Club 24 Thread: Form

http://www.xperteleven.com/viewLeagueMessageN.aspx?threadID=4970139&read=1&Lnr=0&dh=4

Basilbrush303 [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Basilbrush303] Blev medlem: 2006-02-17 mne: Form Skrivet: 2009-06-10 23:32:57 Citera Svara I have been pretty busy recently but tonight I have some spare time so I thought I would post this....... A while ago I was in Supersprint's Xpert Analyze league which was set up to be much like Gildar's Xpert Tactics league when I came across a particular thread there which held some of Iwe's posts in various forums, but mainly the Swedish ones. At first I had some opinions on them which proved to be half right and when I left I also showed it to Duffster and Blu though I don't think I put what I was trying to get at in a clear way. Just to set the scene, my Xpert team at the times Prima FC which you can find here. http://www.xperteleven.com/players.aspx?TeamID=35663&Boost=0&dh=1 They are fairly unchanged and since I left have bought a defender and sold a midfielder. The younger players are irrelevant. I set out to find out if the following post held true and to what extent. The most important point I would like to make about my team was that I could and did always play my strongest team, no matter what. Most of you don't really ever get the opportunity to do this every game as you always have jnrs that have to play at some point or match experience to consider. I had no such concerns. Originally posted by: iwe The form is affected by the performance in the games and in some aspect the results of the game. There are a lot of factors involved but to be general you can take this as a fact: 1) The size of the form changes are depending on the player's current form. If the player gets a positive affect on the form the form change is percentage of the form the player doesn't (the form left to 20 form bars). If the player gets a negative affect on the form the form change is percentage of the form the player current has. This means that if a player has a high form the form reductions will be bigger and the form increases will be smaller and vice versa. 2) Directly after the match all players in the squad will get a normal form update that has nothing to do with the match itself and is only depending on the players' hidden form tendency and a random value. This normal update will mostly have greater affect than any form affect due to the match. 3) The form changes due to performances and results in a match are depending on you and your opponents team strength. If you play a match against a team that is weaker than your team the team is expected to win and therefore the form will not be affected very much if you win. But if your team play against a stronger opponent the form increase if you win will be greater. This also works vice versa so if you lose against a weaker team the negative affect on the players will be greater. This means that if you have are weak team you will NOT get affected by the losses as much. And if you have a really strong team you will not gain very much form when you win or perform well cause you are expected to win. 4) The team parts has some simple mission (very general speaking) * The goalkeeper is supposed to prevent the opponents from scoring on the chances they have created * The defenders is supposed to prevent the opponents from creating chances * The midfielders are supposed to create chances * The forwards are supposed to score on the chances If a team part succeed in its "mission" the players in that team part will get a positive affect on the form proportional to the extent of the success. This means that if the team creates 15 chances and no goals. The midfielders will get a quite a significant form increase but the forwards will get quite a significant form reduction. The actual result of the game, if you win or you lose or the match ends in a draw is NOT very important to the form

changes. Conclusion: The form changes due to match performances are depending on your opponent. If you win against teams that are stronger then yes you will get a bigger positive affect in the player's form. But if you lose a match against a stronger opponent you might still get a positive affect on the players' form if the team made a good performance. The form changes are depending on your team's performance compared to what was expected from the team against that opponent. There are some interesting points here and also in the conclusion and I mainly focused on the following: 1. The form changes due to match performances are depending on your opponent. This as Sleeping Bear would say, is massively important. Every game is a comparative and The form changes are depending on your team's performance compared to what was expected from the team against that opponent is much easier to judge if you are always playing your strongest team. 2. The team parts has some simple mission By always playing to win and by putting out the best players I could I believe it becomes easier to test if this part was true and to what effect it made on the form. Having another 5 teams helped but I also asked certain mangers about specific games and changes in their players form in certain areas. Some of you reading this may remember this. Or not. 3. Directly after the match all players in the squad will get a normal form update that has nothing to do with the match itself and is only depending on the players' hidden form tendency and a random value. Setting aside the random value as just a value that will be added I looked at what was causing the hidden form to change if I was fulfilling all my 'missions'.

Conclusions The reason a forward will lose a whole bunch of form after scoring a hattrick and winning the game is that the forwards did not do well enough or score enough from that chances provided. You forwards did not fulfill their 'mission' as your team, judged against the opposition should have won by 5 goals and so your forwards suffer. Remember that The actual result of the game, if you win or you lose or the match ends in a draw is NOT very important to the form changes and I believe that the engine is blind when 'punishing' the front line and does not take into account who scored goals at all. Thats the changes in hidden form tendency are actually random. I regularly won with Prima FC and found that it cost me very little to keep my form high (15 or above) with a team that was quite old and would have an elastic band point of 10 form or perhaps lower for some players. Most weeks I would have to do only about 3 form trainings a week and as long as my team fulfilled its mission compared to what was expected my form rarely moved, week in, week out. However sometimes it did and quite sharply too (I am sure you are all quite aware of the equation set out by Iwe about form dropping when the hidden form turns negative and the higher it is, the bigger the fall). These drops nearly always happened to players (assuming I won i did everything right) that played perfectly well, did not fail in their mission (or there unit did not) and had good last lineup values. After some time and keeping a record of these I came to the conclusion that changes in the hidden form are random and not based on results. They are also a lot less frequent than I thought and that many changes in form that I had previously put down to this in all my teams was actually just my team failing in its mission compared to what the result the system expected of my team. If you want your form to hold in general or especially for the next game where you will not be able to form train in time for it always look at your team vs opponent and try and figure out what the engine will expect. If you are playing a crap team in the Cup then you need to thrash them if you want your form to hold for your next league game in all areas of your team. This where you need to play your best team and most managers don't as these games tend to be ideal to play jnrs who need a run out. Hope you enjoyed it.

We are all Champions. We are all Walter Smith. Flytta till verst p sidan Bejjita [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Bejjita] Blev medlem:

2008-06-05 Svar till: Basilbrush303 Skrivet: 2009-06-10 23:46:41 Uppdaterat: 2009-06-10 23:52:06 Citera Svara Thanks very much Basil that was excellent I've saved it into my notes. EDIT - This makes a lot of sense actually. When I was with my original official side Hardly Athletic I often had the worst side in the league by 2 strength bars or so and got hammered but I often did well tactically and as a result I think my team overachieved or. Completed their expected mission.. like to miss only 2 chances instead of 4 . And my form used to hover around 17.. and this was when I was absolutely broke.

EDIT 2! - I have an example that illustrates your point perfectly. In my Xpert Series league, I often chop and change my sides and I'm against teams with a weaker core so I think I'm expected to win, and this causes form drops. But one side in the league - Hoang Kong FC actually have a stronger 11 than me. Now in this match I only made 1 chance all game and it was scored. The forwards scored 100% of their chances. Hover over all the strikers and check their ratings. Mr Coles was a 10 skill, and the other two were 6 skills: http://www.xperteleven.com/gameDetails.aspx?GameID=6265473&dh=3 I wondered why they were so high but it makes sense. I was expected to lose but they fulfilled their mission so their rating, and thus form increase reflected this.

Deus Ex Machina.. future XCL winners. Flytta till verst p sidan Colinzink [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Colinzink] Blev medlem: 2008-01-18 Svar till: Basilbrush303 Skrivet: 2009-06-11 00:31:12 Citera Svara BB, this is ace.

They took you nightman and you don't belong to them. They locked me in a world of darkness without your sexy hands, and I miss you nightman...sooo baaaaaaaaaaaaaad! Flytta till verst p sidan Basilbrush303 [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Basilbrush303] Blev medlem:

2006-02-17 Svar till: Colinzink Skrivet: 2009-06-11 00:40:56 Citera Svara Haven't been contributing much recently so I thought I would show some love

We are all Champions. We are all Walter Smith. Flytta till verst p sidan Slump [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] Blev medlem: 2007-03-01 Svar till: Basilbrush303 Skrivet: 2009-06-11 00:45:28 Citera Svara Ursprungligen postat av: Basilbrush303 If you are playing a crap team in the Cup then you need to thrash them if you want your form to hold for your next league game in all areas of your team. This where you need to play your best team and most managers don't as these games tend to be ideal to play jnrs who need a run out. This will be why everyone always hates playing in the cup when trying to retain good form, as playing youngsters etc will mean you don't win 23-0 like you should do against that division 8 side and thus form overall suffers. Flytta till verst p sidan Saint_Ash [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Saint_Ash] Blev medlem: 2007-02-21 Svar till: Slump Skrivet: 2009-06-11 13:50:53 Citera Svara Good shit Mr Brush. Makes perfect sense. Also explains why, when I look at the monster teams in the XCL, they all have very good form. It's because the defenders don't concede much, the mids create a fair amount and the strikers bang them away. It is sort of making the strong sides stay stronger (with decent tactics). So I take it the squad players that don't play just get the random form changes at the end of the game? A follow up to what Slump says aswell, if you play your strongest 11 in every cup game then the forms won't be shot to pieces. It's the injuries that people don't like in the cup though.

Do something special http://www.blood.co.uk/platelets/

Flytta till verst p sidan Richardfenn [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Richardfenn] Blev medlem: 2006-03-29 Svar till: Saint_Ash Skrivet: 2009-06-11 13:56:34 Citera Svara Squad players get the form changes based on FT plus a slight drop for not playing. Yay.

If all else fails, just sod it and go to the pub. Flytta till verst p sidan Saint_Ash [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Saint_Ash] Blev medlem: 2007-02-21 Svar till: Richardfenn Skrivet: 2009-06-11 14:02:32 Citera Svara I'm starting to think that a squad of 14 players is the way to go!!

Do something special http://www.blood.co.uk/platelets/ Flytta till verst p sidan Basilbrush303 [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Basilbrush303] Blev medlem: 2006-02-17 Svar till: Saint_Ash Skrivet: 2009-09-05 09:38:17 Citera Svara just bumped as soon to disappear

We are all Champions. We are all Walter Smith.

Flytta till verst p sidan Mistra [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Mistra] Blev medlem: 2007-08-17 Svar till: Basilbrush303 Skrivet: 2009-09-13 01:53:06 Citera Svara Ursprungligen postat av: Basilbrush303 3) The form changes due to performances and results in a match are depending on you and your opponents team strength. If you play a match against a team that is weaker than your team the team is expected to win and therefore the form will not be affected very much if you win. But if your team play against a stronger opponent the form increase if you win will be greater. This also works vice versa so if you lose against a weaker team the negative affect on the players will be greater. dunno why it crossed my mind now, after 3 months... anyway, when Iwe talks about 'team strength', what does he mean exactly? i.e. does it take into consideration starting line-up only, or starting line-up + substitutes or the whole team? Flytta till verst p sidan Duffster [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Anvndaren r ligaboss fr ligan] [r med i Hall Of Fame!] [Duffster] Blev medlem: 2006-09-11 Svar till: Basilbrush303 Skrivet: 2009-09-13 13:25:38 Citera Svara I'll put this here for now & when it's tried i'll give you(s) a better idea & perhaps at least something to back it up, as for now it's not been tested by me, so it holds no water at all & haven't really spoken about it except from discussing it with another manager via mailage. But in the cup (a negative form area) - I "think" WIN BONUS has a negative effect on form (esp if stronger) and not just form but the actual chance of winning, by WB I of course mean the use of it. Next season I won't use a WB at all in the cup (official lges) - and see what outcome I have on form & the outcome of results (more so earlier when I face weaker squads. Iwe has it seems hinted that WB can actually boost form - which i'm sure we have some experience with in regular games, I don't believe the higher the bonus the greater the chance of form holding (angst may confirm this? I know XT have tested it & not really found anything to back it up) I've tried it too it nothing to add by the sum of econ offered imo. My theory is this is reverse for the cup - so not offering a WB holds the positive on form & offering WB has negative impact - as for winning I believe the stronger team has less chance of winning the match by handing out WB - of course they may still win dependant on situation and a number of other factors, but imo will make it more difficult on the outcome of the match. I didn't really want to post it until i've at least got something to back it up, so do take it with a pinch & feel free to shoot it down as I can't exactly argue for it. But that is my thinking atm & as I say i'll let you know if anything comes of it.

The usefulness of a cup is its emptiness.

http://www.xperteleven.com/viewGlobalMessageN.aspx?threadID=3841256&forumid=26&read=1 Flytta till verst p sidan Bejjita [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Bejjita] Blev medlem: 2008-06-05 Svar till: Duffster Skrivet: 2009-09-13 13:44:26 Citera Svara Ok cool, I have a few things to ask you Duff. 1 - Is the manager you discussed this with Forza , as he hasn't used a win bonus in the cup. 2 - As the weaker side in a cup tie, do you still think the win bonus is beneficial (as naturally what you say will apply to Alandia as they are the strongest, but as the weaker side?) Thanks.

Deus Ex Machina.. future XCL winners. Flytta till verst p sidan Duffster [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Anvndaren r ligaboss fr ligan] [r med i Hall Of Fame!] [Duffster] Blev medlem: 2006-09-11 Svar till: Bejjita Skrivet: 2009-09-13 14:01:03 Citera Svara Never spoken with Forza before but watching with interest. This I believe wouldn't apply to weaker teams, by weaker I mean a large gulf in strength, I reckon the stronger team would hand a better chance in favour of the "weaker" team by the use of WB - If both teams are similar (give or take a bar or two) then if this holds what i've been thinking, then the team that avoids the WB would increase their chance of winning the match.

The usefulness of a cup is its emptiness. http://www.xperteleven.com/viewGlobalMessageN.aspx?threadID=3841256&forumid=26&read=1 Flytta till verst p sidan Bejjita [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Bejjita] Blev medlem: 2008-06-05 Svar till: Duffster Skrivet: 2009-09-13 14:19:28 Citera

Svara Interesting, that worries me if it is actually true because Forza are stronger than me but not HUGELY stronger.. hmm, regardless, these are the cup reports I have from Forza where they have no WB: http://www.xperteleven.com/cupGameDetails.aspx?GameID=1123953&dh=1 4-5-1 << Formation >> 5-3-2 Normal << Playing style >> Normal Long range shots << Offence >> Varied Tighten the centre << Defence >> Normal No << Prepared >> No Normal << Aggression >> Normal No << Long balls >> Yes No << Pressure >> Yes Yes << Offside traps >> Yes No << Cheating >> No No << Win bonus >> Yes Michael Hodgson << Playmaker >> Russ Asher Hesh Sohne << Tightly marked >> Michael Hodgson Michael Hodgson << Captain >> Hesh Sohne http://www.xperteleven.com/cupGameDetails.aspx?GameID=1118485&dh=1 Tactic report 4-4-2 << Formation >> 4-4-2 Cautious << Playing style >> Normal Varied << Offence >> Varied Normal << Defence >> Tighten the centre No << Prepared >> Yes Normal << Aggression >> Normal No << Long balls >> No No << Pressure >> No Yes << Offside traps >> Yes No << Cheating >> No No << Win bonus >> No Inge Jback << Playmaker >> Cosimo Centurioni None << Tightly marked >> Karl-Erik Lidheim Karl-Erik Lidheim << Captain >> Casper Sjstrand Neither used a WB here, interesting.. http://www.xperteleven.com/cupGameDetails.aspx?GameID=1051482&dh=1 4-4-2 << Formation >> 4-3-3 Cautious << Playing style >> Normal Through plays << Offence >> Varied Tighten the centre << Defence >> Tighten the centre No << Prepared >> Yes Careful << Aggression >> Normal No << Long balls >> Yes Yes << Pressure >> No No << Offside traps >> No No << Cheating >> Yes Yes << Win bonus >> No Pablo Cordeiro << Playmaker >> Michael Hodgson Michael Hodgson << Tightly marked >> Sonny Alfredsson Asmar Lacerda << Captain >> Casper Sjstrand Quarter final, and still no WB? Absurd IMO but we will see what happens, I think Barb Wire went on to win it that season.

Deus Ex Machina.. future XCL winners. Flytta till verst p sidan

Duffster [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Anvndaren r ligaboss fr ligan] [r med i Hall Of Fame!] [Duffster] Blev medlem: 2006-09-11 Svar till: Bejjita Skrivet: 2009-09-13 14:42:37 Citera Svara But then again I was beat in a QF last season against no WB too.

The usefulness of a cup is its emptiness. http://www.xperteleven.com/viewGlobalMessageN.aspx?threadID=3841256&forumid=26&read=1 Flytta till verst p sidan Colinzink [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Colinzink] Blev medlem: 2008-01-18 Svar till: Duffster Skrivet: 2009-09-13 16:49:51 Citera Svara why would they write the code for WBs to be different in the cup than every other game? It just seems very odd. I've always thought the impact of win bonuses on form was marginal anyways, and that tactics and form tendency were the main drivers to maintaining form, but really if it is true for other matches, it should be true for all matches even the cup, yeah?

They took you nightman and you don't belong to them. They locked me in a world of darkness without your sexy hands, and I miss you nightman...sooo baaaaaaaaaaaaaad! Flytta till verst p sidan Duffster [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Anvndaren r ligaboss fr ligan] [r med i Hall Of Fame!] [Duffster] Blev medlem: 2006-09-11 Svar till: Colinzink Skrivet: 2009-09-13 18:22:42 Citera Svara I don't know m7te & don't know if they have, though tbf the cup is a different ball game, maybe they've made that part of the script for the cup in order to make the cup a little more interesting as in terms of very strong teams not just "walking it" or i'm just talking shite, i'll give it a bash anyway out of interest.

The usefulness of a cup is its emptiness. http://www.xperteleven.com/viewGlobalMessageN.aspx?threadID=3841256&forumid=26&read=1 Flytta till verst p sidan Colinzink [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Colinzink] Blev medlem: 2008-01-18 Svar till: Duffster Skrivet: 2009-09-13 18:32:57 Citera Svara yeah, I agree...I don't understand cup competitions and neutral grounds neways; it just seems a lot less concrete...

They took you nightman and you don't belong to them. They locked me in a world of darkness without your sexy hands, and I miss you nightman...sooo baaaaaaaaaaaaaad! Flytta till verst p sidan Colinzink [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Colinzink] Blev medlem: 2008-01-18 Svar till: Colinzink Skrivet: 2009-09-13 21:53:14 Citera Svara Ironically, I forgot the win bonus today against Aces and pulled off the victory...form was not an issue either, with only 1 red arrow after the game. Take it for what it is worth, just one game of course.

They took you nightman and you don't belong to them. They locked me in a world of darkness without your sexy hands, and I miss you nightman...sooo baaaaaaaaaaaaaad! Flytta till verst p sidan Saint_Ash [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Saint_Ash] Blev medlem: 2007-02-21 Svar till: Colinzink Skrivet: 2009-09-14 11:22:41 Citera Svara I remember Daz saying to me that he only put about 50k on the cup win bone asses or nowt at all and he got to the quarters.

Personally I think it'd be a stupid thing to do for the crew if handing out a win bonus affected form and performance in a cup game. It would still make the players want to win that little bit more!

Do something special http://www.blood.co.uk/platelets/ Flytta till verst p sidan 12

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Frfattare Meddelande Dmandmythdledge [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Dmandmythdledge] Blev medlem: 2006-06-04 Svar till: Mistra Skrivet: 2009-09-27 16:03:50 Citera Svara Ursprungligen postat av: Mistra dunno why it crossed my mind now, after 3 months... anyway, when Iwe talks about 'team strength', what does he mean exactly? i.e. does it take into consideration starting line-up only, or starting line-up + substitutes or the whole team? I was going to ask the same thing. Anybody know?

The Chaos Cartel...simply the best Free the Karlos 1 Flytta till verst p sidan Mistra [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Mistra] Blev medlem: 2007-08-17 Svar till: Dmandmythdledge Skrivet: 2009-09-27 16:26:07 Citera Svara according to Basil it's the team, nothing verified though...the thing that crossed my mind and the reason why i asked was if 'team strength' that Iwe mentions is strength of the whole team/team parts, i.e. 'team strength' from the team page, wouldn't be possible to sign few players very low in skill and profit on that form-wise? Flytta till verst p sidan gildar [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [r med i Hall Of Fame!] [gildar] Blev medlem: 2004-02-08 Svar till: Mistra Skrivet: 2009-09-27 17:15:56 Uppdaterat: 2009-09-27 17:17:36 Citera Svara Ursprungligen postat av: Mistra according to Basil it's the team, nothing verified though...the thing that crossed my mind and the reason why i asked was if 'team strength' that Iwe mentions is strength of the whole team/team parts, i.e. 'team strength' from the team page, wouldn't be possible to sign few players very low in skill and profit on that form-wise?

I've thought about that too. 15 or so 10-skilled players plus 5 0-skilled would give an average strength of 7,5 and that could perhaps be enough to give both a form and ranking bonus when defeating another 10-skilled team? A few comments to the top post: Ursprungligen postat av: Basilbrush303 I believe that the engine is blind when 'punishing' the front line and does not take into account who scored goals at all. There are three levels that are taken in consideration; the individual player's performance, the team part's performance and the whole team's performance. The individual player will get a positive form bonus for each goal scored and a negative for each chance missed. All the forwards will then get a positive or negative modifier depending on the overall goal to chance ratio. Then all players in the team will get a modifier depending on the outcome of the game. A long time ago (march 2004) Iwe mentioned that a forward lose 3% of their form for each missed chance and get 4% of the difference between present form and twice their norm for each goal scored (=the individual modifier), but I don't know if these numbers still apply. If they do, it's no wonder forwards generally have trouble keeping their form as high as defenders or midfielders. Ursprungligen postat av: Basilbrush303 After some time and keeping a record of these I came to the conclusion that changes in the hidden form are random and not based on results. A player's hidden tendency can change during the game, though it isn't very common. Things we "know" can turn the tendency to negative are injuries and missed penalties, the ones that turn the tendency to positive are harder to spot, probably because we generally train the player as soon as we get a negative FT anyway.

~~ Team Sweden ~~ just nu *nst* bst i vrlden! :) Flytta till verst p sidan Mistra [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Mistra] Blev medlem: 2007-08-17 Svar till: gildar Skrivet: 2009-09-27 19:08:35 Citera Svara Ursprungligen postat av: gildar I've thought about that too. 15 or so 10-skilled players plus 5 0-skilled would give an average strength of 7,5 and that could perhaps be enough to give both a form and ranking bonus when defeating another 10-skilled team? yeah, my point exactly, i think it could work, however in terms of team's economy, development of players etc one would have to find balance, i.e. wasting 5 spots for 0-skilled players with no future certainly is not profitable in the long run, but it could be worthwhile to fill any available, not used slots with low-skilled players. another benefit of this approach is form masking. and cheers for extra info Flytta till verst p sidan gildar [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [r med i Hall Of Fame!] [gildar] Blev medlem: 2004-02-08 Svar till: Mistra

Skrivet: 2009-10-15 16:16:26 Citera Svara Ursprungligen postat av: Mistra the thing that crossed my mind and the reason why i asked was if 'team strength' that Iwe mentions is strength of the whole team/team parts, i.e. 'team strength' from the team page, wouldn't be possible to sign few players very low in skill and profit on that form-wise? According to a recent post by Iwe in the Xpert League forum, the result values are "weighted depending on the strength of the lineups on paper". So lineups it is, not entire squad.

~~ Team Sweden ~~ just nu *nst* bst i vrlden! :) Flytta till verst p sidan Basilbrush303 [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Basilbrush303] Blev medlem: 2006-02-17 Svar till: gildar Skrivet: 2010-02-08 23:05:26 Citera Svara Saved from the forum grinder...

We are all Champions. We are all Walter Smith. Flytta till verst p sidan Basilbrush303 [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Basilbrush303] Blev medlem: 2006-02-17 Svar till: Basilbrush303 Skrivet: 2010-05-20 19:24:32 Citera Svara And again.....

We are all Champions. We are all Walter Smith.

Flytta till verst p sidan Basilbrush303 [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Basilbrush303] Blev medlem: 2006-02-17 Svar till: Basilbrush303 Skrivet: 2010-08-22 01:14:16 Citera Svara bump

We are all Champions. We are all Walter Smith. Flytta till verst p sidan Basilbrush303 [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Basilbrush303] Blev medlem: 2006-02-17 Svar till: Basilbrush303 Skrivet: 2010-12-07 12:27:40 Citera Svara bump because i wrote it

We are all Champions. We are all Walter Smith. Flytta till verst p sidan Basilbrush303 [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Basilbrush303] Blev medlem: 2006-02-17 Svar till: Basilbrush303 Skrivet: 2011-03-10 12:30:52 Citera Svara Rebump

We are all Champions. We are all Walter Smith.

Flytta till verst p sidan Eve [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Eve] Blev medlem: 2006-01-20 Svar till: Basilbrush303 Skrivet: 2011-03-10 12:50:05 Citera Svara Interesting read, I had missed this. Now that we've had a few changes since 2009, is the Cup wb info still valid?

Professor Farnsworth:- Nothing is impossible! Not if you believe in it. That's what being a scientist is all about! Cubert Farnsworth:- No, that's what being a magical elf is all about! - Futurama Flytta till verst p sidan Duffster [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Anvndaren r ligaboss fr ligan] [r med i Hall Of Fame!] [Duffster] Blev medlem: 2006-09-11 Svar till: Eve Skrivet: 2011-06-23 21:42:51 Citera Svara Worth yet another bumpty............?

The usefulness of a cup is its emptiness. http://www.xperteleven.com/viewGlobalMessageN.aspx?threadID=3841256&forumid=26&read=1 Flytta till verst p sidan Osamabenjamin [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Osamabenjamin] Blev medlem: 2007-03-14 Svar till: Duffster Skrivet: 2011-06-24 05:07:45 Citera Svara This is absolute gold, thanks so much Basil for opening the thread. I wonder what determines the result that the game 'expects' in terms of player skills. In the Christ Punchers, both this season and last, I have found it nearly impossible to keep my GK in good form. Now, obviously, theres a couple of things that could be having an effect. 1 being the fact that I keep getting scored

against, so the GK isn't doing his 'part'. However I would have expected this to be offset somewhat by the fact that he's been playing against higher skilled opposition. This is where it gets interesting as well though. In C5, there seems to be an abundance of high skilled MFs and lower skilled FWDs. So the simple question is, are FWDs and GK's matched up to determine the 'expected' result, or is it the offense 'team part' which is weighed up in total? Or is the team part irrelevant, and just the overall team strength considered? Basically, with my very, very small sample size, it looks like the performance of the player seems to have a bigger effect on form than the 'expected result' does. However, this is assuming that team parts are considered when determining this expected result rather than entire team's skill. Also, in terms of squad composition, it's made me think that the way I usually go about re-developing a squad by selling all but one good FWD and bringing in a couple of juniors, and keeping a relatively strong MF, is COMPLETELY wrong, because the MFs will still create chances which the FWDs won't be able to convert, which will lead to a vicious cycle of form reductions for the FWDs and makes their development even more difficult. Time to re-think this approach I think.....

Always to the left... Flytta till verst p sidan Basilbrush303 [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Basilbrush303] Blev medlem: 2006-02-17 Svar till: Duffster Skrivet: 2011-06-24 12:28:11 Citera Svara Ursprungligen postat av: Duffster Worth yet another bumpty............? Clearly! Though it could probably do with a rewrite.

We are all Champions. We are all Walter Smith. Flytta till verst p sidan Osamabenjamin [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Osamabenjamin] Blev medlem: 2007-03-14 Svar till: Basilbrush303 Skrivet: 2011-06-29 03:35:46 Citera Svara I've been giving this a lot of thought over the past week, and am wondering what other people's opinions are regarding the way post-game form is affect in certain teams. As with many things in this game, it sometimes seems that game skews things to benefit certain squad makeups, and punish others for not conforming to what the SYSTEM thinks is ideal.

I want to discuss a match last night in The Country Club. My team, ROW Dark Side, went up against FC Botosani. Here are the stats for the last lineups: ME vs HIM Skill: 10 bars vs 13 bars D: 10 bars vs 13 bars MF: 10 bars vs 13 bars FWD: 10 bars vs 10 bars Possession: 41 - 59 (39-61) Chances: 2 - 2 (0-1) Result: 1-1 draw 5-4-1 << Formation >> 3-5-2 Normal << Playing style >> Defensive Wing plays << Offence >> Wing plays Normal << Defence >> Tighten the centre No << Prepared >> No Bruise << Aggression >> Bruise Yes << Long balls >> No No << Pressure >> Yes No << Offside traps >> No Yes << Cheating >> Yes Yes << Win bonus >> Yes Sang Kelembai << Playmaker >> Alex Filipciuc Cristi Ilie << Tightly marked >> Hang Jebat Homer Giggs << Captain >> Cristi Ilie So we know that form should be affected by what the system's 'expected' outcome should be. In this scenario, I don't think it's too much to expect that when being trumpted by 3 skill bars across the park, that holding on to a draw and creating equal chances is an OK result. Apparently that's not the case. MASSIVE form drops across the board (in all positions), with some on players I can almost guarantee were on a positive FT prior to the game. It seems as though the 'expected' result does indeed hold much less weight than the actual stats of the match. Or maybe 3 skill bars just isn't enough of a difference to make the system expect that you would get beaten? It made me think though, that once again, the game engine really does seem to be made to cater for a 3-5-2, or other midfield heavy formations ONLY. I don't think i'm the only manager that has noticed that long balling seems to have lost its effectiveness, and that if you don't have a team with a strong midfield, you're going to struggle with many aspects of the game, including form, and tacitcal points. To be honest, there isn't really much of a point to this rant. I know that in this situation, my tactics might not have been perfect (only 4 stars, but again, it seems like if you play a 3-5-2, careful, that you're gonna score much higher than a formation and style that attempts to make use of your squad's strengths anyway) but I still feel that managers are penalised in this game unless they play to a specific style. I'd like to see managers be able to use tactics to make a 3-man midfield work for them and be rewarded tactically for doing so, but it seems that instead of that, X11 will expect you to have 5 mids in each lineup, and all that you're offered in terms of tactics if you don't have this, is ways to minimise the damage done, instead of options for you to exploit the advantage that different formations would bring in other areas of the field.

Always to the left... Flytta till verst p sidan Basilbrush303 [Kontakta frfattare inom ligan] [Anvndaren r VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent] [Basilbrush303] Blev medlem: 2006-02-17 Svar till: Osamabenjamin Skrivet: 2011-10-01 00:06:29 Citera

Svara rebumped

We are all Champions. We are all Walter Smith. Flytta till verst p sidan 12

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