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by Shorishlfushmiri, MatbooatChattan,fahore

CotrgresspresiclentMaulanaAbul Kalarn Aza<Igar,'ethe fbllowinginterr,.iewtoioumalist Shorish

Kashmiri for a l;rhore b:rsedllrclu magazine,Chzrffan,in Apr-il 1946.It r.va-sa time r,vhenthe Cabinet

'Varl during the courseof the intewiew,sayingthatreligiousconllict w<ruldtezr apartPakistananrl its easternhalf'woultl cane out its own future. He evensaidthat Pakistan'sincompetentrulers rnight pavethe wayfbr military nrle. Accordingto ShorishKashrniri,Azrd harl eannzrkedthe earlyht>urs of the morning fbr him anclthe inteniew wirscontluctetlor.erit lleri<xl of hvorveeks. 'fhis inteniew hasnot beetrpublishedin anyboclkso far - neither in the Azaclcentenaryr,'olumesnor in any ottrer book cunprising his rwiting or slleeches- exceptlirr Kashmiri'sowrrlxrok Allul Kal;un Azad, r,r.'hic rvaspdnteclonly onceby MatlxroatChattimf;rhore, ;rnorv<lefunct llublishing house.Fonner IT1io1 CabinetMinister Arif Mqhiunrne<lKhan <liscoveretlthe lxxrk:rfter sezu-chingfbr m?uryyears:tnrl trzurslatedthe inten'iew $rr C()VERT

Missionwashoklingitsprot'eerlingsin Delhi anrlSirnla.


Q: The Hindu Muslim disputehasbecomeso acutethat it hasforeclosedanypossitrilityof reconciliation.Don't you think that in this situationthe birth of Pakistanh:rsbecomeinevitable? A: If Pakistanwerethe solutionof Hindu Muslim problem, then I woukl haveextendedmy support

to it. A sectionof Hindu opinion is now h-rrningin its favour.By concedingNWFP, Sind, Balochistanand half of Punjabon one sideand half of Bengalon the other, they think theywill get therestof hxlia - a hugecounttythatwoukl lrc fiee tiom ;uryclaimsof conununalnafure.If weuse theMuslirn l-eaguetetmiuolo6;y,thisnewln<liarvilllrc a Hintlu statelxrth practicallyanrl temper:unentally.This r,villnot hapllel)asa resultof'anyconsciousrlecision,llut will lle a logical consequenceof itssot-i;rlr-ealities.Horvcanyou expecta societythatc<lnsists9$X,<lfHinrlus,rvho har,'elivetlwith their etlrosanrlltrluessince Jrrelristoric firnes,to grorvtlif]'erentlyi) 'lhe factorsthat laitl the tbundationof Islun in In<liansocietyatxl create<l:rpowerfulfbtlowinghavelrccomevictim of the politics of partition.The cormnunalhatredit hasgenerate<lhascompletelyextingqi-shecl:rll lltlssibilities of spreadingantl preac'hingIslam.Tlds conununalpoliticshasfturt the religion [eyolcl measure-Muslims havehrrneclar,raytiorn the Quran. Il theyha<ltzrkel their lessols fiom the Quran

:rrxl the lifb of the Holy Prophetzunlha<[not tbrge<lcomrnurzrlpolitics ip the nameof

Islam'sgowth would not har.ehalted.By the time of the rleclineof the Mughal mle, the Muslims in India werea little or,er22.5millisn, that is aboutbSVoot'the presentnumbers.Sincethen the numberskept increasing.If the Muslirn politicianshad not usedthe gflbnsive lalggagethat

embitteretlcomrnunalrelati<lns,:rndthe other sectionacting:u agen1sof British

rvorkeclto lvirlen the Hintlu-Muslirn lrreach,the numller of Muslims i1 Ilclia would fualegqrur

higher.The politicalclisputeslvecre:rtetlin

iusturmentof Jlolitical p<lrver anrlnot rvhatit is - a


ftlotstellsof othercommutritieslike.lervs,ParsisanrlHin<lusr,vetr:ursfbmrerloulseh,esinto :r

religion then

interests[a<l not

thenarneot'religionhz5,.e llrojecterl Islarl asrrn

valuesystemneapt fi>rthe trirlsfbnnatigp9f

confine<lsystenr,11cltbllowingin the



by Shorishlfushmiri, MatbooatChaffan,fahore

Cotrgress llresiclent MaulanaAllul Kalarn Azadgw'ethe fbllowinginterr"iewtoioumalist Shorish Kashmiri for a f;rhore basedlhrlu magazine,Chzrffan,in Allril 1946.It r.va-sa time r,vhenthe Cabinet Missiouwashoklingitsprot'eerlingsin Delhi anrlSirnla.,Varl marlesornestaftlingprerlictions <luringthe courseof the intewiew,sayingthatreligiousconllict w<ruldtearapartPakistananrl its easternhalf'woultl carveout iB own future. He er,.ensaidthat Pakistan'sincompetentrulers rnight pavethe wayfbr military nrle. Accordingto ShorishKashrniri,Azad harl eann:rrkeclthe earlyhours of the morning fbr him anclthe inteniew witscontluctetlor.'er:r llerio<l of two lveeks. 'fhis inter-riew hasnot beetrpublishedin anyboclkso far - neither in the Azadcentenaryr,'olumesnor in any ottrer book cunprising his rwiting or slleeches- exceptlirr Kashmiri'sorlrr lxrok Allul Kal;un Azad, r,r.'hic rvaspdnteclonly oncelly MatlxroatChattiutLrhore, a norv<lefunct llublishing house.Fonner ITnion CabinetMinister Arif Mqhiumne<lKhan tliscovererlthe lltxrk:rfter se:u-chingfbr m?uryyears:rncl trzurslatedthe inten'iew ffrr C()VERT

Q: The Hindu Muslim disputehasbecomeso acutethat it hasforeclosedanypossibilityof reconciliation.Don't you think that in this sinradonthe birth of Pakistanhzrsbecomeinevitable? A: If Pakistanwerethe solutionof Hindu Muslim problem, then I woukl haveextendedmy support

to it. A sectionof Hindu opinion is now turningin its favour.By concedingNWFP, Sind, Balochistanand half of Punjabon one sideand half of Bengalon the other, they think theywill get therestof Inclia- a hugecounttythatwoukl lrc fiee tiom ;uryclaimsof conununalnature.If we use theMuslirn lrague termiuolo6;y,thisnewln<liarvilllrc a Hinrlu statelloth practicallyan<[ temper:unentally.This r,villuot hapllel)as:rresultof'anyconsciousrlecision,llut r,villlle a logical consequenceof itssot-i:rlrealities.Horvcanyou exl)ecta societythatc<lnsists9$2,of Hinrlus,rvho har,'elivetlwith their etlrosanrlr.trluessince Jrrelristoric firnes,to grorvrlif]'erentlyi) 'lhe factorsthat laitl the tbundationof Islun in In<liansocietyatxl create<l:rpower{ulfotlowinghave}ecome victim

of the politics of partition.The colnlnunal hatredit

ptlssibilities of spreadingantl pre:rchingIslam.This conununalpoliticshasfturt the religion fueyolrl

measure-Muslims havehrrnedar,rayfiorn the Quran. Il theyha<ltzrkentheir less<t1sfiom the Quran

:uxl the lifb of the Holy Prophetzunlha<[not tbrge<lcomrnunzrlpolitics ip the nameof


religion then

Islam'sgowth would not har,'ehalted.By the time of the rleclineof the Mughal mle, the Muslims iu

Irrcliawerea little or,er22.5tnillion, that is about65Voot'the presentnumfuers.Silce then the numberskept increasing.If the Muslim politicianshad not usedthe gflbnsive lalggagethat

emllitteretl comrnunalrelati<lns,and the other sectionacting:u agenf,sof British

workeclto lvirlen the Hintlu-Muslirn lrreach,the numller of Muslims in I1{ia would hale g9rv1

higher.The politicalclisputeslvecre:rtetlin

iusturmentof JloliticalP<xver antl trotrvhatit is - a valuesystemmeantfi>rthe trirnsfirnnationof


ftlotstellsof othercommutritieslike.lervs,ParsisanrlHin<lusr,vetr:ursfbmrerloulseh,esinto :r

interests[a{ ngt

thenarneof'religionhz5,.e llrojecterl Islarl as:rn

confine<lsystenr,11cltbllowingin the


here<litarycomrnunity.'Ihe Indian Muslirnshar,efiozeu lslatn anrl is rnessageand rlir,'iclerl thernselr,esinto many sects.Sornesectswerecleiu'lybom at the instanceof colonial power. Cotrsequently,thesesectslrccameclelrridof all rnovement:rntldynermismand lost taith in Iskunic t'alues.The hallrnarkof Muslim existence*ut Jt i"itrg:uxl now the very term is sfi-angeto thern.



e silysubmit

They prefbr drereligi<lnof llolitics not the religion of the

litical stanrl

The questionis whenand

rvhereIslam provitled tbr divisionot'territoriesto settlepopulationson the basisof belief and

unbeliet.Does this tind

sanctionin the Quran or the tra<litionsqf the Holy Prophet?Vffi€


lf weacceptthi,s

tlirision in principle, how shallwe reconcileit with Islarnasa universalsystem?How shallrveexplain the evergrowingMuslim presencein nou-MuslirnlandsincluclinghxliaP Do they realisethat if Islarn

had allproved this principle then it r,vouklnot har.epennitteclits tirllowersto go to the non-Muslirn

larxlsand manv IslamP

of the supputem of Pzrkisranr,vouklnot haveharl evenentereclthe fblclof


What is the

cherished'goalof a tlevout Muslim!)Sprearlingthe light of Islarnor rlivitling territoriesalongreligious linesto llursue political:unbitionsPThe clernanrlfbr P:rkistanhasnot benefitedMuslims in any

lnanner.How Pakistancanl;enefitIsl:rmisa m<xrtquestion:uxlwill largely<lepenclon the kind of leade it gets.The irnpactof westemthoughtand Jrhikrsophy hasmaclethecrisisrnoreserious.






-Ihis is a surmise ancl Gocl alone knolvs lvhat is in

thewombof tuture.Pakistan,whenit comesinto exi4g1c,,e-wi!!&"S "gl$Str:{f


gag1e. ffi

Theii behaviourmay resultin the total :rlienationof the Pakis&uriyouth,whornaybecomea part of non-religiousmo\,€ments.Tcxlay,in Muslim rninority statesthe Muslim youth al-elnore attachedto religionthanin Muslim rnaioritysftrtes.You will seethatrlesllitethe increasetlnlle of ITlern:r,the religionwill bse i[ssheenin Pakistan.

Q: Bu! manylllema zrer,vith Quai<l-e-Azam[M.A liruratrl.


indir"iduals. ()ur historyisrellletewith therloing;of the Illerna who

rlisgraceto Islamin el'eryageanrlpericxl. 'fhe uphoklersof tmth areexcel)tions.H<llvrnanyof the ITlernafirxl zurhotxruralllemenfionin theMuslirnhistoryof thelast1,1](X)ye:u'si) -f[ere lvas ()ne

k'nam Hanbal, one Ibn'faimiyya. In India we rememberno lJlema exceptShahWaliullatr and his family. The courageof Alf Saniis beyonddoubt, but thosewho filleclthe royal oflice with complaint againsthim andgothim imprisonedwerealsoLllema.lVhere aretheynowPDoesanybodyshow anyrespectto themP

we.fer ttrtAkharet


they inr,'enterla rlewreligion fbr hirn. f)o not rliscuss



Q: Maulana,whatis wrong if Pakistanbecomesa realityPAlter all, "Islarn" is beinguserlto pursue and protect the unity of the commurity.


bearstestimorryto manysuc-henormities.In the battleofJamal [fbught betweenImarn Ali an<l Hadrat Aisha,wiclowof the Holy Prophetl Qurans weredisplayeclon lances.Was th:rtright!' In Kartala the family membersof the Holy Prollhetlverernartyredby thoseMuslims who clainred cornpanionshipof the Proplret.Was that rightl)H"fiei lvasa Muslim generaland he sulljecteclthe holy mosrlueat Makka to llrutal attack.Was thatright?

uslirn historv


If Pakisuurwin right tbr Muslims then I rvouklhavesupp<>rtetlit. But I seeclearlythe dzurgers

inherentin the demand.I do not expect peopleto fbllow me, but i€r

experience.Muslims "diffifs.ffi.Pe<l1llegerrerallysulrrrriteitherttrcclercionort<ltlrelessotrsoftlreir will not he:r anythingagainstPakistanunlesstheyexperienc-eit. T<xlaytheycar call r.vhiteblack,but they,.willnot gir.'eup Pakistan.The only w:ryit canlrc stollpednorvis either fbr the geivenrmentnot togfincede it or fi'rrMr.linnah hirnself- if he agreesto sornener,vproposal. Nor,vasI gatherfiom the attirudeof rny orln colleaguesin the rvorkingcommittee,the clir ision<lf :r-rdtareit


Inrlia appearsto lrc c'ertain.But I mustwarn thatthe evd.cb,.n$e*i€$e$of.i*iti{


. The lriutitio'will be baserlon the religi<1 f

the population anrl not llasedon anynahrralbamierlike rnourtain, clesertor river. A line will lle <[rawn:it is diflicult to savh<>wdurableit would lrc. We must rememberthat an entityconceiveclin haqettwill lastonb aslong asthat hatrerllasts.This

therelationsbehv€cnIndia.andna4istan.tn thissituationinvill not be

possiblefbr Inllia anclPakistanto becornetri*As



live rU."t



ty unlesssome catasffophic'event

tlrcen'fteiwo'eounqieq.tr rvillnotlrc

possiblefbr Pakistanto accornmodate;rll the Muslims of India, a taskbeyondher tenitoriirl c'apability.On the other hancl,it will not be possibletbr the Hirxlus to stayespeciallyin West Pakistan.They will be thronn out or leal'eon their own. This will haveils repercussionsin India and the Indian Muslims will havethreeoptionsbefbrethem:

l. They becomevictimsof loot and lrmtalitiesamdmignrteto Pakiscrn;but how many Muslims can find shelterthereP 2. They becomesubjectto mur<leranclother excesses.A substantialnurnberof Muslims will pass throughthis orulearluntil the bitter rnemoriesof partition are tbrgottenand the generationthat had lived through it cornpletesits naturalterm. 13.A good number of Muslims,hauntedby poverty, lxrliticzrl r,vildernessiurd regionaldepredatirxr rlecirleto renounceIskrm. The prominent Muslims who aresupportersof Muslim l-eaguewill leavefbr Parkistan.The rvealthy Nluslimswill urkeover the industryand businessanrl monolrolisethe economyof Pakistan.But rnore than 30 million Muslimswill be lett behintl in Inrlia. lVhat promisePakist:rnhokls fbr them? 'fhe siruadonthatwill ariseafterthe exllulsionof Hin<lusanrlSikhstiorn Pakistanwill be stillrnore rl:utgerousfbr them.Pakisfirnitselfwill lrc afllicte<lby manyseriousproblems.The greatestclanger


will come trom internationalpowerswho will seekto control the new counffy,arxl with the p:rssage of time this control will becometight India will haveno problem with this outsideinter{erenceasit will sensedangerand hostilitytiom Pakistan. The other important point that hasescapedMfJinnah's attention is Bengal. He <kresnot know that Benpl <lisdainsoutsicleleadenhip and rejectsit sooneror later.During Wortd W;r II, Mr Fazlul Haq rel'olteclagainstJinnahanclwasthrown out of the Muslim lrague. Mr H.S. Suhrawardydoes not hokl Jinnah in high esteem.Wry only ilfuslirn lrague, look at the historyof Congess.The revolt of SullhasChan<lraBoseis known to;rll. Gandhiii wasnot happywith the presiclentshipof Bose arxl turned the tirle againsthim by goingon a fhstunto deathat Rajkot.SubhasBoserose againstGandhiii:urd disassociatedhimselffiom the Congress.The environmentof Benpl is such

that it disfavoursleadershipliom outsideand risesin rer,'oltrvhenit sensesdangerto its rights and


-fhe confi<lenceof E:rstP:rkistanwill not erotle askrngas.IinrurhanclLiaquatAli a1ealive.But after them zurysmallinciclent will createresenonentand disallbction.I tbel that it will lot be possibletbr EastPakistanrto stayr,vidt'WestPakistantor anycorsiderableperiod of time. There is nothing corlmon betweenthe tdi'oregionsexceptthatthey call thernseh.esMuslims. But the factof'lrcing Muslim hasnevercreatetldurablepoliticalunity anywherein the workl. The fuab rvorl<lis lrcfbre us;they subscribettl a cotntnon religioll, a conunon civilisationiurd culture anrl speaka cornrnon language.In facttheyacknorvlerlgeeventeritor*rl uniqr.But thereis rc potitic:rlunity arnongthern.

Ttreir systemsof government:re dillbrent:nd

they:re oftenengagerli1


hostility. ()n the other hanrl,the language,customs;urdwayof litb of EastPakistanare totally

<liflbrentfiorn lVest Pzrkisum.The

contra<lictionswill emergeiur<lwill acquire;useftir,'eoveftones.Thesewill be fuelled by the clash gf interestsof internationalpowers:uxl ntly both wings ryill separate.Al

moment the creativelvarmthof P;rkistrncrxrlsrlorvn,the



The real issueis econonrictler.'eloptnentanclprogress,it certainlyis not

leadershal'etloubts about their orvnabilityanclcompetitir,'espirit.They are so usedto otlicial l)atronage and tar,'oursthat they fbar newtieedom ;urdliberty. 'fh.y arlvocatethe twonation theory

to concealtheir f'earsanrl r.vantto har,'ea Muslim statervheretheylunrcthe

ecoltomywithoutiuryc()mpetitionfiorn cntnlretentrivals.It will lte interestipg16rvatchhow krngthey


religion.Muslim business

monolxrly to control the

that riglrt tiom

its inception,P:rkistanwill facesornelery

I l.



-fhe ilrcompetent lxrlitical leatlershiprvill par,'ethe uay tirr military rlictatorshipasit haslraplgrerl in manyMuslirnc<lturtries.

2. 'fhe

heary-llurrlenof fbrei$l debE