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“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Atlantis Island
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Introduction
The location of Atlantis Island in relation with one of the palaeogeographic
image of Pannonian Basin rely on important previous studies:
1. Studies of mythical palaeogeography published in 1991, in Bratislava (The
XIIth International Congress of the Prehistoric and Protohistoric Sciences)
2. Studies of palaeogeography on the Panoniann Basin (2006 – The XVIIIth
Congress of the Carpathian – Balkans Geological Association - Belgrade)
3. Studies of paleoclimat (Oslo, 2008 – The 33rd International Geological
Congress – General contributions to climate change)
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
a. The myths of Atlantis
reflects exclusive
European
palaeogeographical
realities
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
b. These are
focused mainly on
the actual Middle
Danube Depression
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
Late
Quaternary
Pannonian
Basin
Important considerations:
e. The Pannonian
Lake survived
during Quaternary
almost until the
end of the
Pleistocene,
namely until the
end of the
Paleolithic
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
Bratislava, 1991
h. After this
moment, in the
Pannonian
Depression
survived a relict
lake (the Relict
Pannonian
Lake), whose
shore
maintained till
the Great Flood
(thus until about
9.541 + 2008 = Deliblat
11.549 years area
ago) around the
+ 100 m
elevation Fruška Gora
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
i. The Pannonian
Relict Lake was
Fruška Gora characterized by the
presence of two
important islands.
The first
Deliblat corresponded to the
The Relict Pannonian area actual Hill Fruška
Lake Gora, and the
second one was
represented by
Deliblat area.
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
j. The Atlantis
Island (with
Atlantic Sea Poseidon’s
residence) can be
identified with the
actual Deliblat are
At (with a NW – SE
la orientation)
nt
is
Is
la
nd
Atlantic Sea
Pillars of
Heracles
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
k. On this Island (composed
at that time only by
Atlantic Sea Pleistocene deposits,
respectively by loess) was
placed the mountain not very
high and not very great from
At Evenor’s island, mountain
la placed in the actual Dumacia
nt
is summit area (today ~ 250 m).
Is
la
nd
Atlantic Sea
Pillars of
Heracles
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
Important considerations:
l’. The Atlantis “sunk” (from 11,549
years ago ), following a meteorites rain
that triggered the Great Flood (biblical
Flood), was due to the great increase of
the Pannonian Lake level
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
m. This increase
was accompanied
by huge
quantities of
alluvial deposits
(sands and muds)
accumulated
especially in
some areas of the
Relict Pannonian
Lake
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
n. One of the
important
accumulation areas
was represented by
the area of the
Atlantis Island, in
witch the actual
sand dunes
represented a part
of these delluvial
accumulations
(alluvial deposits)
Legend:
1 - Lakes and swamps; 2 - Holocene
sands; 3 - Actual lakes Balaton and
Neusiedl (Fertö); 4 - Land
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
s. A more suitable
placement implies the
area with the actual
topographic name
“Eronja”, placed
between the heights
Čardak and Keja
Lahului
Eronja from
Enorja (by
rhotacism )
and Enorja
(Enoria) from
(Ev) enor =
Evenor
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
t. The toponyms Deliblato (Big Mud) and Major Bara (Big Swamp) from the
same area are in the favour of the proposed placement. Also Belgrade
(White Town) and Biserica Alba (Bela Crkva – White Church) toponyms
suggest the colour of the Olympian Gods (white). This placement is also
sustained by the Coronini toponym (with the hidden name of the Cronos )
Deliblat area
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
u. Pillars of Heracles reflect much subsequent
geographical reality in comparison with the Atlantis Sea
and can be connected to the area of the actual rock
Babacai, nearby Coronini village
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
Babacai stone
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
Turdaş
Tărtăria
Atlantis Sea
Sarmisegetusa Regia
Vinča
v.The reconsideration
Lepenski Vir of the archaeological
discoveries from
neighboring areas
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
w. Sarmisegetusa Regia – the closest sacred
area of antiquity. The Dacian kingdom
(Burebista, Decebal), the closest imperial
power of the antiquity
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
Important considerations:
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
The Evenor’s
Mountain
Eronja
“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression”
Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
ABSTRACT of the paper “Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression” by Mircea Ţicleanu, Paul Constantin, Radu Nicolescu
presented at November 10, 2008 (Session 3) of The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
T he attempts to identify the area that might correspond, undoubtfully, to the This civilization was based on the presence of some important natural resources
mythic land Atlantis, hadn’t succeeded so far, as they weren’t relied on the (forests, salt, gold, silver, copper etc) known even in the present in the Carpathians,
paleogeographic reality, very important for The Old World far history. These were which border the Pannonian Basin in the North, and in the East.
connected to the long maintenance in the present Depression of Middle Danube, thus This view might effectively solve not only the Atlantis location problem, but the
within the Pannonian Basin, of an endoreic region in which a huge lacustrian area connection to real geographic areas of some mythic paleogeographic data for which
survived: The Pannonian Lake. This was definitely isolated from the neighbored no viable solution was found so far, among there could be mentioned Thot Lake and
basins of the Central Paratethys about 7 m.y. ago and it maintained until prehistoric Ha Lake (Egyptian myths), Ginnunga Gap, Audhumbla, Yggdrasil and Asgard
time, as an inner sea characterized mainly by the presence of an archipelagos in its (Scandinavian myths), Cronus Sea (that became “The Dead Sea”) and Okeanos
Western part. Only after The Iron Gates Gorge shaping, probably during some (Greek myths), the Life Land and the Death Waters (Sumerian myths), Havila Lands,
cataclysms which affected the whole Earth, the old lake picture radically changed. In Cus Lands, and Asiria (in the Bible), Alybe (=Alybas) Lands (Homer) and Siriat
the South-Eastern part of the Pannonian Basin, a lake maintained for a long time. It (Egyptians). The mythic land Vanenheim (= the Land of Vans), whose name is kept
was supplied mostly by the 4 main rivers of the Middle Danube Depression. by the actual “Panonia” could be distinguished of all. Such point of view was
The last huge catastrophe that struck this edenic humanity realm, about 11.600 sustained by us even from 1991 [Ţicleanu et al., XIIth International Congress of the
years ago, was due to a meteorites rain that affected Terra, a well described rain from Prehistoric and Protohistoric Sciences, Bratislava].
the biblical text (Apocalypse of John). It was concentrated upon the Western area of The Pannonian Lake (“Atlantis Sea”) and the Atlantis Island disappearance
the Atlantic Ocean where a huge vapors mass appeared which turned towards East, following some successive catastrophes: floods, earthquakes, tsunami could led to the
and triggered The Great Flood (or Biblical Deluge) that could be better understood disappearance of the main material remains of Atlantis civilization described by Plato
only in connection with the Pannonian area paleogeography. The same catastrophe and considered by many Atlantologists as very important criteria in searching the
led to the last paleogeographic picture of the Pannonian Basin, meaning a relict lake Atlantis.
whose shore maintained for a long time at about +100 m height, and existed during The population saved after such events kept in memory both the Flood myths,
the Early Holocene [Ţicleanu et al., 2006 - The XVIIIth Congress of the Carpathian- and the Atlantis disappearance as well. Afterwards, these myths were brought in by
Balkans Geological Association, Belgrade]. the population spread in those areas. In addition, the old inhabitants of the
Picturing a Pannonian Atlantis might easily solve some location problems, Pannnonian space “exported” own toponyms of this primordial area in numerous
difficult to be solved so far, and could very well answer the numerous criteria regions where they settled on, after successive migrations. The relations between the
proposed for a realistic search of this fascinating mythic land. Thus, the West Atlantes and the old Greeks could be easily explained in connection to the Pannonian
Pannonian archipelago allowed the finding of an island to which the Atlants capital area as well, by the present toponyms with Greek mythic resonance from the North-
could be linked. The Pannonian Lake corresponded to the Atlantes navigable sea, West area of the Apuseni (Western) Mountains.
placed “beyond” the “Pillars of Herakles”, that could be found only within the area of There had to be mentioned the “trend” to find a solution for the Atlantis problem
the Iron Gates gorge, as a few antic authors (i. e. Pindar) or actual ones (i. e. according to the information, unjustified absoluted many times, offered by Plato in
Densusianu), and as a lot of myths and toponyms connected to the mythic hero his writings, in the terms in which extremely precious data were comprised in other
Hercule did. The sudden disappearance of the Pannonian Lake might explain the antic authors writings, among which Diodorus Siculus with his “Biblioteca
appearance of some fine, unconsolided sediments (mud) that isolated for a while the Historica”, mainly from the traditions regarding the Amazons.
off-islands of the Pannonian Lake. The moment of the Atlantis “sunken” can be One should not neglect that from the near close of this area there were some
established together with the meteorites rain from about 9.541 B.C. (a much closer world priorities: “The Mesolithic Paradise” (Lepenski Vir – 9.000 BP), the oldest
data to the one mentioned by Plato). The Atlantes civilization (which beyond the world known writing (Vinca, Tartaria – about 7.500 BP), the oldest ceramic tubes
archipelago included as well areas from the Pannonian Lake shores, thus the total area network for drinkable water (inside the area of the old Dacian capital from
was closed to the one estimated by Plato) developed in a mild climate, influenced by Sarmizegetusa Regia, in the South Carpathians - about 7.000 BP). In addition there
the Atlantis position in connection to a huge water mass and the presence of some had to be mentioned the Dacian sanctuary presence from Sarmizegetusa, a proof of a
important hydrothermal resources, known even nowadays inside the Pannonian Basin very developed civilization, placed within the central area already known as “The Old
(nowadays there could be found the largest thermal lake in the world – the Héviz Europe”
Lake, and about 1500 thermal springs as well). Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008
PROGRAM
ULUGERGELI E. Onsekiz Mart University TURKEY
November 10, 2008 KUUMLRCER A. Onsekiz Mart University TURKEY
09:00 Welcome EKINCI Y.L. Onsekiz Mart University TURKEY
FYTIKAS M. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE November 10, 2008
PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE 11:20 - 13:20 Session 2
09:10 The myth of Gaia, from Bronze age to modern scientific era 12:40 Copper and tin-bronze in the Bronze and Iron Ages in the Western
PAVLIDES S. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE Mediterranean: The Iberian Peninsula
09:40 - 11:00 Session 1 ROVIRA S. Museo Arqueologico Nacional SPAIN
09:40 Crete Thera Atlantis: Culture and Writing 13:00 An active Greek Bronze age trading centre in SE Sweden
FACCHETTI G. Universita Grave dell’Insubria ITALY MORNER N.A. Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics SWEDEN
NEGRI M. IULM University, MILAN ITALY LIND H. Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics SWEDEN
NOTTI E. IULM University MILAN ITALY 14:40 - 16:20 Session 3
10:00 The story of Atlantis and Plato’s intentions 14:40 Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to
PARISAKI T. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression
10:20 11500 years ago ? TICLEANU M. Geological Institute of Romania ROMANIA
VIENI R. Independent Researcher ITALY CONSTANTIN P. Independent Researcher ROMANIA
10:40 World maps from the Stone Age? New rock drawings show unbelievable NICOLESCU R. Geological Institute of Romania ROMANIA
knowledge of prehistoric cultures 15:00 Atlantis in South Spain - a realistic hypothesis
GOERLITZ D. ILZ University Bonn GERMANY WICKBOLDT W. Independent Researcher GERMANY
11:20 - 13:20 Session 2 15:20 Atlantis, the last heir of an old legacy
11:20 The strange and undocumented discoveries of Antarctica and South America RODRIGUEZ SANCHEZ J.J. Ayuntamiento de Madrid SPAIN
WEIHAUPT J. University of Colorado UNITED STATES 15:40 The Achaeans’ coming to Lamos’ kingdom in the Atlantic Ocean
PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE
11:40 Atlantis’ position, shape and dimensions 16:00 Flooding of the North Evia Gulf pre-historic lake and a possible
SARANTITIS G. Independent Researcher GREECE meteorite impact in Late Pleistocene Early Holocene
12:00 New palaeobotanical and paleoclimatical data from the fossil Quaternary flora in SAKELLARIOU D. Hellenic Centre of Marine Research GREECE
the caldera walls of the Santorini island 16:50 - 18:30 Session 4:
VELITZELOS E. University of Athens GREECE 16:50 Atlantis: Lost Kingdom of the Andes
12:20 Skepticism on the geomorphological and archaeoseismological evolution of Troy ALLEN J. Independent Researcher UNITED KINGDOM
plain and fault, based on new field data 17:10 Atlantis in Hispaniola: further discussion
PAVLIDES S. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE SPEDICATO E. University of Bergamo ITALY
CHATZIPETROS A. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE 17:30 Examining the relationship between Ogygia island and Atlantis
MICHAILIDOU A. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE GEORGIANNIS V. Technological Education Institute of Piraeus GREECE
SBORAS S. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE 17:50 Atlantis in Middle America
SYRIDES G. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE TEELUCK J. Independent Researcher CANADA
VALKANIOTIS S. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE 18:10 Rethinking Atlantis: Three events that shaped the legend
VOUVALIDIS K. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE KONTARATOS A. Independent Researcher GREECE
ZERVOPOULOU A. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE
TUTKUN S.Z. Onsekiz Mart University TURKEY
The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008