emDash Radar: SuspendMe Turbo has entered chat range.

[9:06] Rober1236 Jua: now identify with the fat man

[9:06] emDash Radar: Rober1236 Jua has entered chat range.

[9:06] Rober1236 Jua: he is part of your mind so become him

[9:06] IRC: Dante Quan, you are now leaving the Extropia.

[9:06] Freya Karillion: hi Dixit

[9:06] Rober1236 Jua: become the fat man

[9:06] Rober1236 Jua: Now I will ask you a question

[9:06] Rober1236 Jua: but answer as the fat man

[9:06] Rober1236 Jua: just let his voice come out of your mouth

[9:06] SuspendMe Turbo: i'll try

[9:06] Rober1236 Jua: its hard in SL without VOIP

[9:07] Rober1236 Jua: the first thing that comes to your mind

[9:07] Rober1236 Jua: don't say "I think he would say"

[9:07] emDash Radar: BB Lutwag has entered chat range.

[9:07] Rober1236 Jua: respond "I the fat man is doing this for this reason..."

[9:07] Peer Infinity is Online

[9:07] Rober1236 Jua: Answer in the first person

[9:07] emDash Radar: BB Lutwag has entered chat range.

[9:07] Rober1236 Jua: okay?

[9:07] emDash Radar: Peer Infinity has entered chat range.

[9:07] emDash Radar: Solari Hayashida has entered chat range.

[9:07] emDash Radar: SL4observer Lane has entered chat range.

[9:08] IRC: Dante Quan, you are now entering the Extropia. Everything you say will
be broadcast to IRC.

[9:08] emDash Radar: Rober1236 Jua has entered chat range.

[9:08] Peer Infinity: hi Solari :D

[9:08] Dante Quan: Evening all

[9:08] Solari Hayashida: Hiya Dante ^^

[9:08] Dante Quan: :)

[9:08] Solari Hayashida: Peer? I can't see you yet X3

[9:08] Solari Hayashida still rezzing

[9:08] Peer Infinity: hi everyone :D

[9:08] Peer gives Solari a big hug.

[9:08] BB Lutwag: hi everyone

[9:08] Peer Infinity: sorry Sol, I forgot to tell you about the meeting today...

[9:08] Solari Hayashida: hi BB :)

[9:08] Dante Quan: for those that join us on IRC< Solari is a large cloud.

[9:09] Cancelled Sit

[9:09] Elsa Dickins is Online

[9:09] dandellion Kimban is Online

[9:09] Dante Quan: I thought we were starting at 6?

[9:09] Solari Hayashida: H'lo ^^ I'm a cloud

[9:10] Peer Infinity is reminded of that scene from Winnie the Pooh, where Winnie
was pretending to be a cloud...

[9:10] Dante Quan shakes his head

[9:11] Dixit Writer: hi

[9:11] IRC: PeerInfinity has joined #cosmeng

[9:11] Dante Quan: Peer, anyone in there?

[9:11] Dante Quan: Hi Dixit :)

[9:11] emDash Radar: Dixit Writer has entered chat range.

[9:11] Elsa Dickins is Offline

[9:11] IRC: PeerInfinity: yes, Alonzo, Gareth, and MikeD are here :)

[9:11] IRC: PeerInfinity: hi Alonzo :)

[9:12] IRC: PeerInfinity: hi Gareth :)

[9:12] Dante Quan: Hello, all you disembodnied people

[9:12] emDash Radar: Radar off.

[9:12] GridApps - SL YouTube Player: Say YouTube links in chat to have them play.

[9:13] Dixit Writer: http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=5T_R40Zb--U

[9:13] GridApps - SL YouTube Player: Say YouTube links in chat to have them play.

[9:13] Dixit Writer: lol

[9:13] GridApps - SL YouTube Player: Say YouTube links in chat to have them play.

[9:13] Solari Hayashida: Teleporter, or jeopardy? o.o

[9:13] Solari Hayashida: Hmm, between two bunnies again..? >.>

[9:14] Peer Infinity: :D

[9:14] Solari Hayashida: X3

[9:14] Dante Quan: eh oh, darling

[9:14] Dante Quan: Solari, consider yourself lucky.

[9:14] Solari Hayashida: uh oh?

[9:15] Peer Infinity: don't worry, we'll be nice this time :)

[9:15] Dante Quan: what happened last time?

[9:15] Peer Infinity: though, I can't think of anything not nice about the other
times...

[9:15] Solari Hayashida: X3

[9:15] Dante Quan: awww....

[9:16] Peer Infinity doublesnuggles with Sol, and plays footsie with Dante :)

[9:16] Dante Quan: silly bunny...

[9:17] Delicious Demar is Online

[9:17] Solari Hayashida wriggles between, and pets the bunny pair n.n

[9:18] Dante Quan: :P

[9:18] Peer Infinity: :D

[9:18] SL4observer Lane: :D

[9:18] Dante Quan: BB, did you have any luck with those fractals last time we
spoke?

[9:18] Solari Hayashida: Hi BB, if I forgot to greet you o,o

[9:18] BB Lutwag: what did I say I was doing with fractals

[9:18] Dante Quan: creating an inworld generator, if I recall

[9:19] Dante Quan: sweetie, Peer?

[9:19] Ordinal Festive Humbug - wear me to eat!: Please WEAR me, attaching to
some point on your head.

[9:19] BB Lutwag: hi Solari

[9:19] You decline Davison-Console-Ad from A group member named Cheshyr

Pontchartrain.

[9:19] Rober1236 Jua: So he is a threat

[9:19] Rober1236 Jua: but how do you knwo he is not conscious?

[9:19] Iskrin Nightfire is Online

[9:19] IRC: DLucifer has joined #cosmeng

[9:19] BB Lutwag: one of my ideas that I never did anything with

[9:19] IRC: PeerInfinity: hi Lucifer :D

[9:20] IRC: DLucifer bows

[9:20] IRC: DLucifer: Greetings, all!

[9:20] SuspendMe Turbo: i imagine iam the fat man, but there are no thoughts in
his head

[9:20] Dante Quan: Hello, Dlucifer

[9:20] Solari Hayashida: bonjour, messieur Lucifer

[9:20] SuspendMe Turbo: there are no feelings inside him

[9:21] Dante Quan: I swear I just passed out for five mins, because no-one is
making a word of sense to me

[9:21] SuspendMe Turbo: he just keeps following me, and keeps trying to hit me
[9:21] Dante Quan: SuspendMe, who is following you, and what, indeed, are you
going on about? O.o

[9:22] Rober1236 Jua: Its a dream

[9:22] SuspendMe Turbo: :) a dream i keep having , Dante

[9:22] Peer Infinity: Sus and Rober were having their own private conversation
before I dragged their chairs over here

[9:22] Dante Quan: oh good, for a moment, I thought I was going ga-ga

[9:22] SuspendMe Turbo: a fat man keeps trying to hit me

[9:23] Peer Infinity: hi Lucifer :D

[9:23] Dante Quan: sounds fun, kinky? :P

[9:23] Lucifer Darrow bows

[9:23] Rober1236 Jua: which I have

[9:23] Rober1236 Jua: Hmmm well I can only tell you the technique I have seen
used

[9:23] Dante Quan: Well, now I know we're in trouble

[9:23] Rober1236 Jua: this is not really the place to go much further

[9:23] Rober1236 Jua: it could be just a doubt about yourself

[9:23] Rober1236 Jua: or it could me that you killed someone at the age of 5

[9:24] Rober1236 Jua: SL is not the best place to do these kinds of things in depth

[9:24] SuspendMe Turbo: lol, i would remember

[9:24] Rober1236 Jua: Maybe not

[9:24] Rober1236 Jua: thats why the dream

[9:24] Lucifer Darrow: Ahoy, Sat!

[9:24] Rober1236 Jua: he so big and fat and yet he is not noticed LOL

[9:24] Sat Batra: avast Lucifer

[9:24] Peer Infinity: hi Sat :D

[9:25] Sat Batra: hi peer

[9:25] SuspendMe Turbo: well, i dont notice him, there are other people around, and
they see him

[9:25] Zentinal Ziskey: hello everyone

[9:25] Peer Infinity: hi zentinal, hi Dixit :)

[9:25] Solari Hayashida: Helloooo

[9:26] Dixit Writer: :D

[9:26] Dixit Writer: hhiiiiii

[9:26] BB Lutwag: with the number of people showing up for these meetings we will
soon have critical mass for starting a revolution

[9:26] Dante Quan: forgive me, but i'm going to have to make you look all
cartoonish whilst I turn on avatar imposters

[9:26] Dixit Writer: lol

[9:26] Iskrin Nightfire is Offline

[9:26] Zentinal Ziskey: heh!

[9:26] Dante Quan: and what would we do, BB? Overthrow the Board of Directors?

[9:26] Solari Hayashida: Its a meeting? o.o

[9:26] Peer Infinity: well, that's kinda what we were hoping for...

[9:27] Zentinal Ziskey: oh no, i've stumbled into a secret cabal!

[9:27] Zentinal Ziskey: ;-)

[9:27] Dante Quan: excuse me, I need to take a breather

[9:27] Peer Infinity: yes, the Cosmic Engineers group meets here every Sunday at
10:00 AM PDT

[9:27] SuspendMe Turbo: iam here, just for the cake, iam not really into this
revolution thing

[9:28] Sat Batra: I'm here as a trophy date for Lucifer

[9:28] Peer Infinity can't resist quoting: "the cake is a lie"

[9:28] Dixit Writer: see ya later ^^

[9:28] Rober1236 Jua: Oh really

[9:28] SuspendMe Turbo: iam very confident there will be cake

[9:28] Rober1236 Jua: I have to run but I will be back for that

[9:28] SuspendMe Turbo: bye Robert

[9:28] Lucifer Darrow chuckles at Peer's allusion

[9:28] Rober1236 Jua: Mr Turbo is has been an honour

[9:29] Zentinal Ziskey: perhaps the cake is a virtual truth

[9:29] Peer Infinity: hehe :)

[9:29] SuspendMe Turbo: me and the fat man enjoyed out conversation

[9:29] Multi Gadget v1.52.0 by Timeless Prototype

[9:31] Peer Infinity: hi Arisia :)

[9:31] BB Lutwag: I am behind on the mailing list, 1e messages since I lasted

looked

[9:31] BB Lutwag: 12

[9:32] Dante Quan: eh oh again

[9:32] BB Lutwag: looks like didn't have enough coffee yet, can't type

[9:32] Dante Quan: dont mention coffee, i'm off caffine and cigeratees today, and
i'm dying for both

[9:33] Dante Quan: too much Chili, Lucifer? :P

[9:33] Multi Gadget v1.52.0 by Timeless Prototype

[9:33] Lucifer Darrow: heh

[9:35] Cutter Randt is Offline

[9:35] Vaughn Deluca is Online

[9:36] Dante Quan taps the IRC gateway "Hello? Anyone in there?"

[9:36] IRC: PeerInfinity: hi :)

[9:37] Dante Quan: Peer, your like sand, you get everywhere.

[9:37] IRC: PeerInfinity: hehe :)

[9:37] Taellinu Aichi is Offline

[9:37] Solari Hayashida: X3

[9:38] Zentinal Ziskey: slurl

[9:39] Peer Infinity accepted your inventory offer.

[9:39] Taellinu Aichi is Online

[9:41] Dante Quan puts up a sign on the desk

[9:42] Cutter Randt is Online

[9:42] Dante Quan: dont say you werent warned :P

[9:43] SuspendMe Turbo: what is this thing you call 'group intellect' ?

[9:43] Peer Infinity: hehe :)

[9:44] cosmenggiftbox owned by Giulio Perhaps gave you 'cosmengshirt'

( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Extropia%20Core/141/31/31 ).

[9:46] Dante Quan: a dream machine in the corner?

[9:46] Peer Infinity: try it :)

[9:46] Dante Quan: if I must. :P

[9:47] Dante Quan: oooh heck

[9:47] Zentinal Ziskey: dream machine?

[9:47] Peer Infinity: hmm, looks like you're way too tall for it...

[9:47] Peer Infinity: those plugs are supposed to plug into your neck...

[9:47] Dante Quan: looks like the perfect sort of virtual blackmail to me

[9:48] Dante Quan: better?

[9:48] Dante Quan: nope

[9:48] Dante Quan: hmmm

[9:50] Zentinal Ziskey: back in a while - experimenting with an sl > twitter interface

[9:50] Dante Quan: Oh, Peer? Have you got a copy of 'So you want to be a Seed AI
programmer'? Mine's gone missing :(

[9:51] Peer Infinity: you mean this:

http://sl4.org/wiki/SoYouWantToBeASeedAIProgrammer
[9:51] Dante Quan: yay! I knew you'd have it

[9:51] Dante Quan bearhugs Peer

[9:52] Peer Infinity: :D

[9:53] Dante Quan: anyone here not read the Humanity+ Magazine?

[9:53] Peer Infinity is quite embarassed to not have read it yet...

[9:54] Peer Infinity: http://www.hplusmagazine.com/

[9:54] Dante Quan: thats the one

[9:55] Dante Quan: I was attracted to the EPOC Neuroheadset and the Artificial
Hippocampus, the worlds first direct neuroprostehtic.

[9:58] Peer Infinity: hi Areluna :)

[9:59] Areluna Aeon: Good Morning/Afternoon

[10:00] Iskrin Nightfire is Online

[10:00] Peer Infinity suddenly realizes - have some countries already had the
Daylight Saving shift already?

[10:00] Solari Hayashida: The Netherlands has

[10:01] Vaughn Deluca is Offline

[10:01] Peer Infinity: hi Zobeid :D

[10:01] Peer Infinity: hi Niles :D

[10:01] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: Hi Peer, evreyone

[10:01] Areluna Aeon: hello

[10:02] Dante Quan: 'Hello lag my old friend, i've come to talk to you again'

[10:04] PlanetNiles Dreamscape chuckles

[10:04] IRC: AlonzoTG: The hipocampus is a deeply embedded structure, The part
of the hipocampus everyone's interested in is deep in the temporal lobe, I can't
immagine a surgical technique that could successfully access it....

[10:04] Solari Hayashida: Hi Niles

[10:05] Sen Pixie is Online

[10:05] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: Hi Solari

[10:05] Dante Quan: Alonzo, it has proven very vulenreblel, hence the artificial
construct designed to replace it

[10:05] Dante Quan: i've no doubt the implantation itself causes minor damage,
but nothing that cant be recorvered

[10:07] Zobeid Zuma: What are we discussing today? (The only "hippocampus" I
know is an AD&D monster.)

[10:07] Dante Quan bangs head agaisnt floor

[10:07] Solari Hayashida: its a part of the brain o.o

[10:07] Dante Quan: very important to long-term memories

[10:07] IRC: AlonzoTG: I understand the motivation for the procedure, I just can't
immagine how it would be carried out...

[10:08] Dante Quan: or is it short-term? I forgot

[10:08] Solari Hayashida: cos you banged your head

[10:08] Dante Quan: Alonzo, I endevour to find out as soon as I can. I doubt it's not
without side-effects that may bring about a totally new lifestyle

[10:09] Dante Quan: now theres a point, if you replace the brain, is the subject still
human?

[10:09] Peer Infinity: hehe :)

[10:09] Dante Quan: ;)

[10:10] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: could ev eryone rebake please; I'm surrounded by

a sea of grey and fog

[10:11] Solari Hayashida rebakes. and then there will be cake o.o

[10:11] Dante Quan: I'm putting myself in the oven now.

[10:11] Peer Infinity rebakes...

[10:11] Dante Quan: hmmm....memetic hazard, me thinks

[10:12] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: well what is human?

[10:12] Dante Quan: to me, it is the brain, the interactions, the cells and chemicals
themselves

[10:12] Dante Quan: I cut off my arm, and I am no less human

[10:12] Zobeid Zuma: It has different meanings depending on context.

[10:12] Areluna Aeon: Human is a biological form created by genetic material on a

random basis

[10:13] Solari Hayashida: if you use a prostethic

[10:13] Solari Hayashida: cyborg. but we dont call amputees that...

[10:13] Peer Infinity: hi xyryx :)

[10:13] BB Lutwag: has the meeting moved

[10:13] Dante Quan: well, if this artificial hippocampus works, we may hear a shout
from the connectionist fellows

[10:14] xyryx Simca: Peer: Hi!

[10:14] Lucifer Darrow: I define "human" by genetics only

[10:15] Zobeid Zuma: I'm very bogged, got to relog.

[10:15] Liam Tairov is Online

[10:15] Dante Quan: by running?

[10:15] Dante Quan: o.O

[10:15] Lucifer Darrow: Zobeid is experiencing the Red Queen effect

[10:15] Dante Quan: and whats that, then?

[10:16] Lucifer Darrow: running to stay in place

[10:16] Dante Quan: ah, Wikipedia is my friend :)

[10:16] Arisia Vita: wb Zobi

[10:16] Peer Infinity wonders why Giulio is so late...

[10:17] Dante Quan: I wouldnt be suprised if he was running, that would expalin it.

[10:17] Lucifer Darrow: I think G would want us to start without him...

[10:18] Peer Infinity: yes, so... shall we get onto topic now?

[10:18] Lucifer Darrow: Sure, what is the topic?

[10:18] Dante Quan: no objections here, i've only got a finite supply of bad jokes
[10:18] Peer Infinity: the topic was supposed to be brainstorming what direction the
group should be heading in, what we should be doing next...

[10:19] Lucifer Darrow: There was a lot of traffic on the lists this week about
mainstream criticism/acceptance of H+ ideas

[10:19] Dante Quan: ooh yes, that nasty little duo of blog posts, as well

[10:20] Peer Infinity: hi Morpheus, hi Dryden :)

[10:20] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: please lets

[10:20] Areluna Aeon: hello

[10:20] dandellion Kimban is Offline

[10:20] Zobeid Zuma: I was just thinking about whether we should take an activist
slant. . .

[10:20] Lucifer Darrow: I think most of us here are reluctant to water down our
message and vision to appeal to the masses

[10:20] PlanetNiles Dreamscape waves to teh new arrivals

[10:20] Peer Infinity: welcome back Rober :)

[10:21] You decline Cosmic Engineers @ Extropia Core, Extropia Core (105, 22, 32)
from A group member named xyryx Simca.

[10:21] Lucifer Darrow: How so, Dante?

[10:21] Dante Quan: I would say it IS watered down enough

[10:21] Rober1236 Jua: Hi

[10:21] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: yes so we should sex-up our message without

watering it down

[10:21] Dante Quan: well, the message, to my ears, dosent sound as thought it
invites critisism and possible rejection

[10:21] Elsa Dickins is Online

[10:21] Dante Quan: does*

[10:22] Dante Quan: which I beleive is what watered-down messages normally

sound like.

[10:22] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: what exactly is our message?

[10:22] Solari Hayashida waves quietly. She has to go. Friend in need :x

[10:22] Dante Quan: toodles Solari

[10:22] Peer Infinity: actually, we still haven't decided whether we should be

focusing on spreading the message, or on working on specific projects... or perhaps
some of both...

[10:22] Peer Infinity: ok, bye Solari

[10:23] Lucifer Darrow: I would summarize our message as "transcendence through

technology is possible and desirable!"

[10:23] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: hb Solari :)

[10:23] Dante Quan: I would suggest work.

[10:23] Dante Quan: yes, but why desirable?

[10:23] Areluna Aeon: What is the purpose of the message?

[10:23] Dante Quan: explain that to the masses

[10:23] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: and what do you mean by Transcendence?

[10:23] IntLibber BnT: heya

[10:24] Dante Quan: ambiguity, I hate it.

[10:24] Lucifer Darrow: Greetings, IntLibber

[10:24] Lucifer Darrow: Why is transcendence desirable?

[10:24] Morpheus Maximus: Hi Intlibber

[10:24] Dante Quan: what are the alternitives?

[10:24] Dante Quan: stagnation?

[10:24] Zobeid Zuma: Transcendence doesn't do much for me. I just want to
combat the luddites.

[10:24] IntLibber BnT: well unlimited growth doesnt necessarily require

transcendance

[10:25] Lucifer Darrow: Stagnation, suffering, death are the alternatives

[10:25] Dante Quan: it is of some importance to me to come up with an alternitive

to the Immortailty problem, where would we go?
[10:25] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: well makeing a sweeping generalisation - most
people are scared of new ideas

[10:25] Dante Quan: should we live forever and breed forever...

[10:26] Zobeid Zuma: People didn't used to be. Science, industry and progress
were once seen as good things. . . How did that change?

[10:26] IntLibber BnT: pollutions and labor problems

[10:26] Dante Quan: lack of trust in technology, accidents, technology used by bad
people

[10:26] Rober1236 Jua: THe 20th Century happen I am afraid, that is what made it
change

[10:26] Dante Quan: you get the general idea

[10:26] IntLibber BnT: and of course the nuclear bomb

[10:27] IntLibber BnT: people fear any individual holding astronomical amounts of
power

[10:27] Lucifer Darrow: Literary romanticism has seized the consciousness of the
masses, beginning with Frankenstein (no offence xyryx)

[10:27] Peer Infinity: Steve Cobb made some good points in his email - maybe
transhumanism won't be accepted until it is a part of everyday life, until the
technologies that are now called "transhuman" are available to everyone, and they
start using them, despite their previously held philosophical objections...

[10:27] Zobeid Zuma: By coincidence, I was just looking at this -->

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=538

[10:27] Dante Quan: "That damned Frankenstien Complex!" -Isaac Asmiov

[10:27] IntLibber BnT: when we talk of technological singularities people see

someone else getting a lot more power than they have by being able to buy an
expensive gizmo or operation

[10:27] Peer Infinity: hi Boc :D

[10:28] Lucifer Darrow: The idea that there are things that "man is not meant to
know"

[10:28] Dante Quan: I do beleive Transhumanism should go hand in hand with

Buddist metholodies.

[10:28] Boc Cryotank: Hi. Peer

[10:28] Lucifer Darrow: and that it is diabological to "play God"

[10:28] GNE Greene: What about woman? :)

[10:28] Lucifer Darrow: diabolical even

[10:28] Lucifer Darrow: These are memes that we are going to have to battle for a
long time

[10:28] Areluna Aeon: I don't think spreading a "message" would be that helpful.
Just promoting advances that improve the human condition.

[10:29] IntLibber BnT: orly?

[10:29] Dante Quan: such technology is not positive

[10:29] Dante Quan: you heard the US has ordered Afganistan to start buying
Terminator seeds?

[10:29] IntLibber BnT: if its for poppies it might be

[10:29] IntLibber BnT: lol

[10:29] Dante Quan: for general foodstuff, i'm afraid

[10:29] IntLibber BnT: ya not a good country to push into that

[10:29] Dante Quan: right now, we can use this technology for humanity, or we can
use it agaisnt humanist.

[10:30] Dante Quan: I'd rather like to see the company that creates Terminator
Seeds close it's doors.

[10:30] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: escuse my ignorance but what are Terminator

Seeds?

[10:30] GNE Greene: Cyberdyne Terminator seeds... Sorry. :)

[10:31] IntLibber BnT: well if its truly a competitive disadvantage then another
company should be able to develop an in-the-field treatment that reverses
terminator genes

[10:31] Dante Quan: Terminator seeds can only be planted once, they do not create
offspring

[10:31] GNE Greene: Supplier dependencies...

[10:31] IntLibber BnT: ya

[10:31] Dante Quan: Order 81, I beleive, orders Afganhistan farmers to use
Terminator seeds.

[10:31] IntLibber BnT: have a link?

[10:32] IntLibber BnT: this is a presidential order?

[10:32] IntLibber BnT: or one from Karzai?

[10:32] Rober1236 Jua: surprise tehre

[10:32] Rober1236 Jua: there

[10:32] Dante Quan: I dont know, I'll google it, I found it eariler

[10:32] GNE Greene: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator_seeds

[10:32] IntLibber BnT: is this a congressional bill or a presidential order?

[10:32] Lucifer Darrow: It helps to understand why lightbulbs have an engineered

lifespan

[10:32] Zentinal Ziskey: another company probably couldn't do it without legal

repercussions. it would have to be an open source bio project.

[10:32] Dante Quan: http://technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-

News.asp?NewsNum=1951

[10:33] GNE Greene: It will be interesting to see what the US's allies there have to
say.

[10:33] Dante Quan: disgusting, in my opinion

[10:33] IRC: wrldpc has joined #cosmeng

[10:33] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: Fuck

[10:33] IntLibber BnT: light bulbs have a short lifespan cause the technology is
ancient, and its the nature of the technology. to make a long lived incandescent
bulb, you also have to make it twice as inefficient

[10:34] GNE Greene: 2000hr rather than 100hr lightbulbs could be bought, but
were more expensive.

[10:34] Dante Quan: hmmm

[10:34] Rober1236 Jua: Well one of hte problmes with R and D is when is it just not
making a new commodity addcitive consumption like T-seeds?

[10:34] GNE Greene: 1000*

[10:34] Dante Quan:
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=14270

[10:34] IntLibber BnT: < designed energy efficient lighting for a living

[10:34] Dante Quan: and that, thats more informative

[10:34] Rober1236 Jua: There is a real gap between would could be done to help
and what actually gets marketed

[10:34] Dante Quan: well, should we support terminator seeds. then?

[10:34] IntLibber BnT: compact fluorescent is way better than incandescent

[10:34] Peer Infinity: so, um, what does all this have to do with the topic "what
should we be doing next"?

[10:34] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: those seeds are a crime against humanity

[10:34] GNE Greene: I used to buy 2000hr incandescent bulbs.

[10:35] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: What we should be doin gnext is providing a

better alternative

[10:35] Zobeid Zuma: I'm against anything purposefully designed to be less useful.

[10:35] IntLibber BnT: incandescents are being outlawed anyways

[10:35] Lucifer Darrow: We should oppose govt mandating of terminator seeds

imho

[10:35] Dante Quan: anyway, back on topic? :P (sorry Peer)

[10:35] Rober1236 Jua: Well Lucifier do you buy Apple?

[10:35] GNE Greene: White light LED should allegedly be 3x as eficient as compact
fluorescent.

[10:35] Lucifer Darrow: Let the consumer decide which seed products are the best
value

[10:35] IntLibber BnT: yes GNE

[10:35] IntLibber BnT: LEDs are the next step in efficiency there

[10:35] Zobeid Zuma: I was member of an environmental group here on SL for a

while. . . but I could hardly talk with them without getting into arguments.

[10:35] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: we should provide a better alternative to the

hunchbrained future the powers that be are trying to force on us
[10:35] Rober1236 Jua: consuers will always decide against T-seeds

[10:36] IntLibber BnT: after that we will have electroluminescent lights that are
99.5% efficient

[10:36] Lucifer Darrow: Rober1236 I have a macbook for work but I'm not sure why
that's relevant?

[10:36] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: yes but when T-seeds are all that you are offerd?

[10:36] Rober1236 Jua: Just a poor joke

[10:36] GNE Greene: Non-T seeds will likely become a smugged item... Maybe
hidden inside bibles...

[10:37] IntLibber BnT: ok on this topic, who is 'we' and where do you propose we do
it?

[10:37] IntLibber BnT: in SL, RL ?

[10:37] IntLibber BnT: has anybody heard of the polywell fusion reactor?

[10:37] Dante Quan: not here.

[10:37] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: We are the Cosmic Engineers, and we do it where

we can because we must

[10:37] Zobeid Zuma: Yes, I've been following Polywell closely.

[10:37] IntLibber BnT: it was Bussards evolution of the Farnsworth Fusor

[10:38] IntLibber BnT: he achieved over unity fusion

[10:38] IntLibber BnT: his results are being replicated by his company on a navy
contract

[10:38] Peer Infinity: Niles, please feel free to write up a plan for this project, and
post it to the mailing list or Wiki...

[10:38] Dante Quan: so, shortly, he'll dissapear from the face of the Earth

[10:38] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: I said "We are teh Cosmic Engineers and we do it
where we can because we must"

[10:38] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: damn fecking chat lag

[10:38] Zobeid Zuma: Bussard already died last year, unfortunately. :(

[10:38] IntLibber BnT: ok this is a model of a polywell fusion rocket engine

[10:38] IntLibber BnT: yes his company is carrying on tho

[10:39] Zobeid Zuma: And he did not achieve "over unity" fusion. . .

[10:39] Dante Quan: fuel source?

[10:39] GNE Greene: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polywell

[10:39] IntLibber BnT: yes he did

[10:39] IntLibber BnT: he could only do so for about a millisecond due to the lack of
any major cooling and power production system, his was a test reactor only

[10:39] Zobeid Zuma: No, he did not. They only made small-scale test reactors. The
data suggests it could produce net power if scaled up, but that hasn't been
demonstrated yet.

[10:39] Peer Infinity: anyone, if you have any ideas for a project that you think
would be a good idea for the group to work on, please write up a draft of a plan, and
post it to the mailing list or wiki

[10:39] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: Peer if I could plan my way out of a wet paper
bag...

[10:40] Peer Infinity: even a very rough draft would be a useful start

[10:40] IntLibber BnT: net power is different from over unity

[10:40] Rober1236 Jua: Well

[10:40] Dante Quan: Int, you got a copy of that device somewhere, I'd really love a
copy.

[10:40] IntLibber BnT: sure

[10:40] GNE Greene: I'd be prepared to kick ideas around with someone, if they
like. Maybe ask awkward questions. :)

[10:41] BB Lutwag: with open source proposals, you don't have to do all the work
yourself

[10:41] Zobeid Zuma: Actually, I've never heard the term "over unity" used by
anybody (before today) outside of perpetual-motion machine scams.

[10:41] IntLibber BnT gave you Bussard Polywell Fusion Core.

[10:41] Dante Quan: Thanks :)

[10:41] IntLibber BnT: thats a really crude insult

[10:41] Zobeid Zuma: Over unity is the term they used to describe a working
perpetual motion machine.

[10:41] IntLibber BnT: wrong

[10:41] A group member named Cheshyr Pontchartrain gave you Club-Penumbra-

Ad.

[10:42] IntLibber BnT: it is an engineering term to describe any system where there
is a supercritical stage reached

[10:42] IntLibber BnT: i.e. a fission reactor producing enough neutrons to sustain a
reaction

[10:43] IntLibber BnT: or a fusion reactor that produces more heat/neutrons/other

particles than is put in to initiate the reaction

[10:43] Dixit Writer: oh hello

[10:43] Zobeid Zuma: I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to the Polywell
reactor.

[10:43] IntLibber BnT: so why so hostile?

[10:43] Zobeid Zuma: I don't know, I was wondering exactly that.

[10:44] GNE Greene: I'm really enthusiastic about working fusion.

[10:44] IntLibber BnT: anyways

[10:45] Zobeid Zuma: The evaluation report from WB-7 should be released "real
soon now". But funding will be difficult with the current economic mess.

[10:45] Dryden Twine: the

[10:45] IntLibber BnT: reports from inside EMC2 Inc say that they've got good
results

[10:45] IntLibber BnT: since they are operating on a US Navy contract I dont think
so

[10:45] IntLibber BnT: esp given the huge economic value of working fusion power

[10:45] Zobeid Zuma: Does "good results" mean they expect a solid answer, or
does it mean they expect the answer to be positive?

[10:46] IntLibber BnT: no it means they HAVE good results, and thats all I can say

[10:46] Zobeid Zuma: I've heard that WB-7 ran well and produced lots of useful
data -- but I haven't heard anything about the analysis of it yet.
[10:46] Khannea Suntzu is Online

[10:47] IntLibber BnT: now, the ability of the US to get itself off of dependence on
islamofascist oil will be a big thing to not only putting the US in a progressive
direction

[10:47] IntLibber BnT: but the technology is also useful for rocket propulsion

[10:47] Zobeid Zuma: The big problem is that the Department of Energy is against
it.

[10:47] isenhand Nightfire: hi fellow life forms

[10:47] GNE Greene: Hi isenhand

[10:47] Dixit Writer: hi

[10:47] Zobeid Zuma: And the Navy has to keep things small and quiet to stay
under DoE's radar and avoid a turf battle.

[10:47] Dante Quan: ....why are they agaisnt it?

[10:47] Morpheus Maximus: Hi

[10:47] IntLibber BnT: yes it is, cause it doesnt require billions of dollars to achieve
nothing like the tokamak does

[10:47] IntLibber BnT: the DoEs job isnt to acheive useful fusion

[10:48] IntLibber BnT: its to spend billions on 'energy research'

[10:48] Khannea Suntzu: Hey y'all

[10:48] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: I saw another, even cheaper Fusion process on

Google, what was that?

[10:48] Zobeid Zuma: They're against it because they are committed to tokamaks,
and their experts have already gone on the record saying Polywell can't work.

[10:48] isenhand Nightfire: hi Khannea

[10:48] Dante Quan: IE< finding more oil.

[10:48] Khannea Suntzu rips off some gaffertape and applies it to simulate
modesty

[10:48] Peer Infinity: hi Khannea :D

[10:48] IntLibber BnT: heya Khannie

[10:48] Morpheus Maximus: Hiya Khan

[10:48] Boc Cryotank: Hi, Khannea

[10:48] Dante Quan: Eh oh, Khan

[10:49] Zobeid Zuma: You might have seen Focus Fusion. . .

[10:49] Peer Infinity: perhaps Khannea can help get this meeting back on track...

[10:49] Rober1236 Jua: How about making models of fusion proposals

[10:49] Rober1236 Jua: and giving them away all over SL

[10:49] Khannea Suntzu: People can I invite you to follow me, I wanna show you
something

[10:49] Dante Quan: I dont think this train was ever on rails to start with, Peer/

[10:49] Rober1236 Jua: with text describing the promise of fusion?

[10:49] isenhand Nightfire: lead away

[10:49] Dixit Writer: ok

[10:49] Boc Cryotank: OK.

[10:49] Dante Quan: what is it, Khan?

[10:50] IRC: Dante Quan, you are now leaving the Extropia.

[10:50] isenhand Nightfire: hi boc

[10:50] Boc Cryotank: HI, Isen

[10:50] Dante Quan: bye bye peer!

[10:50] Khannea Suntzu: Does anyone NOT see a board with years on them

[10:51] Lucifer Darrow: We are out of IRC range here

[10:51] Khannea Suntzu shouts: Does anyone NOT see a board with years on them

[10:51] Dante Quan: O see a board but i'm still rezzing

[10:51] isenhand Nightfire: is it

[10:51] Khannea Suntzu: I'll head bnack in a few secopndsd

[10:51] Peer Infinity sees an empty board...

[10:51] Peer Infinity tries playing media...

[10:51] Dixit Writer: i cant see anything in the board

[10:51] Morpheus Maximus: on the side wall

[10:51] Boc Cryotank: This big one?

[10:51] Peer Infinity: now I see the quicktime logo on the board...

[10:51] Zobeid Zuma: I see a blank white sign.

[10:51] Dixit Writer: ah ok

[10:51] Dixit Writer: rezzing

[10:51] GNE Greene: The Plausibility Exchange?

[10:51] Peer Infinity: oh, now I see the numbers...

[10:52] Dante Quan: I can see a few objects on it

[10:52] Khannea Suntzu: Who still doesnt see the plausibility exchange?

[10:52] Khannea Suntzu: Ok

[10:52] Khannea Suntzu: Now look at the small BOXES in the main wide board

[10:52] Zobeid Zuma: I still don't see it. . .

[10:52] Khannea Suntzu: Anyone tell me what they read

[10:52] Dante Quan: AI

[10:52] Dante Quan: Nanotechnology

[10:52] Dante Quan: and biotechnology

[10:52] Khannea Suntzu shouts: Ok who has NOT seen the SMALL BOXES yet?

[10:53] Khannea Suntzu: Everybody try clicking them

[10:53] Rober1236 Jua: AI

[10:53] Zobeid Zuma: Oh, it's over *there*. Why didn't you say so? :P

[10:53] isenhand Nightfire: Khannea, can I make a sugestion?

[10:53] Rober1236 Jua: Biotech, nanotech, AL

[10:53] Khannea Suntzu: Yah sure by all means

[10:53] Peer Infinity got a notecard

[10:53] Khannea Suntzu: Excellent :)

[10:53] Object owned by Khannea Suntzu gave you 'Biomedical Nanoids'

( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Extropia%20Core/148/14/33 ).

[10:53] Arisia Vita: me too

[10:53] isenhand Nightfire: in Englsih we use "," to seperate thousands not "."

[10:53] GNE Greene: Futurology Delphic voting?

[10:53] Object owned by Khannea Suntzu gave you 'PLAUSIBILITY EXCHANGE - First
Human Clone' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Extropia%20Core/150/14/33 ).

[10:53] isenhand Nightfire: The first reliable real biomedical nanobots used in
human bodies by over 100.000 humans.

[10:53] isenhand Nightfire: should be

[10:53] isenhand Nightfire: The first reliable real biomedical nanobots used in
human bodies by over 100, 000 humans.

[10:54] Khannea Suntzu: Yah, this is a wild idea that should serve to foment heated
discussions over the years

[10:54] Khannea Suntzu: Over new dates

[10:54] Khannea Suntzu: Over the definitions of **stepping stone** events

[10:54] Dante Quan: personally, I'd put AI back a decade, but then, thats me

[10:54] Khannea Suntzu: DFante

[10:54] Khannea Suntzu: That is the point

[10:54] Khannea Suntzu: Send me your vote for the date

[10:54] isenhand Nightfire: every decade AI gets put back a decade so its not just
you, Dante

[10:54] Khannea Suntzu: I'll make an average

[10:55] Morpheus Maximus: voting and calculating could also be

automated/programmed

[10:55] Dante Quan: where do we vote, then?

[10:55] Zobeid Zuma: I'm surprised at putting Nanotechnology and AI so far apart.
They should be highly complementary technologies.
[10:55] Khannea Suntzu: Volunteering morpheus?

[10:55] Dante Quan: I dont think you could have one without the other

[10:55] Lucifer Darrow: This looks a bit like the Foresight Exchange except without
the exchange

[10:55] Morpheus Maximus: hehe, I probably can do it, but am very busy also

[10:55] Khannea Suntzu: Like, almost nobody

[10:55] Khannea Suntzu: Zobeid, these are VOTES bu people who havbe taken
place in the concept

[10:55] isenhand Nightfire: what r we voting for?

[10:56] Zobeid Zuma: How is this voting done?

[10:56] Dixit Writer: nanotechnology could be what u need to get AI

[10:56] Khannea Suntzu: Its simple, just send me the edited notecards with
comments and I will throw them all together, edit a littyle and put them back by
friday

[10:56] Dante Quan: if we create AI, it might say 'Hey, guys! Where's the
Nanotech?'

[10:56] isenhand Nightfire: I think u need to go in the right dir to get AI!

[10:56] Dixit Writer: anyway, whatz exaclty AI? :D

[10:56] Khannea Suntzu: If you have aideas for additional blockettes, send
notecards

[10:56] Dante Quan: Dixit, you say that again and I might murder you

[10:56] Khannea Suntzu: If you want to change defenitions, send me notecards

[10:56] Dixit Writer: we think about AI like what?

[10:56] Khannea Suntzu: This is *democratic*

[10:56] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: I though AI was what you needed to get Nanotech

[10:57] Dixit Writer: AI could never exist

[10:57] isenhand Nightfire: AI is what ever u can't get a computer to do

[10:57] Khannea Suntzu: Good planet, thats a valid comment and I would like
people to start argueing over that, and ADD COMMENTS
[10:57] Dante Quan: isenhand, good pointy

[10:57] Zobeid Zuma: That's an odd thing to say, Dixit.

[10:57] Dixit Writer: AI doesnt exist today

[10:57] Khannea Suntzu: Its using the unique characteristics of SL

[10:57] Dante Quan: it does, i'm afraid *rolls eyes*

[10:57] Khannea Suntzu: This isnt immeduately possible on a forum, and foment
interactivity

[10:57] Dixit Writer: mmm

[10:58] Dixit Writer: specify what kind of AI u know?

[10:58] Khannea Suntzu: I am sure if it catches on, this will be streamlined and all
sorts of people will hasten to volunteer their scripting skills.

[10:58] Dante Quan: not the fictional, mass murdering Hollywood AI

[10:58] Dante Quan: thats for sure

[10:58] Khannea Suntzu: I can add at least a dozen small blocks about AI on the
board.

[10:58] GNE Greene: AI could be next week...

[10:58] Peer Infinity: perhaps this should be liked to the Wiki? use wiki pages for
people to submit their votes and comments?

[10:58] Lucifer Darrow: This is a vote, are there plans to make it an exchange?

[10:58] Dante Quan: Artificial Creativity, Automatic Programming...

[10:59] Dixit Writer: so differente

[10:59] Dante Quan: the Wiki does not lend itself to a voting system

[10:59] Dixit Writer: so they are not ... I

[10:59] Khannea Suntzu: Exccvellent Dante!

[10:59] Dante Quan: Just a bottomless pit of knowledge here :P

[10:59] GNE Greene: Can AI exist without robots?

[10:59] Khannea Suntzu: hell I would even add space, antigravity, psionics,

[10:59] Dante Quan: yes.

[10:59] Zobeid Zuma: psionics = never

[10:59] Khannea Suntzu: It should cause people to respond to each other and come
together to argue

[10:59] PlanetNiles Dreamscape chuckles at Psionics

[11:00] Khannea Suntzu: Excellent, zobeid, write a notecard

[11:00] Dante Quan: psionics? ha ,havent heard of that in a long time

[11:00] Dante Quan: mind you, i've seen some strange things...

[11:00] GNE Greene: Psionics could be fun. :)

[11:00] Zobeid Zuma: antigravity = possibly never, certainly not for a long time

[11:00] Khannea Suntzu: I personally would not bet on psionics either, but other
people may disagree

[11:00] Peer Infinity ponders how to calculate the average of "never" and
"tomorrow"...

[11:00] Khannea Suntzu: Thats the point

[11:00] Dante Quan: 50/50 I'd say, Peer

[11:00] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: artificial psionics, like radio-based telepathy yes

[11:00] Khannea Suntzu: Heated discussion, people denouncing each other as

nincanpoops, flaming

[11:01] GNE Greene: I've seen information apparently transfered, and I couldn't
figure out how it happened.

[11:01] isenhand Nightfire: we have anti-gravity machines, they r called shelves

[11:01] Khannea Suntzu: Ok

[11:01] Khannea Suntzu: Great

[11:01] Khannea Suntzu: I will ad a small box with the title "furniture"

[11:01] Dante Quan: violence, beheading...as we're philopshers, we might as well

get it over and done with now.

[11:01] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: honest to goodness Psi powers.. urm I'd like to say
yes but in this company...

[11:01] Morpheus Maximus: maybe also a label "singularity"

[11:01] GNE Greene: How about "New hysics"?

[11:01] GNE Greene: Physics*

[11:01] Dante Quan: I dont discount it complterely, but there are so many fakes out
there it hides the very very small evidence for it/

[11:02] Khannea Suntzu: In 1-2 months i want noobs to stumble over this place,
start clicking the blocks and be suirprised at the spectacular content and expertise
contained in this wall

[11:02] Khannea Suntzu: I will add a *howthefuckdoesthiswork* thing friday

[11:02] Dante Quan: it could work.

[11:02] IntLibber BnT: psi powers are a fringe of the whole crowd claiming a
quantum effect basis of the mind

[11:03] Khannea Suntzu: Who thinks this is monumentously stupid and I should be
slapped around?

[11:03] IntLibber BnT: ok I'd slap you around anyways Khannie

[11:03] Peer Infinity still recommends connecting this to the wiki somehow...

[11:03] Zobeid Zuma: how about "fossil fuels obsolete"? that might be pertinent. . .

[11:03] Dante Quan: we dont know abough about the brain to rule out quantum
mechanics just yet

[11:03] Khannea Suntzu: I agree peer, but I found myself it's not happening

[11:03] Khannea Suntzu: And we want in world content, interactivity, discussion

[11:03] Peer Infinity: what's not happening?

[11:03] Morpheus Maximus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_future_in_forecasts

[11:03] Zobeid Zuma: psi is just a modern synonym for "magic"

[11:03] isenhand Nightfire: Khannea , its better to do than not to do

[11:03] IntLibber BnT: agreed Zobeid

[11:04] Khannea Suntzu: A reason to come here and nag and bitch over those
idiots who added *intelligent crystal healing matrices*

[11:04] Iskrin Nightfire is Offline

[11:04] Iskrin Nightfire is Online

[11:04] Dante Quan shamefully hides the bit he was writing

[11:04] IntLibber BnT: then again watch out for Clarke's definition of magic

[11:04] Zobeid Zuma: Not that I'm giving up my Lucky Astrology Mood Ring, mind
you. . . ;)

[11:04] Boc Cryotank: Time wall.?

[11:04] Boc Cryotank: I like the wall. Is that what we are going to call it?

[11:04] isenhand Nightfire: the wall?

[11:04] Khannea Suntzu: If you have a better name, I am open to suggestions. For
now it is *read the title above*

[11:04] Boc Cryotank: Big Time Wall?

[11:04] Dante Quan: no! the Wall! with a capital

[11:04] Khannea Suntzu: Plausibility Exchange

[11:04] isenhand Nightfire: if we call it "The Wall" we could make a movie about it ;)

[11:05] IntLibber BnT: Transhuman Futures Exchange

[11:05] Dante Quan: Alright, who has Hollywood on the phone, then?

[11:05] Dante Quan: oooh, I like that

[11:05] Khannea Suntzu: Isenhand let me introduce you to the lavatory I bough
earlier this week

[11:05] isenhand Nightfire: oops

[11:05] Lucifer Darrow: I would recommend not calling it an exchange unless it is

an exchange like other prediction markets, otherwise you risk losing a lot of
credibility

[11:05] Khannea Suntzu: Well

[11:06] IntLibber BnT: if you guys would like me to set up a real futures exchange
we can do that

[11:06] Bopete Yossarian is Online

[11:06] Boc Cryotank: How about somthing with the word Vote in it/?

[11:06] Khannea Suntzu: actually that is the embryonic philosophy

[11:06] Dante Quan: Plausiblilty Timeline?

[11:06] GNE Greene: How much do you have to pay to vote? :)

[11:06] Khannea Suntzu: I suggest writing down notecards and sending

suggestions

[11:06] TRONION Sands is Online

[11:06] IntLibber BnT: we'll need to pool some funds for me to pay my developer
but we can do it pretty easily

[11:06] Khannea Suntzu: GNE I actually pay *yiou* in virtual sexual favors

[11:06] Boc Cryotank: Plausability Vote something something something

[11:07] Khannea Suntzu: I knew that would get em silent and pondering

[11:07] IntLibber BnT: lol

[11:07] GNE Greene: I'll take L$ over sexual favours, thanks, more tradable
commodity, maybe. :)

[11:07] isenhand Nightfire: Plausability Voting wall

[11:07] Lucifer Darrow: IntLibber do you have prediction market software or are you
proposing developing it?

[11:07] IntLibber BnT: we can use our stock exchange software

[11:07] Khannea Suntzu: No uintlibber, this proceeds on the level of blackboards

[11:08] IntLibber BnT: just duplicate the system and adapt some of the code

[11:08] Dante Quan: bugger, you know, this has just inspiring me to write a small
essay on the whole thing

[11:08] Khannea Suntzu: However we use a billion dollar server and a 30+
megabyte client side program to simulate some magnets on your fridge

[11:08] Peer Infinity expects that we might end up making a fancy system to
average... a total of about 4 or 5 votes... :P

[11:08] GNE Greene: I'd be interested in seeing of there are interesting info
transfers, which you could call 'psi'. I'll worry about causitive mechanisms later. :)

[11:09] IntLibber BnT: well Peer, I always wanted to produce Robin Hansons risks
futures market that got shot down by congress
[11:09] Boc Cryotank: Just a thought: how about the possibility of represtning each
vote that is cast as a dot of the particular color for that topic. This would alow
people to see how much disagrement there is on each topic. as well as the level of
consensus.

[11:09] GNE Greene: Quantum voting. :)

[11:09] Khannea Suntzu: I am sure IF it catches on it will evolve

[11:09] Khannea Suntzu: Oh this is like a retarded embryo with a soft skull

[11:09] Eschatoon Magic: hi there

[11:09] Peer Infinity once again automatically thinks "MediaWiki extension"...

[11:10] Khannea Suntzu: Heya Boss

[11:10] Boc Cryotank: If each line were colorcoded and specific to a topic such as
scattershot depiction might be easier to understand.

[11:10] Dante Quan: and the colour denoting how much time it took to change? (IE
not changed, black to - changed very quickly, red?)

[11:10] isenhand Nightfire: hi Eschatoon

[11:10] GNE Greene: Hi Eschatoon

[11:10] Morpheus Maximus: Hi Eschatoon

[11:10] IntLibber BnT: Noooobody expects the Eschaton

[11:10] Khannea Suntzu: Suggestions are best delivered in notecard

[11:11] Khannea Suntzu: I have been rather pressed with homework and my
memory stacks are red steaming hot

[11:12] Ordinal Festive Humbug - wear me to eat!: A fairly traditional minty taste.

[11:12] Khannea Suntzu: See? Giulio understands this perfectly with but a glance

[11:13] IRC: Dante Quan, you are now entering the Extropia. Everything you say
will be broadcast to IRC.

[11:13] Dante Quan: O.o

[11:14] IRC: PeerInfinity: there, I can move it now too

[11:14] lyndell Aleixandre: ati card <---

[11:14] IRC: Dante Quan, you are now leaving the Extropia.
[11:14] Eschatoon Magic: yes david has shared it with group

[11:14] IRC: Dante Quan, you are now entering the Extropia. Everything you say
will be broadcast to IRC.

[11:14] lyndell Aleixandre: will crash often

[11:14] IRC: Dante Quan, you are now leaving the Extropia.

[11:15] Eschatoon Magic: new look of isenhand is great

[11:15] Peer Infinity: :D

[11:15] isenhand Nightfire: thx :D

[11:15] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc has joined #cosmeng

[11:15] IRC: PeerInfinity: hi Ben :)

[11:15] Khannea Suntzu: Anyways, I am to the bar getting a triple wodka

[11:15] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: Hi

[11:16] Mordag McCallen is Online

[11:16] Dante Quan: Hello, anyone else in there?

[11:16] Eschatoon Magic: so who has something interesting to discuss

[11:16] Eschatoon Magic: Hi Ben

[11:16] IRC: PeerInfinity: there are 8 people in here

[11:16] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: You do!

[11:16] Dante Quan: should we continue the Terminatoir seeds discussion?

[11:16] Eschatoon Magic: but some people are in both SL and IRC

[11:17] IRC: Dante Quan, you are now entering the Extropia. Everything you say
will be broadcast to IRC.

[11:17] Eschatoon Magic: lets hear about terminator seeds

[11:17] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: Extropia's Essays?

[11:17] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: or did i miss htat?

[11:17] isenhand Nightfire: missed it Ben

[11:17] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: k

[11:17] Eschatoon Magic: definitely you missed that it was 2 weeks ago!

[11:17] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: yes we should, or at least the general solution to

presenting a better future than teh one the powers that be seem to have planned
for us

[11:17] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: What's a Terminator seed then?

[11:17] Peer Infinity: shall we go join Khannea at the bar and pillow area?

[11:17] Dante Quan: a seed you can only use once

[11:17] isenhand Nightfire: PlanetNiles, that's what I'm into

[11:17] isenhand Nightfire: :D

[11:18] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: oh right, the GM type?

[11:18] Dante Quan:

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=14270

[11:18] Dante Quan: yeah, theres a good article on what the US are about to do
with them

[11:19] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: would should compare ideas then isenhand

[11:19] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: ak!

[11:19] IRC: gprisco: david perhaps we should duplicate the gateway

[11:19] Dante Quan: now, you understand? :p

[11:20] isenhand Nightfire: PlanetNiles, do u have anything up in writing?

[11:20] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: indeed

[11:20] IntLibber BnT: Ok guys you were talking about Order 81

[11:20] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: unfortunately no

[11:20] IntLibber BnT: this doesnt apply to afganistan, it applies to Iraq

[11:20] Eschatoon Magic: can eceryone move to the other side please!

[11:20] Dante Quan: yes, my fauly, sorry.

[11:20] Dante Quan: fault*

[11:20] isenhand Nightfire: we have a few articles up on the web, if u want to read
them
[11:20] Khannea Suntzu shouts: Hey come here, wodka is free here

[11:20] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: <Ben moves to the other side>

[11:20] isenhand Nightfire: hi BB

[11:20] IntLibber BnT: given iraq is profiting 80 billion a year on oil, I dont see a
problem with them agreeing to buy american seeds

[11:21] Dante Quan: your paying for it, Khan!

[11:21] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: unfortunately I don't and I seem to be lagging to

death here :(

[11:21] Dante Quan: but it wont just be Iraz

[11:21] Dante Quan: Iraq*

[11:21] IntLibber BnT: for sure once you use a barrel of oil you cant use it again
either

[11:21] IRC: Dante Quan, you are now leaving the Extropia.

[11:21] IntLibber BnT: lol

[11:21] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: links?

[11:21] IRC: Dante Quan, you are now entering the Extropia. Everything you say
will be broadcast to IRC.

[11:21] Dante Quan: wheres the gateay

[11:22] Second Life: Your object 'Object' has been returned to your inventory lost
and found folder by Khannea Suntzu from parcel 'Cosmic Engineers @ Extropia
Core' at Extropia Core 113, 25 due to parcel owner return.

[11:22] Second Life: Your object 'Object' has been returned to your inventory lost
and found folder by Khannea Suntzu from parcel 'Cosmic Engineers @ Extropia
Core' at Extropia Core 112, 25 due to parcel owner return.

[11:22] Second Life: Your object 'Object' has been returned to your inventory lost
and found folder by Khannea Suntzu from parcel 'Cosmic Engineers @ Extropia
Core' at Extropia Core 111, 25 due to parcel owner return.

[11:22] Dante Quan: aww....

[11:22] Second Life: Your object 'Object' has been returned to your inventory lost
and found folder by Khannea Suntzu from parcel 'Cosmic Engineers @ Extropia
Core' at Extropia Core 110, 25 due to parcel owner return.
[11:22] Dante Quan: :P

[11:22] Vaughn Deluca is Online

[11:22] FX1-Red V1.0 (High Prim)_v4 whispers: Coffee Machine ready for use.

[11:22] Eschatoon Magic: ok now everyone is here

[11:22] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: typically for me; I have a goal but no idea how to
even begin, but I'll think about it

[11:23] Eschatoon Magic: hi areluna nice to meet you

[11:23] Dante Quan: Khan, your best wine, please :P

[11:23] Eschatoon Magic: whats this goal thing

[11:23] Areluna Aeon: Hello nice to meet everyone here

[11:23] isenhand Nightfire: we have started working on building a better futuer,

PlanetNiles

[11:23] FX1-Red V1.0 (Low Prim)_v4 whispers: Reading of all configuration

notecards commenced.

[11:23] FX1-Red V1.0 (Low Prim)_v4 whispers: ...Reading configuration for type -
Cappuccino

[11:23] FX1-Red V1.0 (Low Prim)_v4 whispers: ...Reading configuration for type -
Espresso

[11:23] FX1-Red V1.0 (Low Prim)_v4 whispers: ...Reading configuration for type -
Flat White

[11:23] FX1-Red V1.0 (Low Prim)_v4 whispers: ...Reading configuration for type -
Latte

[11:23] FX1-Red V1.0 (Low Prim)_v4 whispers: ...Reading configuration for type -
Macciato

[11:23] FX1-Red V1.0 (Low Prim)_v4 whispers: ...Reading configuration for type -
Mocha

[11:23] FX1-Red V1.0 (Low Prim)_v4 whispers: Reading of all configuration

notecards completed.

[11:23] FX1-Red V1.0 (Low Prim)_v4 whispers: Coffee Machine ready for use.

[11:23] Dante Quan: yes, by arguing with everyone

[11:24] Peer Infinity: oh? what have you done so far, Isenhand?

[11:24] IRC: gprisco: warning everyone: I am doubled - I am here and my toon is in

SL. We share one brain at 50% but do not necessarily express the same opinions

[11:24] isenhand Nightfire: me? Dante ?

[11:24] Dixit Writer: Macchiato, not Macciato :D

[11:24] isenhand Nightfire: u know the idea, Peer?

[11:24] Dante Quan: no, just all of us having a discsussion :P

[11:24] Eschatoon Magic: yes macchiato

[11:24] Dante Quan: brb

[11:24] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: yes but what are we actually doing about it
Isenhand?

[11:24] Eschatoon Magic: italian is a beautifulo langrage, should be respected

[11:24] Eschatoon Magic: pronounce makkiato

[11:25] Dixit Writer: lol thanks :D

[11:25] isenhand Nightfire: we have 2 NPOs now, with another we hope by the end
of the year and 2 more to follow in the next 2 years. THat's the start of the network

[11:25] Eschatoon Magic: NPO = non profit org?

[11:25] isenhand Nightfire: yeap

[11:25] isenhand Nightfire: or "not for profit"

[11:25] isenhand Nightfire: the idea is to remove the profit motive

[11:26] Khannea Suntzu: awGNE I doulw edit the chair but you have a ball around
you

[11:26] Cutter Randt is Offline

[11:26] isenhand Nightfire: here is one of our NPOs : http://denia.si/

[11:26] Peer Infinity is quite embarassed to have forgotten that...

[11:26] GNE Greene: I appear to have IRC hysteresis issues. :)

[11:27] isenhand Nightfire: is that infectous, GNE?

[11:27] GNE Greene: I hope not...

[11:27] IntLibber BnT: why is removing a profit motive bad and how does that make
you more productive?

[11:27] Eschatoon Magic: that like AIDS?

[11:27] Khannea Suntzu: So anyone want a druink?

[11:27] GNE Greene: IRC: GNE Greene, you are now entering the Extropia.
Everything you say will be broadcast to IRC.

[11:26] IRC: GNE Greene, you are now leaving the Extropia.

[11:26] IRC: GNE Greene, you are now entering the Extropia. Everything you say will
be broadcast to IRC.

[11:28] Eschatoon Magic: isenhand: don't you guys have to eat?

[11:28] isenhand Nightfire: if a company is prmary interested in making money its

aim is not to build a better futuer

[11:28] isenhand Nightfire: eat?

[11:28] isenhand Nightfire: :D

[11:28] Peer Infinity: GNE: it looks like you're sitting right at the edge of the
gateway's range...

[11:28] Dixit Writer: launch time yeah

[11:28] IRC: gprisco: yes eat - you need money to eat

[11:28] Areluna Aeon: why not, if a better future will provide it an opportunity to
make more money

[11:28] GNE Greene: Eating is good, as is continuing to pay for broadband...

[11:28] Boc Cryotank: Computers have made a lot of money. Yet they have
improved the future beyond measure.

[11:29] Elsa Dickins is Offline

[11:29] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: why do we need to bother with money?

[11:29] isenhand Nightfire: Areluna , there's alos an idlogical objection as we do not

belive the current money based system is sustainable and that conflicts with our
goal

[11:29] IRC: gprisco: I also think in many cases making $ is compat with improving
things
[11:29] IRC: gprisco: not always, but often

[11:29] isenhand Nightfire: the the Q is do we have the resouces to do what we

want to do

[11:29] isenhand Nightfire: if we remove money we can concentrat on goals

[11:30] Dante Quan: question; would the current econmonic crisis distablize
Moore's Law>

[11:30] Dante Quan: ?*

[11:30] Boc Cryotank: Some tasks are best done for money, and some are best
done not for money. To pretend that one method is better is ilogical. Each is
different and has its important place.

[11:30] Khannea Suntzu: No Dante, because a lot of businesses will need to save
money, and that requires better hardware.

[11:30] IRC: gprisco: agree with boc, 100%

[11:30] Khannea Suntzu: I demand massive lay offs and automation to reduce costs
on commuting

[11:30] isenhand Nightfire: Bos, for us tasks r done to achive a goal

[11:31] Dante Quan: so you think it would actally increase, then, Khan?

[11:31] IRC: gprisco: lets not be religious here - both nonprofit and forprofit can
improve things

[11:31] BB Lutwag: economic cricis may speed up technological development,

since people will be looking for new solutions

[11:31] Dante Quan: anyone disagree?

[11:31] Boc Cryotank: Computers were a goal.

[11:31] isenhand Nightfire: yeap :D

[11:31] Dante Quan: personally, I dont think it's wise to have new mobile phones,
iPods coming out every 6 months

[11:32] Dante Quan: I think we might see a return to items that are suppose to last
a year at least

[11:32] Areluna Aeon: I have no idieological issue with making money. I Am a

captialist.
[11:32] SuspendMe Turbo: the current techniques cant be streched forever, its not
a given that a new technique will take over, Moore's law could be ending in 2015

[11:32] Khannea Suntzu: .me squirms uneasily

[11:32] Dante Quan: I have every issue with making money, I dont see why others
should suffer for my short-term gain

[11:32] Boc Cryotank: Forced obsolesnece is a prosperity we will have to live with I
think.

[11:33] Dante Quan: unless it equals in gain for them in the long -term

[11:33] Areluna Aeon: how do others suffer if I make money?

[11:33] isenhand Nightfire: I also have an objection to capitalism similar to Dante

[11:33] GNE Greene: Broadband to every home...

[11:33] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: they suffer ifyou make your money by forcing ppl to buy
teminator seeds

[11:33] Khannea Suntzu: I'd say Capitalism is tyhe default system when you cannot
organzie markets

[11:34] Delicious Demar is Offline

[11:34] Boc Cryotank: Making money produces prosperity. I like living in a

prosperous world.

[11:34] Dante Quan: now thats something worth working towards

[11:34] Dante Quan: not prosperity for everyone

[11:34] Dante Quan: someone has to suffer

[11:34] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: yes but ultimately our goal is to remove scarcity

[11:34] isenhand Nightfire: Boc, capitalims is not the only way to prosper

[11:34] Khannea Suntzu: People who claim in the future we wont at some stage
have organized markets are missing the point. Take war economies.

[11:34] GNE Greene: badly*

[11:34] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: why, Dante?

[11:34] GNE Greene: Capitalism suffers bandly from a monoculture...

[11:34] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: and make everyone equall rich

[11:34] IRC: gprisco: also, most people have to support families and must make
money with what they do

[11:34] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: *equally

[11:34] Dante Quan: our finical system cannot let everyone be rich.

[11:34] Boc Cryotank: I want everyone on earth to be prosperous. That is the

direction history has been mioving for centureis. The job is far from done. But we
are on our way.

[11:34] isenhand Nightfire: capitalism shifs resouces to a small minority, inceasing

poverty

[11:35] Khannea Suntzu: I am personally sick and tired of the slavish devotion
bordering on the stalinistic of kapitalism, in the broadest defenition.

[11:35] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: fuck broadband

[11:35] Areluna Aeon: no, captialism create resourses

[11:35] IRC: DLucifer: I honestly don't understand objections to free trade

[11:35] Khannea Suntzu: Likewise postulating the opposite of market mechanism

capitalism <==> communism is ludicrous

[11:35] GNE Greene: No broadband, no SL?

[11:35] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: I want food and basic nessecityies to EVERY

human being

[11:35] Khannea Suntzu: These are just two totally arnitrary evolved systems

[11:35] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: *nessecities

[11:35] GNE Greene: Clean water for all is a good start.

[11:36] IRC: gprisco: planetniles - so do I but I have no objections to people making

much more money than average

[11:36] isenhand Nightfire: u can treat the whol system as a resouce alloocation
system and we have better ways of doing that than capitlims

[11:36] Khannea Suntzu: Ya it aint gona happen. we live in a world where a clique
has been working to artificially engineer scarcity wherever they had a chance.

[11:36] Areluna Aeon: capitalism create money, Money is no finite.

[11:36] GNE Greene: Clean water had more effect than medicine late 19thC/early
20thC UK.
[11:36] Khannea Suntzu: I bet there are corporations just waiting to make all water
unpotable so they can sell bottles

[11:36] Dante Quan: as the Terminator problem has shown

[11:36] BB Lutwag: is it still capatialism when everyone becomes slaves to debt

[11:37] Eschatoon Magic: EN PASSANT - COSMIC ENGINEERS GROUP IS NOW OPEN

JOIN IF YOU WISH

[11:37] Dante Quan: I thought that was the general idea, get everyone oweing you
money

[11:37] Areluna Aeon: Nope.

[11:37] GNE Greene: The push to home ownership instead or rent put far more
people in dubt than ever before.

[11:37] Khannea Suntzu: The one single reason capitalism works right now is
because the vast majority of people dont trust one another as far as they can spit at
them

[11:37] isenhand Nightfire: Khannea, lots of oil compnaies have bought up water
reserves in the Us, so rumour control says

[11:37] Dante Quan: I admit there is no or little evil in passive capitalism.

[11:37] isenhand Nightfire: Khannea , the system makes ppl like that

[11:38] Dante Quan: but the aggresivie king (like Microsoft, putting a patent on
Binairy, for instance) is just too much

[11:38] Areluna Aeon: that's just human nature

[11:38] Dante Quan: kind*

[11:38] isenhand Nightfire: Areluna, no its not

[11:38] IRC: gprisco: I wish we could stop this eternal querelle between free
markets and social fairness - I think both can coexist

[11:38] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: yeah the CIA has been predicting (teh paranoid
would say "engineering") Water Wars in teh near future

[11:38] Khannea Suntzu: I don't mind capitalism, but the onus is on the system, or
anyone who perpetuates it, to make bloody damn sure people will have access to
food, water, space and whatever it takes to keep em sane and happy.
[11:38] GNE Greene: If you regularly interact with more than approx. 150 people
you wont know them all.

[11:38] Khannea Suntzu: If capitalism fails in that, capitalism will have to go

[11:38] Boc Cryotank: Capitalism creates computers, the internet, even Second
Life. Comunism has only created words and complaints.

[11:38] Areluna Aeon: that's goverments, not Captialism

[11:39] Khannea Suntzu: Oh there we go again

[11:39] Khannea Suntzu: Likewise postulating the opposite of market mechanism

capitalism <==> communism is ludicrous

[11:39] isenhand Nightfire: so, Boc, is that the only way? Given the resouces whats
to stop ppl making computer etc without capitlims?

[11:39] Khannea Suntzu: These are just two totally arnitrary evolved systems

[11:39] GNE Greene: Socialism seems to work reasonably well in Scandanavia?

[11:39] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: So, short of eliminating capitalsim, what's do be done

about this terminator seeds problem in iraq?

[11:39] Peer Infinity: Communism made Tetris...

[11:39] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: Socialism works well if it makes evferyojne

equally rich rather than equally poor

[11:39] isenhand Nightfire: yes, untill we get a right wing gov that buggers it al up

[11:40] Dante Quan: or, indeed the capitalistic nature of the US miltiry ; make
money by boming the shit out of people (which was how they got out of a similar
econmic mess last time, I think)

[11:40] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: *everyone

[11:40] GNE Greene: Needs to be enough spare resources for innovation.

[11:40] IntLibber BnT: problem is Planet is that socialisms practice focuses on

making everybody equally poor

[11:40] Khannea Suntzu: I'd postulate that the US political system can under no
cuircumstances afford real capitalism

[11:40] Dante Quan: I'd like to test that, Khan

[11:40] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: move in non-t-seeds into Iraq and undercut the T-
seeds?
[11:41] Dante Quan: they would sell better, it's only logical

[11:41] isenhand Nightfire: Khannea, the Us gave up with true capitlism by the
1930s

[11:41] IntLibber BnT: who are you calling progressive?

[11:41] IntLibber BnT: yes isenhand

[11:41] Boc Cryotank: The progressive nations have combined both capitalism with
communism (or soacialism if you prefer) to make a more huiman system. This has
worked reasonably well, but remains a tug of war.

[11:41] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: but the non-t seeds will be illegal

[11:41] IntLibber BnT: the US system is NOT capitalistic

[11:41] Khannea Suntzu: The wqorld economy is worth about 60.000 billion dollar
per annum

[11:41] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: It need not in a post scarcity society IntLibber

[11:41] IntLibber BnT: it is a mercantilist economy

[11:41] GNE Greene: Monocultures in places wich have had a range of varieties is a
really bad idea.

[11:41] Areluna Aeon wonders what this discussion has to do with H+ or

transhumanism

[11:41] IntLibber BnT: nanotechnology will not elminate scarcity

[11:42] GNE Greene: We need diversity, in all sorts of areas.

[11:42] isenhand Nightfire: Areluna , it started of with how to move from A to B :D

[11:42] Dante Quan: small steps, GNE

[11:42] Khannea Suntzu: So how can a worldwide ssytem generate a 500.000

billion dollar market/ I smell all kinds of contrived, artificially created scarcities.

[11:42] IntLibber BnT: well look at SL

[11:42] IntLibber BnT: SL models a nanotech economy

[11:42] Khannea Suntzu: I postulate the system as it works now works to enforce
scarcity on everyone

[11:42] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: well IIRC most of that money doesn't actually
exist
[11:42] isenhand Nightfire: yes Khannea, the current system has to maintain
scarcity to work

[11:42] IntLibber BnT: you can rez copies of things

[11:42] IntLibber BnT: build things easily

[11:42] Boc Cryotank: This digression strated with someone claiming that
capitalism was bad, and it got out of hand from there.

[11:42] GNE Greene: Avatars/people like gods. :)

[11:43] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: no I asked why we'd need money in teh future

[11:43] Dante Quan: what of the abilty of true nanotech to create whatever the
mind desires, as long as their is the approiate feedstock?

[11:43] Khannea Suntzu: Yah, so people are dying, going without decent shelter.
This system has to go, or it has to evolve.

[11:43] isenhand Nightfire: don't think we need money in the futuer

[11:43] GNE Greene: Dead people rarely innovate much.

[11:43] Khannea Suntzu: And the damn *deniers* of change,. of alternatives will
have to come up with a solution.

[11:43] IntLibber BnT: money will always be necessary

[11:43] Dante Quan: money is artifical trust.

[11:43] isenhand Nightfire: I disagree, IntLibber :D

[11:43] Khannea Suntzu: Sure, for buying shoes, Gibson says

[11:44] IntLibber BnT: many needs for money will be eliminated

[11:44] GNE Greene: Money is a useful illusion, evolved from resource barter.

[11:44] IntLibber BnT: only trekkies believe money will be eliminated

[11:44] isenhand Nightfire: and me, IntLibber :D

[11:44] SuspendMe Turbo: there are some basics every human needs, these basics
should be for free?

[11:44] GNE Greene: Where there are limited resources, you can argue there will be
money.
[11:44] Khannea Suntzu: Yah and *everyone* knows that trekkies are gay, so they
cant possibly be right.

[11:44] Boc Cryotank: I agree that nano will greatly change the need for money,
but we use money inside SL. So some things even in here are scarse.

[11:44] Khannea Suntzu: Faggot spandex hippies.

[11:44] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: I'd LIKE money to be eliminated, but no sure that it can
happen, or be sustainable

[11:44] Dante Quan: money is a way of gaing resources, what then when you have
everything you require?

[11:44] GNE Greene: Nonotech enhanced spandex. :)

[11:44] IntLibber BnT: exactly Boc

[11:44] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: if we remove limited resources?

[11:45] Khannea Suntzu stoinks her latex

[11:45] isenhand Nightfire: if we have a post scarcity econ we can elliminate money

[11:45] IntLibber BnT: in SL there is still a scarcity of innovation, of labor, and of

land

[11:45] Khannea Suntzu: Yah thats actually quite right

[11:45] IntLibber BnT: the limits on land supply is dependent up on available capital

[11:45] GNE Greene: Nantech will need energy.

[11:45] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: Doh, now I'M being distracted from the supposed subject
of this discusson - Terminator Seeds!

[11:45] IntLibber BnT: exactly GNE

[11:45] Boc Cryotank: What is scarse will change after nanomanufacturing, but
some things will remain scares and so we will still need money.

[11:46] GNE Greene: Solar energy most obviously, hence access to the sky.

[11:46] SuspendMe Turbo: nut in the future we all have our own spaceship, so no
need for land

[11:46] Dante Quan: fun, isnt it, Ben? :P

[11:46] IRC: gprisco: I still don't know what are terminator seeds
[11:46] Khannea Suntzu: Well what I find hilarious is that Japan is in an uproar now
the *couchcoughcough* communist party is THIRD (Fourth?)

[11:46] GNE Greene: Gravity is a resource?

[11:46] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: Guilio, read that link

[11:46] IntLibber BnT: without a capitalist system, the ability to direct capital and
efficiently utilize it will be limited and thus growth in a noncapitalist nanotech
economy would be greatly limited

[11:46] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc:

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=14270

[11:46] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: I found it shocking

[11:46] Dante Quan: I do beleive i've propergated a meme.

[11:46] Dante Quan: how lovely.

[11:46] IRC: gprisco: ty ben

[11:46] Khannea Suntzu: No, I can also strap a bomb to your neck and threaten you
to blow it up, works a whole lot better

[11:47] Dante Quan: oooh, kinky

[11:47] isenhand Nightfire: IntLibber, not really. Its just a resouce allocation
problem which ppl have done a lot of work in. Its well with in possibility to manage
syste a system with out money

[11:47] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: and worthy of a serious duscussion about what should be
done, rather than waffle about future economies and spaceships

[11:47] Dante Quan: what is money but a form of trust betweeen strangers?

[11:47] IntLibber BnT: isenhand, thats what genocidal thugs have been promising
for over a century

[11:47] Boc Cryotank: We have barter clubs, but they seem clumbsy.

[11:47] isenhand Nightfire: IntLibber, what? where did that come from?

[11:47] IntLibber BnT: ask the germans or russians if they are ready for another go
at it

[11:48] Dante Quan: hmm...i've just come to the realization that we may have to
combat, or promote, Eugenics...not a pleasnt thought

[11:48] IntLibber BnT: you said its possible to centrally manage an economy
[11:48] isenhand Nightfire: no, I never mentioned anything about a central manged
system

[11:48] Khannea Suntzu: I have always been pro population restrictions, and
children with disabilities holding their parents accountable for abuse.

[11:48] IntLibber BnT: " Its well with in possibility to manage syste a system with
out money"

[11:48] Khannea Suntzu: I dont mind money

[11:48] Dante Quan: what do you mean, Khan?

[11:48] isenhand Nightfire: and where do u get centrailsed sconomy from in that?

[11:49] Dante Quan: why would disabled kids be aubsed?

[11:49] Dante Quan: abused*

[11:49] IntLibber BnT: what other means do you propose?

[11:49] IntLibber BnT: you can use communism, or money

[11:49] Khannea Suntzu: But come on, the whole money metaphor has been
stretched forther than [insert perverse metaphor]

[11:49] isenhand Nightfire: distributed, demand based of couse ;)

[11:49] IntLibber BnT: got another idea?

[11:49] SuspendMe Turbo: abused for geting the wrong genes :)

[11:49] Khannea Suntzu: Onr second people, be back in one minute

[11:49] isenhand Nightfire: IntLibber , u r not fermiliar with the idea?

[11:49] IntLibber BnT: look you can pussyfoot around terms, but even "credits" on a
spreadsheet are money

[11:50] IntLibber BnT: I know economics very well

[11:50] Dante Quan: right, everyonr in the IRC chat understand terminator seeds
now?

[11:50] isenhand Nightfire: credits on a spread sheet might but but I'm not talkinag
about using money

[11:50] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: yep

[11:50] Dante Quan: one could say you've been memetically infected, Int.
[11:50] IntLibber BnT: money is whatever you use as a signaling system to
message costs

[11:50] isenhand Nightfire: So do I , IntLibber

[11:50] Samantha Glume is Online

[11:50] Dante Quan: oh good

[11:50] IntLibber BnT: so bits on a computer are money if you are replacing gold
coins with bits

[11:51] isenhand Nightfire: so? as I said I'm not talking about usin money

[11:51] Dante Quan: but I cant get a gold coin

[11:51] IntLibber BnT: what are you going to use?

[11:51] IntLibber BnT: computer systems right?

[11:51] IntLibber BnT: entries on a ledger?

[11:51] isenhand Nightfire: as I said, resouce allocation.

[11:51] IntLibber BnT: handwaving

[11:51] isenhand Nightfire: distributed

[11:51] Dante Quan: I dont think we need false trust,

[11:51] IntLibber BnT: you are avoiding an answer

[11:51] IntLibber BnT: give me details

[11:51] Dante Quan: two bits of metal for one loaf of bread?

[11:51] isenhand Nightfire: hm .. I'll see if I can get a good link

[11:52] IntLibber BnT: how do you plan on signalling prices?

[11:52] BB Lutwag: the world mostly runs on capatalism, so you need to play the
system as it is. If you can produce something and sell it for $0, change the system
by dumping it on the market

[11:52] isenhand Nightfire: no prioces, no money

[11:52] emDash HUD: Summoning your TARDIS...

[11:52] IntLibber BnT: then your system is pure bunk

[11:52] IRC: Dante Quan, you are now leaving the Extropia.
[11:53] Khannea Suntzu: Ok I got a statement for you all

[11:53] PlanetNiles Dreamscape wants to smuggle nonGM seeds into Iraq and
undercut the market

[11:53] Areluna Aeon: right. My Time has value

[11:53] isenhand Nightfire: no, just resocues,and demand and production capacity

[11:53] IRC: Dante Quan, you are now entering the Extropia. Everything you say
will be broadcast to IRC.

[11:53] Dante Quan: go on, Kha

[11:53] IntLibber BnT: handwaving

[11:53] isenhand Nightfire: u aloocate porduiction capacity to demand

[11:53] Areluna Aeon: money is just an abstract form of barter

[11:53] IntLibber BnT: at the point of a gun

[11:53] IntLibber BnT: ??

[11:53] Khannea Suntzu: I postulate the theory that transhumanism will have zero
effect on developments as a movement in the next years because it is impossible to
have any agreement, ever.

[11:53] IntLibber BnT: how do you allocate efficiently?

[11:54] IntLibber BnT: bullets eh?

[11:54] Dante Quan: my, that was opptomostic.

[11:54] isenhand Nightfire: that's part of the diostributed resouce management

part

[11:54] IntLibber BnT: or moral suasion?

[11:54] IntLibber BnT: ha

[11:54] Khannea Suntzu: No it was challenging

[11:54] IntLibber BnT: fascism

[11:54] isenhand Nightfire: no

[11:54] IntLibber BnT: distribution by kinetic energy

[11:54] Dante Quan: but we are, more or less philophers, it's not part of the job to
agree like sheep on everything
[11:54] isenhand Nightfire: do pay attention rather than jumping to conclusions

[11:54] IntLibber BnT: you keep giving such vacuous answers

[11:54] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: I think teh problem is everyone is talking at once

[11:54] Khannea Suntzu cheers at planet

[11:54] Dante Quan: I would ask we consider an activist apporach, thinking about it
now

[11:55] Boc Cryotank: I disagree. Humans civilizations are composed of endlessly

arguing people and yet we achieve lots of things.

[11:55] Khannea Suntzu: And people have stopped listening totally

[11:55] isenhand Nightfire: Its abit of a complex subject for a chat window

[11:55] PlanetNiles Dreamscape: yup

[11:55] Eschatoon Magic: agree with dante - we don't necessarily have to agree on
this

[11:55] IntLibber BnT: well its only complex if you refuse to give answers that are
anything but buzzwords

[11:55] isenhand Nightfire: I think u need to understand how a distributed resouce

allocation system workd

[11:55] IntLibber BnT: I could write a bot that answers better than you

[11:56] isenhand Nightfire: u have resocues, rodcution capaicy and demands.

[11:56] Eschatoon Magic: idea: debate with 4 speakers next week

[11:56] IRC: Ben_Zaiboc: Or to put it another way, PlanetNiles Dreamscape wants

to put Iraqi farmers at risk of having their crops and livelihoods destroyed

[11:56] Eschatoon Magic: 2 for free markets, 2 for central management

[11:56] Dante Quan: laides, gentleman and fluffy bunnies, I must be going, it's
been both a pleasure and a conundrum being here, goodnight

[11:56] Boc Cryotank: I don't think anyone is going to convince anyone of anything
concerning ecomomics. Thus we should move to more productive areas.

[11:56] isenhand Nightfire: u place demands on the system through allocating

production to produce desiered goods
[11:56] Khannea Suntzu: If we have a bewildering orgy of different ideologies, and
if we have a bewildering width and breadth of conviction on what technology can
and cannot do, how the hell are we going to postulate something cohherent, LET
ALONE actually do shit?