Steven Appleton and Catherine Gudis are some of Next Up's most active participants when it comes to physically being in the LA River. Appleton co-founded LA River Kayak Safari, which has lead over 6000 people on kayaking tours down the river. He's also a public artist, and has made work that engages with the river for more than 15 years—his "50 Clean Bottles of LA River Water" used a bespoke water wheel to pump the river's water into bottles, and clean it to potable levels.   Gudis, while her core role is directing UC Riverside's Public History Program, also co-founded Project 51's 'Play the LA River'—a game that invited Angelenos to explore different areas along the river's entire 51-mile stretch. While nearly 80% of the river is paved, there are stretches of soft-bottom, green wetlands that host their own diverse, unique ecology. Paul Petrunia spoke with Appleton and Gudis for Next Up about reframing Angelenos' expectations of the river by helping them get their feet wet.