Welcome Paddy!

Sorry for the rocky start, please don't let our occasional arguments scare you away. As an alcoholic, I can only speak for myself when I say I am not perfect. Far from it. I constantly drank. I was always so proud of not falling down, blacking out, or occasionally upchucking. Alcohol ate at me from the inside out. It cost me my gallbladder. If I had continued then my liver would have been next. I can fully relate to the wrong thinking and self destruction. That was my forte. Honesty, for me, is a good start. Don't be afraid to go to a meeting. We don't shoot our wounded, LOL. Someone told a fellow that when he came back after a little more research. Bad thing about killing thoughts and worries with thinking. For me, my problems only increased. I finally quit running from them and stood up and faced them head on. When I walked through these doors I realized that I really did want to live. Funny thing, all these years trying to kill myslf. Funny only in retrospect. Great replies from some wise sober fellows, here. The best thing, for me, is I finally found some people who I could relate to. They have the same spiritual sickness as I do. They gave me suggestions on how to live a better life. Only if I was willing to go to any lengths for sobriety. It is so worth it. Today I no longer have to rely on the facade and destructiveness of King Alcohol. Thanx to AA, my HP, whom I call God, and the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. It works for me, it can for you, too! Huggs and may your 24 be sober and spiritual! Tessa When I was new in AA one of the guys who lived in my neighborhood helped me a lot-more than he ever realized. Then Eddie got drunk after about ten years sober, and stayed out another eight years. He tried to come back, but his alcoholism had progressed to the point where he couldn't last a full day without a drink, even going to as many meetings as were available at that time. Eddie was lucky--he was able to get admitted to a detox long enough for the booze to get out of his system and he could get back into the Steps. Eddie died of Cancer, with a little over six years sober. Pat, if you can get to some kind of detox facility, please try it. It's easy for us to tell you to get to a meeting, but I know what it's like when meetings simply won't do the job. Jim. In the four years I've been part of this group I have never witnessed such behavior. After many attempts to quell the situation and as much as it goes against my principles, for his continued disregard for the members and use of profanity I had to remove Scott from our roles. For those of you who get posts sent to your mail box I'd like to apologize for allowing this to continue for as long as it did. I had hoped we could come to a reasonable conclusion but it seems that was not possible. I'd like to thank you all for being part of my sobriety.

Good Morning thanks Neil for posting , this thread has been helpful to me, I was wondering if life was going to be humdrum now that I've found sobriety, however I was amazed at the excitement I felt booking a holiday for the family last week. I was pleased to know that I can still, feel excitement , the thought of the pleasure the kids will have in a swimmimng pool was what did it for me . This time last year I would have been planning and scheming how to fit drink in. And the replies re needing chaos in my life has made me start to consider my employment choices. Many Thanks to all Mairi

A Special Morning wish for you...... I wish you all the Joys of Sobriety and Recovery. I wish you Good Health, Happiness & Peace, and most of all I wish you all a Great Day Stay Safe, Sober/Clean and be Happy, just for 24 hours at a time. Smiles & Hugssss Elva
One must never, for whatever reason, turn his back of life. ---Eleanor Roosevelt --Were going to have tough times. Maybe we dont get a pay raise. Maybe we get fired. Whatever happens, dont use alcohol or other drugs. Whatever happens, keep working the program. Our program will never turn its back on us. When tough times come, we can always turn to our meetings and sponsors. Were lucky because we dont have to face hard times alone. We have no reason to give up because our program will never give up. So, pull closer to your program when times get tough. Call a friend and talk about your problems. Take in an extra meeting. All of this keeps us from turning our backs on life Another sick group member piled on (while having no criticism of her friends who made vile attacks and told despicable lies): I had a sponsor told me that when I came and whinned am I victim of this situation or did I place myself in the position to be a volunteer. I had to think about this one. Today before I whine, I try to remember and ask myself am I really a victim or did I volunteer. Classic victim blaming. I sure as hell didn't volunteer for some sick freak taking cheap shots and calling me mentally ill. Victims whine. I told him and you to fuck off. My Gawd, you people are just about the sickest group of drunks I've seen outside of a prison meeting. One thing for sure: prison meetings have a higher standard of ethics and personal behavior. Not to mention a more civilized discourse: no surprise the cowards who took those vile cheap shots did so from the safety of their computers. NO ONE has

ever had the balls to talk like that to me in person, in over seventeen years and several thousand meetings. Says all the observer needs to know about how sick this group is. Not ONE word of criticism of their friends, but all of you feel free to criticize me. Shame you are such an ignorant group of drunks and apparently know nothing about how dysfunctional groups work......or the insight to see how you act to reinforce your own defenses against the reality of your acts. You just volunteered for that reaming. Hope you find it useful. Take it to your sponsor along with the rest of this thread. Show what you truly are. Thanks for posting this! My new sponsor sent me something to read, it had to do with something Bill W wrote about Emotional Sobriety. Well, finding my new sponsor was definately a God thing & everytime I see the word emotional....... I'm starting to think that maybe God wants me to do a little more research of this emotional sobriety & maybe be able to apply it better to my life today. In Love & Service, kansasmae I had a sponsor told me that when I came and whinned am I victim of this situation or did I place myself in the position to be a volunteer. I had to think about this one. Today before I whine, I try to remember and ask myself am I really a victim or did I volunteer. Love & Service, kansasmae From: nova_ Scott, You said in 1 or 2 posts in this string that you could not agree with me more, thank you but no thank you, don't patronize me. I have to go with the consensus in here. Clearly, you speak the English well and seem to be well educated, as demonstated. So you have a degree, an MA in psychology and you are are a certified addictions counselor. I really can not say that this is impressive, they are a dime a dozen, which came about in the late 80's and early 90's, just like the so called consultants of all sorts at that time. It is best to let it go at that. Your opinions are welcome, what is not welcome is your attempted insults, directed at members here. The vast majority are long standing members, and they did not just fall off the turnip truck. Many of them just lurk, their choice . I have no idea if they

even bother reading the posts. For the ones that do, many of them did not even respond to your repeated posts and replies...that should be a clear message to you. I said it in a recent post, words to the effect, " I'm smarter than you, so there. " It reminds of part of my childhood - My day is tougher than your dad. When I told my father this, he just laughed :) I hope you stay on with us, Scott, without the flames, your contributions add a good amount of spice here. I can only ask that you acknowledge that we are all in pretty much the same boat. Regards, Rob Scott, What's the point? 7 out of the last fourteen posts are yours and you haven't said anything new. You have expressed your opinion, we got it, don't ya think it's time to let it rest? Read this. refuse to act with any integrity, and launch some vile, despicable personal attacks. On the other side of the wall is honor, decency, ethics, morals, and quality sobriety, plus a willingness to look at the self. You act like a drunk in a bar who is confronted with his insanity: attack, demean, lie. I just love screwing with bleeding deacons. I consider it a public service, a contribution to the well being of AA. Stop being such a jerk, I'm inclined to think that I ran into another arrogant, big mouthed bleeding deacon. I enjoy tweaking you, I enjoyed taking him down a notch. How sad. One of the first refuges of the liar is to attack the sanity of someone who refuses to play their sick games. it sure doesn't seem like YOU are far from YOUR last shot of booze. Gawd, I love questioning authority.

But as long as they want to act like jerks, I'm happy to expose them for the dishonest, manipulative, dishonorable jerks they are. You truly are an ignorant and pathetic liar. What is truly sad is that your buddies are going to continue to pile on, and none of them will condemn this truly deranged and transparent vileness: indeed, they will encourage you to continue your abuse. his rude and arrogant behavior, then resorts to another cheap shot. I have not lied and have not taken any cheap shots, and I remain open to reasoned, civil discussion of these issues. Again, sometimes the hardest thing to see is yourself. I thought I was the only one here with the childish spats. But even I know when enough is enough. The time to bury the hatchet has long since past. I've got a box full of complaints, one asking to be removed from the mailing list, over what? Who's exposing who for what they believe the other to be? I tried to point out we're not what we appear to be on the net, not by any long shot. Where are you going with this? What do you hope to accomplish? Would you rather be right or happy? Paddy C shows up here, first day and this is what he finds. I'd be disgusted too. There are lurkers here, people who are reading and still drinking, would you call this attractive? If you were new or still drinking and read this thread would that make you say, " Hey this is where I might find the answer, these people really know what they're talking about. " I kind of doubt it. This reminds me of the out of control exchanges that led to fisticuffs at the local watering hole. My sponsor tells me " It's not old behavior if you're still doing it. " Look, nobody's right when everybody's wrong and this thread has gone on long enough. I got my hand on the BLAMMO BUTTON, and I ain't afraid to use it. One more peep out of any of you and I'm sending this thread to Kingdom Come, I mean it!

As Mr. Kastanza would say,

Serenity

NOW!
a meeting sound nice. Let me know & I will try to be there! Im CT zone. kansasmae A TURNING POINT A great turning point in our lives came when we sought for humility as something we really wantes, rather than as something we must have.

Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions. p. 75 Either the AA way of life becomes one of joy or I return to the darkness and despair of alcoholism. Joy comes to me when my attitude concerning God and humility turns to one of desire rather than of burden. The darkness in my life changes to radiant light when I arrive at the realization that being truthful and honest in dealing with my inventory results in my life filled with serenity, freedom, and joy. trust in my Higher Power deepens, and the flush of gratitude spreads through my being. I am convinced that being humble is being truthful and honest in dealing with myself and God. It is then that humility is something I "really want," rather than being "something I must have." the two of yous ought to be ashamed of yourselves, you call your selves sober ,your just dry. everyone serves as an example, in your cases it is "the bad example". Grow up and quit with the arguments life is too short. That MA and your ego won't do you much good when you hit that wall. I can't even imagine what use you would be to a still-suffering alcoholic. It scares me to think that your treatment centre might actually value someone with such an obvious personality disorder. Let it go, Scott.....a drunk is a drunk is a drunk.....we don't impress easily when we're truly sober. Planter Jim showed his true character by taking a cheap shot, telling a lie....and conveniently snipping the paragraph previous to the sentence he quotes, in which I predicted what he would do. Allow me to demonstrate his utter lack of any ethical standards: I wrote, and Jim quoted me: Gawd, I love questioning authority. Especially anyone who nominates himself as an AA authority. One of the grandest traditions of this wonderful anarchy. Drives bleeding deacons absolutely nuts. Then Planter Jim wrote: Then Planterjim piled on again. Gawd, I love bugging untreated alcoholics!! The paragraph he failed to quote follows: I invite anyone to read my previous replies to this particular deacon, and notice how he avoids any discussion of his rude and arrogant behavior, then resorts to another cheap shot. Bad enough that he misuses the Big Book to do so, but his avoidance of civilized, fair, reasoned discussion says all you need to know about HIS sobriety. To conclude, notice how he avoided any discussion of his rude and arrogant behavior, then calls me an "untreated alcoholic". His dishonesty and cowardice are even more transparent when you consider that I have seventeen years of continuous sobriety, two degrees in psychology, over fifty

credits plus another thirty credits of continuing education in addiction science, am a credentialed addictions counselor, frequently lecture professional addictions counselors, etc.......... But the truth never seemed to bother him and his fellow bleeding deacons when I refuse to acknowlege their perceived authority. Indeed, all I do is expose them for the frauds they are, and all they have done is launch obvious ad hominem attacks while refusing to discuss the issues raised by their sick behavior. An honorable man who actually worked the program would immediately retract his lies and do a tenth step. Instead, what Jim and his buddies will do is continue to attack. No surprise I'm not impressed by their sobriety, eh? Gawd, I love questioning authority. Especially anyone who nominates himself as an AA authority. One of the grandest traditions of this wonderful anarchy. Drives bleeding deacons absolutely nuts. Then Planterjim piled on again. Gawd, I love bugging untreated alcoholics!! Untreated alcoholic? You truly are an ignorant and pathetic liar. Instead of discussing the issues, you take a cheap shot. Here are some clues for you. I have an MA in psychology. I am a certified addictions counselor and have spent many years treating pathological liars and pathetic know it alls who pose as recovering alcoholics but act like sick drunks. In short, people like you. You are utterly without honor or honesty. You should be ashamed of yourself. What a dishonest cheap shot! Kenny, pay no attention to all those glitzy greetings - they just heard me say "cake"! Sorry, guys, you're too late! Untreated alcoholics like this are so easy though, Jim.....like dying suns they eventually burn right out. Anything to avoid going to any length for sobriety. I like that word "ban" that he used, though........ ;-) Kenny, are you there? Gawd, I love questioning authority. Especially anyone who nominates himself as an AA authority. One of the grandest traditions of this wonderful anarchy. Drives bleeding deacons absolutely nuts. Then Planterjim piled on again. Gawd, I love bugging untreated alcoholics!! If you want it, you know where it is. Give your local AA intergroup a call.

In my opinion, that book was written by and about alcoholics whose disease had progressed past the stage that mine was at when I came in to the rooms of AA. It's stated in the book.

From the forward

We, OF Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.

Doctor's Opinion was an alcoholic of a type I had come to regard as hopeless

There is a Solution We, of ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, know thousands of men and women who were once just as hopeless as Bill. Page 43 What you say about the general hopelessness of the average alcoholic's plight is, in my opinion, correct. As to two of you men, whose stories I have heard, there is no doubt in my mind that you were 100% hopeless, apart from divine help. If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.

Howdy Pat, want to but cant stop drinking, i drink from the time i get up until i pass-out at night. Yeah, I did that too. stayed sober for two years, just cant seem to get back on track, So you know this thing we do works. If taken the twelve steps will remove (y)our desire to drink. As much as I hate the parrot thing, It works if you work at it. Im scared to go to a local meeting. Sorry for whinning. Now that's about the silliest thing I've ever heard. What would make you scared about going to an AA meeting? You've been there, you know there are no sobriety hoops of fire you'll have to jump through, no snakes to handle, no speeches or lectures to endure. It will be full of alcoholics though, can you take a room full of booze hounds? Personally they don't bother me much. And about this whinning. It takes what it takes. If'n you're gonna need to whine instead of buying wine, go ahead. I'd rather listen to that then see another one of us die. And when that pain gets to be too much, we'll be here. You can do it we can help. Kenny Rob, I couldn't agree more with you. When certain invidividuals stop taking my inventory, stop making sick and despicable judgements about my program, stop telling me what to think and what to believe, stop the ad hominem pile on attacks, I will be happy to continue to ignore them as I have happily ignored them for the many years I have lurked on this newsgroups. If I was acting like them, I'd be taking cheap shots at every fatuous, ignorant, neanderthal post I don't like and publicly condemning the author while questioning their sobriety.

But I have not done so. These self-appointed authorities have done exactly that to me. But as long as they want to act like jerks, I'm happy to expose them for the dishonest, manipulative, dishonorable jerks they are. I reserve the right to tell the truth when others lie, challenge orthodoxy, question authority, and define MY God as I understand him rather than have this fundamentalist garbage stuffed down my throat. If you have any criticism, direct it at the regulars who have piled on in their criticism, without ever discussing their behavior or their grossly inappropriate behavior. Neil, I don't normally "double-dip" but I came across this reading this morning -- one of my favorites: Is sobriety all that we are to expect of a spiritual awakening? No , sobriety is only a bare beginning, it is only the first gift of the first awakening . If more gifts are to be received, our awakening has to go on. As it does go on , we find that bit by bit we can dicard the old life , the one that did not work , for a new life that can and does work under any conditions whatever .. [As Bill Sees It - p.8]

"NINGUN HOMBRE ES UNA ISLA" Estaba espiritualmente en bancarrota mucho antes de que A.A. entrara en mi vida y mucho antes de que el alcoholismo, como un parsito bajo mi piel, tomara posesin de m. Yo no tena nada, ninguna fe a que aferrarme. No tena fe en el hombre, porque al ir progresando mi deber haba perdido la fe en m misma. No confiaba en nadie, porque los dems no eran ms que el mero reflejo de m misma, y yo no poda confiar en m. Logr la sobriedad dentro de A.A., y, como un milagro, el clido torrente de la verdad que tanto haba temido durante tanto tiempo me inund, y ya no volv a tener miedo. Comenc a preguntarme por que. Junto con la sobriedad, algo nuevo haba entrado en mi vida. Comenc a tener inters por otros. Esta expresin "inters por otros", junto con su hermana consideracin, eran para m una cosa extraa. Haba credo que era capaz de enamorarme; me haba considerado una madre amorosa; pero estas emociones, ahora lo comprendo, haban sido reflejos de mi propio egosmo. Nada penetr dentro de mi ser. Comenc, temprano con mi sobriedad, a sentir compasin por otros borrachos, luego por mis hijos, luego por mi ex-esposo. Esta compasin, un sentimiento acompaado posteriormente de amor, abri la puerta de una inmensa ciudadela dentro de m que siempre haba estado hermticamente cerrada. Pero lo extrao ahora, en la sobriedad, era que no estaba yo regresando a mi estado anterior. No estaba reasumiendo aquel "estar bien" que yo haba dejado cuando comenc a beber anormalmente. Iba estando, como o decirlo una vez, "mejor que bien". Escudriando (vea el Paso Cuatro) dentro de mi propia personalidad, encontr un nuevo ser dentro de m. Nunca haba estado ah antes, ni siquiera en mi niez. Debi haber crecido en dnde estaba una piedra o un agujero vaco. Algo estaba ahora echando races. Comenc a sentir por otros, a ser capaz, por muy breves momentos, de "ponerme en sus zapatos". Nuevos mundos se abrieron ante m. Comenc a comprender mi posicin en el mundo. Yo no era el centro del universo. (qu calamidad me pareci descubrir eso!) Yo era una parte de un misterio gigantesco, maravillosamente misterioso. No poda probarlo, porque no saba nada acerca de l. Slo poda dar vueltas a su alrededor con una curiosidad infantil, Y an

estoy dndole vueltas. Nunca descubrir, ni lo har ninguno de nosotros, los secretos del universo. Pero podemos aceptar sus misterios, la parte que tenemos en ellos, y nuestras vidas y muertes; como algo espiritual ms all de nuestra comprensin. Comenc a observar a mis hijos. Eran gente pequea, importante. Me di cuenta de que mientras estaba bebiendo, no los haba tratado ms que como a pequeas mquinas que yo haba creado, como si yo hubiera sido parte de un juego de Mecano y hubiera estado orgullosa de ello. Al ir cambiando mi manera de tratarlos, los vi empezar a madurar, a enfrentarse a al realidad de la vida tal como sta es. Extend una mano para ayudar a alguien, aunque slo escuchando algunas veces, y sent una extraa satisfaccin al ser capaz de ayudar: un descubrimiento increble para m!. Aprend mi propia versin de lo que es la espiritualidad. No significa que tengo que ser como los santos que dicen tener consejos directos y visiones de Dios. Significa que tengo que interesarme por mis semejantes; nicamente a travs de esto puedo recibir la gracia de Dios, Mi Poder Superior, porque como dijo John Donne, mucho antes de A.A., "ningn hombre es una isla". Comenc a sentir seguridad en mis nuevos sentimientos espirituales, hasta que fue sacudida una noche por un amigo de A.A. quien me dijo "muy bien, as es que puedes aplicar a tu vida personal el Paso Tres y una fe espiritual en Dios, pero cmo puede aceptar las terribles calamidades que suceden alrededor de nosotros todos los das?". Me enfrentaba otra vez, peligrosamente, con los interrogantes de mi religiosa, pero no espiritual, infancia - cmo puedo aceptar una fe en u Dios quien permite esos monstruosos crmenes contra el hombre, a pensar, llena de miedo, sobre la muerte y el sufrimiento, no el mo, sino el de toda la humanidad. Comenc a dudar demasiado de mi nueva fe - comenz a invadirme el pnico. Comenc a buscar las respuestas fuera de la literatura de A.A. Afortunadamente para m, antes de que hubiera ledo demasiado acerca de las creencias espirituales (un rea que slo estaba llevndome a la confusin), me di cuenta de que estaba pidiendo demasiadas cosas y demasiado pronto. Prudentemente, dej los libros de filosofa para mentes ms capaces que la ma. No poda arriesgarme a llegar a una mayor confusin mental. Regres a las enseanzas de A.A., las cuales ya me haban salvado de una vida de tormentos. No necesitaba buscar ms all de los Doce Pasos y de las fortalecedoras palabras de la Oracin de la Serenidad. "De aceptar las cosas que no puedo cambiar". Mi respuesta personal est ah en la palabra "aceptar". Aceptar el lugar del hombre en la escena universal. Aceptar mi vida como una diminuta partcula del todo. Ninguno de nosotros puede nunca profundizar las glorias y las regiones desconocidas del universo. Pero podemos vivir sobre la tierra y amarnos los unos a los otros. Podemos dejar que nazca en nosotros el inters por otros, la compasin y la consideracin, y observamos como crecemos. Con las herramientas y las instrucciones de seales de Alcohlicos Annimos, podemos aprender un poco de este precioso regalo: nuestra puerta de entrada a la espiritualidad humana. Nueva York. EXTASIS No podemos estacionarnos en un A.A. ni fro ni caliente, ni de medias tintas al trabajar los Pasos, o dedicarnos demasiado a envejecer y descansa en nuestra sobriedad de hoy. No, si queremos conservarnos sobrios. No! Yo creo que tenemos que continuar buscando algo mejor que la penumbra de la rutina, mejor que una vida comn, mejor que la espiritualidad mediocre. En un artculo llamado "la Bsqueda del Extasis", escrito para el A.A. Grapevine, el filsofo Gerald Heard dice, "Parecera . . . que ninguno de nosotros est viviendo en una medida

suficientemente alta, como para ser capaz de enfrentar las tensiones a las que ahora estamos propensos a ser expuestos, sin que os resquebrajemos . . . El alcoholismo (como todas las adiciones) no es una base para buscar una cabal tranquilidad. Es en s un deseo de ese xtasis, ese "levantarse" fuera de esas cercadas lagunas de conformismo, all donde no existen an mapas de los ocanos, en donde la nica gua son las estrellas del cielo". Alienta en cualquier lugar un alcohlico sobrio para quin este pasaje no sea de un profundo significado?. Hace algunos aos me encontraba sentado en un bar de Nueva York hablando con un periodista que acababa de perder otro trabajo a causa de su bebida. Estaba interesado en mi historia como A.A. Pero se encendi como un rbol de navidad, iracundo, perdiendo el inters en cualquier cosa que se refiera a regenerarlo a l . . . ese da. Se me vino una idea. Dije, "Sabes H., creo que uno de los grandes placeres de fugarse mediante la bebida, es esa sensacin de encontrarse a muchos kilmetros de distancia de los idiotas. T ests caminando por diferente ruta, con diferente horario, diferente msica, con una excitacin realmente existencialista, en el filo de la navaja entre placer-dolor, progreso-desastre". Y ms cosas con el mismo efecto. Me di cuenta que el fin tena un atento escucha H. dijo que as era exactamente la situacin. Lo que le atraa era vivir muy lejos de todo, con desastres o sin ellos. Vivir como lo idiotas era un aburrimiento, un arrastrarse por el suelo, una maldicin imposible. Ahora creo que se completamente infructuoso esfuerzo de Paso Doce (rezo porque H. pueda ahora estar dentro de A.A. en algn lugar) me ayude a m. Desde entonces nunca dej de estar consciente del hecho de que, como un alcohlico, era mejor no fijar mi puntera en ser yo como los dems, sencillamente tan comn, tan indolente. De hecho, yo no s realmente como es un ser comn - o sea, un no alcohlico - as es que no debo dejar que en mi mente se establezca una idea falsa de cmo vivir normalmente. No; djenme adherirme por un momento a la opinin del Sr. Heard. Su nfasis est hecho para m. Si como un alcohlico voy a "levantarme fuera de esas cercadas lagunas de conformismo" y permanecer sobrio, - cmo lo voy a hacer? Unindome a una guerrilla? Yndome de hippie? Dedicndome al Yoga? Bueno, yo tengo una respuesta: practicando los Doce Pasos. Inspidos? He intentado practicarlos? No lo intent mucho por cierto en lo que se refiere a los tres primeros Pasos durante mis dos primeros aos dentro de A.A. Mi opinin sobre los nueve Pasos restantes era que slo estaban ah para completar el cuadro: eran ms bien piadosos que prcticos. Uno no necesitaba forzosamente ir tan lejos y cosas por el estilo. Pero tuve, durante mi jornada, un poquito de mala suerte. Me sent dentro de un torbellino: trabajo, salud, familia, todos parecan correr sobriamente alocados al mismo tiempo. Y fui impulsado (ahora lo veo como si por una fuerza espiritual) a intentar los Pasos Cuatro y Cinco, inventario y confesin. No hice un buen trabajo. Escribi una parte del inventario, pero no todo. Dije alguno de mis errores, los ms agobiantes, pero todos. A pesar de sos, obtuve de ellos un excitante ao de progreso espiritual. En alguna forma importante, haba cambiado. Entonces vino una baja en el ritmo, como evidentemente tiene que suceder siempre. Empec a creer que los Pasos Seis y Siete requeran ms trabajo. Interesante, Difcil. Existencialista. El filo de la navaja de desastre-progreso. Una nueva y extraa presencia de Dios y de m mismo. Me di cuenta de que no puede haber "laguna de conformismo" para el hombre que se encara a sus defectos de carcter, los confiesa, llega a estar listo para cambiarlos y le pide a Dios que se los cambie. Dinamita! Me atrevo a prender la mecha? No puedo hacer algo as como dejar que todo pase de largo, y quedarme en un promedio de manera de vivir, modesto, tranquilo, corriente, no muy espiritual? Despus de todo X puede hacerlo, tambin Y y

tambin Z. Pero ellos, son alcohlicos? Bueno, no lo son. Y, en realidad, S algo acerca de sus vidas espirituales? Bueno, no lo s. Regreso hacia m mismo. Necesitaba ser otro. Esa es la razn por la que beba. Y an necesito ser otro. Habiendo probado el txico camino de las drogas, y en exceso, djenme intentar el "remedio" (en palabras de Heard) camino de los Pasos, el camino de la salud y la alegra. Los Pasos son la medicina especifica para aquello que est equivocado (o correcto, eso no importa) dentro de m: el alcoholismo. Ellos son el camino para ser otro . . . y cuerdo por el mismo precio. He llegado hasta el punto: ahora s que lo que est implcito al practicar el programa de A.A. en su totalidad, tal como lo transmitieron los primeros A.A., no es la perspectiva de volverme un santurrn. Es en cambio la "amenaza" de estar verdaderamente vivo, consciente y an quizs en xtasis. Estoy convencido que si no acepto todo lo que este programa ofrece (o demanda), y en su lugar me alejo de el como si fuera algo de ms precio de lo que negoci, podra emborracharme. En otras palabras, si no trabajo seriamente y en su totalidad los Pasos de A.A., no puedo esperar encontrarme "dentro del programa". Vermont. Kansasmae, there are many books that are "AA approved." Right off hand, I can't think of any that are "AA unapproved." Conference approval doesn't mean that the publication is going to be much help to a newcomer, just that it has passed the criteria for approval. I'm with Kenny. Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't it help to get sober in order to live sober? And doesn't Step Twelve say we've had a spiritual awakening "....as the result of these Steps..." ? When I was at sea, our conversations and discussions centered around two topics-booze and/or sex. The young sailors would hear the salts tell of what they drank, where they drank, who they drank with, and what they did when they drank. Oddly, during those discussions, not a single sailor got drunk. We can discuss all different methods of getting sober, read all the books on getting sober, learn how millions of others got sober, but until we take the action of the Twelve Steps, we won't get sober. Jim S. Welcome, Lia! Glad you are here. I also suffer from depression and did the self injury. Know that in AA that you are not alone. We will love you so you can learn to love yourself. Keep going to meetings, keep in touch with your sponsor, and enjoy this wonderful board. The photo I posted is an old one from the days of Bill W. I always feel warm inside when I look at it because this is a reminder that we are not alone in Alcoholics Anonymous. The two men are doing service work and spreading the message by visiting this lonely alcoholic.

Man, you are like a raw nerve ending. Someone with contented sobriety does not show up geared for battle saying the things I copied above. Why do some of the posters to this (and many other) site(s) remind me of page 27, line 6? Jim. I've been reading in the big book with my sponsor and all the time she's asking me if I can relate to this or that and I'm like yeah, I can relate to it from my bipolar but not from my drinking... like making all these plans of what I'm going to do and being really determined, and in the book it says that person couldn't do it because they started drinking again... well I've done that, made all the plans and started things and didn't do it because of my anxiety or bipolar, not because of drinking. And when I get to things like that I start thinking "Ok I don't really have a problem, it's my bipolar that's the problem" when in reality I know if for no other reason my drinking's a problem because of that phenomenon of craving, after that first drink I can't stop until I'm sick or passed out, every time. There are things I can relate to in it with the drinking here and there... but there's a *lot* I can't relate to with the drinking and when I get to those things I start trying to tell myself "see, I don't have a problem". And then I read and hear all these stories of people hitting rock bottom before they got help and I never hit rock bottom, I didn't lose anything from drinking except my dignity back when I was partying, I just knew it was a problem because my most recent binge lasted 3 weeks of every night drinking and I got sick one too many times, I probably wouldn't have thought to go to AA if my cousin hadn't said something about it a week before I decided to go, telling me I needed help. I would've just rode it out and waited until the binge was over and gone another few months until the next binge. I don't know where I'm going with this... just thinking out loud I guess... just kinda feeling like I can't really relate to a lot of things right now. I had a hard time with sponteniety in social situations for years. It even made my 4th step it was so bad. I discovered that "for me" it had to do with selfish-self centeredness and control. there are going to be social situations that I will be "thrown" into and instead of focusing on the fact that I dont like it - I try to find something pleasant about the situation and try to add something to it rather than expect to gain something to it (the

big book talks about this regarding drinking situations on pages 100-102 and I can apply that in other situations as well. I have less of a problem with needing control in social situations than I used to --- a by-product of learning how to live and let live I suppose. BTW this isnt an analysis of you --- it is me sharing about me - just wanted to make that clear I think some of this stuff is a natural part of the journey -- transitions -- looks like things are changing in areas of your life and they're maybe making you feel a bit uncomfortable. I get these moments too. The more they happen to me the more I can see my old life falling away. But excitment? To be honest, Neil, I get much of that feeling from working with other drunks. I'm serious.You want drama? Thrills? Adrenalin rushes? I get all of that and more -- unexpected gifts...from doing for others what others did for me. I don't do nearly enough of it, but what I do has a habit of "repaying" me a few times over. The kind of excitment I have today is something that no amount of dry white wine could ever buy. I don't know anything for sure, really. I'm very much a novice in this new life; I only know that it's worth hanging onto.

My mom was twenty. The third woman from the left is her sister 18. The other girls and boys/men are their cousins who lived in New Jersey. The kid in the middle back row Jack, lived in Centerport here on the island. This is a great topic. I certainly have had problems being with groups of people. I teach, and I feel more comfortable in front of a classroom than I do with a person one on one. When I was younger, I was punked out. I used that as a way to tell people to get the heck away from me. I've always had an excuse of why people wouldn't like me, I'm too fat, too tall, too scary looking, etc. There are always going to be people who don't like you, but they are probably more anxious than you are! One thing I have discovered in AA is that you can never assume that someone is like you or not by their age, appearance, sex, race, etc. We have more in common than anyone would ever guess. I've always put it on other people to make ME feel comfortable. Not anymore! It is not their responsibility. I still love my alone time, but I also feel much better when I don't isolate. When I isolate, I get anxious, and I want to use. I don't want to use anymore, so I don't isolate. Period. Jane Or "Coming down, is the hardest thing" Tom Petty. LOL, Kenny. Always wanted to sky dive, butt.......no thanx. Like to keep me feet on the ground. Neil, Thanx for your post. Ya I have felt that way a few times. I am getting a little old to be jumping out of planes, especially without a parachute. Going back to drinking

would have the same effect. I used to miss the night life, especially the dancing. I don't miss the headache, feeling tired all day, etc. I have found a lot of excitement in firsts in sobriety. Like going down a snowy incline on a tube, or another first, going down a water slide. Taking a ride on a renovated WWII DUK on a lake, well you get the drift. I guess I am growing up and slowing down, I just don't miss that life any more. I have had enough danger while drinking to last two lifetimes. Good thing God looks after little children and drunks. Hoping your 24 is serene and sober. Huggs-Tessa