only it was so clear cut. The requirement is to fill in the log book, many don't or can't be bothered, just like refueling the vehicle at the end of the shift for the next crew - often doesn't happen. Like members of the public, if it can't be proven who was driving the vehicle and there is no admission to that effect, no liability arises. Comment 98 of 183
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Ray of Rowville Posted at 10:20 AM Today Couldn't care less Comment 99 of 183
shane of melbourne Posted at 10:21 AM Today everybody knows the police dont abide by the road laws the biggest speeders on the road are police they dont practice what they preach Comment 100 of 183
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Comments on this story Previous 1 2 Moi Posted at 10:21 AM Today Nothing new. They've always got off driving offences of various sorts. Comment 101 of 183
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Ken Posted at 10:22 AM Today All those calling for police officers to lose their licence will be the first to whinge when they cant find an officer when needed. Fine them heavily by all means but don't be stupid by taking away licences. Police command are just not that stupid. Comment 102 of 183
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not so stoopid of Blackburn Posted at 10:25 AM Today Simple solution .. the owner of the car pays the fine .. wonder if this would change the atitude of Vic Pol? Comment 103 of 183
Paula Posted at 10:25 AM Today
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If the evidence is there they should be held accountable. However people take points for each other all the time so this police bashing rings hollow. p18 12-9-2011 Ted Baillieu Premier umber 1158210495 - etc I SPECTOR-RIKATI about the BLACK HOLE in the CONSTITUTION-DVD A 1st edition limited special numbered book on Data DVD ISBN 978-0-9803712-6-0 PLEASE OTE: You may order books in the I SPECTOR-RIKATI series by making a reservation, by fax 0011-61-3-94577209 or E-mail INSPECTOR-RIKATI@schorel-hlavka.com See also www.schorel-hlavka.com
p19 Comment 104 of 183 SJPS of narre warren Posted at 10:28 AM Today
12-9-2011
Just cause they sign a log book doesn't mean at the time they were driving the car. Other police borrow the car when they are in the office to 'pop out' to do something. I believe police have an advantage as they know what to say to get out of the ticket, that if the public knew of and used they could get out of as well. There is also case law that says police going about there business, driving around patrolling, are performing police duties and are exempt from the road rules, be they going to a 'job' or not. Comment 105 of 183
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Deb of Sydney SW Posted at 10:30 AM Today Ah let them be - they put up with all the crap situations, week in, week out. The public speeds as well, it is just they do not get caught each and everytime. And to be honest, who knows whether the speed cameras are reading the correct speed. They are a cash cow for the government - they are not there to save lives, never have been. And if there are two in a police car and they share the driving? Honestly we get up in arms over the slightest thing - it wouild nice to see as much outrage over kids being treated badly in the foster system or something else worthy. Comment 106 of 183
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Garry of Westmeadows Posted at 10:32 AM Today I agree with Macgyver, dont whinge when the police turn up late and your neighbour has stabbed you, or your ex-partner has set fire to your house, or a bunch of louts has robbed you. If you think you can do a better job then join up and prove it. But I bet you wont join up why the pay is so crap, so just stop whinging. Comment 107 of 183
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J.R of Altona Posted at 10:36 AM Today Unfortunantly "We" the public will never win this battle of corruption....who polices the police.....NO ONE! They are above the law and that is why our justice system is so unjust! Comment 108 of 183
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Benny of Bendigo Posted at 10:37 AM Today Little wonder then, that their record for identifying and prosecuting persons in other criminal matters, is so pathetic! Comment 109 of 183
Tony GU
of Darwin Posted at 10:37 AM Today
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sounds like an integrity problem in the Vic Police Comment 110 of 183 Wayne of Melb Posted at 10:40 AM Today 40 KLM over limit isnt that hooning? was the car confiscated? Comment 111 of 183
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Bob from Sunny Coast of Q'ld Posted at 10:44 AM Today Well as much as i admire and have a great deal of respect for the Police and what they have to put up with in our society this does'nt mean they become exempt from paying fines I'am no that they have to write up reports on any vehicle that they and sign off at end of operation the old saying do the crime do the time. Not able to ID what a lot of rot.I'am disappointed to say the least.
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p20 Comment 112 of 183 cb of Melbourne Posted at 10:44 AM Today
12-9-2011
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Not nearly good enough. If the average citizen tried this we would get summonsed to Court and face the expensive and unfair legal system. This is not acceptable. Its nothing but a loophole that they're not even trying very hard to fix. The driver denies driving so they scrap the fine??? Whoever is assigned to be driving the particular patrol car should be assumed to be driving, and that person should wear the fine. Like if someone tried to back out of being the driver, but it was my car. THEY WOULD COME AFTER ME. I'm going to try this next time and see what happens. You'll be able to read about the outcome of Facebook. I'll remove my privacy settings so everyone can read about it, and compare. Comment 113 of 183 roy bird of adelaide Posted at 10:52 AM Today If a person signs out a car and he/she is on their own, how can they say they were not driving? One law for them and one for us.
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Comment 114 of 183 Disgrace but typical Posted at 10:54 AM Today Vicpol. Uphold the law, ON OTHERS AND WHEN IT SUITS. Comment 115 of 183 rah rah rah of Victoria Posted at 10:58 AM Today And which one of you lot wouldn't do the same thing? How many have said the same thing? I know I have, anything to get out of a fine. Comment 116 of 183 wiz of Melbourne Posted at 11:00 AM Today Surprised ???? ...... why, ????? ........... there's ALWAYS been one rule for us and one for the coppers, and another rule for politicians, and another rule for "celebrities", and another rule for "VIP's" and another rule for ...... be disgusted but not surprised. Comment 117 of 183 Bill Posted at 11:01 AM Today I've seen Police on motorcycle drastically speeding on many occasions. Always without their flashing lights on therefore not attending any emergency... IT NEEDS TO BE STOPPED. One day one of these hoons might kill someone! It's fightning..... Comment 118 of 183 SC Posted at 11:06 AM Today So if every one work for the Police there don't get any fines ? .
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Comment 119 of 183 Plod of Mallee Posted at 11:06 AM Today No Log Books or Running Sheets since the Protected Industrial Action therefore no identity of the driver. Simple. Blame Failyou, even inaction has consequences, pay up. Comment 120 of 183
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Don Posted at 11:06 AM Today Police command is too scared of the Police Union to do anything. Ken Lay should practice what he preaches!
Comment 121 of 183 p20 12-9-2011 Ted Baillieu Premier umber 1158210495 - etc I SPECTOR-RIKATI about the BLACK HOLE in the CONSTITUTION-DVD A 1st edition limited special numbered book on Data DVD ISBN 978-0-9803712-6-0 PLEASE OTE: You may order books in the I SPECTOR-RIKATI series by making a reservation, by fax 0011-61-3-94577209 or E-mail INSPECTOR-RIKATI@schorel-hlavka.com See also www.schorel-hlavka.com
p21 bob Posted at 11:11 AM Today
12-9-2011
Where is ted??? I hope he honouring his promised 4 years ago to change the tolerance leve!! Comment 122 of 183
Max California Posted at 11:15 AM Today Victoria Police was once the best law enforcement agency in Australia. Sad to say that this is yet another example as to why it has degraded to below the blue line. A smell of sanctioned corruption again me thinks... Comment 123 of 183
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tim007 of Melb Posted at 11:18 AM Today Quis Custodiet Ipso Custodes? You've heard of the Rule of the Gun?? Whoever holds the Radar Gun makes the rules!! One rule for us and no rules for them, it would seem. Comment 124 of 183
Dom of Melbournes outer north Posted at 11:19 AM Today Just wondering if the police car is impounded under the hoon laws. If they are not attending any matter considered urgent, then the same rules apply to them. There is no justification for speeding just for the sake of being able to do so. Comment 125 of 183
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Kazz Posted at 11:19 AM Today The fines should have been forwarded to Victoria Police and paid regardless, being police cars driven by employees of Victoria Police. If the department needed to know who incurred the fine they could then refer to the aforementioned log books. Comment 126 of 183
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madness of Torquay Posted at 11:22 AM Today this is B.S...it angers me that a marked or unmarked police vehgicle, speeding, can kill me, my wife and toddler daughter, whilst we are using the same roads, because these power trippers can abuse the road laws (speed and red light running). One day these cops will kill an inniocent road user, or, padestrian, because they are above the law. This makes me mad. I will never ever pay a fine, if i recieve one, because of this. Lets all go on strike at your local police station. Comment 127 of 183
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Ann of Botanic Ridge Posted at 11:23 AM Today Half the time the camera time is out so I bet members can prove they are somewhere else at the time of the ticket from their paperwork as opposed to members of the public who wouldn't know. Also, the camera pictures aren't clear and even the daylight hours look like it's dusk etc so it's hard to tell and just another argument against the fines. Comment 128 of 183
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Mel, formerly of Melbourne of SW Posted at 11:26 AM Today If two police officers in the car can't remember who was driving then I suggest the fine be doubled and shared between the occupants in the car, and when you try this lame excuse which is tantemount to deception then double demerit points be issued to both. These people are there to uphold the law and treating us with contempt. Comment 129 of 183
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Justin of Australia Posted at 11:30 AM Today
p22 12-9-2011 Nice example coppers. Good integrity. Let's get this right. An officer can pull a driver over ask them if they were speeding, the driver denies the speeding accusation, yet the officer still issues a ticket. Officer gets caught speeding, says it wasn't me, end of story. Since this is obviously a double standard I feel the Police force has some serious questions to answer. Comment 130 of 183 steevo Posted at 11:33 AM Today I thought Ted was going to get tough on crime. Letting people get away unpunished is getting light on crime.
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Comment 131 of 183 Boofa Posted at 11:39 AM Today Why do people want these police to lose their licence? We need more police on the streets, not less. Police presence is a major deterrence in traffic so the more ground they cover, the better. Speed on, guys
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Comment 132 of 183 enigma Posted at 11:45 AM Today To all of you here defending the police; you are completely missing the point. They are getting off because they deny being at the wheel, get it!!! Do not lecture us on police duty, because any of those duties where speed is justifiable is completely irrelevant to the point of this article. Read it again, or as many times as it takes to get it through to you. Comment 133 of 183 jason of west Posted at 11:51 AM Today funny it always seems to be in the line of duty, its a pity i have seen them put ont sirens and lights to get through a red light only to puul into a fast food joint and dont even go into the issue that they are the best drivers in the world that is why they are allowed to use a phone while driving as well.u want respect lead by example Comment 134 of 183 Truth of Melbourne Posted at 11:55 AM Today Police can break the speed limit in the course of their duties and this does not have to be when they are rushing to a job or chasing offenders. There is case law from the Northern Territory which backs this up. Also every time a member of Victoria Police gets a speeding file they have to justify the fact of why they were speeding. If they cannot they are fined. The Fire Fighters and Ambulance service can speed and do not need to justify if they have a speeding file. Perhaps some here are barking up the wrong tree. Comment 135 of 183 Lochlann of greensborough Posted at 12:05 PM Today For a while now I have believed that the Police live by the motto "Do as I say, not as I do", and this just confirms that belief. For them to give the excuse that they could not identify who a driver was I find hard to believe. They write in a log book each time they take a vehicle out. It is the ultimate responsibility of that individual to be accountable for that particular vehicle. Comment 136 of 183 Matty Mark of Melb Posted at 12:05 PM Today
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so vicpol aren't smart enough to identify whos driving even with condition reports and logs which show who is driving. Next we'll see an article about how vicpol haven't submitted any paperwork in regards to logs and reports lol how stupid do they think people are? p22 12-9-2011 Ted Baillieu Premier umber 1158210495 - etc I SPECTOR-RIKATI about the BLACK HOLE in the CONSTITUTION-DVD A 1st edition limited special numbered book on Data DVD ISBN 978-0-9803712-6-0 PLEASE OTE: You may order books in the I SPECTOR-RIKATI series by making a reservation, by fax 0011-61-3-94577209 or E-mail INSPECTOR-RIKATI@schorel-hlavka.com See also www.schorel-hlavka.com
p23 Comment 137 of 183 bruno of Altona Posted at 12:06 PM Today
12-9-2011
If there were 2 officers in the car charge them both Comment 138 of 183
Get Real of Ringwood East Posted at 12:10 PM Today Nico above the law Comment 139 of 183
Mark from ringwood Posted at 12:10 PM Today It's only an issue to the public because we are expected to be driving within a very small lenience of the speed limit (3k's grace) or we are fined a ridiculous amount of money. If ever pulled up by a police officer for something small that you are fined for and complain, they will be the first to tell you that they have NEVER been fined for ANY traffic offense EVER. What garbage. Stop using the public to raise extra revenue and we probably wouldn't care about these little issues. Comment 140 of 183
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Greg of Chelsea Posted at 12:14 PM Today JP Posted at 8:11 AM Today. In some cases you may be right JP, but just the other day I was stationery at a set of lights on Nepean Highway with a marked police vehicle in the far right lane. When the lights turned green the driver absolutely floored his accelerator and was obviously doing way more than the 60kph limit. At the next set of lights I caught up with him and realized that he was not, as you say, carrying out his duty. I have observed several similar instances over the years and it would seem apparent that many police officers disobey road rules simply because they know that most times they can get away with it! Comment 141 of 183
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Kelly of West Gippsland VIC Posted at 12:25 PM Today As far as I am concerned, police are trained to drive safely at what would be dangerous for anyone else, so it really doesnt bother me that police are speeding, as they can do it safely. Anyway, realistically, speed does not kill, distracted/poorly trained drivers do.
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Comment 142 of 183 Smile of Melbourne Posted at 12:29 PM Today Maybe if the Police got a decent payrise they could afford to pay the fine. Comment 143 of 183 Cathy G of Melbourne Posted at 12:31 PM Today Some time ago, I was in a car with my copper brother-in-law while he was *off duty*. At least twice he got the car up to over 170kph while overtaking other cars. When I challenged him on it, he said he'd been trained to handle a car at those speeds. When I asked what would happen if another copper saw him, he said that he knew all the other coppers in the area and they were all his mates (this was a rural district), that they all sped, and that they routinely turned a blind eye to each other in situations like speeding. I'm not suggesting all coppers are like this, but a fraction of them certainly think they're exempt from the rules. Comment 144 of 183 Les Palmer of vermont Posted at 12:33 PM Today
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p24 12-9-2011 Suspend the registrations of all those police cars. You know damn well who was driving them. Obviously the low brow sergeant in charge thinks he is above the law. If you cant find the driver, suspend the sergeant in charge of the patrol until you do. Comment 145 of 183
Elena Posted at 12:40 PM Today What a dirty cover up. So the force says they are fined accordingly, the statistics say no. One party is lying and the other not. Which one? One rule for the public, another for the police. Typical. Comment 146 of 183
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Elena Posted at 12:42 PM Today So convenient to have 2 police personnel in the culprit car. Makes it easier for one top cover up and vouch for the other! Comment 147 of 183
Filmnoir of Parkdale Posted at 12:46 PM Today The police are simply demonstrating what we already know--speed cameras are deployed primarily to raise revenue and have nothing to do with road safety. Comment 148 of 183
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Matthew of Melbourne Posted at 12:49 PM Today Geez, pretty lame as well that our own police force can't even find out who was driving one of their own cars at a given time! Ha, either flat out liars or terrible "investigators", but either way, not fit to police this wonderful state... just living above the law and crying out for more more more money! Comment 149 of 183
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Jimbo of Albert Park Posted at 12:58 PM Today In Peak hour traffic in Footscray I saw a cop in marked police car talking on the mobile phone while driving to make it worse his right brake light wasn't working either, I'm sure I didn't mistake it because another driver traveling in the opposite direction yelled "good one a cop talking on the mobile phone" Maybe he was in the line of duty as well... Comment 150 of 183
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Harry E W Smith, E.D., A.D.M. of Melbourne Posted at 12:59 PM Today The fact of a police officer "signing out" on a police vehicle should be prima facie proof that he was the driver on the particular occasion!!!!! Comment 151 of 183
cb of Melbourne Posted at 1:05 PM Today Incidentally, I saw a Police car parked in a no standing zone on Friday. The cop was going into a food shop. So he had either been called in because someone failed to pay for their souvlaki, or he was buying his lunch. Either way, no parking is signed as such for a reason, and it means no parking. Dussa matta whether its a police car or a broom stick that you're parking. Comment 152 of 183
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Drinksum Concrete Posted at 1:06 PM Today A wrist band like PUB staff wear for cash registers to start a government plated vehicle would fix this for good. The time taken to use it would be negligible. Step up and show some caractor.
p25 Comment 153 of 183 Cathy of Hughesdale Posted at 1:15 PM Today
12-9-2011
Kelly of West Gippsland VIC Posted at 12:25 PM Today. How dare you thumb your nose at irresponsible drivers, whether they are police officers or not. Let me run it by you as simply as I can Kelly. No matter how well-trained a driver you might be, If a kangaroo jumps out in front of your car, or the actions of another bad driver cause you to crash, you have a far greater chance of survival if you are travelling within the speed limit rather than a speed well in excess of the limit. ie SPEED DOES KILL! It is not rocket science Kelly! Comment 154 of 183 Kumara of Melbourne Posted at 1:37 PM Today Think the officers do their best job. Quite reasonable that they can't identify the driver of the police vehicle at the time of offending, yes, it's invisible. But how incredible they find if it's an ordinary driver? If it's only road fines, how do we believe all other offences. Vic police too bad the way they move for the last couple of months, crime statistics, cheif commisioner, speed fines, etc. Can we still rely on the police? I won't get angry a speed fine is issued for non-existing vehicle or someonce who doesn't even have a driving license. Comment 155 of 183
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Dave of Cheltenham Posted at 1:40 PM Today Can anyone answer this? Posted at 7:28 AM Today. I can answer your question. You have simply misread the particular article which states that the woman is "a senior police officer of twenty years". That is her length of service, not her age! Comment 156 of 183
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Patrick A Posted at 1:41 PM Today To Neil of up North. Enforcing dicipline is clear cut and identifying members who have been assigned a unit is simple. Problem is, members like you would rather ignore a problem than address it. Supervisors and Sub Officers have a duty to oversee their charges. If logs arent being filled in, then charge the member under the Police Regulations Act. This is how you fix a problem, you dont ignore it by saying, "If only it was that clear cut" Comment 157 of 183
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Driver of Melbourne Posted at 1:56 PM Today Awesome to see that you are one of the gullible ones who fall for being brainwashed by authorities, Cathy of Hughesdale. We just came back from USA/Canada. The drivers there often exceeded the speed limit by 10 sometimes 15 kph/mph. Yet we saw no accidents, people courteously moving aside for faster cars, giving way to other cars, bikes, pedestrians. In other words, they SHARED the road. Unlike here in Vic, where it's just "Me, me, me! Screw the others for going over 2kph, I'm staying here in the RHS lane just because I'm doing 5kph under the speed limit". In the 1 day I've been back, I've witnessed 1 almost accident (driver didn't bother looking) and a 3-4 car pile up. Speed doesn't kill, it's driver inattention and inexperience that does it. Comment 158 of 183
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Mez of Geelong Posted at 1:59 PM Today Is anyone actually shocked by this? I followed a Police car through a round about then a left and right hand turn, they did not indicate at anytime! Through the round about is especially dangerous and then they have the gall to pull someone over for not wearing a seatbelt when they themselves were most likely to cause an accident!
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p26 Comment 159 of 183 Ryan of Cranbourne Posted at 2:00 PM Today
12-9-2011
In answer to "can anyone answer this" (Comment 27) - yeah I can answer it. The policewoman was a senior constable at the time of the incident which means she has had minimum 4 years of service. Minimum age for joining is 18, which makes her at the absolute minimum 22 years of age. Which means of course that she probably WASN'T a P-plater. Comment 160 of 183 eil J of Australia Posted at 2:01 PM Today what about the log book or cant the police read Comment 161 of 183 Phill of Kaniva..where??...KA IVA! Posted at 2:09 PM Today If I call the police, I want them to get here asap. It may not be life threatening but I still want their attendance. I don't want them crusing at 60 kph behind a thousand other cars. And if it's NO PARKING outside, I don't care if they park there. How do police monitor traffic and detect offences if they are just stuck behind the same car? Comment 162 of 183 Phill of Kaniva..where??...KA IVA! Posted at 2:09 PM Today If I call the police, I want them to get here asap. It may not be life threatening but I still want their attendance. I don't want them crusing at 60 kph behind a thousand other cars. And if it's NO PARKING outside, I don't care if they park there. How do police monitor traffic and detect offences if they are just stuck behind the same car? Comment 163 of 183 Mark. J Posted at 2:19 PM Today At big brother... You need to find something better to do. Obviously you have never required police to come help you. It is funny how quick everyone jumps on board something bad to say about vic police but when it comes to wanting there help the complainers are the first to call and demand everything. People looking on the outside have no idea of operational policing. Some specific jobs require discretion in attendance. Other times it is required to fulfill their duties in apprehending offenders. Find something else for news. Comment 164 of 183 Leeroy of Melbourne Posted at 2:23 PM Today Bet you the 61% that got off were traveling under 10k over and have not had a ticket in the last three years..... Same 'warning' any other person is entitled to ask for. Comment 165 of 183 madness of Torquay Posted at 2:25 PM Today the real issue here is road safety. does it matter if a car which is speeding is being operated by a cop or not? At the end of the day, speed kills, and speeding is dangerous. Pay up cops...if you dont have your lights and sirens on, its not urgent, and therefore, dont speed, and abide by the law, like all of us have to. We will loose respect for you if you dont. Comment 166 of 183 DJS from Hoppers Posted at 2:39 PM Today
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p27 12-9-2011 Another example of a mismanaged police force.If you sign the log book for a car then you are accountable & therefore, like the rest of the community, should be deemed to be the driver or sign the declaration nominatng the driver. When fines are rec'd by Corporations they have to say who was assigned the vehicle at the time & that person then receives a fine notice in the mail. And the comments about some police just take a car to do this & that - head to Macca's to buy lunch well 'Hello', what a great way to manage a vehicle fleet v- just to let whoever wants a car to take it without any form of accountability. NOW is the opportunity for Police Mgmt to fix this & have that person to whom the car is assigned deemed the driver. Police are not exempt from the law - any law Comment 167 of 183 TJRF of Southern Region Posted at 2:40 PM Today @WasBlue comment 6......As an ex-member of Vicpol who is glad to be out of their dysfunctional mess, I second your comment about the cover ups and double standards regarding offences. This is why I left, how can an honest member survive in that rubbish. Money for jam! Comment 168 of 183 Robert D of Cranbourne Posted at 2:41 PM Today of course its one rule for the police and one rule for the public. Those who think otherwise are just deluded. If an active member of the police wishes to contest a fine then they aproach the union who act on their behalf (including court costs) if the public wish to contest a fine they have to pay out of their own pocket. The costs are prohibitive in most cases so the general public see it as to costly and time consuming. Comment 169 of 183 Michael R of Dandenong Posted at 2:44 PM Today ....yup most people also know that if you are passed on a freeway/highway at high speed it is usually a copper or a young hoon! Don't care what Vicpol says as their double standards are appalling and an insult to the public. Money for jam! Comment 170 of 183 steevo Posted at 2:50 PM Today This just proves that speed cameras are simply revenue raising machines. If speed really does kill, there would be dead coppers everywhere. Comment 171 of 183 Paul of Melbourne Posted at 3:13 PM Today As a driver of a company car, if I was to refuse to admit that I was driving the car at the time, then the company foots the bill at double the rate as no demerit points are able to be deducted. How is it then, that the fines by speeders in police cars are 'scrapped?' Why don't the police pay double the fine as required by the company I work for? This is disgusting, and digraceful with a capital 'D'! Comment 172 of 183
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J.R of Altona Posted at 3:21 PM Today @Deb of Sydney, Sure well let them be....these people who are there to UPHOLD the law and STOP people doing the wrong thing, So If your child or a child in foster care got hit by a speeding cop car who needed to get his lunch youd be happy to say "Ah let them be".....I think not!
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Comment 173 of 183 Rule 305 of Road Rules Posted at 3:26 PM Today
p28 12-9-2011 Do the maths. 1477 fines over 5 years which equates to a total of 2.7% of the police force. Can't see any real difference here to the 3% of public Comment 174 of 183 Rupert Posted at 3:47 PM Today When I'm driving my Police car and stop to grab something to eat or drink - which of course I'm entitled to do - I'll generally park in the nearest available spot, in case I m required to expediently return to my vehicle and attend to someone robbing your house, or perhaps seriously assaulting you or a family member. However, this is delayed if my car is parked in a designated parking spot, which is likely to be all the way back in the boonies. However, after gauging the lack of community support based upon reader s comments, from now I promise I ll park in the nearest designated parking spot - no matter how far away - and won't put myself or my colleague at risk by speeding or running red lights either. That way I won t have to waste time at work answering silly speed camera files and/or copping a grilling from the boss. Let's face it, who could really criticise me for not driving fast enough or for parking in a designated parking spot. Unfortunately, there is a very real chance that the offenders would've well and truly left by the time I'm able to get back to my car and fight my way through traffic to make my way to help you! Ultimately, it won't be me that suffers. Comment 175 of 183
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Tango Whiskey Posted at 4:06 PM Today cb of Melbourne. Did you ever think that he may be investigating something... a theft? An assault? I assume next time you'd be happier if he drove around to find a park when your mother gets assaulted. You're a whinger unless it benefits you. Comment 176 of 183
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Sick of petty cop bashing of Melbourne Posted at 4:33 PM Today Ill start with undervalued teachers post. I think you need to spell check your post and check up on the law. I think you'll find that what you "thaught" the law says is wrong. I really hope youre not actually a teacher. The poor kids. Gee you all know alot dont you, at least you think you do. At the moment Victoria Police are enforcing work bans which includes not filling in vehicle log books or running sheets. As for vehicle condition reports? What? Yes, there is one rule for police and LOTS of rules for everyone else. 305. Exemption for drivers of police vehicles (1) A provision of the Road Rules does not apply to the driver of a police vehicle if: (a) in the circumstances: (i) the driver is taking reasonable care; and (ii) it is reasonable that the provision should not apply; and (b) if the vehicle is a motor vehicle that is moving the vehicle is displaying a blue or red flashing light or sounding an alarm. (2) Subrule (1)(b) does not apply to the driver if, in the circumstances, it is reasonable (a) not to display the light or sound the alarm; or (b) for the vehicle not to be fitted or equipped with a blue or red flashing light or an alarm. Get your facts straight! Comment 177 of 183
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HM of Melbourne Posted at 4:40 PM Today If the driver cant be identified then the same laws that apply to every other business should apply, registration cancelled and a massive company fine. Lets apply the law equally.
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Comment 178 of 183 Jaybee of Melbourne Posted at 4:40 PM Today Take a walk in their shoes before you cast judgement. Or, feel free not to use their services when required. Comment 179 of 183 p28 12-9-2011 Ted Baillieu Premier umber 1158210495 - etc I SPECTOR-RIKATI about the BLACK HOLE in the CONSTITUTION-DVD A 1st edition limited special numbered book on Data DVD ISBN 978-0-9803712-6-0 PLEASE OTE: You may order books in the I SPECTOR-RIKATI series by making a reservation, by fax 0011-61-3-94577209 or E-mail INSPECTOR-RIKATI@schorel-hlavka.com See also www.schorel-hlavka.com
p29 Billy Bob Posted at 4:43 PM Today
12-9-2011
Yes speed does kill and speeding fines are exorbitant, so never ever take your eyes off your speedo. Comment 180 of 183
Keryn W of Hamilton Posted at 4:49 PM Today The Justice Department is a JOKE!! Tells us commoners that cruise control cant be used as evidence that you werent speeding, and forces us to nominate who the driver was......unless youre a police officer of course! Speeding drivers deserved to be fined, but the paltry speeds were being forced to drive at are pathetic. All highways should be 110kmh, and as for towns - BRING BACK 60kmh!!!!! Comment 181 of 183
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Know the law before you speak Posted at 4:59 PM Today Yes, Police are exempt from the Road Rules. It would be nice if people did move out of the way when the flashing lights and siren are going. But most of you out there are poor drivers who do not understand the reasons for moving out of the way. They also use their siren when crashing red lights. Most people stop but many people are just oblivious and go about there business. Comment 182 of 183
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Chris W of Caulfield Posted at 5:02 PM Today refused to admit!! wow... If youd care to check, the County Court and Supreme Court are full of people who "refuse to admit" offences, (murder/amred robbery etc). It is not the job of the accused person to "admit" anything. The onus is on the prosecution. If they cant prove it, whose fault is that????
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Comment 183 of 183 END QUOTE
MAY JUSTICE ALWAYS PREVAIL

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Awaiting your response,

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p29 Billy Bob Posted at 4:43 PM Today

Comment 183 of 183 END QUOTE

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