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TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF CINDY ANTHONY CASE NUMBER 08-74777 April 21, 2009 CA - CINDY ANTHONY SB SCOTT BOLIN, FBI SM - STEVE MCELYEA, FBI UF UNKNOWN FEMALE VOICE

(Talking in hallway) UF: CA: I'll put on some fresh coffee. I don't drink coffee.

UF: You don't drink coffee? CA: SB: No, I never have, never (Inaudible)... In case you run out of water I got a water jug I can fill (Inaudible)... I'm gonna a glass of water CA: Okay, thank you. Where.. SB: Go ahead you can sit over there . CA: Sure. SB: CA: This is all my stuff and his stuff. Oh.. how you holding up? It gets harder every day it really does. Because I.. the reason we reached out to you is because of our frustrations with Orange County ... SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... Sheriff's Department and stuff. And it's just.. I think it, I think the focus is not on finding Caylee and that's very frustrating to us. SB: Right. I understand.

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1 CA: And she's the most important thing.


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SB: CA:

You're right. Finding her and the quicker we can find her then everything else will fall right into place.

SM: And you did introduce your... SB: Yes I did. I was gonna say.. apologize that I...

CA: Steve. SB: SM: ....have not.... To Scott (Inaudible)... Steven.

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CA: You're Steve? SM: Yes ma'am. CA: You're the Steve, right.

SB: Steve works with Seminole County. CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: Right. And he's the one who arranged for us to be able to use this facility... I appreciate this. ...out of the way and... I appreciate this because you know it's just.. ... ... and away from everything else. ...so nice to get away from the media and all the other.. you know stuff that's... Hounds that are out there. I understand. I've been around these situations before. I don't know what Josh told you, but ... CA: You know we really didn't talk to Josh a whole lot about you guys' involvement. But I'm sure you guys had a huge involvement in his situation.

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SB: We did.
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CA: But when Lee knew that I was frustrated the other day and I said, because you know the.. they been telling us that FBI was calling last.. a week ago Monday night. The 28 th , but the 21 st .

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SB:

Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: There was... you know we weren't sure if that was the case or not. And we were kind of wondering why you guys weren't called in, in the beginning when it was said it was a kidnapping. So, and I'm sure there's you know channels of communication and everything. SM: There are. CA: But the more frustration I got was from speaking with this witness from the airport. And you know I urged her to reach out to the FBI and she did. SM: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) CA: And she finally told me some information that I wanted to reach out as well. Because I mean it's just, I think we should be involved.. SB: Are you talking about the lady that was on the plane that...

CA: Wanda Weary, yeah. SB: Yes I have spoke with her twice as a matter of fact. And she felt put some concern out that nothing was being done. I let her know I mean that day we sent out nine leads. CA: Okay. SB: Urn, 'cause I'm working out the Orlando FBI Office and then...

CA: Okay good. SB: Working out that office for three years now.

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CA: Well there was some red flags with her you know. Not her, herself, but her urn, her react.. interaction with the Sheriff's Department. The first red flag was we.. she thought it was strange as did I, that they wanted to meet up with her at a McDonald's to do her statement and a composite sketch. Her and her son at a McDonald's. I mean huh, I don't know what you all do. I mean this is the first time I've really had any major.. My husband was a deputy sheriff in Ohio... SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... for nine years before I met him and he you know was it for another year and a half until we said no more that's enough. I want to have a husband and a son for my.. I mean a father for my son at the time. SB: CA: Right. I mean so we're, you know I.. we don't know all the ins and outs and things like that. SB: Right.

CA: But I mean I would not imagine you'd take a fourteen year old and a woman to a McDonald's to do, get a written statement and do a composite sketch. That was kind of like a red flag and we were just kind of wondering were they blowing her off. She kind of felt like they were blowing her off. And her.. her stuff was so compelling I mean things that she said. She even said that she... Caylee had said her name. And the way she said Caylee's name. Because whenever someone would call in and tell us that they've already spoken with the you know the tip line. Now this particular tip came in urn, a week ago Tuesday on the 22 nd . She called me.. in fact I have urn, I take good notes all the time. She had called me on the 22 nd . I... we got home from the urn, bond hearing and I always listen to the messages to see if there's anything I need to take care of right away. And

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hers was probably about a four minute message. And then I called her back and after I got done speaking with her, we probably spoke for ten minutes, I immediately hung up and relayed everything she told me to Detective Melich. And I documented 8:40.. I mean 8:14 P.M. that I spoke with him on the 22 nd . SB: CA: SB: CA: Okay. On his voice mail and told him everything about the, her sighting. Okay. And what she said, gave her the name and everything like that. She told me she had a difficult time getting through to the tip line. She said, she'd been.. had been trying since she got back from her trip. SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And she didn't know until she got back from her trip, which was that weekend that Caylee was a missing person or she would've said something prior to that. SB: CA: Right. I mean the things that she talked about Caylee.. is Caylee. So, that's why it was kind of compelling. I mean from the baby doll to how she spoke. Why Caylee would go up to her puppy. She has Yorkie puppies... Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... she was on the trip to take the Yorkie puppy. We have two Yorkie puppies at our home. Um, you know that she came up to her and her son and they spent ten to fifteen minutes with this girl. Not just sighting across a restaurant like some of `em have come in. Or across you know the street at a gas station or what have you. This person said that she stated her name. She stated the fact that she was two almost three. I mean there's a lot of things that you know

CB:

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sounded right. The other thing was she had a cap on. A lot of kids don't like
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caps. Cay... Caylee has a lot of hats different types of hats, scarves... SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... things like that. Those usually don't stay on, but typical baseball cap type of thing she'll wear, she likes those. And down to the baby doll that had no clothes on. Caylee's MO as soon as you give her a new baby it's stripped down to nothing. (laugh) SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: And you know Casey and I constantly try to keep the clothes on the baby doll. So, just things like that, that you know. And then the fact that she said Caylee and she said she really couldn't tell what the middle name was. 'Cause when Caylee speaks her name, full name she'll say Caylee Marie Antony. If you, if you ask her what her first name is she'll say Caylee. If you ask her middle name she'll say, Marie. And if you ask her what her last name is she says, Anthony very clearly. But when she runs it to, you know when she says it all as one big... SB: CA: SB: Right. ...sentence, which for a little girl that's a sentence. Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: Three you know parts of her name. the Antony comes out Antony instead of Anthony. So, again these are all .. I told her to describe what you saw. I mean I didn't say anything to her one way or the other that, oh my God this is it, this isn't it you know. I mean so, those were the things that were very compelling. The fact... I mean she described her down to what she was wearing and things like that and she noticed the other lady. So, her frustration later on was from the 22 nd

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until what last Friday or Thursday she really didn't have any follow-up. And she was concerned about that urn, that she had not a follow-up with urn, anybody. SB: I can.. maybe allay some of those words for you in as much as a lot of times that's the problem. CA: I know. SB: With lead, tipsters and stuff like that. They want to know what happened.

CA: I know. And quite frankly it's our job...

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CA: You don't always know. SB: ...to take it. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) To run the lead. But we're not going to tell them because that influences later on. Exactly.

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SB: CA:

SB: What they come with. CA: Exactly.

SB: And, and we understand. We understand it, we hope that they understand it. But ah, we want you to know that those leads were followed up. We did identify the kids that were on that plane. CA: Did you? Okay.

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CA: Alright. Because the detective told my urn, son on the weekend, which was Saturday, just this past Saturday. That they urn, wasted a lot of time at the Orlando Airport tip. And that the video did not pan out. You know that there was you know nothing. Well, I have.. I know someone that works at the airport. They said their.. the video is not available because the video had already run over.

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So, I don't know if that's true or not. So, if they're telling us that they looked at a video and didn't see Caylee on that video. Then is that truthful or is.. was there a video and whatever. I don't know, I don't know about videos I know that and perhaps you know a little bit more about this particular instance? With the manifest and that kind of stuff? SB: CA: SB: CA: Yeah. I know that you know I talked to Wendy like I said twice. Wanda? Um, I'm sorry Wanda (Inaudible)... (Inaudible)... And ah, that she you know raised some concern on Friday about nothing being done. And I explained to her ah, well actually after that we'd actually ah, received information from Orange County. Some of the.. 'cause we're trying to handle the out of state leads. And forward `em to the appropriate jurisdiction where those agents can go out. CA: SB: Right. And ah, contact those individuals. That's what happened in this case and that was like one of nine other cases that we sent out that day. CA: SB: Okay. Urn, and really the only reason I called her in the first place was. Sometimes you just don't know whether people hear what they really did. CA: SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Ah, because this one child's name was ah, a similar name. And it's, it's like a female being called Debbie Lynn or Donna Lee. CA: SB: Right. And someone asked your name well it's Donna Lee smith.

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CA: SB:

Right. Urn, and that's wanted to find out is this why, you know are you sure and certain what she heard.

CA: SB: CA: SB:

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) I never got to that point. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Urn, because ah, she was confident in her mind that when the little girl said my name is so and so. This is what she expressed to me, she said, no and she kept on referring to her as Caylee.

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CA: SB:

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And so I said well my point is moot. I don't think she's.. she's got the mind set that this is what she feels happened.

CA: SB: CA: SB:

Right. So, urn... Well... ... you know and I understand that and I wasn't trying to change her mind whatsoever.

CA:

No. Oh I understand that to. But she thought it was a red flag to 'cause she said the urn, agent at that time she thought it was Steve but wasn't sure.

SB: CA:

Right. And she said the one question that they asked is urn, did she speak with Mr. Baez, Jose Baez Casey's attorney. And she said, no and she hadn't. I hadn't even given that information. Right. I was trying..

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SB:

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CA:

Jose has not let up...

SB: Yeah. CA: The only person and urn, I had not spoken to any person regarding Wanda's name to anybody except to Detective Melich when I gave him that. To (Inaudible)... SB: Oh yeah. CA: 'Cause I'm not gonna rat out any lead or tip. SB: CA: SB: Right. Or do anything that's gonna jeopardize the investigation for... I was trying to find out was this first hand knowledge she had. And was there any interaction with him. How did this lead get out there. Ah, 'cause you know it's strange when all of a sudden somebody's calling you and not the crime line. But you just explained ... CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: Well she tried. Yes that's.. She said she tried for over two days.... And then, we had... ...and it wouldn't go through. .... no knowledge about that at that time. Right. And so after talking to her that day you know like I said, we did send those leads out. And then once again she called again on Monday. And ah, I was actually waiting on someone else for this case to get involved doing something else. And ah, she wanted to come in and talk. I said, well how many times have you talked to Orange County? She said well three different times and I provided a sketch

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but they haven't put the sketch out there. I said well you've talked to them three
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different times I don't feel there's anything else you can really add to me. I said... CA: SB: Right. ...we, this lead has been you know sent out. It's gonna be taken care of. And those were her concern I guess. And she threw some things out there like you know it's falling on deaf ears, nothing's going on. I said, ma'am unfortunately in cases like this. There's gonna be leads from everywhere. CA: Absolutely. SB: Everywhere and so there's.. there's you know Orange County they're doing what they can. To you know look at these leads that's why you know we're trying to handle the out of state leads. FDLE is trying to handle the instate leads. I mean and there's a lot of people involved and not helping some people I understand. And some people.. CA: SB: CA: I just... ... understand that. ...I hope they are doing everything they can because she urn told me that right after that person did her.. the sketch. Urn, actually she's involved her 14 year old son in this too, you're well aware of that. Her 14 year old son... SB: CA: Right. ...was also brought into McDonald's, statement taken. I mean most mothers wouldn't bring in their children into something like this unless there was... they would have pretty you know definite feelings about it. I know I certainly wouldn't involve my kids if.. on a whim on something of this magnitude. Urn, I lost my point. Oh that the officer, after I took the sketch he leaned into her and says, I don't know why we're doing this 'cause the little girl's dead. And that's upsetting

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to family members, it's upsetting to people like her. Um, to hear those types of things. And from the way everything's being handled right now, you know it's very obvious right now that they're focusing their concerns on building a case against my daughter. And for whatever reasons you know that's fine they can do whatever they want. But I don't want the investigation stopped into looking for Caylee. Because urn, I know my daughter did not kill her and I have more and more things that I want to share with you today. Urn, and urn, it's just it's just very disheartening the way everything is from the judge it sounds like.. I mean nobody on these charges or not even charged, she's not even charged with anything should be treated this way. I mean a half a million dollar bond on something for two misdemeanors and a third degree felon. She hasn't even been formally charged with anything. I mean ... SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: When you say she hasn't been formally charged with anything. She hasn't been charged with anything. You mean in relation to what? Into anything that would constitute urn, a half a million dollar bail. Okay, but she have... we are all understanding she has been formally charged with crimes. CA: SB: Not that.. as far as her attorney said she hasn't been formally charged with... The way it works she hasn't been formally charged with anything as it relates to the disappearance of Caylee itself. CA: SB: CA: SB: Right. She has been charged with crimes as they relate to the investigation part. Right, like you know misleading... Okay.

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CA: SB: CA: SB: CA:

....or something like that. Right, the obstruction and interference and... And... ....child neglect. ....child neglect. Of which..

SB: Which are crimes. CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: ....they're saying. Right if there's child neglect. But... Right. But I'm not saying guilty. Right. Not guilty. Right. What I'm saying is.. But the thing of it... ... I want to clarify to you... ... is the way the media is and the way the sheriff's department is focusing and even the judges' rulings. I mean it's hard for the public.. I mean I get phone calls all the time that say you know that they're saying that urn, they stand behind us they believe Casey, they believe in everything we're doing and they believe Caylee's alive. But we got this one or two phone calls that say, give it up, she's dead things like. It only takes one of two people like that that could potentially be looking for her. That may have crossed her path that we're impeding finding this child. And that's the point where I'm very frustrated with. Because it's almost like in the eyes of the media and the eyes of the Orange County Sheriffs Department they always have.. they already have an open and shut case against my daughter. There's a lot of evidence out there that's not evidence yet. There's

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a lot of urn, mis-statements out there of things. And just from even the holes in
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Melich's report there's holes all in it and mis-statements. So, there's also a lot of clues that Casey's been giving. And I guess that's what brings us even before last night um, there was a lot of concerns, lot of red flags. My son and my husband and I have had an opportunity to get past that initial shock of not having Caylee in our lives right now. Urn, we're starting to put things together and it does make a lot of sense. She's been saying all along that she's doing the best she can. Just wants someone to hear what she's trying to say. SB: Right.

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interviewing her.

She said she wanted to speak with someone from your

department. She does not have the faith in Detective Melich or Sergeant Allen. She also states that she would've been willing to speak with Appie Wells, who is a detective that, or one of the deputy sheriff's that was at our house on Tuesday late evening to Wednesday the 16 th , early morning. And that's in those videos. I don't know why that has not been, that has not taken place. But Orange County Sheriff's Department's aware of that and so is her attorney. SB: Right.

CA: And I'm not sure why that communication... SB: CA: SB: Well let me... ...out there. Let me, let me breach that subject with you. Part of the problem is, that Casey is a charged individual. She is a represented individual. If she says, I want to talk to the FBI or she says, I want to talk to FDLE or whom ever she says to you. That's fine, but unless she calls me.

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CA:
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Uh-huh. (Affirmative) I cannot initiate that contact at all.

SB:

CA: Okay. SB: Because she is a represented individual. If I were to go to want to talk to her. What I have to do is I have to go to her attorney. CA: Okay. SB: And, and that's the only way that I can talk to her. Your attorney is going to her attorney. CA: Right. That's how.. I apologize. Her attorney is obviously going to have certain stipulations. Certain rules about her conversation. CA: Right. Right I understand that.

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SB: My, my rules for Casey would be very simple. You were the last person with her. CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

SB: There have been inconsistencies and outright untruths that have been provided to law enforcement up to this point. What is going to change in our conversation that is going to help us find Caylee. That's what.. that's all I would want to know. Because quite frankly I've listened to a little bit of what she has told them and what she has done up to this point. And I think we would be in agreement if we're looking at her from the outside in. CA: And not knowing what her motive is. SB: And not knowing what her motives are. There, there have been misleading things done by her on certain occasions with regard to finding Caylee. CA: Right.

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SB: CA: SB: CA:

Not with regard to anything else, with regard to .. Right. ...strictly finding Caylee. Right. Well, and I think understanding urn, a little bit more everyday, again she's maintained from the day one that Caylee was taken away from her you know. She handed you know she gave in good faith Caylee to this person that day. And then was betrayed by that person. Urn, and that person has.. you know is not bringing her back. And is trying to make either some statement um, to Casey, which now makes more sense. I mean I'm finding a little bit more out having a conversation with her that I didn't have an opportunity to speak with her that, those few hours that I had with her.

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SB:

Right.

CA: Wednesday morning before she went in. And understanding her fears. I mean Casey's a lot like um, I am as far as regards, I would lay down my life for all of my children. If I knew right now that someone picked up the phone and says, Mrs. Anthony take a butcher knife and put it through your heart and we'll return Caylee, I would do it without question. That's.. I would do that without question. And uh, knowing Casey the way she is, she'll do anything to protect her daughter as far as if she feels that she's in harms way or her family. And those... I hope you guys get to see the urn, tapes of George and my visitation with her because she.. she's talks about this that she is protecting the family. And I made her clarify that because if somebody protecting the family with, if you're protecting about our feelings or what people might think. Our lives are out there I mean there's nothing you can do that we're.. that could hurt us anymore then the loss of not having Caylee with us and even having you where you're at.

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SB: CA:

Right. She says it's not emotional mom it's physical. So, I have to believe that she's fearful that someone is threatening her daughter or one of us. And what I'm gonna be telling you may make more sense to that. The more you start thinking.. she told me remember the conversations mom. When she talked to the detectives that night you know she told them that she you know um, couldn't take the hurt. You know them to Caylee okay.

SB:

Right.

CA: Because she didn't know where Caylee was at. But she knew who had Caylee okay. But she didn't know where they holding Caylee. And um, Casey told me 'cause I asked her I says, well why were you not where you said you were? And she says, well mom if I'd come home without Caylee it'd been a red flag. You would of called the authorities. She goes it wouldn't been safe. You know um, it wouldn't been safe. That's why she didn't feel comfortable going to she was very relieved when I drove her to the first um, police annex. If you listen to the 911 the first 911 tape I drove her to the police annex. Mainly just to say can you help convince her I need to, I want to see my granddaughter. Because it, it just didn't make sense all at that point to me there was a big red flag. SB: Okay I want to ask you a question.

CA: Yes. SB: Before you go on.

CA: Yes. SB: And have you listened to the new information that you haven't even told me yet? CA: (No verbal response). SB: Step back look at it objectively, does it makes sense to you?

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CA: Yes it does.


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SB: Okay. CA: Everything's making sense more and more everyday. SB: Okay. CA: More and more. SB: Because I can tell you how..

CA: If I'd known what I know now. SB: ... it does look to the outsider.

CA: Well I know it does look weird to the outside world, but they don't know all the little things, all the other ..everything else that's going on. They don't know the conversations that we've had. And she told me in our conversation at the Sheriff's Depart.. or the when we were at the urn, visitation. SB: Yeah. CA: Video visitation. She said mom, remember everything I told you over the last month. Think about things that we talked about. Where I said that we were, who we said, who I said I was with. You'll figure it out. And I for a few days was racking my brains. Well I can't figure out what Tampa had to do with it and Jacksonville had to do with it. And I'm thinking cities it's not so much cities as where she said she was at or what they were doing at that particular time. And last night I received a phone call at 4 o'clock somebody from Seattle, Washington called me with a thought you know. Waking me up at 4 o'clock in the morning. Finally I'd actually fallen asleep for a night where I could've gotten more then 2 or 3 hours together. So, I, I asked her if it was something pertinent and she said she thought it was. But it really wasn't it didn't.. it wasn't anything it was just a thought that she had. But while I was up I just got this weird feeling and I go oh

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my God! 'Cause when something occurred to me about what she said about
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thinking about the conversations. And all of a sudden I was already awake and I just sat there and I started writing things just writing things down. And this is something I did.. I even out it out.. I didn't even think about what my son had said a couple of weeks ago about, mom all her friends.. because I was suspicious of one person, which is still I'm suspicious of. And I've told the authorities of that and um, elaborate on that with you. But Lee said, well what about this, what about this and I'm thinking. Well no I mean I don't see any relevance but the more and more my God I see relevance. Because re-reading this and everything.. um, Casey has stated.. Now for a while there Zanny has referred to as the Zaneida. Um, I never knew Zaneida's full name Zaneida Fernandez Rodriguez until not too long ago. Maybe a month or so ago. The baby sitter's name was always Zanny for short. Just like I'm Cindy short for Cynthia.
My

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friends don't call Cynthia they call Cindy. So, Zanny has been someone she's spoken with for pretty much just before or right around Caylee's birth. So, almost three years that she's been in conversation. You know that she had met this person through a friend that she had met through Universal Studios. And this person um, was a urn, young man who was a single dad and he has a son that's a year older then Caylee. So, Zachary's gonna be 4 where Caylee's gonna be 3. And they're about a month you know a year and a month apart. And so you know this is one compelling thing. I don't think my daughter's..
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granddaughter's birth is plotting this murder for my grandchild. So, this person's not been made up in the last month or two okay. SB: Have you ever met Zanny? CA: No I haven't.

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SB: Okay. CA: And you know it's... I don't really.. you know a lot of people say, well you're grandma you're suppose to be concerned why don't you know. Well you know what? I trust my daughter. I still trust my daughter. SB: Yeah. CA: For her decisions. She has always been and you guys can interview all of her friends that have known her you know, even before Caylee was born, but certainly since Caylee's born. That Casey's primary focus is always Caylee's wellbeing. If she took Caylee somewhere, if someone was smoking she made sure that person was away so that smoke wouldn't you know be around Caylee. I mean everything if she took her to a neighbor's to watch for an hour or so. She had every little thing there that she could possibly need with instructions, phone numbers blah, blah, blah. I mean Casey's always been the type of mom that's you know just perfect. I mean no ever signs of anything. And I mean I lived with her it's not like you know I only visited her once a week or a couple of times a week and got to baby sit Caylee on the weekend. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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CA: I mean they lived with us. She was a loving mother. And you know I hope that the apple doesn't fall to far from the tree. I mean I always felt that I've been an excellent mom with the kids. And was very nurturing and I saw that in the my daughter. And that's why I know um, no way did she do any harm. And I feel that at this, I feel if Casey had done something where she felt that it was an accident I think she would've come forward, I don't think she'd be putting the family through all of this. So, that's why I really, truly believe she would've cracked by now if it was an accident and she was trying to cover something up.

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If it was at her hands like if something happened that Caylee fell, hit her head or
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whatever. I even ran scenarios against urn, with this to the urn, to Sergeant Allen. I said you know we have a pool in the... you know backyard we have an above ground pool, which we had a few years before Caylee was born. And even before Caylee could walk we got in the habit of taking the ladder off every time so that you know... we started a habit. Sure. Prior to having to use that you know need that... Right. ... habit. Urn, just like us locking the sheds or whatever. Locking those up so that Caylee you know when she could.. 'Cause she learned very early how to turn the knob. Casey was the one that went out and bought all the protectors child proof protectors. Half the adults can't open you know..

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CA: SB:

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CA:

....squeeze the knob to get out the doors. So, I mean urn, we're always very mindful of things like that. But I even asked that when they had the cadaver dogs in the backyard. Did you check the rocks around the pool? Because we have the urn, our yard slopes.

SB: CA:

Right. Okay. So, we had to build it up a lot. So, we have retaining wall where the pool is. And I said, did they.. did they look around the pool? Was there anything.. what if she fell getting off the ladder or getting to and from you know.

SB:

Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: Because you have to climb the ladder up and climb down. We never let Caylee climb herself, we're holding her. So, you know God forbid something happened

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she slipped with her foot being wet. They said, no Mrs. Anthony nothing like that. So, that made me feel better in case of that as well. You know and just things like that. I put it out there, you know because it does cross your mind, well what if? That crossed our mind for a brief period of time and then it faded away. Because I'm thinking, that would be the only thing is if something like that happened in the house or whatever. If it happened at someone else's hands I don't think she'd be protecting them. In my heart I know she wouldn't be protecting them. If.. if something happened that was an accident, I think she'd be you know coming out and say, it was an accident I could you know vouch for them blah.. blah.. blah. And she wouldn't be putting the family and everybody through this. SB: Okay. CA: Um, so... (sigh) Zanny to me can be referred to as the person watching Caylee. We've... the other red flag with the Sheriff's Department, they told us right away right that very first night after Casey was taken into custody. And the next day they said that they could only find one Zaneida Fernandez Gonzalez in this area and they checked it out from Kissimmee. Well, since then you know people have been pulling up records, people searches and all over and there's at least nine in Orlando and four or five in Fort Lauderdale and New York. Casey said from the beginning that Zanny was from New York. She then had a Fort Lauderdale connection. She has a Fort Lauderdale phone number at one. Urn, that there was New Jersey connections, there's New Jersey urn, people by this name. So, I'm just saying there are people out there. Just because they didn't find someone right now with this. And Casey had told me over the last three years that Zanny had moved at least three different times that I was aware of.

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SB:
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Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: Okay. I was actually the one that gave the police urn, the last known number that.. address in case I ever needed to go pick Caylee up, out of my address book. And in his report Melich's report it says, an initial responding deputies had

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found a handwritten note with the address of, 232 Glenwood in the defendant's car parked to my arrival. Well, that's not true. They knew they had an address that Casey had provided them that was real close okay to that area. When that didn't pan out I said, well wait a minute. I think I have an address.. I went into my kitchen, pulled out my address book and pulled out that yellow sticky note that had the Glenwood Avenue address. And walked it out and said, I just got this out if my address book, try this one. So, you know I mean just things like that. That's a mis-statement right there. Bottom line is the tie with that 3.. 232 Glenwood Avenue.. That's the address of the person that I think has something to do with... that's all part of this. SB: CA: Is that the apartment complex? It's the apartment complex and urn, these people that I'm gonna talk to you about currently live there. Okay. SB: Okay. CA: So, again if Casey couldn't... did not want to take them directly. And if they knew that she had them right then and there or something. I don't know I don't know all of Casey's reasoning. All I know is what I'm piecing together and I think could be some excellent leads to go on 'cause it's making sense. And if you guys, if it doesn't pan out that's fine I just want to help in anyway that... You guys may start thinking about when I start going into this, it makes a heck of a lot of sense.

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SB: Okay. What, what I want to point out to you and I want you to remember this
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whole time. 'Cause I'm not going to.. mislead you or lie to you or... CA: SB: I understand. ... make you feel good about anything because...

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CA: I know. SB: CA: ...that not my job. I know it's not. What... what I do want you to understand. I want you to keep it in the back of your mind all the time. Is that we have a young lady with a missing two year old child. And she happens to be your daughter. Okay. Understand that. And I understand that she is putting out to you that she's very fearful of her, her daughter's safety for some reason or another. At this point in time it has to be made clear to Casey. That your daughter's safety maybe in jeopardy. But the only way for us to find her is for her to tell us. CA: I know.

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SB:

SB: Why she's concerned. CA: SB: CA: SB: I know. Not elude to. I know. I know. And.. and that, and that unfortunately what's gonna happen is, that's gonna come down to you and your husband. CA: I know. SB: And your son. CA: We're trying.

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I know you are. We are trying to get... There's no doubt in my mind you are. Because I know where you're coming from. I know what you're doing, what you're going through.

CA SB

CA

We're trying, we're really trying to get as much out of her as we can. A couple of months ago way before all this happened. I saw this photograph of Caylee.

SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) I.. I said, oh where was this taken? She said, that's Zanny apartment. Okay. That that's Zanny's apartment. Okay. That.. what... Can we keep this? Or do you need it back? I.. you can have it, I can print another one off the website. Okay, but that picture with the urn, I don't know if you're familiar with the Rock Band with.. that hooks up to Nintendo or one of the things where...

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CA SB CA

SB CA SB CA

Right. ....the kids could play. Yeah they can play drums. Yes. Caylee loves the drums. She's always loved the drums in fact George and I have been kicking around when to get her drums. Third birthday, fourth birthday, fifth birthday. Because the girl can keep a beat.

SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) She's been able to keep a beat since she was two. She's.. I mean with music. I mean she can keep a beat and she loves to bang on the drums. And I asked her about that photograph a few months ago. Because I said, oh you know

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whose apartment is that? Has Caylee been on the drums. She says, yeah and
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Zanny's been teaching her and Zanny also has a keyboard. Well, my daughter has a keyboard. Caylee has a couple of little keyboards, but Casey has a big keyboard. Um, Caylee loves music. I mean Casey did the same thing I did when
I

was pregnant. I introduced the um, I just used to play music all the time to my

belly. I introduced Mozart and Beethoven and Bach and all the classical stuff. Besides what's out there now. You know Casey did the same thing. She borrowed all my CD's and she introduced the same thing. And my kids both love you know music and things like that. And Caylee just loves it, she loves to

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dance, she can... has rhythm I mean it's really cool. SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) So, I think there's something to that invitro stuff that you can really influence a child on you know what they like or don't like. SB CA Right. Um, so I.. that stood out in my mind that several months ago before all of this happened. You know that she said that that was Zanny's apartment. So, the picture right there, Zanny's apartment. And again Zanny may not be Zaneida. Zanny maybe referring to the nanny or the baby sitter someone watching them. Um, so Zanny's apartment right now to me in that photograph is a big clue okay. That picture right there. This was again stated before all this happened. That, that was Zanny's apartment. SB CA And how old is this picture? Probably.. this is, this dress is only since the beginning of the year so probably maybe between March and May. Taken somewhere in that time. SB Okay.

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CA SB

Okay. And urn, and like I said that's... Casey, Casey told you that was Zanny's apartment?

CA Yes I asked her specifically you know where was that taken 'cause I was interested in the drums. You know because I... I didn't recognize that apartment. SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Well, I just found out urn, a week ago that that's Ricardo's apartment. Ricardo was someone that Casey had been seeing and just had broken up with at the... SB CA So, this is Ricardo... ....the week... Ric... week before Caylee went missing. Okay how.. how do you know... how did you find out this is Ricardo's apartment?

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CA Because um, Amy told me. Amy was the person that took me to Casey on the 15th of July. And Ricardo confirmed that when he was at my house a week ago that, that... that indeed is his apartment. SB CA SB CA SB CA SB CA Okay. Okay, so that's Ricardo's apartment. Right. That's a fact. So, it wasn't... Ricardo Morales. ....Zan... it wasn't Zanny's apartment like Casey said it was somebody else's? Yeah someone else's. Ricardo Morales' apartment. Okay, which is very key because the address that she took the detectives to on Glenwood. Ricardo lives in that complex. Ricardo and Amy are roommates now. I just found out that Ricardo and Amy were roommates. SB Okay.

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15'43

1 CA
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That's also Ricardo where he lives. So, that's another thing that's important. Right. The location of his apartment... okay that's the one the picture of Casey.. or of Caylee. And again I haven't put all these thoughts completely down on paper. I was jotting stuff down last night, but...

SB CA

SB

Glenwood right?

CA Yes on Glenwood. SB CA (Inaudible).. And I'm not sure exactly what apartment number it is, but he lives in that complex. In that, over there okay. Urn, the detectives also said that there's a person by the name of Zaneida looking at apartments in that. So, I don't know if Casey knew... I don't know what that tie is in I haven't figure that out or not. But urn, either Sergeant Allen or urn, Detective Melich said that you know a person by that name did look at those apartments sometime back. So, I don't know if Casey was aware of that or what and used that a reference and that's why Zanny came into this picture. SB She.. she's.. well she said specifically from my understanding that she did drop Caylee off at Zanny's apartment at these apartments. CA SB CA SB CA Right, well Ca... That's what, that's what she... my understanding is that was what she told them. Right and Case.. Caylee was at that apartment quite a bit is what I'm getting at. Okay. Yeah she... Urn, from Ricardo statement to the police and to my son. That he.. Casey actually stayed at his house on June the 9 th and the 10th I think. Either June 9th or June 10th that she stayed over and he saw...

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SB Was Caylee with her? CA ...her. Yes. He saw her on June 1 1 th and that's when they had a falling out, on June 11 th . Which was the week before Caylee turned up missing. Because the last time that my husband saw Caylee was the 16th. SB Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA And the 16 th was um, the day that Casey says that you know she went back to get.. pick Case.. Caylee up from the baby sitter's and they weren't there. Okay. So, I think that's a kind of important to because just a week prior. Now the other thing that didn't hit me strangely. Um, Casey has told me all along that urn, Zanny had been a seasonal employee at Universal Studios. Um, I'm not sure I haven't figure this out yet 'cause I haven't had a chance to look into it. I'm not sure if Ricardo's ever worked at Universal. SB And when she refers to Zanny she's saying the person that she dropped Caylee off with? CA Yes. SB CA SB CA Had worked at... And she talks... ....Universal? ... and when she talks about Zanny she talks about um, um, that.. that she was a seasonal and also her roommate was a seasonal. Zanny had a roommate name Jennifer. Is what she told us. And Jennifer was also a seasonal employee and this is key to the conversations that she had with me during the time she was supposedly looking for Caylee. SB Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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CA

And I'll get into that in a moment. Urn, so I think a clue there is a seasonal. And I know you guys don't look on clues or whatever. You're not suppose to be putting a jigsaw puzzle piece together. But sometimes that's what we have to do hen we're trying to figure stuff out. But the seasonal employee, the roommate of Zanny is a seasonal employee. Or and Zanny herself worked at Universal at some time. So, and actually Amy did tell me she does work at Universal Studios. `Cause Amy and I had about an hour conversation. Zanny's the actual urn, first person that I was able to reach out with to. After we picked up the car from the tow place and realized that Casey and Caylee weren't in Jacksonville. I saw.. in the front seat of the car and the police have,., have the bag and everything. And they know that I kept one of the um, there was several rsum's for Amy in..

SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ....Casey's bag. And that's how I got Amy's phone number. Which is also a Fort Lauderdale number by the way. And Casey made reference to that and Lee's con... phone conversation that Zanny had had a Fort Lauderdale phone number. Just FYI. Also that she had... well I'm getting ahead of myself. I don't want to do that. Anyway there was a bag in the front seat of the car that I recognized. Casey's car when we picked it up from the tow place. And it was her bag that she took to work. There's a lanyard missing that I told the Sheriff's Department that's missing. Urn, it was there urn, when we picked up the car. It was there with all of Casey's effects the night the Sheriff's came. It was missing the next morning when we were trying to find it to give to the detectives. And I said there was a lot of police in and out of our home. I don't know if someone picked up or not. It's very distinct and Casey wore it all the time. It was Shamrocks green and white. It was green Shamrocks with white beads and then it had her original

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Universal I.D. on it. Which you know she had since urn, she graduated from high school. Anyway um, that's missing and I don't know where it's at it was there. And it was with this bag and in the bag there was a few other items. I can't remember a belt and couple other things. The police have all that we took inventory. That was the only thing that was missing. Casey never had an opportunity to go into that garage. Because as soon as I brought her home I followed her into the house. My son stayed with her while I was dialing the police. And the police kept her ever since. She was never out of their sight so she never had an opportunity to go into the garage. And it was over we have an ice chest over by urn, our washer and dryer in our garage... SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ....'cause we don't have a laundry room it's in our garage. And I had it over there because I had the bag and Caylee's baby doll that was in the backseat in the urn, in the car seat. SB CA Car seat. that I had taken out trying to air out from the stench that was in the car. And I had already told the deputies everything that was in the car is sitting right here. So, if you guys want to look through it or whatever. But anyway I had pulled out of her bag this resume' that I found for Amy. And Amy's name came to us.. I had heard Casey talk about Amy probably about two months prior to all this. Maybe April and May Amy's name had come up in conversation that she was a friend of hers. She was trying to help her get a job and do some things and she had some resumes and she was gonna try to turn them out. So, urn, a red flag came
to

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us about hm, somewhere about the first, second and third week of June. It

had to be.. no it wasn't the first week I can tell you that. Because Casey wasn't

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home or we had... it was during the time that Casey wasn't at the house. So, it had to be after the 14 th . Somewhere around that week or the next week we got a notice of address change from the post office. You know when they send you the request to change the address. Well it came to Amy... Amy Huizenga with our address on it. And I asked Casey when I had talked to her on one of the times I asked, I said, why is Amy sending a change of address to our house? She's not moving in. She says, no mom.. that Amy wanted to send a package to the house for her roommate instead of it going to her home. You know in Oviedo she wanted it to come to the house. I said, well that doesn't make sense Casey 'cause you don't need to do a change of address you just tell whoever, where ever you it to be shipped you just ship it to that address and just alert someone that lives at that address. You don't go through the address change. So, anyway.. excuse me. SB CA Well I'm sorry. Sorry. When urn, I happened to find this I called.. I called Amy that night I called her. And I said, Amy unbeknownst to me that Amy had just seen Casey a few hours earlier I told her who I was. I said, this is Mrs. Anthony I said Casey's mom. I said, have you seen... And she was the first person I reached out to when.. after we found the car and I knew. You know besides leaving Casey a message, where in the heck are you? Um, I urn... she answered the phone, she was at the Florida Mall. And she... I said, have you seen Casey in the last few days or so? Just playing off like there's nothing wrong. And she says well Mrs. Anthony she just picked me up from the airport a few hours ago. She says, I just got back from Puerto Rico. And I says really, I said, and how did she pick you

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up? She said, that she had lent her, her car for the last week because Casey's car was in the shop. SB CA So, Casey was driving Amy's car? Casey was.. had been driving Amy's car. And I said, well do you have your car now? She goes no I'm at the mall with a friend. I said, well where is your car does Casey still have it? She says, no um, I dropped Casey back off at Tony's. I believe that's where she was at. And she says, my car is at my apartment and um, she says I'm with a friend at the mall. And I said, well how long do you think it'll be able to get back to the apartment? I'd like to meet up with you and talk to you. And she says, well I don't know might be here for a little while. So, I let Amy in I said, Amy I said, I don't know where Casey is and I'm not sure if Caylee's with her or not. I'm a little bit concerned I said, do you think I could come and pick you up? I said, because I'm not that far. I mean we live close to the airport. SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And it would be maybe twenty minutes to half hour. She says, well let me call back. Let me, let me make a call and I'll call you back. So, about five minutes went by and then she called me back and said, sure I'll meet you at the urn, food court. So, she says, I told her I'd call her as soon as I got off the urn, 528.... SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) .... and got real close. So, that she could come out 'cause it was starting to storm that night and I told her. So, I actually called her when I got into the parking lot of the mall. And 'cause I had never seen her I didn't know what she looked like. I had no idea that this was the picture of the girl that Casey had helped you know. That I had actually seen before and didn't know. This is Amy.

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SB CA

Okay. And that's with Caylee and this is Ricardo with Casey. So, anyway urn, you know Amy got in the car we started talking and I said, do you think you could take me to where Casey's at? She said yeah she said this is the guy that she just met. And I think she staying with Tony. Um, my understanding Tony, she was just helping him promote his um, his band and whatever he does. And urn, they just started to kind of connect. And I did not know him as being boyfriend or anything like that. Ricardo actually thought that they were still boyfriend and girlfriend. I think at this point Casey was using Tony as a place to hangout because she started staying with Tony, when Caylee turned up missing.

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Because she couldn't come home without Caylee. She couldn't go to anyone of he friends that knew her with Caylee. And this Tony just you know met her and really didn't know that much of Caylee. I mean knew that she had a daughter, but wouldn't.. it wouldn't be a red flag 'cause he didn't knew Casey as.. how she was as a mom. If she went to any other one of her friends and stayed for a couple of days. SB CA Right. It would've been a red flag. They would've either called me or called her brother and said, what's up with Casey? And where's.. where's Caylee, why isn't she going home? I mean I think she deliberately was staying with Tony if she... And it makes sense if she's out looking like she says she is trying to backtrack. Trying to find this person and trying to find who has Caylee. That it would not be you know what I'm saying? It just kind of made sense. I'm still not a hundred percent this theory's right. But I'm just saying I want someone to follow this up because it's very compelling everything I'm putting together.

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SB

(No verbal response).

CA Amy was very.. she took me there and immediately stepped away. I wanted to be taken back home. And at that point I (Inaudible)... not too. Casey was kind of surprised when Amy went to the door. I kind of stayed around the corner when Amy went to the door at Tony's apartment. And as soon as she opened the door she went back down the steps 'cause we walked up a flight of steps. And Casey came out and she was surprised to see me. And I knew right away Caylee wasn't in the apartment. And you know if., if I truly thought that Caylee was in danger at that point. I probably would've went in the apartment anyway said, where the hells Caylee. But I didn't do that because I knew right away as soon as I opened the door. Caylee wasn't in there because it was full of smoke. SB CA SB CA SB CA SB CA Can I ask you a question? Full of smoke. Why did you stay around the corner? Because... What prompted you... ...Amy... ... to.. Amy felt like that if she knew I was there that Casey wouldn't open the door at first. SB CA Did she tell you why? No Amy didn't tell me why and I never asked her. 'Cause at that point I really wasn't sure what was going on. I mean I rally didn't know what was going on. SB Right.

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CA

So, I.. hindsight now if I'd had fifty million more questions and I would've done something totally different. I would've gone in there third degree...

SB CA

I understand. ....Tony. Would've looked through his entire apartment see if there's any Caylee um, things or anything like that. But again at that point I still didn't know what was going on. And Casey's remark was, that she was hanging out with Tony. They were working on some stuff. She had dropped Caylee off at the baby sitters. She had maintained that Caylee was at the sitters at that point. She had stated that to me with Amy being gone. 'Cause as soon as Amy opened .. Casey opened the door, Amy went back down to the end of the stairs. And she was back down to where my car was. She did not want to hear anything. She did not want to be anything. And I had no reason to believe at that point that Amy may even have any involvement in anything. Okay so that was not a red flag at that point. Um, so Casey agreed to go with me. I said we need talk. You need to do some explaining. I said, we have the car. We have.. we found the Pontiac it's not where obviously you're not in Jacksonville and neither is the car. So, I said you need to tell me where Caylee's at. And she says, mom I'll.. I'll talk to you but let's get Amy home. So, we drove Amy home, which is over to the Glenwood area. Didn't even think about that when I gave him that, that address. I just.. they were just telling me where, where to go off of Bumby. I didn't even realize that was the area. I mean I don't know.. I mean I don't go down to that area. I don't know what the street names were. And I was just following turn here, turn here, turn here 'cause I'm trying to talk to the girls. We're just chit-chatting about other things and we're trying to get Casey to tell me some stuff. But her and Amy were just kind of you know not talking a whole lot.

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SB

What was, where were they sitting in the car?

CA Casey was in the front seat, Amy was in the backseat. So, Amy was behind me
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because the car seat in my.. we all have a car seat. SB CA SB CA Car seat, yeah. Caylee's car seat's on the... Behind the passenger seat. ....passenger side behind the passenger side, which I feel is the safest place to be. SB Right.

CA So, that's where it was so Amy actually went behind me and Casey was right next to me. SB CA Okay were they taking the whole time? Urn, not really. Didn't say a lot you know and truthfully I can't remember their conversations because it didn't stand out to me. And it really wasn't anything that I was concentrating on. So right now I can't remember specifics. I can't even remember exactly what I said to Casey during that ride home. SB When you dropped Amy off did you drop her off at her apartment or in front of the apartment complex? CA I dropped her off in front of the apartment complex, which was off of Bumby. And I believe that's the location, one of the locations where Casey had taken the detectives. SB CA Okay. That.. okay. Urn, again I'm not sure specifically which apartment Zanny... I mean Zanny, Amy and Ricardo are living in. But I do want so share a conversation I had with Amy on the way to pick up Casey, which is very ..

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SB Okay.
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CA

... pertinent. 'Cause I asked her myself. I said, Amy, I said there was a change of address sent to our house you know with your name on it. Can you tell me why that is? While we're driving to pick up Casey. And she says, well Mrs. Anthony, she said Casey and I we're gonna move into your house. She said.. I said, excuse me? She goes, yeah she says urn, we were gonna be roommates. You and your husband, she said I heard you guys were having issues and you were going to urn, we were gonna move in together and be roommates. And urn, you were gonna urn, you know get an apartment or something close to where you work in Winter Park. And I said, Amy, I said that's not true. However that would explain why she had sent that? It was sent that... right. And I... So, she believed it to be true? Well, that's what she said. Yes that's what she says. Right. She believed it to be true. And she says, I'm homeless. And I said, what do you mean you're homeless? I said I thought you were living... I said, I thought you had an apartment. She says, well I'm living with Ricardo he's my roommate. Urn, didn't really think much of it at that point you know her saying that. I mean I heard Ricardo is one of Casey's friends. You know realized that they had been seeing each other a little bit. And did not know that Ricardo's apartment was actually what Casey was referring to as the baby sitter, Zanny's apartment.

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CA SB CA SB CA

SB CA SB

I'm still.. I'm still a little bit confused. I know you are. Clarify for me.

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CA I know you are.


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SB

Why.. why you're.. why you think at this point that Ricardo's apartment is Zanny's apartment?

CA

Because Casey stated that that picture of Caylee was in the apartment of Zanny, which I'm thinking Zanny could be a generic name for the baby sitter. Someone that was watching Caylee for the day.

SB CA SB

What.. what is, what is Amy's last name? Here you can have this. Um, Hun.. I think it's Hun.... Huizenga. ....Huizenga. Zenga. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Zanny. Um, how long has she and Amy known each other. As far as you know. I don't know. Amy... like I said Amy's actual name started coming up maybe April, May...

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CA SB CA

SB CA

Okay. ... in conversation. And nothing you know before that it was not a whole.. it was.. it was just a somebody she talked about. Again it wasn't a red flag for me to think or take notes.

SB CA SB

Right. So... (sigh) Did you ask Casey if she told Amy that you guys were having problems and that she could move into the house?

CA SB

No I really didn't. Okay.

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CA

Because at that point I didn't see the relevance of it. When I was... when I found out that Caylee was missing. My whole focus was on why and where, why didn't we talk about it and blah.. blah.. blah., blah. And then when Caylee and I... Casey and I actually had a few hours in the morning our focus was on getting the word out so we created the My Space and started making phone calls. To her friends that were in college to start putting word out that Caylee was missing.

SB Okay. CA So, I mean I.. we should've told (Inaudible)... because I figured he Sheriff's had on night long. She was exhausted. I wanted to find out.. I don't know how to work on the computer on My Space things like that. SB CA Right. And to get the information out. And I told her I said, why don't we create a My Space page for Caylee so that it can network throughout all of My Space. You can touch people all over the place. Because the Sheriff's Department had told me in the wee hours of the early morning of Wednesday, the 16 th , that they were gonna make a missing person's report first thing. We actually were looking all day on the news waiting for that report. They said they were gonna notify the FBI. They said they were gonna do this, this and this and it never happened. We didn't... the first time we heard that Caylee was a missing person. Was when we saw Casey's picture they didn't even tell us that they had taken her into custody. We knew she had gone down there for questioning. Until we saw the news that Casey was you know, what.. look like with everybody else. It was shocking the first time they had shown Caylee's picture as a missing person. SB Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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That was another kind of a red flag I might want to say with the Sheriff's because they had promised us that they would report a missing child. Because she was missing regardless whether or not Casey was telling the truth or not Caylee was not a person that we knew were she was at. So...

SB
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Right. And I still believe that she should've been reported as a missing child. And again that's hindsight it's behind us and whatever it's too late to go back and change things. But that's.. that's been a concern of mine from day one. Precious hours, precious hours. And again if I know now what I knew then, I would've gone right to Amy and asked her specific questions or had the police ask her specific questions.

CA

SB CA SB

Keep.. I want you to keep something in mind. I am. Looking at it from the outside. The precious hours that you're referring to or precious hours from the time you found out she was missing.

CA SB CA SB CA

I know and that... The detective are looking at from when... From the... I.. ....the child was missing. ....I understand that. I understand that.

SB Okay. CA And I know back to we've lost a whole month and that's why I think the months conversation that Casey's had with me. Is gonna shed some.. is actually gonna help bring us closer. And that's what you know she made a comment to me and

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I wasn't really sure what she meant. Like I said I thought she was talking about
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the went to Tampa and they went to .. SB CA Jacksonville. .....Jacksonville. That, that was the key, it's not the key it's things that they were doing and I'm more sure of it now then ever. Um, she refers to um, the week of the 14th I'm gonna tell you where Casey said that they were at. The 14 th Casey said they were crashing at Zanny's apartment that night the 14 th . That's why they didn't come home they were crashing at Zanny's. I have not yet to find out from Ricardo or Amy if Caylee and those guys were at that apartment. I'm still not sure certain, exactly what day Tony took her in. I'm not sure. Um, but she said Caylee was at Zanny's apartment and I think that's the key. Okay. Maybe not Casey and her, that Caylee was at Zanny's apartment. SB CA Amy told you this? No Casey... I'm.. I'm trying to focus on now what Casey had told me in our conversations over the last month where they were at. 'Cause she wanted me to focus. And then I'll make the references to where I think this needs to go as far as what said. When she was talking to me in a conversation. She was telling me that Caylee was with... SB CA Zanny. ....different people. Zanny and her roommate through this whole... and that when the roommate came into it I'm thinking, oh my God are we talking about Ricardo? Are we talking about Amy? But I think it's the pair of them there's something between this all of this makes sense. (sigh) I don't want you to think I'm nuts. SB I don't think you're nuts. I think you have a lot going through your mind.

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CA

I have a lot going through my mind and I wish I had more time to process it. I'm trying to process is as I, as it makes sense to me. Casey told me the 14 th that she had a lot of work to do. That it was urn, better for Caylee to urn, and her to stay at Zanny's. So, whether or not Casey was at Zanny's she was telling me in that conversation that Caylee was at Zanny's or the baby sitter's that night on the 14th . She also told me that the next night...

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SB CA SB

You took that to mean Ricardo's? Well, now I am not at that point. I was thinking a Zaneida Fernandez Gonzalez. Okay. But now I'm not sure if Zaneida Fernandez Gonzalez is Zanny. You know what I'm saying?

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SB CA

Right. In the real sense of that actual name. I think Zanny is the reference to the baby sitter. Okay. Urn, she told me on Wednesday, which would've been the 15 th , of my... no Wednesday would've been the 16 th . I don't have a calendar in front of me. But they went to two nights that the crashed at Zanny's since Zanny was watching Caylee. Then on Wednesday they had, they were staying at Hard Rock. And I'm not sure what the Hard Rack... Rock Hotel has to do with anything. I'm not.. I haven't figured that out yet. But I'm not sure if that's... she's telling me urn, the rock bank thing or whatever I'm not sure if that's part of it or not. But there was a reference to Hard Rock Hotel. From...

SB CA sg CA

On the 16th . Yeah, which was... And she said it was she and Caylee? Yes. And she also said the baby sitters.

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All of 'em were together? All of 'em were together. Urn... Did you ever ask her how she was paying the baby sitter? She told me a lot of times that, in fact you know I still was under the impression Casey was working and has her... had her own money. Casey didn't have to pay rent, didn't have to do whatever you know. Urn, car was paid for and that kind of thing.

CA SB CA

SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) We.. the car insurance was rolled in with ours. So, that was not ever an issue with money. So, I never really asked those things. I mean I really didn't I thought she was saving money and doing things like that. You know once in awhile she asked me if I.. if she could have some money here and there. Um, and there was some times that you know she had taken some money, which I confronted her on. But usually if Casey.. if I caught her in a lie, I can look her in the eye and I can tell she was lying.

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SB

Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA You know when I have a chance to look my daughter in the eye and actually talk to her, I usually can get a straight answer. And that's urn, she's not a very.. SB CA Looking back now knowing that she didn't have any money. Well, again I can't speculate. She a lot of times said Zanny didn't need money that her father urn, had been giving her money. He father bought her a new car. And we're gonna get to this car thing to it's a very important thing. That she was doing it because she loved Caylee and she loved to baby sit Caylee. And urn, I don't know. I... SB Okay.

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CA

... again I can't speculate. But anyway when they went to Hard Rock from Zanny's apartment it was urn, Casey and the person Juliet Lewis, who was a coworker of Casey's. Juliet Lewis has a child name Annabel, whose suppose to be a year older then Caylee. Zanny and her roommate were suppose to be watching the two girls.

SM CA

I'm not... let me interrupt real quick. Do.. do you... have you ever met Juliet? Huh-ah. (Negative)

SM Okay because when she says she's a co-worker... CA (Cough) SM CA SM CA SM CA ... we know that's not true. But we want... Although... ...to figure out where, where... That is true though. ...where they are coming from. That is true Juliet... one of Casey's friends urn, that used to work with her, Heather came to Lee. Urn, a week or so ago and um, said that there's a person um, that used to work at Universal. Not Universal, again Casey didn't work for Universal. SB CA Right. She sub-contracted through, that was an IT person just like this Jeffrey Hopkins that had a son okay. Urn, that was introduced them two and they.. she knew the name Juliet Lewis and she knew the name urn, Jeff okay. So, there is some truth to that part. SB Okay.

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Urn, anyway Zanny and her roommate were help.. were at the, at the Hard Rock. Well Casey and this Juliet were... This is what Casey's story was.

SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And obviously I know it's a lie because Casey wasn't there. You know because she was looking for Caylee or whatever she was doing, she wasn't there. Um, maybe.. maybe we could look at Hard Rock urn, register in the Hotel and see if there's anybody... Amy's been registered there. Ricardo, my daughter or whoever. Urn, I have not spoken with the Orange County Sheriff's so I know no one's looked at Hard Rock yet. `Cause I didn't...

SB

Okay. ...two and two together. But anyway Casey and Juliet were supposed to be in meetings all day and Zanny and the urn, her roommate. And I was under the assumption that the name was Jennifer, but the person that had a tie with urn, Universal was able to get the kids into Universal and take them to you know different things. And they were...

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SB A

Right. ... hanging out in the parks during the day. And Casey and Juliet were checking on the girls periodically. They moved the conference from there to Tampa,

Busch Gardens. Casey said that they were working on urn, some um, of the event planning between Universal tie and with Universal things and Busch Garden things and Sea World things. So, they went over that weekend, which was what the 18 th 19th and 20th . The 18th I think was a Friday if I'm... if I can remember correctly. The 16 th was a Wednesday then the 18 th would've been a Friday. Went over to Busch Gardens. I'm not sure what that has to do with Busch Gardens per say. But on their way home from Busch Gardens Casey said

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ista

that she and Juliet with the two girls in the white Pontiac, Casey's car, was
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following Zanny and her roommate. And they got into an accident in Zanny's car got totaled. Well, I know... SB CA SB CA Who had Caylee at that point? Casey and Caylee and Juliet Annabel.. Were in her car. ....were in Casey's car. And they did not get in an accident. But Casey said that Zanny had got into an accident and totaled the car. Now I'm not sure if the clue was, the car was totaled and someone got a new car. Talking to Amy from the airport, Amy told me and again I wasn't thinking about Zanny any connection with Amy told me she just gotten a new car. That urn, her dad had bought her a new car. She had to go up to Jacksonville to get... SB CA SB CA Amy had just got a new car? Yes and she... Okay. ....had to go to Jacksonville. Casey was suppose to take her to Jacksonville to pick up the car. And Casey bailed on her one day and wouldn't take her. So, she had to call someone else I.. and to take her. And I think she actually had to rent a car to get herself to Jacksonville to pick up her new car that her father had bought her. This is key because Casey had told me that when Zanny had totaled her car in the accident that her father had bought her a new car. And she told us that it was Ford Focus a 2008, silver Ford Focus. I don't know what Amy drives I have no idea. I never say Amy's car. But I think it's very pertinent if Casey is indeed giving the clues to what's going on. And she's trying to lead us to these people so that we can find and realize who it is so that we can watch 'em and

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maybe catch 'em or we're gonna catch 'em off guard and get Casey home... Caylee home safely to us. It's all kind of makes sense. You see where I'm going with this? Casey said that Zanny's car had totaled and that her father had bought her a car. Amy in her own words told me that her car had been totaled. The dates I don't know if they match up and it could've just been something that Casey was throwing out there. It could've happened a month ago, but Casey was telling me... SB CA SB CA It happened on the ... ....Zanny's... ....way back from Tampa? Zanny's car had been totaled mom and her father.. a few days later she said her dad had you know was buying her a new car. 'Cause her dad had money and said that you know he would take care of it and he'd get her a new car. So, I think that's kind of something. And I didn't even put that connection together like I said until last night, with the car accident and the new car thing and who gave it. Amy said her dad got her a new car. The other connection was that Amy herself told me that Casey was taking.. suppose to take her to Jacksonville and pick up the car. That's the Jacksonville connection. I mean it makes sense, I didn't

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think about that before. So, she's painting a picture trying to put pieces together for us. And I think this is probably makes more sense to me then anything, and
I.., I

know I'm reaching out and wanting any leads that can get us to her. But it

just the more I talk about this the more it just makes sense. SB You.. you're putting together a story for us, which is good based on what you've been told by Casey. CA It may be a whole crap of...

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SB CA SB

But why... ....lies I don't know that. No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is, it.. it.. what.. what I put it in

perspective I try and out it into perspective with, she's told you that Caylee's in danger. Nothing that you've said so far. CA Not until... Show Caylee being in danger. Right, not yet. We're not ... Okay. the way there yet. Okay.

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SB 10 CA
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SB CA SB CA SB CA

And I'm still listening then. I know you are. I know,... And I'll listen all day long. ....I know you are I... (sigh) There's ... Again I never... And I want you to understand... ...thought.. there's no pressure Cindy. I.. I know and I never... I never when first meet Amy and until last... or this morning never even thought suspect. Never even thought suspect. But now looking back over things it just doesn't add up some of the thing that are going on.

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CA

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SB
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Let me ask you a real quick... In the end are you gonna say that she's Zanny? I'm not sure, but I'm getting close to that... Okay. ... conclusion. Right. I'm getting close to the conclusion that, that could be Zanny. Okay. I haven't said it yet, I don't know and I don't want to falsely accuse anybody of anything. But all I'm saying is it's a big possibility that that could be Zanny. Okay. And I didn't even put the last name in until when you said that. So, I hadn't even thought about that. When you said the.. where you could get thinny ah, the....

CA SB CA SB CA SB CA

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SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) I didn't even pronounce her name that way so.. I mean you thought of something that I didn't even think of. And again I'm not trying to.. to paint it that way. But I mean think about how the media's painting it. Casey's way we have to look at another possibility out there. Because it Caylee's alive we got to find her. And that's my focus and I know that's what you guys want to do as well. Where am I at now? Um...

SB CA

New car. New car. Again don't know the make of Jen... of hers. And Casey may have picked any random car. I'm not sure if that's the clue or not. That the 2008 silver, Ford Focus is actually what she's driving or someone else is driving. I don't know if the actual car or the fact that it was the car accident. And her father was the one, is actually the clue that Casey's trying to give to us. Okay.

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SB CA

(cough) I'm sorry. Alright, urn, Amy again does say that she works at Universal Studios so that is truth about if she is Zanny that there's that Universal connection. Um, the other thing is, Casey describes Zanny's roommate. And I don't know if she's just giving me clues out there about Zanny or her roommate. As a tall, blonde person. Amy's tall. I mean I'm not that tall, I'm 5'-4", but she's taller then me. She's at least 5'-7".

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SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And Casey's stated that Zanny's 5'-6" to 5'-7", only with dark hair. So, you know but again she... she... if.. it she's trying to appease this person in saying, I'm not gonna rat you out. And giving enough throwing off. She's still doing what this person wants her to do, is lay low, chill out, you're learning your lesson. And I'll get to all this in a minute. Urn, so again the blonde I think has.. it might be a clue as well.

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SB CA

Okay. I don't know what Jennifer has to do with the name Jennifer. I don't know if there's any truth to that. I don't know if there's.. if Amy has a sister Jennifer. Again I don't know that much about Amy. Urn, I'd like to know a hell.. heck of a lot more about Amy now.

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SB CA SB CA

Do you know if she's still around? I.. I believe so. When did you last talk to her? I haven't talked to Amy since that night that she took me to urn, Tony's apartment. And it's kind of odd because all of Casey's friends have been reaching out in some way. Even people that Casey had a falling out with are

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coming in for the rescue or the search and find Caylee. You know handing out fliers doing whatever. I find it very strange that these two haven't volunteered for anything and all of Casey's other friends have volunteered to at least send out fliers, do different things. And they haven't and that's kind of odd. Because... this one told me how much she loves this child. And I'm thinking well then why aren't you coming out asking to handout fliers and stuff? I'm not.. I.. I.. I.. you know I didn't even think about that until just in the last few hours. Why isn't Amy asking and calling what's the status of Caylee and how are you guys doing? You know I talk to her the next morning after Casey had been um, arrested. 'Cause I apologized to Amy. I said, I'm so sorry for you know any part that you had that Ca... you know that Caylee.. Casey may have lied to you, betrayed you or anything like that I'm very, very sorry. You know and Amy said, don't worry about it. You know she said, I still believe in Casey is what she was telling me. Well... SB CA But you apologized to her you said what to her? (Inaudible)... I told her I'm sorry for any inconvenience or anything to pull her in. I mean she was obviously the one that took me there so I knew the police was questioning her. I knew that you know.. SB CA SB CA SB CA Okay I see what you... ... all that. So, that's what I was apology .. apologizing to. For.. for involving her... involving her into... ....the whole situation. ..... the whole in this situation. At that time I mean I truly didn't want to involve anybody into it. And I truly didn't know what involvement I was going to have

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with anybody. All I knew was I wanted to locate Casey so I can you know make sure her and Caylee were.. SB CA They were alright. ....safe. That's the one that's gonna go off all day I don't care. Um, Amy said that Casey had told her. And I don't know if Amy told her.. knew that Casey's car was in the shop. Well obviously the week that Casey told me the car was in the shop was actually when the car, she didn't know where the car was. Casey told me that while she was in Jacksonville, which she never was in Jacksonville I know that now. That her friend she was staying with had taken her car to get it fixed. Because my husband and I were kind of worried because we knew her oil needed to be changed and we knew her brakes needed to be looked at. Because it'd been a while and you know you need.. we knew how old the car was and we said it's time to have all of that checked. SB CA Right. You need a full inspection blah.. blah.. blah. And we told her I said, we really don't want you driving all over God's creation. Tampa was bad enough we don't want you driving you know all over the place. You know until you get the car checked out. Well, Casey had told me that following week that she'd been in Jacksonville for the whole week staying with friends. Which I again know that that's not true. But I think the Jacksonville connection could be the fact that... SB Somebody had made mention to her that she had to go to Jacksonville and she was just using that as an excuse? CA SB Could be using it as an excuse. Okay.

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But the other part of it is, the weekend that we found out now that the car was at AMSCOT, was the weekend that she said she didn't even know where the car had been taken. And she told me she goes, I'm not sure... and she was referring that she was with Jeff in Jacksonville. Jeff was a friend that had actually introduced her to Zanny. I'm not sure if Ricardo introduced Amy to Casey or not. It'd be interesting to find out who introduced. Because he could be... Jeff you know as far as reference to. Because she's stating that the person that

interviews.. introduced her to um, her baby sitter, Zanny was this Jeff person. But she could be referring... Jeff could be a reference to the current boyfriend. And I'm gonna tell you why I say that. Jut like Zanny could be in reference to the baby sitter. A couple years ago she did um, actually she was speaking to Jeff all the time. I heard her talking to this Jeff person all the time with Zachary. I saw her phone at one time she had, she has a phone that has a photo on it. Or you can have your photo just like I have Caylee's picture on my phone. SB CA Right. She showed me Jeff and Zach's picture. Just like she described him prior to and she had his number in her phone. This was two years ago listed as boyfriend. So, Jeff could be a generic name for boyfriend is what I'm thinking right now as a clue. Okay so... SB Jeff in Jacksonville introduced her to....

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CA Yes. SB CA ....Amy? Yes. Well, this.. the person that she was seeing in Jacksonville, Jeff. You know Jeff is... SB Whoever Jeff is?

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CA SB CA SB CA SB CA

Yes. I'll put quotes around Jeff. Yeah. We don't know who he is. Right, exactly. Okay. I mean his name's suppose to be Jeffrey Hopkins, but I know it's confusing to you. But...

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SB

That's alright. ...anyway Jeff had taken um, her car so what she said that he had taken her car to one of his guys to get it looked at, get it fixed, get the brakes done.

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SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Well, that was the same day that Casey said she didn't know where her car was. She said she came back. She was with um, um, Jeff's mom and Caylee for the day. They were um, you know shopping and, and um, Jeff's sister. And when she came back Jeff had already taken Casey's care to get it fixed. And she said they were gonna check on it the next day. Well, this was Saturday and then Sunday she said that the car needed something you know done to it and it was gonna take a couple days to get it fixed. And...

SB CA SB CA

What time frame are we in as far... We're talking... .... as dates? ... um, the 27th , 28th of June. And that's about when the car was.. Casey didn't know where the car was. So, that was her clue that I think what she was saying she didn't know where the car was at. And then it was going to be a few days.. I

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think she was probably trying to look for the car. It doesn't make sense to me why Casey would drive knowingly and run out of gas. Run out of gas and leave her car at that AMSCOT, which is a very visible location. I don't know if you're familiar ... SB CA SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ...with.. It's a, it's big intersection Goldenrod and Colonial. Okay. I actually pass that every morning going to work. Where it's at there's a continuous right hand turning lane where you have to kind of merge with traffic. And then there's a traffic light and then there's one that turns left. I'm always in this one. Waiting at the light, I never get to go through it. And as I'm approaching you have to be real careful because all of a sudden the lane the merge, they merge in or proceed out. 'Cause people turn out of the urn, Wendy's there and the Sam's Club there. SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) So, I'm always looking at that intersection and AMSCOT'S been known to have urn, police there for a radar in the mornings or whatever. I'm not looking

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because I'm worried about that. But I'm just you know more looking, but I've seen people in that AMSCOT. So, I would've seen that white car there come Monday morning going to work. If it would've still been there and not been towed. So, it's kind of stupid for her to leave it in a spot where I would see that car if she's the one that drove it there. The other thing is, why would you run out of gas and not have someone just buy you a gallon of gas or two of gas until you can get to a gas station and fill up. It doesn't make sense. So, I'm not sure why she would abandon the car. Especially if the car had all this evidence that's

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gonna link her to Caylee's death in it. She's not stupid by any means. She's a smart girl. She's not smart enough to plot... SB CA SB I can tell you a little bit of what about how they think. I under... I know how they think. They've told me how they think. Well, I know I'm just trying to give you a little bit of perspective by.. by bringing somebody around to put gas in it. You're bringing, you're inviting people into something. So, the choices are, leave it come back later or bring people to it.. CA SB CA Well, if she had... And that's if, that's it that's what had happened and I'm... Exactly. ... not saying that's what had happened. Exactly. I'm just saying that's... But she had access to a car in Amy's own words. Whether that's true or no I'm not sure I never collaborated... collaborate... SB Corroborated. Corroborated, I'm sorry. That's alright. That urn, with anybody. But that's what Amy said. So, if she had access to a car she wouldn't had to involve anybody. And from my understanding she also had access to Tony's jeep. So, she didn't have to involve anybody she could've gone bought a gas can, got some gas and taken it to that car and... SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) .. you know... And driven off.

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SB

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CA

....and driven off.

So, I mean it's kind of stupid for her to leave that car there.

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Leave it for three days, not come back to it before it got towed and then she really didn't know where it was at. Because ... SB CA And what has she told you about how the car ended up there? I never talked to her about it. Never had an opportunity. Because again by the time I picked her up my focus was where's Caylee. I didn't care about the car. SB CA Right. Yeah absolutely. The car was not even an issue. And so I never had, I never had had a one on one about the car why it was there and blah.. blah.. blah. I don't know and I'm not gonna speculate on that. But it just doesn't make sense to me that that car had evidence to bring her to where she is now. Why would she leave it there in broad daylight for her mom or dad to see it. Or for it not to go back if you knew where it was. So, and they even said that it sat there for three days before it was towed. So, she had ample opportunity to reach out to somebody. And the other thing was when they towed it. No one's ever opened up the trunk of that car. The tow company didn't have the keys to the car. When we got on sight the guy says, listen before you come to the car.. my... they warned my husband, it stinks. And it's been progressively smelling worse. He said you know it's been progressively smelling worse since it's been here. Urn, he said it didn't smell great when they picked it up. But it certainly was, you didn't even., and George said, you didn't even have to get too close to it. Well, the guy from the tow company was there with my husband because you can't just get into the car and drive away. sg Right.

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CA

So, when they opened the trunk of the car there was um, a collapsible bin, I think a couple of hangers, a pair of Casey's.. I think a pair of her pants back there in the bin. And then this bag that my husband saw, which I never saw. And in the bag he said there was like one or two pieces of pizza and a ripped up box, stuffing in just a little bag, plastic bag. And that thing was just full of maggots and you know it was terrible so they walked it right to the dumpster. Didn't even think anything about it.

SB CA

George and the employee of the tow... Yes. So, okay. Yes. So... Does he recall what that employees name was that helped him check out? I don't know but... (Inaudible)... .... We.. he took the police officers back and they retrieved the bag out of the dumpster. He took 'em right back the very next day and they retrieved the bag, they have the bag and everything there. So, the police have the bag.

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SB CA sE3 CA

SB CA SB CA

Okay did the bag have.. I don't know... ... the maggots and stuff in it? Yeah. I don't know if it still had the maggots in when they picked it up. But they have the bag. So, I don't know.. there should be clues to the pizza parlor in it because George said, he didn't you know he wasn't gonna go through that bag `cause it was nasty.

SB

Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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CA

Um, at that time he just knew it was garbage and he threw it.. didn't even think anything of it. Just and he even got back in the car and said, that car smells like you know something had died in it. And you know he's been a homicide detective.

SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) He's smelled dead bodies. I've smelled dead bodies being a nurse. I've been to the morgue before I've smelled dead tissue it smells bad. Sutomotis is one of he worse smells if you've ever know... if you know what a sutomotis infection is. We took off a dressing one time a patient's room and we had this huge clinic. It went from the vent system from that patient's room clear over two floors later to the other vents, that's how strong that smell of you know stuff..

SB CA

Right. ....can follow. And that was the infection it wasn't you know urn, it's just a, a sense of the sutomotis.

SB CA

Right. It's just a unique smell. Urn, I've never smelled pizza nineteen days, and I don't know of anybody that says they've smelled pizza nineteen days in a car that sat out in a hot... Yes garbage is different then that, but someone needs to... I've been saying just do it. Put it in pick a car off of some you know abandoned lot or the wrecker center and put it in the Florida hot sun, which we've had what 90 to a 100 degree temperature. And that week that it was sitting out we had, we had a 100 degree temperature and multiply that close up it's probably two plus. For nineteen days...

SB

Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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CA

and then see if it doesn't smell a bad as a dead body in that car. And they all think we're nuts. It's pizza, garbage. Well you know garbage is taken from one day to the next...

SB CA SB CA

What.. what was,,, ....a little bit different. ... your initial thought when you smelled it? Something was really rank in that car. Didn't know what it was. And you know I'll clarify my statements and I said that to the officers. I made up the 911 call, didn't know what the hell to say. Made up the second 911 call, didn't know what to say. And when Casey back and told me or actually had told Lee that Caylee had been kidnapped. They, the second 911 call said that the Sheriff would be there when they had a chance. Well, it had already been forty-five minutes from that first call to eh... I mean the second call to the third call. I just said whatever it was, get 'em out of here now because now I realize my granddaughter is missing and we actually have something to go on and not me just you know... Can't get from daughter where Caylee's at. Cause she had maintained that Caylee was the sitter. She maintained that Caylee was the sitter the entire time. And she also made a statement to me. She told me, mom.. and I didn't understand what she meant by this. She had told me that the hour was not right because it was about 7:30, 8 o'clock. And that's typically when Caylee's getting ready to go to bed. That why do we want to interrupt, I'll take her to you tomorrow. I don't think Casey had ever intentions of taking me tomorrow. But she made the comment after I kept pushing. And even Lee 'cause my son by the time I gotten Casey back home. When I realized that I wasn't gonna get any help sitting in the parking lot at the Annex at the or the Orlando Police Department.

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SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) I took her home and just as I was coming around to my house. My son had called me and said hey, dad said that um, there's something going on. All my husband had done was called him and said, you might want to touch base with mom. He wasn't making reference about the car. Didn't know about Caylee or anything else at that point. So, he was actually home because, where are you at and I said, well I'll be there in two minutes, less then two minutes I'll be home. So, when I got to the house Lee was there and never left Lee's sight. That's why I know she didn't go back out and take that lanyard and all that other stuff. But she stated something and I haven't had a chance to talk with Lee about all this stuff. She made a comment to Lee when he said, why are you gonna allow mom to get the police involved in this? If you can take mom and I to Caylee

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tomorrow. Let's just do it tonight, why do we want to get eh police involved. And Casey said, and I'm not sure how she said it, but she said, I don't want to disrupt her life. Because from here on out Caylee's life will never be same. And I never understood what she meant by that. And I didn't ask her that 'cause I wasn't sure. I said, well you know.. SB CA SB CA She knew something at that point. She knew something. Well Casey... Right. ....did know something. And she had known something at that point. So, making that statement, and that was a half hour before she finally told Lee that. Because he kept talking to her and saying, listen, what are you gonna say when the police come? And she said, I can't do this anymore whatever. She said to Lee. You have to get those facts from Lee I wasn't in the room.

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Okay, And she finally said that I haven't been able to tell mom where Caylee's at. Because I don't know where Caylee's at. And she started breaking down and that's when she broke down and she was crying. And I happened to have come in. 'Cause I was actually pacing out in the garage 'cause I opened up the garage door to kind of see. Because I just didn't know what to say to Casey anymore. And I was... the red flags were going up all over because I couldn't understand why she couldn't take me. 'Cause I told her I said, I don't care if I wake her up or not. I want to see her I haven't seen her in a month. And at that point I had that gut feeling something wasn't right. Didn't know what it was. Um, and when I walked into the house I could hear her telling him that Caylee had been kidnapped. I immediately ran to Casey's room and I said, what the hell do you mean? What are you talking about and I started yelling at her. And I said, why didn't you tell me? Why didn't you tell the police and all that? And.. typical reaction like everybody else says, what are you doing? And at that time is when I realized that the police had been to the house. So, I went out there um, you know... No actually at that time I made third phone call. I made the third phone call and said...

CA

SB CA SB CA SB CA

Remind me which one the third one, because I.. I don't know... The first one was... ...what they were. ....driving up to.. I actually told her when we were driving around. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) You know after leaving Amy's house. I'm gonna drive... I'm gonna take you to the police department maybe they can talk some sense into you and tell me

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where Caylee's at. She said, mom go ahead. She goes, go ahead I can't tell you know, I'm not taking you to see Caylee tonight I can't take you.. she said I can't take you to Caylee tonight. And I couldn't understand why. So, I the closest police department that I knew of is on Pershing Road. SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Between Goldenrod and 436. That's the closest, I pass it all the time if I go to Wal-Mart or whatever. I never knew that the police department was open till 5. I thought they were open all day. I'm nave I've never had to go to the police department.

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SB CA

Right. So, I drove in the parking lot and I saw they closed at 5 so I sat there. I said, Casey, I said come on tell me what's going on. And she says, mom I can't. And I said, well someone's gonna help me. So, I dialed the 911 call and they asked me you know what it was regarding. I didn't know what to tell 'em, my daughter won't take me to see my granddaughter, is that a crime? So, I said, well my car was stolen. Well, to me if my car wasn't where it was suppose to be. Then technically.. I didn't want to make a false report, but I wanted to talk to an officer and I didn't know what to say.

SB CA

Yeah. I didn't know what the facts were. So, it just whatever I could think of I said. And she says, well are you Orange County or are you Orlando Police? And that was like listen there's no point in going through all this you know. So, I told her I would just go back to my house and call 'ern. And that's what we did, but I didn't call right away. Lee was there, didn't realize Lee was gonna be there. We tried for forty-five minutes to get her to tell us and she was telling us that she couldn't

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take us or that would upset Caylee's life and blah.. blah.. blah. Did not realize what that meant. So, I made that, I finally said, that's enough I'm not dealing with this anymore. I told Lee, I'm calling because there's something wrong. There is something wrong. And so I called the second 911 call was the first one that they actually showed on TV. And I said, hey wait a minute there's a... there's actually three, the first one you're not showing. So, it was referenced as the first one, which is actually the second. SB CA Okay. So, the second one it... I was still not as frantic as the first.. the first one I was pretty calm. The second one I'm not as calm, but I'm not frantic like the third one. Because I'm still kind.. trying to figure out how do I get the sheriff's department out here? So, I told 'ern, you know my car's been stolen, possibly money whatever I didn't know, I wanted them to come out. While I was waiting it was like I said, almost forty minutes had gone by. Lee still in there talking to his sister and I'm staying out of it because I knew I was just making the situation worse. Because all I wanted.. I wanted to go in there and shake her. I wanted to go in there and physically shake her and say, tell me. But I'm not gonna do physical harm to my daughter. Because I didn't know if I could stop shaking her. You know what I'm saying? You get so angry with someone.. SB CA Yeah. ....that can't tell you what you want to know. That you could you know might want to do that. SB But you know that she could tell what you want to know, she's not telling you what you want to know.

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CA

Well, I didn't know at that point.

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Right. I didn't know and I'm not a violent person. And I didn't want to go and start shaking her and doing that. I didn't I couldn't do that. So, I thought it was better for me to go away.

CA

SB

Is there a volatility between the two you when it comes to things that you're not gonna like and that she does?

CA

No. Urn, we.. we talk about things. I wasn't gonna shake her. That's not my style I don't physically you know I don't strike my children.

SB

No, I'm not implying.. And Casey doesn't... ..that just.. ..no, no, no, no, no, what I'm saying. Yeah. Even though you.. you say you're gonna wring someone's neck or you're gonna shake the shit out of 'em. I mean that's an expression, I'm gonna shake the shit out of you.

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CA SB CA

SB CA

Yeah. You're not gonna kill 'em.. I'm gonna kill you if you don't tell me. Those are expressions, those are not...

SB CA

Right. ....things that you act upon. As angry as I was I know you don't start doing something because you're anger could get the best of you. I'm not like.. gonna do that. That's not me I'm not gonna do that. So, again I walked away that's my style. I walked away and let Lee continue to talk. But again it was almost forty minutes. So, as I came into this is the third phone call now. When I came back

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into the house and I heard her telling Lee and she was starting to cry. I could tell in her voice I knew something was wrong. And that's when I ran into her room. And then I.. I said, I've got to call the police and they got to get here now. And that's when I called and I, and I said whatever I said. My.. my God you know we found her today, we found her after a month. And what I meant by that, Casey wasn't missing in my eyes, but she wasn't where she said she was for a month. So, my daughter wasn't missing, but now Caylee was missing for a month. By what Casey had said. And I said I found her car. I mean I was trying plead with them, there's a reason now why now is an urgent thing. The car had something to do with Caylee not being... SB CA Around. ...here. And that's why I said, and "the car smelled like a damn dead body" or whatever I said on there because it smell bad you know. Did I.... SB CA SB CA SB CA And that's your initial reaction? That's my initial ... And whether you know... ...reaction. ....not. Right and again that's was my husband's initial reaction as well. Before he opened the car door.. I mean the.. the trunk. SB CA SB CA The trunk. The trunk.. Right. The trunk, his initial reaction is, "I don't know if I'm gonna find Casey in there. I don't if I'm gonna find Caylee in there or what?" He didn't know or whatever, No

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one knew, but again when you actually see what's in there and think about it. I
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mean knowing now. I still believe that Caylee's body, and I.. I find it very hard to believe that Caylee.. Casey had an opportunity to put Caylee in there for a short period of time to get the car stench that bad and take her somewhere else. You know what I'm saying? SB CA Right. The time frame I just don't... I.. it.. it doesn't make sense to me common sense doesn't tell me that she would park that car there if there was evidence. If it was me I would run that car into a river or somewhere off a cliff somewhere or whatever or... SB Yeah. CA ... in another county. Or do something and not leave it in plain sight for my mom
to

find or evidence. I mean it just doesn't make sense. So, that's why common

sense tells me that Caylee's not, has not been in that car as a cadaver okay. She's been in that car lots of times. That car has gone through being my husband's car, my son's car, my daughter's car. We've all driven that car. And that car in the beginning had everybody's sweaty clothes in there from gym bags and stuff. 'Cause my son played basketball you know... SB CA Right. ... in high school. That was the car that was given to him when he was a junior and his senior year in high school. So, I mean that car's been through... I mean it's been in our family for some time. SB CA Right. So, and my husband and I know every inch of that car and every stain in there. And those stains that we saw when we brought the car home. We didn't see any

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new stains. And of course we don't have lights and lumination and all that other stuff. But there was nothing that we saw in that car. And I told the police the only things I'd done is taken the stuff out of the back, put it in the garage just to let it air out. And I had sprayed from some fabreeze and I told 'em that up front. Just to see if it could get the smell of it out. And it did smell better as it aired out But it still had a bad stench really bad stench that everybody that came up that night into the home. No one was really particularly caring about the car. I mean it was white.. it was in our garage. I put it in the garage for a reason. Because we didn't want leave it outside. Plus I didn't want to leave it all closed up. So, I had the garage door down with all the doors open. And when we got home my garage for three days smelled like the car. SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) So, it doesn't take much to absorb you know smells. And I mean all that smell is gone now, thank God. But for a couple of days it still smelled like that. And we asked the sheriff's that night if we could take it out of the garage and leave it out on the driveway and that's what they did. And they left it there for 48 or you know 24, 48 hours until they picked it up. Okay, we kind off a little bit of track. SB SM That's alright. That's alright. Excuse me I'll be right back. (Agent. Steve McElyea left room)

SB Yeah. CA But the point of that conversation was that, Casey was alluding to she didn't know where the car was. And it kind of makes sense if she knew where the car was. You wouldn't leave a car especially that was in good condition. That car runs. SB Yeah.

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CA Great shape I mean.


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SB CA

I've seen it. Yeah it's a nice looking car.

SB Yeah. CA And um, has a lot of life in it. And we had just you know put some money into tires and stuff and there's no way that we were gonna you know get rid of the car. SB CA Right. And it doesn't make sense to me that she would... not want to go back and pick up the car. And eventually at some point. SB CA SB CA Keep in mind, there's a lot of things that could happen. I understand. That don't make sense. I know. I know it doesn't make sense. But again she's.. at some point she's gonna come home. At some point she's gonna have to come with or without the car. Or at some point she knew she was gonna have to come with or without Caylee. So, if she had an opportunity to pick up the car I would've thought that she would've have. Or done everything she could've... SB CA SB CA Right. ...to take good care of that car. But ... That's because that's you and I think. Yes. Well and again, if you're looking at.. if you're trying to look at something objectively. SB The one thing you can't do, I'll tell you this. Is you can't apply your logic to other people. CA Right. Exactly. But again..

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SB CA

Especially when things have happened. But again to, she's not on trial and people out there speculating already that Caylee is a dead child and this...

SB CA

Right. ... is a homicide investigation. And nothing has been come out, come forward. At least not to us to say otherwise. And I don't know. I.. I don't know I.. there's just strong things that I at least we need to follow up. I.. I just think that there's, there's a lot of things that doesn't make sense.

SB

Forensically there's stuff that, that can give us some answers. But that takes time.

CA SB CA SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And in the meantime we have to keep working. Right. We have to keep looking. Because if we stop looking until there's... those things come back and they find out that, oh well there's really nothing concrete here. We're losing weeks and weeks of looking for Caylee.

SB

Right and.. and...

CA And everyday... SB CA SB CA ...and I want.... ...and every hour.. I want you... ....and every minute.

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SB

I want you to understand something. From what I saw today and what I've seen in the last.. since you called me just looking into it. I don't see evidence of people not doing what they should be doing to be honest with you.

CA SB CA SB

That's good that makes me feel good. It's .. It makes me feel good. It.. it.. it's.. it's a very difficult investigation. Because the most important times of a missing child in the first 72 hours. And the first 72 hours were gone.

CA

I know. They were absolutely gone. I know. They're irretrievable we can't go back. I know. We can look back and say, I wish, I wish, I wish, but ... I know. ... the fact of the matter of is that that time's not here anymore. I know. Urn, finding out and listening to what I've listened to today and listening to you. Ah, there's some very interesting facts that exist. There's some very interesting statements that have been made. Not by you, but by.. by your daughter and some other people. And I want, what I want from you, which is provably one of the hardest things in the world for mom in this situation to go through. Is a little bit of objectivity.

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CA SB

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) It's difficult, it is so hard...

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I understand that. ...Cindy that it's... Well.. I.. and I know it is. ....as.. you can ask Sergeant Allen, I put that all out there. If she did what do you think? I mean I went with even, what if she accidentally drowned where Caylee.. some.. she forgot to take the ladder off...

SB CA SB CA

SB CA

Right. ....the pool. Caylee knows how to open the door went outside Casey came out and found her in the pool. He said no I think that's the case blah.. blah.. blah.. blah. I mean I put things out there scenarios what if, what it, what it.

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SB

And.. and you have to, what you haven't seen and what you.. what you haven't run into is, when you're a detective and a grandmother who's upset and visibly worried. Throw something out like your initial reaction is automatically no, no, no, I don't think that's what happened. Because we don't know. And we don't want.. we don't want you thinking the worst.

CA SB CA

Well... that.. that.. I mean that.. ...the bottom line is to, Caylee didn't murder Casey. I mean Casey didn't murder Caylee.

SB CA SB CA SB

Right. I mean she did not murder that child. I.. can I, can I say something to you that you're not gonna wanna hear? (No verbal response.) We don't know what happened to Caylee period. We don't know.

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But I mean... I'm not saying she's did. I'm not saying she didn't. But as a mother you have to say that and I completely understand I've got two daughters of my own. completely understand it. But from the law enforcement side of it and from the investigation side of it. Looking into a missing child, we have no idea right now what happened to Caylee.

SB

CA SB A

(No verbal response.) We don't, we looking for Caylee. Right. Well as long as people are actively looking for Caylee. They are. Then I can rest assured at night that what I got to do is just keep her face out there.

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SB CA SB CA

It has... For people looking. ...to stay out there. And we're doing what we're doing. Um, because that's what we have to do. And...

SB CA

Right. ... I told the sheriff's department from day one, take down our house if you have to piece by piece if you think there's anyway that you can find Caylee.

SB cp, SB CA SB

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Because we want nothing more to find Caylee. I know. And um.. I'm not worried about Casey where she's at. Casey's safe. Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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I'm not physically worried about her where she's at. I'm physically, emotionally worried about where Caylee's at right now. Even if she.. her needs are being met physically they're not being met emotionally they can't be.

SB CA

Right. They can't be. No child should be without her mommy or the people that have raised her. Or her home, the things even simple little things as her stuff animals or her pets.

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SB CA

Her comfort. Her comfort. Right. That's gone.


I know. I understand. What.. what we have to do and here's.. here's the hard

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SB

part. Here's the.. here's the part that doesn't get communicated by law enforcement to families. Okay, is we have to.. there is a systematic way when we're dealing with missing, missing toddlers. That.. that we have to go by and sometimes we don't communicate it well enough to the families. When we have a toddler missing, you have to look at motive, you have to look at all these different things that cause children to become missing. Is it a sexual predator, is it, is it a kidnapping, is it money. Okay we have to start looking at what, what could've caused this. What could've led to this. And the first thing that you can't do when you have a toddler is absolutely as investigators you cannot leave the family.
CA

I know.

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SB

And I went through it with Mark Lundsford. Urn, he and I are friends now, we talk you know. But we are what we are. But the fact of the matter is that he didn't like me very much for the first two or three weeks of what was going on.

CA SB

I understand. Okay and, and when we can't get the answers that we need from the family. And I'm not talking about you because you have given 'em the answers that they need. You've.. you've gone out of your way to tell them everything you possibly know. And can come up with. The person that was with Caylee when she went missing. The last known person to have been with Caylee is Casey.

CA I know. SB And Casey has got to get over the fact that Caylee's safety maybe in danger. Caylee's safety is in danger by the fact that she's not telling us where Caylee is. CA I know. Wait.. some of the things that Casey had um, shared that will probably be public knowledge very soon. Because Lee urn, this is something that you need to get specifically from Lee because um, Lee told.. or Casey told Lee urn, what had happened. Casey said that she was at Blanchard Park with Zanny and urn, now I believe she said Zanny's sister. And I I'm not mistaken I'm not sure if her name's Stephanie or whatever. But I think Zanny's sister is blonde too so there's a blonde reference there. But Zanny when they were at the park urn, with Caylee um, and I guess her sister had some children and I don't know if this part is um, truthful or whatever. SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) But she said, Zanny, when they were getting ready to leave Zanny's sister or the person with Zanny took Caylee. And Casey said where are you guys going?

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And Zanny pushed Casey to the ground and the description of Zanny is that she's at least five six, five seven. SB CA SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Casey's only.. barely five one an a half if you really put shoes on her. (laugh) Or she stretches out. And like you know maybe ninety-seven, a hundred pounds. SB CA Okay. And this person's at least one forty is what she's says. Then she said, this person pushed her to the ground and threatened her. And told her, "listen bitch," is what she said. SB CA SB CA Right. "I'm gonna teach you a lesson." Okay. "I'm gonna teach you a lesson. " "So, you're not getting Caylee back." And again I don't know all the particulars, Lee has all that conversation from Casey. SG CA SB When, when did that .. About.. ... conversation occur?

CA This was suppose to have happened on the 14 th , the day that Casey couldn't get.. So, she's maintaining that they.. they took her. Now Casey's original statement was that she had dropped her off with the baby sitter. This is what she wanted to be public or what she wanted the detectives to know is, that she dropped the.. her.. Caylee off at the baby sitter. And that she um, when she went

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back to pick her up the sitter wasn't there. And that's when she started to.. to call. Now....
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SB CA

Call? Call the baby sitter.

SB Oh okay. CA And make phone calls. Now Lee's been looking at Casey's phone records. Lee's been looking at the phone records, he's been plugging in everybody's phone number of everybody that we know. And we been trying to fill in all the gaps. SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) They looked at Casey's phone records all up until this point too from I think from the end of May the first couple weeks of June. He said there was a.. big change in pattern. You guys will need to look at the phone records. Big change in pattern from the 14 th from about.. SB CA June 14th? June 14th , in the afternoon. And I'm not sure if it starts around 4 or something in the afternoon. But it's like frantically from phoning people. You know calling boom.. boom.. boom calling all these people. As if she was looking for something or trying to reach somebody that knew where someone was. That there was actually a change in Casey's pattern on the phone. SB CA SB Okay. That something frantic was going on. So, I think it's key... Does he have the records?

CA He has the records. SB (Inaudible)... Okay.

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Police department has the records. Okay. Police department was pulling her records up that night. Right.

SB CA SB

CA The night, Tuesday and into Wednesday looking at her phone records from day one. So, he got a copy I think from the detectives. So, that's he copy to work on. SB Okay. 'Cause he's been working with the detectives very close okay. So, urn, I think that that's pretty important that both Ricardo and her.. This writing is your? That's mine, this is Casey's. That they said that she'd planned this. That she made the reservations off of our home computer. And um, I find it hard to believe that these guys don't have their own computer. They wouldn't have done it themselves so I'm not sure why Casey was planning it I'm not.. I haven't had an opportunity to ask her yet. SB CA Amy said that Casey planned it? Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And so did Ricardo. Ricardo was actually at our home urn, last weekend it was either Saturday.. either Friday night or Saturday the kids came over. Ever since this has happened Casey's friends have wanted to come over and talk because they find it very therapeutic to talk about Casey. And, and being close to our family. And they all... SB CA So, they have come over since this all happened? Amy hasn't Ricardo did. Ricardo was invited by Annie Casey's best friend. And it was kind of.. Ricardo was the only one that didn't participate in discussion he just kind of sat there. And I thought he was just upset because he realized..

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found.. had just found out about Tony potentially being Casey's boyfriend. Which I had told him I didn't really think looking back that Tony was. SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And now looking back I think Tony had... I mean Ricardo sat there for a reason. Either.. I mean he sat there he was sweating a lot. He sat there kind of like this, very uncomfortable, very uneasy. Everybody else was laid back you know drinking water, Coke whatever. You know we had plenty of food everybody's been bringing us stuff. We have so much food in our house you know the kids were getting pizza and... sg Right. ...whatever they wanted you know to eat. And he just sat there and I realize this the first time we met him. But even some of the other kids that had come for the first time felt very relaxed in our home. I'd just met a few other people that night `cause um, it's just something that they been reaching out to everybody. Plus we kind of wanted to see where we thought Casey might be to kind of get some clues. So, but he was the only one that didn't participate in anything. So, I thought it was kind of odd like I said that Amy or he has not reached out to at least um, want to help in he search for Caylee. Just find it kind of odd. You know I just ran a check on her right quick and.. Who, her? Um, Amy. Oh okay. And her mother and father and there's no ah, 2008 Ford registered to any of 'em. Okay. But Amy does have a new car. We don't know... Like I said the car ... No.

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... make might not be the clue. But the brand new car maybe. It's not in there right now that's all she has registered to her.

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CA Okay. SM (Inaudible)...

CA Amy stayed in her own thing that Casey was suppose to take her to Jacksonville and yes she did have a car accident um, not too long ago totaled her car and her dad got her a new car. SM That may take up to 30 days for it to put it in the (Inaudible)...

CA To show up. SM CA SM CA SM CA SM Yeah so... Um... But that is her right? Yeah it looks like the same girl. Yes she says, she's 5'-7" says she was tall. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Yeah, what's her weight? Well it doesn't have that on there.

CA Okay. SB CA SB CA (laugh) Well yeah. Well Casey's says 140. They don't put that on Florida driver's license's. Oh they used to do that kind of stuff. Well weight can fluctuate anyway it doesn't matter. But your height shouldn't every change once you're grown so. Um, but again you know Ricardo did, did offer something that night though that um. 'Cause I actually asked him a couple of questions. I asked him, if he has seen

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Caylee... Casey or Caylee these last couple of weeks. Because Ricardo took a separate flight from ... SB Amy. CA ...Amy. He told me he had flown to out of state to visit his mom. And I'm not sure if that's the correlation that I'm trying to pull it or not, that I'm not sure. And what I would like to know where he went. I'm not sure if he said Massachusetts or what and who was, who was with him on the flight. Because Casey kind of stated that you know this guy that she had been seeing, Jeff before that were friends. That I'm referring to could be the boyfriend... SB CA Right. .... at that time. That Caylee was with his mother. And maybe she knew that he had taken her out of state and maybe Caylee's in the state that there with and maybe that's where she's at. I'm hoping it's not Puerto Rico. SB Okay.

CA You know what I'm saying? SB CS We'll look into that. The other thing the babysitter had been teaching Caylee Spanish. Caylee had been urn, Casey speaks a lot of Spanglish, you know she took Spanish in high school and things like that. Urn, but the babysitter Casey said had been teaching Caylee urn, Caylee some Spanish. And Caylee actually I've heard her urn, count and every couple of days she would learn five more numbers. She was up to 32 in Spanish the last time I saw her. SG Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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The little girl's rally bright. She was teaching her other things urn, and I can't remember all the phrases because I don't speak Spanish and it's not sticking out of my mind that if Casey...

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SB CA

Right. .... if Caylee would say something I would ask Casey what she was saying. But right now you know I.. it's kind of out the window on that. But I don't know if she... they were teaching her Spanish for a reason. And I'm not sure what the Puerto Rico if is has anything to do with it. But I.. it could. It's just kind of strange that they would take separate flights. This was booked in advance you'd think if you're flying out with friends and going and arriving the same day that you'd ride together. Or especially I would, I would want to ride with my friends if I was going the same time. So, you're more then welcome to have this or I'll take it..

SB CA SB CA

I can take this? Yeah. Okay. I mean like I said I haven't shared it with the Orange County Sheriffs Department `cause I didn't see any connection to it till I started thinking that these two may have some connection to it. Was telling 'em these are flights numbers of Amy's flight that Casey made. These are Casey's handwriting. This is my handwriting.

SB CA SB CA

And Casey picked her up too. Casey's picked her up too. So, on the 15th , Casey picked her up? And Amy states that she picked her up and again there's no Caylee. So, if Zanny is... I mean it might just show... and I don't know what their conversations were. I don't know and I, again I.. haven't had a chance to talk to Amy about all

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this and I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do my own investigation or anything like that. SB Urn, I certainly don't want to get involved 'cause I don't want my emotions going wild. And if I had any inkling... just like my husband was suspicious of Jesse Grund, who's Casey's ex-fianc' he's probably one of my... biggest person that I still feel has a lot that could potentially be a part of this. But until this morning I'm thinking, oh my gosh do they have a role in this and could this be you know.. SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) it.. it.. could be it. And um, I'm not gonna let any stone go unturned. But my husband said, well I'll just drive to Jesse's house and if I... I'll listen outside for Caylee. I said what would you do if you heard Caylee's voice? You're gonna break the door down? He goes, no I'd call 911. I said, no you wouldn't any father would break that door down and rush in there to try to get.. or grandfather would try to get it. So, don't tell me not, you're not going there and you're not doing that. We'll let the police you know, know 'cause I've been forthcoming with urn, Sergeant Allen on all my concerns with Jesse. I've given him

information. He's read cards and stuff that Jesse's written and Jesse has been infatuated with Caylee since Caylee's birth. And kind of overly you know ... SB CA yeah. ... overly connected. And overly tried to push way into Casey's life and I've got some many inconsistencies talking to Jesse, over the last couple weeks. That stuff hat he said just doesn't make sense. And if it was anybody close that she trusted he was probably my first thought from day one. And that someone she could fear. Actually I would be afraid of Jesse he's got a hot temper. He has connections. He could be someone that I would think would take...

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When you say he has connections to what? He was, he had a Orange County Sheriffs urn... I mean Orange.. no Orlando Police connections. He was in training he actually was in training for to be an officer. It was just mutually let go urn, mutual understanding that he quit and he had.. he was told that he had to leave. And even urn, Sergeant Allen said that he was a hot head and stuff and you know. Casey also mentioned that Jesse was applying for his urn, I don't know what you call it. Urn, concealed weapons permit.

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Permit. Florida? In Florida. She stated that the other day when we were talking about him. And it's a red flag to when we were asking... I asked not even thinking about urn, what order she was in. I said do you have anything you want me to tell any of your friends? The first person she, remember when I told you about just a few minutes ago the conversation that Steven wasn't privy to. Was that urn, I asked her is there anything, any message you want me to say to Caylee and then to Zanny and then to your friends? And the message naturally was to Zanny was to please bring Caylee back. Please you know this is a mistake and please you know just bring he back safe and sound. Instead of just.. you know you can. And to Caylee to be brave, be the brave little girl that I know you are and that mommy loves you with all her heart and will do anything to keep you safe. Urn, but I find it kind of odd now the first person that she thought of wasn't' Tony, wasn't me or anybody else or Annie her best friend was Amy. Tell Amy I'm sorry. Well if Amy is..

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She said that to you today? Yeah.. no she told me this on Friday's interview that first video.

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SB CA

Okay. Video interview. I didn't... Today I didn't say anything about any of my theories when I went in there. 'Cause like I told you this hit me like a ton of bricks last night this morning at 4. I did not say anything, I'm not gonna put anybody's name out there. I'm not gonna jeopardize anybody's invest... even though I wanted to ask her, if Amy or um, Ricardo reference to Zanny? I mean I'm not gonna do that. As much as I wanted to I'm not gonna do that. If you guys want to sit down with her or the Orange County can or whoever. I know you can't..

SB CA

Nobody can. I know you can't. I haven't even told Jose this her attorney. I mean if someone could put this to her yes we... this is what we think. I mean 'cause she's hoping that we'll put it together. I mean she even today I know based on everything that I've told you and what I know Lee... I know you guys are gonna figure this out. And um, if that's true what I told you that this person put her down physically to the ground and threatened her life and threatened you know Caylee and I'm not sure.. and again you guys need to talk to Lee about that. Because he got that information. This stuff's gonna go out in public pretty darn soon. If this, if this person is still being referred to as Zanny she might think her cover's still good. But if she.. if I comes out that her name is Amy. They're gonna, they're gonna run. They're gonna hide that girl further and further. And that was what her attorney wanted to make clear yesterday. Some of these things should not be public knowledge just for the pure safety of Caylee. Because if someone felt pretty confident that no one's looking in their direction that's Casey's thrown 'em off. Like that she was instructed to. That they could even stay pretty locally. Or somewhere where they felt pretty safe. But if you get to the point where it's out

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there who this person might be. And she's actually betrayed them. That we may never see Caylee again. And in what condition I don't know. SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Or have they done physical harm. Urn, so I don't know.. there's just too many things.. you can kind of see where my train of thoughts going and why.. SB CA SB CA SB CA SB CA But has she.. ...these red flags.. ...has she... ...have come up. Has she physically told you personally told you somebody kidnapped her? Yes. It was, it was Zanny who did it. She's personally said that it was Zanny that has Caylee. That Zanny has Caylee. And that she does not know right now where Zanny's at. And like I said, Lee has more information on why Zanny would double cross her. And again if we're looking at motive right now we're starting to... I'm starting to see a little bit of a motive. If Casey promised her something... the other thing.. SB CA Like what. 'cause I'm still not seeing motive. Well, if she promised her a place to live and whatever I'm not sure. The other thing is to, Casey made a statement to me back in December or January that she'd lost a lot of her money in the stock market. And I said, really, she said yes a couple of friends got together. She didn't really elaborate, said that um, they all went on hunch they thought they you know has a sure thing. And she said, Zanny had lost a lot of money into that as well. And urn... SB Casey said she lost money too?

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1 CA She lost money in it and so did Zanny. And Casey gave us a password for her
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comp... for her side of the computer. We have a desk top at our house that urn, my husband and I have a login under Casa de' Anthony, which means.. SB CA SB Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... house of the Anthony's. Right.

CA That anybody can use. And then Casey has her own password. Well, she just to change her password form Rico, which I'm thinking stands for Ricardo. And it's the.. like three numbers and I'm not sure what it is, 234 or.. 230.. 262 or whatever
is it

I'm not sure.

SB CA

Why do you think those three numbers? Because I knew there was a 2 and a 3 in there. My husband knows what that is and so does Lee. They can tell you exactly what that is. That could be ...

SB CA

Okay. ... Ricardo's address. Her new, her new password is Timer55. We have no clue what Timer55 is. But she told Lee the other day Timer55 means, she has 55 days that she's being taught that lesson that I told you. Remember I said that person took... put her down on ground and said, I'm gonna teach you a lesson.

SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) She has 55 days. Okay, if we count from June 14 th , 6/14 to 8/9, which is Caylee's birthday, that's 55 days. And she said that Caylee will be returned on her birthday. At that time she's gonna learn her lesson. Now that was in the beginning when she first told her this. We don't know if anything's gonna

change now. Because no one knew that the police was gonna be pulled into it. Who knew that Casey's mom was gonna involve the police. You know maybe

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they all thought maybe this person thought that Casey could keep a secret that long I don't know. But I just find it hard to believe that Timer55... I don't know why she would pick Timer55? She's always used like Horace like our cat's name. I use Horace a lot at my work. SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) You know different combinations. I use my kid's names, I mean use things that are familiar... SB CA Right. ...not gonna forget. Ricardo was the last boyfriend that we knew about not

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Tony. She hadn't been home since Tony was her boyfriend. I'm not real sure that Tony is her boyfriend I think she was using him as a place to kind of hangout. He may feel that shhh... you know shhh, that might've been ... SB CA He was her boyfriend. ...that way. But I think Casey was stay.. hiding out there because she couldn't come home. And that Timer55 I'm not sure what date that was changed. I don't know if it was changed.. it's be interesting to find out from the Sheriff's Department because they had our computer, when that password was changed to Timer55. If it was changed that day that... 'cause Casey did have a little bit of access to the computer without me being there. I mean she logged on. I don't know if she had an opportunity to change her password on her side 'cause she was doing the My Space. sg CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Thing on her side of the computer. So, I happened yesterday just to do a real quick search. Do we need a break?

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CA You can have a break. SB CA SM SB No not... He's probably .. I already went to the bathroom. (laugh) Do you mind if I go to the...

CA No take a break. SB restroom real quick and I'll be back?

CA Sure. SB CA SM CA Okay, (sigh) (sigh) Hang in there. Hang in there. I'm trying. None of it makes sense, but I tell you if we have.. if we put our... Let's just say you know you.. you.. you look at all the angles and you look at, okay what if Casey did something to Caylee? And you're looking at all those angles. But if you look at the angles of a 22 year old mom who's scared for her life and truly feels like she's being threatened. You know no one knows how they're gonna act in a situation. Urn, I wasn't sure how I was gonna act on.. each time I picked up the phone what I was gonna say on those 911 calls. And would I do it differently? I don't know. If I ever was in a situation again I don't know what I'd do. You react when you react. You say what you say for a reason based on what you, what references you have. What references, what reference did I have? I had that car wasn't where it was supposed to be so I referenced it as a stolen car. Was that truly.. fully true? No because Casey had permission to take the car. But I needed to get the police out there. So, again you use references of what you know. So, Casey is giving the detectives references of

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what she knows. The detectives are looking at it as Casey's full of shit. Is deliberately lying. Deliberately deceiving them because she's guilty of

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something. But look at it in her shoes if she is a mom. Let's just give her the reasonable doubt here the presumption of innocence look at it. Instead of everybody thinking that she's guilty. Look at it from her standpoint where what if she really is a victim here? As much a Caylee is. And she is frightful that these people, whomever it is whether it's these people or Jesse or some frigging stranger off the street that we don't even know yet. Um, has you know has threatened her. If she's truly fearful she can't paint the entire picture because what's the first thing that's gonna happen? Someone's gonna storm right there. And if you're.. if you're not sure where Caylee's at and they're saying, I'm gonna hide her and if you come after me you'll never find her again and you may not find her alive. Or we're gonna start doing something to you family. I don't know it sounds so far fetched. You know Melich said it sounds like a fantasy, it sounds like... But you know what? It could be true. You know there's a lot of things out there that happen that you would think, God that's never gonna happen. But look at stuff happens all the time. So, if we put, if we give her the benefit of doubt and look at it from... SB CA SB CA (Returned to room) I was just explaining to Steve. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) You know everybody's looking at the ends, well what of she did something blah.. blah.. blah. But what if she really is innocent? And she's that, she's the victim in this as well. We're not giving her that presumed innocence. They were.. everybody's looking at as she's a, urn, what did they say? A person of interest?

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SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Well, it almost looks like she's their number one suspect instead of a person of interest. But if she's truly in the position where she is fearful. Like I said, she's drawing on what she can to give 'em enough information. I used the analogy of me calling the Sheriff's Department and saying the car was stolen. I referenced the car 'cause I didn't know anything else. Technically the car wasn't stolen because she had permission to take it. But it wasn't where it was suppose to be and that was the only thing I could think of to bring the police out. Well, now that she has the police here and willing to help. She's trying to give 'ern as much information as she can. And I realize she may not know where Caylee's at. She knows who these people are. And if they go pounding on their door where is Caylee? And now they think that Caylee's rat.. Casey's ratted them out. If we knocked on Ricardo and Amy's door right now, where's Caylee? You have Caylee because Casey says that she gave you to Caylee.

SB

Well let me... Let me throw this at you.

CA And they don't! SB If we follow her clues and we end up at their door, we're gonna knock on the door and we're gonna say... CA SB CA SB CA I know. ...., where's Caylee? I know. And the same situation is gonna exist. I understand. But the point of it is, we should do that.. we should number one, look at the possibilities where Caylee could be if they become a subject. I would

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want to know where his mom lives. What state and is there a possibility is he watching... his mom watching Caylee? SB I'm... I'm not about to tell you.

CA I know. SB CA If we have or have not done it. Because I don't know the specifics. Well I don't think that they have., They don't even know to look at these two people. I've never given them those two people as a possible person of interest. SB CA So, Ricardo and Amy are completely new to... I think so. ..Orange County? I mean they know of Amy as a person that brought me to Casey and that she had her car. But I don't know if Amy... SB Did you know.. did.. they didn't know any of this? They didn't know any specific information about it as far as you knew? CA SB CA SB CA SB CA SB CA They knew that I found Amy off of this. What's that phone... They have... ... number? They have ... This? ... all the original resumes. Okay. In Casey's possession. But again I have not shared any of this with them

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because I have not had an opportunity to speak with them. From the time I woke up this morning.

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I.. I will tell you this. Just based on what you just told me now. We had exactly the same thing that they have. And within ten minutes we had that. So, I think it would be safe to assume..

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CA SB CA

But do they know... .....that they have... ... all these little things. They know who Amy is, but they don't know, they don't realize that all the references to Zanny could be made to look at...

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SB About Amy. CA SB CA SB CA ...Amy. Right. About the roommate, the apartment all of that stuff, All that's Ricardo. All that's Ricardo. So, when you're talking Zanny and the roommate. Are we talking Amy and Ricardo? SB CA Right. Or Ricardo and Amy as the roommate I'm not sure 'cause she also said that that was Zanny's apartment. So, I'm not sure when Amy moved in with Ricardo. Because she referenced that as Zanny's apartment a couple of months ago. SB Okay.

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CA So, is Ricardo the nanny and Amy the roommate? I don't know because the roommate was blonde. SB CA SB Right. And bottom line is, there's just to much ... Do know Ricardo's last name?

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CA Morales.
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SB CA SB CA

Morales. Morales. You got it. Okay. Okay. Urn, Lee was also way before this... 'cause I even told him a couple of days ago I said, I don't think Amy has any... 'Cause he asked me, he goes, what do you know about Amy? And I said, I really know much, or but I don't think she has any involvement in this little bit that I know. She seems as shocked as I did. But you know I wasn't looking for a red flags. You know I didn't put two and two together about the car totaled, being totaled. Casey going to Jackson.. suppose to be in Jacksonville and that I was suppose to you know figure this stuff out. Urn, I certainly would've asked her more questions and maybe she would've been. I'm, you know I'm not sure why he sat there and looked like he was a nervous wreck and very uncomfortable the whole time. And I'm not the only one that noticed that. When all the friends came so, I'm not sure if he came just to kind of see what we thought we knew. And just wanted to know was he still safe.

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SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) So, urn, at no time did we have him feel uncomfortable because it didn't. But you know again I wasn't thinking that he was anybody of interest at that moment last week when we all got together. That it'd be I'd like to see what some of the other kids that were there Annie and Cory and some of 'ern that sat there and observed him and things that he said. They might remember something that I didn't. Just kind....

SB

Okay.

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CA

....to see you know if their impression was of him.

SB And that was at your house when? CA SB Last, either last Friday or Saturday, the kids came over. So, that would've been.. Just five days ago?

CA Yeah. SB CA Okay. This past weekend. It was right after we got to see Casey. Either that evening or the next day. And again all my days are running together. SB I understand. Because with... there's no, there's.. nothing's a normal day. And with not a full night sleep nothing's a normal day. You know it's not like I'm working and I even know..,. I think today's Wednesday you know. SB CA SB CA SB CA SB I want to do something now. And.... That's a lot of thunder. It's loud. (Inaudible)... Urn, that'll be somewhat cumbersome for you. I'll do whatever I need... Okay. ....to do. And you're gonna want to know why.

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CA Okay. SB I'm gonna tell you why. I'm gonna give you a questionnaire.

CA Okay. SB And I want you to answer it, and the person that you're answering it about is your daughter. CA Okay.

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SB

Okay, and the.. the more honest you are the better off we are to try and figure out what we're dealing with and how she's thinking.

CA Okay. SB And we're gonna give it to your husband and your son also.

CA Okay. SB And if you can think of some friends that are very close to her.

CA Okay. SB We want to give it to them too and let them...

CA Okay. ....sit down and... I'm gonna give you about 20 or 30 minutes to go through it. Yeah. Alright. If there's any questions in there that you don't feel comfortable an... answering. (raining outside) CA SB Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Just don't answer it.

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SB

CA Okay. SB CA SB CA SB CA SB There are.. I'll be honest and up front with you there are questions in there... Should I just go with my gut or should I... Go with your gut. ...just sit and think about it and go that way? Because sometimes your gut ... I'll show you, I'll show you... Because I don't know what kind of ... ....what it is.

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....questions.. I mean it' almost like when you take a test. Usually your first thing that pops in your head you're smarter to do that then try to over think something. And I don't want to over think something that can be very pertinent.

SB

No here's what I want you to do. I want you to start back here. I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll let you do this part first and then I'll come in and we'll do the rest together.

CA SB

Okay. And that way if you have any questions or anything about it. This part I want you to do from your gut. 'Cause... Okay. ...it's gonna be your initial reaction when you read it. I want you to look at it, look at your two options and then rate it. And I'll explain to you what it is. We're talking about Casey.

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CA SB CA SB CA SB CA SB CA SB CA

Is that as I know her now as what I knew her before? No, how you know her for the past 21 years of her life. Okay. As being her mother. Okay. Don't.. don't go on what you found out in the last two weeks. Two weeks. Go up until ... Go on.. ...the two weeks. ... how you describe her honestly. In your opinion. Okay.

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SB

It's.. it's a very simple thing if you don't have any reason or no response for it because you...

CA Okay. SB .. don't have way to rate it. Calm or nervous.

CA Okay. SB CA Or where were you... So, the calmer she is or the ...

SB Yeah. CA SB CA SB ....more close to being nervous. Or if she's just in middle she's... Right. writing a note.

CA Okay. SB And just go through those and we're gonna give you a little bit of time. And I'm gonna go get some Coke or something. CA Okay. SM You want me to fill your water up? Cold water? SB Yeah do you want anything else?

CA Yeah. SM I'll do that.

CA Yeah thank you very much. SM I'm (Inaudible)...

(Everybody laughed) CA SB Oh I.. I trust you. Take.. take your time.

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CA Thank you. SM CA SB (inaudible).. water jug (Inaudible)... I... I trust you'll do it as if you were gonna drink it yourself. Fill that out and then we'll go through the hard questions later.

CA Okay. SB CA SB And we'll do it together. Alright thanks. That way.. and by doing this I want you to understand we're not trying to implicate your daughter. What we're trying... CA SB Oh I understand. ....to do is figure out all the personalities. And when we can't physically talk to her. We have to rely on all the people that know her, to get to know her. CA Okay. SB Ourselves. And that's why we're doing this today. And I'm sure that your.. your son and ah... CA Thank you. SB ....your husband have probably already seen it because I gave it to this guy out there and said, here this will keep them busy for a little while. CA Okay. SB So, they don't worry about mom and...

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CA Okay. SB CA ... that kind of stuff okay. They know I'm fine. It just feels good to be able to talk to someone that you know is gonna listen. Whether or not... I know .. SB That's right.

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CA SB CA SB CA

...the outcome is still up for, we don't know what it is. But .. The outcome is not controlled by any of us. Exactly. But what I don't want is if I don't want something being just... (Inaudible)... .... all focused on one thing and us stop looking for Caylee. You know what I'm saying? This...

SB CA

Won't happen. I.. as much as my gut told me that I had to pickup the phone or drive her somewhere to get help. I have, I have stronger feeling that Caylee's there, out there. Yeah. And she's okay. I mean I don't know call it women's tuition or call it that strong bond.

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CA

SB CA

Yeah. I mean I feel in my heart he's alive and she's calling out to me, grammy CC come get me. And I just want to do that. So, um, I'm not gonna give up.

SB

Wouldn't expect you to. And trust me all the leads that they're being farmed out there. You know like some FDLE I talked with somebody here that FDLE had given a few leads. I've talked to two different investigators from out of state yesterday.

CA Okay. SB About this so we, every lead we get is gonna be followed up. They're not gonna be pushed aside because they are focusing on your daughter or anything like that. Every... all the leads are being farmed out. CA But it's...

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One of the hardest things in cases like... But it's... ....this is to do that. But it's hard to hear when you hear... or someone tells you that their department says, well we're wasting out time because she's dead. Then it thinks like well are they not doing anything. Are hey not taking this seriously and stuff like that.

CA

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CA

SB CA

That.. That's not good for the family. And the other thing is to, they were real close to us for the first few days. The first 48, 72 hours they were every little thing, talking to us, making sure.. You know and then from Saturday till last Monday a week ago, not this Monday, but a week ago just be... the night before..

SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... the bond hearing. Urn, no communication at all, none, none! That wasn't like them and I was kind of like, and then they come into our house and then start beating us up. Like what.. what's going on here you know? We're gonna testify against her and urn, you know this, this and this. And it's like, where did that come from? I mean we've been so helpful with you folks. Helpful with

everything. I mean I gave 'em my computers. They told me last week I can have my laptop back. I'd love to have my laptop because then I don't have to go in my house and just sit there and work. I can plug in where ever I'm at or I can.. SB CA Right. ....walk around my house and do that. Plus there's pictures on there that I'd like to get off from Caylee. Everybody's asking for different pictures to put on the thing. SB Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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CA

I can't get on my daughter's side of passwords. So, somebody called me from Chicago thinks he knows how to talk me through it he works for a computer company that he can talk me through it. So, I'm gonna try to do that this afternoon and see if I can't get on her side and get some more ...

SB CA

(Inaudible)... video releases out there and some more pictures you know besides what we have. So, I mean it's very frustrating when you don't feel, feel a little bit of compassion from the other...

SB CA SB CA

I understand. ....side. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And that's why it's almost like, you guys are partial on this area that I feel like you know. At least there's someone... I'm not asking for favors for you to tell us anything that we you know are not suppose to know. But it's almost like a reassurance that it's not just Orange County. And they want to put this nice little thing to bed so that they don't have to you know worry about it and they can move onto something else.

SB CA SB CA SB CA SB

It's a, it's a very delicate balance on all sides. Sure it is. So.. And it's hard sometimes. I know it is, but it's hard on our side you know. Oh no I.. when I say.... It's very hard... all sides I mean all sides.

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I know it's very hard though I mean because you know they'll have their public relations officer go out and speak to the press. Oh the Anthony's are just fine they're handing well. Well, no we're not we're... we're dying, we're dying. And the little bit of you know, this is what we're doing you don't have to tell us every lead. But you know reassurance ...

SB CA

(coughs) Sorry. Says a lot. You know and it's very difficult. It.. it.. I don't want to fight with them.
I

want them just like the media I don't want to fight with them. Be responsible in

what you're doing. Be responsible re[porting and be responsible following up with the family or whomever. You know it's, it's hard. I mean we're already grieving as it is because we're.. you know we don't have Caylee with us. And everyday that passes it's harder. SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) But then seeing 'ern do what they're doing to Casey. Again it's not like I don't care about what's going on with Casey. I know she's safe and we'll pick up the pieces. I want bring Caylee in as soon as we find Caylee then everything else will fall into place.
I

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think that's what everybody else wants.

SB SM CA

That's what everybody wants. That's that the main.. that's the main... I know.
...focus

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here.

CA

I know. But Casey has to feel confident and see I think that' what she meant. I'm gonna work very hard to get her to request to speak with someone outside the department. Because she feels like every thing that she's told them...

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Because she hears Zaneida's not a real person. Well that person is a real person, but whether or not it's this Zaneida or not. But you know... SB CA SB CA SB It's a real person to her. She just... Right. We don't know who that person is. Yes, it's a real person. And the name she's using isn't the real name.. Right. ...we're looking for. Right. But yeah and there are Zaneida's out there and like she's saying, follow up at least. And they may... there may be a tie to whatever. I mean this person may actually by name have Caylee. SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And we've got people looking for everybody with those names looking into the age and SB CA SB CA SB CA SB Yeah. ....you know where they've been. So, alright I'll do this. Take some time. Give you guys a break from... We'll be back in just a minute. ... my chatter. That's alright. You're doing fine. You're doing great.

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SB

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(Agents left room for a break) I'm gonna leave this door open in case you need anything.

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CA Okay.

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SM You have to have key to get back in. CA Okay. SM There's a ah, right down the hall there's also a restroom.

CA Okay. SM Um, right down the hall here.

CA Okay. SM We're gonna be either right out the door or...

CA Okay. SM CA (Inaudible)... Alright thanks. (Reading questionnaire Agent Bolin gave her) Hm.

(Talking in hallway) (Door closed) (Agents returned to room) SB CA (laugh) CA I swear through all of this you know the stress it's getting harder and harder for me to read. I don't know if it's lack of sleep or whatever. I said, I never needed glassed before, but sometimes it just starts to get blurry and I have to refocus... SB CA (laugh) ... and stuff. So, I think I'm gonna have to get... I have um, glasses when I drive, but I'm gonna have to probably get something new. What way out here... Some of these it depends on what you're.. I mean it's in context so... SB Context. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Do you mind if I sit down? Huh-ah. (Negative) Huh-ah. (Negative) I don't mind yes you can sit down.

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CA

So, some of 'em it's like I'm just gonna go to the middle of the road 'cause it depends...

SB CA SB

That's why when... ... on the context. That's why when you asked me I said, just your initial reaction.

CA Yeah. SB Whenever when you first think of it...

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CA Yeah. SB ....what do you think of. Depends on what you know normal, normal demeanor is what I'm going with. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) You know, but the things like, if something move her like literature or poetry or music or a movie. Well, I think all of us certain movies will move us. SB CA SB CA SM CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) You know so it just depends on that. But I'm (Inaudible)... That's alright. Certainly. (sigh) I told this. Doing it based on (Inaudible)... (Inaudible)... I'm only (Inaudible)... That was pretty easy.

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SB CA

SB How was that? CA Pretty easy. I mean ac couple of 'ern ... Pretty easy. ....that you know could go (Inaudible)... That's fine. Pretty easy. I mean from what I know of her and how I see her react.

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SM CA SB

(Inaudible)... I think I will. Enjoy. Urn, I'm just gonna read through these with you.

CA Sure. SB We'll go back to the, the other stuff. Urn, this is just biographical stuff. You said that she speak English right? CA Yes. SB Obviously.

CA And Spanglish. SB And a little bit of Spanish? Uh-huh. (Affirmative) She had Spanish in High School and a lot of her friends are Spanish. So, she tries and she was wanting to be more fluent in Spanish. SB CA SB Okay. Ah, and born and raised with you and your husband? Uh-huh. (Affirmative) How would you describe your relationship with her?

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CA With my daughter? SB CA Between you and her and then your husband and her? Urn, Casey and I are like best friends. I mean she's.. we bounce things off of each other. We're a lot alike. Um, soon as I get in the car on my way home from work I pick up the phone and I call her. And she gets me through that half hour drive home. I mean we just like to chit-chat. Urn, she's very artistic like me. Urn, she likes to read, she you know likes to write. My son has the same characteristics of that so. I mean we, we, we get along very well. SB Very close?

CA Very close.

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Okay ho about dad? Her and her dad have a special relationship. Urn, they're a lot alike on a lot of things. Casey and urn, a few years ago George and I were separated.

CA

SB CA SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Because of urn, some mistruths from him you know. Yeah. And um, so their relationship has been strained over the last few years. Urn, mainly just because of his relationship with me. But we're, we were working all that out and I think, I don't know God always has a reason for things that he does. And I think this has brought us close together. And you know we even said that...

SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ....this is maybe you know one of the things that, that's' the plan. You know with all this Caylee that you know him and I are working on things and we're gonna be stronger, we're not gonna let things get in the way. But there was some mistrust and Casey and Lee were very betrayed from that and they're hurt. So, both of their relationship have been strained with their father. But prior to that you know just as close and they're just.. you could see that it's.. it's starting rebuild again. You know and it's hard though because we were separated for six months and that was right after Caylee was born. So...

SB CA

Okay. ....it's hard. And um, so I know it's not where it was before Caylee was born. And Caylee has northing to do with this, this just was timing that I found out something that he had been keeping from me for a while.

SB

Okay.

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So, but they were always very close. Very, very close. Casey has one brother.

SB

CA Yes. SB CA SB CA SB No sisters? No sisters. Just the two of 'em right? Uh-huh. (Affirmative) What, what would.. how would you describe the relationship between Casey and Lee? CA Um, like a normal brother/sister relationship. I have an older brother and it's a love/hate thing. SB CA (laugh) But.. but you know annoying at times, but on both sides. But push comes to shove very strong you know family. Look out for each other. SB CA SB CA Strong loyalty there? Yes very strong loyalty there. Okay. Very strong. Little petty stuff doesn't mean anything when you know someone's hurting in our relationship whatever. SB CA (Inaudible)... Casey was always there for relationships for him and he was there if there was relationships that she wanted to talk to him about so. SB Who.. who within the family had the greatest amount of influence on her?

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CA On Casey? SB Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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CA SB CA SB CA SB CA

I would have to say... I would think it would be me. Okay. And I'm not sure if she would say that. But I would... (laugh) ....think that. Why.. why would you say that? I don't know. You see a lot more of her and you... I see.. I.. well I see a lot of her father and I see a lot of me, but I mean her characteristics she always... she always told me she wanted to grow up and be like me. And she wanted to model herself after me and being a mother and things like that. And I know she was struggling very much so to have her independence being a mom, it's very hard. I don't think I could live with my mom raising a child. I mean as close as I am with my mom I live my mom to death. But it's hard because it's hard for George and I not to say something to her one in a while about Caylee. She's a great child, but sometimes you'd say, well can't she stay up a little bit we're playing grandparents and she's say, no it's her bedtime. So, she's right she's them mom and she should be the one that says that she should stay... you know when she should go to bed. George and I are trying to spoil her we don't have an opportunity to spoil her like normal grandparents we're there so.

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SB CA

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) There'd be some times and I'd back off and say, you're right she's your child it's time to go to bed. Even though I may only had an hour with her and I wanted an hour more with her or something. But that's normal things.

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SB CA

Right. I mean that's urn, but I...

SB You would've been the same way. CA SB CA I would've been same... That's why you're saying that. I would've been the same way with my mom. Would've been living with me and she'd say, well keep her up. And I'd say no she's got to go to bed because then she's gonna be cranky in the morning and blah.. blah.. blah. Because you don't have to deal with her I do. So, I mean I understand that type of thing. SB Okay, who., who in the family did she have the... greatest amount of conflict with? CA SB Probably her dad in the last few years. Just because of the things... Right. Don't worry about the table. We'll get it cleaned later don't worry. I'm sure I'll dump something in here in a little while. Was there any... was there any of there following abuse issues present in the household? Any physical, emotional, sexual or substance abuse? CA No. SB CA Um, what religion if any is practiced by you guys or by her? Urn, we don't go to formal church. We all pray and Lee's the only one that I think a few years ago urn, when he was a high school. Kind of lost his faith a little bit `cause he was very ill and I think sometimes when you see things like that. And I've you know urn, Casey's always read her bible. Urn, George and I went to church when we were little and stuff like that. But as a family we didn't. SB Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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We talked about God urn, it wasn't a normal thing that we sit down and prayed at dinner or anything like that. We're not overly religious, but it seems like in time of crisis we did. I remember when the hurricanes came we all prayed together and things like that. I mean when it.. it's unfortunate and George and I have been talking about this. That we feel more and more close to God now then we ever have. 'Cause you know when you start praying three or four times a day instead of.. I mean I pray to God everyday and I always have since I was a child. But I pray to him all day long. You know and I feel like I'm.. I feel like it's too late that you know he's... I.. I can't say that. But I mean I feel like I should've been doing it all along. You know you always look at what should I have done differently and I don't want to ask for any favors of him. But I'm being selfish and then I should be. He..

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SB CA SB

Right. ... he's (Inaudible)... Christian though?

CA Yes. SB CA SB CA SB CA SB CA Okay. In a round about way yes. (laugh) That's alright. But my son... You... ...would probably say, not sure, unknown. (laugh) That's right. Even though he'll wear his cross that I gave him. Um, and I gave him that cross during that time where I realized that he was started to fade. But when asked

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why he wears it if you don't believe in God. Because my morn gave it to me. But I saw him praying in his own way. I've seen him pray in his own way. SB CA SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) You know so, I know there's faith there. Is Casey religious? Yeah she reads the bible more then any of us. In fact we tried to get her bible to her and they won't let her have it. I gave her... in fact I was so shocked when I opened her bible and my picture was the one that was in her bible. SB Actually they will have one for her there.

CA Okay. SB CA Um, they should. yeah I don't know where her bible is I haven't gotten it back. But they said that he.. she couldn't have it Jose didn't bring it back to us so I'm hoping to get that back soon. SB Okay. CA So. SB CA How.. how does, how does Casey feel about her physical appearance? Urn, sometimes she'll think she's too thin. I mean just to go... you know a young girl. And sometimes she'll think she's too fat. I mean but no she's a lot of self confidence she always has been. Um, she had a little chubby stage when she was in 9th grade. Not.. not fat or anything. She had a little chubby stage so you know it's all typical of little girls, you know young girls. Urn, but she works out she's very you know she runs urn, she does crunches. I mean she's always mindful of what she eats and things like that. She has a good urn, feeling of self

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confidence. And you know people tell her she's pretty you know and can't say
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that she's you know an ugly girl. She's very attractive girl so, I mean ... SB CA SB Okay. ..that give her some confidence. Does she have any noticeable physical characteristics or unusual mannerisms or gestures that you... you know as her mother? CA Unusual? SB Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Or just any ..

CA No. ...general ones? Nothing unusual, but I mean her smile she's always smiling. She's got a great smile. And what most people when they first meet Casey she's very outgoing and urn, she's a very likable person. And the most... first thing you see is her eyes and that smile and I see that in Caylee is that smile. And well... SB CA SB CA SB CA Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... those eyes captive you and they... Okay. ... bring you in. How does she feel about her smile? Urn, she.. I've never known her to not say she didn't have a good smile. When she was little she had a gap in he teeth until she got ... SB CA She knows it works for her? I think she knows it works for her. I mean she's got a good smile. I mean anybody that smiles.. I been told I need to smile more even before all this. You know some people are more urn self conscious of their smile.

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SB CA

Right. I don't like my smile. Some people are self conscious of their smile. George is very self conscious of his smile. I like to smile, but you know I'm.. I'm a little bit more self conscious. I don't think Casey's self conscious in any way I think she's you know feels very secure in who she is.

SB CA SB

Have there been any recent.. recent noticeable changes in her appearance? No. No. Has she expressed any concerns about her own health?

CA No. Has she has any chronic illnesses or injury that continues to have an impact on her life? CA SB CA SB CA SB CA SB No chronic anything. Currently taking medication? Not that I'm aware of. Has she ever had surgery to include cosmetic surgery? No. Has she had a history of any sexually transmitted diseases? Not that I'm aware of. Does she had a history of mental illness or behavioral control problems as she grew up? CA Nope. SB CA SB CA Is there any history of mental illness in the family? Well, if you ask George he thinks his sister's crazy, but nothing diagnosed. Nothing diagnosed. That's what I'm talking about. (laugh) (laugh)

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SB: CA: SB: CA:

Has she ever attempted... I'm sorry. (laugh) That's alright. We're gonna get to some .... A figure.. (Inaudible)... crazy to but nothing diagnosed.

SB: Has she ever expressed any thoughts of suicide or attempted suicide? CA: Urn, no thoughts of suicide. Urn, a few months back she did talk about possibly going somewhere to talk to someone get some help. I actually a few months ago urn, sought out some counseling myself. SB: For her or for you?

10 CA: For me. 11 SB: Okay about her, when she said she was looking for it, did she say why?
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CA:

Urn, she had, she.. you know I started catching her in a few lies and it was frustrating with me how to deal with her. So, I went to counseling because I've never had to deal with that. Just little things.

SB:

Uh-huh. (Affirmative)
I

CA: And urn, I didn't want to.. you know I didn't want to go about it the wrong way. was treading on new, on new, new territory a new waters. And urn, I think that's you know that.. that helped me a little bit. SB: CA: SB: Okay. Did she ever get counseling for that? Not that I'm aware of. She talked about it, but she didn't go...

CA: No. ...that you know of? Okay.

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CA: No. No. We've talked about eventually going to group counseling and we never did. I think a lot of it was with her struggle with her dad and stuff too trying to get

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together. I suggested all of us getting together urn, not to really rat George out or nothing. But you know there was ... he had deceived me for a few years about money, financial things and stuff like that. And he tend to you know cover things up a little bit for a while. And I was starting to see some of those trends with Casey as far as not being truthful. And when I went to the counselor she said that you know sometimes people if they see someone close to them push it then they might do the same thing too. SB: Right.

CA: So, that's why I thought maybe as a group we might want to talk about it. But that never panned out. I mean it never happened it was never a time issue where we could al get together and all that. SM: SB: Go to it. Does she use alcohol, tobacco or drugs?

CA: Not to my knowledge. I mean I know she would have an occasional, once in a while.. I mean it's very rare that George and I wouldn't have alcohol in the home. Once in a great while we'll have a wine cooler or you know one of those Daiquiri things.. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: .. in a you know already made up. And I know that she's drank that in the house. I know on he birthday on her 21 st birthday she got inebriated and her brother brought her home. But he was with her and they all, they knew the 25 th birthday was gonna be a big bash. And I witnessed her throwing up in the front yard and brought her in. That's a normal thing. But talking to her friends she was always the one that would tell them you know you need to slow down and things like

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that. Talking to her friends she was the one, she might have a beer or something like that. But she wasn't one that would just be rip roaring drunk. SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Um, at least the friends that have come and talked to us about it.

SB: Okay. CA: And no hard drugs or anything. Um, you know I mean I, I'm not aware of anything. SB: CA: SB: What.. what are her sleeping habits? Does she get up early or late? Um... Stay up late? Not be able to sleep?

CA: She typically some days she'll go to be early 9 o'clock. Some days she'd stay up till 12 o'clock depending on what was going on, how Caylee was. Most of the time we try to get Caylee in bed by 8 or 8:30. You know if Caylee was urn, interested in something or she let her stay up or I convinced Casey to let her stay up. You know she might not get to bed till 10, 10:30 and then it was hard for Casey to unwind. So, she might stay up a little bit. But I know sometimes she would talk on the phone with her friends. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: You know late at night or someone would text her and then she'd talk on her.. you know um, at night. But she's not a early morning person unless she had something she had to do. I mean she typically you know sleep till 7 or 8. Uhhuh. (Affirmative) Caylee hopefully would sleep till 7 or 8 and if Caylee was up, then she'd you know let Caylee.. Caylee would sleep with her. And um, Casey had DVD's in her bedroom in the in.. already programmed in so all she had to do

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was hit the play button and she could lay down while, you know continue to rest while Caylee watched you know a video. SB: CA: DVD's. Yeah, Veggie Tales or something in the morning and she'd be content laying with mommy. SB: CA: SB: CA: She.. you.. she had normal sleep habits so she wasn't.. Yeah. ...extremely late night person? No, no, no. And insomniac that couldn't sleep at all or anything like that? Not like me right now. Hot flashes wake me up in the middle of the night can't go back to bed. SB: CA: SB: Are here any.. any recent changes in her sleeping habits that you're aware of? Not that I'm aware of. It's all been pretty much the same. What's the highest level of schooling that she received? Achieved? Um, high school she was one half credit shy of her diploma. She was suppose to have graduated. We found out that two days before graduation that one of her credits... And I actually was upset about this because I went to um, the counselor in her junior year and said this is gonna be an issue and you need to fix it now. Because they had pulled her halfway through the first semester from one teacher to the next. Well, they were at different ... SB: CA: Places. ...places. And um, they wouldn't let any of the other stuff count so she ended up taking.. she just dropped that first part of her English. Well she made up half of that semester, but didn't ever make up the second half. And urn, we didn't catch

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it until they cut it like the day before she was able to walk. So, she didn't actually get her diploma. And then she was gonna go ahead and get it and never did because right after graduation she got her job at Kodak and started working right away. So, she's a half credit shy of graduation. In fact all her friends last year graduated, but she just didn't walk. SB: Did she participate in any sports or other extra curricular activities?

CA: Yeah she was in Track, she did photography urn, in fact she was.. she would've probably gone off to photography school had she not become pregnant with urn, Caylee. 'Cause she started urn, we got that.. she got that job at Kodak like a week after graduation and urn, was doing very well through them. And it was actually good for her because she got good exposure with a lot of stuff. And urn, we were planning on possibly having her go over to Tampa. She got offers from California all over the place really good photography schools. And when she found out she was pregnant with Caylee the focus kind of went. But she was just starting to get back into thinking about that. Urn, you know getting her urn, GED you know finishing that last credit and going and start doing some other things. SB: CA: SB: CA: Okay. She interact well with all of her peers? I believe so. Or you... She's very well liked. She has a lot of friends. She has a lot of friends from years ago. And we.,. people have been you know reaching out that you know she hasn't seen for a while and they all think very highly of her. SB: Are there any problems that you can remember of her with any peers in school or faculty.

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Urn, not that I'm aware of. Urn, the only one that I know she really didn't like was that one English teacher and that one grade that she argued with. Because it was like, well why can't you accept what I've done from this other teacher? And I kind of argued the same things and I thought that was kind of was unfair. But nothing she always gets along with...

SB: CA:

No learning disabilities or anything like that? No, no.

SB: Okay, types of employment that she's had? You said the Kodak store? CA: Yes urn, well not Kodak store but urn, they sub-contract out... You know when you go into the urn, like Universal theme parks those people that take your pictures? SB: Yeah. CA: That was through Kodak she worked... SB: CA: Right. directly through them. It's not a Universal employee even though they went to Universal had Universal badges. She was actually employee of Kodak. SB: Of Kodak. CA: And then a year or so later Kodak lost their contract with them and it went with Color Vision. And she was with Color Vision and just before Caylee was born actually got a position in Human Resources and was in there. And then when she urn... SB: Human Resources with Color Vision? CA: With Color Vision. Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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SB: Okay.

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CA: And then from there it was under the impression she was still working with Color
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Vision um, you know.. SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) .... at a sight not in Human Resources. They didn't hold her position. You don't have to when you go for a leave of absence to hold your exact position. As long... SB: Just have to retain your employment? CA: Exactly. And um, so she was on.. in different sights at Universal through Color Vision. Like at Mummy or Men in Black or whatever they needed. Um, and like where you would do the ride and they'take the picture. And then... SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: ....they go over um, and then you process whatever they wanted. SB: Get the pictures, yeah.

CA: Yes. SB: How would you describe her overall work record? Was she hard working? Was she efficient? What... CA: Well she got a plaque within that first.. she got the employee of the year that first year. We have the plaque at home. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: Um, she was the youngest employee to ever get employee of the year and not even... I mean she was just there six months and got employee of the year. So, I think did pretty good for her to move up to Human Resources I thought that was pretty good. SB: CA: Okay. Some of these get tricky. That's alright. I'm (Inaudible)...

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SB: Some of 'em get somewhat uncomfortable. Is she homosexual, heterosexual or


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bi-sexual? CA: As far as I know she's home... I mean... heterosexual. Heterosexual. SB: Um, is she currently married? We know that's a no.

CA: No. SB: CA: SB: CA: Or in some other intimate relationship that you're aware of? Well, I didn't know about Tony. So, I don't know what their... Status is. I don't know.. status. So, we'll say no because you don't.

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SB:

And that's fine. Is this relationship important to her from what you've gathered?

CA: Tony? SB: CA: Yeah. I don't think so.

SB: How about Ricardo? CA: SB: CA: I don't think so. Has she ever been unfaithful in a relationship? I can't answer that. The one person that I know in her life that means a lot to her. Male-wise is Ryan Pasley he's one of her best friends and he was her first crush. And he has been in her life since urn, elementary school. And I know urn, I know he um, you know he's one that she's always talked about and he's (Inaudible)... SB: He's till around?

CA: Yeah I mean ... SB: Have you seen him since all this has happened or heard from him?

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CA:

No actually talked to him and he does live in Jacksonville, but he' not the Jacksonville connection. And Ryan and I speak all the time and I know Ryan. I mean urn, I without a doubt Lee and I, Lee knows Ryan, we all know Ryan has nothing to do with Caylee.

SB: CA:

Right. He's just as... I mean I can say that as confident as I know George or Lee didn't have anything to do with anything with Caylee.

SB: CA:

What... But yes I have spoken with Ryan. In fact that very first morning on the 16 th of July, I reached out to Ryan and asked him urn, if he could help. Because we were looking... I didn't know if Casey was in Jacksonville if there was any connections there and he had connections he said with P.I.'s. And we.. Casey helped me email some pictures recent pictures of Caylee up to Ryan.

SB: Okay. CA: And he had been working as soon as that Wednesday morning to help look for Caylee. So, he was one of the people we reached out to. He's a good, he's a real good friend. SB: CA: Has she ever expressed her attitudes or feelings about infidelity? Not really.

SB: I'm assuming some of your next answers are gonna be I don't know. But what are her preferred sexual acts? CA: SB: I have no clue. That's something I never spoke with her about. Did she ever explain or describe any sexual fantasies that she had to you?

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CA:

No that's... that's something we really didn't talk about. I know... I mean she told me when she became sexually active I knew way before her father did. I mean

SB: CA: SB: CA: SB:

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... it's something mom talks to her about. Right. Talk about birth control. I mean that's mother's usually... The mother/daughter stuff.

CA: Exactly. Urn, but no we never discussed you know... SB: Okay. CA: SB: ....particulars. In your opinion did she, did she or has she engaged in any risky sexual behavior i.e., unprotected sex, multiple sex partners or.... CA: SB: CA: I.... ... monogamist? I don't know I mean...

SB: Okay. CA: ....I have no clue. answer that. SB: You may know some of this. Most of the people that she has been with. Where would you say she met them? Is she a bar hopper or does she meet people at school? Most of her boyfriends and stuff where has she told you that she met `em? CA: A lot of he friends like her fianc Jesse was through urn, Universal connection with her working at Color Vision, Jesse was urn, one of their security officers. I would hope she's smart enough not to, but again I can't

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This Jeff person that introduced her to Zanny was an IT person. Urn, a lot of her friends are from high school. So, urn, I'm not sure how she met this urn, Tony person. SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: Okay. This Anthony Lazzaro person I'm not sure how she met him. Anthony Lazzaro's his name? Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Okay. I really don't know much about that kid. I only saw him for just from the outside his door sitting on the couch, I did speak with him on the phone once. After that reached out to him just to see if we could put down, figure out where she was and I could make some sense of the conversation she did. He was willing to talk to me, but he wanted to speak with the Orange County Sheriff's Department present and they said no. Deputy Melich said no that wasn't a good idea. Which I couldn't understand why he wouldn't want us to sit and talk. SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: Yeah. What a, what's Caylee's date of birth? Um, 8/9/2005. She'll be three. Okay. She's biological right? Yes. Okay. What's the.. what's the quality of relationship between Casey and Caylee? I know you've described, but how would you describe.. is it close? CA: SB: CA: Ex... yes extremely... Excellent? ...close. I mean that.. you can see it in the pictures, you can see it in their eyes. I mean she loves her mommy to... you know dearly.

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SB: CA:

Yeah. The only time she would leave mommy is if i came home you know. You know for the day. You know if Casey had spent the day with her and I just gotten home. You know of course she's gonna run and give me a hug or her grandpa.

SB: CA: SB: CA: SB:

Right. Or if uncle Lee comes over. But she loves her mom. Okay. Very close. Outside of family or intimate relationships or any close relationships that you know of? Casey? Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Um, close relationships like, friends the relationships? Yeah outside of inner relationships or family one who would you describe as her closest relation... her best friend so to speak?

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SB: CA: SB:

CA: SB: CA:

Um, Ryan as the male and she always refers to him as her best friend. Okay. And um, probably Annie and forgive me I really don't know Annie's last name. Um, but Annie is urn, probably her closest and Lauren, Lauren Gibbs.

SB: CA: SB:

High school friends? High school friends. Has she ever belonged to any groups or organizations including internet groups that you're aware of?

CA:

If you call My Space an internet group. I know of that. Urn, you know outside of the high school and club stuff nothing after high school.

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SB: Okay. CA: Except My Space and what do they call... Face Book? I didn't even know Face Book existed. SB: Does she.. been on Face Book that you know of? CA: SB: CA: I believe so. I heard um, someone say that she had Face Book... Page. ... account. Or page...

SB: Okay. CA: ....or whatever I don't know. I didn't even know that.. I didn't know there was a Face Book.(laugh) I mean I hate to say. I mean I've heard about My Space. Some of my friends are on My Space. SB: Yeah. CA: I'm thinking, isn't that kind of like high school stuff that people I guess meet other people? SB: CA: SB: CA: Pretty much not anymore. (laugh) I know so, I mean I found a lot of stuff out in the last month that I guess I need to. Has she ever expressed any distrust of any person or organization or group? Not that I'm..

SB: That stands out? CA: SB: CA: No, not that I ever recall her say. Does she have a role model or public figure that she admires? She always told me I was her role model, role model. Public figure, I don't ever remember her.. You know she's not... she was never one to hang posters like ah, you know this teenage... SB: People, yeah.

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t.

CA:

....people stuff like that she was never one to do that. So, urn, no she didn't get caught up in all that other stuff.

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SB: What does she value most? CA: Right now her daughter. I mean I think she's.. I think since Caylee was born I think she values her daughter and her relationship with her daughter. I think that's her.. been her priority and it's been very obvious. And I'm not just saying that because of the investigation or Caylee's missing. I would say that, I would've said that two months ago, two years ago, the day she was born you could see it from ... SB: What would you have said before Caylee was born? CA: What she valued most? Family and her friends. Urn, pretty much you know Casey likes you know urn.. I remember reading this question. She's not a loner. SB: CA: SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) She does like... I mean we all like downtime. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) I would prefer to be more downtime. I like to be with my friends, truthful I like peace and quiet 'cause I never get it. Like sometimes you want what you don't have. Urn, but Casey likes to be with someone most of time. She does once in a while like to be by herself. But she either likes to be sitting and talking to me or talking on the... with a friend or something like that. And Lee's totally opposite he like.. he'd rather be alone most of the time. SB: Who does she turn to for advise? CA: Urn, if not me urn, Lee and she'll reach out to her friends. She'll ask.. and she'll ask a couple friends I think if you know she's really on the fence with something. SB: Okay. What does she do in her spare time?

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Urn, she likes to take pictures you know. She likes to urn, photograph Caylee. But urn, she likes to write. Lee and Casey like to write things. She likes to write thoughts and different things. Urn...

SB: CA:

Does she keep her thoughts or writings some place that you're aware of? Yeah she'll leave 'em out or she'll have a drawer and she doesn't mind us reading them. She's never been secretive like that kind...

SB: CA:

Okay. ...thing. Urn, her and I talked about writing a book you know children's book and you know using Caylee as an inspiration. Urn, she's very creative. Urn, she likes to urn, plan things you know she was wanted to be an event coordinator slash do photography like at events birthday parties, weddings things like that. Urn, she'd been working on compiling some things together you know to do that. And urn, you know Ca.. she's consumed with Caylee as far as you know doing stuff with her. I mean spending time with her, quality time with her. And I.. when I'm not working I'm consumed with spending quality time with Caylee. She's just a joy to be around so.

SB: CA:

Does she own a pet? We have urn, four pets in the house. Urn, there's one cat that's specially was obtained for her.

SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA:

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) But he's well everybody's pet. I mean she's.. Right. ....doesn't have one, but we have two cats and two dogs. She... she loves 'em? Oh my gosh yes.

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Family pets?

CA: Yes. In fact she let's them sleep on her bed with Caylee and her. As long as they're not disturbing Caylee's sleep. SB: I think I know the next question, but on what does she spend her time and money and effort? CA: SB: CA: I think Caylee. I mean she spoils her that's why it's hard for me to spoil her. If you know it, does she view pornography? I've never had any evidence. I never even found a Play Girl in Lee's room so.. (laugh) no. So, if they do they're doing it on their time not where I can see it so.

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she spend on it? CA: SB: Urn... Is it constant or just you know..

CA: No. SB: CA: ....whenever she has to? It's.. it's whenever she can. I mean mainly because it's.. it's hard to do it with Caylee. Caylee likes to go on the computer. Urn, she usually will set aside time and he'd go on the computer like if I came home from work after dinner or whatever. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: You know one of us would give Caylee a bath and she'd go on the computer for a little bit and talk to her friends on MY Space. Do a little um, research on things she was working on or whatever. And urn, after an hour or so then she'd come back out and join us and put Caylee to bed. I mean it was not a whole lot. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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CA:

I mean she wouldn't stay up every night on the computer doing anything like that.
I

don't...

SB: Maybe an hour a day? CA: Yeah, I don't..

SB: A the house? CA: ....think more then a couple of hours a day at the most. Depending.. you know depends on the day. Maybe if Caylee had a long nap and she was bored she might go on the computer instead of flipping on the TV if she didn't have anything else to do. Has she met anyone in person after initial contact online that you know of? I've never known her to make an internet connection. But I don't.. I don't know I mean I can't say one way or the other, but I put... I've never heard her talk about anybody that she met through the internet. SB: CA: SB: CA: How would you describe.. she.. I mean she has a driver's license obviously. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) How would you describe her driving? She's very cautious driver. Urn, I.. I.. other then my husband or my son I'd rather ride with her as a driver. SB: (laugh)

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CA: (Laugh) So, that tells you something. And that even before Caylee was born.
SO...

SB: What.. what would you describe as the positives of her personality? CA: Um, she's very compassionate, very caring, very outgoing. Urn, she's.. her friends label her as the mom of the group. And I find that very funny because that's what my co-workers call me. You know I'm always worried about you

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know are you eating? And I might not be the one.. I'm.. I'm not, I'm not eat, but I'm always telling her, well you need to eat, you need to get some more rest, you need to do this. What can I do for you, you know things like that. And, and they.. they said that she was the mama out of the group she kind of keep everybody on the right track. And I was kind of like that to in high school and afterwards. You know my friends smoke pot, I never did that. They smoked cigarettes, I never did that. Urn, if we drank, yeah I could count on maybe one hand times that I got inebriated but wouldn't drive home. I was usually the designated driver. So, I mean Casey's kind of like that to so. SB: What., what negative qualities do you see in her personality?

CA: Urn, God I never thought about it. Urn, obviously now she has some tendencies to lie, but I mean I would say urn, complete truthfulness. Which was never a big.. a huge issue until recently. Urn, never had reason to really discount where she was or what she was saying. Urn... SB: What were here life goals or her ambitions or dreams that she talked about? CA: You know she wanted to have a family. She wanted to you know eventually be married and have a couple more children. And she wanted to do something with photography, event planning or whatever. She talked about having her own urn, photography studio. And at one point when she was God right out of high school, 18. Just before Caylee was born she talked about having a urn, a diner/restaurant like Casey's or something like that. Something that was Irish you know. SB: Something Irish?

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MD

CA: She has an Irish connection. Yeah she loves shamrocks. Urn, she has a little
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Irish in our background and a lot of Irish from urn, my husband's background so. And then she's you know born by St. Patrick's Day. So, she's always been ... SB: During her life that you know her, her (Inaudible)... and the whole time. What significant stressors has he experienced? CA: Stress? SB: CA: Stressors. What.. what ... I think the biggest stress in her life was her brother's illness and when he was 16 she was 13, Lee urn, Lee had urn, he had ITP, which I don't know if you guys know that what that means. He had no platelets, he had very low platelets. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: Where he was at risk for hemorrhaging and not being able to clot. And that was a result of taking acutain. Acutain (Inaudible)... SB: CA: (Inaudible)... And it put him in the hospital and put him on restriction. It was just before 16 th birthday. He wasn't allowed to drive, it was a year before he could get his license because we had to be very careful. It took months and months and months gong to the doctors a couple times a week and there was a lot of stress. And I think ... SB: How did she handle it?

CA: She was very supportive. We.. I don't know if any of us handle well. Lee went into a depression at that time and I think that's the time where I felt like he felt like there was no God or whatever. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: And urn, she was very supportive of him. But he kind of didn't really want talk to a lot of people then. Uri, but she.. she coped very well I men trying to encourage

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him to bring friends over and things like that. Um, as we all did, but we gave him his space when he asked for it. Urn, you know would I have done something different? I probably would've sought out some help for him. I mean I think the fact that he couldn't participate in sports for almost a year. Couldn't drive a car. Had to sit in the backseat and had to be well protected. That was very difficult. I mean it was a change in all of our live styles. She was used to going out playing basketball with him, fool around with his friends. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: My husband and I coached basketball um, FBBA with the kids and um, I was very involved with the FBBA for several years, was the treasurer for our local FBBA Association and urn, my husband and I both coached team. And it was all made up of all Lee's friends and she always went to the games and cheered 'em on and things like that, very close. So, I think that was probably the biggest stress because when we moved here in '89 it was stressful for me and George, but the kids didn't notice it. She was only 3. SB: CA: Yeah. So, I don't think that was big stress in her life. And um, the only other stress that she had was when George and I were having problems right after Caylee was born. I think that's really the only major stress. I mean we haven't... well she had a loss of a good friend in a car accident right close to our house. I almost forgot about that. A year after high school I think. Adam Mosuer got killed. Someone pulled out and you know killed him. He was right outside his own development and he was killed and he was only um, he was just between Caylee's birth and urn, right after high school. So, they were very young. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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CA: And that was kind of traumatic for her. Really close friends and passed but she... I mean she coped with it very well. I mean all their friends you know they all.. it's very sad the marker's still there today we pass it all the time. But I mean she didn't have any ill effects from that it was just a normal (Inaudible)... SB: CA: No long lasting... No long lasting thing like that. And I don't recall any other major stresses.

SB: Have you, have you ever witnessed her become overwhelmed by stress? CA: No. I mean we had some loss of pets two years ago urn, you know. Not two years ago. Urn, Caylee's 3 so almost 3 1/2, 4 years ago. We lost two of our family pets within months of each other. We... Cocker Spaniels, we had the mom and a puppy when the kids were little we let the Cocker have a litter of puppies and we kept one of 'em. And they both died within from October to January. So, we loss both of 'ern in a short period of time. They were older they had cancer and things like that. And you know the loss of a pet's a traumatic thing. SB: Yeah. CA: But again she got over it and as we all did, we grieved and then we got new puppies, so you move on. But no long lasting things. So, I mean those are just normal things but no family you know losses. No deaths that were close to her like all her grandparents are still alive. You know and things like that. SB: (cough) Yeah. CA: So. SB: Does she have the capacity to show empathy and compassion? CA: Oh absolutely. Urn, she... she's the first one if someone.. if she knows one of her family... I mean she was, she was the... my rock when George and I split for

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a while. And urn, she's like that with all her friends when she talk.. you can see it. A lot of her friends would call her with.. for advice. A couple of her friends been through bad marriages already and different things. Urn, she reaches out to all her friends that are in the service. Urn, keeps in touch with them. I mean you know she's real in touch with other peoples' feelings. SB: Is she competitive?

CA: She was in high school. She ran track and you know.. she was a long distant runner and it was a team you know the.. I don't think she did too many single things it was all you know they want to win, but it was a competitive thing and she knew it was.. SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... you know a team effort. Urn, I don't think she's ever over competitive like I see.. SB: Not like at home with her brother all the time (Inaudible)...

CA: No, Lee and Casey were never competitive I don't think. I never saw it that they were competitive for our attention or anything else. We.. we you know I don't see ever either one of 'em vying for attention like you see with some families or some kids trying to do that. SB: CA: SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Urn, they were both really good kids. I mean ... How would you describe her opinion of herself? I think she's pretty confident and I think she feels that she has self worth. I mean I would be shocked if heard differently. And I think... I think having Caylee just validated that there's a lot of good that can come out of you and Caylee's a good little girl.

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SB: You think her self image is accurate? CA: SB: CA: I think so. Does she display emotion appropriately to the circumstances in your opinion? I believe so I've never seen her act inappropriately. I mean I've never seen her just cry at the drop of a hat. I mean we're all hormonal when it comes to our period times and things like that. But I mean I mean if she's gonna... if you're gonna cry or be sad it just brings the tears out a little faster. It doesn't mean it's no appropriate situation... SB: CA: Right. ... to go ahead and cry. So, no.

SB: What makes her angry? CA: Um, I don't see her extremely angry. I think if she gets angry it's more as an injustice type thing. If someone is being taking advantage of. If she sees that someone is being taking advantage of she'll... she'll stand up and speak the right you know and speak up for that person. Especially if she sees someone that can fend for themselves. SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) She'll... she'll help out. And I kind of do that to if I see that someone you know maybe doesn't have the strength to speak up for them self I'll encourage them to and if they cant' then I'll speak up for them. I've done that in public with a stranger if I see someone's being taken advantage of I'll stop some and say, you know you rally shouldn't take advantage of that person... I've done that. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: And I have no problem with it. And I think Casey learned from example. I don't know.

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What makes her sad? You know sad movie um, people, if someone else's is sad. You know if you can't bring 'em.. cheer them up um, naturally loss of you know someone you love. Um, she gets sad watching TV you know. If you see the news and you see you know like hurricane Katrina I mean that's very moving. That's make anybody sad. I mean I don't..

CA:

SB: CA: SB: CA:

Right. Just the normal thing. The normal stuff. The normal stuff. What makes her happy? Pretty much the normal stuff. Um, coming home sitting down talking to family. Family time? Family time. Being with her daughter. Talking to her friends. Just the typical stuff.

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SB: CA: SB: CA:

SB: CA:

Okay. Does she become bored easily? I don't know if she's ever had a time where she's had to be bored. I mean especially with Caylee in her life it's kind of hard not to be. Um, always something going on. If I look back prior to Caylee um, you know she was always working doing something, something to fill her time. Casey if she.. she didn't have time.. she didn't.. never had like I'm bored what do I do for excitement? She'd pick up a book and read a book. Or she'd draw a picture or she'd...

SB: CA:

Find something to do. She'd find something to do. I mean it wasn't one of those like sitting there like, woe is me I don't know what to do with myself. And I've seen people do that.

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SB: CA:

Right. Urn, but I've never, I've never known to be.. her to be like that.

SB: She ever have any addition that you know of? CA: No. And George and I.. I mean with out backgrounds I think we could pick up if we saw our children... I mean I would hope. I've never... SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ....see her go through withdrawals, I've never you know... Like I said I smell alcohol on her a couple of times, a couple of times she sat with me and had the wine cooler or something, but you no certainly no alcohol addiction, no smoking and I've never noticed (Inaudible)... SB: (Inaudible)... use or anything like that.

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CA: Yes. And it's very apparent she didn't go through withdrawals.. she was incarcerated so we'd a seen it. SB: CA: Yeah. Does she lie frequently? Well, up until... (laugh) (Inaudible)... over the last couple of months I guess yes. But up until then I had no really obvious you know, not frequently, periodically I'd catch her in something. SB: Why do you think that's changed? CA: SB: I'm not sure. I really... I really am not sure. Okay. Does she behave dramatically.. different depending on the environment that she's in? CA: SB: CA: I guess I would have to have... Or you think she's pretty steady? Yeah I... I mean I'm behaving differently in this situation then I normally do.
it's It's..

out of the normal situation. So..

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SB:
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Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: SB: But as far as like in her normal life she wasn't one person work and another person at home? CA: SB: CA: Not that I'm aware of, but I mean I.. Okay. I mean I did talk to her urn, two bosses at Color Vision and Kodak. Um, they told me she was a hard worker. She was very motivated and that's one of the things that I know of her. So, urn, the two mangers that I did speak with before urn, validated what.. what my image was of her.. have.. in her work. SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: Right. So.. Her verbal communication is it appropriate to the setting? I think so. Okay. I mean... You've never seen her out burst out.. inappropriately or had it reported back like you know in the middle of ..

CA: SB: CA: SB: CA:

No. ... in the middle of school start ... No. ...singing a song for no reason? No, no, no, I.. you know and she never had any behavior issues at school. In fact we never got called in on either of the kids. I mean would she flip someone off when she's driving or yeah say dumb ass..

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But that's appropriate time. (laugh) It's to me it's not ... It's not necessarily inappropriate. ... it's not appropriate really at this day and age with road rage that people would, if they saw you yell at 'em they might follow you. But no I mean most people would said it's an appropriate thing. My husband does and I'll say that they're a dumb ass or something too. But I'm not gonna flip 'ern a bird you know the bird and ...

CA: SB: CA:

SB:

Draw anymore attention to yourself. ...draw anymore attention to it. And I'm always the one saying, don't do that honey because you never know this day and age you might get shot. So, no I've never seen her have a outburst that was... Unless you know I mean if, if someone's asking an opinion she would say her opinion. But if someone had a different opinion she wouldn't disagree with 'ern. She appreciated their opinion.

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SB: Yeah. When she expresses thoughts they make sense? CA: Yeah. I've never known her not to. Until the other day. SB: Will she accept responsibility for her actions?

CA: I've never seen her not. But I never seen her in a situation where she was you know didn't own up if I caught her in a lie she owned up to it. Urn, I've never seen her in a position where you know that ... SB: CA: SB: CA: Outside of the current situation you haven't seen her in some.. I've never seen... ...situation.. Absolutely not. I mean this is the first..

SB: Have you ever known her to experience guilt or remorse over her actions?

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CA:

Urn, I've never seen it.. I mean I think we all feel guilty in our life about different things. My husband and I feel guilty that we didn't notice things earlier. But you can't do that to yourself. So, I can't say that she didn't feel guilty or remorse about something in her life. But it wasn't evident.

SB: CA:

Nothing that stands out. Nothing evident about anything. Um, I mean I could sit back here and play out the last six months feel guilty and pick myself apart. But...

SB:

Let's.. let's ask, I'll ask one question it's kind of specific to what we're talking about here in the last two weeks that you've been having contact with her where she is now. Has she expressed any guilt or remorse over the situation?

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CA: SB: CA:

No guilt. And all she's worried about is Caylee's wellbeing. I mean it's... Okay. I don't see any remorse because I don't.. I don't see it from her because I don't think she feels like there's anything that she's done. She maintains that Caylee was taken from her. I mean I haven't seen... I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe that she has anything to do with this.

SB: CA: SB:

Right. Has.. what are her attitudes towards law enforcement? I don't think she disrespects them at all. I think she just feels like ... To.. forget.. Okay I want...

CA: Okay.. SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: Let me qualify the question. Prior to this... Forget prior to this. ....very respectful. Right.

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CA:

Very respectful. I mean the only time I ever known her to be pulled over she had a ticket one time. She was coming home she had a friend with her that collaborated this. Her taillight burned out on her way home. The guy was behind her and gave her a ticket. He saw it go out and he gave her a ticket. And she like, what the heck are you talking about? You saw it go out. My husband took care of it, but it was one of those.. that was the only thing like, are you kidding me? But no very respectful. I mean urn, you know they always had the officers at the schools. You know both my son and my daughter were very friendly with the officers at the schools. You know they urn, would attend all of their meets and things like that, track meets, attend the games, the kids were always... So, I mean she had always respect for urn, authority.

SB: CA:

Okay. Right now it's a little bit changed she just feels like she's being railroaded and I'm not sure she isn't.

SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA:

We know. I'm sorry. You can't.. No. That's my opinion of it. No. My opinion.. That's alright. ....of certain people have changed. I have the utmost respect for authority, but my opinion of a certain judge and my opinion of a couple of police officers right now are in question.

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SB: CA: SB: CA:

Okay. But overall authority to the police. I have the utmost respect, but again it's just... Well, right now there's no doubt that's she's being vilified in the media. Exactly so, and who... you know part of it is you know they hear what they hear and they're trying to get...

SB: CA: SB: CA:

There's.. They're trying to get their story out and... Yeah and, and what people hear in the media is... (sigh) It's not right. ...their perception. I know. And although perceptions aren't necessarily true they are in the minds of the people...

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SB:

CA: SB: CA: SB:

I know. ....that are perceive it. I know. So, um, is there any other additional information about... I mean you've been pretty clear in our answers here that on.. where you see Casey being as a person. You had anything else you want say about...

CA:

I've always thought that she was a very adjusted child. That she was um, you know that she was focused. That she did have goals you know. I've never met al the goals that I ever wanted to meet.

SB:

How... I'll ask a personal question, you don't have to answer if you don't want to. How did she handle when she found out she was pregnant?

24 25

CA:

I'm not real sure because I'm not real sure um...

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SB:
2

(Inaudible)...

CA: The day that she... SB: This.. this already.. Right. By the way this is... The day that... ... different question.

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CA: SB: CA: SB:

CA: ...she told me I knew she was further along and I had asked her a couple of times and she denied it. I'm not sure if she did 'cause she was afraid. SB: U h-hu h. (Affirmative)

CA: Of what we would were gonna say or do. But the day she told me it was like, okay let's go tell your dad and we'll start fixing up the computer room for a nursery. So, I.. I think she was overwhelmed and afraid. I think she tried to hide it for a while until she couldn't hide it anymore. SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) She's a little girl. And even when I started to get suspicious I backed off 'cause I figured she's gonna tell me when she's ready. There's no point in beating her up over it. I mean if she's already pregnant it's not something you're gonna turn back and there's never a question that we were gonna not let her have the baby or she did not want to have the baby. So... SB: Was there ever any hesitancy on her part that you're aware of regarding having the baby? CA: No not at all there was never a doubt that she was not gonna have the baby. Um...

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SB:
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The values that she grew up with urn, regarding abortion and other things. How would she view it?

CA: SB: CA:

Her and I both believe in abortion. Would it be an option? Her and I both believe in abortion. I strongly believe in abortion for certain circumstances.

SB: CA:

Right. Urn, but there was never a question that that was what she was gonna do. She would.. that...

SB: CA:

She wasn't gonna do that? She wasn't gonna do it there was never a question that that's something that she even thought of. That was..

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SB: CA: SB: CA:

So, so the issue of having the child wasn't a point of contention amongst ... Not at all. ...family or ... Not at all because the day that she came to me I was actually at my work and she urn, said, I want to talk to you. And you know I went into.. I stepped out of my office and we went outside it was not hot it was urn, you know it wasn't that bad when we went outside. We talked and when she told me I just hugged her and I said, well I guess I'm gonna be a young grandma and you know it was right away it was like it's gonna be okay we're gonna get through it. And it was reassurance and there was no questions ever in either of our minds that we weren't gonna support her and she was ever thought about not having urn, Caylee.

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Would it, would it surprise you and I'm not saying that this is true. Because of what's happened in other cases like this. Would it surprise you if there were friends out there who said that she viewed Caylee as an obstacle to her life?

CA:

I never saw it.

SB: Okay. CA: I never heard her say those words. SB: Any friends ever express anything to you about that? CA: No. SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: And I'm not saying that she has because I haven't.. No. ..that. No. But this is kind of some things with young girls.. All, all of he friends... ....on situations like this. ....were happy for her and very excited. In fact her best friend now is pregnant and she's unmarried. And they were all excited for her. And it.. I don't.. we didn't see her as an obstacle we saw her as a blessing. SB: Right.

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CA: And I... I never saw that in Casey's eyes for ever once that she... SB: CA: Okay. ... put a hindrance. And the other thing is that was the other thing about having her home. I never questioned where she was. 'Cause I enjoyed taking care of Caylee when she wasn't there. So, Casey knew she could go.. come and go as she pleased and do what want. We never put rules and restrictions on the kids.

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As they got to be 18 we never did that. We put rules and restrictions on up to then. Lee lived at home until he was 23 years old. That's a long time for a boy to live... for a young man to live... SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... in the house. And urn, you know so there was no rules and regulations. I mean they knew I worried about 'em and I.. you know if they didn't come home and... I always wondered why my mom would.. could never go to sleep until you come home. And I.. there was nights I didn't get home until 3 or 4 in the

morning. You know and I was in nursing school and I wondered why my mom didn't go to bed. She said, you just can't sleep, you can lay down, but you can't sleep. Um, but I never questioned where she went and if she wanted to go hangout she could. I just enjoyed having Caylee and so did my husband so, it wasn't, it was never like you can't do this so you have to stay home and watch Caylee 'cause we're not watching her. SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: Right. So, I don't think there was any ever pressure that she felt like you know... Okay. So. That's comforting. Yeah. And that's.. that's why.. that's... that's part of the reason I truly never saw Caylee as a burden to Casey. Casey.. it was always me saying Casey.. Caylee needs to sleep in her own bed. Just no Casey wanted her close to her. She wanted to be with her. You know urn, Casey did breast feed Caylee and that's when she started bringing her in it was easier... And she has a queen size bed by the way in her bedroom.

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SB:
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Uh-huh. (Affirmative) So, it's not like it's on a you know on a twin bed. Little bitty twin bed. Right. I mean so she has a um, a decent size bed and always very careful. Made sure the bed was up against the wall, lined with those big pillows those big sleep pillows. I have one that ...

CA: SB: CA:

SB: CA:

Yeah. I have one body pillow. We have three of 'ern in her room where she has 'em lined up so that Caylee couldn't fall through the cracks and everything like that. And she had a little one of those little urn, nursing pillows that she would keep so that Caylee when she was little would not be so she could roll over on her. I mean she was always very protective of her.

SB: CA:

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Urn, that's why all of this doesn't make sense. I mean there was never a red flag. Urn, you know nothing out of the ordinary, no bruises that weren't something you know something that I didn't see Caylee do herself. Urn, and that's kind of.. You know they did ask us a week ago Monday if there was.. on Monday when the deputies came over when Sergeant Allen and Melich came over. Told us that they were gonna testify the next day at the bond hearing. And they asked us if we 'd ever seen any bruises on Caylee and I said, absolutely. I mean I saw her take a big dive one time where she jumped off her bed. We have a little picnic table in her bedroom where she sits and she has a ...

SB:

Yeah.

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CA:

... picnic with her stuffed animals. Well, she jumped off the bed and cracked herself right here. And she had a scab and believe me I felt terrible when Casey came home I'm going, honest to God Casey....

SB: CA: SB: CA:

(laugh) ....I swear to God... Didn't do anything. (laugh) ....didn't do anything this is what Caylee did and I felt so bad. And Casey knows Caylee likes to climb, she likes to do you know and the last bruise that I... I knew

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that she had before urn, urn, before urn, she... I haven't seen her before her disappearance. Urn, was faded, but urn, it was the height of the computer desk. Urn, and Caylee likes to climb up on the computer chair and she likes to play on the keyboard even when the computer's not turned on. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: And typically we keep the door shut. Urn, Casey was in the computer room and Caylee was in there. And Casey had just gotten off and Caylee was still facing her mom and believe it or not we have one Yorkie that's this big and we have one that's this big. The mommy is this one. SB: (laugh)

CA: The daughter Tilly's this big she's about 12 to14 pounds. About the size of my old Cocker Spaniel was. Tilly constantly stepping on Caylee, she loves her. She jumped on her, pushed her and the corner of the thing. But it was pin point it was no bigger... then probably this. SB: Yeah. CA: Right there. So, to me that's not abuse it anybody saw that bruise because it'd be pretty hard to do that to someone...

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SB: CA:

(laugh) ....if you're abusing them. Usually if you see a bruise.. I've seen abused children and so has my husband.

SB: Oh yeah. CA: Urn, you're gonna see marks that are unexplainable things like that. And the other thing is Casey and Cay... Casey did the same thing with Caylee that I did. A bath every morning and a bath at bedtime and any time in between that was necessary. It was a normal occurrence, you get up in the morning they get a bath or a shower in the morning. Especially when they were diapers and Caylee was almost potty trained. I mean she was you know almost potty trained but still wore the urn, the diaper at night. SB: CA: Pull ups. Pull up at night. But she using Pull ups during the day, but almost a hundred percent potty trained. Because there was a lot of nights... SB: How was that process? CA: She's doing very well. I mean at night a couple of nights I mean she was getting to the point where she didn't pee at night in the, in the potty... but or in her training pants. Urn, but it was always you know wash her bottom get her washed up, you know get her you know fresh in the morning. I did that with my kids from the day they born bath in the morning and bath at night until they were completely out of diapers. Just because you know you can't just wipe 'em down with one of those wipes. And I'm not real happy with the wipes either I'd rather just have good old fashion soap and water. Get all that Destin and stuff off and start fresh again. And then naturally anytime during the day if they were out

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playing or whatever you know wash 'em up or throw 'em in the tub. If we're going out somewhere and you want... SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... clean up. But that was ritual. So, we.. you know that was always what we did. So, you're constantly seeing that child at least twice a day besides changing diapers or whatever. To make sure that there's.. if you.. you're seeing 'ern totally naked then you're making sure there's no bruises or ant bites or something like that. SB: CA: SB: Right. So. Was there any frustration expressed by Casey regarding potty training and stuff like that CA: No actually not Caylee was doing very well. Caylee was very bright and we had urn, a potty in the main bathroom where Casey and Caylee used and we had one in George and my bathroom. 'Cause Caylee's always busting into our bathroom and wanting to sit while we're in there either taking a shower or so I gibe her a crayons and I had, I had coloring books and crayons in my bathroom so that she could sit there and color. But no it was going very well. SB: I want to take another break.

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CA: Okay. SB: And then I want to do one more thing. CA: Okay. SB: And it's not gonna be as hard as this one. But it might take a little bit time. want to start at the beginning from when Casey left the house. CA: Okay.
I

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SB: And the last time you saw Caylee and then just do a little time line with me.
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CA: Okay. SB: And as much as we can I know we've gone over some of the dates and we'll go back... CA: Yeah. SB: ....and we'll look at what we've already...

CA: Okay. SB: ....said. And then and then outside of advice and recommendation we'll be done.

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SB: CA: SB: CA:

Is that alright? Uh-huh. (Affirmative) If I run to use the restroom again? Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

SM: You need to use the restroom or you need anything? CA: No I'm good right now I think my body's just absorbing the water. That's' why it hasn't.. SB: CA: I'll be right back. ...further. I'm gonna get rid of this (Inaudible)... stuff.

(Agents break left room) CA: SM CA: Is there a garbage can over there. These weren't all that great. Here I'll (Inaudible)... I mean if...

SM: That's fine. CA: I would've ate 'em but they were kind of hard.

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(Agent returned) CA: How long.. I didn't even realize on this piece of paper this is one of the things that was working through the events planning. SM: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) CA: Place that she said she had been working at this last urn, 6 months to a year. Juliet Lewis is the person that we talked about that had Annabel you know the baby that... Right. ....was also being urn, nannied by this or you know what a child that this person had watched.

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8 SM:
9

CA:

10

11 SM: At the person's house.


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CA:

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) So..

SM: And this is Casey's address right? CA: Yes that is her Case.. that is Casey's address. Caseymarie@yahoo.com . SM: Do you know any of the other ones? CA: Huh-ah. (Negative)

SM: Okay. CA: I heard her talk about Manny, I heard her talk about urn, Gabby, I heard her talk about Cheryl all the time. But I never met any of them. And I never met Jewel.. Juliet Lewis. SM: CA: Juliet. But I heard her talk about Juliet all the time and they were gonna eventually get together with the girls and have play dates and come over and things like that. And Casey said Juliet had moved a couple months ago. So.. SM: Waiting for Torn to get back he was returning phone calls.

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CA:

Yeah. Since they just never stopped coming in. I turned my off. Juliet Lewis' mother Maria Lewis um, Casey had given me a phone number for her at one time. And I found out that that phone number.. was actually JP's number. And I'm not sure who JP is. JP I believe is the other person that went to Puerto Rico with Ricardo and urn.. Amy. ...Amy. If he didn't he's a really good friend of theirs JP hangs out with Ricardo and Amy. And I thought that was kind... So... ...strange that the number that we had for Juliet's mother, Lee found out is actually JP. And he probably knows more who JP is then I do. Um, which I thought that was kind of weird.

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CA:

CA:

CA:

SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB:

Okay. The other thing I... JP is a guy or girl? I think it's a guy. I'm almost a hundred percent sure it was a guy. What was the number? Urn, the number is 407... Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ....or 719... Okay. ...1759. Alright. And JP may have gone to Puerto Rico?

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CA:
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Yeah there was three of 'em that went to Puerto Rico. Urn, I want to say it was JP it could've been Troy, but I know for sure it was Amy and Ricardo that went to Puerto Rico. And they were all there at time but they all took separate flights, which I thought was really strange. Why would you go on the same day and takes separate flights? I mean that's just odd.

SB: CA: SB: CA:

Yeah. I would.. if you're booking in advance book two seats together and take I mean.. It would make sense. (laugh) I mean I wouldn't want to fly if my friends are going I'd want to fly with them I mean who wants to fly by themselves?

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SB: CA:

Yeah. I mean Ricardo's explanation is that he was coming in late flying in from his.. seeing his mom.

SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB:

Mom. That made sense. But I just don't know why ... JP and (Inaudible)... Yeah if it was JP I mean I... Whoever it was. I'm pretty sure it was JP. Alright, now we're gonna go back to, when did Caylee and, and I'm gonna play completely dumb with you.

CA: SB: CA: SB:

Okay no problem. Okay. 'Cause I don't know all the specific dates I know that... You want to know the last time we saw her. Yeah. We'll start with the last time you saw them.

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CA:
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Okay. And approximately what day? The last day that I physically saw them even though I knew they were in the house on the morning of the 16 th of June with I went ...

SB: CA:

SB: CA:

Okay. ...to work. The last physical day that I spent with them and put both of them to bed I would say is, um, the 15 th.

SB: CA:

Of June. Of June. George saw them leave on the 16 th . Get up in the morning do a normal day. Caylee's normal bag, Casey packed her normal bag for work that had extra change of clothes in it. I mean normal day, bye dad I'll see you later. Um, and this was I think he said sometime between like um, 12:50 to 1 o'clock somewhere in that time frame. He usually leaves to go to work around 2 you know at that time.

SB: CA:

Okay. So, it was about a hour before he went to work. And he remembers watching some.. something on the Food Network that you know he recalls the time. `Cause he likes to, he likes to watch those guys eat those hot dogs and hamburgers and (Inaudible)...

SB: CA:

(laugh) (laugh) But anyway he's starting to learn how to cook a little bit. He likes to watch that now.

SB: CA:

Okay. So.. so on this 16 th they left. And truthfully I thought it was the 8 th . Because the video that ya'll ... if you've seen any of the video that Caylee's reading that book. I shot that and I thought I

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1
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was confused. I truly thought that that was the week of urn, I was on vacation the week of June 2nd through June
8th,

which was a Sunday. I know that for a fact

'cause I was off my birthday, my birthday was June 5, which was a Thursday of that week. And I remember seeing my dad that week, but I got confused I didn't even think of Father's Day. I could've said it was Father's Day if I realized what Father's Day was the 15th and that's the day I went to see my dad. And took Caylee with me. But I see my dad almost every week until this happened you know. You know.. SB: The 15th was a Sunday right? CA: SB: Fifteenth was a Sunday. So... Father's Day.

10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

CA: Yeah I just found out a week ago Monday that it was actually the 15 th and not the
8th

like I had thought because it you know I guess when they checked the urn,

card on the on the inside my camera it said the 15th . SB: Okay.

CA: And they asked me if it could've been and I said well it could've been I assumed it was the 8th. 'Cause I thought it was the last Sunday before I went back to work, but I was mistaken it was the other. SB: It was the 15th .

CA: So, I mean you know.. yeah. And George saw her on the 16 th like I said leaving. SB: Okay.

CA: And her deal was she had said she was headed off to work for a few hours and she was gonna drop Caylee off at Zanny's the baby sitter's and gonna pick her up and.. plan was to be back later that night. But I had gotten a phone call, God I don't know what point in the evening, and said that urn, she had a lot going on.

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1616

And that she wasn't gonna come home they were gonna crash at Zanny's that
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

night her and Caylee were gonna just stay at Zanny's. And then that kind of happened the next couple of days. And then on the 18th was the day she said they were going to Hard Rock Hotel and I asked why. I said, you now it's not that far to go, but she said they were having a convention there. SB: CA: So, June 17th , we're gonna say... Seventeenth, 16th and 17th they actually were crashing at the babysitters what she said. So, it was Monday and Tuesday. SB: Okay.

CA: The 18th she said that the baby sitter, which was Zanny, and her and Juliet and the two girls and the baby sitter's roommate. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

CA: Zanny's roommate were gonna... were staying at Hard Rock Hotel. And from my understanding what she was saying is they were staying there till Friday. And then they transferred on Friday, which would've been what the 20 th? No. SB: See, 15th , is Sunday m Monday, Tuesday...

CA: Wednesday, Thursday... yeah the 20th . SB: Wednesday. CA: Was Friday. They went to um Busch Gardens and I want to ... SB: So, they stayed there thel 8th and the 19th they were at Hard Rock? CA: Yes and then the 20 th she said they went to Busch Gardens to the hotel there. And I'm almost positive I can't say a hundred percent but I think she said it was a Marriott. SB: Okay.

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1 CA:
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

But don't quote me as that a complete fact. But I'm pretty sure that's what she said was the Marriott.

SB: Okay. CA: And they were supposed to wrap things up that Saturday morning. But she said it extended into Sunday morning. And then they decided when they finish Sunday instead of coming home what she told me is they were gonna just gonna stay there and enjoy the park. Because... SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ....Zanny and her roommate were taking the girls to the park. Going to see the animals and different things like that. SB: That was Saturday? CA: That was Saturday and then on Sunday all.. all of 'em the urn, Zanny the baby sitter, Casey and Juliet and the two little girls were gonna enjoy the day together. And then.. SB: So, 21 st they stayed at Busch Gardens? The 22 nd they were staying there also?

CA: Yes and then on Monday was what the 23 rd then I guess. SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) If we're following this chronologically. On the 23 rd is the day that Casey said they were corning back. I didn't get to talk to her till late in the afternoon that day.
It

was probably... I think I called her on my way home from work so probably between 5:30 and 6... no maybe yeah about 5:30. Because it's my early day, early day I start at 8, at 8 and I work till 5, but a lot of times I don't get out of there till 5:20 or so. My late days I have to stay till 5:30. But it's usually 6 or so before I get out of there. SB: Right.

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CA: I mean you have to you know stay there answer the phone and do whatever. But
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

it usually takes me another half hour to clear my desk and get everything put away. SB: Yeah. CA: So, I.. I'm pretty sure it was around 5:30 when I talked to her on the phone. And she apologized for not calling me 'cause I left a message probably with her earlier in the day. Wanting to know if they were on their way home. 'Cause originally she said they were gonna be in early in the morning probably by noon anyway at the very latest. And she was supposed to call me when they got in. And I had.. I think I called George and asked if they'd gotten in and he said, no he hadn't heard from her all day. So, I called so I was a little concerned, plus I'm used to calling her on my drive home. SB: Drive home.

CA: And she, I left her a voice mail and she called me back and she was all upset. She said that Zanny and her roommate had got into an accident and they had taken the girls to.. you know the girls in the car to Tampa General. Well actually she said to the hospital and I volunteered, well is it Tampa General. Because they ... she said they'd just gotten on the interstate from um, in.. from 700.. onto 75. And that um, you know Casey and um, Juliet were like 8 cars behind and witnessed the accident. And they all pulled over and then followed the paramedics to. And supposedly her... SB: On 1-4? CA: She said 75 they'd just gotten on 75. So, I don't know if they'd gotten... I'm not sure if she... SB: Okay.

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1
2

CA:

Either on 75 a little bit before you hit 1-4 I think you are. I haven't been over Busch Gardens for years. I mean it's probably been..

SB: You can you can come out either way.


4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

CA: Yeah. SB: CA: You can get on 1-4... But I think it... I think she said 75. Um, I could be mistaken on that. I just know she was there.. um, she said she was going to the hospital... or she was at the hospital and I asked where Caylee was at that time. And she said sh... that they.. that Juliet took the two girls back Annabel and Caylee back to the hotel and got a room, their room again. Went back to the same hotel and checked back in because it didn't look like Zanny was going home that night. She said that urn, her... SB: CA: Juliet. Juliet took the girls back to the hotel while Casey stayed um, at the hospital with Zanny. SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: So, the girls that we're talking about are Caylee and Annabel? Caylee and Annabel. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And urn, supposedly ... That would've been the Marriott right? Yeah that's what I think she said... (Inaudible)... ...was the Marriott. I'm pretty sure she said the Marriott. Urn, and again if I really would've thought it was a red flag I would've really paid attention, but I didn't think... SB: That's alright.

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CA:

.... it was. You know I mean your memory tries to get better when things you know are pertinent. Urn...

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

SB: So, they stayed in Tampa again on the 23rd? CA: Yeah. And evidently roommate's mother was coming from again Jacksonville. Was another Jacksonville connection. Urn, to be with Zanny's roommate and Zanny's sister couldn't come to see her that day. And I was a little.. I told her that I thought you know that Zanny's an adult she's fine, but she said no mom she's got a concussion and I really don't want to leave her, she's my friend. SB: She stayed in the hospital with her?

10 CA: She stayed at the hospital she said with her. And she said she would go back 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

and forth checking on the on urn, Caylee. 'Cause I said, well you know I hate to see Caylee... I said why don't let me come get her and bring her home and then you can go back. And she said she really didn't want to you know.. she said it be better you'd have to take off work and all that. I said I don't really care you know at that point. But I let her go I mean it was her decision to keep Caylee there. She said Juliet was entertaining the girls and Casey.. Caylee was having fun 'cause she was playing with her friend and stuff. So, it was pretty reasonable story to (Inaudible)... you know to understand. Urn, so on the 24 th , she said just as they were getting ready to leave Zanny she.. you know let her.. release her that morning. 'Cause they kept her over night looking for concussion. Evidently Zanny started having more complications. She started complaining of her ribs hurting and things like that. She said that she punctured her lung, fractured her rib, but she didn't fully clasped the lung so they had kept her overnight again so she was still there on urn... SB: And did her mom come in?

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CA: SB CA:

...on the 25th . Did she say her mom got there? Well, Zanny's mom was supposed to been ill. Had, had mini strokes or something like that. Her sister said she.. she said her sister finally came in on the 24th . No nobody came on the 23rd for Zanny. And the 24 th I think she said her, Zanny's sister came in. Brought her mom, but didn't bring her mom's medicines because you know urn, after the stroke I guess she was blood pressure medicines and probably blood thinner whatever. Thought she was gonna be released, but when she wasn't released her sister took her mom back home. So, Casey felt obligated to stay again. And I said, you know it's really the family's obligation to stay there Casey not yours, you're obligated to your daughter. So, I did have a couple of words with her that day and said, you know..

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SB: CA:

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... I think your choice of.. your loyalty to your friends maybe take a little bit priority to your daughter. She says, but mom Caylee's fine you know Juliet's taking care of her, but Caylee's fine. I have to look out for my friend. So, you know I didn't... I didn't challenge her on that because I don't know how I would react if I was in that situation too. You know if you see someone by their self and then this goes back to Cay...

SB: CA:

Well, where was her roommate though? The roommate the mom had already taken her. The roommate was released.. the mom that came up from Jacksonville took her and took her back home. I guess they...

SB:

Oh so it wasn't Zanny's mom that was coming from Jacksonville?

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CA:

No it was the roommate's mom, I'm sorry if you got that. Zanny's mom came with Zanny's sister on the 24 th And...

SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA:

Okay. ....this.. so from what Casey said urn... We don't know where they were coming from? This., from this Orlando area um... Okay. And Casey stated that at that time that they couldn't stay when they realized that Zanny wasn't going home that Julie... or that her sister had to take her back because her mom needed to get her medicine and she also had to go to class. And I thought that's kind of strange that someone needed to go to class when their sister was in the hospital.

SB: CA: SB: CA:

Right. I ... That was a question that I had. Right. Didn't make sense, but I didn't push it because again you know if she was taking her mom she'd still have to look in on her mom. And from what I had heard of Zanny for months and months that Zanny was the one that looked in on her mom a lot because her mom had been ill. Casey told me several occasions that Zanny's mom had been in and out of the hospital. What hospital I don't know. Um, so something's a .. you know..

SB: CA: SB: CA:

Now on the 24th is the roommate still in the hospital? No the 24.. the roommate was released on the 23rd with her mother. Okay. It's just Zanny that stayed over night.

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SB: And the roommate is a female?


2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

CA: Yes. That's what she said, roommate was a female. SB: Name Jennifer? CA: Jennifer wasn't the one in the accident she said it was Raquel. She.. Zanny ha two roommates Raquel. SB: Raquel.

CA: Raquel and Jennifer. And Raquel was the one that she said was in the accident. Again I don't know if this is all fa.. you know anything to do with the clues or not. Or you know I know it's not true because she obviously wasn't over at Jacksonville.. Or I mea over in um, Tampa. So, from my understanding on... SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: She stayed, she stayed until... She stayed through the 20th... ...the 24th . She definitely stayed the 24 th because ... According to her.

CA: Yes because of the urn, concussion she was vomiting and she started developing some issues breathing and they found out that she had a punctured urn, lung, but it wasn't fully collapsed. So, they.. she stayed even through the 25th and was released on the 26 th , which is Thursday. And urn, Jennifer had flown in this was something that she said that her roommate Jennifer had just flown in urn, from California or some.. SB: Who., whose roommate Jennifer? CA: Zanny's roommate Jennifer. Zanny has... SB: Okay that's the roommate that..

CA: Yes.

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SB:

....been in the accident with her?

CA: No. SB: She has two roommates. CA: She has two roommates. SB: Okay.

CA: Which I never heard that before, all of this. There was two roommates. SB: So, on the 25th, we're still in the hospital?

CA: Yes. SB: And Juliet is still with the kids at the hotel.

CA: Still with the kids at the hotel. And Casey's going back and forth you know checking on 'em, having dinner. Once in a while Juliet would go to the hospital and Casey would be the friends. But for the most part Juliet was taking care of um... SB: The two kids. CA: ..the two kids. So, I'm wondering.. I don't know. Anyway I wonder of JP's.. if Juliet and JP are the same because since he had the number, phone number. I mean these guys were all friends. So, anyway um, on the 26 th from what I remember Casey saying was that Zanny was finally released from the hospital. And Jennifer was the one going to take Zanny home. It was very late that night on the 26th . So, what they decided to do Zanny and Jennifer went to the hotel and stayed with Casey and Juliet and the girls. And then they all were coming home Friday morning, which was the 27th . And truthfully that sounded kind of reasonable to because if it was late at night why drive back. The girls been through a lot. They have a hotel room, she said it was a double room anyway and they had plenty of room. So, they all stayed there. Casey called me on the

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27th , sometime in the afternoon said that they were back in Orlando. That Juliet and her had a meeting because her boss all that week said that they knew what was going on. Knew why Juliet and them didn't have to go to work. And she.. they were suppose to drive right from... excuse me, Tampa right directly to... SB: What excuse was.... CA: SB: ... Universal. ....Juliet using just that she was taking care of the kids while her friends ...

8 CA: Yes.
9

SB:

....were in the hospital?

10 CA: Yes.
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SB:

Okay.

CA: Yes. SB: So, on the 27th they're back in Orlando?

CA: They're back in Orlando. And she said that urn, she had to go for that meeting. She had a conference call and they had to catch up on all the stuff that they had done the week that they did in Tampa that they didn't get to catch up with because she was ... SB: She was gone. Okay. CA: She was gone. And ... SB: About what, what was the... did she describe what the meeting was about? CA: It was about urn, the upcoming events between Busch Gardens and Universal. I don't know what that meant, but Casey was urn, an event planner. I mean she showed me emails of stuff back and forth from... In fact urn, Lee gave Detective Melich some emails that I had found corresponding back and forth. I think I don't know if they were in May, but I know they were April too. You know April just like

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8

these were back and forth from um, her boss Thomas. And I'm not sure why she... SB: Were they recent emails ? I mean...

CA: Yeah. SB: CA: SB: ... how... Like.. ...time-wise like in within this period of time?

CA: No. SB: Or near it? Like I said they were either May or April. I'm talking about you know pretty much the same thing. SB: CA: SB: Same kind of stuff? Same kind of stuff, setting up events and things like that. Okay.

10 CA:
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

CA: Casey said she was doing some contract work with Hard Rock Caf um, oh events on the battle... or getting bands and things like that. And a lot of that stuff was being done over in Tampa. Urn, Casey told me that he boss' name urn, in the event planning subcontracting thing. I'm not sure if it's called... the guys have it. Urn, Lee knows what it is, Eastern Event Coordinating or something like that. So, I don't know what it is, but Thomas Frank was the name of the employer that she said or her immediate boss. And I don't know why she told Detective Melich.. In his report he said that Casey said that it was Tom

Matheson or Tom Manley and she always told me it was Tom Frank. So, I don't know if shhh... I don't know why she was you know not forthcoming on that or if he wrote it wrong or what I don't know I can't answer that question. But on the

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27th which was that Friday, which I now know is the first day that the car was abandoned. She told me that she had met up with Jeff. Jeff was in town. SB: CA: So, what time was her meeting did she tell you? She... I think it was sometime late afternoon they got in 2, 3 or later on the afternoon and she said that urn, Jennifer was gonna watch the kids. Zanny's roommate because Zanny had the concussion couldn't watch. So, Jennifer was gonna watch the girls while Juliet and them went to the meeting. She said she was just gonna take 'em at the park. And I thought it was kind of weird that they didn't take.. didn't go home with all of this. She said no they were just gonna go ahead. And then she said that when she found out that Jeff was in town. I'm gonna remind you that Jeff was the person that urn, introduced Zanny to Casey. SB: CA: SB: CA: Introduced Zanny to Casey? Yes. Okay. That's what she stating. Urn, she had stated that urn, God over two years ago, 2 1/2 years ago when she first stated talking with Zanny. That Zanny was Jeff's girlfriend and Jeff had his son you know that was a year older then Caylee. And that Zanny had taken care of Jeff's urn, son. SB: CA: Son. And if she ever needed a baby sitter that Zanny you know could watch Caylee as well. And that started maybe within a couple of months later that Zanny was ... SB: She started using Zanny? She started using Zanny as a baby sitter. And urn, when she first talked about Zanny and Jeff they had, they lived in the same apartment complex. She said somewhere over in UCF area. Apartment complex over there. And then Zanny

CA:

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moved over toward the Conway area. And then Jeff got a house over in Andover
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Lakes, which I never knew where Jeff lived. But she said he bought a house over in Andover Lakes. SB: Did she say what Jeff did?

CA: Yeah Jeff was IT person a computer geek and he worked on things like at Nickelodeon studios and Universal Studios. And Heather that person that called me the other day that worked with Casey does remember a Jeff from the IT UM, thing that Casey.. that she actually met. So, there is.. again remember I said, Jeff she had him... SB: There's lots of Jeffs that work in lots of places.

10

11 CA: Yeah another thing is she had Jeff in her cell phone as equals boyfriend.
12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SB: CA: SB:

Right. So, I'm not sure if she's using Jeff's name as a reference to the current boyfriend. Okay.

CA: You know just like Zanny for the baby sitter. Um, so when Casey called me and said Jeff was in town. Jeff was someone that Casey urn, after her and Jessie had you know cut off their engagement. Urn, just.. that happened I think in June before Caylee's first birthday. Um, she became friends with Jeff. She had met Jeff through work and everything. And I guess there was some kind of connection. And about the three months or so after her and Jessie broke up her and Jeff kind of connected. Zanny and him were just friends at that time is what she said, and they kind became... SB: So, what was she gonna do on the night of the 27th , with Jeff? CA: Get the kids together 'cause Caylee and Zachary hadn't seen each other for several months. Last I knew Jeff had urn, moved from Orlando to Jacksonville

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somewhere around between November and December. Um, from this the
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

background information on Jeff um, he came from a wealthy family. He has an older sister who just had a baby urn, not too long ago. And his mom had had breast cancer. And evidently his morn was.. had.. had um, another bout with breast cancer and his mom urn, was going up to Jacksonville to some of the hospitals up; there and receiving treatments and that's why he had been staying up there. So, she wouldn't see him from Dec... probably about December on. They had kept in touch and stuff from what you know she had told me. And ... SB: From December of '07 through current times?

10 CA: Yes. And so that's when she started telling me that she was hanging out with
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Jeff. And then actually Zanny and Jeff were with her and Caylee. Zanny.. I said Zanny feels up to it? She goes, oh yeah she wanted to see Jeff 'cause they're friends, and so you know she.. they were just kind hanging out. And urn, Casey told me that she was hanging out with Jeff from that Friday night until Monday morning. I think Monday was the 30 th , 'cause that was my mom and dad's anniversary. SB: So, where was she staying? CA: Hard Rock Hotel. So, went back to Hard Rock Hotel. SB: CA: So, from the.. on the twen... stayed at... on the 27th , they stayed at Hard Rock? Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Till the 30 th , was what she told me. And then she told me on the 30th Jeff was going back to Jacksonville and.. she was coming back home, they never came back home that day. SB: She had 29 th CA: Through the 30th , which was.. which was Monday morning. All during this time she talks about ...

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SB: Thirtieth was Monday morning where did she stay Monday morning? CA: I don't know I was at work. She told me that she was gonna come home and then later that night urn, when we were speaking she said she had to stay late at work and that Jennifer was gonna start watching Caylee because Zanny couldn't. Jennifer would urn... SB: So, Zanny was okay to take care and go party with the friends, but she wasn't to watch the kids. CA: Well they weren't really partying they were hanging out at the hotel. SB: Okay. CA: Visiting that kind of thing you know so it wasn't like she couldn't pick up the kids or do anything, but they could sit around and just... SB: Okay. CA: ... kind of catch up is what she describe it. Get the kids together, have some dinner sit around the pool and just kind of catch up. And that sounded you know like you know if one of my old friends had come in and I wanted to see I'd probably would've done the same thing. It just kind of made sense. I didn't.. it was not a red flag. Urn, but on the 30 th Casey said that she was supposed to come home, she was supposed to have a couple of days off. But she said later that day she had to take Caylee... and George you know never saw her come home. Had to take Caylee back to Zanny's house and Jennifer had to watch her because Zanny urn, you know couldn't watch her. I mean she could be there, but couldn't lift her or do physical stuff with her because of her ribs. But maintained that she was in that house with Zanny and her roommate. SB: So, she stayed late working then she went back to Zanny's house?

8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

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CA:

Yes and that happened again until we got to the 3 rd of July, July 3 rd . So, the 1 st
. 2 nd was Wednesday and Thursday was July 3rd July 3 rd stuck wasTuedy,th

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

out in my mind a lot is because I talked to Casey earlier in the day. I was off on vacation the week of the 30 th through the 4th of July, that whole week. SB: CA: And you talked to her every one of these days right? Just about. I don't think that I went.. missed a day where we didn't text or talk on the phone at some point. And she always told me that Casey all during this time the whole time she said that she was with the sitter. Always said she was with Zanny or the roommate that Caylee was. The only time she said that... SB: CA: Well except when she was with Juliet. Was with Juliet. That's right, that's what I was starting to say, the only time that Caylee wasn't with Zanny or Jennifer you know the thing was when she was with Juliet for those couple of days during that time that... That's why I'm not sure if there's another person you know that has that phone number that's suppose to be related to Juliet I don't know. SB: CA: Okay. That's connection 'cause her comment to me was, think about what I told you mom. You know I.. I.. I was trying to tell you I couldn't come home and tell you these things. You know I couldn't tell you without alarming you. So, think back now on the conversations I was, I was painting a picture for you. And I didn't know what she was... SB: Well... ....talking about. Well... Think about the events....

CA: SB: CA:

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SB: CA: SB:

(Inaudible)... ...think about we said, think about what we were... I'll tell you something right up front Cindy. She.. she's still not... she... if she had time to go to work, if she had time to see friends...

CA: SB:

But I don't think she was working during this time. I understand that, but we're talking about a week and a half two weeks period of time where her time was completely occupied. Is that what we're supposed to believe at ...

9 10

CA: SB:

She... ....this point she hasn't..

11 CA: She's told me during that time. I mean from my perception not knowing Caylee's
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

missing. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: She was always doing something with work or visiting with her friends. And the core friends she said she was visiting... SB: But now she's telling you from.. from where she's.. the conversation she had now, think back mom what I was telling you, I was trying to give you clues. CA: SB: Right. Or is.. does that mean that you're; suppose to believe now that she was actually in a position where she had no contact with anybody except by phone? They would let her talk on the phone as much as she wanted. CA: SB: CA: SB: I don't know. But she couldn't.. I don't know, I cannot... ....get out and talk to anybody ...

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CA: SB:

I couldn't elaborate. ... by herself?

CA: And the thing of it is, we knew that those conversations were being taped. At least George and I knew it and Lee knew. But we didn't know they were gonna go out into the media, but we knew that anybody in the sheriff's department could look at 'em or the jail could look at 'ern. SB: And she knew that too. CA: SB: CA: She probably knew it. She... That's plastered everywhere on everything (Inaudible)... I'm sure.. I'm sure she did. Um, but if I'm looking at her and giving her he benefit of the doubt. SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Um, she hasn't been... you know if I'm looking at this and she truly is in it, innocent victim in this circumstance and she's protecting... SB: CA: SB: Who? That's... that's where., where you started.. Again... ...that's what I have to ask.

CA: Yeah. SB: CA: Who is she protecting? She told us that day not all... you know during this time frame now, but she told us on our visitation our first day of visitation. SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) That she's protecting this, the family from physical harm including Caylee. `Cause I asked her I said, who are you protecting? Are you protecting Caylee?

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k%-,(19,

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Yes. Are you protecting me? Yes. Are you protecting your dad? Yes. Are you protecting your brother? Yes. SB: Okay protecting from what? CA: And that's what I specifically asked her. I asked her are you protecting from.. our feelings being hurt from something bad happening, you know that we... you don't think we can handle it? And she said, no it's not emotional, she says, it's physical. So, I think.. I think physical means that you're physically.. I mean you're worried that someone's gonna have physical harm. SB: The girl that you describe to me earlier in the general assessment. Is a very well rounded, well adjusted intelligent young lady. CA: SB: I'm not... I' not.. What.. what she's asking you to believe at this point. And I'm just trying... throwing it out there for objectively. What she's asking you to believe at this point is, that she's acted so far out of character that she now believes that somebody has her child and is going to do harm not only to the child or her, but now to the family. But she doesn't want to tell anybody, but she wants to give us clues to go find them. Thinking that... and I'm just throwing it out there because... CA: SB: CA: Well... ....that's what she's asking us to believe. ...I'm normally a very rational you know person that would think things through before I would speak. SB: Right. Now...

CA: Okay.

SB: That's very good.

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1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9

CA:

....it's very obvious that on those 911 calls I was scared to shit... shitless because...

SB: CA:

Right. ... I didn't know what was going on. And I did and said whatever I needed to do to get help.

SB: CA:

But what you did... So, she's saying anything...

SB: But what you made sense. CA: But we don't...

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23

SB: What she's doing doesn't make sense. CA: SB: CA: It doesn't make sense, but it would if... Right. ....we find Caylee. If we find Caylee and she's with this person, then isn't it gonna make sense that she was trying to... SB: If she was giving us clues that would actually lead us to this person. But all the clues that she's given have.. have led us away from... the situation. CA: But not.. not necessarily though. If she's giving us clues with that Glenwood address and he lives in Glenwood. Only the wrong.. SB: CA: SB: Well she., she gave ... ....apartment number. ....she gave you addresses that she knew existed and that she knew that she had been around and Caylee had been around, but not necessarily ... CA: SB: CA: I understand what .... ....have anything to do... ....you're saying.

24 25

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SB:
2 3 4 5 6 7

....with the situation you see. Because people ...

CA: But we don't know that yet. SB: ... people that are in these positions.. we don't know that yet.

CA: We don't know that. SB: But we can't.. but what we can do is we can talk about what people generally do when they find themselves in very uncomfortable compromising positions. They take what they know they twist and turn and they spit it back out. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) So, that what we'll get... And I essentially did that with the 911 call. Because ... Right. ....the only reference I had to bring the authorities to my home... But you were bringing authorities in. I know. You were bringing authorities in. I know. I know. You weren't pushing authorities away. I understand that. That's the rational part and that's... I understand that. ....the common sense part. I understand.

8 CA:
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA:

SB: Okay. CA: SB: And up until this point I've never seen her not be un-rational. Right.

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-11791

1 CA: And common sense. And again you don't know how you're gonna react.
2 3 4 5 6 7

SB:

No absolutely not.

CA: And... I don't know.. I mean until you walk in someone's shoes and you're in that exact situation. It's just like George and myself and Lee are all dealing with this differently. We all are in the same situation. It's.. it's our, it's our Caylee. It's you know our Casey. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And we're all grieving, we're all handling it differently. Absolutely.

8 CA:
9

SB:

10 CA: I mean it took three or four days for George to become focused on you.. we have 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

to work. You can't just sit there in a lump and just continue to cry. I mean I did it for a while, but you can't do it. Within two days I knew my focus had to be... I had to be Caylee's spokesperson. Lee knew in his mind that he had to start organizing 'cause the beginning he was organizing all.. all the websites all getting all this coordinating, getting help reaching out to people that could help us. SB: Yeah. CA: George was back there floundering he couldn't do anything. I mean we.. we.. our family were splitting apart at that point for a few.. because we needed him to pull in with us and he was kind of bringing us down. And now he's focused on what he needs to do. So, we reversed some roles. Lee is now the liaison with the authorities and following up on his own little things, liking at phone records and trying to make sense of everything. And George has to do the focus of all of the um, med.. or not the media stuff 'cause I guess that's me. But all of the fund raising and getting the word out there you know that way. SB: Right.

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CA:

Getting the flowers and T-shirts and stuff those are all un-chartered waters for us we're not used to all of this stuff. It's all out of...

SB: And everybody process the information differently. CA: Exactly. So, I can't say how I would react in her situation. We can sit back and say, oh I would do this, I would do that, I would do that. But how does one know until they're actually in that position? No one knows how someone is gonna handle it. The thing that I know is that Casey would do whatever and I hope you get to listen to her video tapes very soon. 'Cause I think, I'd like to actually sit down and look at 'em again as well. Because I, what I remember last Friday's conversation with her and George. A lot of emotion, a lot of wanting to help. If they'd just listen to me, mom you can.. you know follow the clues. I couldn't say because of the threats and stuff like that. Lee's conversation after that talks about getting physically thrown to the ground and having your life threatened and then you know... SB: That was on the video? Or that was in house? CA: It had.. well it wasn't in the house, that he just found this out a few days ago.
So,

10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

it was either on a phone conversation or the video that has not been shown

yet. SB: Okay.

CA: Because once the media has it I'm sure they're gonna go hog wild with it and I hope that um, everybody looks at those before hand. I don't know I mean it, she describes and I'm sure Lee probably if he was you know been asking him the same questions, what he knows. I'm sure he shared that with someone. If not then he's probably trying to research it himself and I hope.. SB: Figure it out.

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blel

1 2 3 4
5

CA:

....and I hope he's not doing it I hope he's... and Lee's very forthcoming with urn, the deputies and everything else just like we have. Again I have not shared anything like this with the detectives yet because I haven't had an opportunity to do so.

SB:

Right. Let's go back to July 2 nd . She was at Zanny's that last day and then you started to tell me about July 3ed and then I interrupted you and...

6
7 8 9

CA: SB: CA:

July 3rd... ...we've been off on the ... July 3 rd , Casey told me that the baby sitter had Caylee at the urn, like character breakfasts and things like that at the Universal park while she was working. And I told her I was gonna come up and meet her and pick her up and Caylee up. `Cause I was off that week I said, you know what, let's relieve Jennifer of her duties I want to watch her. I actually drove up to urn, Guest Services. Didn't go into Guest Services just called her and asked her I said, well I'm at Guest Services where can you meet me at? And she says, well mom I'm not there I'm in Jacksonville. And I said, what the hell are you doing in Jacksonville? I said, urn, and that was the first time she told me she was in Jacksonville was on July
3rd . Th , I

10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

called Ryan because I didn't know if she was seeing Ryan or not and
3rd

Ryan told me that he had talked to Casey urn, I believe either earlier on July

or on the 2 nd about possibility that she might spend see him in Jacksonville. That urn, that she told him that she had car problems and probably wouldn't be able to. So, urn, I confirmed with him that she wasn't seeing him. And then I asked her later on when I talked to her later in the day. I said, so if you're in Jacksonville who are you seeing, and she told me Jeff. SB: What time did you go up to Guest Services?

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TI DO

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CA:

Between 2:30 and 3 o'clock, but I didn't check in at Guest Services 'cause I called Casey from outside. But I have a receipt.

SB:

But you remember(Inaudible)

CA: But I have a receipt somewhere in my car or somewhere at home 'cause I paid ten dollars to park in the Universal parking. SB: Okay. CA: So, I wasted ten dollars to go up there, which is no big deal. But you know it was in the afternoon. It was the... I probably start driving up there around 2 and got there around 2:30 and by the time I walked from the parking lot over to Guest Services it was a good at least 15 to 20 minutes. SB: Fifteen more minutes.

CA: Oh easy. SB: CA: So, by 2:30, 3 o'clock? Yeah that's what I'm saying...

SB: Somewhere around there. CA: ....between 2:30 and 3 o'clock I called her from there and that's when she said, well morn I'm not there. And I said, then why'd you tell me you were and she says, well I just.. she.. she couldn't give me a good answer. She just said well urn, I actually... She backtracked then and said that she was actually with Jeff all this time, from the 30 th on. She's.. says, well I actually went with Jeff urn, on the 30th . And again I know why she... you know I couldn't see her 'cause she didn't have the car and she didn't have Caylee. Because the car was towed.. or was at AMSCOT... SB: Was at AMSCOT.

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CA:

....from the 27th , and I guess it got towed on the 29 th I think 'cause it was there the 97 th ,
^ 3 th

and the

90th .

SB: From the 30th on she was with Jeff? CA: That's what she says. SB: CA: In Jacksonville or just with Jeff? She said in, she said in Jacksonville.

SB: Okay. CA: I'm not sure you know why she's making the Jacksonville reference. But while she was there she said that um, she was with Jeff in Jacksonville and Caylee was with... I said, well what are you guys doing? Well we're going to Target, we're running errands. I said, well who has Caylee, she says, Jeff's mom. That's why I'm wondering if somewhere between the 30 th and this time that urn, Ricardo was with his mom. SB: Okay. CA: Because that's when she.. that's the first time she changed who was watching Caylee. SB: But Jeff's mom had been sick.

CA: That's what she said. SB: Okay. CA: That she was back for cancer treatments. And she was, she was doing okay, but she was back for urn, for some cancer treatments. And had been up there since the beginning of the year. But she was doing fine. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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CA: And that she was actually probably gonna stay there because urn, she had met
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

someone or something up there. Casey said that her mom Jeff's morn had met someone up there and she was probably gonna stay. SB: Alright how about July 4th ? She.. did she tell you that she was gonna stay there on the 3rd in Jacksonville? CA: Well, here's where we get to... Yeah she said she was gonna stay on the 3 rd , she said they'd probably wouldn't come until urn, either urn, Saturday, which was the 4th or Sunday. And Saturday was the day she told me sometime during the day later in the day that, well they were urn.. SB: The 4th was a Friday. CA: Was the 4th a Friday? Okay it was a Friday. SB: Yeah I'm pretty sure.

CA: Okay, they were spending the day then as the 4 th of July with Jeff and his sister and Caylee was spending the day with urn, Jeff's family and she was with them as well. It was Saturday then which must've been the 5 th is when Casey's car .. she said Jeff took her car to the shop. And she doesn't know where it went. SB: CA: So, on the 4th .. she tells you... Did you talk to her on the 4 th ? I think so. I'm pretty sure I did. Because we thought she was coming back so hat we could take Caylee for fireworks. And then she said that... I think the only day I didn't talk to her... Wait a minute. Hm, trying to think now there was one day I know I didn't talk to her. I don't think it was yet I think it was the next week that might've been the day I didn't actually speak with her. SB: CA: Okay. So, she stayed in Jacksonville on the 4 th on the 5th? Urn, they were still in Jacksonville and she said that Jeff had taken her car to get urn, the oil changed get the breaks done and she said that urn...

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SB: 'Cause she knew that needed to be done?


2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

CA: Yeah and Jeff did it as a favor to her tnnk car to get it fixed. And took it to one of his mechanics. Which we know that's not true because the car was... SB: The car was in towing. CA: ... now in the towing place. But that just ... gives her more alibi why she wasn't able to come home and why Caylee wasn't there is what you know basically... SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) I've gathered now. She maintained that her car was not ready all the way till Thursday of the following week. So, every day there was an excuse why she couldn't come home because the car wasn't ready. So, whatever Thursday was of the following week. So, I guess if we add 3 and 7 that's the 10 th? SB: CA: July
6th .. 4th,

11
12 13

yeah 'cause the


5th 0 6th

3 rd

was a, was a Thursday. Yeah.


7th ...

Yeah

was Sunday,

14 SB: The 10th was Thursday


15 16

CA: SB: CA:

Okay that's about right. July


6th

through the 1 0th ?

17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Right. So, here we go. So, the Friday the 11 th is the only day I didn't speak to Casey the entire day.

SB:
CA:

And all these days in Jack... I didn't call her. With, you... I.. I didn't call her.

SB: CA:

SB: On these days you did though? CA: Yeah every... day I talked to SB: You talked to her.

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"I
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

CA: SB: CA:

...her either by text whatever. I... So, the excuse not coming home? Yeah. You know because the car wasn't ready. So, I didn't call her urn, specifically on the 11 th . When I talked to her on the 10 th , she said that she finally got her car back and that they were gonna come home on Saturday. And she said the reason they weren't gonna come home on the 11 th , is because Jeff had decided to come back home. He was leaving his mom's house you know. Mom with.. at the house. And Jeff was gonna come back with Zachary on that Saturday the 12 th . And she said Jeff wanted to follow Casey and Caylee home make sure they got home okay. So, she was holding off coming home until the 12th So, I didn't even bother calling her on the 11 th . I get a phone call from Casey late in the afternoon gosh evening maybe 9 o'clock and she goes, you haven't called me today, how come you check in every day. And I said, what's the point Case? You're not coming home today what's the point of talking to you, you're with Jeff and his mom and his family. You said you're coming home tomorrow. You know so she.. she reached out to me on the 11 th . And I had pretty much reached out to her almost every day and she would return my call or text me back. So, I may not have had contact with her all the time. There was always a reason why I couldn't talk to Caylee 'cause Caylee was with.. You know if I reached Casey by phone she was at Target with urn, Jeff and Caylee was Jeff's mom or at his sister's and they were you know doing stuff. They were going swimming, they were doing whatever.

SB: CA: SB:

Stuff that she would want you to think that was good? Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Okay.

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1 CA: Not to make me worry not to throw a red flag up.


2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SB: Yeah. CA: Because if I thought that there was anything wrong obviously you know how I would react. SB: You'd have been up there. CA: SB: CA: I'd been up there in a heartbeat. Yeah. Just like you went to Universal. Just like I went to Universal. Just like I called the police department when I found Casey and Caylee wasn't with her. I mean I had no reason not to believe Casey up until that point. No reason. Everything she stated sound rational. Sound reasonable. SB: When I ask you this question would you characterize her behavior outside of being reasonable and rational under normal circumstances. Was it within her character or was it out of character for her... CA: Well I could tell...

SB: The fact that you didn't get to see Caylee for almost a month? CA: That was out of character and we talked about it and it. And at some point she did tell me she says, well mom gonna have to get used to her eventually not seeing her on a daily basis anyway. Because if you know... 'Cause Casey and I for a few months had talked about prior to all this. You know one of these days you're gonna get a... you know you're gonna move out you're gonna get an apartment. She's 22 year old, she's 22 years old. Urn, and you know that was a normal thing. I'd love to keep them there till Caylee's 18 years old being selfish. I'd love to have Lee still be at home. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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CA: You know I mean it's just.. SB: Sometimes right? CA: No I mean.. you know you like to have your family close. I wish I had a bigger house and I just had a kids' suite or something like that. But it's.. it's nice to have your family close to you. Um, so what her statements were is that, and she sounded looking back now like I said, I could've said there was a lot of red flags that I could've looking in hindsight. SB: Yeah. CA: Would've wished I would've followed up on. But didn't have a gut really wrenching feeling that something was really totally wrong. I just was upset because I was disappointed, I was selfish because I wanted to see Caylee. I got to talk to Casey everyday. I love to see my daughter everyday, but I wanted a hug from Caylee and I wanted to see those blue eyes and ... SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... sing our songs and go outside and play and I was off a weeks' vacation thinking that I was gonna spend you know time.. SB: The time with Caylee. CA: ...with Caylee. And that didn't happen. So, yes I was disappointed. And I told Casey that I thought you know even though I understood what she needed to do. She needed to be reconnect. She told me that her and Jeff were talking about possibly moving in together. Possibly becoming a family because what her and Jeff's relationship before was. She told me that Jeff had always wanted to find a mom for Zach. Zach's mom had passed away. They weren't together. Jeff and.. Jeff um, Jeff and his urn, Zach's mother were never married. And that his urn,

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Zach's mom died when he was a year old so his.. Jeff's mother helped him raise
2 3 4 5

Zach. You know he hp.. became mommy and daddy all at once. SB: Yeah. CA: You know he would see his son, but never had him fulltime or anything like that. And there was never any you know urn, any.. they never got married or were engaged or anything like that. So, um...

7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SB: Did you know most of her boyfriends since she grew up? CA: No, not really I know a lot of. There was only a few the high school ones we made a point of because they weren't allowed to go out. SB: Rights.. that's.. right.

CA: My dad was the same way. He didn't know everybody I dated after high school. SB: Right.

CA: Um, so I didn't bring everybody home. SB: Okay. CA: And there was a lot of guys that I dated that you know I just dated I didn't you know dated 'em for a month or a couple weeks and realized that you know wasn't anything other then maybe just a friendship or whatever. And you know that's just the way when you're 18, 19, 20, 22. She didn't bring too many people in to her life at home because of Caylee I think. You know relationships. Urn, I know she had Caylee exposed to her friends because you know they.. she did go urn, you know all her friends knew Caylee. So, I know that you know she took Caylee places. But all her friends... SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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11 0%

CA:

... maintain that she put Caylee first and maintain that you know whenever they
were around um, even if Casey stopped by and there was a party going nn. That

2 3
4 5

she kept Caylee away from people drinking and things like that so. SB: So, what happens on the 12 th? CA: On the 12th like I said, I didn't call her. I figured what's the point she's gonna call, you know... SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: No, on the 11 th . ...she's gonna. On the 11 th ... You didn't call. No. She called you at nighttime.

6
7 8 9
10

11
12 13 14 15

CA: No. SB: She was suppose to come home on the 12 th . CA: SB: No the 12 th she was suppose... is it the um, 12 th was a Friday? No Thur...

16
17 18 19

CA: Was the 12 th a Saturday? SB: CA: SB: ..Thursday is the 10th . Okay. So, the 12th . Eleventh is ...

20 21
22 23

CA: Okay so she.. SB: CA: SB: ....Friday. ... didn't come home. And... Did you call her?

24 25

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CA:
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

We talked I'm sure at some point during the day. And you know I was getting a

little irritated with her. But the


Zanny's mo,. SB: CA: Jeff's.

excuse was, well you

know urn, Zanny's urn, or not

Jeff's mom urn, you know we have an opportunity to go out on the boat. Jeff's mom you know her.. she.. she wants to take us out to breakfast. We're gonna come home maybe on Sunday. So, every day there was another excuse not to come home. And on Sunday it was Jeff's moms' relationship with her, the person that she met there. They were talking about getting married. You know and they you know.. you know wanted to share this information with family and stuff you know.

SB: CA:

She needed to stay for that? She needed to stay for that because she wanted to come back when Jeff and Zach were coming back into town is what she said. Well she needed to stay for that because she still didn't have her car, she still didn't have her daughter. So..

SB: CA:

And she still wasn't there? She still was not there. Um, on... the 13 th was Sunday. So, Monday was the 14th .

SB:

Outside of what you know now about her having lied to you. And made all this up. Her behavior on the phone was it, wasn't normal Casey?

CA:

No it wasn't normal Casey. She got irritated with me for checking up on her. She got irritated a little bit more because some days she almost sound like, she didn't have time to talk to me and it was never the case before. She cut me short and I don't know if it was because... and she always acted like she was somewhere. She goes, mom I'm here, I'm there I'm whatever. And, and I don't

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1
2
3

have time to call you back. And that was never like Casey you know urn, looking back she.. whenever I called her she made time even if she said she was gonna call me back in a minute. She called me back in a minute she made time for me. Seem like she didn't make time for me so I don't know if she was putting.. doing that deliberately 'cause she just was running out of urn, excuses why I couldn't talk to Caylee and why they couldn't come home or what. I mean looking back it's probably because she was running out of excuses you know. Um, I didn't think that before I just thought the girl was having fun she was with Zeff.. Jeff. They were having fun, they were going out to eat. Um, they were going on the boat. They were you know taking the kids to the park. It was always

4 5 6 7 8 9

10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

something. SB: CA: SB: Okay. So... Alright so the 13 th is a Sunday.

CA: Was a Sunday and again I thought they were ... SB: She wants to come home... CA: SB: ....coming home. ...when Jeff does.

CA: And yeah and that didn't happen on the 13th . SB: Okay. CA: So, the 14th's pretty much the same thing. On the 13 th , I was out in my front yard, I noticed the urn, something on my front door. And that's when we saw the notice. Actually had been delivered on the 11 th , but we don't up until this week or last two weeks we haven't used our front door unless someone would come to the house. 'Cause we always go in and out of our garage.

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1 11

SB:
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

The side or the back door (Inaudible)... Yeah the garage. You know. So, she's still in Jacksonville on the 14 th? She's still in Jacksonville from what she said on the 14 th . And you guys notice ... We got a notice.. we found the notice that was delivered to our hone on the 1 1 th , we found it on.. I found it on he door on the 13 th .

CA: SB: CA: SB: CA:

SB: CA:

Four... fourteenth. No I found it on the 13 th , on Sunday. Okay. But it just said that there was a registered letter at the post office for us. Well naturally we couldn't go on Sunday to pick it up. Monday on the 14 th , George was starting a new job. Didn't have an opportunity to go to the post office. And it was way out of my way where it was at was on the other side you know it was opposite direction for me to go to work. And during the time frame we could pick it up, I couldn't. So, on the morning..

10 SB:
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

CA:

SB: CA: SB:


CA:

She still in Jacksonville on the ... She's still ... .....14th? ...on the 14th in Jacksonville and I can't remember what excuse she said they just weren't ready, he wasn't ready to come home something come up. So...

SB: CA:

Right. ...the 15th George goes and picks up the letter from the post office. The registered letter. I get a call from him somewhere between 12 and 12:30 somewhere around there. Saying, guess what that registered letter's for and I

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said, what? He said, it's a tow company. And I said, what do you mean, he said, Casey's car's been at this Johnson's Tow Company since And I'm going, oh my God! So, I hurried up and left Casey a voice message. I think we even actually spoke. I said, obviously you're not in Jacksonville because the car's in Orlando. You need to you know you need to call me. Urn, so on the 15 th , you know urn, we went down they wouldn't let, they wouldn't release the car to George. Because the car was in both of our names, the title. So, we had to both be present. I had to stop and get five hundred dollars cash out of my ATM `cause they wouldn't take a check or a debit card to go pick up this car that had been sitting there.. all this time. SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: So, on the 16th?
-th, No the 15th , the day that I called 911. The I o that was a Tuesday.

That's the day that you ... That's the day we found the car. And the day you found? Casey. Okay. And that's the day.. So, that's when all.. ..that's when everything... ... rest from there.. ....unraveled. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) From that point on from the 15 th , on is when everything... Yeah. ....was reported?

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1113

CA:

From the 15th on is from everything, once... once I... when we got the car like I said we put it back at... we took it back home. George went on to work, I made him go to work he wanted to stay home. I said, no what are you gonna do? I'm waiting for Casey to call me back. I let her know that I know she's in Orlando I'm gonna give her an opportunity to tell me what the hell's going on. I actually went back to work for an hour or two. And then when I got home you know I hadn't heard from Casey so, when I found Amy's number she was the first person I reached out with. 'Cause I thought I'm... I don't know why because I just had some gut feeling to call Amy because I saw her number on that. Because when I saw Casey's bag on the front seat and Amy's resume' was under there. It just started like, why is that there? So, I went ahead and called Amy and then when she knew where Casey was it was like....

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SB:

Now getting back to Amy. On that ride to go meet with Casey, she told you that she lent her car to Casey for a week?

CA: SB: CA:

Yes because her car was in the shop. And what time frame was that? Was that through the 8 th through the 15th? I'm thinking it was the time because my understanding from what Amy says I'm assuming it was from the 8 th .. the 8th through the 15th from her when she was taken to the airport. Because she said she dropped her off at the airport and she picked her back up at...

SB: CA: SB: CA: SB:

She told you that Casey dropped her off and Casey picked her back up? Casey picked her back up. Yep. And you don't know what kind of car that was that she was driving? I never.. I have never seen um... Amy's car.

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CA:

....Amy's car. But Amy told me that she had just gotten a new car that her dad got her. Because we actually started talking urn, 'cause she brought up the fact that urn, when we were talking about Casey and I told her I said, Amy I don't know what's going on. I said, did Casey say anything from you today and she says, no. I said did act different and she said, no. I said well, I want you to know Casey's been telling me she's been in Jacksonville for the last week. And she.. she looked like that was news to her. She looked panicked and I said, Amy, I said I have... I have a feeling there's something wrong because you know the car... I told her, I told her the story. I said, we just found the car today it had been in the impound you know or at this towing company for a um, over a week. And obviously if the car's in Orlando then Casey has to be in Orlando and you know. And I said, now my goal is to find Caylee. And urn, so we were just chitchatting I said, did she say anything strange to you or anything? She said, no urn, and I said, did you see Caylee today? And she said, no. And you know we.. we talked a little bit about anything, I said, urn, why did you let her use your car? She goes 'cause I trust in Casey. I said, you trusted Casey to use your car?

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SB: CA:

Why.. why did Casey say she needed a car? I asked her that, I said, why did you give Casey your car? She said because she told me that her car was in the shop 'cause she needed transportation. I said, so you let her use your car, I said yes.. she said, yes. I said well why did you do that? She goes because I trusted her and she said she needed the car she's my friend so I let her borrow my car.

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SB:

She wasn't gonna be using it anyway 'cause she was gone right?

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She was gone. This is what Amy said. And I think that speaks pretty highly if Amy voluntarily says that she's allowing Casey to use her car. Now I don't know of anybody else...

SB:

Speaks highly, but it also says that, it also says.. tells us that Casey was lying to her friends as well.

CA: SB: CA: SB:

Does it or does Amy know where Casey's car was? One or the other. Exactly. Right. So, she... But Amy... but Amy was very willing to let you know something that ... Yes. ....could be potentially damning to somebody she was... I know. ...in a... If they were in collusion with ach other I don't know. ...why would she say no Casey's been in my car for the last week? I don't know. With.. without thinking ahead of time that this would get Again... ...somebody in trouble? Well, same thing with Casey leaving the car. She left it at AMSCOT and that could get her in trouble. She had every opportunity to pick it up and get rid of the car. So, again I'm not sure, I'm not in their heads I don't know. But...

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SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA:

SB:

Right.

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CA:

... it doesn't... there's something that's not right with all of this. Absolutely.

CA: And urn, I asked her you know I said, by the way and I asked her about that return address thing. And that's when she brought up that urn, and I said... SB: CA: SB: Casey had told her that... Yes, and she... ....you guys were having trouble and she was gonna be able to move in?

CA: Yes and she said, because of Casey I'm homeless. And I said what do you mean by that? And she says well because I gave up my apartment and now I'm.. I'm.. my roommate, I'm.. I'm living with Ricardo. And I said, how long have you been doing that? She said, since beginning of June. That they've been

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roommates. Her and Ricardo were roommates. SB: CA: Okay. And I didn't think anything other then that except to tell her I'm so sorry I can't imagine why she would say that I was moving out, when clearly I'm not moving out and I have no intentions, we never even talked about it. So, again I'm not sure, you know I'm not sure you know if Amy stating that for a reason or what. SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: I.. I think and this is just me. I think it's safe to presume. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) If Casey's willing to lie to your guys. That's she probably willing to lie... She's probably willing to lie to her friends too. Right. Because the people that are gonna affect her life the most we know she's lied to.

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CA: Okay.

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SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB:

And we'll talk to the friends obviously. Right. We're not just gonna ... Right. ....assume it, but logic would put us if she's gonna lie to you guys. Right. And tell stories then she's gonna ell stories to her friends to, to make sure that what she wants is what's happening. You know and I know that's a hard way to look at things. 'Cause she, she didn't want you to know what was going on.

CA: No. So, she told the lies. And she doesn't want other people to know what's going on. So, she's telling them lies too. CA: SB: Well, the thing ... The question is, what's going on? (chuckle)

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CA: What's going on that's the thing. And obviously she knew she couldn't go to Annie and stay with Annie. She couldn't go to a certain other people... SB: Those people know her. CA: SB: ....because they know her. That's right.

CA: And urn, but I'm wondering how well Amy knows her. I wouldn't allow my.. a friend that I just met have my car for a week. I'm not sure I would let a friend that I've known for years have my car for a week. SB: CA: True. I'm not really sure I would do that and I haven't collaborated that, with Casey. Asked her if that's all true anyway I haven't asked her that.

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SB:

Right, right. So, I don't even know if, if that's true. I didn't ask Casey about addre s s change and what Amy stated. I never had that opportunity to do so. I didn't during the time period of time that she was at the house from when they took her all night and into the early morning. Until they took her back down to.. for questioning at the sheriff's department. So, that never came up and I didn't qualify any of those questions with her in her phone interview. Urn, we were asking her other issues about other people because again I had no reason to think anything ...

CA:

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SB: CA:

About that. ...about these guys until last night when I started thinking about things. And again, if I give her reasonable doubt and the benefit of the doubt. I mean presumes innocent and reasonable doubt, I have to listen and think about what's she telling me and make sense of this. And I would want someone else to give that benefit. Again..

SB: Before we have to what you have to do when you talk about giving people the benefit of the doubt. CA: If they're lying..

SB: You have to do, you have to do it objectively. Okay and the benefit of the doubt with the amount of benefit of the doubt that you give somebody. It's on a spectrum and it starts right in the middle. Okay and we.. we assume and presume the people are innocent. CA: Okay. SB: CA: So, that pushes it over here. But ...

SB: And then when we start doing this and chipping away.

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I understand.

SB: Not on purpose. CA: I understand.

SB: But based on what we find out. CA: But if we had reports Casey not being urn, always putting Caylee's best interest first. SB: CA: SB: Those things.. those things go this way. Well that's what I'm saying. But they put it back in there.

CA: But I mean if there was a red flag anytime before I'd be right with you guys on saying that. That I think that you know or anybody else that knows Casey would think that there could be a possibility. SB: When you look back now and there were, you didn't know about it. CA: Okay. SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: The fact was that she'd been... But are they... ...telling you for over a year she was working ... ... but are... ... and she wasn't.

CA: But are they reliable resources or someone that has somebody... SB: CA: SB: Well the, the fact that she told you that she working. But... That takes the lies ..

CA: But has anybody checked... SB: ... back..

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....out these companies yet? I.. I can't tell you yes or no.

SB:

CA: Okay there you go. SB: But I can tell you that the last communication you had from her.

CA: There you go because... SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: And look (Inaudible) ....these are not Universal Studio... not saying that... Exactly. ... they did or didn't. Right. Because I don't know we didn't talk about that today. But what I can say is the last communication you had with them was April 18 th . CA: Right.

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SB: We'll talk to Lee and see if there was some more recent stuff and if they have your computer ... CA: SB: I... ....they'll have those records to show...

CA: Right and I gave, I gave Lee those ones he gave those to Detective Melich, that had Thomas Frank's name on there and Julie Lewis' name on there. SB: Right.

CA: And Casey's name on these emails. SB: CA: SB: And all those people will be interviewed. Right. If.. if we didn't do that, that would be dereliction of our duty

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CA: SB:

Right. And so I'm not saying that it hasn't been done. Right. What I'm saying is I don't know that it's been done yet.

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CA: SB:

CA: Right. Well, when I found those I gave them to Lee to give to the detectives. Again we're giving as much information as we can to them.

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SB: CA: SB:

And it's all, that's all you can do. Right. But you have to understand why they get things. It's not just the laws.

CA: Well I think if we would've had some of that the first 24/48 hours, that kind of stuff could've been cleared up. And if these people do exist then it could've collaborated some of her stories a little bit more. I don't know why exactly Casey.. SB: We, well we can.. what I can say is that my personal feeling is, that if this stuff has been know to Orange County. That they probably checked on it. CA: I can guarantee you they have, they have not seen that. So, the stuff with share from... SB: CA: SB: CA: Okay so they don't have it. ..from...,. They don't have that one. Okay. Well then this is something that they can go check on. Right.

SB: This is something they can do. That doesn't mean if I go in and check and they're gonna verify any of this. CA: Right, I understand that.

SB: Okay.

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I understand that.

SE: And I'm gonna want you to.. CA: I know what you're saying. SB: Yeah. CA: I know what you're saying it could be all fabricated. But again if we're looking at Casey's track record. Okay, she maybe a liar, but she's not a murderer. She may lie to protect her daughter, but she's not gonna, she's not gonna be a party to someone. She's not gonna allow someone to hurt her daughter. So, if we're looking at Casey as s person, re... SB: CA: So... ....relationship with her daughter.

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SB: Well let me ask you this question. Should we then plan on Casey coming forward at the end of August 9th ? CA: SB: CA: SB: I don't know. And saying... I don't know. ... because... because what you're presenting to me is, that she's waiting until the
9th

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the 55 days are up.

CA:

I'm not saying, I think that's what she... when she first put that in.. I'm not sure when she made Timer 55.

SB:

Okay.

CA: She may have made that right when she first .. Caylee was first missing. Or she may have made that um, the 16 th the morning of the 16th , when she actually came back in the computer. When she actually had been in and out of the house during this period...

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SB: CA: SB: CA:

If they have your computer... .... Of time. ..they'll be able to tell when changed that. Right, exactly.

SB: What time. CA: And that's something I did not know about Timer 55 and just till a couple of days ago. Lee found that out and Lee says he's been sharing stuff with the detectives. SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: Okay. So, they... So... ... they probably know that. ....I would hope that they would know that. Yeah. And, and what I'm trying to point out is, I understand how you feel. What we need to focus on is, is first of all increasing your trust with Orange County. CA: SB: CA: Right. Okay. It, it has to be there because if it's not it's detrimental... Well... ...to Caylee. I could care less about you, I could care less about ... I understand. ... Casey. My whole thing, I don't care about.. It's Caylee. ....me. I don't care what the media thinks about.. I didn't mean to sound rude when I said that. No, and I don't care it is all about Caylee.

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CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA:

SB: Yeah.

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CA:

Everything's all about Caylee. And truthfully Casey's an adult she can take care of herself, Caylee's not.

SB: CA:

Right. And our focus George's, Lee's and mine is to bring Caylee home and to find.. actively look for her and help in anyway. But we also need, we're going through a lot and we need some reassurance from the Orange County Sheriff's Department. That they are actually following through because all we see in the media and all we see in the court system is that they've already made their mind up that Caylee is ..

SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB:

Decisions ... ...not... ... that are made... ... that she is not.... ....in Court. ....alive. And that means they're not looking for her in my eyes. No what that means is, legal decisions and judicial decisions are made based on the facts that are presented and only the facts that are presented in each individual hearing. And the judges chooses to just ... believe me there's plenty of times that that judge has equally pissed off the Orange County Sheriff's Office with his decisions I guarantee you.

CA:

I understand, he's got a reputation of being a hard ass in the community. I have attorney friends and...

SB: CA: SB:

So... ... people in the community that know.. what you, what you have to understand ...

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....Strickland's
...that the decisions don't go your way and it makes you mad. It makes me mad

SB:.

when they don't go my way... CA: SB: Well... ...when I feel something.

CA: Here's the thing though, you have two misdemeanors and a third de... SB: CA: SB: I am by no means saying the ... ...five hundred thousand... ...decision was... ....dollars is ridiculous. People have said in on national TV that are in this you know arena that... SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ...our judges and ... I know, I know. ...or lawyers that sai this is rid... They'll say anything they have to say on TV to make sure there's no ...

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CA: But you know what. SB: CA: (Inaudible)... on TV. The attorneys here locally said it should be seventy-five hundred dollars to ten thousand dollars maximum for the charges that she is. Ten thousand ... SB: CA: Right. ... dollars. So, what do.. what's this message? What's this message to the public? What's this message to everybody? That's.. SB: I can't.. I cannot ...

CA: She might as well not even had a...

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SB: A bond. CA: ... a bond. And the other thing was, did you get to see any of the tapes? I felt like I was on trial that day. We felt like it was a trial. Everybody in the media says it looks like a trial. Anybody that looked at it look... acted like it.. said it looked like a trial. SB: CA: SB: What do you mean it like.. Even the judge said... ... looked like a trial?

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CA: That this is looking more like a pre-trial hearing or you know becoming to look like trial.

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CA:

No actually in the courtroom that day for her bond hearing. It looked like a pretrial. It looked like you now a court preceding for a trial and not a bond hearing.

SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA:

Because of all the attention and what was going on. Because of all the attention and what was going on and all of that. That can't be controlled. It can be controlled. By... It really can be controlled by the prosecutor and by what Orange County's putting out there.

SB:

Okay I'm not saying that.. that the information...

CA: And what Judge Strick.. Strickland allowed them to say or do. He gave them a lot of leeway that he, I don't think he should've done. SB: I.. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna ever venture into...

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ai

CA: I know. 0 ci ,.)u. ... a judicial process. I understand. And say a judge did or didn't do his job.

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CA: SB:

CA: I know. SB: CA: SB: CA: 'Cause that would be.. But I mean it just... ... terribly... ...like he's already made his mind.. he made his mind up. That he was, he was gonna go with ... SB: And we can't change that. CA: I know we can't. SB: What we have to do is we have to go forward from here. CA: But the perception in the public and the media is what's destroying our search for Caylee. SB: CA: SB: No. Yeah it is. No, no because what we have to do is, we, you, us, have to focus our attention in the media on Caylee and not answer those questions. And not denigrate because the more we denigrate `em the more we feed into that frenzy. The more we look at, at whoever the reporter might be and say, God damnit you're not doing your job! If you want to find Caylee help me find Caylee and quit doing all this other shit. Guess what's gonna get splashed all over the media?
Some

angry grandmother or some angry FBI agent saying, God damnit you're not doing your job! Rather then, you know today I'm really not gonna answer those

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questions. I'm gonna beg you to please plaster my granddaughter's face all over your station. CA: SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) I'm not gonna go there with you anymore. It hasn't helped me to this point so I don't... I need to shift gears. CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

SB: We need to shift gears. CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

SB: And that's something that has to happen. CA: SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Um, we're not going to change the monster that the media is. They have a job to do. They can't help it they were born that way. Whatever excuse you want to give 'em. You know that.. that.. that's.. that's the nature of that beast. CA: SB: CA: SB: Yeah it's big .... Um.. ... beast to. And it is and the, and they have the (Inaudible)... public. Because everybody and they're brother reads the newspaper and watches TV. CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

SB: And what is presented to them is the gospel you know as they know it. And they don't care to hear anything else. So, what we have to do is we have to, to shift that gospel and make it what we need to make it. Now I'm not saying that's gonna be easy process. The other thing that has to happen is, regardless of our differences until Caylee is found. We have to work together.

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CA: Well, then comments like, this is a waste of the sheriff's department time. Or we wasted three days. They.. SB: That's what Wanda.. CA: SB: It can't even.. ....said she heard.

CA: No, they told my son that they wasted a week on this tip from the airport. Melich or Allen Lee will tell you which one said that we wasted a lot of effort on that.. SB: CA: SB: CA: And, and... ....Orlando tip. The fact.. Don't say wasted. Don't say that...

SB: Okay. CA: SB: ....to the family. I'm not saying that the choice of words..

CA: You know those are inflammatory words. SB: CA: SB: I'm not saying that the choice of words has been the best on anybody's part. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Because we all get frustrated.

CA: Absolutely. SB: And I will tell you and Josh will tell you. If you go back and talk to him again. We spent the greater majority of the time in Trenton's case, in efforts that were absolutely in unquestionably fruitless and we knew it from the beginning. And that's the part that gets frustrating. That's when you start hearing the words, this is wasting our time. CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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Because quite frankly it is. I can you that I went to Georgia and interviewed John Cooey. And when I got done interviewing him the first time I said, well good thing this is over that was a waste of time let's go. Well low and behold we were wrong.

CA:

Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

SB: You know and if we hadn't followed through with the things that we followed through with, we wouldn't have found out until later on. CA: Right. Right.

SB: You know so good work even though we felt like it was terrible work. Right.

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CA: SB: CA:

Right. That's why they still waste their time and they go do it. Right.

SB: Because you never know. CA: Right.

SB: You never know. The one that you throw to the side and say, I'm not gonna do. Might be the one that, that turns out. So, even though you hear that kind of stuff, recognize that there are times when you go home at night. And you say to yourself, these people don't know what the hell they're doing. Well, that may be true. But the fact of the matter is that they know better then most people do. CA: SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) How to do it. And, and they're trying their best. Nobody I can guarantee you that nobody at the Orange County Sheriffs Office wants to have a missing two year old girl.

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CA: I know. SB: Put in their lap. It is the most terrible feeling every time it happens to any agency. They're like.. the first reaction is, oh my God here we go again. CA: SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) How did it happen to us this time? Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

SB: And you're sitting at home saying, oh my God this only happens to other people. CA: Right.

SB: The same reaction. The problem is that, that we expect them to be the heroes and they expect you to be the hero. And they expect Casey to come forward and they.. CA: Yeah. SB: CA: And the expectations are such that, that nobody... I know. It..

SB: ...nobody wants to do everything. CA: Everybody wants it to be solved yesterday. SB: Absolutely.

CA: Everyone wants a nice neat little package. They want it to be boom, boom, boom, here's where you go. And this if everybody's.. my son said that, if your job was easy you'd be getting paid minimum wage is what he told the Sheriff's .. SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ....Department. True if it was an easy job you should be getting paid minimum wage. If it was a no brainer. SB: Right.

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CA:
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But there's some skill to it. You know a lot of thinking to it. There's a lot of crap that you have to take. Grant it, nurses and cops don't get paid what they're worth.

SB: Hum. CA: You know, I don't get paid what I'm worth as a nurse. And urn.. SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: Right. ...firemen don't get paid what they're... I think they.. ...worth. And.. Teachers don't get paid what they're worth. No. So, I mean I can say that if we got paid with what we're worth. But in the bottom line though when you look at things you know it's not .. it's not you know a job that's not...

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SB:

Right.

CA: You don't have to not have a brain to do it. SB: CA: SB: CA: And there's a certain skill that comes with it that not Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ..everybody has. Right. And this is just my

SB: We have to make sure that from this point on.

recommendation to you. I'm gonna tell them everything that we did today. CA: Okay. SB: And... CA: Well, I want you to so you can share so then..

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We will, we will but I want, I want them to feel comfortable in contacting you guys and making sure that we're...

CA: Well we asked them at least.. we don't expect them... my husband would like it everyday ... SB: CA: Right. But I said that's unrealistic. Lee and I feel that even every other day that someone it doesn't have to be Melich it doesn't have to be Allen. But someone from ... SB: Someone calls and... ..from their department. ....and let's you know what's going on.

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SB:

CA: Calls and gives us some reassurance. They were doing that on a daily basis either Melich or Alien was doing it. SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) It stopped on Saturday a week ago Saturday, not this last one. And then all of a sudden you know it was like coming in. And then I also got threatened I don't know if you know this. I got threatened by Melich. I was very upset. Monday night they came to the house. Last Monday not this, not two days ago. When they came... SB: A week ago this past. CA: Right, just before the bond hearing, the night before the bond hearing. When he came and brought my urn, asked me about my camera. Whether or not I could be mistaken about the 8 th . 'Cause like I said in the beginning, I truly thought it was the 8th . Didn't even think about Father's Day urn, and what day it was. Urn, and I said possibly. I said, I'll know in a heartbeat I can call my mom. Well, I

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called my mom it was, they were at our house it was after 7:30 between 7:30 and 8 o'clock. And I tried calling my mom while they were there and my morn usually gets home from the my dad's nursing home from about anytime from 6, 6:30. She usually eats a little bit and then she sits on the internet emailing her sister. SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) `Cause she has no one to talk to. The cat can't talk to her so she emails her sister. And they sit for an hour and write letters to each other. And my mom usually will print her letter out and then she'll go on to be. 'Cause she gets up at 4 in the morning every day. SB: Yeah. So, that she's over there when he gets up in the morning at 7 she gets him up helps him, them get him around. She shaves him, she's there for his breakfast. I mean this has been her routine for almost two years now. And so I knew when I couldn't get 'em I said, listen I'll know in the morning I'll call you in the morning I'll find out from my mom. Well I was down at urn, one of the studios doing an early like the Today Show or something like that. And George gets a call from Carrie one of the girls from the Sheriff's Department. And wants to know if I had a chance.. or wanted to know if urn, I can give 'em my dad's name. And I said no I'm gonna call my mom 'cause I... I had to sneak out early Thursday morning after everything went down on Wednesday. You know with the media and everything that Casey had become.... SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... arrested. I snuck out 'cause the media was camped out our door that night. I snuck out at 4 in the morning Lee and I did. I mean he came to get me with his lights off and I snuck out so that I could go to Mt Dora. I had called the nursing

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home and said, don't let.. don't turn the TV on in my dad's room. Because he watches the news everyday. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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CA: He can't speak he's a aphasic. But he can, he knows what's going on. SB: He comprehends. He knows what's going on. CA: He comprehends, yes. And um, I said we're get up there and I said if my mom gets here before we get there said, please call ahead Dr. Blake her family doctor and get a sedative ordered so that you guys can give it just in case. Because I said if you guys have seen the media... 'Cause they know me up there. SB: Right.

11 CA: I mean I been there for two years seeing my dad almost every weekend. So, we
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got up there early to break it to my mom and break it to my dad. Which was very upsetting to them about Caylee being missing and about Casey being arrested. But more so with Caylee being missing. SB: CA: Right. Urn, and we did that. So, I was very protective making sure no media followed us and everything. 'Cause you know media if they.. SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ..they already trying to find.. they been bothering my husband's parents in Ft. Myers. And I don't want them going and bothering my dad or my mom. So, I had a long talk with the nursing home director and they said, they wouldn't let anybody in anyway. You know they can't come in, they can't release any information 'cause they have done all that. So, I told 'em that morning I said listen my mom's probably in the shower about 7 I said she's probably just getting out of the shower. She gets up at 4 she goes out in the kitchen putzes around

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and goes in and get her shower and then goes sees my dad. I called her she was in the shower she had her cell phone 'cause she you know... SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ..already known. And I asked her I said, mom could.. did... was the last time I was up there seeing dad and I shot that video with Caylee. Was it the 15 th or the 8th? And she says, I'll tell you in a minute let me get dressed. She went out she says, 'cause you know I print out those letters to aunt Mary Lou. I wrote a nice letter to your aunt telling her what a great day we had. 'Cause we spent 2 hours with my dad. SB: Right.

CA: And we went over and had lunch with my mom. Um, she immediately said it was the 15th . But in the interim urn, before that it was um, was it the girl that I talked to on the phone put Melich on the phone. And Melich said, I need your... 'cause I told her I said, I'll tell you in a minute and she said, well Melich wants it now. Wants your dad's name now. So, I got on the phone with Melich and George was standing right next to me and he heard me. And I said, Yuri I said, I've got a call out to my mom she's gonna call me right back she's in the shower she's gonna call me right back and tell what day. He goes, no I want your dad urn, name now we're sending a squad car up to him. You know up to the facility and we're gonna get the books. I said, you can get the books at a later time they can fax 'em to you or whatever. If my mom says it the 15 th , it's the 15 th I'm not arguing with you. You know it probably is the 15 th , if that's what the you know the chip in the thing says. And he says, no I'm gonna send a squad car I want the name now. I said, I'm not giving you his name because it'll be public record and

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it's gonna get out to the media and I don't want them harassing my dad. Who's on Hospice who's very ill and my morn is already a nervous wreck and she.. SB: CA: Right. ... and she's very ill. I mean they're both my mom's 81 and my dad's 85, he'll be 86 in a couple of months. And their health is not been good. And I said, don't threaten me Yuri I said give me a minute I'll send it out here. He said no I want it now. I said, if you press this and you send a squad car up there. 'Cause I'd already told 'ern what nursing home my dad was at. I said if you send a squad car up there don't you think that the media's gonna follow you and then they're gonna know where he's at? You know why I'm protecting my father. You knew why that I been protecting my parents since last week. I said give me an opportunity if you breach this trust between you and I, I will not cooperate with you guys anymore. And I told him that just because I was out there protecting my dad. My mom called me back in a couple of minutes. I immediately called Melich left him a voice message I said, my mom says it's the 15 th so it's the 15 th . She already had asked for them 'cause I told her to tell them to go ahead and get the books out. And that they could see if they fax them the page where I had signed in on... SB: CA: SB: Signed in... ... Caylee. ..on Caylee.

CA: On that date because I signed Cindy and Caylee to visit and I wrote my dad's name. And then that.. he brought.. they brought that up in court that I refused to cooperate with authorities because of that. You know and I stared him down I

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said, you know why, you know why I said that. And it was only because I was protecting my father. SB: CA: Yeah. And I have fully cooperated with him ever since. But I mean that's the way I was treated from that Monday on. And then no one has talked to us from that Saturday after Casey was taken into custody. Up until then we only had one briefing and that was the night before her urn, her hearing. SB: CA: Her hearing. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) They urn, they quit talking to me anyway because they first told us any tips that we had channel through the tip line. Well we did and they say, well we can't get through to 'em for two days we been trying. I gave 5 or 6 numbers I gave 'ern to the Missing Person's Unit, I gave 'em everybody cell phone number. I said, keep trying 'ern you know it's not the protocol, but if you can't get through the tip line you've got to get through. SB: CA: Right. And I would call them and say so and so is calling. Well after a while they get tired of us bugging them. I said, well Yuri you're saying on one hand if we don't report it to you we're not cooperating. And on the other hand if we report it to you we're bothering you. So what do you want us to do? So, I think a lot of it we need to repair. SB: CA: Right. And Lee reached out to them on Saturday they were suppose to get with us every other day. They still have not reached out to us. I mean Lee went down and spoke to the urn, one detective yesterday I don't know if it's Detective Edwards or whatever his name is. Yesterday and answered questions that I

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guess he wants speak with all of us. But they're not reached out to George and
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myself and us as a family like they have. And we need that and Lee's been trying to get that. Plus they promised me a week ago on that last Monday when they saw us before the bond hearing. I asked for my laptop back, which I gave

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them. And also my camera back and they said they didn't need anymore. And Lee's been asking everyday and I still don't have it back. So, I'd like to have that back as well. I mean we got the, the family computer back within a couple of days. SB: Okay. CA: So, I.. I'd like to have that and I think that will help because then I can help look for Caylee on that and help email people things and do stuff that I need to do. Um... SB: I.. I understand... CA: SB: CA: If they want to open up... ...your frustration. ...that with you know with us it's a two way street. You know I always maintain that I feel they're doing the best that they can. But I'm not sure they're doing enough because I haven't been able to speak with them. SM: Well you know and they're not gonna tell you everything. I mean... CA: And I don't expect 'em to. SM: CA: SM: I'll .. I don't expect 'em to. ....give you an example. (Inaudible)... introduced 'ern to one of the investigators he just come back from two leads that he followed up on. I mean they are people

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CA:
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I know. ...while we're doing this that are out. I understand. And they're looking and they're knocking on doors. Okay. No trust me they are. But again I just hear the fact that you know I hear side things to my son or even Wanda. You know you got to... you go to speak to Wanda um, you know... It's very compelling when you hear it from someone that you... especially Lee. Lee shoots it straight Lee's just like me he's gonna say what it is. 'Cause if it's black, it's black, if it's white, if it's white, if it's gray, it's gray. If it's a stripped tie we're say it's a stripped tie.

CA:

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CA:

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CA:

SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA:

I understand. So... We wouldn't expect anything else. Yours has dots on it. (laugh) With holes in it you know. Don't say that too long you... (laugh) No but so, and that's why we reached out to you because we just felt like we're not sure. We get phone calls from people in Georgia that notified their authorities, notified the tip line and reached out three or four days later still hadn't heard from anybody. So, again...

SB: CA: SB: CA:

And I, and I can promise you that that's not going to end. Right. It.. it.. it's a part of.. I'm sure it will.

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SB: CA: SB: CA:

...the... But I mean you got understand ... It's a part of the ongoing process. ....from OIA to Atlanta to Sunny Breeze whatever that is and then to urn, what the heck was that name of that other one? They were all reasonable within.. and the two in Georgia sighting didn't even know about the OIA report. That was before the media or anybody had said anything.

SB: Yeah. CA: So, I mean it kind of puts it in maybe there's a Georgia.. plus I had a strong Georgia thought with someone locally. Can I keep these?

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CA: Yes. I brought 'em for you guys. SB: CA: Yeah. Specifically.

SB: Those. Is there any other questions that you have for me? I know we've taken up a tremendous amount of your time today? CA: No urn, I know you... as long as I know you guys are out there assisting then I feel very comfortable that it's... you know that things are being followed up. SB: Hm.

CA: I mean that some reassurance. And that gives me piece of mind you know that we're.. SB: There's another question I want to ask you. CA: Sure. SB: And it doesn't mean that this is going to happen. What in the world is that? (Inaudible)... Urn, and.. and I'm not making any accusations. When things like

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this happen you can call Josh and ask him too and anybody else that's been in this situation. All the information you've given us would you be willing to take a polygraph regarding it? CA: SB: CA: Absolutely. Okay. I have no problem with that. I mean I will answer to the best of my ability like I have. Like I said on some dates and stuff I'm not exactly sure you know. Again.... SB: That's okay. ...I didn't take notes or .. Poly... ...write things down. ...Polygrapher's understand that people don't remember everything exactly right. Exactly. But they, they get around it and they make is so that it works. Absolutely. Okay. It's just something that we.. we ask family members and things like that and.. CA: Just like when they came and said that the neighbor gave Caylee.. Casey the shovel. George and I said, go check our back yard we know every inch of that back yard. We were so confident they weren't gonna find anything in the back yard. Because we.. SB: CA: Yeah. ...knew why you would number one, use a shovel and that we had been through.. even though I brought up to Allen, make sure the dogs sniff around the

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SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB:

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pool with the blocks. Because I'm thinking if it truly was an accident I'm thinking the pool area would probably be the number one place that it could've happened You know either... SB: CA: Right. ....her falling ... And I've been fearful of falling but Caylee and I got a routine down that you know we get it just right where I'm reach out to her and I'm on that last step that I got good footing and coming on down. Now last year when she was a baby and couldn't stand on the steps. SB: CA: SB: CA: Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Or you know younger. Yeah. We made sure we didn't go in the pool unless there was two people, two adults that we can hand her off to someone else. Because you just worry about getting in and out of the pool. SB: CA: SB: Well I'm gonna let you get out of here. I appreciate you... You have my number. .... coming down. I appreciate you... We're gonna, we're gonna go we'll stay in contact. Like I said I'm coming down to help today. That doesn't mean I'm gonna stay here. CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: Oh I know that. And I wouldn't expect you to I appreciate ... There are guys that I am very comfortable with. Just so you know. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) That are doing this ah... I spoke with both Allen and Yuri today. Well..
.

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SB:

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For quite a while and I'm comfortable with they have a very good grasp with what's going on.

CA: Good. SB: CA: SB: Urn, they have a job to do. Sometimes it's one that really sucks. I understand. There's no other way to put it. Urn, and they... you're not the only person unfortunately you're the prominent person right now that.. that makes their days harder. CA: And I don't want to make their day... SB: CA: SB: And I... ... harder. ....no I understand that.

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CA: And you know what? SB: CA: I didn't mean it in a bad way. No I understand...

SB: There was no way to say it. CA: No I know that. And, and Yuri and Allen will tell you from day one. I mean even before... 'Cause we had believe me media knocking down our door as soon as SB: CA: Oh yeah. ... that was released. I said I'm not speaking to anybody until I speak with Yuri. And I asked him I said, what do you not want me to talk about. He said, you can talk about anything you want. And I said well, I'm not gonna talk about the car if you don't want me to. I mean again.. SB: I'll tell you something. He, he told you that because that's the answer he has to give you.

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I know but.. but I wanted.. I'll tell you I'll tell you something else... ....him to say ... ....about the media. ... I wanted him to tell me, I said, if they.. if you don't want me to let them know about the car I'm not gonna let them know about the car until you have a chance to look at it until you have a chance because I don't want to say anything. And I've been always been trying to be respectful of that.

SB: CA: SB: CA:

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SB:

Right. But again my frustrations right now they know I've between frustrated we've told 'em on the phone. George has told 'em, I'm not suppose to be calling 'ern and bothering 'ern. So, they've had an opportunity to do damage control.

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SB: CA:

Right. And until they do that I speak what I feel. I speak what I know. I speak what I feel is the truth.

SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA: SB: CA:

From this point on. And until I... I'll give you the advice, and they won't give it to you because ... I know,. ... because they can't. I know. They're not allowed to. But you know what? Speak what is best for Caylee. I know.

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SB:
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Not necessarily what you feel or not necessarily what you know to be the truth. Speak what is best for Caylee. And sometimes that means looking at them and going, guys what's I've done so far and what we've done so far hasn't worked. We're gonna have to change out tactic. You may not like it, and I.. I don't, I don't talk to 'em.

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CA: Yah. SB: Personally.

CA: I know. SB: That, that's my... but I understand the need because you have to use 'em. Without them these things mean nothing to anybody. CA: Exactly. Beca.. and that's what I told them this morning. I said, there's no other, if it was just a missing child and nothing about the mom. She wouldn't have the media after two days. It'd be done and I said, that's the sad world for all the missing children that's out there. SB: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

CA: And I will be an advocate for missing children from this point on even... SB: CA: Absolutely. ... Caylee's brought to me this afternoon I will be an active voice for them. In fact I was talking to some people that you know that do this all the time. And there's more... animals have more protection and more rights. And I'm an animal lover I have two cats... SB: CA: Right. ....and two dogs. But it's true they have more rights.

SB: Yeah.

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CA: Then, then children do and it's sad. Because if you abuse... if you abuse your dog once or someone sees you strike.. you're gonna be arrested, but if you lay your hand on your child you're gonna be investigated and then it, then you're gonna be, they're gonna be taken back. They don't, they don't take 'ern away from you the first time. At least I've never heard that. SB: CA: No. Unless it's something really bad. But it's you know it's sad, it's really sad. (sigh) I just feel very comfortable knowing that you guys are also you know out. It's just nice to know another agency's out there that's all. It just give me... SB: CA: SB: CA: I understand. ... comfort. And I could...... If you get frustrated call me. ....take a little bit of comfort inside me right now 'cause it's hard to find things that comfort you. And I've told urn, everybody from day one I've always urn, been able to look someone in the eye and see if they're genuine or not. You can.. I can see through people. SB: Yeah. CA: I been a pretty good judge of character and I know when someone's bullshitting me if I see them. Now on the phone it's a little bit hard so, if Casey would've been one on one with me I'd saw holes through this right away and she knows it. And that's why... but I looked her in the other... in the eye the other day on there and I believe her. And I know I know Caylee is out there and I want, I'm gonna do everything I can to bring her back before her birthday. SB: So are we. CA: I know you will. I know you will I see it I see it Scott.

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SB:
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I can't make you any promises. But... I know that. We will.

CA: SB:

CA: I know. SB: Alright I tell you what. Lee left he had to go somewhere.

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CA: Okay. SB: CA: SB: George is still out there. (Inaudible)... I told George we may talk to him. But...

CA: Okay. SB: ..considering what time it is now and how long we been here.

CA: If you need us for anything, any questions any answers whatever. SB: We'll call you.

CA: Let us know. SB: And you do the same thing. CA: I will. I mean... all I want is her found. That's all we want.

SB: Okay. CA: SB: I think that's what everybody wants. It is. Sorry you're in this situation. But I promise you that's the last time I'll apologize to you. No it's not. No it's not... SM: (Laugh) SB: No I.. I'll find some other reason to apologize. I'll screw up something I know that.

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CA:

No I.. I don't want anybody's apologies about anything urn, from you guys. All I want is just (Inaudible)... found do what it takes. And I know you guys will too. So, that helps me out.

SB: CA: (laugh)

I mean we'll walk you out there in (Inaudible)... I am gonna hit the restroom 'cause the butter finally did kick in.

SB: That means you've had enough. CA: Yeah. SM: SB: CA: (Inaudible)... restroom (Inaudible)... Oh yeah go ahead I'll wait. Oh..

SB: Yeah. CA: SB: (Inaudible)... Steve, all that stuff. (Inaudible)...

(Left room) (Talking outside room) (End) THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY

Signed this 8th day of June, 2009.

DETECTIVE CORPORAL MELICH, OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF

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TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF CINDY ANTHONY CONDUCTED BY CORPORAL YURI MELICH CASE NUMBER: 08-069208 August 1st, 2008 YM - CORPORAL YURI MELICH EE - DETECTIVE ERIC EDWARDS CA - MRS. CINDY ANTHONY

CA:
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You know on lack of sleep, lack of food. That's fine, I'm just gonna...
I can't remember... I can't remember...

YM: CA: YM: CA:

I'm just gonna... what I did yesterday so.

YM: I can probably tell what you did yesterday or at least some part of it. CA: I know a couple things I did, but no the entire day.

Alright, the date right now is August 1 st, 2008, the time right now is 0945. We're at the Orange County Sheriff's Office. I'm Detective Melich with the Orange County Sheriff's Office. This is Detective Eric Edwards at the sheriff's office, we're here with Cindy Anthony, Mrs. Anthony. And ah, case number is 69208. YM:

Cindy, you're aware I just turned on a micro-recorder we're just gonna sit here and talk and...

CA:

Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

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And the reason for this is so that way I can go back if I miss something or if I have a question or something I can go back and listen to this. Are you okay with that?

CA: YM:

Yes. Okay. One of the purposes we wanted to invite you here today is that we want to try and... as we've dealt with several Casey's friends is trying to establish a time line dates that she was definitely somewhere. Dates that she was definitely not where she was suppose to be. So, ah, Detective Edwards has done a phenomenal job right now in dealing with all her friends. So, we're hoping that you know by sitting here maybe you can fill in some blanks for us.

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CA: EE:

I'll do my best.
And I have more friends to go. I'm just... what's gonna help me I'm being asked questions by people that are weeding through... I'll show you something real quick and just for not even for anything other then, then the value of it for you to understand. 'Cause I know there's a lot of questions you have. Um, just a couple of days, just two days worth of phone records what we need from... from her phone. What we need to try to find out who those people are, what the communication was reference to is that much. Now that being said we have three month window here that we're trying to look at. And then really we could go back to the first of the year. So, to try to help narrow down days that we need to tie up man power on looking at who she was communicating with. If you can tell me from May through...

CA: EE:

I'll do my best. And that's all I can ask for 'cause it's difficult to remember what we had for dinner yesterday. I understand that.

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And without a reason to specifically remember I'm not gonna... Well I'm looking for birthdays. Okay. Or whatever you know, any kind of family function or... (Inaudible)... a trip anywhere. And we'll start there and maybe by that we can build off and jog off that. And well I know after this birthday party I headed for (Inaudible)...

EE: CA: EE: CA: EE:

JA: CA:

You got a sec.? Yeah.

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EE: I had her for however many days. Um, is there any in May, is there any family birthdays? CA: Nothing that we celebrated. I mean I have a brother's birthday, but we didn't do anything cause he's out of the area so. EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: What day was that? Um, (Unintelligible) ... May 18th May 18 th Yeah and we didn't do anything for that. What's his name? Dan Placia... Dan? Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Alright. I didn't even talk to my brother that day. Shame on you. I know.

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EE:

(laugh) Alright so Dan's birthday knowing that that's Dan's birthday; do we know if Casey and the baby was at the house that day just from thinking about that?

CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE:

No, I didn't even.., I mean ... No conversation... when you said birthdays I wasn't even thinking about... No that's fine it's just there's a... Yeah. I'm thinking maybe it sparks a... I was ah... I didn't call my brother today and she gave a response to you or something like that.

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EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:

No. That was um, is that a Sunday? Yeah. Most Sundays Cay... Caylee was with us. Most Sun... most Sundays? Almost every Sunday. I can't... I can't recall Sunday um, until after the 15 th that we didn't have Caylee at home.

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EE: CA: EE: CA: EE:

So, you had... you had her... I.. I... So, you had her... I would be pretty confident I had her every Sunday in May. Okay and, and...

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CA: As...

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EE:

and you would be the baby sitter or she would be... She would be there. and Casey was there? Yeah Casey was may or may not have been there. Most Sundays Casey was off and was, was with us. Was with you at the house Uh-huh. (Affirmative) most Sundays? I can't say for the whole day or whatever, but you know there's nothing that really sticks out.

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EE: CA:

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EE: CA:

EE: CA :

Okay. Saturdays would she be there Saturday? Yeah always Saturdays. Now whether or not urn, Saturday's always in the morning and, and during the day. Now once in a great while George and I might go out on a Saturday evening. Because he was working urn, afternoon turns. And he was starting to work on Sundays. So, I usually had urn, we usually just did stuff around the house urn... You guys both work during the week so, there's... Yes. Okay. He was off Friday and Saturdays is his days off. And then urn, went in to work usually left around one, one thirty on Sundays.

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CA :

EE :

On Sundays? Yeah. George would work?

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EE :

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CA:

Yeah. But, and ah, I can't remember when that started 'cause that stated somewhere either the end of April or sometime in May where he was working urn, afternoon shift. And then had his Saturday and Sunday 'cause prior to that he was working day turn and had Saturday and Sunday off.

EE: CA: EE:

Monday... He'll know more of that, I can't remember when. That's... that's fine. What did his days off turn into when he went to that rotation do you remember, can you...

CA: EE: CA:

It was Friday and Saturday. Friday and Saturday. Right so once in a while we either went out Friday night after work... after I got done work and had dinner. Urn, it wasn't that often urn, and...

YM: CA: YM: CA:

Is your schedule set every day (Inaudible)... My schedule is Monday through Friday. Ah, what time do you normally work nine to five, eight to four? On Mondays and Tuesday I have to be in at work at eight 'cause I usually leave the house around seven twenty, seven thirty. And then urn, I may be home at... mean I'm supposed to be off at five, it never happens. I'm usually there five thirty some days six. Now on Wednesday and Thursday urn, I don't have to be there till eight thirty, but I usually still get in about eight ten, eight fifteen anyway. Urn, we... there's two of us that kind of rotate so that everyday that someone doesn't have to be early person or the late person.

YM:

So, you leave by seven thirty then, seven forty-five?

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CA:

Yeah. And then on Friday we usually rotated and urn, so that we didn't always have to come in early? I mean that half hour difference makes a little bit of difference in the morning.

EE:

You help most... I mean I know what it was like this morning trying to get mind ready to go. You normally help feed the baby in the morning or...

CA: EE: CA:

No, I just... the baby's usually sleeping? Yeah usually Caylee was still in bed. Once in a great while she'd be up in the morning um, just before I'd leave, but most of the time they were still sleeping.

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YM:

I'm sorry what time you go to work on Friday ah, eight, eight-thirty...

CA: I either would do the early have to be there by eight or buy eight-thirty. YM: CA: YM: Okay. And my routine was still usually get there at least ten, fifteen minutes early. Gotcha. And any days in June prior to... actually any days in June you remember taking days off? CA: Yes I was off the week of my birthday which was June 5 th ; I was off the entire week. YM: CA: Okay, did you guys go anywhere? No. We were supposed to go somewhere. Suppose to urn, visit George's parents and we didn't end up going. YM: CA: YM: CA: Okay so you were off the week of June 5th . And I watched Caylee. You stayed home. Yeah I baby sat Caylee the entire week. Urn, Casey was in and out that week.

YM: Is that the only week in June or the only time in June you took time off?

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CA:

Urn, I was off the 30 th of June, cause that was my next weeks' vacation, through July 2 nd and all that and I remember that 'cause that was my parents' anniversary.

YM: EE:

So, you were off a week. The 20 th to July 2 nd? I didn't get that far yet. And...

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CA:

YM: I'm just trying to figure out the CA: YM: Yeah. the weeks off the days off.

CA: I think the 2 nd was the urn, that Monday. YM: CA: YM: CA: EE: Could it be Wednesday? I think July 4th was Friday. Oh, I'm talking about June. We're still in June. Oh okay so the 30 th of May... Yeah he's still writing June, I was telling him June. So, you... I'm sorry.

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CA: I was off the first week of June. EE: CA: Off the whole first week of June. Right cause my birthday's the 5 th so, that's why I remember I was off that whole week. YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: I don't like to work on my birthday and I turn fifty this year so.

And the 30th of... June. Okay till July. That whole week. Okay. So, whatever July (Inaudible)...

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EE: CA: EE: YM: CA:

July one, two, three... July 4th was... four. Did you guys go anywhere or did you stay home? No the only... um, we didn't go anywhere. Again um, Casey and I were talking about going to Ft Myers and we didn't cause she said she had to work. So, end up hanging out. Um, she actually didn't come home she wasn't you know she wasn't there. So, I mean I ended up hanging out I did yard work things like that.

EE: CA: YM: CA:

What date are we on how? I'm getting confused. Okay... June, July. We're in June, July the 30 th , I was home all week didn't go anywhere.

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EE: I want to go back to May. CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: Okay. 'Cause... Well he's jumping ahead asking me time off so.. That's fine. I... I... Answer these questions. I would like to lock down 'cause you're just for... I'm... I'm on one sheet and that's the only way I can keep all this... CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: Right. information straight. And I apologize to you brother. Yeah. I was off that Monday, Memorial Day. You were off Monday. The Memorial weekend yes.

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EE:
2 3 4 5 6 7

Was... Yeah Memorial Day that was a holiday. the baby with you? I want to say probably yes, I don't recall that she wasn't. Anything that stands out that says yes she was and the baby... ah, your daughter wasn't home, but you kept the baby or...

CA: EE: CA: EE:

CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:

Um, I have to start thinking about May um; you know I really don't know. Um... Okay. I mean... Possibly she was there? Actually I know she was there because I... I have to find out from Lee because I think we invited Lee over um... Lee may have even come over to eat that day I think we cooked out just briefly before George went to work. 'Cause I think George had to go to work.

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EE: CA:

Okay cookout. Yeah either he was...we asked him last minute I think he may have came over or if not George and I just cooked out, but we had Caylee with us.

EE: CA: EE:

Okay. I remember that now. Let me look at something real quick. Right. Did... remember that George he, he ah...

CA: EE: CA: EE:

I believe he had to work Memorial Day. Okay. In the afternoon. You remember putting the child to bed that night?

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CA:

Um, most nights I you know rocked her even if I didn't put her to bed you know I would rock her...

EE: CA: EE: CA:

Help her calm down. and sing. Typical two year old. Oh yeah she always like to sit in my lap and we'd read or we'd go out last thing before she like to go out and look at the stars and find the moon and stuff like that.

EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:

She had a... I mean I apologize... She doesn't sleep in her... (inaudible)... the house. crib... Sleeps in... She has a... bed with you? we have a urn, years... about a year ago we converted her urn, crib to a daybed. And rarely would she take a nap on it. So, I was Casey's bed and that's where she slept every night. We were trying to every once in a while let her sleep in her bed. But if she'd wake up and didn't touch Casey or someone then she'd start crying and then get up and come get urn, Casey anyway. So, Casey just decided to leave her sleep in there. And Casey kind of missed her too anyway so.

EE: CA:

It's a comfort level. It's a comfort for both of 'em they always...

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EE:

Sure. Okay. So, we know for sure ah, Caylee the 26 th and most... most days for certain the Sundays and the Saturdays in May.

CA:

Yeah that I spent the day with her right. I can't say what did during the week while I was at work.

EE: CA:

This week or any week? Yeah I mean I don't know what she did during the day while I was at work. Most of the time she was there when I got home. Um, my routine was on my way home from work whether I was leaving at five, five fifteen, five thirty, six o'clock whatever. I'd dial um, Casey's cell phone and her and I would chat and that would just kind of help me get home you know, unwind. I'd find out what Caylee did for the day, what she was doing you know and that kind of thing. It was just a routine that we kind of had.

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EE: CA:

Okay. So, now if you weren't on vacation what Yuri's getting at you were... During the day I wouldn't know what she was doing. If she was home with Caylee or not necessarily.

EE: CA:

But the evening... They were generally home and we had dinner and we played with Caylee, gave her, her bath and put her down and that was something that Casey and I both did together. I mean you know she might be running the bath water while I was finishing up dinner with Caylee or whatever.

EE:

Is there a night in particular that you know 'cause let's face it... No. there's a social life there that... did she go out on a particular night where you were tasked to... There's a lot of times she said she was working.

22 CA:
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EE:

25 CA:

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EE: CA:

Uh-huh. (Affirmative) You know that I thought she was working. Um, and most of the evenings she was working and I usually...

EE: Most, so most evenings? CA: EE: CA: Well, you know... Okay. um, at some point it doesn't mean that she was gone the whole night. sometimes she came in early and sometimes she came in... YM: CA: YM: What's early? Um, nine, eight you know. And what would be late for her or a normal... Ah... late for her? if she came in late it would be one, two. Again May doesn't stick out I mean it might be something that my memory will remember later if I go back and look at my work calendar or something, but no. EE: CA: Yeah that's great 'cause I.. I gave Lee those... See if I'm at work... two calendar books and... I could... and if you get... Yeah. a chance feel free to use 'em and jot it down... Yeah. whatever and just we'll set something else up then that's fine. I mean

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CA: EE: CA:

Yeah. Yeah there's no, there's no pressure... on this. Right.

EE: Want to make sure there's no pressure. CA: But I mean if I could go into work maybe and look at my work calendar see what I was doing there that night trigger you know something. EE: CA: Okay... We're pretty boring people come home from work and we're home bodies you know we don't really go out a lot. You know George and I go to dinner once in a great while and that's it. EE: CA: Right. Our life was Caylee.

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EE: And yard work. CA: Our life was Caylee we worked out in the yard. George was... if he was out front um, you know washing the cars, if Caylee was um, napping or when Casey... I'd weed out front, but typically we're in the back. That's why we had it fenced it and we had Caylee's play area back there if we were outside. EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: That was you're, that was you're... (Inaudible)... recreation... That was our.... The pool. oasis back there.

EE: The sandbox and every... CA: Yeah.

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Yeah.

CA: I mean we (Over talking) EE: CA: Save money that way. We made it a place for you know what? Even before Caylee we were people that wanted to be at home, I mean... EE: CA: Um huh (affirmative) We used to like to go to the beach and when we got the pool (inaudible) I hadn't gone to Cocoa Beach for a long time, you know we just... EE: Did she like the beach the um Caylee?

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CA: I never had an opportunity to take Caylee to the beach. I know Casey had taken her a couple of times. We talked about it we had talked about you know going to the beach. EE: Okay well that can look at that, one one thing she did say was um to friends and we can remove that now maybe that's something she should have... CA: I never took Caylee to the beach. EE: CA: Okay yea well I don't want to appear like I'm trying to (Over talking...) No, no, no that was some things because um... actually I had spoken with Ryan on the 3 rd and he thought I had Caylee at the beach that week and the week that I was off and I said no I haven't been to the beach all week and I haven't seen Caylee. EE: CA: Okay. So and then even Jesse called me and told me that the baby sitter had that he said that Casey (inaudible) time with the baby sitter had her at the beach and urn
I

said I don't know and you know I don't know anything about that because she

didn't tell me that the baby sitter had her at the beach.

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EE: CA: EE:

Okay. So... Well that helps you know I mean days like...

CA: I didn't I have never had her at the beach. EE: CA:
Recreation? George and I went to the beach one time this year, we went to Cocoa Beach urn... once I can't remember what day it was and... was just him and I, I can't even remember urn... I think it was uh it had to be probably around May because Casey and Caylee were both still home so either May or that first week of June, could have been the first weekend of June. In fact it might have been that first weekend of June that urn Saturday before my birthday or something like that. You know that weekend before I... um was either that or the weekend after urn... (Over talking) George might remember I'm pretty sure was either it wasn't the weekend of Memorial so was either the urn...

EE:

Following weekend?

CA: It might have been the following weekend that him and I went to the beach.
Ur... so that would have been what the... seventh?

EE: CA:

So you went to kicked off your vacation... Going to the beach then I took um I thought I had taken Caylee to see my dad whenever it was the week before so George and I must have went up or mist have went up or I must have went up and saw my dad on May
8th .

EE: CA:

Okay. And then the following Sunday on Father's day is when um and I remember clearly now I didn't the 15 th was Father's day, it didn't even think about that (inaudible) Father's day because George didn't want to celebrate it, he was busy;

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Casey was I think she was off work and I think I just gave him something you know a Father's day present and I think Caylee and I just decided to go up and visit my dad, she haven't been up there for... a couple of weeks or so to see him. EE: Well let me (inaudible) some clarification on those things just for my... so May were in May 31 st you um you and George went to the beach May...? CA: EE: I think it I actually think it was June 7 th now. June 7th? Okay June 7 th so you ended that week's vacation at the beach before you had to go back to work cause you were off the first week in June... CA: EE: CA: Possibly. Okay. It was either the beginning of the end of George would remember more than I would, right now I... again this is all kind of a blur I'm tired so... EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: Urn huh (affirmative) But I could probably figure it out. No stress. (chuckle) No, I I mean it (Over talking) No I know I mean is... You and Lee can go (Over talking...) It had to you know really put branded our minds you know? Right well it just helps us do...

CA: I said the 15th would be branded in my mind forever... EE: CA: Right. You know with the 15th of July (inaudible)

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EE:

Now when you... when you first said the 8 th though that was just confusion like you said and you you...?

CA:

Yea well I knew I had seen my dad that weekend and I I didn't put father's day together, I was thinking I knew I had seen my dad towards the end of my vacation just before I went back um... and...

EE:

Well and also at the time just from what Lee is telling me that with that conversation, at the time you made that statement you had others stress factors in your mind so you you know?

CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:

Oh yea I mean... You know... that was... that was made on the 15th right to Casey and Lee? (inaudible) When you first went and got her. Right. That's when you said that you have seen...? Yea I just said that because and I didn't look at a calendar it just came out I was thinking it was the Sunday before I went back to work but it was actually father's day, which was very easy to confirm as you know without even. just a little call to my mom confirmed it. I mean she has... my mom has a log of everything, if I talked with her she would explain (inaudible...) so I can find her letters might help.

EE:

Okay yea Kevin Kraubetz (inaudible) Detectives when they had the chance to talk to her she he says she seems like she had a lot on the ball.

CA: EE:

Yea. Yea.

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CA:

She writes, she's she's going thru a though time right now I mean is been very stressful for her for the last couple of years anyway. I mean...

EE: CA:

Urn huh (affirmative) Before my dad had a stroke, she'd found out in fact it was Caylee's urn... urn... is it her first birthday? Yea she found out she had breast cancer and then she'd gone thru six months of treatment, two surgeries, six months of treatment, finished in December and my dad had a stroke urn... two years ago and well it'll be two years (inaudible)

EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE:

He he is close to her up there on Mount Dora is what Lee said. Well... That's why they... She lives a block from the facility. Okay. And she goes there three times a day typically so that's her routine. She remember making a peanut butter jelly sandwich cause the baby wouldn't eat chili?

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CA:

Yea we had chili that day I was up there cause my dad and I... and Caylee spend a long time I didn't think she had spend that much time with them because... you know I mean usually when were all there she wants to walk around but she actually sat at the table, she had a book, she was coloring with (inaudible) you know?

EE: CA: EE: CA:

Urn huh (affirmative) Papa and it was just a nice day. Going back... that was that was June then right? Yea it was June 15 th father's day (Over talking) the day I shot the video.

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EE:

This week that you were off, the first week of June urn do you remember anything that stands out in your mind?

CA: EE: CA: EE:

Caylee and I swim in the pool everyday. Pool everyday? Pool everyday... You had her almost everyday?

CA: I had her every single day, pool every day, urn urn went shopping a couple of days with her, I can't remember which days... EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: Remember what stores? Oh (sight) grocery store probably Publix urn... What what Publix do you normally shop at? Urn Lee Vista the one...the newest one by us. Okay. Urn... I can't believe how much that's developed down there... Yea I know um... Publix Lee Vista. Urn gosh... An unknown date on that just sometime in...? Yea I know I would stop at Publix at least once and then may have taken her may not have taken her but I know I went anyway Publix once or twice but I probably took her and at least for a minute to get something urn... didn't do a whole lot, we stayed at home every day we stayed a lot, finger painted just did stuff, watch movies... um... EE: Pool, sand box, back yard?

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CA: EE: CA:

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Yea sand box not that often, No? No once in a great while maybe but not that not everyday, sand box wasn't an every day thing cause that's... that's kind of like a big deal.

CA:
4 5 6

JM: CA:

Does Caylee used to wear water wings or anything in the pool? Um Caylee has a vest... Okay. She has a life vest that zips up and then it has a snap that comes thru and that was um something we always had on her before we even went outside we (inaudible) her from head to toe, put her swimmers on her and then put her swimsuit on and then put the life vest on in the screen porch before we would you know we'll go outside.

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YM: EE :

Life vest life vest was you normally kept where in the house? Um is is I know exactly where is at, is in the um one of the deck box on our screen porch, is in there.

YM:

And still there right? Still there and she also has a now that's what I use now Casey if she took Caylee to friends or whatever she had actually a one piece um... kind of looks like urn... scuba diver outfit that has the fill in vest is a Dora one and actually one of her Casey's friends brought that over urn a weekend or so brought one of her bathing suits, her Dora swim you know... and...

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YM:

Who brought that over? Good question, I can picture him I'm not sure if his name is Chris or what his name is all of urn...the kids got together either last Friday or Saturday at the house after we have George and I had a video urn... and no wait a minute, it

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wasn't after the video thing... yea it was after the video thing so it was either Friday or Saturday they had already urn talked to Casey so either Friday night or Saturday night, the kids came over and just they were all of her friends like to come over and talk about things and we were trying to figure out her time you know her mood and different things like that and trying to figure out where she might have been and... EE: CA: The 25th? Where Caylee was... um were talking (Over talking) July... you guys can figure out what day I think we went on a Friday, George and I had our video um conference with Casey and I think was a Friday. Thursday or Friday, you helped arranged it the same day they went... yea we cause we went right after him. YM: CA: That's the friend that brought the the swimsuit back? Well it was either that Friday night or the next night, we had a pow wow I can call one of the kids Andy or Corey and they would know exactly which day they came to the house, and they came and Ricardo we had invited Ricardo, this was actually the second time Ric had gotten together, the first time... YM: CA: Who brought the swimsuit? I think his name is Chris I had never met him before, he is blond I'm not... don't hold me to Chris... excuse me someone is calling... EE: CA: That's the that's... He brought a bag, Casey had left a bag of stuff at his house and inside the bag was all Caylee's stuff; there was an orange swimming suit, the Dora... thing and he when Caylee wore that (inaudible...) she would wear it typically over a bathing suit or her swimmers. YM: And the Dora what? Urn...

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CA: YM: EE:

Is a is a wet suit that has... Okay A build in life vest there's a um... build in life vest in the front that's sewed in and then on the back and it has the sleeves and went down to about here on her legs so is a one piece thing that you pull you know that she got into.

YM: CA: YM: CA:

Right. They had a zip in the back that she could climb into. What else did he bring? Urn there was a couple of swimmers in it and... maybe a comb and maybe a couple of all hair things or something.

EE: CA:

When was this again, I'm sorry. Urn the either the day or the day after urn George and I had that video conference.

EE: CA: EE: CA: YM:

Oh okay so he brought this stuff then? Urn huh (affirmative) Okay. Yea. Is uh how did uh how did Chris know about the the meeting at the house, did you reach out to him someone...?

CA: No urn Annie and Corey um which are really good friends of Casey and Shawn... EE: CA: Dolling Annie Dolling? You know yea as long as I've known Annie I really didn't even know her last name. YM: So Annie and Corey were friends of Chris? (Inaudible)

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CA:

Yea they probably a lot of the friends that (inaudible) there's a lof of the urn_ the friends that carne over Torey and urn Ricardo came that night... um the first (inaudible) we had was after the first um candle light vigil that we had was right that first Sunday after urn Caylee was urn missing or that I reported it on the 15 th th or something...? Is sowhatevrd Sunywas,ht e.20 the (inaudible) that's the first time the kids were already there (Over talking...) Well I just wanted to explain why were had that...

YM: CA:

Oh I (Over talking) The kids were already (Over talking) yea the kids were already there at the vigil and they wanted they sit there and wait, sat around and... shot the breeze afterwards and they said look can we do it again Mrs. Anthony and I said... yea whenever you guys want and I said you guys (Over talking)

YM: CA: YM: CA: EE: YM: CA: EE: CA:

Let's go back to Chris (inaudible) friend Annie Donnelly and Corey? Corey um... .. um.... Ricardo Morales was there... Troy... No but who who brought the...the reason the (Over talking...) I don't know who called all these people I don't know if it was Annie... (inaudible) because we need to find out who that fellows were that (inaudible.....) And obviously (Over talking) Annie would tell you. Annie? Annie and Corey (Over talking) can tell you exactly who all was there (Over talking...)

EE:

If you had to guess if you had to call if you had to (inaudible...) how would you do it?

CA:

Go thru Annie or Corey.

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EE: CA: EE: CA:

That's all I need (inaudible) Annie and Corey set it up. Okay. They're the ones that want to meet again they they were the ones that I didn't specifically ask um you know I just told them it would be nice to reach out to Ricardo.

EE:

That's the kind of stuff right now just so you know what were thinking, well there's a baby bag of baby items where were they? That that's a place that's...

CA: EE:

Yea. A place we need to look into.

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CA: I know. EE: CA: Well obviously she is been there. Well this person said he had left several messages for you and had been want to talk to you the first week and he had never return... YM: I can tell your right now I never got a message from Chris. CA: I'm just telling if is if Chris is his name because he said he you know he had called and said I you know... EE: Well if you see him tell him to call again...

CA: I probably won't see him unless they... have another meeting EE: CA: EE: CA: Just throwing it out there... (Over talking) to come to the house... Entertain me... because you see now with every with all the calls (Over talking...) Annie and Corey can tell you exactly who brought that bag to me, I want to say it might be his name might be Chris but Chris may not be the right name. EE: Let's go back to this this first week then of June...

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CA: EE:

Um huh (affirmative) If that's okay, pool um... you had the baby, the daughter Casey was working that whole weekend.

CA: EE: CA:

She was in and out I saw her every day I mean I can't I cant... Okay. Tell you her schedule, there was sometimes that we spent together too but it wasn't like we were gonna... you know we were thinking about going down to Fort Myers but we didn't end up going cause my dad um wasn't doing real well again so I kind of stayed close to home in case you know I was gonna go to Fort Myers on Monday and my mom had called me um the week before on that Thursday actually went up to Mount Dora on Friday before my vacation and stayed over night and then came back on Saturday; mom said he wasn't feeling very well so...

YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA:

You talking about Friday the...? So that's why I know now I didn't go to the beach. 29th over at Mount Dora? No. So the Friday before you vacation...? For my vacation... yes so that's why I know now I didn't go to the beach that day cause I slept (inaudible)

EE: CA: EE: CA: EE:

I'm thinking from what I... Okay... I'm thinking you probably went this weekend the seventh? Nope. No?

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here, told me to pack a bag he wasn't doing very well so on Friday after work I stayed over and I can probably... my mom could probably confirm that with her notes to my Aunt Mary Lou and then the 31 st would have been the night...day before my... vacation, I stayed there. That's why I stayed at home I we didn't want to go away I wanted to stay close to the house in case something happen with my dad that I could go up there real quick and I told my mom I'll come up you know any time that she needed me but I had spent the night and by the time I got up he was doing better and I spent the day then came back home. EE: CA: EE: So you didn't go to the beach Saturday (inaudible...) for sure? Didn't go to the beach that... yea. Okay.

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CA: And I know I didn't go Sunday cause George was working so it had to be... EE: This Saturday?

CA: Has had to be the 7th . EE: r and 8th ?

CA: 7 th and then the 8th (mumble...) EE: Okay does that that would that would be a line in Ricardo's account because Ricardo remembers Casey and Caylee staying... with him that that in the same time frame. CA: Okay cause Ricardo told us that he... she stayed with him... EE: No, no this is well...

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CA: Here and here had left there... EE: There?

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CA: Well I was back that night if I'm positive Caylee was with us.

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EE: CA: EE: CA:

Positive she was there that night? pretty positive she was with us that night. How about this night? Definitely that night because that's... that was the night before we back from vacation and I remember seen her cause remember I got confused that that was the night I know I saw her that night.

EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE:

Okay... all right the second week then you have this week off... Um huh (affirmative) Second week you go back to work. Um huh (affirmative) Was it the same kind of...? Yea normal routine, I mean I can't... But were not... I can't remember specifics... We don't know what night she was there?

CA: I mean I don't recall Caylee been gone over any nights if any maybe one and and the only time Casey ever told me the only places that Caylee would ever stay over was they were crashing at Zany's she never told me she was taking her to Ricardo's, never told me she was taking her anywhere else except Zany's um and to the point... EE: CA: Let me let me write that down real quick before I'm sorry... Anytime Caylee ever stayed away from the house Casey said she was with Zany. EE: Okay.

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CA:

And it wasn't that often that you know maybe at night here or there sporadically but she always said she was crashing at Zany's and that...

EE:

Now let me ask you this with that been said um... and just your interpretation as I'm going thru this thing is that is that because she knew she would mom doesn't want her in some boyfriends apartment staying over night?

CA: I don't know I didn't even know... EE: CA: Okay. Her and Ricardo were an item, I knew that he was a friend, she talked about Ricardo as a good friend um I did not realize that they were boyfriend and girlfriend but she had spoken of Ricardo. EE: Cause there's one there's one in particular that I want to get to that's that's there is a question in my mind and it this kind of feeds into what your saying then because you is obvious you daughter just from talking to her friends so far... had a great deal of loyalty to your desires and when you wanted that child home and the reason I feel that way is because one of the nights in particular... CA: EE: CA: EE: Well I think cause she should be home in her own bed. Most grandparents and parents do I I... (chuckle) I agree with you, so Ricardo says that on the 31 st of May that they stayed over there when they went to sleep but when he woke up Casey was still there but the baby was gone and what Casey told him was you had called upset because the baby wasn't in her own bed and she got up brought the baby home and then went back to Ricardo's because I'm just tell those are one of the things "bink" is obvious that there is a chain of command there and she is trying to adhere to it... CA: Yea.

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7119

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EE: CA: EE:

That's what I'm getting at.

I don't remember on the 31 st (unintelligible) is...


Was it but an incident like that stand out in your mind that she brought the baby home because...?

CA: EE:

Not in the morning no... No? No, no, no I'm talking like during the night uh...

CA: No I don't know... EE:


No?

CA: I never called Casey and told her to bring her home to me... EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:
Never? In the middle of the night. Okay. Except for the 15th The 15th ? When I told her she's bringing her home. Okay. Is when she said no I'll wait till tomorrow I said no...... no that doesn't um... stand out something like that I would remember.

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EE:

Okay I just have to throw it out there; these are the questions that I need to iron out with you.

CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:

No problem. Um the... the um... Can I have this one too? You did... Yea that that's those are yours. Thank you.

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1 EE:
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We can get more. Cause I'm (inaudible) bottle of water like crazy... I'm gonna have more okay thank you urn the 9 th ... You want me to refill that first one for you so you can have one? Here (inaudible) in there... You want a Mountain Dew or something? No water. Cause I do. Here. Hint, hint, hint (laughs...) That's a good guy (inaudible door closes...) um... yes now I keep referring to this and I I'm almost...

CA: EE: YM: CA: EE: CA: EE: YM:

10 CA :
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EE:

CA: EE:

That's okay. I'm almost embarrassed about the (inaudible) that's just how (inaudible...) urn... the 9th the week of the 9th you go back to work...

CA: EE: CA : EE:

Urn huh (affirmative) You go back to work. Urn huh (affirmative) And I'm just trying to look to where I know people say they... your absolutely right Ricardo's um... he the 9 th he says they stayed there and... I have to re look at his his statement...

CA:

They could have been one or two night that they said they stayed at Zany's because it seemed like starting in May and June it was more frequent that they crashed at Zany's but not more than one or two days at a time until... after June you know urn 16th then there was a story every every day.

31 Cindy, Anthony/Case #08-069208/LP

EE:

Urn?

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15

CA: But up until that it was no more than one or two days ever strung together and it did seemed like it was more urn in May you know it started it... EE: She would call you and say that the baby is at Zany's staying the night when I'm going to Ricardo's cause... CA: No what she would say is urn... I'm gonna crash at work I'm gonna you know
mom I have to work late I'm just gonna leave Caylee with Zany's because I have

to get up in the morning and I'm gonna stay at Zany's and that way I can go on to work so she was gonna crash at Zany's. Um Casey never came home and left Caylee anywhere else that would have been a red flag and she would have known I would have been irritated as heck and would have made her go back and get her because you don't leave someone at the babysitter's. EE: Well that might play into it and you might not remember now but that may play into why she brought her home that night on the 31 st . CA: Yea but I never had said that but that's what I would have done. EE: Okay.

16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

CA: I mean she knows me well enough that I would have done that so she might have just figure that one out her self and said that to him. EE: Okay that make sense. CA: I mean we, I never came up that way but Casey knew that... EE: Where were at with time, I don't want to make you...

CA: Okay I think we're good so far... EE: Okay. CA: As long as were out of here by 11:30. EE: Okay.

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CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:

And we got another hour and ten minutes. I just don't want to... And I don't mind doing this at all cause that that helps. It it helps us be able to focus on this instead of... Well see that's what we were kind of doing with the kids, were trying to figure out where...

EE:

Well that's fine and I personally met with Jesse and we went over his calendar book and I realized that there was more in the (inaudible) than just his...

8
9

CA:

Well let me tell you I went day by day with Jesse and he's got a lot of discrepancies, in fact I wrote down everything as he was talking to me and he changed his story two and three times.

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EE: CA: EE: CA:

If you have something like that (Over talking) I'll bring it in the next time.
Please. Because he sword to me that... eight there was an eighteen minute conversation on June 27th that he had with Casey that she invited him out to Fusions to cheer him up, he told me it was June 27 th and I was writing it as he is talking and I said you you're sure June 27 th ? He goes absolutely it was that Friday that we went out and I says well you talked to her for eighteen minutes did you hear Caylee in the background, did she talked about Caylee? He goes yea I asked her where she was and she says she was with the babysitter at the beach so I have that written down.

EE: CA:

Okay. Well then... last weekend or the I don't know this it doesn't even seem like is two weeks, it seems like is been one day...

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EE: CA:

You see how I have all this calendars? Right but urn... George uh Jesse called George and said I need to speak with your wife and he says well she is busy, he goes well I got to tell her something and he goes well tell me and I'll pass it, he goes I got my date wrong it was the
24th and um about the date that Casey invited me out; well then he is going to the

media and saying specifically that that conversation that he heard (door closes) Casey tell Caylee to get off the table, now during the whole time when I was sitting there talking to urn Jesse that Saturday after all of this happened um... when he was in my home... he urn he was sure of all of his you know he was sure about everything (inaudible) now you haven't talk to Caylee or Casey during this whole time frame? Absolutely not, are you absolutely sure? Absolutely not, so that was a big red flag when he changed the story going to the media that he had heard Caylee EE: CA: On the 24th? Yea or even that he had even heard Caylee's voice because he maintained the whole time that the babysitter had her from what Casey said and that was not and he believed all that so like I said, I can... EE: Those are the reasons that...

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CA: I have like seven pages of stuff that I asked him, you know how Lee was is doing
it? I did the same thing to Jesse cause he was my first... he was my first person I

had thought of that had a motive that could intimidate Casey enough to keep her mouth shut and that would threaten us because... um he is that type of person. EE: CA: Why are you saying that? Because... he was in my home every day and I got to know himmrurn and I got to see his anger and rage because he took it out on me one day, couple of times

34 Cindy, Anthony/Case #08-069208/LP

urn while they were engaged. And from the day Caylee was born he was in her
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

life and he is stayed in her life off and on. And Casey doesn't you know she gets very like stay away from him mom, like that kind of thing and even if you guys watch our taped interviewed I asked her specifically about people and she's every the only person she said don't talk to, she says stay away from Jesse. And she looked freighted when she said that so... EE: Let me ask you something about that incident with anger or rage, can you tell me about that? CA: Yes I'm gonna tell you exactly what it was, George and I urn right after Caylee was born, right around November or somewhere around Thanksgiving um we had some issues and about the first or second week of December he and I separated for a while urn we were separated until June and... this was before Ca Caylee's first birthday, Caylee was born in August so this is (inaudible) you know so 2005 urn it was somewhere after urn... Jesse and Casey gotten engaged so it was sometime after January cause they got engaged on New Years Day he proposed to her New Years Eve and urn so it had to be maybe probably... EE: CA: EE: CA: Was that a happy time for you or no? About as far as that engagement... Urn... I'm just trying to... get a feel for what (inaudible) It was... I could tell Jesse really cared because the way that he did a paternity test that first week Jesse's idea to do the paternity test was very disappointed that Caylee wasn't his and blah blah blah, Jesse did not want Jesse didn't want to believe that it was his baby but I could tell the first night ...um after meeting him he came back and I came back up to see Casey and the baby cause we had been there all night long urn... Jesse had gotten cleaned up, I came back to visit

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and he was... it was they looked like a family and he was dating someone else at that time, he was over in Tampa dating another person at that time which I cant

3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

remember the girls name but Casey said she used to be a nanny just to let you know that that his friend because at one point Casey said that Jesse's friend could help watch Caylee and that was...

EE: CA:

Jesse's new girlfriend used to be a nanny? Yea well is actually his old girlfriend, the girl that he was dating um then he was starting to date Casey and then he went back to his old girlfriend when Casey and he kind of separated and this was during I guess while Casey was pregnant she didn't say anything to Jesse until the morning Caylee was born.

EE:

So the girl that used to be...?

CA: I never met her, don't really know her name. EE:
Was Jesse's girlfriend before your daughter started dating him was a nanny? No you don't know her name?

CA: No I can't remember her name um Casey had told it to me but I can't remember
it.

EE: CA: EE: CA:

Okay. But Casey said that she babysat... Okay. And she had babysat and that she could potentially even after they broke up that she could potentially be a um a babysitter.

EE: CA: EE: CA:

Okay. For Caylee and again I cant remember the name. Sorry I made you jump topics there... No that's okay.

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What does he what does he (Over talking...) But the incident was... I'm sorry? The anger and rage and (inaudible) Okay the incident, George and I started sometime around maybe February, March really starting to talk about maybe working things out again and our anniversary is in March around March 19 th um we spend sometime in urn Fort Myers I went down there cause that's where he was staying and I know it wasn't on my anniversary but it was either like a week or so before a week or so after but somewhere in March he had come up and we had gone out to the movies and when we got back we say Jesse's truck outside...and it was after midnight when we got back...

CA: EE: CA:

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JM: CA:

This is March of what year? Urn 2006 cause it was before Caylee's first birthday and urn... we got back inside usually... they're sitting on the couch watching TV well you know our house, you come in they're usually sitting on the couch, when we came in I heard the TV in Casey's room, we knew Jesse was there so...we walked in the room and Jesse is in Casey's bed um they're watching TV and the baby is with them... George was furious and I said don't say anything cause at that point it wasn't his house
so is my house you know he wasn't the man in the house because he wasn't

living there so urn... I told George don't worry about it calm down I'll take care of it
so I walked him out and he went on to his hotel and urn I came back in and I

told... Casey that I said I took her to the kitchen, I told her I said I'm gonna talk to you, took her to the kitchen then I said what the hell is he doing in your bed? And she says mom were just watching TV I said I understand that Casey and they were dressed it didn't matter, I said Casey you know the rules, I said no boys in

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-1181

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your bedroom unless were home, the door is always open and the door was open but I said no one is on your bed, she goes well you know we were just laying there because Caylee I said it doesn't matter you could have put Caylee down in the crib, the rule still apply... well he didn't really say anything that night but Casey went and ask him to leave, the next day I heard (inaudible) got really upset with me said that I was wrong, was yelling at me said I had no right...

YM: CA: YM: CA:

is that at your house? At my house... So he came back? Yea I have no right to... to tell him, he heard the things that I told Casey cause I said get him the hell out of my house, I don't want him in your room you know I was upset and um... so he you know I said Jesse is my house, my rules. I said you have to respect that, if you don't respect that then you know were gonna have an issue because your not married to my daughter yet and I said just because your engaged or whatever doesn't still doesn't change the rules of this house and I said you need to respect those and I mean he got very angry a shouting match and you know to the point were I felt very uncomfortable and that was the first turning point were I thought this kid is not a good person for my daughter because number one you know I started seen... as time went on he was real good um like I said when George was there and stuff like that but as time went on I mean he was just there all the time. He was there babysitting Caylee um he come in, he just... lounge around he'll be in his you know... he just hang out you know and um I come home and you know he be there watching Caylee, Casey be working and she was still actually working at um Universal at that time

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well not for Universal but for Color Vision at that time, she never did work for Universal was... YM; CA: You mean Kodak right? Kodak and then Color Vision, Color Vision... took over when Kodak lost their contract... but anyway um... EE: Let me get clarification on that so there's time were he was at the home with the baby but everybody else was gone? CA: EE: CA: Right. So he was part of the family really? Yea I mean he... um I wasn't real thrill with him been in and out of the house by him self but you know that was...that was Casey you know a lot of times I thought he was gonna she was gonna take him over to his mom's house you know because of once in a great while his mom or his urn dad would watch Caylee at the house while they were dating you know while they were engaged and stuff cause they still thought that they were gonna be grandparents potentially and things like that urn... but a lot of times you know they be there, he'll be there every night you know at the house and... EE: CA: EE: Can I can I and this is gonna be... I don't mean to intrude but... No go ahead. Was there a rift at the time between Jesse and Casey or you and Jesse anything like that... CA: EE: CA: EE: The only rift... When you found out that they were it wasn't his child... No absolutely not in fact urn that week you know it was urn... I'm just trying to determine what was (inaudible...)

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CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:

She had the (Over talking) yes... Frustration (Over talking...) Right no urn the frustration between him and I.. . Yea. Started that night that he did not respect my wishes, you know the next day when he...

EE: CA:

That's long after the child (inaudible) Yea that was that was like in May up until that I mean um um March up until that I mean it was very you know it was a decent relationship, he even came and asked our permission before and George and I were separated it was around Christmas time or a couple of weeks before Christmas, asked our permission if he could um ask Casey to marry him and George and I weren't a hundred percent, George always had a little bit of feelings like he wasn't real sure of this kid but really didn't have an opportunity to spend a lot of time with him urn,.. wasn't really a fan of as father but just kind of you know put up with him because potentially you know could be related and you know some ways an in law (inaudible) kind of like a...

8
9

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EE: CA:

Setting a foundation for future relation? Yea trying to be be good and this is what Casey wants, this is what your gonna do urn... after I saw you know him in a different light and he was always one that it would have an opinion, very strong opinion, if he watch a TV show he'll have opinion about you know what they were talking about...

EE: CA:

Jesse? Jesse did and if you didn't agree with him he kind of like well you guys are wrong blah, blah, blah I mean Casey and (inaudible) either George and I are kind of and

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since (inaudible) was Lee we all you know we say our opinion, we all value each others opinion, no one says well you absolutely wrong or blah, blah you know? Especially when is a topic that's not factual things or whatever.

EE:

Can I ask you while you're on that thought process... um because I know the question keeps coming up about the father, the biological father maybe from been right there at this uh and that was something get to toward the end but is there any any conversation that would help us to identify that person so we can answer those questions.

CA: EE : CA :

Well Casey and George and I actually went to an attorney... Okay. And had urn um everything and you know put in urn legal will and all that stuff in case something ever happened to Caylee...

YM: CA : YM: CA: YM: CA :

Is that Paul? Or Casey... I'm sorry? Paul? Paul didn't do it he sent us to one of his friends that does family urn law... Who who is that? You know I I have it in the strong box I can pull it; I can't remember his name but...

YM: CA : YM: CA:

You have the paperwork of the (Over talking) He has paperwork of it... The child father's name? No biological father was never documented because is never on the birth certificate.

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EE:

Who is that then?

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Um I believe his first name is Eric and if I heard his last name I would know it but I cant remember, it really didn't urn I really didn't stand out because from what Casey told me he had come into town, they were old friends from school um they got together, Eric was going thru a though time, Casey was in between urn friends and they just had a one night stand.

YM: CA: YM: CA:

So their old friends from school? Yea she's... Like High School? I'm not sure how far back it goes but she had known him thru her High School and whether or not they went to school cause he Ryan was one of her best friends but they they you know they didn't go...

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YM: CA:

Casey? Yea he didn't go to High School with her, he went to Bishop Moore but they went to Middle School and Elementary School together but they remain friends.

YM:

So Eric wasn't just someone she met; Eric is someone that she went to school with?

CA: YM: CA:

Someone that she had known during... This is according to Casey? This is what she had told me way back when I mean this was... you know urn when I found out that... Jesse wasn't the father cause then I asked her who else could it be...

YM: CA: EE: YM:

You ever meet Eric? No. Who was...? You never you never met Eric? Never had dinner with him (inaudible...) over?

42 Cindy, Anthony/Case #08-069208/LP

1 CA: No.
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YM: Urn give any parental rights; he never came by to visit (Over talking) CA: No... he (Over talking) he lived out of state...

YM: Right. CA: From what she had said either Tennessee, Kentucky... YM: But you saying you never met him? CA: Never met him. YM: You guys never had dinner with him? CA: Never... the thing that was urn by the time Casey realized when she was pregnant that it wasn't Jesse's cause she thought it was Jesse's urn that she knew it it would have to be one other person so that would have to be you know this person Eric, I think his name was Eric. YM: So what legal paperwork did the attorney filed? CA: Well he drew up was in case something happened to Casey then custody would be given directly to my self and to George. YM: Okay so had nothing to do with custody (over talking) CA: Had nothing to do with that but we also talked about all that thought, he asked us is the father involved, do you want to draw up anything for alimony anything like that? We said no absolutely not because,.. he is not on the birth certificate, the guy has no claim to Cal he never... he never... YM: So he wouldn't have any any names that you mentioned at the time that you might have heard the last name now... CA: We may have given it to the attorney, he may have it I don't know I'll have to go back and look at that stuff. YM: That that would be wonderful if we can (over talking)

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CA:

I'll pull that up and see what I have; we have it I have an envelope at the house that has all the paperwork we got from the attorney.

YM: CA: EE:

Excellent, excellent. For that... Who uh if let's say tragically something were to happened to you and George and Casey who was going to be the God parents, do you know?

CA:

Um you know what I don't know if we thought that prior I cant remember if we put Lee down or not...

EE:

Okay.

CA: I'll have to see probably would have been Lee next urn if it would have been um... EE: So we've addressed the issue if something happens to Casey like a almost... um... CA: EE: CA: Like if... To come to you, you would have... Yes I would have custody custody and then I have power of attorney at any point if I needed to like you know anything would happen, if Casey wasn't around I could do whatever I needed. EE: So if she if she heavens forbid but a lot of kids do it drop the ball miserably and wasn't the good mother that some teenagers can't... you would you had the paperwork (Over talking) CA: That wasn't the reason why we did it, we did it in case something happen to her plus also it was also a statement that there was no other legal person that bounded themselves to Caylee. EE: Parallel safety net.

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CA: EE: CA:

Right. Yea got you... And... by the time Caylee was born this Eric person would have already been married from what Casey had told me and Casey states that she's kept in contact with Eric's widow. So she knows his um...

YM: CA:

Who said this? Casey told me this... um she told me this that... she told um a year or so ago that Eric had contacted her and said that there was a potential possibility that he maybe... moving to Florida at some point somewhere around... um maybe urn I cant remember if she said Gainesville, Jacksonville somewhere up northern Florida and wanted to get together with her and see if at some point down the road and not you know but when they move down here, him and his wife and I guess Caylee has a half brother, I guess his wife and him had a baby which is younger than Caylee urn that they could ever maybe just... you know be friends and then down the road eventually to fill up a relationship so that the kids would kind of know each other and realize that they're half brother and sister. Urn and Casey told me she told him flat out no. And I told her my self, I said you know you might want to entertain that idea because at some point down the road Caylee may need to have a half brother...

YM: CA:

Urn huh (affirmative) Medical reasons or something like that so plus if she ever found out later on that she had a half brother that you said she could never meet you never know how kids...

YM:

Yea.

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CA:

You know (Over talking) I'm just saying, I just told her keep an open mind and she was adamant that no mom I really don't want him in our her life, I don't want her getting confuse blah, blah, blah she doesn't she doesn't know about a daddy no one ever called daddy...

EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:

Did Eric ever try to do the stand up thing and contact you and say...? No. Never? No it was a mutual thing. Was it because he was unaware or because...? No she states that he was aware right away that they talked about it but he had was already um... already um... either engaged to be married and then shortly after was married after Caylee was born.

YM:

Just (inaudible) too far off track you said that Casey was in touch with Eric's widow how how was that?

CA:

She got in touch with Casey and told her um right after Eric died Annie knows the exact date when Eric passed away.

YM: CA:

Does Annie know who Eric is? No but Annie remembers getting a phone call from Casey and I remember getting a phone call from Casey as well stating that Eric had died in a car accident. I cant remember when it is you know I want to say it was this year somewhere around Casey's birthday in March but I cant say, it could have been last year on Caylee's birthday; it was around a major birthday either Casey's or Caylee's birthday.

YM:

Tell me about the widow how how how the widow get in touch with uh Casey?

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CA:

Casey urn and urn... she said she called urn the widow called Casey and told her and then Casey actually had an obituary and believe it or not I remember seen the obituary and never paid a bit of attention to the kids name or anything else because... it was almost like actual closure then, it wasn't a big deal to me because I already knew we had already taken every precaution that someone could step in later on and say hey this is... um my child and I'm gonna take it away from Casey.

YM: CA:

Where where did he died was...? Again either Tennessee or Kentucky one of the northern states north or you know north...

YM: CA:

So another state? It was not Florida, it was not and it was not Jose Ortiz I don't know where the heck that name is coming from that's out in the media right now, Jose Ortiz I never heard that name before...

EE: CA:

What's this I haven't heard that... Yea yesterday (Over talking...) I mean that's how...

YM: I explained to you that we don't even (Over talking) CA: I don't even know how that came about someone asked of who Ort Jose (Over talking...) EE: Sorry I don't mean to pick a scab that doesn't need to waist our times (Over talking) CA: I don't even know where that came from, I never heard that name in my entire life so...... EE: Okay.

YM: I don't know how you veered off the dates I didn't want to interrupt you...

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Well we start to talk about Jesse and then you talked about paternity things like that.

EE:

Yea cause I wanted to go into Jesse was (inaudible) the house during this time frame that you could recall.

CA:

Jesse had not been to our house that I was aware of um... since they broke up, the last time I knew Jesse was at the house was sometime in June when they broke up George and I still were not back together again.

EE: CA:

June of...? Urn 200... oh gosh we got back together just before Caylee's second birthday... no before Caylee's first birthday, before Caylee's first birthday so 2006. They didn't they were only engaged about six months so it had to be 2006. That was the last time I saw Jesse at the house, it was sometime in June.

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YM:

Was there and forgive me for (Over talking...) then later, was there any paperwork for divorce file between you and George?

CA: YM:

Yes I filed um and the he filed urn actually went down the clerk of court... When were those re send it or when were those I guess (inaudible) by you guys when you guys decide to say were not gonna go thru this (inaudible)

CA:

We never I don't know if I don't I think we just left left the time laps I got served I think urn the 2 nd of June I mean 2 nd of um... January of 2006, I had gone down to the clerk of courts cause urn... and picked up all the paperwork...

YM: CA:

Um huh (affirmative)
And I actually gave it to handed to him which you can do without having them serve, well he took the paperwork that I gave him, took it to an attorney and have them serve me. Well I was trying to save all this court cost and do all this other stuff we could have... something done for what? Four hundred bucks...

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Have you guys let (inaudible) laps and... Yea once he got... once he... Was Jesse there before laps after or while this was going on? Yea he was still I don't think he was there that day I had actually gone down to Fort Myers to talk to George before I got served urn about something because I I had given him the paper work and I wanted him to sign it.

CA: YM: CA:

YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: EE:

You said served beginning of 06 or beginning of 07? 06 (Over talking) cause we were back together in 06 like I said it was only.... Okay. It was only a few months that we were separated. Sorry back to Jesse. That's okay. This week urn I just have questions about from talking to other people did did George on the Friday of the 13th did you guys end up down at ORMC or any other hospital because George had any kind of medical condition?

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CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE:

No. No hospital visit? No. He hasn't had a stroke? No that was what Amy... told me, no George...

I have I've I...


Had not been in a hospital for a couple of years. Yea because she was I guess Casey was supposed to go to Jacksonville that day.

CA: EE:

That's what Amy told me. Okay.

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CA: EE: CA:

To help her pick up her brand new car because her car had gotten total. Right. Which is funny because Casey told me that Zany just got a brand new car because her car had gotten total.

EE: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA:

When did she tell you that? She told me that um...the third week of June cause she told me that um... So this is after the 15 th? Yea it was that week after that Monday after the 15 th . Did she say what happened? Yea she said that they were coming back...this is some of the information that I shared with urn the FBI and told them to make sure they shared with you because... um all this stuff did not make any sense to me.

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YM: CA:

Well where did she tell you this happened? About Amy, she told this is when she told me that they were in Jacksonville I mean not Jacksonville, Tampa um... let me see the twin calendar (inaudible)

EE: CA: EE: CA:

Come on over. Cause I gave the time line to um Scott Bolien... Urn huh (affirmative) Well what Casey told me where she was at or she says she was at when we would call everyday, this is June...

EE: CA:

Urn huh (affirmative) Okay... this is when... okay this is the...this is the morning George saw you know he saw last saw them about 10 to 1 just before urn he went to work...

EE:

Okay.

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CA:

Casey and Caylee leaving like any normal day, she had told me she was going to work, dropping urn... Caylee of at Zany's.

EE: CA:

What time did you leave that day for work? Probably 7:15 7:20 cause that was my early day, I had to be at work... by 8:00 so...

EE: CA:

Okay. Okay I knew they were in bed that day cause the door was shut so my last physical day that I saw them was the 15 th but I knew they were there the 16 th .

EE:

But just in the stress of the moment on...the 15 th over here you said the 8 th because you had other things going thru that...

CA: I was thinking it was associated with me going back to work not associate with father's day, you know how you try to trigger something that may remember (over talking...) see my dad I had seen my dad you know somewhere around that and I knew saw my dad on the 8 th did not realize it was back to back. EE: CA: EE: CA: Okay. Difference um... But you pointed to this for some reason? Yea Casey told me starting here that she was crashing at Zany's, the 16 th she was crashing at the babysitters and then it went to Tuesday crashing at Zany's because she had an early morning again and then on the I know I wont give you time to write...we still have time... on the 18 th she told me that... EE: CA: EE: Casey told you... Casey told me that Zany and... um... Caylee?

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Zany and Caylee and Annabelle, Annabelle was Juliet Louis's... daughter who was a co worker I mean this is what she told me was a co worker that they were gonna stay at Hard Rock um... Hotel because they were doing they had some convention that they had to work on.

EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:

Okay. So they stayed at Hard Rock thru the 20th . Zany and the baby stayed thru the 20th ? Um huh (affirmative) with with both children, Zany was watching both children. Where she stay? Casey was staying at the hotel too after her meeting she would go back to the hotel and that was till the 20th and then from the 20th they moved the conference she said to Tampa that a hotel I think she said the Marriott outside of Bush Gardens.

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YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA:

Was Annie staying at the Hard Rock too? Yea watching the girls while... And Zany went to Tampa too? Yea and um... So how who who paid for Zany's room? Um Casey said that it was the it was paid for thru her work. Thru whose work Casey's? Casey's and Juliet's work. They paid for Zany's room? It was Casey's and Juliet's room Zany stayed there babysitting the girls. Oh so they they stayed three in a room plus... Yes...

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YM: CA: EE: YM: CA:

Zany's child plus... Zany doesn't have a child. Zany has no child? No Juliet's child. Juliet's child, Zany was there for the babysitter of the two girls while the the two adults went to work...

YM: CA: YM: CA: EE: CA:

Okay. It was the situation at least that's what she said. While they (Over talking) That's what she that's what she told me. Okay. Now Casey called me in the morning on Saturday and told me that she was they were wrapping things up and urn they were probably be home later that day but then I got a phone call later that day it said there was something one last meeting that they had to go to so they were gonna go home on Sunday, leave from um... you know Bush Gardens on Sunday the 22 nd ...

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EE: CA: YM:

One last meeting... Yea so they were gonna stay over another night. Would would Casey never can call your phone if you're at work like during the week when she's telling you all this or would she call you at work?

CA:

Once in a great while she may leave me a message at work to call her but usually she call my cell phone.

YM: CA: EE:

Okay so she called your work number it would be just to leave a message or...? Yea typically. Bear with me...

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Now (inaudible) What are your numbers? My work numbers um (407) 629-7992... 629... 7 7992... Urn huh (affirmative) With Juntiva right? Yes and then my cell phone is (407) 808-4731. Okay. Now on the 22 nd I talked to her in the morning, she said that urn... Zany actually I think she said Zany's room mate urn has come in... Raquel that's right Raquel was with her, she said Raquel was with her urn when they went to Bush Gardens
SO

EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: YM: CA: EE: CA:

it was the 21 st , Zandy and her room mate were together.

EE: CA: EE: CA:

She called you the 22 nd told you that? Yea.... So they were gonna stay at the park for the day? But they were gonna stay at the park for the day urn because Zany had taken Zany and Raquel had taken urn the girls to see the animals at Bush Gardens and stuff like that.

YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA:

You ever meet Raquel? No. You ever meet Juliet? No. Okay. Never met Zany...

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YM: Oh we know that I was just (Over talking) CA: I know but I'm just saying never met them. YM: What about Jennifer? CA: No but she talked about Raquel and Jennifer long time ago as been Zany's room mates... Urn... EE: When did they get back? CA: Well... here is the deal they ended up staying at the park so that Casey and Juliet could actually enjoy the park too so all four adults and the two girls went to the park that day and then she said they stayed one more night and was on their way back Monday morning on the 23 rd . YM: And where is the accident? CA: On the 23 rd . YM: Okay. CA: She said it was just they were just getting off... I haven't heard from Casey all day they she had told me that they were suppose to be home by around noon urn I... YM: Monday? CA: Yea on Monday I think at some point I called George and asked if she had he had heard from Casey or she gotten home, I cant remember what time and he said no so urn I think I left Casey a message or two to find out what was going on because I just wanted to make sure they got back safely... I finally got Casey finally called me back cause she hadn't call me back cause she hadn't call me back all day and I was a little bit worried and realize she wasn't home I thought I had a little sick feeling that something wasn't right, so urn she finally called me back later urn in the evening probably after 5:30 cause I was already leaving

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work and she apol she was apologizing she says mom I know I should have call you... EE: CA: YM: CA: This day? Yea that day. A little after 5:30? Some time after 5:30 I'm sure cause I it was on my way home from work when

YM: CA:

On your cell phone? Yea it was on my cell phone, I'm pretty positive um at some point she called me back, I know it wasn't at work. She may have tried to call me at work but...

YM: CA:

And what she say what happen? She told me that they had gotten to that she, her and Zany I mean Raquel and Zany were um about eight cars ahead of her and Juliet and the girls... Casey had her car, Zany had their car so Zany and Raquel were ahead and somehow there was an accident and Casey and Juliet witnessed the accident so they followed um them, the paramedics to the hospital and I asked her, I says was it Tampa General? She said yea so she said they went to Tampa General Hospital.

EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:

So they're all at Tampa General? Yea. On the 23rd sometime... Yes. After 5:30? Yea well they were there during it had the accident happened in the morning is what she said but I found out about it when Casey finally called me back, she

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apologize to me for not calling her back sooner but she said they were tied up, she was there in the ER with um you know with um Zany and Raquel. EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: So Zany was treated...? That's what she said. For an injury? Yes and I think I told you guys that... At Tampa General? To check that out urn huh (affirmative) Okay well we'll get pass that we (unintelligible) do it now I mean if it was an oversight we'll just move past... CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: Yea I I... Okay. I told someone if not Yuri I told Sergeant Allen about it. Well that's that's the kind of that's why were in here. Right. All right. Urn... That's pretty significant. Yea she said that um... Raquel had a broken arm and... she said that they finally got a hold of Raquel's mom, Raquel's morn lives was coming from Jacksonville to come down and be with her... EE: CA: EE: Broken arm and what kind of injuries did Zany have? She said Zany had a concussion. Concussion?

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CA:

Urn huh (affirmative) and she thought she had put a call into Zany and sister and her sister couldn't bring her come up urn come up that night so Casey stayed with her and I was a little upset with Casey cause I told her I said well where is Caylee, I said where is Caylee? She says well Juliet went back to the hotel cause it was you know just real close, she said they had barely gotten on to the interstate and I believed she said it was... they had just gotten on 75 um so they went back to the hotel, she was able to get back into the hotel and she was with the girls, Juliet was watching Annabelle and Caylee.

EE:

So she stayed over from the due to the accident on the 23 rd she stayed over in Tampa again on the 24 th at a hotel?

CA: EE: CA:

Right only she stayed at the hospital with urn... Casey said she... Casey all night at the hospital? Yes and she had told me, I talked to her the next morning and she said that um there is potential that Zany was gonna be released, that Raquel urn...

EE: CA: EE: CA:

Zany was an overnighter? Yea that broke well actually it lasted a little longer (inaudible) to explain. Okay. Urn that Raquel's mom was gonna take her urn... back to um her apartment back in Orlando, Zany's and Raquel's apartment and get Raquel seen and she actually told me that she was gonna be seen at at Jewett were I used to work at urn...

EE: CA: EE: CA:

Jewett Orthopedic Clinic? Yea. For a concussion? No, no, no Raquel (Over talking...) broken shoulder yea broken arm.

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EE: YM: CA:

Okay. Broken shoulder, broken arm? Well (inaudible) shoulder for you know upper arm is what she said so... um anyway um... later on that day they were gonna release Zany but she said they had found Zany started vomiting she says...

EE:

24th?

CA: ... Blacking out she was suppose to go home that day, didn't but they kept her overnight because she was starting to vomit and have blackouts so they were working her up a little bit more and she said they also found that she had a laceration behind her ear, she was real specific... laceration behind her ear and urn they had to give her some stitches and then urn... EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: She had a cut behind the ear... Yea. That nobody triaged or they missed? ... Uh I guess. And a concussion injury? Concussion... well sounded like sounds concussion she was vomiting and blacking out. EE: CA: Urn huh (affirmative) Urn so they kept kept her overnight, she also started complaining of some difficulty breathing and she said she had a um... um a fracture rib and it was pushing on her lung but didn't puncture the lung. YM: CA: YM: So Casey was staying in Tampa... Yes. While Zany was in the hospital.

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YM: So she stayed from the 24th to the 25th? CA: Yes she's told me that urn... on Wednesday...urn...over here on the 24 th that the sister had come up Zany's sister had... EE: CA: EE: She said her name? No... I think her name... Stephanie or something like that... Steff... But she arrives the 24th ?

CA: Yea with Zany's mom and Zany's mom from what Casey has told me over the last several months has urn been you know in and out of the hospital, hasn't been real well. YM: Which hospital? CA: Never told me, never really ask. YM: So you don't know if it was Miami or Jacksonville...? CA: I would think it would be local I mean cause she... YM: But we don't know? CA: Made it sound like she was local that Zany was checking on her periodically. EE: So it didn't take...

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CA: Like Zany wasn't leaving the the town to go see her. EE: So it wasn't like it took days and days for her to get to...

CA: Right. EE: The hospital?

CA: So what Casey said that Zany's sister and her mom had come up to the hospital that day, they thought she was gonna be released but when Zany couldn't be released her sister took her mom back home because she didn't bring her medicine's and stuff and her sister had other things that she had to do so that's

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why Casey said that she came home to pick up Zany's insurance information and I thought that was kind of weird I said well that stuff could be told over the phone or fax and she says well the sister didn't know where to look at the apartment. YM: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: So Casey stays...24th to the 25th ? Um huh (affirmative) But she comes back home... to get the insurance paperwork? She... Sorry Yuri go ahead... Casey said she drove home on the 25 th ... Okay. To get um...Zany's um insurance paperwork at the apartment, Zany told her exactly where to go, Casey um she... had her key and everything so she was able to get into the apartment ... Who's? And I asked her... Zany's apartment, I asked her I said well why can Raquel or someone just... call it in when they get back? And... YM: Do you know if that's the same apartment that she took me to?

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CA:

CA: Um... I would assume that whatever she...whatever the Zany person lives is where she was going to but I have my suspicions... EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: Please share... On that well let's go with this before I take you off kilter here... That's even better. Let's finish this and then I'll take you... Yea okay. Let me finish this...

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EE: CA: EE: CA: YM: CA: EE:

So you you see already that I can jump around and get lost easily... Yes and I can... Okay. (inaudible) jump around and get lost too I don't want to do that. (laughs) Train of thought... Wait let me finish this one then she went to the apartment to get the insurance paperwork?

8
9

CA:

Right and then she stopped home to grab something and that's when George saw her.

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YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: EE: CA:

At the house? Yea. That was the 25th? Yea. You're sure about that? I think that it was the 25 th . Was it the same day the report was made to the Sheriffs Office? (inaudible) was later on that afternoon. The 25th? Because George and I had gotten back or um...I think we got back that refund check you know the stimulus check...

YM: CA:

Um huh (affirmative) And he and I both had to go to the bank and he had told me earlier that day that he had made the report about the gas cans...

YM:

Urn huh (affirmative)

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CA: YM: CA:

And that him and I met up at the bank... Um huh (affirmative) And that for some reason he was gonna go right from the bank to work and something he said he had to go back home for something and Casey...

YM: CA: YM:

So... Was at the house. And make a long story short with the gas cans, Casey obtain the gas cans earlier and he confronted her, she gave them back when could she had taken the gas cans and if you had just come the house?

CA: I have no clue. YM: CA: And she was in Tampa. I don't know but see George had it I don't know... I mean I don't know the last time he remembers seen them, we were trying to figure out was... maybe mowing the grass... YM: CA: YM: Right. Somewhere I don't know. So Casey been in Tampa for one, two, three, four or five days first of I wanted just clarify one thing, um the report actually said the 24 th so were off on a date here right now but that been said the report date... CA: YM: CA: Well I was either one of the dates yea... So she is in Tampa how could she get the gas cans? One of the days she said she came home to pick up the gas cans, after George saw them in the car she had come to get the gas cans whatever day she got the gas cans was the day she was coming to pick up Zany's insurance information

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that she came back to the apartment to pick up the insurance information while she was...

YM: CA: YM:

Okay.

In town...
So were not really sure (Over talking) so were not really sure on the date (Over talking)

CA: YM: CA: YM:

Well whichever date George made the report. Right. That was the date. But what what I'm saying were not really sure on the dates of Tampa and the accident and...

CA: YM: CA:

Well no it was the same week. I'm sure that George made the report this week. Right he made it on the 24 th . Okay if that's the date then that's the date she said she came home and got the gas cans but she told me at one point during that time that she had come home to get Zany's insurance information.

YM: CA:

And that she stopped by your house to get what? She said while she was gonna get some cloths and there was a few urn of her cloths missing.

YM:

Okay what about the cloths that she took for her trip when she left on the 16 th howmucysaidntlomecupbakthnig sed't take anything except for... the regular diaper bag and...

CA: YM:

Right. (inaudible) the baby cloths...

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CA:

That I saw now again if George and I are at work, I don't know she had access to the house during the day. She could have come in at any point and gone into the house, you know they were still not they weren't in Tampa here, so at any point she could have...

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YM:

Didn't you tell me you had asked her about baby cloths and she told you she bought all new cloths?

CA: YM: CA: EE: CA:

Yes for Caylee. Right. Right... For this trip? She said (Over talking) no, no, no, no she I said that Zany keeps cloths, she said there's always cloths for um... Caylee at the babysitter's.

YM: CA:

I think (Over talking...) There's always extra cloths (Over talking...) but then she said on the weekend that they did go shopping and Zany took her shopping and bought more cloths.

YM: CA: YM:

Is that one of the strong things you were worried about cause you asked her Right I know but... You know why why just take her cloths and she told you well we don't need the cloths, I bought her all new cloths cause I remember you told me that that night.

CA:

Right on the 21 st they bought cloths but she told me cause I started asking her about Ca Caylee's cloths, here she says mom Zany always has extra outfits and cloths and shoes and things like that at her house.

YM:

Okay well let's get back to the lets get back to the week then (inaudible...) off on the days...

EE:

This is the first interview that I've ever done...with (inaudible...) stand by me...

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CA: EE: CA:

I'm sorry. I was just I'm trying to get use to the feeling... I'm trying I'm trying to look at the dates cause is sitting over there, I can't see the calendar.

EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: YM:

Okay I'm just... You want me to sit? Yea (inaudible) I don't want to intimidate you... No you're not intimidating me I'm just getting... Sorry I don't... (Over talking) it's like a new pair of pants, it takes a while to get use to. Sorry. I'm gonna put this up here (Over talking) cause I don't want you to walk out without it.

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CA:

Oh believe me I wont walk out without my purse, people woman don't leave their purses in their cars or places...

YM: CA:

Well sometimes it happens. Um... not usually. Um... bottom line is one of these days, I almost thought it was a Wednesday but whatever day he had file the report...

YM: CA:

Um huh (affirmative) But I thought the 24th was a Wednesday too so anyway um... this is it ended up been this is the day that they were coming back from... um Tampa.

EE: CA:

This day here? The 27th I remember that because... I got a phone call from Casey urn in the afternoon, they were going... straight back to urn... um to work Juliet and her

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needed to check in cause they have been off all week, they have been communicating with urn Tom, Tom Frank her urn boss at the event coordinating place and... later that I thought for sure when they get home that they were gonna be home but I found out later she said that Jeff was in town, he was at Hard Rock Ho... Hotel. EE: Jeff is in town? CA: Jeff's in town...

EE: Last name? CA: Hopkins. EE: Jeff Hopkins? CA: Um huh (affirmative) YM: Did you...

CA: The one that introduce her to Zany. YM: Urn huh (affirmative) did you see him or met on that weekend at all? CA: No. YM: You just knew he was in town cause what Casey said? CA: She said yes. YM: Okay. CA: And she told me Jeff was in town from the 28 th until the 30 th and Casey was excited to see him because um they hadn't seen each other since... December somewhere around there December the 1 st of the year when he went to Jacksonville and Jeff is the one that has Zachary. EE: (mumble) you forgiven (door opens...)

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Jeff two and half years ago right about just before Jesse I'm gonna tell you how Casey introduce Jeff into out life as a person, Casey was still working at Color Vision or Kodak and I cant remember when the switch went from one...

EE: CA:

When they (Over talking) the hostile take over? Yea wasn't hostile but I mean that really did happen cause I remember I spoke to her bosses that I mean I...talked to her bosses then but anyway urn.....Jeff was one the IT guys and I remember Jesse she said Jesse was jealous, Jesse told me he remembers her talking about some person...

EE: CA: EE: CA:

Jesse was jealous or...? Jesse was jealous they were still engaged then when she first met Jeff. Um huh (affirmative) And Casey and Jeff were friends, Jeff had a urn... a child urn a son that was almost a year older than Caylee and he was dating this person Zany at the time and... the same Jeff okay? Jeff introduce...

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EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:

There's so many names in my head right now. I know I could imagine... Jeff urn..... I took you off track, I'm sorry. That's right. (chuckle) So I mean anyway after Jesse and urn... um Casey broke up in June probably a couple of months later Jeff and Zany broke up and... Jeff and Casey started seen each other and Jeff and Zany remained friend, Zany continued to watch his son Zachary and Jeff encourage Casey to let Zany watch Caylee as well... save money just do whatever, Zany was doing it um...you know basically as a friend and Jeff was taking care of all of that.

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EE: CA: EE: CA:

So though Jeff and... And that happened... Zany broke up they she still watch both Casey and Jeff's child? Yea they remained friends, Zany started dating someone else from what she said and that Zany became Caylee's main primary babysitter um from what Casey said probably from October probably around right after Caylee's first birthday and to present time, you know what I'm saying? So this person wasn't made up just a month ago or whatever but what I'm thinking I think that Zany at this point was a real person in the beginning.

EE :

Um huh (affirmative) But I think Zany is now whoever is watching Caylee in my mind. Transfer the the responsibility. The name... yes so I think she refers to... I believe... Though you think were spinning our wheels looking for a Zany? I'm not sure but my I have two theories and I'll share that with you... Um huh (affirmative) I think Zany could either be Amy or um Jesse at this point...which I were gonna need another hour after were done to go into cause I only have twenty minutes.

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EE : CA: EE : CA: EE : CA:

EE: CA :

I'm here for twenty more years. I know but... (Over talking... ) we might have to do it cause you know (knock on the door, door opens) we do have to get to the other thing we have a commitment...

EE: CA: EE:

Okay. But I would say... Well real quick then on this (Over talking) on this thing...

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CA: EE:

Like to sit here and finish telling you all this stuff. Do we... on this week here this like the conference week do you ever get on the phone oh I got you I'm sorry...

CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:

That's all right. Sorry do you remember see this is the thing (over talking)

I talked to her every day (Over talking) I talked to her every day...
Every day you talked to the baby or just Casey?

No...

EE: No? CA: No I didn't I stopped talking to Caylee I'll say the last day I had talked to Caylee
was the 15th I did not have a conversation with Caylee after that... and...

EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:

What time was the last conversation, you remember? With Casey? Um huh (affirmative) no Caylee. Sometime on the 15 th when we put her to bed. Okay all right. Now George had a conversation with her in the morning that she was there in the morning had breakfast do the normal stuff.

EE: CA: EE: CA:

No time here though? No not at all. Okay. And that was every time we (inaudible... ) that Caylee wasn't with her or something you know there was something going on, that's why I thinks she's fabricated this whole story so that she would justified in me why I couldn't talk to

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Caylee because she knew that if it wasn't a reasonable thing then I would say where the hell are you and I'm coming to pick Caylee up. EE: CA: EE: Urn huh (affirmative) Because something's wrong. Urn huh (affirmative) looks like the... looks like if she doesn't come home with the baby that night you knew she was (inaudible....) CA: Right or she was in that that's why I think she stayed with Tony during this time because if she (inaudible) Annie and stayed with her for a month, Annie would say where the hell is Caylee and why aren't you at home or any of her close friends, Tony I believe was someone from what I found out now that someone she just met very recently so it wouldn't be a red flag to Tony. YM: Let me uh let me let me ask this, I understand they and I... forgive me for asking cause I I been doing so many things this morning, I understand you guys have someone to be this afternoon... CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: Yes. Right? How much more time do we have here that you feel comfortable with? Probably twenty minutes... Okay. We would like to leave at 11:30. Here here is what here is what I'll like to do, I want to focus on just the days that you you saw Caylee if there any others days I don't want to focus... CA: YM: CA: YM: Nothing... Okay I don't... The last day I physically saw her... Okay.

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Or talk to her was the 15th .

YM: I don't want to focus so much on what she is been telling you because what I want to do is I want to share some information with you... CA: YM: Urn huh (affirmative) Because I feel that what happens is this, this is like a chalkboard your mind is like a chalkboard right now, everything that is been told to you written down the chalkboard and what happens is if what you writing down in the chalkboard is false you know how (inaudible... ) what actually true... CA: YM: CA: YM: True is like that. So what I'm gonna do is hopefully help clean some of that chalkboard off... Right. And provide you with some truths, with some factual information that we confirmed because then that in my hope is gonna help you look at this in from a different angle. CA: YM: Right. Only because my biggest fear is that I don't want you to focus on something that... that you think is true that that (over talking...) CA: YM: Well I know none of this true. Okay well...

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CA: I mean I know that now is not true but at the time I believed it was true. YM: Sure but here but here but here is what I want to kind of focus on, I want to focus on not as much was she's told you that you know like all this this this we spent a lot time on this but you... and apparently you know as well all these probably not true. What I'm trying to do I want to try and show you... CA: But the people she was with maybe true.

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YM: CA: YM:

Well and that's what I want to share with you. Right. Okay cause we have not only been looking at Zany, we've been looking at Juliet, Louis, Jeffrey Hopkins, Raquel Farrell, Jennifer Rosa all these people we been researching them extensible.

CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

Juliet has Louis's number as JP's number who is... Well hold on a minute that that's that's (Over talking) Ricardo's room mate... I mean these are things that... Well hold on... Were figuring out now. That's what I want to share with you. Um huh (affirmative) Are the... I want to try and help you differentiate between what's real and existing and what's not because I know there's a lot of things that you might think are real right now that were finding out are absolutely not real and people as well.

CA: YM:

Urn huh (affirmative) So were not here to hypothesize on if she says Zany she might mean this person or she says or you said this picture was taken at this apartment but is this apartment so we believe one is another and we not gonna focus on that, you don't even know what I'm talking about, the picture you said that was Zany's apartment that's Ricardo's apartment?

CA: YM: CA:

Right. And now your thinking maybe Zay is Ricardo's something other... Or Amy.

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YM:

Okay well there a lot of things that you've also said that I need clarification on because if you're out there saying these things I need to know why you're saying these things.

CA: EE: CA: YM: EE:

I'm not saying them to anybody but authorities. Can I slide by (inaudible) Absolutely cause I wouldn't do that... I want... I'll be right back

CA: I'm not gonna accuse anybody... YM: CA: YM: Okay. And the public... Well here here is the thing, there's a couple things I want to (door closes) share with you and I want to show you that were actually working on this, contrary to what... um if you think that we haven't worked on this, I'm here to tell you Cindy...from the day... let me finish let me talk now, we I've listen to you talk for for a while I I want to able to share some things with you; I haven't stop on this, I can tell you right now that about a dozen people are strictly assigned to this just here and that doesn't include FDLE or FBI I know you had to talk to FBI yesterday, I'm sure they told you their involved.. CA: YM: CA: YM: Couple of days now Um huh (affirmative) What their involvement (inaudible...) all this, it was two days ago... Yea couple of days ago. So I I know I know they told you what their involvement is in this and what they been doing to help right? So you know that this isn't just something that were were kind of... been passing aside. I haven't work on anything but this...

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Urn huh (affirmative) Every other case I've had, every other person I've had (inaudible) family I have I have told them that they been delegated to other people...

YM:

CA: YM: CA: YM:

Right. So I can focus on this and I'm not the only one. John doing the same thing... I know. He is been focusing on this. All the girls in our missing person's unit the one's that were at your house?

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9

CA: YM:

Yea I (inaudible) Focusing on this...several other Detectives have been pulled from other sections focusing on this, so were doing everything possible to try and get answers for you. And here are some of the things I want to share with you. I know that you mentioned Tom Frank and I actually got an email that was sent to me, it was uh a forward email see if I can find the forward email... and uh I want to believe it was Lee that actually provided this for us...

lo
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CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

Yea I gave it to Lee. Okay. Cause I found it... Right and... And I told him to give it to you. Okay well what we did was yea obviously we have to follow up on these and these are very important, so one of the things in this letter was (inaudible) that came from a guy named... Tom Frank...

CA: YM:

Urn huh (affirmative) Right over here...

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CA: YM:

Urn huh (affirmative) Event director and his his email address this this are great pieces if information that we can use... that person doesn't exist.

CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

Okay. Never did, never worked for Universal. Okay. That is how a (inaudible) a valid email address... Okay. We even try it doesn't come back is is not a valid... Okay. Address at all, this person doesn't exist. I also went and I tried to identify some of these other people and the same where they work and I remember... I believe it was either Lee or (door opens) may have even come from from yours I believe it was Lee though that send me an email of of I guess what you guys had talked about last Friday at the jail what Juliet and Louis may have work or or Raquel may have work uh same Raquel worked at TJI Friday's uh Juliet worked at Universal urn we went back to check Casey Anthony in Color Vision cause I know Color Vision took over from Kodak and what we the very very blank statement what we found out is... Jeff Hopkins, Juliet Louis never worked for EIS if Even Imaging Solutions which is a Kodak company that was...

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CA: YM:

Okay. Taken over by Color Vision so we know that wasn't true. Um we did a wager an hour check in Casey's see the last time she actually worked and it shows the first quarter of 2006 which was... with uh I think just as Color Vision took over Kodak...

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CA: YM:

Urn huh (affirmative) We also check with Color Vision to verify... uh let's see is this Color Vision? Color Vision and they said that Casey, Jeffrey, Juliet never worked for the Color Vision. And this is coming from the HR director. So what I'm doing is I'm just sharing info... give you I want trying and wipe clean some of the stuff...

CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

Okay. That you think may or may not be true. Well... (Over talking) Raquel Farrell... Urn huh (affirmative) Worked TGI Friday's contacted the TGI there she worked for (unintelligible) restaurants own's them...

CA: YM:

Urn huh (affirmative) And this is the head recruiting specialist, no record of of Raquel. The point I want to just bring to you is that, the people that she is saying exist...

CA: YM:

Don't exist. Don't exist uh I can tell you also and I want to share this with you is that your saying that you know again... were pretty much on the same sheet that she is not telling you the truth...

CA: YM:

Um huh (affirmative) She's never been to Tampa over June, July we know that for a fact, her cell phone records have never left Orange County area.

CA: YM: CA:

Right. She's never been to Jacksonville, okay so that... Well she was at Jacksonville...

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YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

June, July... Yea (Over talking) She's never been to Jacksonville... Right. So... everything that we've gotten from her, everything that you guys are trying to get from her to help with this is still a lie. Is is a consistent lie and the problem that we have is that the more she tries to divert from what we actually need to do which is find Caylee the harder it is to find her and... I guess there were some statements made that concern me on TV is that you said not too long ago on one of the shows that... you knew who has Caylee but you don't want to say anything because you want to be absolutely sure before you mention this person's name and that was something that you said on the news, what's that about?

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CA: YM:

I don't think I've ever said that were sure cause I'm not sure about... You said you know you know whO has Caylee but your not gonna say the name until you're absolutely sure.

CA: YM:

(No verbal response) You you said that on the news.

CA: I may have said I have my feeling. YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: No you you you said you know who has Caylee. Well I have to see the show. Well who is this person that you say you have your feelings? Well my number one suspect is has been Jesse all along. We know that Jesse doesn't have Caylee, who who do you... Do you know for a fact Jesse...? We know (Over talking) for a fact Jesse doesn't have Caylee.

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CA: YM: CA:

Okay you... Who do you who do you think has Caylee? You know someone that Jesse does doesn't have Caylee?

YM: I just said you said Jesse may have Caylee, I'm telling Jesse does not have Caylee. Who who else do you think... CA: I think Jesse knows where Caylee is at. YM: Okay I can tell you for almost a fact that I don't think Jesse knows where Caylee is at. CA: All right then I'm just not sure why he's making up all this urn... change in his stories. YM: Well with all due respect he is not the only one that's been changing the stories, right? Remember you're you have that big thing about the 911 tapes and what you were saying initially and then you changed your story right? CA: YM: What story did I change? All the smell in the car, you changed pizza um making the Police come over to the house you said I said that just to make them come quicker were as that night... CA: YM: CA: YM: Well the first night... Hold on is... The first night... Is the same thing though you understand that? Is the same thing and and what Jesse says to some people sometimes and then your saying he changes his story, that's the same thing that your doing. CA: YM: No I didn't not say that... Cindy?

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CA: I heard Casey or Caylee's voice and then turn around and said that I did heard Casey or Caylee's voice. YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: Cindy....we were not talking about listen... You don't listen... Were talking about the same... the same... Is not, is not the same thing. Cindy? Is not the same thing cause I can explain exactly why... There's there's (Over talking...) Calls were differ you know each time... Well let me let me ask you another one, another thing that you mentioned and you mentioned it several times and you mentioned it on a couple of programs is that we let the car sit at the house for two days? CA: YM: It was...well... You know you know that (Over talking) wow wow wow (over talking continues...) stop stop stop stop... CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: I'm counting Tuesday and Wednesday. No we Police let the car sit at the house for two days? (No verbal response) Is that true? It was there... it was there Tuesday night... Did we? Did we let the car sit there for two days? You guys didn't pick it up.

YM: Did we let it sit there for two days?

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CA:

what do you mean that you let it sit there; we called you the same day we got the car?

YM: CA: YM:

Right and when did I pick it up, when did I send someone to pick it up? Not that... the next day. Right so that's not two days (Over talking)

CA: I'm counting Thurs Tuesday and Wednesday YM: CA: YM:
That's less than twenty four hours, less than twenty four hours. Okay all right. So these are things that concern me because what were trying to do is were not trying to...

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CA: YM: CA: YM:

Okay I'm I'm thinking two days in my mind... Cindy? Listen... What were trying to do is just listen please please please please...

CA: I lost my granddaughter okay? YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:
And were looking for you're...

I lost my granddaughter...
Cindy were looking for your granddaughter.

I...
Were looking for your grandda the problem is...

I I...
Listen to me, listen to me, listen to me, we want to help okay?

CA: I know. YM: CA:


All we want to do is... Okay but...

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Cindy, Cindy, Cindy listen please, please, please... I can't help if you go out there and start and start and start changing things.

CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA:

I'm not changing anything. And adding things. Okay. And that's what I wanted to talk to you about, okay? All right. Listen to me, let me... You guys are so good the first four days, you guys were so good at coming to the house and everything and then it stopped no one came from missing persons, no one came from anything we were in the dark...

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9

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YM: CA: YM: CA:

Cindy? What what... So we are a grieving family... Listen... Frustrated as heck because... I didn't even care where Casey was at, I still don't care where Casey is at all I want is Caylee back...

YM: CA: YM:

Cindy? Do you understand that? But listen to me what I'm try what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to get us on the same sheet that (over talking...)

CA:

Well we should have been on the same sheet. Remember the first time before I talked...

YM: CA: YM:

Cindy? To the media, I said... I agree...

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CA: YM:

I said... I agree but listen, listen...

CA: I want to know what you want me to tell them... YM: Cindy? You're not listening with me, okay? Please I sat here I've listen to you, were trying to work with you but now is the time were I need to tell you, we need to focus, we need to focus on the right thing; we don't need to focus on creating stories, changing testimonies, changing what we said... CA: YM: CA: I'm not changing anything that I've ever said. We are focusing on trying to find Caylee, that's it. That's all okay? Cause I don't want to keep hearing... But listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen... From people that you guys think she is dead because she is not dead. Have you ever seen me on the news? No. Okay have you ever seen him on the news? No. Okay were not out there talking to people, my phone wont stop ringing from every news agency to get me to talk about this, I wont do you know why? Because I'm working on finding Caylee. CA: YM: EE: CA: YM: CA: Okay. And that is... Out of respect for you as well. I understand... Listen...that's that's why you don't see me on (over talking....) One officer...

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YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

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YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

Cindy (over talking...) All you got to do is send one officer... anybody to come talk to us every day. Cindy let me talk... Cindy let me talk. I can't see right now? I can't even... It doesn't have to be you. Right now I can't even talk to you. You're not letting me talk to you (phone rings in the background) I I I'm watching I'm watching all of these things...

7
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CA:

I'm listening to you...

YM: I'm watching all these things that you're doing right now and is hurting our case.
Is

is hurting it because people are looking at you and they they're seen how you

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changing these stories just like you seen what Jesse said and you don't believe him because of it? People are now looking at you and saying the same thing. We don't need that, we need to them look at you and say this is a strong grand mother who cares about her daughter and who cares about her granddaughter and not someone who well... didn't you say this? Well I meant this. Well didn't you say this? Well I meant this that hurts us that hurts us because we can't say listen I can't stand there in front of a news cast with you and say... everything that you've told us so far is the same thing that we have been saying all along because you I cant say that you changed it and that's changing the focus from Caylee. Our ultimate goal is to find Caylee... were gonna do everything we can, we been doing everything we can to find Caylee, I need you on my side. CA: I want to be on your side, I told you that from day one, why do you think George and I let you have free... YM: CA: YM: I just (over talking...) When we try to give you stuff no one want to take it. Cindy?

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CA: It just seemed like it from our perspective all it seemed like from day one you
guys were building a case against Casey as a murderer. She's not a murder one thing I know is she loves that child.

YM:

And were not disputing that Cay listen listen to me one thing you have to understand on what we do, we can't over look anything...

CA: I know you can't. YM:


If somebody if somebody calls us with something just like you know, somebody calls us with a tip, if we don't look into that tip if we don't follow that tip, there's always gonna be a what if? Everything that I've done is because of something that I've seen or noticed or something that that we have to wonder....the car...

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9 10

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CA:

(Over talking) it was a reassurance from you guys, you guys are following up on
it.

YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

And that's what (Over talking...) (Over talking) been two and half weeks late. Cindy? Were six and half weeks late because...

I understand that but from my (Over talking) perspective...


Listen... we been following this from the day I first met you, we haven't stopped. I know. We have not stopped. I know. You know that...

CA: I know. YM:


Okay and were still not gonna stop by I can't, I can't over look certain things that exist, I can't...

CA: I know that.

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YM:

Because if if I if I say let's just say right now that... you tell me this person has Caylee if I don't go there and talk to that person I'm not doing my job. If I don't investigate every aspect of this I'm not doing my job.

CA:

But when I get phone calls, listen to me for one second. When I get phone calls day after day after day from people that say we know we saw your granddaughter, we know we saw your granddaughter no one is following up no one is following up and we gave you guys the information... and we don't get a call back what the hell you think were suppose to think?

YM: CA:

Cindy we (Over talking) No one from your department has called us back; you know damn well I've called you...

YM: CA:

Cindy? What did...? The day after I mean the night of the arraing or the the hearing about Wanda at the airport.

YM:

What did I tell you...what did I tell you about all these people coming to you or me coming to you say bring...

CA: YM: CA;

I know... Your whole (inaudible) and bring it (Over talking) I know.

YM: I can't do that we have gotten over five hundred tips... CA: I know you guys get a lot of tips. YM: Over five hundred tips, I can't go and tell each one that calls with a tip, I can't tell them oh how we followed up on it. CA: I know. YM: You have a full plate; you guys are (Over talking)

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Someone could just say from missing persons, were following up on that 01A or (Over talking) I mean some one could have said that.

YM:

Cindy were following up on everything that comes up, everything that comes up and I know the FBI guys told you that we actually send FBI to this lady's house and looked at her child and how she could have been mistaken for Caylee? I don't know cause they don't look that similar at all. I think what happens is there's a lot...

CA: YM: CA: YM:

So there's no tape at the airport? There isn't your right, they they tape over that there is no tape. Right. Where you heard that? I don't know. I'm the horse's mouth.

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CA: I heard there wasn't a tape. YM: I'm the horse's mouth; I told you that the first night, once you hear something if you don't hear it from me is not true, all right? And what's happening is that all these people out there that they're most of them are trying to help but there people out there that all they want to do is get involved period.

17 CA: I know.
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

YM:

Whether they actually you know have anything or not, all they want to do is get involved, get their name out there and hopefully get their picture on the news, all right? Wanda was more... more concern about getting her face on the news in hopes that people would recognize her rather than I'm I'm (over talking...)

CA:

Only because Wanda did... I never told her name to anybody but you I didn't even give it to Jose till last Friday.

YM: I'm I'm I'm letting you know these things; these people are more interested in getting their fifteen minutes of fame than helping Caylee.

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Why would she involve her fourteen year old son? We can't answer that. We can't answer that but listen the most important thing right now and again I didn't mean to interrupt Eric...

YM:

CA: YM:

No I know... And I understand this is a very important thing... but what I feel is the most important I know I'm sorry (chuckle) I'm sorry

CA: YM: CA: YM:

(inaudible...) let me look at that. I'm sorry... No that's okay. What I feel is most important right now is that we have to get in the same sheet of music, we have to we have to we have to work together and by working together... I need you... to stop trying to and I understand what you want to do is go out there and look for Caylee but people are starting to focus their wrong attention on Casey and you because of cert and listen these people are professionals, they're gonna paint you in a corner (Over talking)

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CA:

The last two days since I met with the FBI I have been telling them that you guys are doing your job, I been saying that.

YM:

And you know the news is gonna try to twist everything...

CA: I know. YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: In order to get their ratings... they're gonna try and paint... Well and I been challenging them to do responsible reporting and to quit quitted. You can't (Over talking) you can't do that cause you know... Well... Cause you know you know as well as I that...

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But you know (Over talking...) you know damn well missing children don't get me the attention after two or three days they don't, you have to keep her picture out there so that she could be found, you know that.

YM: I know. CA: YM: CA: YM: You look at all these missing children. Listen we (Over talking) They don't have anybody out there looking for them. But what were doing is unfortunately what you sometimes doing is you pulling the attention off and this is a missing you looking for Caylee but their not focusing on Caylee, they're focusing on you. CA: I don't want them on me. YM: Their focusing on Casey because of all this all this crap that's coming out, all this pictures of her coming out, I can't control all this... CA: YM: Two, three years ago. I can't control all this but because is the media is eating this up what we need to do is we need to keep the media focus on Caylee; we do not talk about Casey okay. And if they if they ask you anything well what about this, what about this? Say we're looking for Caylee now period. CA: YM: CA: YM: Right. I'm not here to talk about anything I've talk about before... Well that's what I'm trying to tell them I don't like to answer questions about her. But when you go on Larry King and they put you on the spot it forces you to say something because obviously you don't want to look bad and unfortunately their professionals at this, they're gonna... they're gonna paint you in a corner... EE: They're trained to get you the response out of you.

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The unfortunate thing is Larry King assured me that I was gonna get... time to talk about the efforts were doing for (inaudible) you and all that.

YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA:

And did they? Well of course. They gave you all the time you wanted to talk about what you guys are doing? No they didn't. So you see how that works? Um huh (affirmative) They pick and choose little portions of what you say... Oh I know and that's what the local media does too and that's what I said if they show the whole darn thing then you know things would be painted right.

EE:
CA:

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EE:

So the people are sitting in their house interested to see how they (inaudible) next that could be out looking for the baby?

CA:

Well... You see what were trying to say is there's a lot of negative (Over talking....) That's what I keep telling them that... positive. We need to we need to focus on forward, we need to stop...

EE:
CA: YM:

CA: I know. YM: CA: Stuff about that's already happened (Over talking) We've been asking for you guys to meet with us. We have for a while... Lee even told said he talked to... last weekend. YM: I've talked to Lee a lot.

CA: I know but George and I but... but you know what? You guys think I'm some...freaking lunatic. I'm not I'm a grieving grandma that's (Over talking) YM: Were not saying anything like that.

90 Cindy, Anthony/Case #08-069208/LP

CA: YM:

But you and John quit calling me, quit talking to me... You know you know why? Because right after that bond hearing, even before the bond hearing your relationship with us became adversarial because...

CA: YM: CA:

You... Listen... You blew it that that morning (unintelligible) when you threaten to send the police car to my dad's you know why I was protecting him.

YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

The information that we need, we need immediately and and... Then I called Kari back with in a few minutes, Yuri you knew that and and... Listen we have to do (Over talking) And to have the prosecutor state that I... would be uncooperative... Cindy? We have to do a job and some and listen I've asked you for you for your (inaudible) records, I asked you for that that same morning...where are they?

CA: YM:

There's nothing on there, I already looked at them. Okay see that's things I can't have because I know that she had your JC Penney card, I know that she went all over the place with your JC Penney card.

CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

I gave... I gave Lee my JC Penney statement. You have to give it to us... To give to you... You have to give it to us... He said that he was the go between... Listen, listen, listen, listen...

CA: I know.

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1 YM:
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

This is stuff we need, you can't hold it back because this is how we do our investigation, now your personal credit cards, you have (over talking...) listen, listen...

CA: YM: CA: YM:

You guys didn't want the receipts for the JC Penney card. That's because we got a different way. Okay. Okay? We need to have the whole thing, receipts you could have given a handful receipts but I don't know if they're the whole thing.

CA:

Right.

1() 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

YM: I need to have your statement, okay? So what other credit cards do you have that she is used, what are the companies? Cause we know JC Penney... CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: Is just Penney... What about your bank card? No, she didn't have either of my bank cards. Which which bank you have her part of? Um Barne I mean Bank of America. Bank of America and what else? Bank of America. Just Bank of America? Is it a Visa or Master Card? Um is a Visa debit card. Okay is that the only other credit card... Yes. That you have out there aside from JC Penney? Yes. You don't have a Dillard's or Circuit City or...?

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1 CA: No.
2 3 4 5 6 7

YM: Or a Best Buy, nothing like that? CA: No. EE: Target, Wal-Mart? CA: No I haven't had a Target I mean I had a Target card year's ago but I let it expired. YM: Where is your JC Penney card that she was using? I know you took it out of her wallet that night. CA: I have it at home.

8
9

10 YM: Okay so... 11


12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

CA:

I have it at home I took it out (Over talking) that night and then...

YM: What about the two hundred dollars that was in her wallet that night? CA: I took it.

YM: Why didn't you tell us anything about it? CA: I told them... the girls...

YM: Told who? Who who did you tell? You didn't tell me, who did you tell? CA: Whatever...whatever female officer was with us that night I cant remember her name, when Lee brought back all the stuff, we dumped all the stuff out in the middle of the floor, I showed her all of that. YM: Okay unless, unless, unless... CA: And I showed her... YM: Unless you told me, I don't know about that. CA: I showed her the credit... YM: Okay. CA: But I told you there was a a handful of receipts...

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1
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YM: CA:

Urn huh (affirmative) Cause all the Sheriffs guys that were out there before were looking at all of them cause I said well we could find times off of things you know the times of those, I have those I offered those up several times and no one wanted them (Over talking) but I told her...

YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

And I explain to you why we didn't want the receipts. But I said I'm taking back my credit cards and I said I'm taking back this money. Now... And she... One one more question... And she knew that I had so whichever female officer was out there that night... One more question I'm gonna ask you and and I want I want to ask you this... hopefully you can give me an answer (inaudible) what you think about this okay? I know that after the gas can incident...

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CA; YM:

Um huh (affirmative) Please bare with it and let me finish, after the gas can incident, Casey borrowed your truck, your green truck...

CA; I don't know where that (inaudible) YM: CA: YM:


George actually saw her I guess... He never told me that. Driving down the 408 and asked you and you said that Casey had borrowed your truck.

CA: I would not have let Casey borrowed the truck after the gas can inst... YM: CA:
And would have been like the 25 th listen, listen let me... You know why

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day

1 YM:
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Shhhh... No let me tell you why... There's a reason (Over talking....) I didn't give her permission is because if if... (Over talking) she borrowed you truck?

CA: YM: CA: YM:

CA: I don't know. How could she borrow my truck if I have it? YM: That's what I'm asking... you're is the the green truck that you drive the green
SUV is that the one you drive to work?

CA:

The 4 Runner that's the one I bou I drive to work. If she if I would have thought that she had my car anytime during this time then I would have thought that.,.

10 11
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YM: CA: YM:

So you're saying that never happen? Not that I'm aware of. Well the reason I want to tell you this is that she started calling people and telling people on the twenty was the 25th? On the 25th she sent a text message to her friends saying that George drove her car the white one...

13 14 15
16

CA: YM: EE: YM: EE: YM:

No he didn't. Listen to me listen to me I'm telling you what were getting okay? She's that's a conversation (Over talking) That George... Over the phone. George drove her white car and may have hit something and killed it because the car was starting to stink...

17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

CA: YM:

She said there was a squirrel in the car. And she started telling these stories from the 25 th on... why? I just want to plant the seed okay, you don't have to answer... why would she do that?

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CA: I have no idea. YM: Why why was she trying and pass off the smell cause we all know that there was a smell in the car... CA: YM: No. I'm not here to dispute what the smell was okay? We all know there was a very bad smell in the car, why would she start to say to her friends in text messages; we have text messages why would she want to say hey I think my dad... you know hit something with the car? CA: I don't know. YM: And then later on would say yea it looks like my dad hit something with the car and the car stinks? CA: I have no idea. YM: CA: Ans... I have no idea...

YM: I wanted to share that with you. CA: I have no idea. YM: EE: He's he's got one... And these are the kinds of questions that we have cause this was on the 27 th the text that she sends out. So we looked because we listen if your granddaughter walks thru that door right now, we would all tuck our tails between our legs and be glad to do it, okay? But these are the kind of things that we as the profession have to look into and ask the question why? You read that correct? So that's and the squirrel thing we need to look and see is that there?

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)'

1 CA:
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Yea Amy told me that she said something and when I was driving Amy from the Florida Mall to the... um to the house, Amy (inaudible) something about squirrels in he car. That was the first I...

EE:

And what was your response to Amy did you did you guys discuss the smell of the car or anything? Not that it really amounts to anything...

CA:

Not that I recall you know... not that I recall, we talking about that my main focus when I got Amy was leading...

EE: CA: EE:

Cause I know Lee... Telling me where Cas... When Lee met you back at the house that day, he said oh my goodness, when he went in the garage...

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CA: EE: CA:

Oh yea you could tell... Phuuu... Since we got home we aired it out. But see the thing of it was when George opened the trunk the guy was with him, that bag the pizza was in the bag and it was all closed up and when he opened up because he had to open the bag to see what's in the bag, there was maggots in that pizza in there and it was... bad. I mean it was really bad.

EE: CA : EE: CA: EE:

I'm not gonna sit here and split hairs about that... Well... And you deserve better than me doing that. Bottom line is though...... With you saying that in this conversation...

CA: I mean but think of it though I mean it if the car was there from the 27 th and this is fact because Amscot reported the car on the 27 th and what it was the 30th or that

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was reported one of these two days I don't know, and then Amscot got towed here... that had to have been closed up in that car for nineteen days at least, that bag of stuff. EE: CA: At least... At least thru the fifteen when we picked up the car cause if it was abandoned here... YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: Were not you know were not gonna were not gonna dispute that the car was... Right. Was drop off on the 27 th (Over talking.......) You know? But listen we were not we cant dispute the smell with you , I I can only tell you that and and and over twelve years I been doing this... you know what I did before coming to missing persons cause that came out in the trial, okay. I can only tell you what I have sense before, I know you as a nurse you been to the morgue before... CA: YM: I've smell dead flesh, I've smell dead bodies, I've smell burn bodies... And I'm not gonna were not gonna go back and forth with this, I'm just gonna know were gonna agree or disagree with this, okay but... what you also need to remember there different aspects of this that we need to pay attention to... were focusing on finding Caylee, I would not come to you and tell you anything but that unless I have definitive proof... CA: YM: But are you looking for a live Caylee or a dead Caylee Yuri ? Were looking for Caylee Cindy cause we don't know where Caylee is and and listen look at this from the outside, I know is tough okay, pretend this isn't your

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daughter, pretend Casey is not your daughter... how would you what would you
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

think happen? CA: I don't know. YM: Pretend Casey is not your daughter, all the lies... all the inconsistencies, all the stories, all the evidence, all the facts, all the people that don't exist, what do you in your heart believe? CA: Not knowing Casey I would probably think the worse. Not knowing Casey and Casey's relationship with Caylee. YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: We... can't eliminate that... Well... Were... what we're not focusing on that, does that make sense? Right. We we can't overlook those things. Remember... I don't know (Over talking) if it was you or John I think was John I even asked him when the forensic dogs, the cadaver dogs were in the back I said did they check the rocks around the pool? Cause if so what if... cause I even brought that up, what if Caylee if Casey... you know... fell coming down the ladder... EE: CA: EE: CA: YM: While you're saying that I want to ask you that... I said that because you you don't know I mean... Right. That first twenty four that first night I didn't know George and I were in shock... (inaudible) remember... you have to (inaudible...) this objectively from an outside point of view.... CA: Here is the thing though...

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YM:

If this isn't Casey if this wasn't Casey and this was you were watching this whole thing unfold on the news...

CA: EE: CA:

Oh you think bad thoughts. Given everything that's presented... You think bad thoughts.

YM: I mean... but we're not stopping our search, were looking for Caylee, were hopping to find Caylee. CA: So when those (Over talking....) I of a live Caylee you're gonna bring me (Over talking...) Caylee... YM: Were following up on everything but you she can't be in Georgia and in New York at the same time. CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: Yea but different days I mean my God it only takes a couple of hours to fly... I know, I know. You know what I'm saying? But but listen...while were clinging to hope... But only one of them has to be the right one and how do we know which one it is until we check them all. YM: We check every single one...every single one, that's why we have the FBI involved not some (inaudible) agency from Tennessee or not some little tuba town from Oklahoma, the Federal Bureau of Investigation checks every one out of state (inaudible) because they are the most reliable... CA: YM: CA: YM: Let me ask you a question though... Go ahead. So if the FBI would get a tip, say that one in Cornelia Georgia... Um huh (affirmative)

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CA: YM: CA:

That she they got on the 23 rd Urn huh (affirmative) That she went to the local authorities, they went to I think White County Sheriffs Department...

YM: CA:

Um huh (affirmative) Reported it and then reported it here that morning cause she reported it 1:30 a.m. that Wednesday morning cause she had seen her that Tuesday

YM: CA:

Urn huh (affirmative) The 22 nd ... she said that she's never had a one on one just a phone conversation with the FBI and this was as of yesterday...

YM: CA: YM: CA:

Who said this? This Amy Shriver from urn (inaudible) Georgia. And she called us or she who did she called and reach out to? The first people she reached out to was White County which is the County that Cornelia is at.

YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA:

White County and her name is? Her name is Amy Shriver. And White County is in what state? Georgia, this is Georgia. Okay so she reached out to White County? Um huh (affirmative) And she says White County did what? She reached out to White County Sheriffs Department around 1:30 in the morning on the 23 rd I believe was July...urn...yea the 23 rd because she saw her on at that... uh...

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YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA:

So on July 23 rd and... Yea on the 22 nd . And what did she say White County did? Urn they send someone out to the restaurant... Okay. And talked to the owner and talked to some people. So they followed up on it? They followed up on it. And what is and what is Amy telling you, what is what is she worried about? Amy said that urn... no one came back and took her statements, she did speak to someone at the tip line either missing persons or the tip line here um that morning urn she said it was morning sometime maybe 9:00 10:00 o'clock in the morning, urn she had left a voice message to me that...

8
9

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YM: CA:

So she she was concerned that nobody came by and got a statement? She is concern now that no one's come back, she's called me yesterday.

YM: If is not Caylee we don't need a statement. CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: Okay well how do they know? There's no camera's at the cottage. Because we... if the Detectives go there... And she says her husband is a ER physician... Listen listen... And she was with her mom and sister. We don't take statements from every one that gives us a tip. Okay so... We don't we cant because (Over talking) they'll have a stack of paperwork (Over talking)

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CA:

Well how do you know is not Caylee if there's no pictures or they just going by the restaurant manager?

YM: CA: YM: CA:

We have to check with White County to see what they did. Okay. And I'll do that. Well she said she did speak with Georgia or the FBI but no one has come to take her statement.

YM: CA: YM: CA: EE: CA: EE:

Okay I'm gonna look into that. Okay.

I'll get you a (Over talking)


Okay. Did you share that with the FBI guy yesterday? Two days ago no... We don't want to know what (Over talking)

CA: I did not because my whole efforts was talking about other things; and doing a
profile on Casey.

EE: YM:

Okay, We're gonna check on that but every person that gives us a tip we can't get (Over talking) is impossible.

CA: I know well that was and that was (Over talking) a couple of days after the um... YM: CA:
Georgia? The Sunny uh Sunny Breeze sighting which it was only a few miles away... cause that one was on the 19 th and that girl is the same way.

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YM:

And again we I I I understand a couple of days ago urn maybe... maybe last week or something you guys start telling everyone hey send all your tips to the Sheriffs Office and all your tips to the Tip Line...

CA: YM:

We've been saying that from day one. Don't don't send them to us right, we need to make sure that continues cause what they tell you...

CA: YM:
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

We been saying that from day one... Might not necessarily... My answering machine hasn't change (Over talking)

CA: YM:

If she called if she called in and left the tip on our tip line should have uh a tip
number...

CA: YM: CA:

Okay. So that's an easy way to confirm that. Right well she said she did... speak to someone but all things were suppose to be handled you know not directly with you guys out of state.

YM:

We'll work on that I I understand you your time is short and I won't keep you from what you're doing.

CA: YM: CA: YM:

(inaudible) if you can go in here but I do... And what time is it? Is a quarter to twelve and we needed to leave at 11:30. Okay (Over talking) real real quick and I and I know I took sometime from you but

I me I wanted to make sure that I got this out, I want to make sure that we are on
the same sheet of music. Everything that comes out of your mouth would always stay on the news, would always be there be very very careful of what you say because if it contradicts certain things you've already said...

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1 CA:
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Urn huh (affirmative) There just there just gonna focus on you, they're not gonna focus on Caylee and were gonna loose resources, were gonna loose people's attention, all right? Please, please, please...

YM:

CA: YM: CA: YM:

Oh believe me I don't want to do anything... Please. To jeopardize (Over talking) Work, work, work we getting Caylee, don't worry about going on Larry King or or anyone of these places that they didn't promise you, you know they promise you things that didn't come thru it right? And what happened? It wasn't a good experience...

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CA:

Well the last radio guy I did was perfect I mean he... let me told me... he did the (inaudible) that I wanted and he let me bashed the media and say that they need to be focusing on finding Caylee so I mean that one was good you you never know when you gonna get a good one.

YM:

But be very careful with that.

17 CA: I know.
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

YM: EE: CA: YM:

Eric I I took up a lot of your time, I'm sorry. We'll just do it again. Whenever you can you know whenever you're available let me know. Is there something that we need right now or something that we want to lock into... that's (Over talking)?

EE: CA:

Let's go over July when you can again, when you get done with you're... And now this is... this is going on from four to midnight tonight so any time tomorrow, Sunday, Monday whenever you want, you let me know.

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1 YM: Oh we got we got a lot to follow up on that one, you want to try and do it
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Monday?

CA: EE: YM: CA: EE:

No plans for anything, I mean this is my primary focus. Monday morning? Monday morning? You tell me what time and I'll be there. Just so you know cause I heard a few things but the receipt thing just came to my attention because...

CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: EE:

I don't have that.


Of the... the uh that's defense attorney has them. Right because I offered them to... people... But I don't that's (Over talking...) (Over talking...) looking into it. That's what I'm gonna show you. Okay. Every one of those receipts that existed that we brought to (inaudible) paper I showed him this that day, these are the same transactions, that's why we need your bank stuff.

lo
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15
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CA: EE: CA: EE:

Okay. Because this isn't the (inaudible) that were were taking, is very methodical... Okay. We were aware of things now I would of love to have the receipts but they weren't necessary.

CA: EE:

Okay. Urn just so (Over talking)

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CA: YM: CA: EE: YM: EE:

But I mean cause there's times on there there's from... We get all that... Blockbuster to (Over talking...) Look in here. You get all that from your statement. Look in here, see these videos were she is in the story they're using your card, here is one were she's in the bank... see there's different things and we can't show you everything but that's part of our job what we look thru and we match this to what were able to get and these are the windows that were trying to close by getting information from you and other family members and friends, is

11
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hopefully where is the baby? She's not there that day, let's look at that she's not using mom's JC Penney card with with Amy that day, let's see... CA: EE: Was she with Amy? Urn huh (affirmative) but she wasn't with the baby, where is the baby? It wasn't with you that day, that's why were like phone records (taps on the table) she must have made two or three phone calls that day to nanny just to check on the kid, that's were... with all these phone records we need to know, if it wasn't nanny and you your self have said you don't believe is nanny, who was she calling to check on that child? CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: YM: Urn huh (affirmative) That's what were trying to do, eliminate and the pool... Urn huh (affirmative) Is much larger than you probably would ever... know... Did you guys look at the... the 16 th phone records? We've looked at...

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CA: YM: EE: CA: EE: CA:

That's really erratic that day... We looked at everything. Can I? The 16th was really erratic that day. That's very interesting that you say that. Cause Lee brought that to my attention cause he was looking at them and he was saying I mean it was like... boom, boom, boom calling back and forth.

8
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EE:

Can I ask you something in a hypothetical way that you guys touched upon and is hard to hear and is hard to be in that and I wouldn't want you sitting in your chair right now. But if you your self said there was a tragic incident that occurred if I was a betting man looking at the time line, I would bet and that's if I'm just throwing the if out there cause you as an educated person have to already entertain the if as painful as it is...

CA: YM: EE:

Sorry. That's okay.

I interpret this as the "if" days if there if there was an incident.

CA: I do too because that's when the story started. EE:


Well with the life style that she's had with you (phone rings in the background) and knowing that you hold her to such..
.

CA: EE: YM:

Accountability (phone continues to ring) This this is an 808 number, that's got to be your son... 8085132? That maybe I think you might have one call... That's Lee. He's calling... That's Lee.

23 CA:
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EE: CA:

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EE:

Okay well we just make this real brief... make sure that's all for me please huh urri... let's say and please entertain this with me for a minutes as difficult as it is, if something tragic happened and your daughter, we already know that your daughter in some in some way form or fashion based on conversation with Lee and friends, she knows sometimes she doesn't live up to your expectations...

CA: EE:

Um huh (affirmative) You think that if something like that were to occurred, be at the pool, be at she choked on a grape, whatever... she wouldn't want to come to you with that because she knows right then and there oh my God, what's mom gonna say...

CA: EE:

I don't know. If let's say that did happen though, what do you feel as a parent that raised her her next steps would be, her next things that she would do would be?

CA: EE: CA: EE:

Well did people see the (inaudible....) There's many many things that I can sit here and discuss with you... Of the Pontiac I mean... There's many there's many things here that I would want to question your daughter ...

YM: EE: CA:

What do you think she would do? But I want to focus from here thru there. I think Casey if something happened to Caylee she'll still call 911 even if it was an accident.

YM: EE:

Let's assume she didn't... For whatever reason...

CA: I have no idea.

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Where would she go where would who... you what would she (Over talking...) didn't open up to anyone...

EE:

And were not blinded by this as been the only possibility, don't please don't read into that that we are only looking for this to (Over talking)

YM: CA: YM: EE: CA:

We are we are focused on with a magnifying glass on all of these days... If she needed help, she would reach out to someone I mean if she I don't I.. . We've talked to her best friend... Through out those (over talking...) phone calls, those... I haven't I haven't been able to sit down look at the phone record; I would love to have a copy...

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EE: CA: YM:

That's (over talking...) ... Pour over it and and figure it out. That's that's trust me (Over talking....) team of about four, six people right now working on just that, just that. We got a team of three people working on just financial records, financial information, videos from stores and we have people designated doing just that, that's why...

EE: YM:

We're doing our job...okay? So what do you what do you think would happen? Where do you think she would go? If if let's say something and and she was so afraid to tell you or (unintelligible) where would she go?

CA: YM:

I don't know I mean... Is there is there a park near by that she would like to take Casey... is there uh I know she mentioned Blancher Park a couple of times...

EE:

She says things like I want to protect the family, she's close to home. The things that people that I've done what we do unfortunately for years...

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CA:

Well I didn't realize that she went up to the park on Underhill (unintelligible) Christina said that...

YM: CA: YM:

Um huh (affirmative) That she went there quite frequently. Urn huh (affirmative) And Christina actually saw her walking around the park with uh Caylee I think that was that was uh the week before if I'm not mistaken but but anyway where where else do you think that she would...

CA:

Yea but Christina changed her story because remember I... that day I told (Over talking) but I mean she she changed it and I don't know why she changed it.

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YM:

Is there...if you were to take,.. Caylee to a park you or Casey and George and you guys are gonna go on a little day out, you want to go to a a local place that you know Caylee liked, where it would be?

CA: I never took Caylee to a park. YM:


Do you know if Casey would? Like the school down the block I guess the school right there on Chickasaw would she go to Chickasaw and take Caylee to play on the playground or...? (Unintelligible) did she like did she like uh houses did she like new houses been build, did she like that construction thing, big trucks...?

CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

No. Did she like fire trucks, did she like uh...? She liked the airplanes. Okay. Caylee like the (Over talking) Did they ever go down there and watch the airplanes land at 01A? But you can't stay there any more like you used to. All right.

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CA: EE: CA:

You used to be able to pull over... Homeland Security is all over there. Yea we used to take the kids when they were little and watch the airplanes (Over talking) you can't do that anymore.

YM:

Anything that she liked to do like like me time with Caylee that she would tell you about?

CA:

... Just the normal just normal stuff, I mean just you know hanging out, letting Caylee play at the house or meeting up with Christina or...

YM:

But like a just a me and Caylee day, would did she ever say a me like me and Caylee day, were gonna go do this she likes doing this, horses you know I don't know there's a lot of farm land out there, did she like going to see horses or cows or sheep or anything like that?

CA:

No she never talked about taking her to see animals or anything. I mean she talked about taking her to the Sanford Zoo, George and I took Caylee to the Sanford Zoo last year and she liked it; we talked about um doing it but I haven't heard that she had done it cause Casey said she'll like to see her at the zoo. I'm sorry I mean I don't...

YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

No... we (unintelligible) I know but I can't (Over talking...) Were trying to pick your brain for information just to... I can't think anything... Try and... I can't pick anything out. Okay.

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EE:

What about the mall did she like taking Caylee to the mall like riding the little rides at the mall anything like that?

CA: YM:

Um she never talked about it. Okay.

CA: I mean cause even the day... YM: Cause in the Publix's and Albertson's might have those little like space ships or something? CA: I never heard her talk about doing that and I never put Caylee on those things. YM: Have you ever been with them to Blancher Park and play in the playgrounds over there or...? CA: Um only um during my um picnic for Christmas last year, was a work picnic for my therapist that came... YM: CA: YM: CA: EE: CA: EE: CA: YM: So is not some place you guys would go as a family, do picnics or...? Now I know Casey said that she would meet Zany at the Blancher Park. Okay... do you know what part of Blancher Park? No and I know is a big park. When would she say things like that? Just randomly. Okay. That she would go to the park or something... Did she and in the time that she left here I know she said stories about been at Universal or Tampa or Bush Gardens or the beach, did she ever mentioned the park? CA: YM: No. Okay it was al it was all these other places (Over talking)

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CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: EE: CA: YM: CA:

She did mentioned going out on a boat um when she was with Jeff... And that was after the 16th ? Yea it was somewhere... When Jeff was in town then? No it was somewhere when she was... Okay. Told me she was back in Jacksonville which we never got to... Right. Do that which was Sunday here... Mom's vacation week? Yea. All right. Yea cause I drove to Universal to pick up Caylee that day and when I called her she wasn't there...

lo
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YM:

Up until up until this day when (unintelligible) Go ahead I'm sorry... They found out she said she was in Jacksonville. On the 3rd ? Um huh (affirmative) Up up until up until this day and I know that when we first talked you said that you hadn't you hadn't seen Caylee for a month and you were very worried because she wouldn't say where she was and of course...

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EE:
CA:

EE:
CA: YM:

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CA:

Well is not that she wouldn't say where she was, she had an excuse why I couldn't talk to Caylee.

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YM:

Right (Over talking) but you but you were very worried about that right?

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CA:
2 3 4 5 6 7

Well is it (Over talking) it was not a normal thing that I didn't get a chance to talk to Caylee.

YM:

But you were very worried about where Caylee was cause she wasn't letting you see Caylee right?

CA: YM: CA:

No I wasn't worried about where Caylee was except on the 15 th ... Okay. That's when I started to worry about (Over talking)

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YM: I want to share something with you, okay?

EE:
YM: EE:

Can I can I make one point here please? Sure. I I just need to (inaudible) this down before you go in there, so you went to pick up Caylee...?

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CA:

At Universal. Okay what time was that? Urn... it was between 2:30 and 3:00 and I have the receipt from the parking lot were I paid ten dollars to go into Universal.

EE:
CA:

EE:
YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

Okay and that was Casey's...? You pay by cash or charge? Cash. Okay. But I have the receipt I think is still in my car. Wonderful okay. So can we have it? Sure. Excellent it'll save a phone call

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EE:
CA:

EE:

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I'll give you whatever you want. Okay please don't give it to the attorney cause I know he's not... I won't. Gonna give it to me. Yea he hasn't given us anything if you ever given him (Over talking) anything to give to us.

EE: CA: EE: YM:

EE: CA:

Casey asked you to come pick her up or...? No she said that there is a possibility I just took it upon my self because she... knew where she said she was at...

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YM: CA: YM:

Um huh (affirmative) She said she was in town and that she was working and... So you went there to go see her?

CA: I went to go see her and then when I called her... EE: CA: Okay. (inaudible) I said I'm outside guest services um when I can I meet you so you can take me to Caylee? She says...well I'm not there mom I'm in Jacksonville then I said well I know your not seen um Ryan because I've already called Ryan... YM: CA: Urn huh (affirmative) And Ryan had told me that either that morning or the morning before that she had talked about possibly going up there to visit him. EE: CA: EE: CA: EE: You know where she was that day though from talking to all these kids? No. She was getting a tattoo... Tattoo... That day.

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CA: YM: CA: EE:

Yea I didn't know that at the time. Okay. And I knew that happened somewhere around here cause I talked to... That was at the (Over talking...) yea who's that fellow urn that she was with when she did that, some of the friends are saying that there was somebody with her but I don't know who it was....

CA: I don't know urn urn Corey and Shawn is their friend that does that tattoos so he
would be able to urn... see in fact I had asked Shawn at some point if he could get me... the guys name cause I said I wanted to go talk to him and see what her feelings were that day.

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YM:

Did you did...did you do anything after after you went over to Universal, she said you (over talking...)

CA: YM: CA:

Yea while I was at Universal she knew I was there... Urn huh (affirmative) When I came back to the house Caylee's teddy bear was gone and a couple of Casey's things were gone and she told me that Juliet had come by and picked up some stuff.

YM: CA: YM:

What do you think really happened? Well I don't know she picked up some stuff. Did you do anything else at all that day to show you concern did you did you reach out to anyone or...?

CA: YM: CA:

We reached out to Lee. Okay. That was the first time I reached out to Lee, well actually urn I think I don't know if

I did or George told Lee to call me.

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1 YM:
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Okay so you you became really concern that day?

CA: I was getting pissed. I was getting mad. YM: CA: EE: Is it it is is that is that the reason you wrote this?
Probably... probably because I wanted Casey to read it because at that point... That's why she wrote back what she wrote on the 7th ?

CA: I didn't ever saw anything she wrote back, I never saw anything she wrote back
SO

I never saw that comment; do you have something from the 7th ?

EE:

Well if if you have a way to research and read it before the press does, I would maybe strongly encourage you...

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CA: I haven't seen the 7 th response. I never saw anything I mean I swear of God I
never saw anything from the 7th .

EE:

Well this is this I'm gonna tell you what, take this as a shot across the (inaudible) that we are bringing you into the know not wanting you to be embarrassed as a grieving or a panicking family member okay, normally we would sit out here...

CA: YM: CA: YM: EE: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA:

Oh diary of Case.......is that on her Space? Well is.... Is that one her space? It was. And you can interpret that some of the things as her response to... On the July 7th ... We look at everything.

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I know hey...
Everything.

I did not see this (Over talking......) are these words to a a song?

YM: No.

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goo ev

CA:
2

Or...

YM: Actually she she created that on her laptop uh of if I'm not mistaken... CA: My laptop.

4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

YM: On the laptop the same (inaudible) EE: You need (inaudible......) don't you?

CA: I have the tower but I can't get into Casey's side of the tower and that's were all the pictures are and the videos of Caylee and all that stuff (Over talking...) YM: She couldn't give you a password... CA: She told me it was timer55 and we tried it, we cant it won't let us in so I don't know if the tab password defaulted... EE: Well you might want to check with Lee too because (Over talking...)

CA: Lee says he's tried to get on it he can't get on it. EE: But Lee also had a problem with the laptop and it looks like she or someone... deleted from this day back. YM: They were trying to do that on the laptop. EE: So that's long before we came across you brought those to (inaudible) CA: Right. EE: That that...

CA: Right. EE: For whatever reason...

CA: Yea cause I think you guys got the laptop the 16th or 17...not maybe 17 th or 18th YM:ea. CA: Cause that came after the fact the (Over talking...) YM: Yea that was after.

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And urn the 15 th came back that night and I think they came and got the laptop when they got the car.

YM:

But I want I wanted to share these with you, I wanted to ask you about this and wanted to share this one with you cause again we we have to look at the big picture and like you mentioned several times, were building the puzzle when all these pieces start (inaudible) start getting a look of what the puzzle looks like... whether you like what the puzzle looks like or not...

CA:

Well I had heard from some of her friends that Casey had told them that I was controlling her life and I had told her I said Casey why do you say that? I told you you can move out whenever you want, the only stipulation is if you move out you got to have way to...to support Caylee and I want to make sure she has a place and you're not just going from friend to friend. And that's why when she was talking to me all these time it was like well mom you know I've been thinking about moving out, Jeff and I are thinking about been a family blah, blah, blah I'm thinking well then give her her space and let her go. And that was why I didn't...

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EE: CA: EE: CA:

Jeff? Jeff... Jeff... Not...Tony or...? But see Jeff was in her in her phone two years ago as boyfriend so Jeff could be (Over talking) any boy I mean Jeff could be any new boyfriend or any boyfriend (inaudible) to boyfriend.

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YM:

I'll tell you is not, is not Jeff Hopkins from Jacksonville. There's a Jeff Hopkins here who went to school with her.

CA:

Right. We talked to him

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CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: EE: CA:

Right. Is not Jeff Hopkins from Jacksonville. And (inaudible) too... Anyway... There is a Jeff Hopkins in Jacksonville but he's (Over talking) There's quite a few Jeff Hopkins in Jacksonville. Yea well... You gonna miss your thing. Well we we got to be on the road, we have to get back home and get on the road (inaudible) can changing in our stuff so we can get going.

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YM:

The receipts from Universal the one with the parking receipts (Over talking) are they downstairs?

CA: YM: CA: YM: EE: CA:

I think is in... no is in my car at the house, I'll bring it to you Monday. Pull aside, yea pull aside... Urn huh (affirmative) I think is still in my cup holder. Is that okay? Is your case brother. I think I think is in my cup holder and hopefully is not wet but I never took it out of the car.

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YM: CA: YM: EE:

Not a problem. And I didn't throw it away. Not a problem. Okay.

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YM: Um ...

EE:

Cause we don't even... need to ask for the other receipts.

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YM: CA: EE: CA:

Nah as you can see by the thickness of that book there. The urn... This is just my... JC Penney receipt receipts from when she actually purchase (inaudible) envelop with... the reason I gave them to Jose is I offered them up that (Over talking...)

YM: CA:
YM:

Urn huh (affirmative) To several people and even days later... I think John said we don't need those. And and you understand why... Right... Okay. So that's what I thought well then shit let someone else look at the time line and try to figure out because they were gonna go look at video cameras and things like that in the store, I wanted someone to see if they can pinned down where Caylee was.

CA: YM: CA:

EE: CA: EE: CA:

(inaudible) Economics Detectives that are right there... All right but see...

I'm just tell I'm trying...


No one told me why you guys didn't need them and you can understand from my point of view this is something that we can look at and you guys...

YM: CA:

Well we cant we cant we cant you you understand what we say... But Yuri right from the very beginning before I urn... when I first found out about that was on the media, you know... I thought you guys someone had told me that night which was Wednesday morning...

YM:

Urn huh (affirmative)

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CA:

That there was gonna be a missing persons bulletin that day, we stayed glue to the TV all day long...

YM: CA: YM: CA: YM:

Let me explain that. For Caylee... right exactly... Can I explain that one to you? Right go ahead explain it. The reason we didn't put it out at 7:00 in the morning when we had dropped Casey off was because I already had indications that she was lying to us about who all these people were. Before I put Caylee out there I need to verify who I need to try find her because if I put Caylee's face out there at 7:00 in the morning and this person has Caylee they'll go uh shot they're coming to get me so...

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CA:

George and I are reasonable people we could have understood that, I mean all day long were looking for her picture on the news.

YM: CA:

And that's why we didn't do that. Right and then before because the media was beating door our doors and I told them I said I'm not talking to anybody until I speak to the lead Detective's.

YM:

Just like Georgia just like Georgia and she wanted us to put that composite out...why? If we knew the plane and we getting that itinerary and were getting the the passenger manifest why we got to spook this lady by telling her were coming...

CA: YM: CA: YM: CA:

Okay. See that's why we don't do this. Okay and do you have to have a passenger manifest? This this came to us, is in your name. Middleton...

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It looks like a card, just a card but I'm not opening it cause it's yours. Well let me open it...
So...

CA:

YM:
CA:

I don't care.

YM:

I just wanted to I think is just like (inaudible...) what it is so I want to make sure
you get that before you even...

CA:

Well (inaudible) you can read it. I'll say (inaudible) kind of paperwork...

EE:

CA: My prayers are with you every day and night please know that your not alone, my heart feels your pain, I'll keep praying God gives you the strength to keep going a grandmother (inaudible...) move heaven and earth it was my grandchild so please don't give up the faith.

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YM:
CA:

That what we thought it was gonna be so... Yea (inaudible) Is okay is yours.

YM:

CA: No, I mean just like that day when Annie dropped off stuff... I mean you went and you even looked at it like what's that? Well let me read it first, it came to me and then you can read it (chuckle) I'll give it to you.

YM:

That's that's because we never know what what's gonna say.

CA: I know.

YM:

We (inaudible) show this to the Police we gonna do this or hey don't show this to the Police but I know...

CA: I've gone thru Casey's room over and over again, I took every piece out of her closet, every item of clothing, shook it out, I took everything out of all her stuff to see if I can find anything and I can't. I mean I've gone thru stuff and...

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YM:

And were doing everything that we can reaching out to every one that we can, when these people face's pop up on the news like on this pictures I throw out were getting phone calls saying hey I'm one of those people, I need to talk to you cause I don't have any clue what's going on I don't want my name dragged in the mud. They reaching out to us as fast as were even reach out to them so hopefully now you see kind of where we been doing, where we been gone, hopefully were all on the same sheet of music...

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA: CA: YM: CA: YM: CA:

Right. Okay. But... We been (Over talking) Let me give you this to George other connections the one that saw... um Caylee at the gas station, that she says there should be video that we were you aware of that Sunny Breeze one she said there was a robbery... forty five minutes at that gas station a friend owns the gas station... We already... You guys pulled that out? We've already called that was... Okay. That was a while ago. That was the same day as this lady. UM.... It was the same day as Amy cause I got the calls the same day. We got to call no I'll have to check (Over talking...) Sheila was (Over talking)

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YM:

Also understand that with all the tips, I'm not handling the tips.

CA: I know your not.


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YM:

We got somebody handling that.

CA: I know. YM: CA: YM: EE:


So I can focus on... Right. Other things, I can focus on this.

I want to ask you a favor, we just met... I need the three gas cans because I
think that there may have been a male... involved in that when she when she got them, is there any way that we can maybe look at those again?

CA: EE: CA: EE: CA:

Yea absolutely (Over talking) Cause if there's a fingerprint of something on that... Oh absolutely. From someone that... George now I know... um I don't know if Lee had borough them at all cause Lee borough (inaudible) gas cans so Lee's prints can be on there.

YM: EE: YM: CA: YM:

We can double check. Okay. No problem. As well but whatever you guys need I mean... Okay.

CA: I mean you guys can come and look and take whatever EE: CA: EE:
Maybe we'll just get that done (Over talking...) out of the way. Okay. Yea.

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YM: EE:

II And then... I'm were done I think (Over talking...) CA; EE: Okay. You want us to come here Monday at what time? When is good for you? How about 9:00 o'clock 9:30? All right. Cause we got I want to (Over talking...) more things here and finish this month off. Let me know... Let's just Monday...

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CA: EE: YM: CA: EE:

YM: EE: YM: CA: EE: CA: YM:

Okay. Yea. What time you got right now? Oh we need to get going. I don't want George... 12:05. Driving fast... Okay.

THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY


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Signed this 12th day of June, 2009.

CORPORAL ERIC EDWARDS, OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF


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